thesortingmatt

[thesortingmatt]

Just wondering, are you gonna do more Disney sortings in the future?

Wow, actually so psyched someone is interested haha Yeah, I'll do more, I just don't have wifi in my current living situation and can't go many places that have wifi due to covid restrictions! I do have some notes I've scribbled about Judy Hopps, and a bunch of other characters! Your interest gave me a boost, I'll figure it out! Let me know if there are any characters you’d like me to do!

[thesortingmatt]

Disney Sorting: Nick Wilde (Double Snake, Self Pres. 8w7, ENTP)

I would peg Nick Wilde as a Double Snake (Trickster Archetype, as Wisteria Lodge would classify it), similar to Megara from Disney’s Hercules. To me, the playful/scheming snake secondaries in both Megara and Nick are obvious (Even how they tease their more earnest counterparts Judy/Herc with mocking nicknames like Carrots/Wonderboy, SMACKS of Snake Secondary). However, I do think it’s worth investigating Nick’s primary a little more deeply, because it will also illuminate his enneagram for us. There is a significant correlation between the Slytherin Primary and The Enneagram 8 personality type (I will probably write a longer post dedicated to these kinds of correlations in the future). 8′s are self-reliant to a fault, and are very selective about who they trust. They want to clearly divide the world into my people/not my people. They’re known to test others before letting them in (bully them even) because they don’t trust easy and fear being hurt! This behaviour comes from their core fear of being vulnerable/harmed/powerless.  A lot of people think Nick is a 7 (most fox characters get typed as ENTP 7′s), but 7′s core fear is deprivation/confinement/FOMO.  That’s not really Nick, he’s not looking to distract himself from internal emptiness/deprivation by seeking external stimulation like a 7. He is driven by his fear of vulnerability, like an 8.  His core fear/backstory is quintessentially 8: He was open and innocent, and the world hurt him. That's why he advises Judy "never let them see they get to you." All the scheming and grifting isn't because he wants treasure and pleasure (Think of like the Flynn Rider stereotype--surrounded by enormous piles of money!)--Poor Nicky just wants control over his destiny in a society/system that is hostile to his species. I also think 8′s perhaps unfairly stereotyped reputation for anger/aggression dovetails really nicely with the demonization of predators in the movie Zootopia.  Nick also has the classic 8 behaviour of poking at Judy's vulnerability, testing her, kind of bullying her, and she always responds with steel in her spine. That's classic 8 bonding, expressed through his teasing Snake Secondary (which he might share with Judy actually, since they seem to bond over Snake Secondary gamesmanship/outwitting one another, while their Primaries stick their tongues out at each other). In terms of his instinctual subtype, Nick Wilde is a sly, cynical self reliant self pres 8, again, similar to Megara from Hercules. This self pres subtype of 8 tend to vibe as chiller and more 5ish. For more detail please read an excerpt from Beatrice Chestnut about the cooler, 5ish self pres 8: "The driving need of Self-Preservation Eights can be described as an exaggerated ability to take care of themselves and find ways to meet their needs. In their focus on fulfilling their needs, they demonstrate a kind of exaggerated selfishness. They feel omnipotent in being able to satisfy and meet any need, and they disqualify any feeling, person, idea, or institution that opposes their desires. They will go against whatever. These Eights are characters who know how to survive in the most difficult situations and how to get what they want from other people. Naranjo sometimes refers to Self-Preservation Eights by the name “Survival,” because they excel at generating the material support they need to survive and satisfy their desires. Self-Preservation Eights know how to do business—according to Naranjo, they know how to barter and bargain and get the upper hand over anybody. Because they are strong, powerful, direct, and productive, they may generate dependency in others who come to rely on their control and protection. The Self-Preservation Eight is the most “armed” and protected of all of the Eights—this is a more Five-ish Eight. They tend to possess a quiet strength; they are survivors who communicate strength without feeling the need to explain themselves..." I might go back and add my MBTI thoughts later, but he just seems like a pretty obvious ENTP to me (though I could be convinced he’s an XSTP), so I’m not as interested in convincing anyone.  

