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dimeadozencows · 14 days ago

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My best explanation of our newest resident freak; Ramb.

Character analysis, loose ends, and questions.

I hope you like long winded “under the cut” posts about the obscure lore of irrelevant side characters.

(don't worry, I'm adhd, there's pictures and gifs.)

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This is both an outlet for me to yell my thoughts and emotions about a fictional British power strip into the void, and an explanation on what the fuck happened to me for the people who followed me for gaster (sorry to those people, btw :’))

This will be divided into sections so that if you're specifically interested in one topic about him, then you could just skip to it! :]

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The sections are:

First impressions; sword-route first timers VS casual players

Character analysis

The matter of ERAM.

Red flags (the red stands for “is this the secret boss?”)

Red flags 2 (the red stands for “is he okay”)

He's just a red herring, right? (well…)

What he is in this story, and will he be more? (Conclusion)

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Let's get cracking.

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First impressions; sword route first timers VS casual players.

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This section will go over what you'd see from him on a standard run, and won't go too into analysis. It's mainly here if you aren't very familiar with his appearances in the game or need a refresher!

Feel free to skip to Character Analysis if you think this section will be redundant for you :]

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(I really wanted to have this section be a part of the full post, but it's. Almost half of the entire thing. Also it ate up the 30 images limit.)

(So here, I posted it separately! Have a read through it if you wanna! <3)

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Character analysis:

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So… we sure do learn a lot about this random guy, huh?

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First off, you’ve probably noticed that he’s very contradictory;

He’s caring and kind towards Kris, but he fully believes his intuition about them, and never thinks he might be wrong and should hear them out (although, with how much he’s shown to care about them, I'm sure that if Kris could and would speak out, he’ll listen to them. But they can’t, because of us)

He's extremely confident, overly self assured, to the point of getting perceived as egotistical by the other darkners, but he doesn't think of himself that highly, equating himself to his light world counterpart many times as if he isn't a person now, and being fully willing to give his life up for kris.

He’s said to be condescending to others, at least at first, but we’ve only seen kindness and care from him, probably because we’re talking to him as Kris. But his jokes and down to earth attitude seem integral to his character, and we know he didn't do anything worse than just look out for Kris.

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These contraindications are a part of why he seems so shady to people, how can he be all these things at once? He has to be lying.

But this is just being a complicated person, like everyone else. And if you'll continue reading you’ll see that these inconsistencies actually make a lot of sense :] i’ll try my best to go through everything!

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(this segment is a bit all over the place since it’s the first one i wrote, but there's a summary at the end :])

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Let's start with how he confident he is about his beliefs;

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I saw someone say that he's acting in the way a parasocial fan would, and while I get where they're coming from what with him reiterating "I know what you really want" a lot-

but it feels less like he's putting them on a pedestal and objectifying them (in fact, he's doing the complete opposite and objectifying himself) and more like he's that well meaning, distant older relative who adored you when you were younger, and hasn't yet caught up to the fact that you grew up.

A person who used to know you, who knew the child you were, and their love for you from back then still blinds them to how you've changed.

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Mixed with his overconfidence, it makes sense that he’d believe that he knows Kris as well as they know themselves, while completely oblivious to his own blindness.

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But how can he be so self assured but still view himself as lowly?

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That's because we're playing as Kris! I doubt he’d talk about himself that way to anyone else.

Kris, and how they made him feel important, is the source of his confidence. He was loved and wanted by them, and so he feels like he owes them everything. Even his own life.

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Another interpretation is that his loneliness (which we will get to) lowered his self worth outside of being Kris's toy, and he feels like that is the only thing that gives him value.

So his personality isn't completely demolished, but he doesn't really invest much time or thought into himself as a person (evidenced by how he never talked about himself to the other darkners, only about Kris.)

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you'd think that a character with an inflated ego, like he’s said to have, would be self-absorbed and egotistical, but not him. He seems to diminish his presence when speaking with Kris, never going into detail about himself.

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But with how off putting his behaviour is, it's really hard to believe he has our best interest at heart- he constantly remarks how he knows what kris “truly wants”, and he really wants us to play the creepy game in the console room-

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We’ll get to the nature behind the game in a future segment (the matter of Eram), but for now let's just assume he really does want us to have fun;

His off putting behavior stems from a lack of tact. He's stuck in the memories of the Dreemurr family’s past, and he’s sure that Kris remembers him fondly. And maybe they would’ve, but I doubt they want to think about anything from their past considering… everything.

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Speaking of their past! We weren't there! We didn't see the playing and fun they had together, most of the time when we play Deltarune we don't even think about kris- we just play the game.

To us Ramb is a stranger being overly familiar- to Ramb, he’s catching up with an old friend, and he has no idea how much they’ve changed.

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Also, he doesn't force you to play the game! He doesn't even bring it up in the green room until after round 2, and only if you tell him you aren't having fun with Tenna. There's no pressure on you to finish all the levels if you only started one, either.

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(telling him that you are having enough fun with Tenna)

It's on our terms, and for our fun. He keeps going with it because we keep coming back. By his own admission, his purpose is to let us (Kris) have fun.

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Additionally, we can't ignore the silly. He's implied to be a jokester! The classics you've come to expect from these games; like sans, jevil, and even spamton, a little guy who makes funny faces and tells jokes.

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I also want to bring up his expressions; half of his sprites have that worrying, almost troubled expression, that gives the things he says a caring and gentle feeling. It's a part of the over-familiarity. From someone you know this would be fine, but he’s this way with us from the second we meet him.

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Now, let's bring up this bit of dialogue from before you start the second level of the mantle game:

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The first time I read this dialogue I was stun locked for a moment. He could've just admitted to feeling lonely. He could've just outright said it, it wouldn't feel out of place in this story, Tenna admitted to it multiple times even. But Ramb didn't.

Instead, he said that if after the fountain is sealed, then if Kris felt like waking up their house again then they could. If they wanted that to happen.

Fine, weird line from him, he's got plenty.

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"Sorry Kris. I don't know what I was saying there. Just go and enjoy the games, eh? cheers."

He felt embarrassed about admitting to feeling lonely! He always puts Kris first before anything else, and for a moment, he didn't. For a moment he mentioned that he'd like it if Kris came back after this was all over. That was weird, I'm sorry for saying that.

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From this we can learn that he really does feel alone. His one friend will be gone soon, and that's okay, they have to leave. But it’d be nice if they came back one day. not that he’s comfortable with admitting this to us.

(This is also a hint that he knows Kris created the fountain!)

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His similarities to Tenna :

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Looking at the core of their characters, Ramb was written as almost another version of what Tenna is. They both care about Kris so much, they’re both lonely, ageing and growing obsolete and they know it. The differences are in how they take it.

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Tenna is trying his best to cling to the past in fear of being thrown away, he's trying to prove to Kris that he's useful, fun, and could give them what they've been missing. This joyous nostalgic feeling they left in their childhood alongside everything that made them happy.

Throughout this entire chapter Tenna is trying to drag Kris back to that, back to him. He forces it on them when they don't comply, and fights them when they want to leave.

