#could apply to fanon

[loz-tearsofahomo]

i am begging people to start appreciating the trope of "friendly to everyone except you" because it is so untapped. Imagine. Character A is universally liked but just, hates character B's guts For No Reason other than pure annoyance. The tension is so thick for literally no reason. Absolutely underrated .

[shroomerr]

omg kahl broflobster !?

[somegrumpynerd]

Do you think Nightmare thinks he's evil?

Like, canon Nightmare aside since he probably aspires to be, but when he was a kid that's what all the villagers probably insinuated, that there was something wrong or bad about him even when he wasn't doing anything really (getting corrupted and going on a possessed rampage afterwards probably didn't help).

It's that whole thing of "if you hear something enough times you start to believe it", do you think on some level he believes he is evil or that he was always destined to be bad?

[bebrave-live]

There's barely any evidence for them being romantically interested in each other in the actual show, one of them is married, one of the show's most promoted features is its lack of relationship drama, the actors keep talking about how they have a brother/sister relationship, ... Let's face it, guys...

[farshootergotme]

Actually, the dynamic between canon Dick Grayson and fanon Dick Grayson should be like Dipper and Dippy Fresh from Gravity Falls.

[falmerbrook]

I love seeing people's characterizations of Nerevar because the fella is so important, but he also functionally isn't a character. He has almost no characterization to speak of. You can pull some tidbits out about how he might of been, but he's basically a plot device--a backstory for all the important people. The only accounts we hear about him are from the most biased and untrustworthy sources in the whole game. So it's so fun to see what people do with those scraps. At this point he's Morrowind fans' collectively owned OC

[perseidlion]

On Fanon vs Canon

Look, full disclosure: I hate the name Thomas for The Cat King. I think it's a far too human a name for him, and it takes away from his otherworldliness.

Fandom seems to have attached to the pre-release casting announcement where he was briefly called that and well, fandom's gonna fandom. This would just be a me problem except for the fact that people are acting like the name is confirmed in canon.

I've seen posts from a number of people who think it IS canon due to its ubiquity of use in fandom spaces. They just assume they missed something in the credits of the show, or a version of him existed in the comics where he's called Thomas (there isn't, he's original to the show.)

Now look, this might not seem like a big deal, but I think it IS a problem. I know I might seem biased as a Thomas-name hater, but honestly I'd hate the name just as much if it WERE confirmed canon. I don't hate it because it's non-canonical. I hate it because I don't think it's a good name for him.

The problem comes from when fanon and canon bleed together where it's hard to tell the difference. Where fandom has collectively decided they like certain ideas or tropes and that it fits well with the show. This kind of thing is completely harmless as long as everyone keeps in mind that we're just playing around with fanworks. But when there's slippage...

I've seen it happen in a different fandom where people got deep into their own personal interpretations of characters and dynamics. A lot of people agreed with that vibe and started building off each other. It got pretty far from the source material, but these people felt like they had the right of it. It all made such logical sense to them and they'd spent so much time exploring an avenue in fanworks that it felt inevitable that their interpretation WOULD be canon.

And then a new season came out and not only did it NOT match their fanon, it directly contradicted their interpretation and in some cases proved it completely false.

People got VERY angry and started attacking the show for being "badly written" and accused the showrunner and writers of "betraying" them. When nothing in their fanon was promised or confirmed by canon in the first place, and some of the things they felt were inevitable were SO off what we'd seen on the show that it would have made no sense if their thing had happened.

Then these people turned on their fellow fans who pointed out the things they wanted were never inevitable, and in some cases would have made no sense. And then fandom got toxic.

I don't want to see this happen to the DBD fandom. The way to avoid that is to guard against the slippage between fanon and canon.

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with playing around in the sandbox of the show's world. That's the point of fanworks, and the fun of it. But we need to let go of this desire to be "right" about canon and that our interpretations are only valid if they are confirmed on screen. And we need to pay attention to the difference between what we see on screen and what makes sense/what we'd like to have happen.

