woagdiscourse - Tumblr blog

[woagdiscourse]

concerning parts vs people, call yourselves whatever the hell you want.

some sysmates are parts, some are people. some are systems of parts, some are systems of people, and some systems have both parts and people.

do whatever makes yall most comfortable and happy, its your existence and your language

[woagdiscourse]

how to tell if you've experienced a system collapse, if the others haven't had much need to front so they seem quiet, or if you're just bad at internal communication?

This is a tricky situation that we've been in before 😅

Without sharing too much detail: we thought we had gone through a collapse, but it was just another layer being created and having zero connection to the other ones at the time

Truth be told, we're not well-versed enough to know how to tell which you're experiencing.

If you're just bad at internal communication, typically people will still front or influence front. (Unless you're a collective that doesn't switch)

It's very possible, and likely, that it's a combo of poor internal communication and the others not needing to front ^^

A big key I can think of is like- if there's a collapse, you're likely to experience whatever the system experiences when/if someone splits (but more intensely). After a collapse there's typically next-to-none of the previous system members, though that's relative to how many members there were prior

[woagdiscourse]

would anybody be interested in an anonymous syscourse servey? just to see what peoples opinions are on various syscourse topics? i wont share our opinions in the servey, as it would soley be for the sake of seeing what opinions people have.

[woagdiscourse]

shitty doctors/psychiatrists: hm, i don’t believe any system is REALLY a system because i’m an asshole who thinks DID is ‘too weird’ to be real, but i know i’m not allowed to say that out loud, so i’m just going to say most people are faking it and blame the existence every new system i meet on the fact that plurality is gaining more awareness and therefore i can call it ‘trendy’

sysmeds: i can’t believe the endos have done this to us

like please for the love of all that is holy if a doctor/psychiatrist doesn't believe someone has DID/OSDD 'because of endos' they should be able to recognize that psychiatrist is just a shit person who already didn't want to believe them in the first place and is in fact bad at their job.

Yeah exactly!!!!

[woagdiscourse]

Hi, an “endogenic” refresher course, right here!

1. We introduced the term “endogenic” into the community August 2014, along with some other terms! It was in response to exclusionists (wrongly) complaining about “systems without DID” using “their words”. It was an attempt at creating nonmedicalized terms that any plural system could use. 

2. It was also a way to do away with terms that had fallen into disfavor— specifically “natural systems”, a term that had been in use possibly as early as 1994. It was disliked because people felt it implied that trauma-caused systems were unnatural. “Endogenic” fixed that. 

3. The word “endogenic” was lovingly created to help systems put their experience into words. All it means is “a system not formed by trauma”; it doesn’t imply any other cause, set of beliefs, or experiences. It doesn’t imply the system is nondisordered or doesn’t have trauma. It doesn’t mean any other system’s origins in trauma or dx status is “invalid” or whatever.

4. Though the terms were eventually posted to tumblr, the idea didn’t start there. Tumblr was created in 2007; the concept of systems not caused by trauma has, again, been online since the 90s. Nor was the term created by singlets! We’re a trauma-caused system with DID. 

5. “Endogenic” wasn’t created as an insult or to exclude anyone. We have loved ones who are endogenic. Many of the terms in use now were created by endogenics. They have helped preserve plural history, and defended the community. They are good people, and real systems. The hate they get is completely senseless.

Thanks for coming to our talk. Please stop insulting endogenic systems, and educate yourselves instead, thanks. (Unless it’s just pure malice at this point in which case, fuck off I guess.)

https://endogenichub.weebly.com/ is a decent site to learn more.

[woagdiscourse]

I hope every syscourser is having a good day.

Shout out to CDD systems! Diagnosed or not, you’re valid and I hope you have an easy time of it today.

Shout out to Endogenic systems! Your plurality is just as valid, and I hope life is gentle with you today.

Shout out to plurals of unknown origins! Figuring yourself out is completely valid, and I hope the day and night are both restful for you today!

