#anti barristan selmy

[agentrouka-blog]

Was Barriston lying about Viserys showing signs of mental illness at a young age? Cause while we all know how he turns out he seemed like a fairly normal kid and Daenerys remembers him being a good brother to her at one point. It's only after where they are forced to sell their mother's crown that he truly loses it.

Hmmm.

Well, let me, a known Barry-hater, try and state my opinion on his credibility as a source.

She turned to Ser Barristan. "You protected my father for many years, fought beside my brother on the Trident, but you abandoned Viserys in his exile and bent your knee to the Usurper instead. Why? And tell it true." "Some truths are hard to hear. Robert was a . . . a good knight . . . chivalrous, brave . . . he spared my life, and the lives of many others . . . Prince Viserys was only a boy, it would have been years before he was fit to rule, and . . . forgive me, my queen, but you asked for truth . . . even as a child, your brother Viserys oft seemed to be his father's son, in ways that Rhaegar never did." [...] "Why ask for truth," Ser Barristan said softly, "if you close your ears to it?" He hesitated, then continued. "I told you before that I used a false name so the Lannisters would not know that I'd joined you. That was less than half of it, Your Grace. The truth is, I wanted to watch you for a time before pledging you my sword. To make certain that you were not . . ." “… my father’s daughter?” If she was not her father’s daughter, who was she? “… mad,” he finished. “But I see no taint in you.” [...] “So I am a coin in the hands of some god, is that what you are saying, ser?” “No,” Ser Barristan replied. “You are the trueborn heir of Westeros. To the end of my days I shall remain your faithful knight, should you find me worthy to bear a sword again. If not, I am content to serve Strong Belwas as his squire.” (ASOS, Daenerys VI)

Barristan Selmy is entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to question the worth of his judgment, if he'll pronounce madness in a boy who was maybe seven years old the last time he saw him, and younger than that the last time he saw him with any sense of regularity. We're talking about a kindergarten-aged little kid.

But in the same breath, he claims the Targ heir who abducted Lyanna Stark, hid in a tower in Dorne for most of the Rebellion and then went and badly lost the only battle he ever fought, was not "his father's son", a.k.a. not dangerously mad.

And then goes on to swear undying loyalty to the teenaged girl who has last been seen ordering people burned alive or killed for wearing a tokar (aged 12 and up!) or crucified by the dozens. Because he sees "no taint" in her.

Convenient, isn't it?

Yeah, sure, Barry.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

What do you think will be Barristan Selmy's endgame in the books?

I believe he’s dying in Westeros; I think the show killed him off too early, but then again they hadn’t built him up as a POV and the members of the Kingsguard as a dysfunctional brotherhood. There’s setup for the Kingsguard being split between rulers and that as a source of drama in AFFC and the Dance of Dragons, and that’s only going to be fully important if Barristan takes part in the wars for Westeros. He vowed to find the true king and die in his service and promised he won’t fail Dány like he failed the other Targ monarchs, so just like narrative foil JonCon he’ll be unable to keep those oaths (just like Jaime Lannister, whom he hates). Whether that means she’ll die before him, or she will dismiss him/execute him for disloyalty is anyone’s guess. But a man who sees himself more as a weapon to point than someone taking a stand against tyranny isn’t getting a happy ending.

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

i am reminded once again that people are so weird about rhaegar.

it’s interesting but nauseating to see the shift about him on the anti-rhaegar side of the fandom as it’s clear that people are still wildly and crazily deep in their fanon versions of him, but have decided he’s somewhat useful to them as the fandom becomes less accepting of the ‘targaryens are bad and all mad’ narrative that was floating around for years, so some of the antis have slightly changed their tunes.

i should clarify that the shift does seem subtle right now, so maybe it’s not going to affect the way the antis discuss rhaegar that much, but i find it interesting and a bit annoying so im gonna discuss it.

the shift is basically starting from ‘rhaegar was a moron and killed his family by fucking his whore so he deserved death’ and seems to be heading to ‘rhaegar was secretly really cunning and cruel and actually loved elia but she was iffy/neutral of him and he only got with lyanna to have a baby and left her to die cause he was always gonna go back to elia.’

both of these are crazy interpretations imo, but the second one is even worse than the first. the first interpretation is at least a tad bit understandable, but the second is completely based on fanon land nonsense.

because… how is rhaegar seen as cunningly cruel when he’s only been paralleled with dany and jon, two incredibly kind characters? one of the first times dany is directly paralleled to rhaegar is when dany was protecting others! while we do learn a lot about rhaegar through these parallels, there’s also an on page interaction that completely contradicts the ‘rhaegar is cruel and callous’ interpretation. it starts when jamie is recalling rhaegar’s departure to the trident, he remembers when jon darry snapped at him, telling him to obey and stay with aerys; then rhaegar takes the time to console a teenage jamie and ease his worries before he leaves. we have all this and yet people interpret this character as cunningly cruel and willing to use others for his own ends?

like bsffr… this is a character who prefers writing songs and singing them instead of violence and the song of swords. that says a lot about rhaegar, and it’s all good things.

speaking of good things said about rhaegar: barristan as whitebeard, when he was still sussing out dany, calls rhaegar able, determined, deliberate, dutiful, and single-minded. these are all positive descriptions. barristan also later says that there’s a lot of good to be said about rhaegar, more than any of dany’s other relatives. this is not the description of someone hiding a nasty personality behind a perfect facade, it’s a deliberate set up preparing us readers for the big rhaelya reveal and to contradict roberts anti rhaegar propaganda.

i also want to mention the other side of rhaegar. he was described as melancholy and was said to have sad eyes, and according to cersei he looked wounded. it seems like he suffered from depression. and based on the parallels between aerys and viserys, i think it’s safe to assume that aerys was likely abusive to rhaegar like viserys was to dany. what’s written in a world of ice and fire supports my case and shows that things were always very very tense between rhaegar and aerys. things were so tense in fact that aerys even brought varys in as spymaster partly because he mistrusted rhaegar. that is a very terrible environment for someone to grow up in, and yet rhaegar still pulled through so much so that characters still sing his praises years after his death. that’s impressive and shows how good of an impression he left on so many characters.

