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marsreds · 1 month ago

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I'm somewhat intrigued by the world hater majik/desscaras thing I must see what else you have in your brain

man, babyfish, that's not a weekday question, i have work to do but i'm rotating them in my mind like barbies in a microwave.

anyways! let's talk about why i find the (potential) relationship between Desscaras and the World Hater Majik (one of) the most interesting in the series.

First a disclaimer: We actually still know so. very. little. about WHM and how they work and what they want. It's literally sad how little we know! So a lot of what I talk about will be extrapolation and conjunction. But that's the fun of it, I feel!

So, what do we know?

We know that the World Hater Majik is accepting of their fate:

This guy's fine with the lot assigned to them. If they're not fine, they're not about to show it to anyone, they're not gonna fight it, it's "the sole reason [they] exist."

Which is literally the complete opposite of Desscaras's approach to fate.

We meet Desscaras fighting to acquire Uroro, because at the time that was what was the prophesied requirement to reach where the WHM is:

I can't find the post now, but the Japanese for the prophecy specifies that it'll be a magic man who acquires Uroro and that finesse got lost in translation, but it is a factor to my interpretation: Dess knew from the start that it can't be her in the prophecy and yet! She went for it. Because Desscaras fights fate.

This continues with the way she challenges WHM when they come face to face:

And then with the way she rejects the very premise of the prophecy by tying her life to Ichi's, because as she says herself, it doesn't matter what the prophecy says, throwing all of that on the shoulders of a child is just not right:

So right from the start you have two characters that operate from opposite positions, one passive, the other proactive. Just this on its own this makes their interactions extremely compelling to me. (There's stuff to be said about the ways Ichi and his attitude to it all compliments it all as well but. lol. this is already long.)

Of course, there's also the emotional aspect going on here. For the WHM emotions are a thing that needs to be pulled out of them like teeth, something that they're very aware and careful about; any show of emotion being suppressed and dismissed.

Yet, Descarras terrifies them:

Dess's side of things is equally interesting to me: She's usually so expressive and yet, while going against the WHM she's almost like a (mocking) doll:

(and yes, this really is just an excuse to show off everyone's favorite uber talented badass, are you appreciating her?)

She's locked in, her feelings neatly packed away because there's work to be done. That is, until this point:

This is the most expressive Desscaras acts in her entire confrontation with the WHM, and it's to seek understanding.

That is the crux of it for me: to Desscaras this is an enemy that has done her a great wrong. A wrong they've proceeded to express zero remorse over, going on to completely dismiss her feelings about it even. An enemy who is threatening her new family just as they've destroyed the old one. By all accounts, someone Desscaras has every right to strive to destroy, to try and get in at least a parting shot, she's shown she can get under their skin after all. Instead, she asks "What are you trying to do?!"

Here's the thing: we know that majik trials are not always shows of strength. We've seen many things so far: violence but also makeovers, endurance challenges, and I'm sure we'll see many more to come.

Desscaras is the greatest witch with the most majiks. For that you need brute force, yes, but you also need an unusual amount of empathy and willingness to meet the other where they are. I can't imagine Golconda had a trial where you needed to beat it up.

When Togeice called Desscaras kind, this wasn't just her saying it, we can infer from her status that this is just how Dess approaches life: with consideration and empathy for the other.

Interestingly, the WHM responds to this. They, big, broody nihilist they are, take the time to look back and detail their plans. Hell, they take it further, explaining their reasoning and promising they'll be back soon.

We've got two characters on opposing sides, with clashing worldviews and a whole mess of volatile emotions between them. Yet, the one instance a bridge is attempted, it's responded to in kind.

Finally, there's the aesthetic aspect of it: I've gone on about the WHM being the sacrificial lamb, the princess chained to a rock, and in general a fundamentally passive, resigned figure. (Seriously, go look at how they're posed in almost every panel they're in, they're in an action pose maybe twice).

Desscaras, in contrast, is always in motion, but on a more aesthetic note, Desscaras is a knight. She has a sword for a magic wand, when she meets royalty, she does a little bow with her hand to her heart, her volume cover has her in a duelist's position, etc. you get my point.

A princess chained to their fate, and a knight fighting it, on opposing sides of a conflict, yet both have demonstrated willingness to meet across the abyss. Kind of has a romantic air to it, don't you think?

so, yeah, there you have it! there's probably other stuff as well but fundamentally it comes down to the fact that i want to put them in a box together, seal it, and then punt it down a flight of stairs, just to see what happens.