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and yes a part of that is because of the knight's promise, that if he’ll do this he’ll be adored again. But to ignore the part of his motivation that's specific to Kris and the Dreemurr family as a whole would be a disservice to his character. He cares about Kris and he misses them so much, he misses what he was to them back when they needed him. He wants them to need him again.

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Meanwhile Ramb is just as aware of his growing obsolescence as tenna is, but he seems to accept it. knowing that eventually, naturally, they’ll all be worthless.

It's a part of his role as a secret boss red herring (which I will elaborate on in its own section), a darkner who mentions their own insignificance and nihilistically accepts it naturally makes us wonder what else they're thinking about and what they know.

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Ramb accepts his approaching end and decides to go out with a bang. He sets up another game like the ones they loved playing and gives them the option whether to actually play it or not.

Don't get me wrong, he absolutely clings to kris (or more like the memory of them as a child) just like Tenna does, but there's a difference in how they go about their emotions that sets them apart as characters, and makes it so understandable that they wouldn't be fond of each other.

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While Tenna is stuck in the past because his self worth is dependent on it, Ramb is stuck in the past because instead of trying to make new connections in the new place he was brought to, he clung to and still clings to the first and only person who showed him love.

Ramb is completely okay with becoming obsolete, while Tenna’s life spiraled because he couldn't handle it. Tenna is desperate and controlling (fits his position as this dark world’s ruler and also his deal with the knight), while Ramb only gives you one hint to get S-rank, and only if you tell him you think Tenna's games aren't fun.

Tenna is constantly second guessing himself and worrying over doing a good job, while ramb’s excessive confidence makes him 100% sure that he knows exactly what Kris wants, and that they’ll love the games he’s offering more than Tenna’s.

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They originate from the “same root” in a sense, but due to their different personalities, they’re complete opposites in the way they handle knowing they’re no longer as meaningful to their loved ones as they used to be.

Also, I'd feel remiss not to mention that Ramb quit his job while on a call with Tenna, then hung up on him.

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We don't talk about this enough me thinks. He's such a piece of shit sometimes lmfao

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I wish we got to see Ramb interacting with other people besides Kris, I think it would tell us a lot. Because he made so much of who he is about Kris, then of course his behavior would be one way with them, and different with others. How drastically it would change would say a lot about him as a person.

We did get it with Tenna a little, but he generally doesn't like him for reasons that seem to be unrelated to kris

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In conclusion:

To us (Kris), Ramb is a friendly, self-assured (if a little bit arrogant) guy.

He clearly cares about and loves Kris a lot, calling them luv at every opportunity and trying to better their experience in this dark world by giving them access to what he thinks is a better game than what they got.

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The things he says to Kris and his worrying expression give him a caring and gentle air, which can have the opposite effect and come off as too forward and overstep boundaries for a lot of people.

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He's acting overly familiar with Kris, remembering them fondly from their time together as lightner and toy, and he’s sure that Kris is on the same page as him.

And although we can't really know for sure, because Kris doesn't express their feelings or thoughts, we can assume that their bond fizzled out on Kris's end. because since the last time Ramb knew them, they’ve put everything that made them happy as a kid aside.

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He's extremely confident, believing himself to be the one who knows Kris the best out of anyone here, and he’s sure they’ll love the original game from before Tenna messed with it a lot more than what they got in his game show.

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Even though he’s very confident, and it's viewed as him having an ego by his peers, he's not egotistical. as his confidence stems from being loved by Kris, and believing himself to know them the best, not thinking that he’s the best, as would be assumed of a character with an “ego”.

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Additionally, despite his obvious confidence, he seems to have relatively low-self worth outside of being Kris's toy, equating himself to his lightworld form often and never elaborating on himself as the person he is now, to us or the other darkners.

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As time goes on we learn that he's deeply lonely, doesn’t have any friends or anyone that really likes him, and it has been that way for a while. Pretty much since he was brought to the dreemurr house.

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Despite how lonely he is, and how much of his life revolves around Kris, he never imposes himself on them. There’s no point in the game where we have to speak with him.

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We don't know much about his side in his relationships, but he specifically doesn't really care for his boss Tenna, and thinks he and his games are boring.

Maybe he never really wanted the job that was given to him to get rid of him, since he’s the first one to actively tell Tenna that he’s quitting. He then proceeds to hang up in his face.

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Despite knowing that Kris is the creator of his fountain, he doesn't worship them or objectify them as a god, nor does he treat Kris the way darkners created by the knight treat the knight, their creator, with fear and admiration.

He acts more like one of your detached older family members who don't yet understand that you grew up. (His self diminishing seems to stem from low self worth and not worship.)

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Additionally, Ramb seems to not really care about respecting authority, a trait that is rare for darkners.

like how he treats Kris like family and not authority, And how he gives us access to the original game against Tenna’s wishes. Although it's important to mention that he thinks of himself as lesser than Kris.

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He's fully willing to sacrifice himself for us, to give himself up completely, if there is a chance that his efforts will work and Kris will have fun.

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The matter of ERAM.

And why they're not actually the same person (hear me out it makes ramb a better character.)

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I get why people are fond of it. Ramb being the person behind eram would be awesome and a cool twist for his character and add to his significance in the story.

And by all means! Go for it! It makes for an awesome visual and cool art!!

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But hear me out… when it comes to the intent of the story… narratively, it doesn't make any sense.

Sometimes kindness and seemingly well meaning actions in this game really are just that.

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Now before we begin, let's establish some things;

First of all; without anyone asking him to, Ramb has sacrificed a lot for Kris.

He gave up the opportunity to make any connections in the new place he was brought to, by always commenting on others and their work. This made him alienated from anyone he could've been friends with, because he staked everything he is and could’ve had on his purpose to his lightner.

In the path where you don't humor him, you end up learning how lonely he truly was, how no one could stand him, and how much his caring for and loving you alienated him, to the point of complete social isolation. To the point where he felt like he didn't belong where he was, and was already turning to stone on the inside a long time ago.

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His ostracization was mostly his doing, and it is rooted in caring.

(If there was any other reason that Ramb was outcasted, then the pippins who clearly disliked him wouldn't protect his image and would tell us.)

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And secondly; The mantle game changes with the insertion of the oddcontroller.

When you first turn on the console, the title screen comes up just like it does at the beginning of “The legend of Tenna”, Tenna’s version of the game. But no controller is connected and the console turns off. Leaving the room, we find the oddcontroller on the ground, it is said to have pink and yellow buttons.

When the oddcontroller is connected to the console, The game immediately glitches out and shows our soul, us, inside 8bit kris. That never happens in any other variation of the game.

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Everytime you play the game again, the title screen comes up like normal. Kris then connects the oddcontroller, the game glitches out, and shows us the soul. It seems that the thing causing the difference is the act of connecting the controller.

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Here are the main reasons i've seen for why people think Eram is Ramb:

Ramb is very off putting

They have similar names

Ramb really wants us to play his game, and it turns out to be a horrifying experience for kris

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Let's tackle em’!

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Ramb is very off putting.