now, i also want to discuss the rhaegar x elia ship as it’s getting more popular as the tides keep shifting. one quote that these shippers use to support their ship is the “rhaegar was fond of elia” remark made by barristan, but the context of that conversation is specifically left out by these shippers. basically the conversation began when dany is telling barristan that she’ll do her duty and marry hizdahr, so she asks barristan if rhaegar wed for duty or love. barristan hesitates and tells her that rhaegar was fond of elia but says nothing about love. context is key here. and while it’s not surprising that these shippers need to strip away the context as they have to go up against rhaelya, which has a lot of textual support, it is deceitful and proves that their case is weak in compassion to the build up of rhaelya.

anyways… yeah… this shifting tide is weird af and seems like a huge backwards dive into fanon land, and while i can’t control anyone i think i’ve done my best to stay true to canon by mentioning what we know about rhaegar and trying to keep my interpretations grounded.

tbh… i don’t even like this character that much, but i think his impact on the fandom is so cool. cause it’s like… here is rhaegar, a sad boy, and yet so many people treat him like he’s satan incarnate responsible for everything bad. it’s like so wild and so far from what little we know of him. so, basically, because of this fandom discourse, i became interested in this character and am now one of his defenders. yeahhhhh….

also, because so many people liked to basically shit on rhaegar for ‘doing nothing’ and ‘just letting war break out’ i found it kinda fun to theorize about what he may have actually been doing at the time of the rebellion. as of now, i’m pretty set in my belief that he specifically went to dorne to conspire with house martell and potential allies in order to overthrow aerys. my theory is based on what we know of his personality, and i think his last words to jamie clearly hint that he had some sort of plan in place; and since he was last in dorne, it’s only logical to conclude that there was something going on.

that’s all

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

https://www.tumblr.com/radicalsansa/739060101195907072/if-youre-looking-at-hotd-through-a-medival

😨

How exactly does GRRM want us to look through a "medieval lens"? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when we're watching underage girls be married off and suffering marital rape? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when soldiers rape and pillage innocent smallfolk? Does he want us to look through a medieval lens when tyrannical kings are supported just because they took the throne?

GRRM's books may take place in a medieval-esque world, but that doesn't mean he wants the audience to support the atrocities normalized by a medieval society. He uses his setting to criticize the actions of the medieval world.

He uses Daenerys' campaign against slavery to show the monstrosity of the slavers and those who stand by allowing it. He uses Sansa's treatment by Joffrey to show the hypocrisy of the order of knighthood and medieval chivalry. He uses Jon's treatment in Winterfell to show the harm of bastardphobia. He uses Arya's time among the smallfolk to show how the petty wars of lords impacts the people. He uses Brienne's life to show the damage the patriarchy does to non-conforming women. He uses Rhaenyra's story to show the far-reaching harm to the world the patriarchy causes. He uses Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister to show the dangers of blind loyalty to a king.

We the audience are not supposed to justify a character's actions just because it was normal for the time. That's like justifying Thomas Jefferson's owning of slaves because it was the norm for rich men in Colonial America. We are supposed to be horrified with the world's treatment of people who don't conform to it. We are supposed to feel angry at the normalized and rampant injustice. We are supposed to acknowledge that, while the books (much like the world) are filled with people who do the wrong thing, the characters are not all equally bad.

This post was deleted since I started writing this a few days ago (so sorry it took me so long to finish this answer), but the gist of it is that TG is right because of the medieval standards of Westerosi society. In the case of Rhaenyra, like I said earlier, GRRM uses to Dance to show the damage of the patriarchy and male primogeniture. The dragons are wiped out because of TG's greed and sexism. The realm suffers thousands of deaths because the greens couldn't stand a woman, a non-conforming woman no less, to take the throne. GRRM doesn't want us to just nod along and say, "oh that's fair, after all it is normal for the time :)". No, we are supposed to see the injustice of the situation and the harm that injustice causes.

[notfeelingthyaster]

i have Opinions™ on barristan defending rhaegar's love of "his lady lyanna", based on the fact he was attracted to an 25 to 30 years younger woman-

[agentem]

I don't watch Derry Girls since I don't have Netflix. But sometimes people in my timeline post gifs of it and when I see Ian McElhinney, it makes me happy.

He was Barristan Selmy on Game of Thrones. I love Barristan Selmy. He's Bran's favorite knight. He saves Dany with a stick.

He also got killed by the producers of the show, and I like to know he's still alive somewhere because it means the show is wrong.

Don't ask me to expound on this logic. There isn't much.

[horizon-verizon]

Master Post of Anti-Criston Cole-ism

He was Never Raped or SA-ed

A) [HotD] HotD's Episode 4, from the Actor and Writers

i)

🔗LINK to Entertainment Weekly Article that Describes Frankel & Writers Making this Scene Consensual Sex Scenes where Criston "Chooses" to Forget his Vows

Neither of these reveal that either the actor nor the writers or directors wrote the sex scene to be something Criston was afraid of or didn't want. The way it's talked about, with people "discovering" each other and themselves shows consent and enjoyment. Frankel wanted to play out his fear of Criston's own desire to break his own vows and facing the guilt of that; Rhaenyra never pressured him into anything.

REMINDER: He's still not "commonborn" nor Dornish, since:

he has a last name, which peasants don't have AND his father/house is House Cole, stewards of the Dondarrions...the Tyrells at one point were stewards to House Gardner in the Reach & they were still nobles of that time, stewards don't mean full fledged "servants"

Blackhaven is in the Stormland part of the Dornish Marches, not the Dornish part of the Dornish Marches...Samwell Tarly's family's castle is in the foothill of a part of the Dornish Marches, ....Barristan Selmy's family's castle, Harvest Hill, is based in the Dornish Marches in Stormlander territory, so is Barristan Selmy Dornish? Cole is a Stormlander!

Marchers hate Dornish people more than other nonDornish Westerosi do...Criston said his dad was a steward of the nonDornish Dondarrions...HotD has never shown us whether either of his parents are Dornish by origin so what proof do we have he is Dornish even in the show?!!! And we see no discrimination (hint or overt) the court has against Cole...

lets' say that Cole was Dornish...the Velaryons are black and realisitically, even rich Black people do not manage to avoid subtle racial discrimination (there's a black woman on TikTok from a wealthy family that talks about it, idk her name)...so if Criston faces racism and the Velaryons don't either the writers are incompetent or don't know racism

Not only is this a misreading of what the Dornish Marches are on the HotD writers'/producers' part, it's a misreading or understanding of race either in medieval times or the modern day, AND people have tried to use a supposed racial disparity b/t Rhaenyra (Valyrian-Targ princess) to argue that Cole (the racially-inferior) felt racial pressure as well to comply to sleep with her and avoid censure or punishment if she blabs...as if his race would give him the right to sleep with a teen girl who some have argued was also very drunk here-- even if Criston was Dornish!

ii) [HotD] HotD's Episode 4, from the actual Episode

People don't know what SA or rape actually looks like...can we just, please?...

