toestychonk

[toestychonk]

One one hand, she is right in the sense that there are too many that rather pick the low hanging fruit instead of dissecting the writing and art of a show and creator that DEMANDS that we do.

It's really lazy and rather uncreative to just spam the same 2 - 3 nitpicks instead of expanding upon them imo and i'm sure that seeing that would be annoying to any creator. It screams "I don't actually want to discuss this show, I'm just doing this for any attention it gives me."

On the other hand, she's the internet equivalent of a celebrity so that comes with the territory and still being mad at dumb criticisms out of your control is just... so immature.

Also, WOOOOOO VIv DELETED TWITTER!!!!!!

So much better for her mental health anyways!!!

If ya want some weird satire type discussion, here ya go:

(Satire)

This got me thinking, does the community think Vivienne's POV matters? I personally think her pov matters, obviously. After all, she is a human being just like any of us. But I wanna hear from you, what do you guys think? Again, this is out of a morbid curiosity of some sort, not to start a fight or to judge. (Edit: originally there was a poll here and I decided it wasn't necessary.)

[toestychonk]

Does anyone remember when the internet was flooded with Spinel-appreciation after the movie premiered?

Me too...

I remember waiting for the movie to premiere on my tablet cuz the tv was taken over lol

[toestychonk]

The more I look at what Viv prioritizes in writing and in her fandom, the more I see her as just a toxic fangirl given a budget. And how much of this drama is her own fault (getting mad at criticism over episodes she wrote and getting mad that not everyone thinks spamming fuck is funny).

She and her inner circle are lucky their shows make Amazon a shit ton of money so they could *possibly* be as much of jackasses online without much blowback from the higherups.

[toestychonk]

I think Viv didn't set out to make an IP or a brand at first, but once the views and money started dwindling, she became more and more comfortable (or desperate) with whoring them out in terms of merchandise.

I'm surprised we don't have a Helluva Boss collab with a company like Bad Dragon at this point tbh.

I think Viv will ride out both shows with many more scandals/dramas whether it's surrounding her, her shows, or her fans. I don't think she'll lose her job or if she does, I don't think it'll be quiet. The reason is Viv is spiteful and she seems like the type to raise a bitchfit + a loud bunch of her standom is crazy af so if Viv leaves, there most likely will be the internet equivalent of a fucking riot.

I think she'll keep going til both shows are done and then she'll just probably go back to zoophobia or one of her other ideas while having the title of Creator of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss cuz of how widely successful they were.

At this point I don't mind the theory of Viv only caring about the aesthetic of the things she claims to care about. Even the main character designs are all suit and ties except for Vaggie and Niffty.

And I'm pretty sure that's why Alastor knows what "that's the tea" means but he doesn't know what ace means?

Im starting to believe that it's all an aesthetic to her. Even the hell setting is just a sandbox for aesthetics.

Which is fine, but characters have to be more than just aesthetics and one liners. *cough* the majority of female hellaverse characters *cough*

[toestychonk]

I swear, sometimes it feels like Charlie is more obsessed with the idea of what a good person is rather than what it actually takes to be one. Because those are very different.

Charlie wants to shape them into something SHE thinks what makes a good person, such as not doing drugs, not having sex before marriage, and partaking in summer camp activities. Yeah those are what makes a good person, but it's not really getting to the core of the problem the clients are facing and feels very surface level.

Where as in contrast, what it actually takes to be one is having a basic understanding of people and who they are. It's about being there for them and performing simple acts of kindness and selflessness, and sometimes that can be reciprocated too. It's about being able to empathize with people and learning to get along despite the differences we might have.

At least to me that's what it takes to be a good person.

And if Charlie can't understand or learn that it's going to take more than what she's doing in the show, her hotel can never succeed.

Charlie wanting to help people but not knowing exactly how to would've been a great character arc. The thing is...

they already kinda fumbled that one cuz of Lucifer and Vaggie reassuring Charlie that she's doing right when she's done little to no actual helping all season.

Like do they want a character that always means well but fucks up/has learning to do or do they want a character that needs no changing cuz she was right all along?