[thesortingmatt]

Badger Snakes and The “Red-Stained Ledger”

Since my recent announcement identifying as a Badger Snake (don’t @ me if I change my primary at some point lol still going back over that one,) I’ve looked up some characters that have been identified as Badger Snakes, and found two things:

1) There weren’t very many in fiction and

2) most go through the same personal journey I had described in my previous post.

By that, I mean, a very similar feeling of self-loathing or feeling as though you have some dirty secret to hide, AKA the Red-Stained Ledger Natasha Romanoff refers to. The two main ones that have been agreed upon I’ll be focusing on are Woody from Toy Story and the aforementioned Black Widow, but I’ll also be bringing two new characters into the fray, one that’s been sorted as such based on the portrayal, and one that I’ve discovered on my own. They are Selina Kyle AKA Catwoman and Dewey Finn from School of Rock.

It’s interesting to find the similar plotlines that certain sortings are given consistently in media, and The Power Behind the Throne AKA Badger Snake seems to pretty much only have the one: They fight for the group that they are loyal to, but they can’t seem to help but do so in a way that they aren’t proud of, one that they’re sure would lead said group to shun them.

I’m sure someone could point out a character I’m not referencing here that doesn’t have that plot, but at the very least, this plot dominates the sorting.

Woody in the first movie goes through exactly that issue. He only wants to fight for Andy’s toys, and in many ways, all toys he comes across. He makes choices that he believes will benefit everyone, and prides himself on being able to make the “tough choices.” But, he ends up having to do so in a “duplicitous” way, when he seeks to manipulate Buzz Lightyear out of his group. This is a horrible, dirty secret to him, and he feels almost as if he could never return to them, never show his face again because of how he chooses to fight. In the end, he reaffirms that his actions come from a good place, a place of love for his group, and finds ways to use his crafty talents that are slightly more constructive and a little less “cloak and dagger.”

Natasha Romanoff has given me the namesake for this Badger Snake element: the Red-Stained Ledger. She describes her desire to fight for her country, for her family, but struggles with what she knows she’s good at. She believes she’s inherently a bad person and is determined to remain a loner due to her “badness,” due to the “monster” she is. Good people don’t lie or manipulate. Good people… uh… I dunno, bake cakes or something? Work humble jobs? But, her contribution to the world, her ability to be clever and tricky, means that holding her group, her country, her family, the Avengers themselves, only in her heart and not in her hands. But, her true colors are shown in her never-ending dedication to the cause, down to her being willing to give her life so that no one else has to do it. In a way, it’s sad, because she died believing she in some way deserved it. But, none of her teammates felt that way about her. She may have been crafty, a master manipulator, and a skillful liar, but she was the farthest thing from bad.

Now, onto the two newer additions. I’ve seen Selina Kyle sorted as Double Snake, and I would agree that there are many interpretations that could fit the bill. But, if you ask me, the truest interpretation of her is as The Power Behind the Throne, the Robin Hood with no loud cause to shout from the rooftops; only a desire to help the people of Gotham. She uses her skills as a thief to act as a sort of “guardian angel” to the poorest in Gotham, but she has no grand statement to make. She sees people hurting, her group, the underdogs of Gotham, and came to their aid. But she does so quietly, secretly, because she believes in her heart that the way she has done so is not worthy of praise. She’s a con and a thief, but, she places people above all else. She, in some interpretations, is one of the main people to open Bruce’s eyes to the fact that not all criminals are necessarily bad people. Some of them are just in terrible situations they can’t get out of. And yet, she won’t afford that benefit of the doubt to herself, believing she is simply a broken toy not worth fixing. Her occasionally lackadaisical attitude towards killing may seem to make Badger primary unlikely, but Badgers are not always loyal to ALL humans. Her group is the poor and downtrodden, and those who act against them are less than human in her eyes.

Now, we come to my personal favorite, my own personal discovery: Dewey Finn from one of my favorite movies, School of Rock.