B) "If the Roles were Reversed" [HotD AND the Original Story]

i)

Rhaenyra didn't "make" him do anything b/c she doesn't have the ability to take on that new level of risk. So much protest using the "if the genders were reversed", and yet no acknowledgment or breakdown of what their respective unique positions are.

A male heir =/= a female heir in terms of power and privilege, gender really matters even here, as every source on the matter--whether HotD or the original story--has made every single minute to point out and emphasize...the only reason we are even talking about the Dance is that it was a group of people arguing that no woman should go before a man inn any line of succession which comes from the belief that women are inherently insufficient military leaders. And female chastity is a whole concept in of itself where the woman/girl must be sexually "pure" as to ensure that a man's and his family's lineage remains "proven" to be inherited by someone blood-connected to them. To preserve that wealth and privilege. etc., within that family. Female chastity - female "obedience" or submission to male supremacy.

Women could never be knights so they can never be Kingsguard.

Brienne is not a knight...yet[?], and she exists YEARS after the Dance; even if there were female monarchs before, check out real history for how medieval people regarded female rulers if they didn't happen to be very "good" ones...I mean just check out Juana I of Castile!

We can never equalize these situations in matter of gender because this society structures on the inequality of its genders.

A World of Ice and Fire shows us glaring examples of women over men being brutally sidelined or physically attacked to make way for male leaders or candidates (Shiera Blackwood, Agnes Blackwood, that unnamed Lannister woman who had to marry a non-Lannister man so he could take her name just so he could lead the Lannister house instead of her, Argella Durrandon, Marla Sunderland); Fire and Blood has a bunch of girls raped, mutilated, SA-ed or sexually manipulated so the men can inch their way towards power or to just feel in control (Cassandra Baratheon, Lucinda Penrose, those Tumbleton 8-year-olds, the septas, etc.).

Making as if sexual violence against men or just general violence against men is treated the same, as frequent, and socially justified as violence against women and girls both in real life and in the ASoIaF/HotD/GoT universes is disingenuous. As long as we live in a society where enough people think a woman's body is never totally her own, it never will be.

ii) Let's play with this "Reversal" Anyway:

a) We already see Rhaenyra-Criston in the version of her approaching him...

In F&B, we already have one verison of what happened b/t them in Mushroom telling us of a situation of Rhaenyra approaching Criston and Criston denying her, with no material consequences for him...and he freely decides to hate and try to destroy her anyway ("A Question of Succession"):

Even IF Rhaenyra approached Criston and in this way, she does not go to Viserys to ruin Cole or do anything else to him. She sleeps with Harwin instead. And why doesn't she go to Viserys to fuck Criston's life up? Bc he has been her trusted guard for ages, but also because of what I say below in section b) below and i) above.

Reminder, Viserys in both the show and book forces Rhaenyra to marry Laenor, and book!her explicitly is rumored to say she wanted Daemon. She faces censure or punishment, not Cole.

Show!Rhaenyra has also been "friends"/friendly with Cole for years; what reason do we have to expect or fear that she'd complain to Viserys? How much does Criston really expect Rhaenyra does, since he's the said friend in her "confidence"?

b) Occam's razor

Since women cannot be Kingsguard in Westeros, the female-Cole would either be a lower-ranked noble woman or she would be like Jonquil Darke, the female sworn-shield of Alysanne Targaryen (who still wasn't part of the Kingsguard). JD was also a Darkling bastard.

It's so very unlikely that even if female-Cole become the guard to young/older male-Rhaenyra.

That's inconceivable to these people. Why would the probably already-sword trained male-Rhaenyra need a personal female-guardsman when they'd have an actual Kingsguard knight (still all male) as the male-Rhaenyra's guard before a female warrior is ever considered? This is the mindest of these royals and nobles, btw.

And again, Jonquil was the protector of Alysanne, not Jaehaerys. But Jaehaerys did use Jonquil to stop Saera from running away, and this proves that Jonquil's "final boss" is and always has been Jaehaerys, aka, the Monarch, not the person she was protecting. If a male-Rhaenyra approached a female-Cole (but not a bastard) who was a sort of Jonquil Darke person, even with that female-Cole being well-versed in swordsmanship or anything physical to defend herself, the social consequences of that woman sleeping with a royal man while not being married to him is still as real and worse for her than for him. She'd be less willing to fully engage with him and dread the consequences of his growing angry with her.

What if female-Cole was just a regular noblewoman, either ranked high from a prestigious family/Great House (Starks, Martell, Hightowers, Lannisters, Manderlys] or from a lower ranked or not-as-prestigious and influential family (Tarlys, Selmys, Boltons, Wyls)? And male-Rhaenyra took a liking to female-Cole but didn't want to or expect to marry them?

Because female-Cole is a female noble and had grown up knowing that women & girls are socially condemned for actually practicing sexual autonomy, they'd be much more cautious and vulnerable to censure in either scenario:

If the female-Cole was from a more prestigious or "Great" House, male-Rhaenyra wouldn't as likely approach them unless they thought they'd be good for marriage because that house is powerful and important enough to put some pressure on them IF they ever found out. An affair is very possible, and depending on female-Cole's age and assessment of her own abilities and worth growing up female, we don't know whether they'd be willing to pursue a true consensual affair with male-Rhaenyra without there being a hope or guarantee for marriage. Because, like Lysa Tully, they still run the risk of tainting their family/house' image and face punishment or abuse from their own family if such affairs were made public. (If I have to explain Lysa Tully to people, they either forgot what happens b/t her & Petar Baelish or never read the bks, and if the latter they should not speak on anything to do with any character in things like this that requires lore knowledge AND some objectivity. Or they don't see what happened to her as "a big deal"...) Still, there is room for her to not want the attention because women are not a monolith of the exact same personalities or circumstances for us to believe every single woman would go for a real affair regardless of there being a desire or expectation of marriage. Thus what I describe below for lower ranked women/girls still counts. If anything, the stakes can be said to be higher because her family's prestige or power is so high that they could also take the path of blaming her. Therefore, a woman/girl of this group could still feel cornered.