[toestychonk]

At this point I don't mind the theory of Viv only caring about the aesthetic of the things she claims to care about. Even the main character designs are all suit and ties except for Vaggie and Niffty.

And I'm pretty sure that's why Alastor knows what "that's the tea" means but he doesn't know what ace means?

Im starting to believe that it's all an aesthetic to her. Even the hell setting is just a sandbox for aesthetics.

Which is fine, but characters have to be more than just aesthetics and one liners. *cough* the majority of female hellaverse characters *cough*

[toestychonk]

CAT DUMP

I luv how Romes has a resting bitch face lol

[toestychonk]

I love how Vivzie always says she care about suicide but then BOTH her shows are littered with suicide jokes and even plotlines (looking at you C.H.E.R.U.B). Like, girl. Just admit you either don't give a fuck at all or you only give a fuck when it's convenient for you.

I think that would be far more respectable instead of this performative shit. Like if you care that much like you say you do, get a fucking sensitivity reader/viewer, get better at writing jokes that are accessible to everyone, or please, please shut the fuck up. You're making yourself look worse with each argument.

Also, sensitivity readers/viewers are incredibly important and the sheer amount of controversies from her shows along is very telling that she/her team just doesn't have one and they don't care to get one.

[toestychonk]

Okay so I've been wondering...

How many of you actually hate Viv THAT much? Like wanting death or ill will to happen to her type stuff.

I'm just curious...

Once again, this isn't malice or to troll. I'm not trying to prove one way or the other. The thought just popped into my mind and here we are.

Tried to be inclusive even if I personally don't agree with some of the levels of hatred.

Psst there's a post I made about the cashmeousside girl cuz I just randomly remembered her and now you gotta remember her too.

Also, whoever is archiving my posts, because I know you're out there, hai!!!ヾ(＾ ∇ ＾).

[toestychonk]

I recently fell into the rabbit hole of Danielle Bregoli/Cashmeousside/Bhadbhabie.

I was curious as to what became of her so I looked her up and found this video in a sea of others.

I've always felt bad for her. especially when she first got famous at 13. Not just that, but it made me realize how much I hate the whole idea of allowing your parents to get away with treating you like shit because that's your mom/dad. And to know that she's in her own toxic relatioship with her own boyfriend and their kid makes me so depressed...

[toestychonk]

Helluva boss season 2 would've been much better if the writers actually wanted to explore relationships. instead of expecting the viewer to just piece from context clues. There's subtlety and then there's just laziness.

Below for fun:

This is me just trying to have fun since we gotta wait til the Loona short for more material to talk about.

I know it this isn't hellaverse related, but I decided to have fun and ask a question about my polls with another poll!

Why do this? Cuz I'm bored and I think it's funny. Btw i'm not doing this out of malice or to troll. It's me just being weird af for fun. So please be honest in the following polls as i'm in a mood to be not roasted, but lightly toasted. (I know of the possibility of some to lie in order to skew results. Just saying, I'm not an idiot.)

I know i'm weird. I don't give a blue fuck cuz if I wasn't "weird", I wouldn't be myself.

Also

The thing beyond the keep reading is 18+ themed so be warned.

I wonder if Popeye the Sailor used spinach instead of Viagra...

(⊙_⊙) Nevermind!!!

[toestychonk]

There's hella competition now...

So uh Steven universe is going to have a spinoff that focuses on fucking Lars of all people exploring gem species lore. I personally thought the lore was cool but I cared more the stuff that was more intertwined with the interpersonal relationship stuff like the fusions tbh.

Not just that, but Glitch animations struck a deal with Prime video as well. The entirety of Murder Drones is on Prime to my knowledge.

How will Viv take this? I don't know.

I was kinda hoping the SU fandoms and the Hazbin fandoms meet cuz they're both different layers of crazy (obv Hellaverse fandom is far more batshit). And as much as I hate to say it, the Hellaverse fandom is the far, worse successor to the SU fandom in terms of how loud and massive it is. I know the Owl House also had a pretty big and well deserved fanbase as well, but in terms of scope, impact, sheer size, and the amount of criticism each fandom and their shows get, the Hellaverse fandom is the closest except they are far, far more toxic and disgusting imo.