That's by design! He’s supposed to evoke that feeling you get from distant family relatives who remember you from when you were younger, but you have no memory of them.

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Kris has been through a lot, we still don't know the exact events, but trauma is obvious and prevalent in their character. They've since put a lot of their joy aside. Their room is empty, they don't watch tv or play games anymore, they don't visit noelle, even just to play her piano, preferring the one in the hospital.

And Ramb is an old toy of Kris', from when they were a child. It wouldn't be unlikely that the last time they played with him was before they put their joys aside.

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Ramb would have no way of knowing everything that's gone on with Kris since they last saw each other, and he’d assume that their life’s just naturally continued without him, but remain sure that they still remember him fondly.

He views himself as your old friend, because that's what Kris and him were before, he doesn't know who Kris is anymore, and he has no idea.

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And on top of that, YOU as the player weren't there for it all- you didn't see Kris playing with Ramb, and you didn't see Ramb being happy to assist Kris in having fun. To you, Ramb is a stranger, and him acting overly familiar with you causes discomfort and unease.

And Ramb is only speaking with Kris, because he has no idea you're there controlling them.

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They have similar names

That they do, Eram and Ramb are only one letter apart. But does Ralsei having a name that's a 1 to 1 of Asriels, and even seemingly having similar personalities make them the same person? No, and I hope to god you don't still believe that. Please believe me when i say that Toby wouldn't put incest in his game.

Eram and Ramb are opposites. Ramb only wants Kris to have fun, while Eram is obsessed with making Kris suffer. Ramb wants us to play a game where we get to make choices, and Eram forces us to play the one route the oddcontroller allows for.

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(Also, stupidly, Eram isn't british)

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3. Ramb really wants us to play his game, and it turns out to be a horrifying experience for kris

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It's a little weird that Ramb tells us that this is a game where we decide what to do, but the only way to progress is through killing. Which is part of why people think he’s very sketchy and a liar.

But what if the original game, before the insertion of the oddcontroller, was exactly that? A game similar to undertale, where there are different paths you can take, where your choices determine the kind of game you play? A game where you CAN make choices?

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But with the oddcontroller, there’s only one path. only one option, a glitchy, game breaking option, the weird route.

I'd also like to bring up the name “odd controller”, in relation to what we do in the game and what that stands for- Odd is another word for weird.

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But sure, maybe Ramb was the one who put the odd controller in the hallway outside the console room, he is standing right outside the door after all. But if it's true that Ramb’s intention was for us to play the game with this controller, why not give it to us when we enter the room? We have to speak with him to enter anyway.

And why say that he “set up the game for us” if there's no controller connected? Just to wait a few seconds to leave it in the hallway?

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This is a story, fully written in advance. If the intention was for us to suspect or think this corrupt version of the game is what Ramb intended for us to play, why not have the oddcontroller already connected to the console? Then we as players would have no doubt that this experience was this character’s full intention.

That part, where you have to leave the room to find a controller that is different from the ones you're used to, seems to be there to separate Ramb from whoever wants us to play the mantle game’s version of the weird route.

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------------------

But hold on, what if Ramb is intentionally putting on a front, acting and lying to make us believe his two personas?

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…why? What would he gain from that? He already gets us curious enough to play the game as Ramb, why continue to put up a front even when he and Kris are completely alone, even at the very last moments of his life?

Speaking of which, how is he able to battle Kris as Eram when he’s shown to be almost fully stone, and unable to move himself enough to unblock the entry? To turn and look at us? How would he use a controller?

If he’s faking being stone too, then how? And what’s the reason? What does he gain?

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Also, if we are assuming he’s lying; then everything, his feelings, his character and his emotional issues, None of it was real. All that nuance, depth, character, It was all fake, a lie. For the plot twist that in fact he actually… thinks we're weird for enjoying the game?

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Narratively, it doesn't make sense. If he’s lying, why not reveal it? In his last moments with us, as Eram or Ramb, why not reveal that this entire time he just wanted us to suffer?

If he’s lying, then why are we repeatedly told, so many times, how lonely he was? How much he cared about Kris? Why is it said to us after he’s already gone, on the path where you don't even play his game, when the lie wouldn't matter?

The story doesn't benefit from the unclarity that this brings once Ramb and Eram are both already gone.

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I know that the main reason behind this theory is Ramb’s off-putting over familiarity, combined with the horrors the game harbours and how happy he is to show it to us.

But if you take his word that he really didn't see anyone come in (maybe whoever is behind Eram doesn't need to use the door), and look at the context of his life as this lonely guy suddenly seeing the god who gave him purpose as their toy, and brought him to life with the fountain, and understand that yeah, he’d be ecstatic.

Then him honestly looking out for Kris at every opportunity, even before he saw them again, makes a lot more sense than an unprovoked backstab.

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Eram has no issue with harming the real kris, both physically and emotionally. Before the fight begins, Eram taunts Kris, goes along with the game that's slowly changing from a standard rpg to a horror show about Kris's life and struggles.

If the player is on the weird route, they even accuse Kris of being a hypocrite, saying they’re blaming the soul for all the harm they caused, trying to feel better about themselves. And in the fight against them Kris takes real damage and can die.

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If Ramb were actually the one behind eram, then he was lying when he was looking out for what's best for Kris even when they weren't there… because? He alienated himself by constantly lying about caring for Kris… because??... and him letting himself die for us to continue having the fun he’s sure we're having… just to make fun of us- why??

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Remember that pippins who tells us all about how much ramb sucked and everyone hated him- If there was malice in Ramb’s intentions or behind his actions before we entered the dark world, that pippins would be the last person to hide it from us! Y’know, cus they hate him!!

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Ramb’s story is empty on purpose, it's supposed to be like this. It's supposed to give you the feeling of “this isn't all he is, right?” It's abnormally sad and I wish I could say that this is just me going overboard with my analysis of him, but this is literally just his actions and what we were told about him.

Ramb was written as the red herring for this chapter's secret boss, to me the twist about him was that after all of that he ended up to not be important, that after all of the hints and the winks, it turns out he doesn't know shit.

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Making him the person behind a character that clearly knows a lot and doesn't much care for Kris's well-being, erasing and warping the sincerity of everything he did, would take away from the gut punch that his last conversation with Kris or the explanation from that Pippins is trying to give us.

It would make for a hell of a twist, but is it worth it narratively? Does it make sense? Like no not at all. We're learning about this sad older guy trying to make the one person he’s sure still likes him happy no matter the cost, even if it costs him his life.

Just for a twist that he thinks they're weird for enjoying the games that he wanted them to play??

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So if Ramb isn't eram, who is?

I don't know, this post is about Ramb!!

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But I do have a guess that I'm rather confident about. I won't go into detail about it here cus i already derail this post at every opportunity, and also I want to write another dissertation of the mantle games specifically, separate from Ramb, so I'll save this for another time.

But in short, it’s Friend. And this was our first real look at them as a character and their role and purpose in this story.

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Red flags (the red stands for “is this the secret boss?”)