If female-Cole came from a lower/less prestigious house, male-Rhaenyra is more interested & likelier of pursuing an affair or making female-Cole their paramour/mistress. Same situation, but the girl has even less reason to believe that there would be a marriage bc her house' rank/prestige/powers are so low for a possible marriage to the future King. She'd have to be either be mentally incapacitated (Priscella Hogg), under another immense pressure, or very young to believe that. So in this case, there is a stronger likelihood that if she sleeps with male-Rhaenyra, it's because she was cornered or felt she couldn't avoid him and had no assurances to avoid him later on. Or that he'd later feel slighted and begin rumors of her in court and her reputation gets ruined either way.

in either case, because male-Rhaenyra is a man while female-Cole isn't and men are far more likely to use physical force to intimidate or push a woman down then the reverse; men on average feel entitled to women's bodies' and attention, what more a royal prince like Aegon & Aemond? (I didn't use these examples by accident: that 12 yr old "paramour" Septon Eustace informs us and Alys Rivers)

And male-Rhaenyra would be the heir, still. There would be no doubt against male-Rhaenyra because she'd be male, male leaders are credited their deserving to rule armies by being male. His path to ascension is clearer than what real-Rhaenyra currently and will have to face. Male-Rhaenyra has no reason to even be all that secretive with female-Cole if he did intend on making her his paramour & he thought he'd get away with just making her his paramour...which is most likely a woman in a much lower "rank" or of a family with much lower powers than some others. Yes, Viserys would say that he is acting "unseemly", he could be called stupid or reckless, and some lords and ladies would think he's acting too licentuously...but no one would begrudge or hate male-Rhaenyra long for extramaritally/premaritally sleeping with a woman of any origin as to say they were a "whore" or try to use this as their primary reason be shouldn't be the next King. The "new" greens don't as much shit to stand on. They'd look silly(ier) for actually using this as a reason to say he shouldn't be King.

Female-Cole has little to no leverage against a male-Rhaenyra in the specific moment of a sexual cornering bc there is simply more risk for her than for him based on their respective genders AND ranking. We can't separate the two, they will inform the other.

Cole-Cole has more social leverage than a woman actually corned by a male higher-ranking noble/royal bc Rhaenyra-Rhaenyra's reputation can be ruined a lot easier than a male heir's. In any iteration, female-Cole rather than Cole-Cole has more risk & pressures in because women are given less grace in events where it's known they extramaritally/premaritally sleep with a man. Because she's already side-eyed or doubted to be a capable leader or worthy, censures against her lack of practicing female obedience and chastity would make her seem less deserving of the throne and give her enemies more fuel to fire their own agenda.

Again, this hierarchical feudal society is built on making gender, class, etc. essential differences that grant individuals privileges over others.

Finally, Criston Cole, his relationship with Rhaenyra, AND their sex /how it happened cannot be compared to a modern-day boss-employee-relationship/sexual harassment sort of sex-reversed MeToo! situation. Viserys is, as many have said on both camps, Criston's real and unequivocal "boss". Really, this whole argument then diminishes what actual SA is and the MeToo! movement's focus on holding mainly male professional superiors accountable for willfully using their positions to assault those under them.

The writers trying to make Rhaenyra the one in with more psychological control over Criston when canonically there' isn't much evidence to support that is very suspicious.

Reasons to Hate Cole

A) Show/House of the Dragon

i)

Let's really think about Criston's suggestion to run away and marry.

The guy said this in episode 5 of season 1:

I've soiled my white cloak. And it's the only thing I have to my fսck¡ng name! I thought if we were married, I might be able to restore it.

Criston's logic reveals he's more concerned about retaining his own sense and perception of his honor and not "honor" in general bc running away to elope would bring great disgrace to both his and Rhaenyra’s families & houses. Not just Rhaenyra herself. If it is Rhaenyra's "duty" to marry Laenor, she would be breaking her vows to become Queen. If she runs away, she arguably broke her vows to "protect" the realm from the Others as by her and Viserys' conversation about Aegon's prophecy. Cole may not have heard this from Rhaenyra, but he didn't want to hear anything from her because all he wanted was for her to go along with what he wanted, not to actually listen to her any misgivings she may have had.

He looked at marriage as a way to "bring back" a sense of honor for himself. Vows hold "sacred" honor. Criston is trying to distance himself from the very idea of freely and willfully “soiling” his cloak by trying to "replace" his brken vows with new marriage vows.

Remeber, he consented to sex with Rhaenyra, so it was his willful decision to sleep with her and "soil" his own "cloak". The writers and the actor, again, both work in the understanding that Cole "chooses to lie with Rhaenyra" [top of this post].

Criston absolutely knows that she can't marry him in the usual, open way and still retain her position as heir or even as part of the royal family. He's asking her to abandon her entire family...let that sink in. It shows a gender disparity that does not justify "if the roles were reversed". Lower-ranked-Female-Cole would never and could never hope to convince the male-Rhaenyra to run away with her and start an entirely new life, abandon both of their families (for marriage specifically) bc he doesn't have to in order to marry her. He may lose some people's respect if he marries her, but the consequences for him versus a female heir are not the same. A female heir would have to run away & not be among other Westerosi nobles, become a peasant, etc. to marry someone like Cole. *EDIT (3/17/24)* Example: Prince Duncan and Jenny of Oldstones. *END OF EDIT*

He was attracted to her, but his main motivation was to escape the shame of his soiled cloak and soiled honor. That his honor is actually a lie, a made-up thing in itself. That he, himself, soiled it and thus he, himself, has made himself a liar.

ii)

He has been living in court being Rhaenyra’s personal guard for years. Some of us thought that he should have known that nobles largely do not follow the same rules that excuse their positions through rumors. That they withhold and lie to protect themselves. (And generally, humans are wont to try to bend their own rules to satisfy their own desires.) 

And so we think that he should have done the same--patiently withhold information and observe what happens so he could adapt to it--while Alicent was getting to ask if Rhaenyra had slept with Daemon, and not if he slept with her.

It may not be faithful to one's vows, but if he actually knew what kind of person Rhaenyra was--that she would never run away with him (as he should after so many years of being with her and thus I think he did know but asked anyway, this he never really cared about her but himself)--then he should have never brought up the suggestion of running away or thought she'd ever marry him. What exactly did he think would happen for him after sleeping w/her? And as I argued, he had much more choice than some may think and took advantage of it. As nobles often do.