Thomas lovers, you loving that name will not be diminished if he's never actually given that name. And my hate of the name will remain even if it's proven canonical. It's fine! It's not a big deal. Canon and off-canon are both extremely valid types of fandom expression.

Just...keep in mind that canon is canon and fanon is fanon. Sometimes fanon is proved right, but it is not inevitable. And the creators of a show don't owe it to us to do something just because fandom has decided they want X thing.

It starts with a name but can lead to other things if we're not careful.

[rmgold-blog]

I'm gonna say it.

I don't care if it's not canon.

[jooniely]

A story where a character thinks they have superpowers of empathy where they can read other people's emotions accurately and act accordingly but its actually just a skill they learned from a young age as a result of trauma or their environment.

[windor-truffle]

ok I know it wouldn't make much sense in canon but it'd be hilarious if Asbel took Cheria's last name after they get married. "Oh I'm supposed to be Asbel Lhant, the Lord of Lhant? WRONG. Asbel Barnes. I respect my wife more than my job 😂"

[vicontheinternet]

Every time i think abt how dick (made) stripped/fired Tim of robin because damian needed it more makes me crazy perfectionist Tim striving for the sky striving to make his place in the bat family Tim who pieced that family that he feel inatique only to be pulled out of the sky like Icarus falling to the top the ground falling into the ocean sinking drowning with no way out. Dick is totally the sun but the bat family as a whole could be applied

[narcoticwriter]

Mother of God, Father of Jesus, and Brother of Christ, what did you mean by that?

[sproutingcorpse]

really struggling to word this but likeeeee. as much as i have a bone to pick with how tommy is presented in fanon (during the peak of dsmp's popularity especially) there's something really poignant to me about how ctommy has become such a vessel of idealized projection and made in the image of our personal interpretations as fans.... the dsmp as a whole largely revels in the catharsis of creating art and how our love for a story allows it to transcend the realm of fiction and become something Real and how the dsmp was ultimately brought to life by our own hands as fans as it was by the content creators', and thats exactly how ctommy functions to me: this bridge between content creators and fans, artists and audience. just as hatsune miku is the voice for producers who can't sing their own feelings themselves ctommy shoulders our pain and grief as people living through a time where the world seemed to do nothing but fall apart

ctommy is far from my favorite dsmp character yet he's like the guy i draw most and the only real logical explanation i have for this is that he's kind of like hatsune miku. to me

[chow0w]

oh i just LOVE your style!!!! if you wouldn't mind, could you explain how you go about designing and what your artistic process is with dragons specifically?? I love your lady jewel design the most!!!!!!

Of course, and thank you so much! @aldershadows also asked this question, and I hope I can give you a comprehensive answer, and will be taking this oppurtunity to create a one-and-done design tutorial to answer any similar questions that may come up in the future.

Bear in mind that I'm not a professional, and I'm not looking to dissuade people from following traditional techniques or other advice. This is purely a discussion of MY process, and what I consider to be good/bad design technique.

Where to Start

There are six important conceptual 'principles' I like to consider when in the initial stages of (Re)designing a character: Story, Personality, Aesthetic, Interpretation, and canon/fanon appearance. Fully understanding these principals can help you understand a character, which will make both your life and design better.

Story: What is this character's actual story? What's their lore? Where do they start, and where do they end up - and most importantly, where does your design fit into that timeline? When I design characters, I try to be clear on exactly what part of their journey they are on. (Ex: blaze and the coat -> sandwing succession war)

Personality: This one is pretty easy - what is your character like, and how do they present themselves to the outside world? When you make a character and show them to the world, everything in the canvas is interpreted by the audience: even down to simple details like posture or background. Treat it like an opportunity to show off as much of your character's personality as you can.