Dewey is a fabulous example of a Badger Snake, in my personal opinion. His chosen group is Rock with a Capital R and “the band,” whichever band that may currently be. He may have some sort of Burnt Snake primary performance/model going on, wanting to play the part of a “rock star” that truly only cares about himself, but his true loyalty is very clear. He is worried about doing his chosen group justice in every way, making sure that Rock is being well-represented and that he’s serving his current band the very best he has to offer. Being kicked out of his band at the very beginning is earth-shattering to him, not because he has a Snake primary style devotion to only them, but because they told him he let them down, and implying that he wasn’t representing Rock the way he should. His Snake primary performance/model melts away as he bonds to his new band, the kids he teaches. He brings them into his chosen group of Rock and creates a new bonded group with them in particular as they form a band. He actually finds himself liberated by taking a backseat to the children (a very Badger primary thing to enjoy,) allowing Zack to play his song, guiding Freddie away from making bad choices, helping Tamika find her voice, encouraging fellow Snake secondary Summer how to use her shrewdness, and, using a method I believe is best utilized by Badger Snakes, helping Principal Mullins find her chill. Lol.

Badger Snakes, more than any other Snake secondary type, will rely on the “we aren’t so different you and I” approach to get what they want. He finds out Mullins also enjoys Rock. This is something they have in common! Let’s create a situation where we “naturally” find out we have this thing in common, placing us both in the same group. Although other primaries don’t glorify groups as much as Badger primaries do, all people are more likely to listen to or help out someone they feel is like them in some way. So, Dewey puts some Stevie Nicks on the jukebox and gets Mullins on his side.

In a similar fashion to the characters listed above, Dewey believes he is truly a loser and has nothing of any actual value or goodness to provide. But, the children help him see he’s wrong, and he finds a way to utilize his talents in a way that truly fulfills him.

In conclusion, although seemingly unrepresented, I think there actually may be quite a few more Badger Snakes hiding in media, and, perhaps, they can be outed by looking for the Red-Stained Ledger plotline. Badger primaries are more likely, in my opinion, to be disturbed by their actions than say a Lion primary, due to where their loyalties truly lie. Although Lions may fight for the right thing, and that right thing may involve people’s rights or serving a group, they serve that right thing before any of the people they may steamroll over to achieve it. Badgers, by definition, serve things. And, usually, lying, cheating, or otherwise being crafty is viewed as the worst possible way to serve someone or something. They do care about the things they may hurt or damage through their actions, and how they use their talents does, in fact, matter to them immensely.

So, to my Badger Snakes out there struggling with their own so-called “Red-Stained Ledgers”, just remember that Dewey Finn would think you’re kick-ass.

EDIT: Sorry, was thinking about it, and had to put an edit. Another way to think of this plotline/character archetype is mentioned in School of Rock as well as in a musical I know very well. I wouldn’t use this moniker as the name for this plotline, only because it describes a very specific Snake secondary, one that is playful and light-hearted, and not all Snake secondaries are like this.

Zack’s song refers to Dewey as The Magic Man, a person that swoops in and, almost by magic (in actuality, manipulation) brings out the best in the people around them. In the aforementioned musical, this character is called The Music Man.

Harold Hill may very well be another Badger Snake, although one more heavily disguised than Dewey Finn. I won’t go too deep into his characterization here, but know he’s a conman who claims to be a band instructor, while he has no musical talent himself, planning on taking the money for the uniforms and instruments and running. Instead, almost without realizing it, he encourages and manipulates the people of the town he enters into becoming better versions of what they are now. And, the most tragic part of his character is revealed once another character, one of the children he’s conned, points out that there isn’t a band, and never has been one. Harold tells him “I always think there’s a band, kid.”

It’s interesting that, in both of these cases, they are associated with music and an almost mystical ability to bring out the best in others. I might do a more in-depth look at Harold Hill at some point, since I’ve been planning on doing some musical characters for a bit.

