zelodolongirl

[zelodolongirl]

Hi! Love your videos. Have you ever thought about doing a video about why the whole Arthur x Elia ship is bullshit? That no they are not some tragic love story. No, they're not Aemon and Naerys come again or Lancelot and Guinevere. No Rhaenys is not their secret love child. No, they didn't even have an emotional affair and if anything, their relationship was purely professional like how you would treat a co-worker. Or perhaps more accurately how you would treat your husband's bodyguard. Also, Arthur sucks.

Yes agreed, but I think I am biased because I also think Arthur is a scrub and Elia is an icon. However, I genuinely think Arthur wouldn’t like Elia because he is kind of a traditional dude who believes in chivalry in all the worst ways, so I don’t think he would appreciate Elia’s best qualities and I think he would judge her for her worst, not unlike Rhaegar.

[zelodolongirl]

Princess of a dying sun 🌅

Ref and closeup below!

[zelodolongirl]

Queen Myriah with her granddaughters

[zelodolongirl]

Elia Nymeros Martell by watersorcerer

She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit.

[zelodolongirl]

Happy birthday to me 😌✨ no better way to celebrate than drawing my fav for the 100th time <3

The fit’s based off this cunty nun outfit I found on pinterest because. It eats. Idk

[zelodolongirl]

Asoiaf fandom: let's pair Elia with a nice handsome guy who's a knight and will treat her with love and respect.

Baelor Hightower: raises his hand

Asoiaf fandom: no not you, let's ship her with Arthur even though canonically there's no evidence that they even liked each other and he chooses Rhaegar over her and does absolutely nothing to help her or her children because hey, they're both Dornish.

I think they pair him with Lyanna for similar reasons, to sort of make up for Rhaegar rhaegaring by providing a compensation admired!knight love interest in spite of the actual actions of said knight going against the reasonable interest of either character, serving only said rhaegaring Rhaegar.

🤷🏻‍♀️

[zelodolongirl]

Can we also talk about how much of a creep Barristan is about Ashara?

He seems to have kept his infatuation with a woman (young enough to be his daughter and then some) to himself and never made it known or acted on it, so he definitely has that going for him.

Do I think his infatuation is heartwarming? Hardly. The idea that the attention of a 45+-year-old kingsguard would be at all flattering to a "young maiden not long at court" doesn't occur to him, and instead he places her at the center of a "what if" scenario that could have somehow made every single thing better. She is as much of a symbol and object to him as Lyanna was to Robert, and as Catelyn was to Littlefinger. As Daenerys is to Jorah. Or as Sansa is to any of the adult men preying on her.

But - again to his credit - he did keep everything to himself and didn't actually make it Ashara's problem. So. Kudos, I guess.

[zelodolongirl]

Lyanna, Elia, And The Woman Being Important Too

It's hard to know if it's driven by the nature of the story itself or if it's just an unfortunate byproduct of the way that fandom tends to work, but the Song of Ice and Fire fandom often pits Elia Martell and Lyanna Stark against each other as some kind of rivals for Rhaegar Targaryen's love or attention. But with the introduction of Young Griff, who at the very least believes that he is the son of Elia Martell but who very well may be the real deal, the long-term effects of what happened to the mothers of Rhaegar's children seem poised to play a pretty significant role in the story going forward.

One of the prevailing presumptions about Elia and Lyanna is that Lyanna was somehow the chosen one, that she was truly so special and Rhaegar was so genuinely in love with her that even his marriage to Elia and their two children couldn't stop the fated union of House Targaryen and House Stark. And, some particularly bizarre takes regarding the whole Elia/Rhaegar/Lyanna triangle seem to think that Elia may have actually been supportive of Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship because it was a necessity to bring three heads of the dragon back into the world.

But what is interesting about this undeniably odd takes is that Rhaegar Targaryen moved through his own life presuming that he was the main character of the entire story, and fans seem to interpret Elia and Lyanna through that lens as well. They're important to the overall narrative to be sure, but they are just supporting players in Rhaegar's story and the story of House Targaryen. However, based on the actual content of the narrative, it seems like this couldn't be further from the truth.

The notion that Elia and/or Lyanna understood Rhaegar's point of view and were supportive participants in his quest to create three heads of a Targaryen dragon is honestly extremely bizarre. Yes, the contemporary storyline of A Song of Ice and Fire is experiencing a rebirth of magic, but in Elia and Lyanna's era, it appears that mystical power has all but died out.

As readers can see throughout A Game of Thrones, Ned is quite skeptical of the unnatural signs that he sees before him, so it seems safe to assume that Lyanna similarly didn't believe in anything much beyond her experienced reality. Although we know less about Elia, it also seems unlikely that she believes in magic given it's near-extinction in her time. But frankly, regardless of whether or not they perhaps believed in anything supernatural, Rhaegar's belief that he or his children were the literal messiahs of the world was absolutely batshit crazy, and given that he came from a family that was notorious for going off the deep end, there is almost no chance that either of them or any remotely rational person would be willing to sacrifice everything based on Rhaegar's outlandish beliefs.

Lyanna's history with Rhaegar isn't as illustrated as Elia's quite yet, but I sincerely believe that both of these women wound up becoming victims of his astounding delusions of grandeur, and that neither of them were remotely interested in being the broodmares for Rhaegar's super special snowflakes. Because honestly, who would be?

A huge aspect of the fandom perception of Rhaegar's beliefs are actually driven by Jon. Because Jon is so clearly telegraphed as a special and unique character, that automatically lends itself to understanding and believing in Rhaegar's assumption that his child is destined to save the world. But this actually looks like a pretty classic POV trap.

The fact that Jon is extraordinary doesn't mean that Rhaegar's interpretation of prophecy is right, and even if he winds up being correct that Jon is some fabled savior (which seems unlikely anyway), his presumption that Jon is exceptional because he is Rhaegar's son, a Targaryen, or a head of the dragon seems to be demonstrably false. Because, throughout the entire story so far, everything that has apparently made Jon special and extraordinary is his Stark side, not his Targaryen side.

And, although Aegon has only been recently introduced to A Song of Ice and Fire, this interestingly seems to be true for him as well. Yes, he's certainly using his Targaryen heritage as a means of acquiring power and support for his claim to the Iron Throne, but much like Jon, everything in his actual experience and story seems to be all about his mother.