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I'm sure that a large majority of first time players looked at this manlet going on and on about “freedom”, and immediately thought that he’ll be the secret boss. Since, y’know, that was by design!

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Ramb was written to tick all the boxes of a secret boss. he’s short, hinted at being knowledgeable about things he shouldn't be, “freedom”, constantly referring to kris by name, quoting both Jevil and Spamton, playing a role only outside the main story, hell even the fact that he speaks differently than the rest of the darkners-

We're meant to look at him and immediately assume that at some point we’ll fight him and get the shadow crystal. Just like we assumed we’ll seal the fountain at the end of the chapter, and get a light world segment before going back home, watch Kris rip out their soul, and roll credits.

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Chapter 3 throws all of that out the window! And Ramb is a part of it. We assumed we know the way secret bosses work and will play out for the rest of the game, a part of the “Deltarune formula” that we were so convinced of. But we were wrong!

The way chapter 3 flirts with it and then completely shatters it and our expectations of what will be is a part of why i love these games so much.

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When a player stumbles upon a petrified Ramb, the thought that they messed up the sequence that leads up to the secret boss might cross their mind. While a player who got to the end of the sword game and watched as Ramb disappeared after the shadow mantle was acquired might feel confused;

yeah i just finished a cool mini boss, but that's hardly a secret boss, and i didn't even get a shadow crystal. wasn't that the lead up to something with the little guy?

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And when the lord of screens is cleaved red by blade is when it all shatters- we’d assume that after the fight with Tenna, Ralsei and Susie will talk to him, he’ll want to come to our castle town, we seal the fountain, ect ect. But instead, he falls to the ground, unconscious, and we are faced with the knight.

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We don't get to seal the fountain, we don't get a light world segment, and we don't get to see Kris rip us out. We don't get a secret boss. Deltarune was never meant to be predicted!

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Ramb, as the character that he is, is a part of the aforementioned flirting with the concept of a formula. Cus we do get a weird little guy who's spouting nonsense and acting odd- but he's not the secret boss, because we don't get one this chapter.

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(you might say that the knight is the secret boss… but aren't those supposed to be like… secret? The battle with the knight is unavoidable, and CAN be beaten without the shadow mantle if you just don't get hit- so… it's just a regular battle like Tenna or Queen. Just an extremely tough one that you're meant to die to at the end.

If you survive for long enough you get a weapon and a crystal, but guys-

The fight isn’t hidden. It's unavoidable. It can be beaten even without the shadow mantle. The flavor text “The air crackles with freedom” doesn’t show up in the fight. The knight doesn't have the freedom leitmotif in its theme.

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Before the chapter came out I was lamenting on what “no mantle, no crystal.” means. I thought that we’d acquire the shadow mantle somehow and only then will the battle be able to trigger, like without it there wouldn't even be a fight! (Like how you can’t climb without the gear that jackenstein gives you.)

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I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't expect all the chapters to play out exactly the way we thought, not having a standard secret boss encounter this chapter was intentional, and there's no real reason to try and fit the knight or Eram into boxes they don't fit-

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So… what all this talk about Ramb as if he actually was the secret boss? If he truly is just a red herring gotcha moment side character npc, why the 16K words essay?

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As much as I want to keep my expectations grounded, there are certain things that don't fit the description of just “red herring”. I truly wish he was just that, and could be spared from the horrors of being a shadow crystal bearer, or being a significant character in this story (that never seems to be easy), and I could be spared from writing the rest of this.

But there are just too many loose ends, questions, information we were given for seemingly no reason- that make me wonder what Toby has in mind.

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Red flags 2 (the red stands for “is he okay”)

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This section will go through and analyse the more emotional aspects of his character and what he is in this story. Less “why was he put here” and more “how does he feel about being put here”. The feels, if you will.

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Let’s start by bringing up the infamous roast session;

While we do learn a lot about Ramb when talking directly to him, we learn a whole lot more after he’s gone, from the random pippins that seems to stand in for the rest of the darkners that knew him.

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First of all, just the fact that we learn more about ramb from someone else rather than himself says a lot. I already mentioned it in the character analysis part, but he seems to never really focus on himself during our conversations with him, and would much rather talk about Kris and what they want and how they feel, in a way that is reminiscent of ralsei.

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One of the differences between them being that while ralsei is truly trying his best to look for kris through our inputs on their behavior, building them up and cheering us both on,

ramb, thanks to how confident he is, thinks he knows exactly what kris wants without second guessing himself for a second (until the very end)

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(he was somehow right? Which adds to how he was made to make people think he’ll be the secret boss because he knew Kris wanted “freedom”. but this is just his lucky assumption, and has to do with what games Tenna is allowing Kris to play, not how Kris wants to be free from our control. Ramb had no idea.)

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(not to even get into how the mantle games vs Tenna’s version of them are a meta commentary on Deltarune’s linear story and how breaking out of if and achieving “freedom” comes at a great cost for the characters, that is a WHOLE other conversation and we’re talking about power strip mental health right now not this-)

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Just for a second, I wanna bring up the fact that he's a plugboy. While yes the plugboys from chapter 2 do differ from each other visually, they’re all clearly the same darkner species, and they all resemble plug types that would be of the same, mostly american socket type.

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While Ramb is a European plug type. He’s fundamentally different. (Note how different Ramb looks to the other plugboys, and his smiling expression vs the original plugboys naturally ‘surprised’ look)

It's impossible to connect an American plug to this type of socket. What I'm trying to say is; he couldn’t connect with anyone.

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Back when I played chapter 3 for the first time and learned Ramb was from the library, I thought it was really weird. What, he was essentially kidnapped and no one in chapter 2 said anything?

No one mentioned a plug named “ramb”, not even talked about a purple plugboy who used to live here. Not even “a plugboy” who’s now gone. I shrugged it off as extremely light retconning, maybe he was written after chapter 2 was completed.

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But when I think about it now, it makes total sense. The reason he didn't seem to mind being taken from his original dark world, his home, the reason he adores Kris so much, and why no one in cyber world mentioned him or said anything about him being gone;

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it's because he didn't matter to anyone back there either. The first time he felt loved and wanted was as Kris's toy.

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Of course he'd get attached to them, I'm honestly surprised he isn't constantly imposing himself on us- there isn't a single point in the game where you have to talk to him, if you never choose to do that, you don't even learn his name.

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Similarly to Tenna, Ramb clung to the past, to that time in his life he felt happy and loved. He couldn't (or wouldn't) move on.

No one in Cyber world liked him, no one in the dreemurr house liked him, so he gave up. He no longer tried to make connections with new people. Instead of retaining who he is and living for himself, even if no one likes it, he let himself get stuck in the memories of being loved, once, a long time ago.

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Inside, he was probably stone already.

Back to the infamous roast session, specifically to the last thing that was said about him there;

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“Inside, he was probably stone already.”

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Have you ever seen a more obvious depression metaphor?

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In chapter 3, a darkner turning to stone was revealed to be connected to a mental and emotional state, and not just where the object is originally from, which to be honest, in retrospect makes a lot more sense.