If thinking about having a Red-Stained Ledger is too negative for your own self-image, think of yourself as The Music Man. Your friends and the people around you may actually see you as an almost mystical force for good, someone who always seems to know the right thing to say or do to bring out the best in them. :)

[thesortingmatt]

Thanks for the analysis. I think you nailed my houses. I appreciate you didn't pull any punches! It hurt really bad, and I'm embarrassed but I think what you said was honest, insightful, and I am taking it to heart. I realize now that I should have referenced the system more, and maybe not hit on the revenge narrative thing so many times (like, I think you got it after the first 3 stories lol), but I really wanted an honest reaction to my worst qualities. I think you did a good job of responding politely/constructively to behavioral patterns that disgust you. It was like someone lancing a boil with aplomb.

I'll try to resist the temptation to justify myself line by line with the post (because I think my worse behaviour is related to that sense of justification) but I'll just touch on the flooding since you asked: I honestly felt (still feel) super bad about it and while I did not personally fix it (can barely change light bulbs), I sincerely apologized, paid for all the damages, put her up at a hotel while they fixed her ceiling, and took her rage with gentle good humour since it was my own stupidity. I didn't think it was justified or revenge or anything. It was just me being a scatterbrained bonehead (I've lost my keys, wallet, and phone in separate instances in the last month alone) and ruining someone's week.

After a bit of time had passed, I had actually assumed you weren't going to sort me (and was a bit relieved because I had regretted that what I sent you wasn't flattering and had way too many revealing details), but I truly appreciate that you took the time to do it anyway, and you did it well! I've got a few things to reflect on! Thanks!

authoritarian badger primary + snake secondary

Sorry if this is the improper channels, I just created my first ever tumblr account to follow you haha I would love help with sorting, you’re quite astute and it would be such a service to me as I’ve struggled for years with it, despite (or perhaps because of) reading so many posts about it! I’m much better at speed-reading randos, than I am at categorizing myself.  

I was that classic gifted underachiever.

ugh, I hate the word “gifted.” I’m so pleased that it’s falling out of favor in education circles.

I felt bad for some of my teachers, because I knew they probably blamed themselves. To make them see I appreciated them, I would study their teaching methods, and then give them positive feedback. I was the kid who would sleep through English, then write a collection of stories about the teachers, infusing classical literature and mythological references, performed them in the cafeteria, and sold them for lots of money to the students.

You sound like you were probably bored. Look, don’t feel bad about your teachers. Some students are just Anakins. High ability, low emotional maturity. We know that all we can do is give you guys a safe space until you figure yourselves out.

I wrote about my incompetent Math Teacher, Mrs. Malatestinic, as the Malatesting-Sphinx, an awful creature that posed mathematical riddles she herself did not understand. She didn’t like that (I failed math by 1 percent that semester lol), but when the math department heard me reading, he gasped sharply, his face went bright red and he started shaking in a way that looked life stifled laughter.

… this is your second, like, vengeance narrative? (slept though english class > made $$$ selling writing) (wrote hit piece about teacher > department head secretly agrees with you.) And you haven’t said anything that has anything to do with the Sortinghat Chats System???

I have almost no practical skills of my own (I find it hard to even change my lightbulbs, so I sometimes pee in the dark)

You must have some very understanding roommates.

but I pride myself on my interpersonal pixie dust. I seem to cheer people up, and I like to think I have a keen eye for people. One of my favourite compliments was when a young woman told me I had an almost supernatural ability for making others feel seen.

Okay, so a very social secondary, I can work with that. Going with *not Badger* as a hypothesis, since you almost seem to get kind of a kick out of not being exactly useful.

I naturally bond groups around me wherever I go, and I notice without this sort of found family dynamic in my life (a little team/group/family) I get depressed. I have fused my entire being with my job and have become a sort of mascot/face of the business, and despite not actually being the highest ranked/most senior employee.

… and we have a Badger primary.

I wish I was gentler, but my love for my people is pesky and meddlesome and I worry some day people will tire of me. I get overly involved in people’s lives (even when they ask me not to get involved, I take that as code for “I wouldn’t want to bother you, but secretly I wish you would get involved”).

I’m everyone’s unofficial therapist. This big mouth gets me into trouble sometimes, especially when I attack the powers that be on behalf of the underdog (something I can never resist)

Oh ouch. Yeah, that is some exploded, Authoritarian Badger right there. You get involved in peoples lives when they tell you to stay out? You view yourself as a universal therapist and righteous defender of those who cannot defend themselves? You write like you’ve got all the answers, and everyone else in your life is scared, or helpless.