It's curious that so few fans question Rhaegar's narrative given how heavy-handed George RR Martin is when it comes to telegraphing what really matters in this circumstance. Interestingly, Dany has picked up a similar fixation on the idea of finding her other two heads of the dragon, but George has clearly gone very far out of his way to make Jon and Young Griff their mother's sons.

Jon might be named Snow, but it is repeated many times throughout the narrative that he is more Stark-like than any of Ned Stark's trueborn sons, and Arya is the only other Stark child of his generation that comes close to being a Starkish as he is. He's a Northman through and through, he is a warg with a direwolf, he's the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, and he makes allusions to his distaste of any and all things southron multiple times during the story.

While Young Griff obviously can't quite say the same, as he both has the classic Targaryen looks and is at least aware of and directly claims his Targaryen heritage, it's fascinating that George RR Martin has so intentionally made his journey thus far focus on Rhoynar culture, and has implied that his life experience prior to his introduction into the story is much closer to the Rhoynar experience than the Valyrian one. As Lord Varys explains to Kevan Lannister:

He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid.

He has lived as someone who has to survive on the water, he knows what it is to be afraid and hunted, much like Nymeria and the Rhoynar who fled the Valyrian conquest, and he is literally sailing down the Rhoyne in a run-down poleboat when he's introduced to the story at large. Clearly, his life experience seems to be entirely Rhoynish and not at all Valyrian.

But even on an individualistic level, it's fascinating how much Elia and Lyanna seem to parallel each other personally, completely outside of Rhaegar and House Targaryen's influence.

Because yes, they were both mothers to Rhaegar's children, but the actual effect that they had on the world was far greater than just being child providers. Although Elia doesn't get her due for the vast majority of the story, it's incredible how much Lyanna and Elia mirror each other when it comes to the impact that they have on their families.

Obviously Robert's Rebellion was a cataclysmic event for all of Westeros, but it's interesting and incredibly moving to see how much Elia and Lyanna really meant to the Martells and Starks. The Seven Kingdoms obviously doesn't place a lot of value on women at large, so the fact that both of them had such an irrevocable impact on their families is both heartbreaking and heartwarming.

Because Elia and Lyanna weren't just valued by their families, they were intensely and deeply loved. In a world that is generally Machiavellian and brutal, the Martell and the Stark families weren't completely changed because their deaths signified some slight to the respect or power of their Houses, but simply because the loss of them was so painful that their surviving loved ones were utterly incapable of moving on from it. And, although Jon and Aegon never actually met their mothers, it seems like the earth-shattering effect that their loss had on their families is going to have a guaranteed effect on the characters themselves.

It's also very interesting, because although Rhaegar was far from the only Targaryen to believe this, it seems like he saw Elia and Lyanna as a means to his very specific end, and ironically, his attitude towards regarding the two of them being valuable mostly in relation to him will likely be the undoing of everything he thought he was working towards.

House Targaryen has some problematic ideals to say the least. But one of their biggest issues is that both as a group and as individuals, they consider themselves to be more important than anything or anyone else. A pretty consistent theme from the beginning of their reign to their end is that they are destined for greatness, and the cost for that greatness could never be too big of a price to pay. No matter what the collateral damage becomes, up to and including literal wars that result in the death and destruction of countless innocent people, it's worth it because the Targaryens are just too important. They're literally gods among men.

And it's clear that this was Rhaegar's rationale as well. Sure, he likely didn't intend for Robert's Rebellion to happen, but even when it did, he was more concerned about fulfilling his own imagined destiny at any cost rather than actually putting a stop to what was happening. And unfortunately, the apocalyptic importance of Jon and Aegon's existence was a huge factor in his willingness to sacrifice the irrelevant people to protect the relevant ones. But ironically, his narcissism and ego, a Targaryen ideal that was unfortunately passed down to Daenerys as well, is likely why the remaining three heads of the dragon will be rivals instead of allies, and why House Targaryen as a whole will finally collapse.

George RR Martin has directly stated that "the woman is important too" within the text of A Song of Ice and Fire, and he has reiterated that idea many times over with most of his characters. Whether it's Catelyn or Cersei, the importance of women within the narrative and the impact that they can have on their own children is massive. So, to assume that Jon and Young Griff's status as Targaryens is what really matters about them is a massive mistake that the author has repeatedly cautioned the readers about making.

Jon and Aegon might both be Rhaegar's sons, but their maternal family seems to be the much stronger influence on who they are as people. And although they will undoubtedly be very important players in the story, they almost certainly won't be playing the role that Rhaegar imagined for them when he willingly put Elia and Lyanna in danger in order to bring them into the world.

[zelodolongirl]

What if Cersei did indeed marry Rhaegar? Cause I don't think they would have been happy despite what Cersei thinks and sooner or later she's gonna realize that Rhaegar is not how she imagined him.

She wouldn't be happy at all. Rhaegar's priority will remain the prophecy. I know some people think Cersei would be able to give Rhaegar his 3 heads easily unlike Elia but

Elia got pregnant immediately each time. They got married in Jan, she gave birth in Sept. He saw a comet, went to Elia (who was either on bedrest or had just left bedrest) and she got pregnant immediately. Cersei isn't infertile and she did take moontea whenever Robert raped her but Joffrey was born 2+ years after her wedding. We have no evidence that Cersei drank moontea every time she and Jaime had sex (including the morning of her wedding). I'm not comparing their fertility for fun, I'm just saying that there will be a lot of pressure on Cersei to get pregnant on Rhaegar's bizarre timetable before he starts entertaining the idea of seeking someone else. Elia had to deal with racism and xenophobia from Aerys as well and I doubt Aerys would be very forgiving towards Tywin's daughter. So if Cersei takes a year or longer to get pregnant (which is normal, fyi the reason Elia is super fertile is because GRRM compressed the timeline of the events leading to Robert's Rebellion), she'd be dealing with Aerys' hostility and Rhaegar's wandering eye