(What if an object was somewhere it didn't belong when a fountain was created, then brought back to the place they belong, would they turn to stone just because they happen to be somewhere else first? Also turning to stone being more about feelings just fits these games doesn't it. anyway)

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One of the very first things that we learn about Ramb, straight from him, is how Kris and Asriel brought him to their house from the library, maybe around the time Noelle and Kris played make believe with other objects from there and the unused classroom.

But that's all we learn from him about why he's here and how he feels about it. Which is to say we learn nothing because he never elaborates about himself-

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Then, after he’s turned to stone, we learn from the pippins that after Ramb was brought here by kris, he cared about them so much that he made sure the others are thinking about them and what's best for them too, because to him their plans weren’t good enough for kris. He wanted the very best for them.

His fixation on Kris and his condescending attitude that was perceived as ego isolated him as he turned insufferable in their eyes.

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Tenna wanted to get rid of him, no one liked his humor, he rarely got any customers, and no one will even care that he’s gone. Other newcomers in the house fit in fine, while he never truly belonged. The pippins is relieved if you tell them that you don't wanna hear more about him.

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Turning to stone on the inside. Being stone as you still continue to live. A darkner turns to stone when they feel like they don't belong, when even if they try their hardest to fit in, they don't have a place that’s for them where they are. When their connections can't save them and they want to be somewhere else, someone else.

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Ramb felt like he didn't belong here so badly that the feeling manifested, turning him to stone from the moment the fountain opened, maybe even before.

It's depression. Moreover, it's like smiling depression- he never lets us see any of it, he smiles and is friendly with us, there's no reason to think anything is wrong until you learn more about his situation.

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Kinda reminds you of someone, right?

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“How about the usual?”

That joke should be familiar to true truck freaks;

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“i’ll take the usual.”

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It's the same joke Sans made when he first came to Grillby’s. The differences being that while sans told it as a first time customer, Ramb told it as a first time bartender. And of course, people laughed at Sans's joke, and immediately accepted him as the old timer he joked about being, while no one laughed with Ramb.

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The similarities between sans and Ramb are kinda like when you learn a new word and start seeing it everywhere;

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They're both shorties

They both mask their depression with humor and an unassuming, modest attitude

They both constantly smile

They both wink a lot

Both are in worlds they don't belong in

Both never go into detail about themselves

Both refer to the player character as a friend immediately

Both seem to build up all they are around someone else (Sans with Papyrus and Ramb with Kris)

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It's not that this implies they know each other or anything- the only thing these similarities tell me is that we’re given more about Ramb's personality and ��vibe’ through a character he’s similar to and we're already familiar with.

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Like, what if sans didn't have papyrus constantly at his side? What if no one liked his jokes? What if he couldn't make friends? What if he didn't have the ability to control where he went? What if he felt truly, deeply, alone?

While their personalities and circumstances are obviously not identical, I think these similarities are very interesting.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

(Just for the sake of not mischaracterizing sans, we're in 2025 not 2016, I wanna clarify that I'm aware a big part of sans' pain stems from his inability to go anywhere outside Undertale as a universe (wherever or whatever “going back” means), but I was thinking more like. What if he was just stuck inside MTT resort, y’know?)

—-

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Implications that he doesn’t value himself as a person

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If you were suddenly face to face with the one person who ever liked you, after years of being apart, if under their gaze, you felt more appreciated as a person than you have in all the years since you've last seen them, what would you do?

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I'd hope to god your answer isn't anything close to what Ramb did.

Because this guy gave up on so much of his life for Kris, even before he saw them again, until he gave up his life for them completely.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

In his last moments with us, he continues to try and make sure Kris has fun.

Knowing he will soon turn to stone, as far he knows, forever, He still continues to try and please Kris.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

He’ll watch out for Kris for as long as he's conscious enough to see and speak.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

He sees his own uncooperative body not as a detriment to himself, but a bother for Kris, who now has to shove him out of the way, because he started to die before he could unblock the entry to the room.

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Instead of doing anything for himself before he fully turns to stone, he chooses to set up one last game for us. His smile never falters and he wishes us a fun time.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

I mentioned this before, but this part of his behavior is very reminiscent of Ralsei.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Ralsei’s beliefs about himself and how much of a person he should be allowed to be finally started to get challenged in chapters 3 & 4, to the relief of everyone who knew he wasn't evil.

But before those beliefs started to get questioned by the game, he constantly allowed himself to be walked over, hurt, and ignored by everyone.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

The way he behaved was incredibly off putting, making a large portion of the community think he’s secretly the villain and will have a heel turn in the story where he backstabs us all- but it turns out he hid information from us because he views the knowledge he has as a burden. He doesn't want us to know what he knows because he cares about us.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

He’s okay with getting hurt, he’s okay with taking pain meant for us, protecting us from harm's way, because he doesn't yet view himself as a person worth protecting. He doesn't even view himself as a person.

When we learned this, suddenly all the oddities about him and the way he acted made sense. No one still believes he’s secretly evil.

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Ramb is similar in a way. He views himself as a darkner, an object, first, and a person second. He exists for his lightner, the kid who gave him purpose as a toy, an item of play and fun.

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He’s aware that in reality, he's just a power strip. and because he knows that while the lightners change, darkners don't, he understands that Kris views him as obsolete. He doesn't see himself as someone (something) worth saving.

His purpose, a darkners purpose, is to assist his lightner. His self proclaimed purpose is to let Kris have the fun they want. What he wants is irrelevant, he shouldn't even have needs or wants in the first place, there's no reason for it.

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It's okay if he’s dying. It's okay if he’s already stone on the inside. He keeps setting up the levels in the console room because we keep coming back to play, because we’re having fun. Whatever Ramb wants doesn't matter as much as Kris's fun does.

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While Ralsei thankfully has Susie and Kris by his side to constantly remind him that he matters, until the day he’ll hopefully fully believe it himself, Ramb is completely alone. He doesn't have anyone who cares about him, likes him, or would cry for him once he’s gone.

He hasn't yet realized, or maybe he’s never been told that he matters outside of his “role” as a darkner. And maybe he never will.

—--------

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

No one will shed a tear for him

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

This part may be a bit more speculative of me and not really something that's out right said, but it's important for me to mention

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Before you finish the mantle game and Ramb disappears, if you hug the hall in front of where he guarded the door, you walk through a hidden hallway and enter his stand.

You can watch Susie and Ralsei play the game they were talking about, but you're unable to interact with them. Just watch as they’re having fun without you.

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It's an adorable Susie and Ralsei moment that I'm glad we got, look at them go! It's nice to actually see the characters doing the things they say they do. But i think that maybe we got the option to walk here for another reason

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

This is Ramb’s point of view. His name is above where you stand. This is how he experiences the world. He's in the background, in the darkest area of the green room, looking at all the folks coming and going, laughing, smiling, bonding, while he’s unable to join.

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Fully his own decision by the way, you can leave this room and go back to your adventures with your friends, he can leave his stand too.

Not that anyone is waiting for him to, though. So what's the point?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Loneliness is overwhelming. It's an all encompassing feeling that paints everything and everyone you see, and once it's got its talons in you, it begins to feel impossible to overcome.