And yet, he decides that Rhaenyra is responsible for what he freely chose for himself AND what he could have easily avoided as a man/Kingsguard and her being female. And he does so so he can avoid accountability. Rhaenyra is much less likely to be able to & doesn't want to, once again, "make" him do anything with her. And Rhaenyra does not control Criston Cole's conscience nor his penis nor his reasoning.

Occam's razor again.

iii)

He decides to take it out on the Velaryon boys, as clued by what happens in the training yard of episode 6. It's obvious he refuses to treat them similarly to the green princes and train them at the same level. He's also much more physically rough with Jace than with either green boy. Finally he presses for Aegon to get more violent than necessary against Jace, clearly taking pleasure in vicarious revenge against Rhaenyra.

He's a loser who uses children's pain to inflict his own frustrations. And no, "illegitimate" children are not less human than "trueborn" ones.

B) Fire and Blood (The Original Story)

These are the versions of what happens b/t them, Septon Eustace's vs Mushroom's ("A Question of Succession"):

Really, alinahams already tackled this HERE, so check them out.

Excerpt:

In both versions, Criston is never involved with Rhaenyra in any way. Both versions take care to mention how it was all about Rhaenyra's choices about her life and body that bothered Criston and made him hate her. It's never about Criston being used and discarded. That is what makes Criston an Incel and a villain. Rhaenyra never did anything wrong to him. She didn't do anything to deserve his life long hatred and betrayal. It was his own twisted madonna/whore complex that ruined his friendship with Rhaenyra.

Criston decides to make it his life mission to destroy Rhaenyra because he couldn't handle her making her own decisions, bc honestly even if she (a 16-17 yr old) had decided to try to seduce him as Viserra did with Baelon...did Baelon hold it against Viserra or say that she was a whore or try to condemn her or get back at her for daring to "disturb" him in his grief over his dead wife, their sister, Alyssa?

Even with Baelon being a prince to Criston's Kingsguard, we see that both Viserra & Rhaenyra were desperate to have some sense of control over their own bodies through sex--and for Viserra through a marriage to a more powerful man--because it is through sex and marriage that their entire autonomy is being taken away or suppressed. And some in this fandom have argued that Viserra was bad or amoral for trying to seduce Baelon in his grief, and some have even said she was trying to take advantage of him! But does Baelon think this way or try to "avenge" himself on her? No.

Why try to ruin her and her kids' entire lives? Once more, Rhaenyra, even in Mushroom's version, does not ever complain to Viserys or try to ruin Criston. So....

[cowboysanddragons23]

Debunking Rhaelya shippers' arguments:

-"Dorne doesn't frown on polygamy.": Dorne is very sexually liberal in many things, but polygamy is not one of them. They are still a class society (ex. Oberyn would never marry Ellaria even though he genuinely loves her, Quentyn Martell was a virgin and Arianne would never marry Daemon Sand.) and polygamy is illegal under the eyes of the Old and New Gods and since Jaehaerys I outlawed it and for a very good reason.

-"Elia and Rhaegar had an agreement about his affair with Lyanna." "Elia would have been ok with Rhaegar going with Lyanna." "Rhaegar took Lyanna as a second wife along with Elia.": Elia would have never agreed to Rhaegar cavorting with Lyanna, because that would be giving her enemies a recently sharpened sword to murder her and her children, as she knows that the cause of the Blackfyre Rebellions was the anti Dornish sentiment towards Myriah Martell and her son Baelor. Also, Maegor was the last Targaryen king who attempted enforced polygamy having a dragon and even he couldn't make the Faith bow. Rhaegar has no dragons to inspire obedience.

-"Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love." "Rhaegar and Lyanna was a love story." "Rhaegar would have been a great king." "Rhaegar would care about Jon." "Rhaegar and Lyanna could have been a great king and queen.": There is no evidence that points out that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, aside from the testimony of Barristan Selmy (who was never at the Tower of Joy, thus he doesn't know what truly happened). Rhaegar was Summerhall made flesh; obsession with prophecies, grandiose plans to save the world and willingness to sacrifice women into its altar. He took Lyanna because he wanted to prove that the prophecy that led to his birth was real and that the sacrifices his family made were worth something. Whatever fondness he had for Lyanna, his Third Head of the Dragon always came first. Rhaegar and Lyanna wouldn't have been good parents to Jon, because the former would give up on him from birth because he isn't the Visenya he wanted and the latter would be too young to be a mother (Viserys II and Larra Rogare everyone?). And besides, thousands died for it and the same happened when Duncan Targaryen married Jenny of Oldstones (who are exactly the romantic love story Rhaelya is erroneously interpreted as). Rhaegar is too obsessed with prophecies and Lyanna is utterly disinterested in ladylike pursuits.

[atopvisenyashill]

How would asoiaf characters react to being teleported to our modern world?

characters i think would adjust mostly okay:

catelyn stark - imagine a catelyn who actually gets to use her intelligence as like, a lawyer or something. i'm weeping right now.

sansa stark

arya stark

jon snow - you can’t tell me this man wouldn’t get to the modern day and not immediately throw on a “this is what a feminist looks like” shirt unironically

brienne of tarth

arianne martell

doran martel - get this man a dietician so he can manage his ailments dammit

oberyn martell

asha greyjoy

theon greyjoy - first of all, get this man some anti psychotics but second of all, theon is the definition of “he should have been at the club”

joncon - for very similar reasons to theon actually lol. also like, a doctor for his hand or whatever.

jaime lannister - the thing about the real world is that if jaime joins the army and then realizes he’s willingly become part of the imperialist war machine, he can just finish out his time and then not join up again. he can literally just quit his job & become a pacifist or whatever the fuck.

samwell tarly

stannis baratheon - i think it'll be a shock but once he realizes he doesn't have to fuck women - or ANYONE really if he doesn't want to - and that there's a lot of people who find "strong silent and kind of a dick" a hot personality to have, he's gonna get lit, he's a baratheon after all he just needs the right circumstances

duncan the tall - put this man on a horse farm he'll have that shit running like a navy captain within a month, i believe this

characters i think would struggle a bit

cersei lannister - can’t murder but can take t, so there’s some trade offs here. she also has a terrible time adjusting in general so 50/50 she loses it or becomes buck angel.

tyrion lannister - again can’t murder, but once he gets over that, i think he will really enjoy being rich in this century. imagine tyrion on dating apps. he’ll be fine lmao

bran stark - i think bran would struggle without his direwolf connection but he will recover once he gets a wheelchair and a psychiatrist

davos seaworth - he's not a man that adjusts that well (imo) but there's nothing about him that screams "can only exist in a vaguely medieval context"

quentyn martell - he's just so sweet, someone's gonna bump him on the street and not apologize and it's gonna cause a meltdown but it's okay because doran and oberyn are throwing a rager with good music and good food and he'll be fine when he just has some carbs

characters i think would rather be k worded

ned stark

daenerys targaryen - listen, unless she gets to bring her dragons to fly around the chicago skyline, i think she's gonna be miserable.

basically every other greyjoy

barristan selmy

arys oakheart

tywin lannister

[diamondperfumes]

I will be debunking this post about Skahaz being the Harpy.