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bonefall · 6 months ago

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It's a shame Tree is so poorly used because playing Clangen made me think about how much drama a mediator could cause even if they have good intentions. Like trying to get two cats to get along but only making their relationship worse or committing a big political faux pass with a rival clan when they need their support at the brink of war. Conflict through diplomacy can be fun if you commit to building tension and consequences with it.

Do you think mediators will eventually become a thing in all the BB!Clans?

Mediators are a great game mechanic in Clangen. Absolutely fantastic design choice, giving you better influence over the relationships between cats in a game all about managing relationships between cats. The people who came up with that one should be kissed on the mouths.

I'm not sure how much I'd get out of them as a storytelling element for BB, though.

It's not a complete no-- Clangen's mediators are pretty close to that "Therapy" rework I floated. Making their role more about interpersonal conflict, giving advice, helping individual cats work through their issues.

At the same time though, I find that the sense of community is so much stronger when that isn't someone's "job," but just something someone in the Clan can relate to.

Jaypaw could have had some sessions with a hypothetical therapist to confront his internalized ableism-- but isn't it more interesting for him to realize that by calling himself worthless for his disability, he's directly insulting his mentor Longtail too? And that Longtail will invoke his Battle Cat right to FIGHT for his honor?

They could consult elders, find a surprising connection in a Clanmate they'd never paid attention to, reignite an old friendship they thought they lost forever. There already feels like so many possibilities, and all of them feel more intriguing than "goes to the designated therapy guy."

If there's anyone like a political diplomat in BB though, it feels like it should evolve from Merchants. Ive got some stuff about trading and bartering in the works, and I think there's more space for interesting ideas there.

#I guess at its core it's like....#One of the strengths of the Small Population limitation (arguably its BEST strength)#Is that it discourages strict 'specialization'#Having characters with diverse hobbies and strengths is a great thing!#There's more roles than canon with the new Patrol Heads plus the Educator + Chaperone too #But all of them end up with other strengths too #That's *good.*#Making a 'role' for things often ends up discouraging you from just considering multiple options #Like... a dedicated kitsitter. It's better and more interesting for the parents to ask their friends or allies to do that #Because right there you have to ask who their friends and family *are.* Who they trust with this.#If Daisy just automatically watches all kits then you've decided the question is answered.#That's not always bad; Re: Patrol Heads #But in my head they pose even more interesting questions that make up for the one they answer #What makes this one a GOOD Head of Hunting? Why did their leader choose them for this role? Who are their rivals? Who else could qualify?

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fumifooms · 1 year ago

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"Marchil? I guess I can see it on Chilchuck’s end, but what about Marcille’s? What makes you think she could develop feelings for him?" I’m glad you asked!

The first thing to note is that she does think highly of him

In the page on the right, literally defending his virtues and literally comparing him to Dalclan. And oh…

She does love a brooding mysterious guy who closes himself to love. But surely, Chilchuck isn’t her type at all, right? He’s not princely or knightly at all. In apperances certainly not, both looks wise and demeanor wise, but then that’s why she seeks to know him on a deeper level, to not only look shallowly.

And hmm. Chilchuck really is quite selfless isn’t he? Always looking out for others, and saving specifically her often, always making sure himself and, staying in or even running towards danger for her sometimes. Modesty is often considered heroic…

And can we talk about that drowning one… You can definitely frame the special attention as him knowing she tends to hesitate or be clumsy, and then his insistance on pulling her out of danger that she’s the healer aka the most important to keep alive, but. From the one who says that he just keeps his ass out of fights and won’t help this is a lot of risk to take, and he does die trying to pull her to safety in the dungeon rabbits chapter. And the drowning bit??? That’s when the dungeon collapses. The only reason they DON’T die of drowning here is that the water then gives way to outside. There was NO hope of pulling her to safety here and resurrections would likely not work either, he truly preferred to die with her than try to survive himself.