Elia was declared infertile after giving birth to Aegon and almost dying (or at least a third pregnancy would kill her). Most people blame this on her 'delicate health' and Cersei, being a healthy young woman, would easily avoid this to give Rhaegar his 3 required kids. Here's the problem - Elia's chronic illness isn't why she couldn't have a third kid, it's Rhaegar impregnating her back to back on whims of his interpretation of an old prophecy. Elia almost died giving birth to Rhaenys. She was on bedrest for 6 months. She was still in recovery when she got pregnant again because of some comet. Then months later, she was in Harrenhal getting humiliated in front of all of Westeros (the noble houses that is). Of course, Aerys was present suspecting treason which must have been fun for his Dornish daughter in law whom he hated. She then travelled to Dorne to show her daughter to her family before returning to Dragonstone. That's a lot of strain on the body, even for a healthy woman. Once she gave birth, almost dying again, her husband plucked at his harp sadly before leaving to impregnate a teenager. That is just not an environment conducive to having healthy pregnancies and births. Cersei would be subjected to similar stresses, even if she gets pregnant quickly or takes a year or two because the people she'll be dealing with aren't rational or empathetic

Plus, Cersei would be a teen bride. If she married Rhaegar soon after Steffon's death, she'd be 12 or 13. If she marries him when Elia did, she'd be 14. Rhaegar was 22 in 280 AC. Aerys isn't going to wait for Cersei to grow up. Rhaella gave birth for the first time at 13 after all. So we have a teenager giving birth back to back (which will wreck her body and likely give her fertility issues like Rhaella) or we have a teenager under a lot of stress to give birth as quickly as possible which will lead to health issues or the same thing happening to her - Harrenhal then Robert's Rebellion

What if Cersei has twins? There's a chance that could happen. What would Rhaegar do if his third child comes out with a twin? What if she has a miscarriage? What if she takes years between each birth?

I can't imagine in such an environment that Cersei wouldn't grow to hate Rhaegar

[zelodolongirl]

Not to mention how creepy he is about Ashara Dayne who was probably young enough to be his daughter.

Rhaegar: a grown ass man who's melancholy and obsessed with prophecy and whose actions lead to war and the subsequent fall of his house.

Barristan: my man! What a good guy he'll be the greatest king there ever was.

Viserys: an extremely sheltered but otherwise normal little boy.

Barristan: evil! He's a lost cause, he's too tainted by madness to save!

See, he served that one guy and wasn't fired by him before he died so he's 100% awesome. But he chose not to desert after Robert's pardon to go serve Viserys, so he needs to believe he had a good reason for that. So Viserys was always a monster even as a 2nd grader.

I swear to mango, I lose more respect for Barry every time I think about him. He is such a hypocritical prejudiced lump of vanity. I am honestly impressed how many flavors of fail!knight GRRM can come up with that are all reasonably distinct.

[zelodolongirl]

Girlies ✨

[zelodolongirl]

Loved your analysis on the Greenbriar princesses, can you do one about Eldred, Taniot and Val Moren?

Eldred greenbriar, val moren, and taniot analysis!! Spoilers for tfota trilogy!!

thank you sm! and yes, gladly!

there is not very much about these characters (particularly taniot) but i’ll do my best!

eldred greenbriar, son to clovis greenbriar, and grandson to mab greenbriar. val moren is his lover, and taniot is his consort and mother to dain greenbriar, eldreds 3rd born child and 2nd son.

madoc says that in eldreds youth/younger days, he was a bloodthirsty sort of king, and that he did not allow “little fiefdoms” like he in his elderly years.

as for his personality, i sort of imagine him as this wise, wary of life, old perv (LOL sorry) even tho i’m sure that’s not accurate. i just find it hard to imagine him having so many consorts (oriana,liri,asha and undoubtedly more) in his elderly years. either bro was a silver fox (ik he has corn colored hair but still a dilf ((or perhaps a gilf) is what i mean) or consorts are simply indifferent to his age, and want to please their king (or gain some status or power, like asha)

he has 6 children, which for a faerie, is a LOT. jude says that most faeries don’t ever even have children, so obviously we can assume that he gets around a lot, or atleast he certainly did in his youth.

another note, and this could be nothing but i like speculating abt when he first started having children (but i overanalyze since faeries cannot lie and so everything they say must be taken literally) but he calls balekin “child” which could refer simply to the fact that yes, balekin is his child, or that balekin is significantly younger than him, and hasn’t reached that “adult faerie age” (whatever age that is) or (most likely) that balekin is acting like a child LOL.

he gives all of his consorts who bore him a child a string of emerald necklace (sugar daddy vibes, also another reason as to why he could have had so many consorts/ lovers)

it is to be noted that there is a difference between lovers and consorts, being a consort is like a job, whereas a lover isn’t really a status, more like a fling or a string of flings (which is what asha was. not a consort)

anyway, when cardan is born and him and baphen (the star prophet guy) go to see him, baphen tells eldred that cardan will be a menace pretty much, so then and there eldred just don’t gaf abt cardan.

“looking upon prince cardan was like looking at an uncertain future, so eldred avoided it” (not word for word but prologue of qon.

he was prob looking for a reason to cast him out cardans entire childhood, which is probably why he didn’t listen when cardan denied his killing of val morens lover.

we know that eldred had orbs that contained memories of his children in their youth, in one of them contained dain, elowyn and rhyia shooting apples, baby balekin, and another that contained baby cardan being neglected and learning from his mother that the only way to get attention was to hurt. apparently he cherished these memories, i can’t think of any other reason he would have kept them, except if they were gifts.

from the orb of cardans abuse, we can assume he probably has this really twisted outlook of family, that he doesn’t gaf abt cardan, and only views his children as political opportunities. seems like he probably only kept having kids bc 1, he needed an heir, 2, they were accidents, 3, he prob kept having them (and not getting rid of them the way dain did) to try to have as many options for a high ruler replacement and 4, again, the political advantages of having children that can charm the princess of the undersea, and etc.

now, we know he had laws in place to protect mortals to an extent, unfortunately we don’t know the details but we can assume they probably weren’t that great since mortals are treated like garbage more often than not BUT madoc says a lot of mortals are also treated well (coins in their pockets and such) but madocs idea of well is yk pretty iffy.

lastly, dain and his influence on eldred. we know dain was slipping eldred small amounts of poison to make eldred seem like it was his time to relinquish the throne to him, and we know dain was manipulating him into thinking all of his other children were out to get him and that he couldn’t trust them, (doesn’t sound that hard to convince him since balekin was doing that as well as dain) so dain must’ve had some dirt on caelia or rhyia that he shared w eldred (won’t go into that i already did a dain analysis 😭) but to me, it sounds like eldred was weak and desperate to just die already, or as the fae say it. “seek the land of promise” so he was willing to just believe it and let dain be king.