Just as Daenerys is ruminating on equally implausible answers, the author introduces a wolf, unseen and far away but present enough to interrupt her thoughts. It is a deliberately jarring, almost incongruous moment: Daenerys certainly never encounters this wolf, and the threat of a lupine predator only briefly reenters her mind once more in the chapter. The story jumps from Daenerys' musings to the wolf's howling with a sharp immediacy, juxtaposing the theoretical considerations of a clearly political plot and the dangerous ambiance of the Dothraki Sea without any apparent justification for doing so. Yet I think the author includes the howling wolf in this moment specifically to identify the person Daenerys could not - that is, the individual actually responsible for the poisoning at Daznak's Pit. After all, the chapter immediately preceding "Daenerys X" is "The Queen's Hand" - a chapter which features none other than Skahaz mo Kandaq in a "new" Brazen Beasts mask, "a wolf's head with lolling tongue". If Skahaz has not yet openly taken credit for the poisoning - instead cleverly using the naturally suspicious Barristan to frame Hizdahr for the crime and thus bring down his, Skahaz's, great political enemy - the Shavepate has slyly hinted as much (andindeed by using masks): when Barristan and Skahaz enter the Great Pyramid to depose Hizdahr, Skahaz has his Brazen Beasts wear locust masks, and even tells Barristan that he "ha[s] more locusts if [Barristan] need[s] them". Now, in "Daenerys X", the story allows Skahaz the same sort of subtle boasting: narratively transformed into the natural equivalent of his bronze disguise, Skahaz presents himself as the true poisoner, the solution Daenerys herself could not reach. If we do in fact get an admission from Skahaz on this point - and I would not be entirely surprised if he said so in the moments before he also kills Barristan Selmy - then we can look to this moment for the author's clue to that revelation[.]

I agree with the introduction of the wolf being a tie into her political plot, but the parallel is with Jon Snow being betrayed, just as Dany was betrayed by someone she trusted. Jon Snow is killed for breaking his Night's Watch vows, upon declaring war to save his sister. Dany is betrayed by the Harpy, a figure she gives weighty political authority to during her rule in Meereen. The Harpy is a key figure on her Court.

The wolf's howling makes Dany feel "sad and lonely." Not angry or hurt, but sad and lonely. Yes, Skahaz wears a wolf mask in ADWD Chapter 70, but Jon Snow dies in ADWD Chapter 69, around the same time that ADWD Chapter 71 is taking place. There is a tonal shift from Dany ruminating on who may have betrayed her, to Dany empathizing with the wolf's loneliness. How the wolf's howl makes her feel is key to interpreting the passage.

Dany falls asleep after she hears the wolf howl. To reinforce the connection to Jon Snow/the politics at the Wall, George includes this passage when she wakes up:

“It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he’d built it himself."

Ants are crawling all over Dany when she wakes up, and she compares their perception of her makeshift Dragonstone to how people must see the Wall of Westeros, the biggest wall in the world. This is a very deliberate analogy for George to make. He could have used any comparison, but he chose to analogize the ants crawling on the makeshift Dragonstone to the people on the Wall, right after a night where Dany has dreams of starlight and Quaithe, when she falls asleep hearing a lonely wolf's howl.

Skahaz's Brazen Beasts wearing locust masks is a deliberate anti-parallel to the Harpy using locusts to poison Dany. The Harpy is trying to take Dany down, and Skahaz is trying to take Hizdahr down. However, Skahaz would not wear locust masks to hint to Barristan that he's the real poisoner, because it would only make Barristan suspicious of him. The irony is in freedmen wearing the faces of the very insects that slavers devour as a delicacy, and that they attempted to use to poison Dany. It's a way of mocking the slaver hegemony. While Skahaz has political reasons to have Hizdahr arrested, he gains nothing from poisoning Dany. In the aftermath of Dany's flight, Skahaz is deposed and Hizdahr, as king, holds all the power, and is able to chip away at everything Dany achieved as Queen of Meereen. If Skahaz's goal is to get rid of Hizdahr, poisoning Dany, which leaves a vacuum in her absence that strengthens Hizdahr, does not service him at all, especially because Dany is the one who gave him power.

Moreover, Barristan in that very chapter realizes that the poisoner is not Hizdahr:

“In return he gave her peace. Do not cast it away, ser, I beg you. Peace is the pearl beyond price. Hizdahr is of Loraq. Never would he soil his hands with poison. He is innocent.” “How can you be certain?” Unless you know the poisoner.

Barristan understands that the person who poisoned the locusts––the person who coerced Hizdahr's confectioner by kidnapping his daughter, the person who butchered his daughter into nine pieces when he failed to poison Dany––is the same person who so confidently guarantees that Hizdahr would never poison Dany, who engineered Hizdahr's marriage to Dany, the one whom neither Dany nor Barristan suspected of poisoning the locusts or being the Harpy.

Hizdahr is not the poisoner or the Harpy, but he is a son of the Harpy.

The person who benefits most from Dany being poisoned is the Harpy. Skahaz and Hizdahr are both narratively framed as potential poisoners. Attention is drawn as far away from the real Harpy as possible in adjudicating who the real poisoner is. Hizdahr, to gain a throne and roll back Dany's antislavery accomplishments. Skahaz, to have Hizdahr framed for the crime and removed from power. Both are presented as viable political actors with realistic motivations for wanting to poison Dany––how did Hizdahr truly secure the peace? how did Skahaz know all the details about the confectioner?––while the Harpy herself is distanced from the act, from the means of the act, and from the motivation for the act.

