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is more accepted to be an inclusionist or an exclusionist on tumblr in general? i can never tell what the popular opinion is
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hi can i pls ask an ignorant question? if bi means being attracted to all the genders, what's the difference between that and pan? sorry if the answer's really obvious i know nothing lol
Hi so, honestly, there isnt a difference between bi and pan, bi is attraction to all genders, we have two labels that describe the same orientation.
Basically, the pan label was popularised online in the early 2000s. at the time there was a pervasive idea tht bisexuals were only attracted to cis men and women. This is from the first post on the 2002 Livejournal community, I Am Pansexual:
“… [T]his community is for pansexuals, as described in the user info. Pansexuals love people of all genders, male and female, but unlike bisexuals, pansexuals love transgendered, androgynous and gender fluid people, people who don’t fit into the categories of male or female.”
you can find the source for that quote and read more info on the history of pansexuality here. Those who IDed with the pan label back then used pan to mean attraction to cis men, cis women, and trans people. This definition is transphobic, trans men and women arent different genders to cis men and women and therefore, they dont fall under a separate attraction, nonbinary people arent a new third gender that you need a whole new and different sexuality in order to be attracted to. This is generally what people are referring to when they say the pansexual label has transphobic origins, but there have also been several redefinitions of pan that have also been transphobic.
I reccomend watching this youtube video which addresses the narrative that bi activism has a history of ‘rampant transphobia’.
Since 2002 the label has gone through several changes in definition, but the most common one lately seems to be that pan is attraction to all genders (regardless of gender); while bi is attraction to 2 or more (gender is a factor in attraction).
But if we look back at bi history, we can see that bisexuality has never been limited by gender, bisexuals were never fixated on the bi = 2 definition. its also useful to know that when people first started iding as bisexual (Stephen Donaldson, also known as Donny the Punk, was one of the first people to id as bisexual in around 1966 and the label gained popularity in the 70s), it meant something similar to unisex.
Bisexuals have been describing their bisexuality as attraction regardless of gender since the 70s;
“Being bisexual does not mean they have sexual relations with both sexes but that they are capable of meaningful and intimate involvement with a person regardless of gender”
Janet Bode, The Pressure Cooker, View From Another Closet (1976)
“I am bisexual because I am drawn to particular people regardless of gender. It doesn’t make me wishy-washy, confused, untrustworthy, or more sexually liberated. It makes me a bisexual.”
The Bisexual Community: Are We Visible Yet?, By Lani Ka’ahumanu (1987)
and The 1990 Bisexual Manifesto:
“Bisexuality is a whole, fluid identity. Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature: that we have “two” sides or that we must be involved simultaneously with both genders to be fulfilled human beings. In fact, don’t assume that there are only two genders.”
evidences that bisexuals were aknowledging nonbinary genders (although they would have used genderqu**r or genderfuck instead of nonbinary as nonbinary was coined as a gender term more recently than the 90s) and including them in their bisexuality a decade before the I Am Pansexual community even existed. This is one of the many reasons why the pan label is also biphobic, because it trys to redefine bisexuality against bisexuals will, so that pan can mean attraction to all genders instead of bisexual.
If you want to read more about how different definitions of pansexual are based in biphobia i reccomend this article.
Here is the current defintion of bisexuality, as used by the American Institute of Bisexuality, and the Journal of Bisexuality. from the bi.org website:
“There are as many ways to be bi as there are bi people. No one word can fully capture the nuances of personality, culture, beliefs, or personal preference; no word should try to. The term bisexuality makes no such pretense— it is a general and inclusive term that encompasses everyone; all sexes and all genders. That does not mean that bi people are attracted to everyone, merely that bi people’s attractions aren’t limited by sex or gender.”
“Please also note that attraction to both same and different means attraction to all. Bisexuality is inherently inclusive of everyone, regardless of sex or gender.��
If you want to read more about bi history then this article; The Bisexual History They Don’t Want You to Know by @mediumkravitz is a good place to start. Kravtiz has also written; Does Liking a Nonbinary Person Make You Bi or Pan? Not Necessarily. which might clear up any confusion on where attraction to nonbinary genders fits into sexuality.
Also lastly, if you would like to read more on bisexuality and bi history, i recently made this masterlist of bi books, which might be helpful.