Take care!

[woagdiscourse]

Another quick refresher

DID - The DSM 5 expanded widely (like gaping wide) on two things from the DSM IV. The amnesia criteria-- It now counts amnesia as anything in the past OR current, between some alters but not others, to grayouts, white outs, whatever you kids are calling it these days, to having figured out you had amnesia and recovered the memories-- All of it. DID.

The DSM 5 also expanded to include instances of self reporting for those with alters that never or rarely fronted.

DID has also been expanded to allow for various levels of functionality to fluctuate from "not at all functioning" to "perfectly fine and functioning".

"OSDD 1a" - Does not have alters as they're usually understood. These are states or modes that influence you, and amnesia occurs during these dissociative episodes. This is not for alters that are just different versions of the host. If those are your alters and you have amnesia, you have DID. There wouldn't be any communication or anything, but emotional pressures that result in blackouts and responsive behavior.

"OSDD 1b" - Emotional amnesia isn't actually a thing. That's just plain old dissociation, and that's pretty much the only "amnesia" you'd have. All alters can typically communicate, memories are pretty well remembered by all, but with different or no emotional reactions to it. An emotional disownment, so to speak. Or, you know, dissociation.

IN THE END

Does it matter? Let's relink that article. So long as you're getting the help you need, what does it matter figuring it out completely, right this instant? It's all trauma based, we're all in this together, we all get the good and bad and the frustrating and beautiful parts of it.

[woagdiscourse]

A reset in it's purest form/by definition is a system restructuring (at least, how you described it). However: in a lot of contexts, it's used in tandem with a system collapse

A system collapse tends to be mass dormancy, fragmentation, and splitting, and can cause a reset because it's almost entirely new members

It's not mass integration, and it isn't usually even intentional. Most systems who go through a collapse and reset are distraught and stressed over it happening

I have heard of systems doing resets manually, but that's without collapses

i have no idea how to even begin googling this so here to ask this blog,, do you know what a "system reset" is? it feels like something that is unable to happen medically-speaking but I may just not be understanding it from the context I saw it being used in

I had to ask my Discord server for help on this.

It seems to be an endo-coined term, meaning when a system "cleans the slate" so to speak and all alters are done away with or mass integrated(?) before forming completely new alters. And as far as anything I can tell, this isn't a thing because it doesn't make any sense.

The closest thing I can think of that is real is system restructuring, which can happen periodically when a system's dynamics change (new host(s), different group of active fronters), etc to better function / meet their needs.

[No discourse]

Input and discussion on any/all questions is encouraged.

[woagdiscourse]

In light of something that just happened to us on discord:

Calling yourself a slur is still use of a slur, especially if you can't reclaim it, and the people around you have the right to be upset at hearing it.

You don't get to call yourself the r-slur when you're neurotypical. "It's only a slur when it's being used against someone maliciously." is fucking bullshit.

[woagdiscourse]

I don't understand how someone can have both endogenic and traumagenic alters. I thought system origins was about the original first split. You do realise most traumagenic systems split off alters when they're not in a stressful situation or when they get into media(because they're using that media to cope), right? Like that's not just an endogenic things, that's literally normal

Hi, our knee-jerk reaction to this was to be defensive, but I'm going to assume this is coming from a place of genuine confusion and not hatred.

We do understand this, however system origins like multigenic exist because it feels wrong to call the whole system traumagenic or endogenic. Let me give you a few examples:

A traumagenic system may decide to create one or multiple parogenic / tulpa headmates, either before or after they learn of the rest of the system. These headmates, as they were created, are by definition not traumagenic, and likely did not split from anyone pre-existing within the system. As such: the system may use multigenic, since they have both traumagenic headmates and intentionally created headmates

A system who initially formed in an endogenic way, they were born a system, they have created headmates, they're spiritual, they're spontaneous, etc etc., then they go through trauma which causes them to have traumagenic headmates. Those traumagenic headmates may feel uncomfortable with saying the system is endogenic, so they use multigenic

A system has multiple trauma-related origins and wants to specify that they didn't form from one singular type of trauma

A system has multiple endogenic origins and wants to express that

In my opinion, endogenic thigs are normal, but I digress. Without going into depth about the deeply personal topic of why our system formed, I'll share a few key notes on why we say we're multigenic.