Aesthetic: Aesthetic plays the most important role of all: it's job is to make sure your design is cohesive. It can be a common theme, pattern, color pallet or shape - as long as it reoccurs throughout a design, it's good. Use aesthetics to amplify the other principals, and figure out how to make it *look* nice as a secondary goal.

Interpretation: This one is specific to redesigns, but could also be applied to OCs - I like to consider my personal interpretation of a character: the media I see, the opinion I have... Multi-animator projects, other fanart pieces and personal quirks make up my interpretation of most WoF characters. You don't always need to incorporate your interpretation, but it's good to have in mind.

Canon/Fanon appearances: If you want to design and OC, ignore this. If you're redesigning an existing character, it's useful to consider how your audience views them - for example, most of us collectively agree on a few key design aspects of most characters. That doesn't mean you have to follow those conventions, but keep in mind that they may make your character more or less recognizable. You can also call on the other principles of design to make up for any leap-of-faith redesign choices you make.

Narrow It Down

Now that you're thinking, it's time to narrow those ideas down! Be aware that sometimes, less is more: you might have a ton of cool concepts, but your design will look BAD if you can't stay cohesive. The number of different ideas that can co-exist in one design varies a lot by preference and similarity, so be evaluative when doing this. If you follow my blog, you might notice I tend to walk the line between detailed, cohesive design and overwhelming animator repellent. To combat this, I try to step back often and consider if I've gone too far.

At this stage, it's good to make notes or small sketches - anything to get your ideas down.

Experiment

Test your ideas out with more sketches - alter, add, subtract... whatever your heart desires. Experimentation is the best way to discover your specific design tendencies, as well as breaking new ground and stepping out of your comfort zone. The more you experiment, the quicker you'll improve. This is usually the point where I start testing out different patterns, since those are the main highlight of most of my redesigns. Pertaining to dragons, it's always a good idea to test out different shapes - especially wings, spikes, arms and tails, which are generally the most customizable features of a character. Looking to other artists for advice/inspiration is also a great tactic, but be sure to follow the 80/20 rule of originality within your designs!

Judge yourself (not literally)

Evaluating your designs as you make them is always a great idea, but sometimes you need multiple tests/sketches in order to know what you REALLY want. Compare your experiments - what do you like about them? What do you dislike? Which are more faithful to the character, and which ones confuse you? understanding the flaws in your design can help you to overcome even the biggest challenges.

I've used Kinkajou to show how important evaluation is: despite being my favorite character, she has proved exceedingly hard to redesign (to my satisfaction,) even with multiple attempts from this year and the last. She might not even be released by the time this post airs - but with the power of critical thinking and good evaluation, her design has gradually improved over my last few attempts.

Stay on your toes

Did you think you were done? Did you think it was over? NO. Life doesn't get easier just because you made it past the idea stage. When you have your final thoughts and want to get chugging with your reference page/illustration, make sure to stay alert! Keep evaluating, keep experimenting, and make sure to stay mindful of what you do! One of the more common issues I have is that I turn my brain off while I draw, and then slowly my designs drift further and further away from the idea I actually wanted to put down. Asking yourself questions along the way can help to sharpen your design, and train your mind to think more artistically.

It's always good to take a once-over of your final product: check for errors you might have made, and think about whether or not your design still looks good. Does it show personality? Is it consistent?

If you do find that your end product isn't what you really imagined, don't despair - there are plenty of lazy tricks you (And I) can pull to string things back together again. Using gradient maps is a great way to fix your colors, and simple filters like 'overlay' (procreate) can help to neutralize your pallet. My favorite trick is to use the 'curves' tool (procreate) to make certain colors darker, in the case that I feel my design doesn't use a wide enough range of light and dark shades. I also like to turn saturation down if I think there's a color problem, to see if it's actually my pallet or if I'm using too many colors with the same tone.

Keep Going

My design strategy relies on confidence. You won't be able to improve if you doubt that you can! So, my most important piece of advice is to keep going, no matter how fast or slow you seem to make progress. My second most important piece of advice is not to compare yourself to other artists - focusing on their progress is neglecting your own.