Sit your ass back DOWN you are in no state, self-sacrifical hero much damn

And Marcille definitely noticed this imo, after all she loves learning all she can about him, remembering things like how he hates waiting on people too. She pays attention to him and what he does and what he says. This to say that it’s notable, whatever reason for it you may think (though we know by this point at least she was already aware he was an adult though it wasn’t internalized), out of everyone it’s Chilchuck’s bed that she wants to sleep in during the Golden Kingdom stay. He’s safe and comforting to her: dependable, the defining trait in her view of him as is shown by the relationship chart in the Adventurer’s Bible.

^ Lending handkerchiefs is a romance trope btw and handkerchiefs have irl history of being used for courting. Especially in old English literature and plays like Shakespeare’s Othello, and personally I do see a lot of Shakespeare in Dalclan (nobility political drama with some romance). There’s how his cowl is a dearly beloved souvenir from his family too, there’s a lot of aesthetic tropes you can apply to him.

All this to say you can 100% romanticize Chilchuck into a princely noble guy if you try and that’s exactly what Marcille does with the wife roleplay. She doesn’t need much in the first place, she latches onto crumbs and makes aesthetic narratives out of details, give her an inch she’ll take a mile.

But what’s interesting about the shift throughout the arc of her and his relationship is that she starts out idealizing him into a little angel of a kid (shapeshifter), and she ends it idealizing him as a virtuous husband and family man instead.

And what’s doubly interesting is that in the former, she’s actively warping who he is personality and demeanor wise to fit the aesthetic, he doesn’t have that bitter pride of not asking for help and the edges have been smoothened. But what she does during the wife roleplay is something else, she acknowledges the flaws and just… Accepts them, rolls with them. She’s aware of his flaws and implements them into the narrative, but the reason why his wife left doesn’t capitalize on them even, rather Chil is chilblivious and his wife loves him very much still, she’s just testing him after having had a night of feeling out of place at his side.

And this is what separates the idealization vs romanticization, she’s not twisting him into someone else she’s just uplifting what he is and focusing on the good sides.

Marcille: "he has a shitty personality sometimes but if he was my husband I’d still cherish him" "If I were your wife I’d be overjoyed to go out with you and would get myself prettied up while you complain about me taking a long time, your friends would tell me that I’m nice and that’d make me happy, but I’d also be sad because you wouldn’t tell me that you love me enough"

He’s angry and his wife left him, he’s *flawed*, but he’s still worth hyping up, still worth having his own romance story, still has a shot of winning back his beloved. She sees him for what he is, human and real and not a carefully scripted character that fits an aesthetic, and she thinks it’s still worthy of love and admiration and fighting for

And what’s funny too is that you might expect her to cool down on him once she learns more about him but actually she only gets increasingly into his business. You tell her your age and next thing you know you promise to introduce her to your family. Give her an inch she takes a mile. And too the thing is, Senshi is equally mysterious but she doesn’t pester him like at all, asks him ONCE about his succubus and he doesn’t even answer and that’s like… It. With Chilchuck it starts off innocently enough with her wanting to know his age, hometown, the stuff she mentions having asked pre-canon. But it just keeps and keeps going and escalating. Think she’ll be satisfied now knowing you have a wife and kids, maybe she’s disillusioned now? Wrong! She wants to know their names and ages and occupations and hey how did you propose to your wife? Do you think she’ll stop after meeting them? What’s next? What will she want to know next????

She’s… Like it’s not a reach that Marcille is all over him. Like it doesn’t mean it’s romantic but she just is. She is not normal about him idk. Can you not ask him about what tongue technique he used when first kissing his wife, give the man breathing room

Marcille could literally go "if I was Chilchuck’s wife" having deeply pondered and thought out the hypothetical and people would still ask where anyone sees any romantic potential between them. Oh wait

There’s a platonic explanation for everything (almost?) in Dungeon Meshi don’t say I’m saying otherwise, but it’s definitely not like there’s nothing here to read into lol

Going off a bit more under read bc it’s my fave topic

Marcille has a whole theme with the charming prince trope with her idealization and storybook motif and Chil is kinda the "Well someone perfect like that isn’t very realistic and romance is usually more complex and that’s ok and good and flawed people can still be ✨virtuous✨" catalyst

Do you see do you see she starts canon thinking the most romantic thing is a prince charming but her arc in the end has her romanticizing an average, flawed, real and realistic family man, who’s on the poorer side and is on the verge of divorce. And that’s what he needed, too, seeing the positive of himself and the situation instead of focusing on the negative is explicitly what inspires him to hope that he might be able to reconcile with his wife, gives him the courage and self-esteem to shoot his shot.