Even at times where you could fight it and win, if it sunk in already, it may just feel pointless, and you chose to lose a winnable battle.

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I doubt that in the entirety of Kris's house, there isn't a single darkner who would, at the very least, tolerate him. At best, genuinely like him and enjoy being his friend. But ramb knew loneliness in Cyber world, and its familiar sting found him in the Dreemurr house. Why try again?

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it's not like he needs it from the other darkners anyway, right? After all, he has someone who likes him. His lightner likes him, and that's more than enough.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

It's okay if they've not seen each other in years. It's okay if they never will again after the fountain is sealed. He has fulfilled his purpose in making sure they're happy.

That's more than enough. Nothing matters more than their happiness, not even him.

—-----

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

So let's walk through what we can assume his life was like;

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He arrived at the library, as the only European plug there. Maybe he was accidentally purchased by someone who didn't notice that he had a socket type that they couldn't use with the rest of the plugs there.

He couldn't bond with any object in the library because he wasn't compatible with them, maybe they just didn't get along or the conversations didn't flow. No one there really cared about him, and he remained alone.

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Then, one day, a monster and a human decided to take him and bring him home with them.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

The human treated him like any one of their toys, and they played with him. He assisted them in having fun. He felt wanted, appreciated, useful, this was the first time in his life that he felt loved. He finally had a purpose.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

The other objects in this house just didn't get it, did they? this wonderful human was kind enough to give himself and all of them a home, they should be everyone's priority!

He tried to get them to focus their efforts on making the human happy, but nothing they ever did was good enough for them, he felt like he was the only one that really knew them, the only one who cared.

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The other objects started to get sick of him. and while they adjusted to their new life here just fine, finding friends and things to do, a place for themselves, he didn't. Again, he couldn't make a single friend.

He stuck to his beliefs, never questioning himself; if caring for my lightner is what got me to this point, then I don't regret it for a second. The one person who ever loved him deserves the best the world has to offer. He did not flinch when, from within, slowly, he began to turn to stone.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

The human grew up, and stopped playing with toys. Ramb continued his life as it was before, always thinking of his lightner, wondering how they're doing.

Until, one day, he saw them opening a dark fountain.

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His lightner is back! What joy! The one person who ever loved him, the one who gave him purpose, is right here!

He wondered why they opened a fountain right now, maybe it was fun that they were missing? And with the mind-numbing games his boss is making them play they're not getting any fun anytime soon.

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So he decided to fulfill his purpose. He set up the game that Tenna changed into that snooze-fest. The original version. The kind of game where you get choices. The story isn't linear, you can fight your way to the ending, or make friends that carry you through it.

(not that he knew of the controller he set up disappearing, and a corrupted one being left in the hallway by someone else)

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But if they choose not to play the game, that’s fine too. If they actually are having enough fun on Tenna’s game show, then that's fine. He won't force them to play his game, his purpose is to make sure Kris is having fun, not to be the fun they have.

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But if they do want to play his game? He’ll make sure they can until his very last moment. As he’s fully turning to stone, he doesn't care. His personhood doesn't matter, it never did. The only thing of value he has ever done was assist his lightner in their fun, way back when.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

He just wants them to have the fun they deserve, again.

—--------

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

That's who he is in the story of chapter 3. A lonely darkner stuck in the past, who gives himself up for you to be able to have the fun you used to have, the fun you had back when he was useful, unwilling to move on from when he was loved by you.

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In a more meta sense though, he was also the perfect secret boss red herring;

A lonely, abandoned toy, with unexplored thoughts and feelings about his worth as a toy and what he means in the grand scheme of things. Seeing him in this chapter was supposed to make us believe, because of past experiences with these types of guys in this game, that he’ll be the secret boss.

But he wasn't, that’s a part of his character of being forgotten, and it's intentional.

--------------

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Okay, so he's not the secret boss, he's not Eram, and he was written to just be a red herring.

That's all he is in this story.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Right?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He's just a red herring, right? (well…)

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Then:

Why did we need to know so much about him?

Why isn't he in castle town?

Why doesn't he fully turn to stone?

Why was it important that we know he saw Kris make the fountain?

Why was it important to imply that something happened to him after the sword route?

…Why doesn't the knight make the air crackle with freedom?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

----------

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why did we need to know so much about him?

Beyond being a red herring, we learn so much about him as a character that doesn't go anywhere. Like his story was supposed to be something but got cut short.

Imagine if after Spamton gave you all this weird information in his shop, he turned to stone and THEN all the Addisons would show up and talk about him. It feels empty, like something was meant to be there, alongside all the information. some big break or moment that would give the character we slowly learned about over the course of the chapter closure.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

If he truly isn't and wasn't meant to be anything significant, then why are we given so much information on him? Why are we being made to wonder about him? Why are we being made to care?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Even in runs where you don't play the mantle games, and all Ramb was to you was the funny little guy giving you prizes in the green room, you end up getting so much information about him out of nowhere. I know first time players that were genuinely weirded out by it- why is it there by a point where his importance really wouldn't matter to you??

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

But that could be a part of him being a red herring, we're learning about him as a character and thinking “oh this guy is absolutely the secret boss”, then the twist is that he isn't.

And that's true! That seems to be the idea Ramb was created for. But I wouldn't write all this if there wasn't more

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why isn't he in castle town?

We didn't get too many unique characters in chapter 3; Tenna, Lanino, Elnina, Shuttah, and Ramb are really the only significant ones, they all even show up at the beginning of the chapter before the first board.

Ramb is one of the 5 unique characters we got in chapter 3, they're all in castle town, except him, no matter if we do the sword games or not. there was no reason not to put him there and give him like 2 lines of unremarkable dialogue.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Spamton was a unique character in chapter 2, but he doesn't show up in castle town either, even if we don't fight him as spamton neo.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

“certain bosses are excluded.” as if Ramb was meant to be something he ended up not being.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why doesn't he fully turn to stone?

(original image by @/unikhroma)

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

If it was just 1 pixel I wouldn't mention it, if it was two I'd be surprised that the flood fill tool the deltarune team is using is so uncooperative. If it was three I'd raise an eyebrow but not proclaim anything.

It's four. It's four uncolored, obvious pixels on his petrified sprite??? One of them is a part of his mouth and very visible????

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Not to mention how his eyes are still black like they were before- when lancer turns to stone, the big spade on his face that acts as an expressive mask of sorts turns gray like the rest of him, making him look much more like a statue.

But ramb looks awake, just frozen and grayscale. (I find it interesting that in his half stone sprite his left eye is obscured in shadow, would it be black or gray?)

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

And why is it that when we interact with him behind his stand, instead of getting “Some kind of stone statue”, we get blocked by the pippins, as if when we’d interact with it we wouldn't get that description?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why was there a need to imply he's still conscious? Why did we need to wonder if he heard everything that was said about him?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why was it important that we know he saw Kris make the fountain?

While it is very possible that other characters are aware that Kris made the fountain- even Tenna, who's the ruler of this dark world, doesn't outright call Kris their creator.