as for him being a father, the way his children tiptoe around him, the way they do as he says, and the way caelia protected him on dais, i believe his children grew to see him as weak, but were always too afraid to speak against him, and maybe just enjoyed the spoils of being royalty. this is just speculation, but it seems like there is a lot of manipulation and neglect on eldreds part obv, toward his children. based on a lot of factors, like how eldred threw cardan out of the palace, then expected him to be a proper good prince at dinner time when he was older, and the way caelia seemingly wanted his favor very much (see my princess analysis) etc, it seems like the relationships with his children are very hot and cold, he can favor them one second then throw them out the next. also the fact that he is high king, so he probably didn’t take the time to raise them himself and left them to a midwife, the mother, or just on their own.

as we see in tpt, rumors and little things affect cardans and oaks relationship very much, and eldred learned to distrust all of his children bc of dain, so we can assume that he didn’t think very well of his children, and didn’t have good relationships with any of them besides dain.

unlike the rest of his children, dain took advantage of eldreds growing weakness, seeing as dain had balls enough to start screwing his consort and to start poisoning and manipulating him.

moral of the story, eldred seems like a feeble old man, who is an abusive, deadbeat asshole, who only sees his children as vessels into political advantages. as for when he was younger who knows. maybe one day holly will write a short story about him(def not gonna happen).

onto val moren, val moren says that in his youth, eldred rode up to him on his horse and whisked him away to faerieland (kinda hot i would go too) but only after some serious manipulation. val moren says that he was so taken with him, that he would’ve burnt down his own families farm and mill just to have eldred touch him again. typical faerie x human stereotype ig

so they were lovers. eldred made val moren promise to renounce his humanity and act like a faerie for the rest of his life, which he agreed to do (sounds like grooming to me!) and then became his seneschal down the line.

also down the line, val moren had a mortal lover, and when dain killed that lover and framed cardan, val moren lost his mind and went mad with grief. years later he still blames cardan and “glares at him across the dinner table” according to cardans novella lol. poor guy been thru it

now at the dais, val moren is forced to crown balekin, and he’s all afraid, since his sugar daddy is freshly dead, killed by his own son. and now that eldred is gone it’s sorta like the one faerie that sorttaaa had his back and took him away to faerie land and probably like hand fed him berries or smth, isnt there to protect him anymore.

it’s also sad that he thinks that cardan killed his mortal lover and now balekin, who is like the older eviler version of cardan in his eyes, is killing his lover again.

after he is seneschal, and jude has replaced him, they have a little mortal heart to heart, except not rly. “i was fully grown when i came here” yadda yadda yadda! he don’t like jude and he offers shitty faerie advice, then pities her when she’s all like “but eldies dead now! u don’t have to keeep acting like u ain’t got no humanity babe! our promise don’t mean shit!” bc ig he thinks that any human that lives amongst them oughta renounce their humanity too bc he prob thinks it’s the only way to make it, to survive living w them.

and he’s all like “damn i feel bad for u! never make a promise w those sneaky faerie fuckers! not a sexy one, not a funny one, not a small one or large one, and def not one that sounds pretty good!”

then later on says to jude “learn to juggle better than i did” which was referring to his job as seneschal, but i also included the fact that he has to juggle being eldreds lover, seneschal, lover to a mortal, all while trying to act as though he no longer had any humanity. then he went bat shit crazy w grief so there’s also that he had to deal with.

so yeah. he seems AWFULLY wary of faeries and their crap, and while it also seems he loved eldred, it seems a lot like a very painful sort of love.

i do think it’s sweet that he had a human lover despite renouncing his humanity, shows that faeries too can love humans.

now onto taniot. if you do not recall, taniot is dains mother, who i believe is only mentioned and shown once and it’s at her death scene. sad. now, taniot, being dains mother, the future high kings own mother, you would think that she would be well cared for and def not sacrificed at all.

wrong!

taniot is the 3rd to die on the dais, as balekin shows the crowd what it means to be lover of the high king, to be a pawn on the kings chessboard. to be used, and once fulfilled their duty, cast off the board.

before her untimely death however, she attempts to save elowyn, by staunching elowyns wound with her dress. then as she’s about to be killed, she clasps her hands together and in jude’s monologue, “goes to her death gracefully as though she has already passed onto the realm of death.”

she definitely saw this coming i would say. she probably knew what a monster she birthed, and if not that, then she knew what it meant for her to have borne the king his second son.

upon rereading her death scene, dain dies before she does, so maybe she loves dain enough to not see life as worth living without him, which explains the graceful, accepting way in which she dies.

since dain is 3rd born, she’s pretty fucking old. she’s probably seen the deaths of many lovers and consorts, perhaps knew of the cause of liriopes own demise, and definitely saw how asha was thrown into the tower of forgetting.

it sounds to me like she was tip toeing around eldred since bearing him a child. it’s almost like the things that have happened to other lovers and consorts are like warnings to her and the other mothers of the greenbriar family, perhaps to keep them in line.

it makes me wonder if a similar demise would’ve happened to oriana if it were not for madocs position. (i’m gonna make a short analysis on this bc it’s rly interesting to me!)

it’s like jude says in tcp in her monologue, “even the high king would find it distasteful to have your son take your place in a lovers bed.” i wonder if eldred were greedy, and killed lovers similarly to how dain killed liri, despite the different circumstances, perhaps eldred found it upsetting to see his consorts move on, and so he simply rid of them so as to not bear the humiliation of it. (though i know faerie isn’t quite like that, how everyone pretty much screws each other without a care, things are different for a king)

but yeah! poor taniot, poor val moren, and screw eldred tbh! he’s revealed to be an asshole even after his death, so damn!

anyway thank u for the ask! i rly like doing these, even if i am just screaming into the void, it actually helps me during my rereads, just to understand the character a little better!! 🫶🫶

sorry for how messy this is!

[zelodolongirl]

Found this theory on reddit that says Viserra was actually trying to run away on the night that she died and Jaehaerys covered it up, you think this is true?

It's interesting and imo not out of the realm of possibility.

we know jaehaerys lies about the fates of his daughters already to save face!

we have no outside sources for what happened beyond the crown's version.

we don't know the names of any of the men who are with her and you would think that jaehaerys and alysanne would have like, exiled them or something for going along with a scheme as stupid as "let's drunkenly race on horseback" but we have no idea what happened to those guys.

she was only with men which isn't necessarily weird but it is weird that she was partaking in the nonsense with them. alysanne says tviserrra would pit her boys against each other, but she was too sly to ever fuck around with them so it is kind of weird that she was racing with them. drinking? that makes sense. but racing? seems a bit out of character when we know she was much more proper than, say, alyssa.

again, i think there's certainly something being covered up here that jaehaerys doesn't want The General Public To Know because itmakes him look bad. it could be that viserra, like saera, was trying to run away and simply failed at it.