Barristan certainly will die defending Dany from the Harpy. But it will not be a death in the shadows. It will occur in the moment where action is taking place, where Barristan is bodily defending Dany:

“The scarab unfolded with a hiss. Dany caught a glimpse of a malign black face, almost human, and an arched tail dripping venom … and then the box flew from her hand in pieces, turning end over end. Sudden pain twisted her fingers. As she cried out and clutched her hand, the brass merchant let out a shriek, a woman screamed, and suddenly the Qartheen were shouting and pushing each other aside. Ser Jorah slammed past her, and Dany stumbled to one knee. She heard the hiss again. The old man drove the butt of his staff into the ground, Aggo came riding through an eggseller’s stall and vaulted from his saddle, Jhogo’s whip cracked overhead, Ser Jorah slammed the eunuch over the head with the brass platter, sailors and whores and merchants were fleeing or shouting or both …” (ACOK Dany V) - “The old man feinted with one end of the staff, pulled it back, and whipped the other end about faster than Dany would have believed. The Titan’s Bastard staggered back into the surf, spitting blood and broken teeth from the ruin of his mouth. Whitebeard put Dany behind him. Mero slashed at his face. The old man jerked back, cat-quick. The staff thumped Mero’s ribs, sending him reeling. Arstan splashed sideways, parried a looping cut, danced away from a second, checked a third mid-swing. The moves were so fast she could hardly follow.” (ASOS Dany V)

In the fifth chapters of her ACOK and ASOS arcs, Barristan defends Dany from an assassin––the manticore and the Titan's Bastard. It will only be fitting that he finds his end defending Dany from the Harpy of Meereen, completing the pattern of threes where some symbol/figure of an antagonistic political institution (the Sorrowful Men of Qarth & Mero of Braavos, the original commander of the initially slaver-aligned sellsword company, the Second Sons) comes to murder Dany.

[agentrouka-blog]

Barristan the bold More like Barristan the BITCH. What a hypocrite. if he was in King's landing instead of Jaime he would have just watched Aerys burning the city without doing a damn thing other than feeling sorry for himself. Can't wait until he dies in a foreign land serving this ding dong queen of his.

"I hate politics. Let me execute a political coup to dethrone the annoying brown man my queen married and hand yet more power to the guy running the secret police torture state in her name. He really promised not to do anything bad, so it's definitely better to provoke war and battle than to preserve a fragile peace. I am just a simple knight, all I know it how to fight, so if I bring about violence and yet more people are killed, at least that's something I can understand, yay."

Barristan the Dolt.

[ilynpilled]

Gonna get into this in more depth, honing in on a specific part of the color symbolism post. This Cat quote in AGoT, where the moonlight changes Jaime’s golden armor and hair to silver, and turns his crimson cloak to a black one, might be very heavy foreshadowing:

yet she knew it was him. “Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black.

The moonlight is so interesting to me. We know the moon can represent phases and change. The moon is emphasized in I believe three very key moments in Jaime’s story:

This is the first one, in Jaime II, before he loses his hand:

The night was strangely peaceful. The half-moon sat overhead in a black felt sky, surrounded by stars. Off in the distance, some wolves were howling. One of their horses whickered nervously. There was no other sound. The war has not touched this place, Jaime thought. He was glad to be here, glad to be alive, glad to be on his way back to Cersei.

It is a half-moon, I think this is a phase before a key transitional period. It is self explanatory how he is feeling here in specific. He has a clear purpose, the one thing he orients his life around (when he is not busy dissociating, doing passive suicidal ideation or seeking a chivalric death): Cersei. This is about to all crumble and change.

Then, we get a parallel passage, the one were Jaime’s drastic shift happens, after he is crippled:

Jaime lay on his back afterward, staring at the night sky, trying not to feel the pain that snaked up his right arm every time he moved it. The night was strangely beautiful. The moon was a graceful crescent, and it seemed as though he had never seen so many stars. The King's Crown was at the zenith, and he could see the Stallion rearing, and there the Swan. The Moonmaid, shy as ever, was half-hidden behind a pine tree. Why would the stars want to look down on such as me?

I talked about this before: the crescent moon can symbolize, in Celtic mythology specifically: phases, growth, and potential. Jaime is about to change drastically. It is about cycles: life & death. We can assume that it is waning if we go by the half-moon established from before. The Jaime we have come to know dies so Jaime can be reborn in the narrative. Then, in the next paragraph, Brienne stops him from passive suicide, so that rebirth can actually happen (the bath scene).

Then we have another half-moon, at the end of his ADwD chapter:

Jaime shook his head. "It would be a bloody business, and for what? These people have done us no harm. We'll shelter in the houses, but I'll have no stealing. We have our own provisions." As a half-moon crept up the sky, they staked their horses out in the village commons and supped on salted mutton, dried apples, and hard cheese. Jaime ate sparingly and shared a skin of wine with Peck and Hos the hostage.

This is another phase. This is his huge Tywin anti-parallel, what happens before he follows Brienne. It is a half-way point in his new story. Another key transition.

With the symbolism that is being followed through, it makes so much sense that it is the moonlight that foreshadows his change in AGoT.

Then we have the passage that suggests that as Jaime continues his story, he will get nearer to the blank white shield at the bottom of his page, distancing himself from the gold lion on the crimson shield at the top:

When he was done, more than three-quarters of his page still remained to be filled between the gold lion on the crimson shield on top and the blank white shield at the bottom. Ser Gerold Hightower had begun his history, and Ser Barristan Selmy had continued it, but the rest Jaime Lannister would need to write for himself. He could write whatever he chose, henceforth. Whatever he chose . . .

Then we actually see part of the foreshadowing from AGoT come to be. His gold hair starts turning silver. He is becoming pale and bloodless, as opposed to crimson & gold:

"Gold? Or silver?" Cersei plucked a hair from beneath his chin and held it up. It was grey. "All the color is draining out of you, brother. You've become a ghost of what you were, a pale crippled thing. And so bloodless, always in white." She flicked the hair away. "I prefer you garbed in crimson and gold."

The white part is also reinforced by Brienne as well:

She did as he bid her. "The white cloak . . ."

". . . is new, but I'm sure I'll soil it soon enough."

“That wasn't . . . I was about to say that it becomes you.”

My overall conclusion is the same I think, I just wanted to zoom in on this part because I think it is so meticulously delineated. I think the black cloak part could probably related to the NW atp, but I also think what I mentioned regarding greyness in that other post applies as well.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Do you think Daemon Blackfyre really loved Daenerys? Idk he seemed happy enough with Rohanne of Tyrosh. Was Daenerys a motivation for his rebellion?