I once flooded a grouchy old lady’s apartment by accident (ADHD) and then when she called to scream at me, she ended up telling me her whole life story instead.

I know this is the Badger secondary in me, but did you like… help fix the apartment? Untreated water damage can lead to black mold.

And yet, I cannot keep a secret to save my life, people should not be telling me things! My mom and boss often warn me about burning bridges. I know this is true in theory, but sometimes I just get triggered.

Impulsivity is something that people with ADHD can struggle with, but I can’t link it to a specific secondary.

I was bullied and abused a lot as a child/teen, but I never believed I deserved it, only that I lacked power, so I had to dig deep and outwit my opponents. I find story arcs of clever but physically underpowered oddballs like Mulan and Tyrion very satisfying for that reason! I tend to be a bit of a con for the cause at times—I toy with people and can be a bit of a “storyteller”. My saintly double badger mom strongly disapproves of this tendency in me, and half teasing, half scolding calls me Harold Hill (The Music Man).

Snake secondary, for sure. 

I have an awful petty flaw of never forgetting a slight! When the people I love/invest in betray me, I am devastated, and that disillusionment can fester into hatred under extreme circumstances. Darker still, when people cross a certain line morally, they seem to forfeit their personhood in my eyes. Gloves are off, and since I’m kind of an empath I basically have all the destruct codes to people’s souls.

That is… the dehumanizing aspect of a Badger primary in full swing, which has been a through line this whole time. The math teacher was incompetent, so it was fine to mess with her. The old lady was grouchy, so flooding her apartment wasn’t a big deal.

Some examples of my dark fuckery (if tldr, skip to final paragraph 😊):

I will cut this out, actually. There are a *lot* of revenge narratives here, some of them get pretty dark, and in my opinion… these are situations where you either went too far or shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place. I guess they re-affirm the ‘I know best’ of the Authoritarian Badger, and the improvisational problem solving skills of the Snake secondary.

Um yes, so sorry about how long this is, every time I went to edit it down, it got longer! I understand if you don’t have the time or inclination to read, let alone analyze all this! But at least it helped me a little to write it all out. Please know I love your posts, you’re brilliant! I will lose entire days  studying and obsessing over your posts. Thank you for everything!

You’re welcome. And don’t take any of this too badly. Badger primaries get Authoritarian streaks sometimes, it happens. And if you’re worried that “people will tire of you” - I will say, as someone who has known quite a few Authoritarian Badgers. I didn’t get tired of them, I got exhausted, felt condescended to, and it was an all around unpleasant experience. 

[thesortingmatt]

authoritarian badger primary + snake secondary

Sorry if this is the improper channels, I just created my first ever tumblr account to follow you haha I would love help with sorting, you’re quite astute and it would be such a service to me as I’ve struggled for years with it, despite (or perhaps because of) reading so many posts about it! I’m much better at speed-reading randos, than I am at categorizing myself.  

I was that classic gifted underachiever.

ugh, I hate the word “gifted.” I’m so pleased that it’s falling out of favor in education circles.

I felt bad for some of my teachers, because I knew they probably blamed themselves. To make them see I appreciated them, I would study their teaching methods, and then give them positive feedback. I was the kid who would sleep through English, then write a collection of stories about the teachers, infusing classical literature and mythological references, performed them in the cafeteria, and sold them for lots of money to the students.

You sound like you were probably bored. Look, don’t feel bad about your teachers. Some students are just Anakins. High ability, low emotional maturity. We know that all we can do is give you guys a safe space until you figure yourselves out.

I wrote about my incompetent Math Teacher, Mrs. Malatestinic, as the Malatesting-Sphinx, an awful creature that posed mathematical riddles she herself did not understand. She didn’t like that (I failed math by 1 percent that semester lol), but when the math department heard me reading, he gasped sharply, his face went bright red and he started shaking in a way that looked life stifled laughter.