He IS a prince figure instead that now it’s not about idealizing the grand and overt it’s about romanticizing the small things in real life!! About finding joy and beauty in things that seem normal or mundane and uplifting them to make the world feel kinder!!!!

He’s the devoted virtuous man that she wantsss not the storybook prince that’s unrealistic and could crumble like a script at any time. He’s the perfect example of a flawed realistic but virtuous & devoted & loving man. Far from a prince charming, but not fully detached from it either. Something worth fighting for despite the flawed cracks. Like literally, flawed romance being worth fighting for is literally the finale of Chilchuck and Marcille’s arc on the matter, where their separate arcs and issues intersect at the most crucial moment.

Marcille is important to Chil’s arc not only because of her optimism, but also because of her interest and knowledge in romance & matters of the heart, and that’s what he needs to both open his heart up to hope and to try to reconcile with his wife, like idk sounds gay

Their arc together is literally learning to 1) see each other for how they are and not undermining their qualities capacities etc etc while still not leaving flaws unchecked either and 2) opening up to people. Marcille LITERALLY makes Chil open his heart up to hope like idk man. What do you want from me. He’s literally the guy helping her through deconstructing novels and fantasy and rose tinted glasses and like. Deconstructing the prince charming figure into something more real but still romantically beautiful like KUI KUI STOOOOP STOP I’M ALREADY HOOKED I’M ALREADY-

Ok fine that’s me reading into the tropes too much forgive me for being storybook brained but like. Speaking his heart out to a lone woman on a balcony, Romeo and Juliette shit, asking if she, too, doesn’t want to meet his family, madly blushing. And like she’s learned with Chilchuck it’s all in the little things, all the implications he cannot speak aloud. She does reciprocate, does blush madly back, and the first thing she does is shower him in flowers and jewelry and what in her heart is coded as romantic gifts

A lady, stashed away in a high tower by her lonesome, waiting for someone to call out to her from below… Romeo courting type shit with an offer, a heartfelt spiel, implicit confession from underneath her balcony. Offering him flowers because he succeeded in calling out to her heart…….. And they have to climb to her too…. Crazy

Doesn’t it sound like a proposal. One that’s both so storybook-like and not, contrastedly real and grounded, all about the implications rather than in your face grand gestures, "Don’t you want to meet my family?". They literally have an arc about the topic of romance and this is the climax/pinnacle of it like god?? This is @ the woman who said "Chilchuck is a shy/bashful man so I know he wouldn’t tell me he loves me, but…" btw

To quote a friend, truly the shiny secret unlockable dating sim capture target : THE DUNGEON LORD BIT WAS SO FUNNY BECAUSE HE KNEW SHE'D TAKE IT HOOK LINE AND SINKER HES THE ONE WHO GOT HER TO TURN AROUND COMPLETELY SHES LIKE. WIDE EYED FLAG RAISED???? FLAG RAISED WITH CHILCHUCK 👀👀👀‼️👀👀‼️👀

And the way that this is the culmination of their arc together… Like people are not ready for the ‘Chil calling out to dunlord Marcille on the balcony has Romeo and Juliette romance novels imagery’ take. Or the ‘their arc is about growing to see beauty even in the non-idealized, in the flawed and in the real’ take which makes it so so perfect if she were to lower her ideal from a charming elven prince to a virtuous halfling man (which she does end up romanticizing)

So there, you got to witness in real time what happens when I think about marchil for longer than 2 minutes, there are so many layers it’s a deranged rabbithole. I saw the necronomicon of subtext and it’s driving me to madness with forbidden knowledge that no one else sees

……. Like what if I told you she implicitly picked Chilchuck over a "unrealistic prince charming who’s actually disingenuous" much earlier in the story already. If she was given the choice to think through going with a guy that seems perfect and chivalrous like her succubus she’d pick Chilchuck over the other actually. If I sound insane rn tune in for my full analysis on them coming this month hopefully thank youu. Interwoven arcs of fantasy vs reality and idealization vs pessimism I love youuu