For some reason, this little british guy, supporting cast member no.5, is the only darkner as of yet, in the entire first half of the game, to knowingly speak with their creator on screen, and outright say they saw them make the fountain.

Why him? Why now? Why no one else?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why was it important to imply that something happened to him after the sword route?

When we exit the console room after getting the shadow mantle, Ramb is gone. He could've been outside as he was before, just fully turned to stone and giving the same prompt of “Some kind of stone statue”. But sure, maybe he's gone for tonal reasons. We leave right after the scene with Susie after all.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

But it was so important to Toby that we know Ramb didn't just walk away off screen or disappear without a reason, that he gave the dust bunny in the s rank room a unique shocked sprite so we’d know to talk to it.

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

“I was so scared, Ramb was..” doesn't tell us much. Did something scary happen to him? Did he do something that scared them?

And why do we need to think about that in the first place? Isn't he supposed to just be an irrelevant statue by this point? Why was it important enough to be told to us?

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Why doesn't the knight make the air crackle with freedom?

Think about it. When spamton turns into the dealmaker/puppet scarf he becomes a little glimmer and falls down to us, and we get both the item he turned into and the shadow crystal he held.

The part that chipped off the knight's sword was the Black Shard, not the shadow crystal. They were just holding it, it wasn't a part of them.

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And, they don't have the freedom motif in their theme…

And “The air crackles with freedom” doesn't show up during their fight…

and they’re an unavoidable battle, unlike Jevil, Spamton, or Gerson.

And… They’re repeatedly said to have arrived late. Almost as if, if they had arrived in time, and Tenna wouldn't have had to stall the show so much, they could do what they came to do, whatever that was.

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The knight didn't mean for things to happen the way they did!

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I think the implication is that, if the knight wasn't late, one of the probable many dastardly activities it would be up to, would be to give Ramb the shadow crystal it was holding.

Interesting too that their plan this chapter is prophesied to fail (lord of screens, cleaved red by blade), while we're trying to break the prophecy.

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If the prophecy was broken this chapter and the knight did all they wanted perfectly, would we have fought Ramb?

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You might notice that most of these end with questions, and that's the point. We're not being told everything there is to know. For some reason, we're being made to ask questions.

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I'll be honest, if you make some assumptions you could probably find answers to most of these, but I can't, even with assuming things like; he's Eram, or he's truly not someone we're meant to care for- (those cancel each other out btw) Find an explanation to everything.

If you figure out an answer to one, another falls apart.

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And I'm not trying to find the answers to these questions, I'm just pointing them out, because for an irrelevant side character those are a shit ton of loose ends. That's what's weirding me out! Why are we being made to ask questions about someone who's made to be insignificant??

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This isn't a Mike situation where the answer was just “we don't know” and a pun about “real mike” (brilliant, btw)

Mike was a question for years at this point, but he had no answer because there wasn't meant to be one, we made the question of “who's mike” up!!

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But with Ramb we're given the character and the questions at the same time, something is being built, but there's no way for us to know what right now. For now we just have the questions.

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Isn't he a cryptic shopkeeper and that's it?

Not really? he doesn't have a shop menu, there's no option to sell him anything, there's no extended talk option, and you can't even buy anything from him and it's being pointed out in game;

“Gotta use that vending machine though, Tenna doesn't like us… touching the points.”

“Mixing drinks for himself, he wasn't allowed to handle the points”

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He's the least shopkeeper a shopkeeper ever was. Even the old man in chapter 4 had a more proper shop.

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Alright, so he’s a shopkeeper narratively, not literally. the Seam to Jevil, Swatch for Spamton.

Is he Eram’s shopkeeper?

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Seam hinted at Jevil’s existence the very first time we met them, they gave us a part of the key to his cell, and once we beat him they expanded on his story and downfall.

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Swatch hinted at someone stealing their look, breaking into the mansion, they shush you up if you bring up the basement. And after you beat spamton, they tell you what they knew of him, and how they saw everything as it went wrong.

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Ramb didn't know Eram existed. He didn't understand why Kris thought someone was in the back with them, he didn't see anyone come in.

In Ramb's mind he just gave Kris a classic NES game like the ones they played as a kid, where you can go around with your sword and level up, or play peacefully, completing side quests and talking to the characters.

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With how much he cares about kris, it's obvious he had no idea there would be a harmful taunting creature in there, calling their name and changing the game to give them a worse time, he didn't have to tell us that to his knowledge no one was back there with them, but he still did.

Sometimes things should be taken at face value.

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The shopkeepers to secret bosses dynamic seems to exist so that we could learn more about the secret bosses stories and about them as characters. We've seen two instances where the shopkeeper and the secret boss knew each other, but because they're there just to give us more information on them, then they don't really have to.

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Ramb could’ve given us information in a backwards way, saying things that include game or lore hints that would make sense to us but still show that he has no idea he's filling the role of a guide.

(think about Noelle's line in chapter 4; “we’ll know it's there if it makes noise.” she didn't know the soul was in the closet, she didn't know she was giving the player a hint! She was just telling Susie that if they heard a mouse squeak or something then they’ll know it entered Dess’s room.)

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And yet Ramb wasn't even that! We didn't learn anything about Eram from him, even after reading all his lines of dialogue about the game!!!

Ramb is not the battleable secret boss obviously, but he’s not even the shopkeeper to one!

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What he is in this story, and will he be more? (Conclusion)

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So… what is he supposed to be? Is he just a red herring? Is his only purpose in this story to throw us off and be a part of this chapter’s expectation subversion?

So why the loose ends? Why the information?

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Like I said before, deltarune is not meant to be predicted. It can't be! Whatever all of this was for, if it was for anything, what it will be, when it will be and how, it's all up to toby.

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Originally, I wanted to bring up a theory I really believe in about the future of deltarune. If you're familiar with mollystars’ “the device theory”, you'll know all about it. New-game-plus.

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(In short, it's about how currently we're playing by the prophecy, (think of it as a flawed undertale neutral run), and once we reach the end of deltarune, we could break the prophecy, and have an extra epilogue chapter, or play the whole game again, and have a timeline where the prophecy is broken. (like resetting a neutral undertale ending and playing pacifist))

(watch the device theory trilogy on yt if you're interested, it's awesome and like 10 and a half hours long.)

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At first, this theory had a whole segment here, explaining it at length, and why ramb seems to fit it perfectly-

But… I decided not to do that. Sure, Ramb’s weird existence kinda does make me think about the new game plus theory, but… no. I'm not gonna assume anything more about him.

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We were given the character, then the questions. We can rack our brains trying to find the answers and feel as confident about them as we can be, but we were so off about Tenna before the chapters came out you guys.

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A lot of people tend to dismiss Ramb as just another character in this chapter that happened with nothing much more to him.

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The purpose of this essay, alongside compiling the information about Ramb and analyzing it and his character, was to point out and bring attention to the questions that his odd existence in this chapter raises, not try to answer them.

just show how strange it is that this character, that's supposed to be a red herring and nothing more, has this many questions regarding him, his existence in this story, and his unclear end.