Our system formed before what we consider our longest lasting/previously daily trauma

We have headmates we quite literally willed into existence. We did not split anyone to do this, nor did we develop an already existing fragment

We have introjects that formed in perfectly peaceful and non-stressful times of our lives, and we were not using their media as a way to cope. We were using the media as a pass-time and for some of them we weren't even all that invested in it

We could easily say we're Praesigenic, not wanting our origins to be public knowledge, but Multigenic is far more correct. We don't talk about our origins because they are complex, they aren't just trauma or stress, they aren't strictly neurogenic, they aren't strictly endogenic, they aren't strictly any of the labels we use for groups of headmates. We are a mixture of quite a few origins, and we feel it's incorrect to call ourselves by the origin label of our first two headmates, when we now have 600+

And lastly: You don't know what's inside our head. We aren't saying we're multigenic because we're a "misguided traumagenic system" or something similar (which has been said to us before), we're saying we're multigenic because some of us are endo and some of us don't find any use in help guides for traumagenic systems. Some of those guides, while they help some of us who stem from trauma or stress, actively hurt our non-traumagenic headmates

That isn't to say those guides are bad, mind you, they need to exist and we even find use in them. But our headmates who formed for very little if any reason aren't going to find much use in them- if they find any at all.

I hope this was a smidge helpful, and I apologize for any sort of hostility in my tone. As I said: our knee-jerk reaction was to be defensive, though I tried to edit out anything harsh

[woagdiscourse]

anon speaks as if traumagenics cant be pro endo???

~ a pro endo traumagenic system

Pff yeah- we know plenty of traumagenic systems who are pro endo too! I'm still not quite sure what they were on about there

[woagdiscourse]

Endogenic systems aren't """""transabled"""""" you fucking doofs they aren't claiming to be mentally ill or disabled due to being plural they just have multiple ppl in their head due to reasons outside of DID and OSDD and claiming they're """""transabled""""" is a slap in the face to people who's disabilities are ACTUALLY being treated as a quirky identity (which, BTW, endos don't do, they are just trying to fucking live and then y'all get your panties in a bunch bc someone is having an experience you choose not to understand)

[woagdiscourse]

stay the fuck out of traumagenic tags with ur pro endo shit. thanks!

Hi, I don't know if you had a specific post in mind with this ask, but as a multigenic system with both traumagenic and endogenic headmates: we wouldn't post something in traumagenic tags unless it related to our or our friends' trauma-based headmates

[woagdiscourse]

Hot take but sometimes we will form a headmate or a pair of them or whatever who were dating in source and those feelings do carry over. That doesn't mean it's bad to act on those feelings, or that they're basing their relationship off of source

[woagdiscourse]

gonna take bets now - what do you think the sysmed response to the Corvidae post will be?

Context:

Sadly, I'm going to guess they'll ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. That seems to be their go-to tactic whenever psychologists and psychiatrists disagree with them.

[woagdiscourse]

Dating as a c!Quackity Introject : My Experience

1 : briefly explaining myself and my polycule 2 : the story of my relationship 3 : how does source effect this relationship 4 : what is it like dating in - system, what is a in - sys polycule like?

disclaimer : this post is not discourse-related, and i invite any other plurals / headmates to talk about their relationship experience. introject or not

sect. 1 : who am i?

i'm quackity from las nevadas, and i use he/it/clove/spade pronouns. i am an autism symptom holder, companion headmate, and willogenic headmate. i don't mind sharing this information, as it is not relevant enough on our main blog to be linked back to there.