To everyone who made it this far, thank you so much! Posting here truly is an amazing experience and I adore you guys. Sorry if this got a little out of hand. I hope this was helpful to you and anyone else with the same question, as well as being a useful resource to other artists in the future! As always, my askbox is open to any and all questions + requests for redesigns!

( ´ ω ` )ノﾞ

[1322daysofdoey]

Spreading my orange Kevin agenda... Read my ramblings... This is going to be stupidly long as I try to explain everything here so I apologize in advance.

To try to break this down, basically the main reason I think Kevin is orange and not red is because of the arrangement of the heads in his monster form, which are arranged in a similar "triangle" fashion to the colors on Doey himself (one on his top-right, one on his top-left, one on the bottom-center). Not only that, but this color arrangement is ALSO present in his logo (two "tall" yellow and orange letters - d and h, and one "low-hanging" red letter between them - g), so I get the impression that this was done on purpose rather than a coincidence. So, looking at his monster form, Kevin is easily identifiable by his angry expression, and with this arrangement in mind he corresponds to the orange color placement.

So, then, between the last two heads, how did I determine which one is Matthew and which one is Jack? The answer is going back to the logo and looking at the hands. Each one is posed differently, and I feel that this is reflective of each boy's personality. The orange hand is a fist, which further supports that color representing Kevin due to his aggression. The red hand is pointing, which I feel is a good representation of Matthew's leadership and charisma. So then Jack is yellow, the open hand, by process of elimination. You could counterargue that a pointing finger could be accusatory, and that a fist in the air could represent leadership. But because of the previous point about the consistent arrangement of the colors/faces, I'm pretty confident about Kevin being orange, so that really just leaves me with the other interpretation.

I also think that these colors make more sense when thinking about the actual body parts that the colors are applied to. Orange is one of Doey's arms, which I think fits much better for Kevin than the legs would. Meanwhile, I think the legs work well for Matthew because he's the "support" and stability of the trio. It also makes the "three boys in a trench coat" jokes work better this way lol, you make Matthew the "legs" of the disguise because he's the oldest and tallest to carry the other two but then don't even make him the color of the legs? smh

Then my last two points are a bit more minor, but I wanted to mention anyway:

Firstly, the emotional association of the colors. I feel like the red Kevin fanon is specifically because red is seen as "the angry color" or "the bad color" (Kevin is NOT bad or evil FYI but you know how some people are about this sort of thing...), but then they're forgetting that red is also the color of love. (I mean hello, we're talking about the same game where Bobby BearHug exists?) Matthew has so much love for friends and family, I think it suits him well. And then orange is still a "fiery" color that can fit for Kevin's intense emotions, yeah?

Then secondly, the official "order" of the boys. Their experiment numbers are given a letter at the end to differentiate the three, with Jack being 1322A, Kevin being 1322B, and Matthew being 1322C. Youngest to oldest. And, if Kevin is orange instead of red, it would also make them ordered by color hue. A, B, C. Yellow, orange, red. It just makes sense, it feels right. It feels like something that would be done on purpose. Especially when combined with everything else I've already pointed out in this post.

Gonna finish this off with addressing another potential counterargument, though:

"But Doey's own character designer drew art where they color-coded the boys as yellow Jack, orange Matthew, and red Kevin! So doesn't that make those colors official?" Bro they literally say in their post that it "isn't canon" and is just fan art. You can already tell that it's not canon just based on Jack being a literal infant baby that looks nothing like the canon kid we see in the video lol. Furthermore, while Max is Doey's character designer, that doesn't mean they were responsible for any of the symbolism, foreshadowing, etc. regarding his backstory. They designed the character, but that doesn't mean they designed the logo for example. And, interestingly, in their concept art for monster Doey, you know what's noticeably different from the final version? The three heads inside Doey's mouth. They all share the same expression, so we can't tell which one is Kevin in this version. We don't know who was responsible for minor adjustments between this concept art and the final in-game design, so it's possible that someone on the team other than Max wanted that detail to be included. So in other words, I think that if each boy is indeed meant to correspond to a specific color on Doey, I don't think it was Max who chose which kid is which color, nor would they necessarily even know the "correct" color-coding since the possible hints about it that I talk about in this post are easy to miss if you're not hopelessly brainrotted like I am, and aren't important to understanding the lore. So they may have just fallen into the same "red = angry" logic that most of the fandom did.