[zelodolongirl]

What do you think each of the Greenbriar princesses were like?

Greenbriar princesses analyses, what they may have been like, according to their short page time. spoilers for the trilogy ofc! not tpt or tsh

oh man this is gonna be a long one LOL but thank u sm for the ask!! i think a lot abt them! i’ll go in age order, so elowyn, rhyia, and caelia

but before that, holly black stated that at least one of the princesses could be good at going for the blood crown. which could mean nothing but i’ll speculate abt it! (1st pic)

firstly elowyn. despite the fact that she’s 2nd born, in a short story by holly black centering a cute sprite “the lament of lutie loo,” elowyns courtier and also lord roibens sister ethine, states, “elowyn has no interest in playing at politics”

now about her character in general. we do not get much of her at all, (but we get the most of her out of all the princesses) except when jude says that elowyn finds her at the end of a revel and returns her to oriana, “like a misplaced jacket” later jude says that she wondered if oriana worried abt what would happen if madoc had found out of her mistreatment among the folk (he would probably go on a killing spree) which makes me wonder if elowyn was also aware of madocs temper, or simply has experience with short tempered powerful men (which is like half her family, the poor thing)

we also know that dain says that if balekin were to wed her, balekin would get a knife in the front. jude is surprised by the statement since she thought elowyn was the sweet sister.

dain and balekin are both assholes, but balekin let’s elowyn party it up at his house(which is sad since he kills her so effortlessly)(seen in the lament of lutie loo), (which could mean nothing since it’s shown that the siblings still have to pretend to like each other in public) BUT it also makes me wonder if elowyn had some sort of falling out with either her father or dain or perhaps both.

she’s 2nd in line. ahead of dain. unless eldred is a misogynist and doesn’t want a queen ruling (which doesn’t make sense since his mother AND his grandmother mab were the high queens before him. making him the first high KING.) therefore either it’s like ethine says and she has no interest at politics or she fell out of favor, which probably had something to do with dain since he did the same to cardan, and also bc of the quote below (3rd pic).

next her influential circle. the circle of larks, those who enjoy music, and the arts. larks is a two meaning word. larks are a type of bird (which could be an ode to her animal trait, despite her being yellow/golden skinned with green hair) and it also means, in simple words, a fun game. elowyn is seen with a lute in her hand often. so we can assume shawty likes to party it up. which seems like typical faerie behavior.

in the same short story, balekin says that it wouldn’t be the first time for the circle of larks and the circle of grackles to mix it up and party it up w one another, so we can assume that yk elowyn likes to get down for a good orgy or wtv! ( 👅 )

again, she’s seen in the short story at hollow hall partying it up, so perhaps she likes balekin more than dain (which makes sense) since dain pushed her out of line and favor, making their father distrust her and the rest of her siblings.

but anyway, based on fact based speculation, she seems like a cautious sort of faerie, wary of her shitty family and wanting to just enjoy music and art and the occasional debauch. it’s noted that balekin kills her first on the dais, probably bc besides dain, she was his biggest threat.

then of course, the iconic princess rhyia. iconic? well she gave cardan that alice in wonderland book that vivienne gave her (which shows she’s probably not the best friend since she’s giving away vivis childhood heirlooms of sorts) which makes cardan go even more feral for jude lol.

she is also seen in taryns novella, giving taryn and vivi some love advice, “love is greedy” i’ll attach a pic below (2nd pic). she seems like a carefree sort of faerie, one that gives out vague but insightful advice.

while she doesn’t have a circle of her own, she’s a huntress, preferring a moonlit hunt on horseback over a drunken revel, which sounds a lot like dains circle of influence, the circle of falcons.

we know she is viviennes friend. in “the lost sisters” she finds the mortal world filthy (can you blame her), despite her finding cardans disgust for mortals amusing. it seems to me she doesnt take a lot of things seriously. like her position at court. she’s a lot like vivienne in that way, not showing up to family events sort of thing, which makes sense why they’re friends.

BUT, jude states that rhyia could possibly knight her, or ask her to join up with her, which is what jude desperately desires. so i could be wrong abt her not seeming to gaf since jude obviously wants to be chosen by her, or maybe she just thinks it’ll be easiest to be chosen by her.

but her death scene stuck out to me. she preferred to kill herself then make balekin king. which could mean that she could be an eligible greenbriar for becoming the high queen. the action itself shows so much bravery, to just kill yourself on the spot, no hesitation, makes me wonder if she accepted death long ago, simply because she was a greenbriar born alongside bloodthirsty brothers.

her overall personality seems pretty relaxed, enjoying life, and being positive about it. cardan likes her the most out of all of his family, which says a lot. she is also very kind to him (her pushing his hair out of his face was such a cute scene), and kind to taryn as well.

lastly princess caelia. we get the LEAST of her out of all of the princesses, she had a bit more than the small amount of page time in htkoelths when nicasia first came as her death scene. sad.

anyway, she’s not mentioned a lot at all, which leaves room for speculation, like maybe she’d be good at scheming toward the throne. it’s possible since during her death scene, she nobly steps in front of her father with a small knife from her bodice, to protect him.

caelia also rushes to nicasia upon seeing cardan converse w her(lol) bc she thinks cardan will insult her, and she also wants princess nicasias favor. having a princess of the underseas favor is important according to balekin, since the greenbriar to be nicasias buddy will oversee that the treaty is stable and be in eldreds good graces. (i have to say, being eldreds child seems like a full time job.)

this is very small, but i found it worth mentioning, that caelia “claps and cheers wildly” when it’s rhyias turn at the tournament in the first book. she seems to care about her family a lot, she is willing to ignore cardan to remain in favor with her father, it seems she views cardan as this ticking time bomb ready to ruin things (which tbh is how he acted in the 1st book so)

now onto her death scene, which was very sad, she steps up to be the only one to think to bring a knife on the dais, (smart) and the only one to defend her father. she is also the only one to step up to offer to crown balekin(not that there were many options) although she doesn’t want to, she’s smart enough to attempt to spare her own life. as for covering her wound as though it were immodest, i just found that sad, and in character for a princess whom very badly wants the favor of her father and wants to be shown as strong and powerful (rather than showing weakness) in front of the court. she was an eligible ruler to the very end.

as for her personality, she seems like a very loyal, dutiful daughter, maybe even good sister(just not to cardan, though it seems she simply tiptoes around him so as to not lose her fathers favor) who plays the role of a princess whom wants to be queen very well.

this one took a day or two, since i had to go digging for every little scene lol! but it was very insightful!

feel free to add on!! and send me more asks 🫶

[zelodolongirl]

You know when you think about it Rhaegar really is a big loser. Like he goes into his first actual battle wearing armor with rubies like some entitled douchbag and loses, badly.