Not just that, but both are lgbt musicals with poc voice actors centered around redemption and forgiveness.

All we need left is the bronies to make this the fucking unholy trinity of controversial and toxic fandoms. And I'm a huge SU fan. It's okay to see flaws in things you love. It's fair and even healthy to admit it.

[toestychonk]

I dislike Raph as a person on multiple levels but I'll explain in a list.

They kin Angel waaaaaaaaaay too much. Like even changing their APPEARNCE and NAME to resemble him. That it gets concerning to a severe degree and I've heard rumors they are getting into sex work too which is... Concerning with all this combined. .

Completely is misinforming people what noncon is because from what I'm aware it's just a variant of CONSENSUAL roleplay. The people who participate in it take safety precautions thats why its called non consensual consent. Now we can still start an online debate the ethics of that but it isn't the focus. What is the focus is Raph telling thousands of people that full blown R@PE is the same thing and people buying that. THAT PUTS PEOPLE IN DANGER. .

Let's say I believe Raphielle didn't know the person was 15.. WHY IS NO ONE POINTING OUT NO MATTER THE AGE RAPHIELLE'S FIRST INSTINCT UPON GETTTING PISSY IS INSTANT SEXUAL HARRASSMENT! I don't care if your hypersexual or if someone was constrained that still doesn't mean sexual harrassment is ok! If Raphielle did this shit at ANY workplace. And b4 people be like it's a personal twitter- NO IT'S NOT! Raphielle uses their socials for work so the boundary between personal and professional doesn't exist. And most places of employment even if Raphielle did that after hours i assume most places would still fire their ass. And from a business perspective knowing all this in what Raphielle is so brazen about this what happens behind closed doors? Raphielle seems like someone who would get themselves and Spindlehorse sued in a sexual harassment case ESPECIALLY when there's no HR at Spindlehorse. .

And let's not all pretend Raphielle has a high enough position at Spindlehorse and has no influence on Vivziepop. Like did we forget she puts the people she likes/cronies at the top. And I know Viv had an abusive/shitty bf because she posted about it before deleting it.... And you can tell she used that experience to write the prequel comic and create the music video. Yet Valentino's portrayal is completely fucking different and while yeah the writing for Hazbin the series is awful.... I can't help but wonder based on what we know if Raphielle and Viv are feeding into each other in some way.

All of that is valid af. Yes, Raph is into sex work to my knowledge and I just hope he's going to a therapist even if he gives me the ick.

As for him being a sex pest online, I kinda forgot about that one tbh. Him being one of the favorites cuz he feeds into the sexuality of the hellaverse (and into Viv's fetish) is very likely.

Social media is still a public place and basic human decency is a two way street and good luck to him trying to find work other than freelance if he ever does something to piss Viv off and gets fired for it.

[toestychonk]

Raph

DO NOT HARRASS THIS PERSON OR RAPH, PLEASE. THIS IS ONLY FOR DISCUSSION

So I don't normally talk about Raph and I found this interview. It was interesting to say the least, but it illustrated my problems with his, Viv's, and the fandom's behavior.

The TLDR of the video is that Raph explaining how he got into Hazbin through the character of Angel Dust and how Angel opened up this side of Raph and "freed him". Essentially Angel gave him the confidence to be more sexual which is fine. Viv's characters are allowed to be inspiring to people as long as that person's not getting the wrong ideas from the Hellaverse and/or they're not a toxic/garbage-y person, that's a-okay or at least it should be.

There was one thing that did bother me and that was him basically saying the episode and his comic having a similar dialogue was just a coincidence. And yes, I know Raph DIDN'T write this episode and that he's just a board artist doing his job. And all says is that Vivienne has a rape fetish because WHY WOULD YOU WRITE SOMETHING SO CLOSE TO WHAT'S IN RAPH'S RAPE FETISH COMIC?!? I really didn't wanna believe it but just this and the favorites playlist really made me realize it. (What a dumbass, amirite?)

And while Viv's fetish is legal and it's dumb to bitch about something I can't do anything about, we are allowed get the ick from something and this gives me the ick.