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i fucking hate to make an ace discourse post in 20 fucking 20 but it really needs to be said and i KNOW this is gonna come off as a smarmy “i told you so post”
but i’ve been on twitter recently and there is a fucking DELUGE of people promoting the idea of “bisexual lesbians” (never bisexual gay men but like… that’s a tangential dialogue for another time). this idea that you can be bisexual and a lesbian at the same time is a direct product of the split attraction model.
this is the EXACT shit i was talking about when I said rhetoric from ace community is not compatible, at all, with the LGBT community.
sexualizing the -sexual suffix so “bisexual” SOLELY means “SEXUALLY attracted to the opposite gender” so someone can be bisexual and “homoromantic” is ACTIVELY harmful to lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals. it sexualizes bisexuals without consent and COMPLETELY redefines what gayness is so it can include attraction to the “opposite” gender.
and this is just one example of how ace inclusion–not just the inclusion of cisgender, straight aces but also the prioritization of ace ideals–hurts the LGBT community. the rhetoric that you can have sex with people you aren’t attracted to to “make it work” romantically is conversion therapy rhetoric. Ace inclusion makes it seem like the LGBT community is about our relationships to sex when that just isn’t true. Ace inclusion means “desexualizing” LGBT spaces so as not to upset asexuals. All this shit AND MORE is happening in real time and I’ve watched it get worse and worse, hand in hand with the commercialization of LGBT pride and the liberalization of LGBT activism.
ace rhetoric is eroding LGBT identities. the idea of the “bisexual lesbian” and other mogai microidentities where you parse every single aspect of your identity into a different label is actively harming vulnerable LGBT people.
and, no, this isn’t me saying “even LGBT aces have to go,” but this is me saying that putting ace identities at the forefront of ANY LGBT discussions leaves a lot of space for harm for LGBT people. and that any fucking ace rhetoric besides ��it’s okay to not feel sexual attraction or want to have sex” comes at the expense of LGBT identity.
genuinely, the concept of “bisexual lesbian” is a direct product of the ace community and it has caused lesbians and bisexual women irreparable harm. and aces should be ashamed of this because this is what they have been defending for years.
this is the EXACT shit we said would come out of the split attraction model and now we have TEENAGERS telling strangers and adults “i’m sexually attracted to [x genders] but only romantically into [y]” and y’all think this is okay. even if it weren’t fucking INSANE to say lesbians can be attracted to men or that bisexuals can be half gay or half straight, you’d STILL be out of fuckng line having KIDS center identities around SOLELY sexual attraction.
i’m ripshit pissed
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oh my god ‘ace exclusion’ ‘q slur discourse’ and ‘bi lesbian hate’ are NOT ‘radfem lite rhetoric’. TERFs do not give a single FUCK about any of that stuff. they care about exterminating trans women. that is literally it. STOP watering down what TERFs are.
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At some point we're going to have to have the conversation about how bi women are just as capable of lesbophobia as lesbians are of biphobia.
And then we're gonna have to talk about how being blatantly lesbophobic in response to experiencing biphobia from a lesbian is not justified.
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sometimes i really fucking hate the way ace positivity posts are worded and it shows that none of you understand shit like. i just saw a post that there are more asexuals in the world than vegans and so people should support asexuals as much as vegans like what the fuck guys???? being vegan is 100% a choice, and a privileged choice at that, and is completely unrelated to sexuality and is something that i do not support at all. veganism is inherently bad. there's no way to be a good vegan. this is due to factors involved in crop rotation, manure spreading, weeding and seeding that can only be sustainable through non-organic pesticides & insecticides OR via spreading organic manure from farm animals.
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Hi everyone. I am so grateful that Tumblr was here for me in my time of need. Not too long ago, I was kicked out of my parents’ house for being a non-binary lesbian.
I come to you today with a fund that I have created in order to help non-binary/trans BIPOC, like myself, who end up in emergency situations (i.e. homelessness, legal funds, medical bills). You can inbox me if you think you know someone who would benefit from this fund or if you, yourself, could use the funds.
So far the fund has only raised $5 and my goal is to raise at least $5,000 for my community. Please dig deep allies and friends alike. Here is the PayPal pool to contribute to below. Please signal boost.
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Hey so uh I hate begging for money but my textbooks cost like at least a couple hundred more than I expected as well as not getting as much financial aid as I hoped for, and my car broke down, so if anyone wants to help out so I can like eat dinner and stuff that’d be great
venmo: @alimkuk00
paypal: alimkuk00
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can i get $57.66 to pay my internet bill ASAP
paypal.me/tradgoth
cash.me/$gothicprincex
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full offense but I’m gonna need medical professionals to shut the fuck up about how “police should be held to the standards we are 🤪”
oh? you mean the ones where you demean and dismiss mentally ill and disabled patients? and patients of color?
you want us to pay you on the back bc you didn’t shoot a person in the head but you’re happy to drug the shit out of a person with psychosis for being upset, deny POC adequate care for their pain let alone BELIEVE them, tell fat people that their serious medical issues are just bc they’re overweight
oh and where you don’t even follow your own mandatory legally binding privacy protocols bc you’d rather make fun of patients on the internet
So no. Even YOU aren’t held to the standards you should and I will not be patting you on the back for your less than bare minimum.
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Y'all made pansexuals feel too welcome and too comfortable
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ok ill say it the demisexual flag makes me so uncomfortable
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