So now you know the general thesis of my planned analysis about the importance of the prince charming figure in Marcille and Chilchuck’s arc, where she romanticizes things to a sometimes worrying degree or idealize people into something easy and digestible and poetic (like Chil being a kid, and then him being a virtuous ✨✨✨husband), and how she needs to value aesthetics less and actual acts and facts more, be more grounded (like seeing people for what they are flaws and all, and accepting that people need money and not pulling through on principles of honor or unity shouldn’t get Namari shamed) and a part of that is accepting that Chilchuck is BOTH flawed and virtuous, a loving husband that still has shitty moods and fumbled his marriage so bad etc etc. So it’s like, her image of perfect prince charming that will whisk you away on an ethereal romance -> realistic flawed middle aged dad with personality issues and a failing marriage but he still is worthy of love and having his cute grand romance story and his happy ending. Ik I keep repeating the same point through this but I need it to be burned into everyone’s brains it has its grip on me I can’t do this. They are so special……

#Someone did ask (on discord) btw i’m not just being a smartass though I do love being that too #This is stuff I cover in my upcoming marcille & chil arc analysis except here I can go full romo and don’t keep the strictly platonic angle #It’s at like 15k words rn I think. The 30 pics limit is killing me which is why I started asking my friend to do collages of panels for me #Sob #I keep alternating between it and the Falin analysis save me. Should be dropping soon idk i might test out having a beta reader for that on #Marchil foreplay is 2 years of being coworkers and slowly worming personal questions out of him until he blinks and she has #a key to his house #Dungeon meshi #marchil #marcille donato #chilchuck tims #like they’re so so funny look at this shit. Nonconsensual romanticizing of you as a person. Obsessive interest in your personal life #She’s latched so hard onto the “mystery” of him they’re deranged #MAYBE ITS ALL COMPROMISES MAYBE ITS ALL SWEET INBETWEENS <3 #maybe we'll take our vision of what we thought we could be and make something new together. something for just us #Fumi rambles #Maaan Marcille’s ‘idealizing him into liking him even for all his flaws bc his personality is often kinda shitty’ arc’#and Chilchuck’s ‘prejudice against elves and mages and optimism into respect and trust’ arc are everything to me #Meta #Spoilers #Dungeon meshi manga spoilers #Tagged this so late oops #It’s so funny. She’s canonically wondered how Chil would be like as a lover #No no but like do u see. Fantasy is a key part of her chrcter and arc and he’s the foil to that he’s the thing that comes challenge it

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bogos-bint3d · 4 months ago

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random thought bc i was making alphyne sims LOL, do you think undyne would ever want to have children? how do you think she’d be as a parent?

While I personally don't quite have a "definite yes" or "definite no" answer for this I personally think that, yeah, possibly! I think it's a question with a lot of layers to it, "is it something the character would want?" "Is it something the character should do?" "How much thought would the character put into it all beforehand?" "How long would the character wait before making that choice?" And first of all I think I should talk about fandom culture's view on kids in general. Why? Because I'm obsessed with validating my opinions like this

It's been said many times by many people now how there are a lot of times where fans end up writing completely out of character for the purpose of placing characters into positions of stereotypical familial structures- ESPECIALLY forcing women into the roles of motherhood where it doesnt fit or make sense for them to the point where I don't think I can really add anything substantial or important to the topic. The pros have very much said what needs to be said.

HOWEVER. I ALSO LIKE TO HAVE FUN WITH FUCKING CHARACTERS. I LIKE TO EXPLORE DIFFERENT TOPICS AND SITUATIONS WITH THEM. I WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SHAMELESSLY ENJOY THEIR RIGHT TO INTERPRET CHARACTERS WHERE THEY THINK NESCECARY. WHERE THEY THINK FUCKING FUN!!!

So with that said, while demeaning female characters to singular sad and one dimensionsional traits of "Mother" is very clearly to me Not A Good Thing, people should stop acting like it's a fucking sin to imagine the possibility of a character having a child while still retaining all their accurate attributes, because it is a very possible thing that can be and IS done!!!!!

What are my thoughts on Undyne with all this?

Hehhaahehehaa....... strap in.

Where do I BEGIN. How about the inspirations behind the character of undyne herself.

Ok so see this wonderful lass here. That's a sculpture by Chauncey Ives of the mythical water spirit, Undine. Thinking about it, you all probably know this anyway because I do fairly often reblog Undine themed stuff too. Because I'm just like this. But how about the interesting stuff?