To be fair, I skimmed through the playlist and those first 3 are the only videos of that type. It's not a rape fetish playlist or whatever some like to portay it . (The fact they're in there at all is still disgusting af, but at least it remains as evidence of Viv being a skeezy rape fetishist.) The rest is dumb late 2000s - early 2010s YouTube shit. Not just that but we don't know how long ago that was and interests change, even sexual, so who knows if this even does it for her anymore? And frankly, that's none of our business, but let's be real. Some of us make it our business with someone like this.

Also, I kinda get why they wanna cover it up as Viv gets a lot of hate as it is. Can you imagine if it was public knowledge that she thought the idea of rape was hot? Like, I don't want Viv to kill herself.

But anyway, what do you guys think about Raph? Is he as much to blame as Viv or is he just a worker?

That's it. Happy pride and have a fantastic day/week/year!

[toestychonk]

Me everytime I see Viv being a piss baby over some dumb shit on bluesky:

Also, me when I found out that Hazbin season 2 is gonna have Charlie and Vaggie have a "sexy song":

Cuz if we know Spindlehorse and Vivzie, they're gonna milk that cash cow for ages. I mean, probably the only thing that's keeping them afloat is probably catering to Loona fans and/or perverts, Stolitz fans, and edgy teenagers/children. I'm happy that Chaggie is getting some more spotlight, but my problem with that is whether that's gonna be the only display of their relationship in season 2 or not (cuz lesbians and sapphic relationships are still heavily sexualized). If it is then I can't wait for the backlash to that along with the Alastor and Rosie song.

[toestychonk]

Happy Pride again! Here's an oc.

Disappointed with Viv's reluctance to include gnc/genderqueer characters, I decided to repurpose a recent oc of mine to remedy my problem. Tbh, this reminded me why I like making ocs with their own lore and backstories. Worldbuilding is fun.

Here is Iris, an agender demon (who's also a spunky and defiant smartass). Iris prefers they/them but it's not the end of the world if you call them "she/her" as most demons are fem presenting except for incubi which are masc presenting.

There's more demonic lore including a human companion, and a story that I've been cooking up (including an explanation as to why the end of their tail is grey).

Just please lmk if you guys want to see more of them cuz, sadly, I can't read minds.

I'm also in a very receptive mood so how did I do with her design? Any criticisms? Any questions?

[toestychonk]

Yapping:

Okay so I was gonna record an audio of me talking about my weekend and... I need an entire recording/editing day for something like that with a script and everything (I'm the type where if I know if i'm being recorded/watched, i'll stumble over my words and have a much harder time articulating what I want to say. Fuck having adhd sometimes). So big text post it is!

1) So I went on a poor man's vacay and came back yesterday (went downstate and stayed with relatives for a couple days and then came back up). It was pretty fun. I went swimming at their sports complex, went out to eat at both Bob Evans and Applebees (on different days ofc) for the first time. Both were pretty good. Went to their Meijers, Wal-Mart and Five below to see if their locations have different shit from ours. So, it was a fun but short vacay.

2) Been thinking about Big mouth lately since season 8 release and honestly, while i'm sad to see it go (I was a freshman when the first season came out), I'm happy Netflix decided that 8 seasons was long enough. Yes, it was way too explicit... but I would just look away cuz I liked some of the of the jokes and ideas. (Missy was my fave cuz I related to being a weird nerd and not fitting in.)

3) One thing that kinda bothers me about Hazbin Discourse is that nobody seems to know or even care what the first season is supposed to represent.

I'm pretty sure that it represents cancel culture. It's why the excorcists's helmets look like demons and the "winners"/angels also swear as it's supposed to highlight their hypocrisy. It makes sense given Viv's experience with both *very much * deserved and undeserved bitching at her that she would write from experience.

I see what Viv's trying to do as cancel culture is a huge part of redemption in the modern day. The season is still bad cuz of the inconsistencies, tonal whiplash, blink and you'll miss it pacing, and lack of onscreen character growth.

It still doesn't change Vivenne's fanficy ass writing skills or the fact that she doesn't give a fuck about SA or suicide (despite her claims to her critics cuz what's in her shows tell a completely different story).

Anyway, Happy Pride! Prob gonna release a design of a new demonic oc soon so look out for that. Time to go to work. Tootles!