[zelodolongirl]

The Misperception Of Tywin Lannister As A Brilliant Badass

One of the most interesting aspects of the Game of Thrones and Song of Ice and Fire fandom is the perception of Tywin Lannister. Tywin largely seems to see himself as an incredibly intelligent, capable, important, and exceptional person, and the fan view of him seems to match up to his sense of self quite directly. He's often considered to be one of the biggest badasses in Westeros and one of the ultimate masterminds of the game of thrones, and he's also seen as a brilliant military strategist and a pragmatic political leader. And it's fascinating, because in reality, this perception seems to be wildly off base, and seems to go directly against what the author was likely trying to say with his character.

It's hard to ignore the obvious gender bias that seems to be going on when it comes to the broader fan view of Tywin. Frankly, if any of the female characters did the things that he does, they would be regarded as foolhardy, vain, cruel, and downright idiotic in most instances. But that point of view actually makes considerably more sense than the belief that Tywin Lannister is the most brilliant and brutal man in the Seven Kingdoms.

The notion that Tywin is some master tactician is a truly baffling one. Yes, he has defeated his enemies consistently, but truthfully, if the only means that someone has of winning is slaughtering every single person who might stand up against them, then that's not exactly impressive strategy. It could hardly be called a strategy at all. The Rains of Castamere is obviously an ode to the most legendary moment in Tywin Lannister's history, at least prior to the Red Wedding, but that entire incident is actually incredibly informative about him as a person in a lot of clearly unflattering ways, so it's odd that it's seen as some kind of accomplishment on his resume.

Tywin is an interesting character, because one of his latent but occasionally very prominent personality traits that has been a presence since he was a child is his tendency to overstep his bounds in socially inappropriate ways. For instance, when his sister Genna was betrothed to a Frey, he speaks out on something that is probably factually correct, and says that it's a very uneven betrothal that seems to disfavor the Lannisters. But he's still a young child, and publicly criticizing his father's match is incredibly abnormal (not to mention incredibly ironic considering who Tywin's ultimate allies would end up being). However, this is not the last nor the biggest time that Tywin will take things further than he should, or is even allowed to.

This tendency to go beyond his assigned boundaries clearly rears its ugly head once again when it comes to the confrontation with the Reynes and the Tarbecks. Yes, both houses are taking advantage of Tytos' weakness, but Tywin was acting out of turn by making demands of these houses at all, and he was taking things to a seemingly exceptional extreme by demanding that they send a hostage in lieu of payment if they couldn't repay the debts that Tywin very abruptly came collecting on, even though he wasn't really in a position to be asking in the first place.

When the Tarbecks unsurprisingly deny Tywin's request and the current Lord Walderan Tarbeck comes to confront Tytos about what is already an extreme demand that has been made by someone who isn't even the Warden of the West yet, he is taken prisoner by Tywin. Once again, Tywin has elevated tensions to the maximum for no reason other than that he thinks the Lannisters, or rather he himself, is deserving of more respect than these people are giving him, despite the fact that he is literally factually incorrect in this instance. And in response, the Tarbecks take some Lannister hostages as well.

When he gets involved, Tytos essentially undoes everything that Tywin has done, exchanging the hostages and forgiving the houses' debts, likely because, to be frank, Tywin doing what he did is actually an outrageous affront to standard protocol. He went so far beyond the bounds of appropriate behavior that it's actually astounding, and he did something to one of Tytos' subjects that was at best an unimaginably shitty social faux pas, and at worst something that may have actually been illegal for him to do. But Tywin is dissatisfied with this outcome, so he pushes things even further.

He bids the Reynes and Tarbecks come to Casterly Rock to answer for the supposed crimes that they committed, despite the fact that everything they've done has either been a response to Tywin's insanely over-the-top provocations or a response to what the actual Lord of Casterly Rock, Tytos Lannister, has consented to. Essentially, Tywin is accusing them of false charges of treason because they listened to their actual liege lord instead of him.

Understandably, the Reynes and Tarbecks tell him to politically fuck off and renounce their loyalty to the Lannisters, which leads Tywin to raise an army without his father's permission and sets off the notorious utter demolition of both of their families at his command. It's very interesting to examine this legendary incident in detail, because it actually reflects incredibly poorly upon Tywin and makes it seem like he was completely unhinged while the Tarbecks and Reynes were mostly in the right. Yes, they almost certainly took advantage of the fact that Tytos was a weaker ruler, but he was still their ruler, and they deferred to his word over Tywin's just as they should have.

Tywin's behavior in this circumstance was just about as extreme as it possibly could have been, and this is how he was willing to act before he even became Lord of Casterly Rock. But what's even grimmer about the entire scenario is that it seems like Tywin was very intentionally provoking them in the hopes that he could get the reaction he wanted and therefore would have the thinnest excuse to slaughter them all. He pushed them far beyond what any self-respecting House would be willing to accept, even if he had been their actual overlord, and regardless of his father's actual commands, he kept on pushing until he seemingly had the tiniest opening to destroy their entire families.

As far as both political and military strategy goes, Tywin's behavior when it came to his most legendary decision was straight-up deranged. It's entirely understandable that he scared people into submission, because he breached all standard protocols, escalated the situation to the greatest extreme that he possibly could, and did something that no high lord of Westeros would do in hardly any circumstance, all before he was even a high lord. It's not hard to see where Cersei gets her political strategy from, but it's also not hard to see that this is objectively an absolutely terrible, idiotic way of handling problems or attempting to earn an intimidating reputation. Not to mention, it doesn't exactly take an astounding amount of political acumen to realize that if you treat someone like the dirt on your shoe, they're going to react badly, so the fact that Tywin essentially backed them into a showdown by being repeatedly obnoxiously insulting isn't particularly impressive.