I’ve spoken about this a few times, and my opinion hasn’t really changed. Yandel casting doubt on the relationship isn’t enough when pretty much everyone else in the story from both sides of the conflict—Eustace Osgrey, Barristan Selmy, Doran Martell—that mentions Dænerys I says she and Daemon were in love. GRRM said they were in love in an interview. However, due to the implied character of both of them, I believe any romance would’ve ended once Daemon wed in 184, when he and Dænerys were 14 and 12 (hence any romance was probably a chaste kid-crush later seized on by both sides to suit their narrative). He probably was happy with Rohanne—the couple has parallels to Davos/Marya with their 7 tragic sons and Jaehaerys/Alysanne with their many children, both generally happy marriages—but as a Tyroshi woman in the historically anti-Essosi Westeros (where even the Valyrian-descended Rogares faced coups, exile, and mutilation, and Rohanne wasn’t Valyrian), it was convenient to erase her from the story.

Dænerys wasn’t a motivation for “his rebellion”, because the inciting incident of said rebellion was Da3ron II ordering his arrest based on rumors Bl00draven had told him. She doesn’t enter the picture there (and considering I doubt they had much contact after their marriages, hadn’t for a while), because getting arrested possibly without cause—and, knowing Bl00draven, would’ve rightfully feared for the lives of his family had the arrest succeeded—was more than enough reason. The First Blackfyre romance plots have some similarities to those in Robert’s Rebellion, where it’s said that Robert rebelled to get Lyanna back from the prince who kidnapped her (or Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped without telling anyone, if you’re a royalist); however, we all know that the inciting incident was Aerys II demanding of Jon Arryn the heads of his young wards after brutally murdering Brandon&Rickard Stark et al. It takes the focus away from Aerys’ brutality and tyranny to paint Rhaegar and Robert as romantic figures fighting over a woman; so I think the Daemon/Dænerys story (though having a kernel of truth due to a childhood romance) was used to shift away from the injustice of Da3ron to paint Daemon as a romantic spurned lover. We know Red propaganda was involved post-Redgrass via “The Hammer and the Anvil” in which the credit for the victory was given to Maekar/Baelor’s military tactics rather than Bl00draven having Daemon and his sons shot with arrows while Daemon was trying to save the life of an enemy…so it’s not exactly a stretch that more romanticism is involved to try to hide a complex political situation that makes the ruling family look awful.

[her-gentle-prison]

Stuff like this is why I hate Barristan.

"How dare Doran Martell send his perfectly fine son (but whose physical appearance does not specifically cater to my young queen) and *gasp* expect them to marry??"

It's like once Daenerys had rejected Quentyn, Barristan automatically deemed him unworthy of his queen and started to act as if sending Quentyn was an insult in itself... "Dorne sent her mud", he claims. Literally just because Daenerys found him unattractive. What an ass!

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Dany antis' "metas" about how Dany is totally naive about Westeros really shows they just haven't read the books, or at least not her chapters. They'll rant about how she expects the people to just bow down to her, when in reality that was how Viserys (and later Young Griff) thought due to Illyrio's words. Meanwhile Dany, "mistrusted Illyrio's sweet words as she mistrusted everything about Illyrio." (AGOT Daenerys I) Dany knows that it takes more than a name or even dragons to be worthy to rule. That's a major piece of what sets her apart from other rulers in ASOIAF.

Robert took the throne because he was the foremost head of the rebellion and had some Targaryen blood. Joffrey and Tommen rule(d) because of their perceived relation to Robert. Stannis laid his claim based on being Robert's brother. Renly laid his not only because of blood, but also popularity with the lords and sheer number of troops. Robb was crowned because he was his father's son.

Dany knows she how fickle allegiance owed to a name is, she knows how the lords turned on her family and saw the hospitality in Essos fade when she and Viserys had nothing. She also knows simply scaring them into following her with dragons and armies won't work, she scared the shit out of the masters in Astapor and Yunkai, yet as soon as she turned her back they went back to slaving. In Meereen, she had her armies and her titles, yet the Sons of the Harpy constantly defied her.

Dany knows the Westerosi people won't just bow to her when she arrives (though stories of her are causing quite a stir lmao), she knows she will have to fight for her throne and make alliances. She understands that she will have to prove herself to the people and lords, after all, why else would they follow her? Her Khalasar only followed her after she proved herself strong, the Unsullied followed her when she proved just (after she freed them), Barristan Selmy swore himself to her only after observing her for a long period, and the rest of the Dothraki will follow her only after she proves herself once again.

Every time Dany has lead, it's because she proved herself to be worthy following, not because she's a Targaryen or the Mother of Dragons. Why would she suddenly forget this when she gets to Westeros? Well bad writing is the answer in the show, which is why in the books, she won't just become entitled.

There's different character who already has that characteristic: Young Griff. He expects the lords of Westeros to follow him against the Lannisters and Baratheons without question and for Dany to swear herself and her dragons to him and even marry him simply because he is (supposedly) the son of Rhaegar. Young Griff is a subversion of the lost prince trope, he is not only a fake but also exhibits qualities reminiscent of Joffrey (according to Tyrion), so not exactly a great candidate for king. Yet Dany antis insist on putting the sense of entitlement on Dany while portraying "Aegon" as a true heir and worthy king that evil Dany will kill in her lust for power.

Dany antis will formulate arguments against her purely out of thin air and shitty writing. They will ignore any and all actions she has done when ruling and when talking about it, rather choosing to force their fanon ideas on her and give her true qualities to their favs instead.

[sayruq]

1) old ass Targaryen cronie Barristan saying Rhaegar was "fond of Elia" lmao this old fool wishes Rhaegar gave even a single fuck about him the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard being the MOST CLUELESS about the rest of the Kingsguard LMAO literally this man didn't know what anyone was doing the most irrelevant LC of the KG lmao but this just confirms that Rhaegar was more fond/ into/ had affections for Elia than she rightfully did his pasty lizard ass

2) Barristan not only compared beautiful precious the only true Queen Elia to a dishrag but he also completely erased her opinion on their own marriage; this clown claimed that Rhaegar loved Lyanna um sir when were you invited to the Tower Joy (never!) and said Rhaegar was only fond of Elia bby boy stfu no matter how much you hype up Rhaegar/ Ashara they wouldn't give a single fuck about you -- ofc this clown survives the Trident and not Lewyn Martell I hate it sfm

i like to think his shit opinions are why ashara never knew he existed. now i want a fic where he won the tourney and gave the flower crown to ashara and she’s like ‘who the hell is this?’