But yeah whatever, man. I just wanted to get this out there.

[0-therw-0-rldly]

I’ll preface this by saying I’m not really a shipper. I just enjoy canon couples on TV Series/films.

Terms I’d like B*ddies to remove from their vocabulary because they don’t know how to use them correctly:

Media literacy: For a group that uses this term a lot you sure do misinterpret everything in this show.

Queerbaiting: Going to expand on this one. A show that’s already been pre established for having queer characters simply cannot queerbait.

Ship baiting: While sometimes you can argue that they could be doing that, that’s only if you look at the show in a very biased manner. You might think this is the case but the general audience doesn’t think the way you do.

Ship war: This isn’t a one tree hill situation where there was Team Brooke Vs. Team Peyton where the middle guy (Lucas Scott) had canonically been with both women. This is people not understanding fanon vs. canon and not being able to just watch the show. It’s like playing quarterback on Madden and thinking you could be better than Patrick Mahomes.

Plot device: everything’s a plot device. Move tf on.

Predator: You sound like crazy MAGA supporters calling everything regarding the LGBTQIA+ community as predatory. Sit down.

Co-parenting: I know this is a big one and discourse was brought up during the hiatus. Oliver and Ryan have loosely mentioned this years ago but it was never to be taken this seriously. Do y’all even know what co-parenting is or are you that big of a donut? Buck is someone who loves his best friend deeply and by extension, his kid too. Him taking care of him frequently does not make him a co-parent. Maybe he is a parental or uncle figure, but he isn’t a co-parent. Also, I swear y’all need to learn how a will works. He is a GODPARENT, not a GUARDIAN. Stfu.

Hag: This especially applies to women, but to say that someone 25-30+ is a hag for still being in fandoms or enjoying tv shows/films is inherently misogynistic. Men are never held to this much criticism for enjoying fictional media, but women aren’t allowed to?

Queer Coding: people of the same sex “looking at each other”, hugging, or having intimate moments all together doesn’t make them queer coded. It could mean that they just love each other that deeply platonically. While representation is amazing and just because you interpret a character as queer coded (just like my ship baiting comment) doesn’t mean others interpret it that way as well. In addition, network TV has stipulations, and also actors are allowed to decline storylines. Ryan has mentioned his character is heterosexual an abundance of times which means (at least for now) that he isn’t willing to go for this storyline.

Dead naming: Y’all construing the fact that Buck wants people like coworkers and some of his former love interests, to saying Evan is his dead name is inherently transphobic because do you even understand what a dead name is? Evan Buckley is shown as being fine with being called Evan by both Tommy and his sister. I’m pretty sure some of his love interests have called him Evan as well.

Fetishizing: You guys saw two hot guys who “looked at each other” and for 6 seasons have wanted nothing but to see those two make out with each other. Those of us who enjoy Tevan saw Buck giddy at the thought of Tommy and have wanted domestic fluff for them since.

Anything to do with racism, homophobia, and misogyny: I’ve seen the way you guys have conveniently weaponized Henren and by extension Aisha/Tracie when you didn’t get the Ryan/Oliver interview, don’t try to act like you’re morally superior. Not to mention wanting a canonically gay man to die in a show and not even holding those who use your ship name to write CSA fics accountable because you’re petty and want to throw hissy fits. Anyone looking at your comments as an outsider would think you’re homophobes and yes queer people can be homophobic.

I do hope you can expand your vocabulary. 🤍