This actually puts Tywin's relationship with Aerys in an interesting light as well. One of the main reasons that Aerys was impressed enough by Tywin to make him his hand is because of how brutally Tywin dealt with the Reynes and the Tarbecks, which once again says a great deal about Tywin. If someone like Aerys is charmed by your thirst for violence, then you clearly have anger issues. But there's another valuable insight into their dynamic that can be offered through Tywin's earlier behavior too.

Although Aerys was the king, while Tywin was his hand, people would jest that he was the one truly ruling the realm. Aerys unsurprisingly took that very badly and reacted violently towards anyone who would make the suggestion, but based on Tywin's earlier behavior, Aerys was actually probably in the right for the first and last time in his entire life.

Aerys' paranoia was legendary, but if Tywin was comfortable acting out in the way that he did when his father was still lord and he was merely his heir, then the likelihood that Tywin majorly overstepped the boundaries of what the hand can or cannot do seems almost certain.

Much like the Targaryens, Tywin seems to have been born with an enormous sense of entitlement, and he seems to have believed that he was more fit to rule than anyone else from a very early age. But, while he was apparently an effective administrator during his time as hand, his outrageous overreactions and completely unmasked ambition for the Iron Throne's power completely tanked his goals for years.

Aerys was known for being mercurial on his best day, so when Tywin made it readily apparent that he wanted to be Westeros' regional manager instead of assistant to the regional manager, it again shows how easily he lets his arrogance and pride get in the way of his own desires.

By all accounts, until Aerys started thinking Tywin was getting too big for his britches, they had a good relationship. Had he played his cards right and not tried to outshine Aerys, then Cersei could have ended up on the throne with Rhaegar and Jaime may have never been accepted into the Kingsguard. But his lack of self-control and inability to rein in his ego nearly cost him both the throne and the heir of his dreams. Again, it's hard to see how Tywin could be considered some master politician when he was put in a position of incredible opportunity but couldn't even hide his conceit to the point that he went from the king's hand to the bottom of the Westerosi totem pole.

Pride is a very interesting thing when it comes to Tywin as well. Because he clearly fears humiliation and embarrassment more than anything else, but he also loves using humiliation and embarrassment as a weapon against others. It should come as no great surprise that he would use the most painful thing he could imagine in order to hurt others given Tywin's personality, but again, anyone with legitimate political acumen would recognize that adding literal insult to injury will make any potential reconciliation in the future exponentially more difficult. Tywin objectively values the ability to hurt his enemies more than he values resolutions to the actual problems, which makes him a genuinely terrible leader. And unsurprisingly, this continues to be a problem for him right up until the very end when he goes to war with the Starks.

One thing that immediately jumps out about the way in which he dealt with the Reynes and the Tarbecks is that it was his first legitimate foray into war, and he crushed that rebellion and metaphorically salted the earth where the Reynes and Tarbecks once stood. And of course, it's not hard to see the parallels between these destroyed houses and what Tywin did to the Northmen at the Red Wedding.

And similarly, in the events leading up to these massacres, Tywin intentionally provoked his enemies by attacking the Riverlands as soon as conflict was afoot. Although the Riverlords were barely involved in the situation at all, Tywin inflicts extreme violence on Catelyn's home because she arrested Tyrion for a crime that she legitimately believed that he may have committed, or at least had a hand in. So again, reacting with over-the-top violence purely because Tywin doesn't think anyone should have the audacity to question him or any Lannister is an unfathomably weird and thin-skinned way to take a problem and make it into an exponentially bigger one. It's also very interesting that these incidents parallel each other so clearly, as it says a great deal about Tywin as a person and as a leader to see that from his first act of martial dominance to his last, he handled everything in the exact same way. He was barely more than a boy when he crushed the Reynes and Tarbecks and nearly an old man when he went up against the Starks and Tullys, and in all of that time as a leader and ruler, he learned nothing and likely willfully ignored lessons that would have made him a more effective politician specifically because throwing a tantrum and lashing out at any perceived slight was more important to him than crafting a legacy that would genuinely last.

And sure, it's hard to deny that his decisions were effective in the short term, but the fact that a young man who had hardly been in a confrontation before seemingly learned and changed absolutely nothing over an entire lifetime of political maneuvering does not reflect well on Tywin's intelligence or military prowess, and as evidenced by the state of the Lannisters now, they won the short term battle but are going to lose the war.

The Red Wedding will undoubtedly go down as one of the most notorious incidents in Lannister history, but it likely won't be remembered in the way that Tywin wishes it would be. Yes, he killed the King in the North, and yes, he momentarily crushed the rebellion. But let's not forget that the Red Wedding was essentially a hail-Mary pass that Tywin attempted because he was getting outmatched and outfoxed by a naive and inexperienced boy who was barely older than Hannah Montana. That certainly doesn't speak highly of his abilities as a commander, and again, Tywin cares more about image than anything, so he almost certainly wouldn't do anything that would make him look as bad as the Red Wedding does unless he felt like he had very few choices left.

But on the other hand, his behavior in the Red Wedding is interesting both because of his impressive lack of insight and his incredible hypersensitivity. Because he undeniably arranged the slaughter of the Northmen and Rivermen as a flex to make himself look strong. So the fact that he doesn't understand how this action will actually be perceived by most people is weird, and really shows his fundamental misunderstanding of how other people work. Or rather, it shows that he doesn't seem to see other people as actual people in the way that he sees himself.

In order to actually ensure his victory, he had to align himself with the least respected and least trustworthy houses in the North and the Riverlands, and he created a scenario where, once again because of his unfathomable brutality, he would forever be facing rebellions so long as the Lannisters tried to keep control of both of those kingdoms. But he did it anyway because he cares more about respect (or the fear that he mistakes as respect) than he does about actually getting the job done or making his life or the lives of everyone in Westeros run a bit more smoothly.

But, control over the kingdoms is yet another issue where Tywin seems to flounder and make political moves that do not seem beneficial in the long run. And that doesn't just apply to the military actions that he takes in order to force others into submission. Take the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion, for instance.

On the surface, Tywin's logic behind forcing his child hostage to wed his son makes some sense, but in the broader context of the political situation in Westeros, it's really a terrible move and shows how obsessed with image and the perception of power Tywin really is. Because after the Red Wedding, there is essentially zero chance that the Northmen will accept anyone with Lannister blood as their ruler, ever. They are so universally loathed that any Lannister who sets foot in the North shouldn't expect to remain breathing for very long, and that obviously applies to Tyrion as well.