… this is your second, like, vengeance narrative? (slept though english class > made $$$ selling writing) (wrote hit piece about teacher > department head secretly agrees with you.) And you haven’t said anything that has anything to do with the Sortinghat Chats System???

I have almost no practical skills of my own (I find it hard to even change my lightbulbs, so I sometimes pee in the dark)

You must have some very understanding roommates.

but I pride myself on my interpersonal pixie dust. I seem to cheer people up, and I like to think I have a keen eye for people. One of my favourite compliments was when a young woman told me I had an almost supernatural ability for making others feel seen.

Okay, so a very social secondary, I can work with that. Going with *not Badger* as a hypothesis, since you almost seem to get kind of a kick out of not being exactly useful.

I naturally bond groups around me wherever I go, and I notice without this sort of found family dynamic in my life (a little team/group/family) I get depressed. I have fused my entire being with my job and have become a sort of mascot/face of the business, and despite not actually being the highest ranked/most senior employee.

… and we have a Badger primary.

I wish I was gentler, but my love for my people is pesky and meddlesome and I worry some day people will tire of me. I get overly involved in people’s lives (even when they ask me not to get involved, I take that as code for “I wouldn’t want to bother you, but secretly I wish you would get involved”).

I’m everyone’s unofficial therapist. This big mouth gets me into trouble sometimes, especially when I attack the powers that be on behalf of the underdog (something I can never resist)

Oh ouch. Yeah, that is some exploded, Authoritarian Badger right there. You get involved in peoples lives when they tell you to stay out? You view yourself as a universal therapist and righteous defender of those who cannot defend themselves? You write like you’ve got all the answers, and everyone else in your life is scared, or helpless.

I once flooded a grouchy old lady’s apartment by accident (ADHD) and then when she called to scream at me, she ended up telling me her whole life story instead.

I know this is the Badger secondary in me, but did you like… help fix the apartment? Untreated water damage can lead to black mold.

And yet, I cannot keep a secret to save my life, people should not be telling me things! My mom and boss often warn me about burning bridges. I know this is true in theory, but sometimes I just get triggered.

Impulsivity is something that people with ADHD can struggle with, but I can’t link it to a specific secondary.

I was bullied and abused a lot as a child/teen, but I never believed I deserved it, only that I lacked power, so I had to dig deep and outwit my opponents. I find story arcs of clever but physically underpowered oddballs like Mulan and Tyrion very satisfying for that reason! I tend to be a bit of a con for the cause at times—I toy with people and can be a bit of a “storyteller”. My saintly double badger mom strongly disapproves of this tendency in me, and half teasing, half scolding calls me Harold Hill (The Music Man).

Snake secondary, for sure. 

I have an awful petty flaw of never forgetting a slight! When the people I love/invest in betray me, I am devastated, and that disillusionment can fester into hatred under extreme circumstances. Darker still, when people cross a certain line morally, they seem to forfeit their personhood in my eyes. Gloves are off, and since I’m kind of an empath I basically have all the destruct codes to people’s souls.

That is… the dehumanizing aspect of a Badger primary in full swing, which has been a through line this whole time. The math teacher was incompetent, so it was fine to mess with her. The old lady was grouchy, so flooding her apartment wasn’t a big deal.

Some examples of my dark fuckery (if tldr, skip to final paragraph 😊):

I will cut this out, actually. There are a *lot* of revenge narratives here, some of them get pretty dark, and in my opinion… these are situations where you either went too far or shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place. I guess they re-affirm the ‘I know best’ of the Authoritarian Badger, and the improvisational problem solving skills of the Snake secondary.

Um yes, so sorry about how long this is, every time I went to edit it down, it got longer! I understand if you don’t have the time or inclination to read, let alone analyze all this! But at least it helped me a little to write it all out. Please know I love your posts, you’re brilliant! I will lose entire days  studying and obsessing over your posts. Thank you for everything!

You’re welcome. And don’t take any of this too badly. Badger primaries get Authoritarian streaks sometimes, it happens. And if you’re worried that “people will tire of you” - I will say, as someone who has known quite a few Authoritarian Badgers. I didn’t get tired of them, I got exhausted, felt condescended to, and it was an all around unpleasant experience.