The original myth, created by Paracelsus, an alchemist and philosopher born in the 1400s, I believe comes from his work "A Book on Nymphs, Sylphs, Pygmies, and Salamanders, And Kindered Spirits". I think that's what it was called. I'm too tired to talk fully about it specifically and we need to get to the point so have a video of some guy reading it here

youtube

Yay :]

It's pretty much what it says. Paracelsus essentially believed that elemental beings (whom he had adapted and reimagined from ancient or traditional at the time sources) were simply part of the strangeness of God's natural creation and should be studied, as part of appreciation of the Bible etc. And we know ALL ABOUTTTTT utdr and its biblical links/imagery. But back to undine :]

Paracelsus named his takes on the classic concept of elementals: gnomes for earth (YES HE INVENTED THE WORD GNOME!!!!!), sylphs for air (yeah he also invented the word sylph), salamanders for fire (he didn't invent that :[), and of COURSE! UNDINES FOR WATER! He believed undines to be fairly similar to humans, a significant difference being the lack of a soul. Which surely means nothing when talking about Souls Are Important the Video Game. And anyways according to him they were apparently fairly capable of getting a soul through love. Wikipedia also says that Paracelsus says that a child from this love will too have a soul which is nice

Blablabla Wikipedia says undines are like fucking desperate to get a husband or whatever but dudeeeee she can do whatever she fucking wantssssss. I think she can and should be enjoying her life with alphys rather than it being a thing just for a living soul or whatever. They're just happy, no mythology attached

Onto the most iconic interpretation of the myth, 1811s Undine by Friedrich De La Motte Fouque. When you think of the tale of Undine it's almost always that it's this specific story you pull from. Apart from another one I'll briefly touch on later (please hope it's brief). In it, Undine is a woman adopted by a fisherman, who was taken in by the fisherman after his own child died. Hmmmmm wow hmm sort of like how asgore took in undyne after his children died HM BACK ON TOPIC. Personality-wise, Undine is described by Wikipedia (because I don't have the book) as "erratic", and "capricious", which Google dictionary describes as "given to sudden and unaccountable changes of mood or behaviour", which again sounds quite similar to the Undyne we all know and love.

It mentions that when married to Huldbrand (the main guy in the book he's not important tho) she is "kind and gentle" and yeah imo the writing with this IS kinda shit HOWEVER I think if were simply using this as inspiration for undyne I can definitely imagine her *eventually* becoming a calmer and more thoughtful person with A: the presence of someone like alphys to mutually love and understand her for her and B: the absence of having to worry about a war to fight and always sort of being on edge and just being. Like that. And again this would all be a *progressive experience*, rather than in the book where undine literally switches up over night. I do like to consider character and stuff

There's this line from the Wikipedia summary which jumpscared me

I 0% believe this has any significance to deltarune whatsoever however it was so funny out of context I had to add it

Another completely unrelated thing here but there's a fucking guy called "Kuhleborn" and I just. Can homestuck leave me alone. FOR FIVE MINUTES.

Sorry back to cherry picking the story to fit undyne.

Ok so truthfully I don't find anything else from that specific story that I find particularly helpful to undyne, the rest of it's kinda just useless to my point. Re-establishing the fact here that I skipped over a most of the actual significant parts of the story because I specificly want to talk about how I see it parallel to undyne. But that's it really. I just especially wanted to mention this adaptation of the story as it is pretty much the most iconic interpretation of the myth.

That is, interpretations that specifically refer to its source by name. Because by far the most well known media to draw influence from the myth of undine is the iconic Hans Christian Andersen fairytale, "The Little Mermaid". I don't have much to say on how the little mermaid does take much inspiration from undine, other than the way andersen himself interpreted the story. Simply, the fact that Hans Christian Andersen, a man who based this story off of his own feelings at the inability for another man to reciprocate feelings of romance for him, and resonated with the story of undine so much that it was a source of inspiration for the little mermaid itself is so crazy to me. Like. Here is a queer man who read the tale of Undine and understood it so much he wrote his own story inspired by it and made it tie in with his own experiences of homosexuality! Like that's so crazy to me! Because it just makes the undertale character of undyne being sapphic so much better to me! It took the sad story of gay tragedy and took it and made it a story of gay joy!!!!!!! We are all so happys forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok ummmm. I got carried away because we are steering very far away from what this post was originally about. Umm. Point is. Original story was of queer sadness but undertale is now of queer joy + the story of queer joy being based on story where being with this person who you really love and being truly and properly bonded in an undeniable and magical way is enough to give you a soul that will live forever. I think that's somewhere near the point I'm trying to make but at the same time it's not quite the point I was trying to make. And this is absolutely just one interpretation of one relationship and this is by no means in any way supposed to be the end all be all of what ANY relationship should be. I really don't think this is what the definition of love is. However for these characters I feel it can be a huge aspect of it for them

NOW FINALLY MOVING ON TO THE ACTUAL CHARACTER FROM UNDERTALE THANK FUCKING GOODNESS!!!!!