Theoretically, offering Sansa up as a marriage match to another house or even to a distantly related family who doesn't bear the surname Lannister, especially when the Lannisters are so wanting for good allies, probably would have been a much more useful move in the long run. It's a bit of a risk because allies can always turn on each other, but given that there is literally no chance that the Lannisters can hold the North, then arranging a marriage that takes the heat off of them but allows them control of Winterfell in everything but name likely would have yielded much better results. But as everyone knows, it's all about the family name with Tywin.

Because in the end, Sansa's marriage to Tyrion isn't really about political expediency. It's largely about dominance and humiliation. He would rather let the world know that he managed to seize control of a 13 year old girl with the surname Stark than do what would actually benefit him in the bigger picture, because he's truly that desperate for the world to perceive him as the baddest dude on the block. And, he seems to be so convinced of his own importance that he doesn't seem to acknowledge how easily this could backfire on him and the rest of the Lannisters. He is both obsessed with intimidating everyone else, but also apparently believes that he has actually achieved that goal so well that no one would ever dare move against him no matter how horrifically he sinned against them. It's fascinating, because Tywin likely did have it in him to create a lasting legacy for House Lannister if he just got out of his own way long enough to make that happen. But his belief in his own inherent superiority was so strong and overwhelming that he consistently and willingly dragged himself down, either simply so that he could project the image that he wanted the world to see, or so that he could drag his enemies down with him.

But, the fact that Tywin genuinely believed that he was going to be able to put a Lannister on the Iron Throne and create a new royal dynasty from his bloodline shows how much insight and intelligence he was truly lacking. I mean truly, the proof is in the pudding, the fact that he thought he was leaving behind a legacy that would last a thousand years when the strength and power of House Lannister collapsed as soon as he did demonstrates an astounding lack of understanding regarding the political situation in Westeros. And it's pretty poetic that it seems almost guaranteed that the children that Tywin left behind will ultimately be the end of his branch of House Lannister.

Ironically, the only political and military abilities that Tywin seemed to have were what he would consider low cunning. He knew how to press people's buttons and could easily predict that people would react badly if he went completely nuclear on him, but his complete inability to empathize or appreciate other people's feelings caused him to make a great number of huge, obvious mistakes that prevented him from succeeding in his goals. And, the very fact that he thought he had won the Iron Throne for House Lannister and didn't seemingly have the comprehension to realize that the minute he was gone, House Lannister was going to collapse both from the inside and the out, really demonstrates that his perception was so drastically different from reality that he was basically delusional. In the end, Tywin Lannister was essentially good at administration, terrorizing people into submission, and not much else. But ironically, Tywin's desire to be seen as powerful and intelligent crippled House Lannister far more brutally than his weak and easily manipulated father Tytos, and Tywin's obsessive desire to rehabilitate the image of House Lannister led to the immediate near decimation of his family and name.

[zelodolongirl]

"Was Elia Martell Beautiful"

It must have been the madness that led Aerys to refuse Lord Tywin's daughter and take his son instead, whilst marrying his own son to a feeble Dornish princess with black eyes and a flat chest. (Cersei, chapter 24 of “A Feast for Crows”)

Here is a character who Take romantic desires for the Dragon Prince, which is rejected and chosen elia instead of her to be his wife. even after her death, Cersei still holds the grudge

But somehow this quote is taken as canon, This is illogical. Depending on Cersei's personality, I can say that she is either lying or exaggerating

Well, here comes my problem. This quote is often taken to say that elia was less than ordinary but she was not beautiful or on the list of beauties of Westeros.

((As a reminder, I am against evaluating women based on their beauty but I am trying to clarify my point))

This list of beauties contains women who were rated less beautiful than elia according to the books. However, elia is ignored in such rankings. Common reasons are the health condition and this quote.

Even when you search on Google, this quote is the most common answer to questions about what elia looked like.

And then you find this :

there wereothers fairerstill.One was the wife of the dragon prince, who’d brought a dozen lady companions to attend her. The knights all begged them for favors to tie about their lances. (Bran, chapter 24 of “A Storm Of Swords”)

Howland Reed is one of the characters who doesn't have any direct ties to elia, So through this quote, Holland describes elia martell's appearance during the Tourney of Harrenhal, probably she was pregnant with Aegon. From this we confirms she was beautiful enough to get all of his attention, despite the presence of many beautiful women during the tourney, most notably Ashara Dayne. elia was beautiful for him to tell his children about her beauty.

In “The World of Ice and Fire”, Maester Yandel compares Lyanna to Elia, stating the she-wolf was "a wild and boyish young thing with none of the Princess Elia's delicate beauty"

Ulmer, stooped and grey-bearded and loose of skin and limb, stepped to the mark and pulled an arrow from the quiver at his waist. In his youth he had been an outlaw, a member of the infamous Kingswood Brotherhood. He claimed he’d once put an arrow through the hand of the White Bull of the Kingsguard [Ser Gerold Hightower] to steal a kiss from the lips of a Dornish princess. He had stolen her jewels too, and a chest of golden dragons, but it was the kiss he liked to boast of in his cups. (Samwell, chapter 33 of “A Storm of Swords”)

This princess is elia, and she is very beautiful. Where men don't take pride in kissing an ugly woman if she was ugly he would make fun of her appearance and show remorse or disgust. Instead, we get a proud, unrepentant man.

Elia is described in the books as an attractive woman who caught men’s attention. (It seems she doesn't look ugly or ordinary woman)

“….. a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia’s companions … though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab.”-Barristan Selmy

Ashara Dayne was known as the most beautiful woman in Westeros so being compared to ashara is just another factor that shows how beautiful elia was

She get called "delicate beauty", Sansa Stark beauty called the same. and sansa is beautiful so elia was.

According to all this, elia was extremely beautiful. It is unfortunate that her beauty is belittled and ignored under the pretext of her health condition. condemning the actions of some women is not misogyny, but belittling a woman because of her health condition and using it as an excuse to exonerate her husband’s abandonment of her is certainly hatred and racism.

And saying that rhaegar left elia and chose lyanna over her because she was more beautiful is just a slander that contradicts the facts It based on an idea invented by men to justify his betrayal We have a perfect example of this "Charles chose Camilla over Diana"