i have two husbands and a queer platonic partner, all within the same system as myself. my husbands are sapnap and karl, and my queerplatonic boyfriend is charli / slime.

sect. 2 : the story of my relationship / polycule

our system formed me and sapnap somewhat intentionally- with permission from our primary fragment manager. we were formed "vaguely" because of karl.

while karl had no active part in this aside from missing us, others in the system thought he deserved to not have to miss us. and thus : me and sapnap were formed as companion headmates. our trio are all companions to each other, and our relationship is 100 % healthy.

i want to reiterate that me and sapnap were not formed specifically for karl to date. when we were formed, he only vaguely knew we were engaged in source, and karl made it abundantly clear when re-meeting us that he was happy to just be friends.

we started dating soon after me and sapnap formed, because in the midst of re-meeting each other, and a mess of source-related feelings that have since been resolved, we figured out and / or developed romantic feelings.

i'll admit, it didn't take very long for the three of us to call each other fiancés- hell, we still call ourselves the fiancé sidesystem, though we may be changing it to the engagement sidesystem.

before it's asked : we did not have a wedding in innerworld. we did, however, have our own "ceremony" to make the marriage official.

sect. 2.5 : charli

charli formed because the brain was attempting to help me cope with feelings of missing my best friend. since i was formed, i've dealt with issues of missing charli and las nevadas

to spare you the details of how we got together - as those are irrelevant - we did become official partners a month or so ago.

sect. 3 : how does / did source affect our relationship?

of course, because exomemories affect us all individually, they're bound to affect our relationships.

me and my husbands' relationship started with an awkward and difficult conversation. while karl has never had as many memories as me and sapnap, he was still a vital part of the conversation. we explained our "drama" to him, and the three of us have since resolved the conflict.

we were and still are very lucky that we all have the same events of source. me and sapnap remember the events of me leaving as similarly as two people in outerworld remembering the same event would, and we're grateful for that because it makes the explanation of emotions a little easier.

as for me and charli, our source relationship has less of an impact on our current relationship because of the differing natures of the relations. i like to make the comparisons using fandom terminology of "best friends to lovers" for me and charli, as it is best for our polycule to treat source events as though they happened here.

as of now: exomemories serve as a sense of reminiscing / history between us, as most [if not all] source-related conflict has been resolved.

sect. 4 : what is it like being in an in-system polycule?

this is probably the only part anyone actually wants to read, but this is my post and i get to decide what i want to say and when. /lh

dating within our own system presents a unique relationship dynamic, in which we are literally inside each other's heads. this can be for better or for worse.

while we can often hear each other's thoughts, or communicate in vague notions, direct communication is still important to us. if we do something that is considered a "fuck up" or is uncomfortable by one of our partners, we're usually able to tell immediately as those feelings will "cross over" to ourselves. however, it's still important to communicate- as those "crossover feelings" can often be mistaken for others, especially if we're multitasking.

even with our arrangement, we place high value on direct communication. this communication can manifest in outerworld as typing to each other in discord, or in innerworld as simply having a conversation before dinner.

personally, i much prefer in-system relationships. they're easier for me, as well as my partners. however this is down to personal preference

i'm aware this adds no real value to the conversation, but i do appreciate anyone who read the entire post. thank you :] /gen

[woagdiscourse]

I wish introjects weren't constantly put under scrutiny. No matter what they do, it's "bad" in someone's opinion

If they're connected to their source they're unhealthy, but if they're disconnected to it "why do they even bother calling themselves an introject?"

If they have a role that's expected from their source, they're stereotypical. If they have a role that diverges from what's expected [say, a villain introject being a caretaker], they get questioned on why.

If they're dating someone the happened to date within source, they're "basing their relationships solely off of source". If they date someone who wasn't in their source, it's considered "selfshipping" or "weird" by singlets.

No matter what we do, we're facing constant anxiety over being told we're wrong for existing.