Oh undyne. With some of the implications in game that she lost her family, I very much imagine her being cautious with this sort of situation. Would she be able to handle is for example? Would she know what to do. Given its something she might not even have real first hand experience of, is it something she would even want to risk forcing upon another person? I think she struggles so much with responsibility as it is. She wants nothing more than to protect people and cheesus if she had a kid of her own you know she would be doing every single thing in her power to make sure that kid never has to face what she did. Undyne says at one point in game (if you kill her in neutral i believe) she never told alphys the way she felt because if/when she died in battle, she wouldn't want alphys to deal with that. And again, she really would not want to have a kid if she worries that one day that kid would have to worry about someone they truly care about not being with them anymore

So *would* she want them? I don't really think it would be an overwhelming innate desire or anything like that, but really not against it. Sged need a lot of time beforehand first. Some time to live her life to the fullest, time to make sure it's something she can handle without guilt, time to make sure it's something that does bring her joy. And then yeah, 6 or 7 years minimum I can see it happening. And I think it would be nice

"Now let's talk about susie, can we talk about susie? Please stun (and other readers) I've been dying to talk with you about susie all post, okay?" /ref

I don't really have anything to add I just think alphyne should adopt susie. In every timeline. Undertale deltarune I just think ok. Because she doesn't have a good home life to the point where she's like just Not Safe and hm young couple with no children in her area? Undyne would want to help her soooo bad because she understands just what it feels like to be young and alone not really cared for and she would NEED to fix it. That's defo how it is for undertale at LEAST. Idk entirely with dr if it'd be exactly like that cause we don't know what undynes got going down in dr yet.. but even so that's nothing to stop them

Anways yeah I think you mightve been waiting just a wee bit long for the answer to this ask I uhh.....m.....mmmm. yeah man I... yeah. I really do genuinely hope you enjoyed his tho cause uts currently quarter to 2 in the morning and I'm going on a train & to the aquarium tmrw so my ass CANNOT be waking up at 11 am again. Shits fucked. But when I tell you when I'm locked in on an undyne topic I AM LOCKED IN. IT TOOK A WHILE BUT I FINALLY DID IT. MORE THAN HALF OF THIS WAS WRITTEN WITH NO BREAKS OF CHECKS BUT THATS THE BEAUTY!!!!!! FLY MY SCARAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#been thinking about this driving myself crazy over my answer to this ask for so long #the thing is while I put a lot of thought into it what if everyone else disagrees and ive commited a ''character misinterpretation''™️?#i like the idea of it‚ but I do also want to prove myself as undyne understander no1 and I do not think i would be able to handle myself if #-i lost that #and then theres questions like ''would this be something people want to see?'' ''is there a specific way it should be done?''#''would this be a choice thatd be good FOR the characters to make''#and again. i have put SO much thinking into this. but its in a way where ive thought about it so much that maybe no one would even understa #have i completely thrown away the original character aside in favour of something i think is ''right''?#ive heard it a few times that the concept of fan children arent good because uts just trying to put characters into a #''stereotypical perfect little societally correct family''which ABSOLUTELY makes sense to me #which is why i overthink so much about how i portray it all. so i can get it right #but what if even then im still wrong. or what if im just here thinking way too hard about having fun on the Internet. i wrote a lot here sr #asks #chat you dont want to know how long ive had this ask for........listen i have a lot of thoughts and it takes me a really long time2 share o #the more i like something the more care goes into it. care = time. i think ive had this ask for a year.#can you tell i went off the rails here #unaltered #shot dead #do i even dare main tag #we'll see how the post goes over and when ive given it some thought I'll either tag it or i wont ok goodnight ily all <333333333 #!!#undertale #bogos i binted #utdr #undyne #undyne undertale #undyne deltarune #undyne the undying #deltarune #undine

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