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Something is being planned here, and we have no way of knowing what.

All we can do is sit with this character, the questions, the loose ends, the clues … and wonder.

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Posts i used as a reference, or influenced my view on things, or are just awesome to read if you want more Ramb:]

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What's the Deal with Ramb? - by koimethehorizon:

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Why it's important that ramb isn't an American plug - by Askerror87’s;

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We are Studying Ramb Again - by lost-seal:

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Thinking about ramb by meatcarnival3000:

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RAMB VS ERAM - by frankent1ts:

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Ok, we need to talk about Ramb - by todaslocas:

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(Short but really influenced how I think about Ramb and Tenna's relationship!) - by meatcarnival3000:

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Ramb tenna lore Supercut - by unikhroma:

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thank you for reading! <3

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#deltarune #deltarune chapter 3 #ramb #deltarune ramb #ramb deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune analysis #what more tags can i add lol.#if theres any segment you read from this please read “red flags 2 (the red stands for is he okay)” its my favorite one #this was a labor of love #i was worried that how much i worked on this would make me start disliking ramb #too much of a good thing y'know #but no. im just excited to share this with people. my best attempt at wording why he plagues my thoughts #im so happy i managed to post it this weekend. im gonna have no free time this entire month-#ive actually still got some drawings i wanna post but theyre not done yet. ill see how much i can get done today before i go radio silent #if there are any grammatical errors please ignore them <3 im just a little guy #if you take the time to read this entire behemoth i literally cannot thank you enough. ur aWESOME <3333333 #please take breaks tho if youre planning on doing that #:'] <33 #alright thats it no more stalling posting this by writing tags #i hope you enjoy! <3

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asterdex · 1 month ago

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i've seen people joke about it but... is there any kind of consensus within the community regarding the player and Gaster's relationship? is it something that everybody just naturally agrees on and doesn't talk about it because there's no point to it or am I just going crazy on my own??

like yeah sure, first and foremost, we have the tweets written by Gaster himself and addressing the player, either rejoicing in seeing us showing the same kind of interest and fascination in him that he does for us, or describing how wonderful and special that "connection" we have is, how it makes him feel to be connected with us and how specifically "beautiful" and "exciting" it is for him to enter in contact with us.

Or talking about HE and WE specifically feel about each other, and going on about creating something together, as partners- i mean as a team.

And then we have the Goner Maker sequence, during which he keeps going on and on about how "wonderful" our creation is, guiding us step by step towards the realization of the EMBODIMENT of a player's freedom in a video game : their own avatar. Gaster is the only one in this game who is actively giving the player that much freedom, who is trying so hard to accomodate the player, to fulfill their wants and needs.

(unsure if it still needs to be said nowaday but no, the person discarding our vessel isn't Gaster, they talk in a different typer (given the fact Gaster's typers are always 666 or 667, it seems important to note that this new person talk in typer 2), not using any upper-cases, and not remotely talking in the same way (in japanese even more obviously than in english : Gaster talks in broken katakana japanese with some kanji while the other voice talk in hiragana and complex kanji. they also don't use the same second person pronouns when talking to the player), so yes, Gaster is STILL the character who seems to (at least in appearance) want THE MOST the player to be the most confortable possible, out of every other character in this game)

This idea of Gaster giving the player AS MUCH freedom as he can, in a world that seemes to be DESIGNED for us not to have any freedom, is first obviously supported by the way he is takling about "CREATING A NEW FUTURE" with our help, suggesting that OUR power as a player should be able to change the future and that it is in his interests for us to find the freedom leading us to that "NEW FUTURE", but it is also implied with the fact it seems that it is Gaster who is giving us access to three different save files, as we can see him talk and comment each one of our actions in the menu of an incomplete Ch1.

Gaster is ON THE PLAYER'S SIDE. or at the very least, he's doing a very good job at pretending he is. And it makes sense for him to be the only character who seems to INCONDITIONALLY support the player : he's the only one who seems to truly understand WHAT is the player, at least more than every other characters in this game. (there's an argument to be made about Ralsei, who seems to also only want the player's happiness, but 1. he doesn't really have the power to accomodate the player like Gaster does, so each one of his attempt to please us either end in just giving us fake hope, or being cancelled out by Susie (who seems to naturally oppose the player whenever she does something), and 2. unlike Gaster, Ralsei is CLEARLY suffering from always trying to please everyone else, especially the player, for whom he believes he needs to play the role of a LITERAL background character who's only here to serve and make them happy. Ralsei suffers from trying to please the player, while it seems like Gaster only gets enjoyment out of it, repeatedly stating that being connected to us is as wonderful for him as it is for us)

And the way Gaster views the player has become a bit clearer with his Ch3 and 4 messages, that can be used on top of his usual Game Over dialogues to suggest that he is watching us play at all times, is rooting for us, knows things about how this world works that we don't and is willing to give hints when he feels like it is necessary, and can be genuinely impressed by "our power", supposedly our determination and/our our pure game skills.

His Game Over message could even be interpreted as him trying to emotionally manipulate us into trying again, even when we told him we've given up, telling us how our absence led the world to be "covered in darkness", before cueing a very sad rendition of his own theme before closing the game after 66 seconds. Bro is literally looking at us through the screen with the saddest look in his eyes trying to coax us into trying again by making us feel bad. Maybe he DOES really need us as much as he says he does.

And maybe the most interesting recent dialogues of them all, at the end of Ch4, he congratulates the player for making it this far, quickly mentions how long we will need to wait for the next chapter/connection... Before refering to Deltarune as "HIS" DELTARUNE??

Up until that very moment, Gaster has always talked about "the future", "this world" as a 'team effort', always including us in the realization of it all, making us feel like we WERE an important part of whatever scheme he has in mind... Hell, sometimes he even talks as if THE PLAYER'S actiosn were actually ALSO his ("SHALL WE HASTEN?" against the Knight, when in reality the player is doing all the hard work here), which didn't seem strange because as a TEAM, that kind of way to speak is pretty normal. but in this moment, it somewhat feels like Gaster is trying, or at least thinking about taking ownership over everything "we" have created together. Was it his intention since the beginning, or is he just stating to love this game/world so much he's subconsciously seeing it as "his" and having troubles sharing it with the other person who helped reaching its realization? or maybe are we not completely understanding our role in his plan yet?

And all of this, all of this weird undertone of codependant relationship between Gaster and the player, this mutual fascination and genuine feelings for one another, whatever those feelings can be, ALL OF THIS without even talking about the Demon/Angel parallels we could ALSO talk about regarding how the relationship between those two transdimensional entity could go.

Let's assume the player is the Angel. (The Angel is said to "light up the path" of believers, the player's soul's distinctive power is to produce light on its own. The Angel is said to be "watching over" the world and people, the player's pov seems to come from the sky, from "HEAVEN" some could say. The Angel is traditionally represented without facial features, as Noelle and Dess's doll's description at the hospital points out, and the we are unable to see how the Angel looks like in the prophecy, which would make a lot of sense if the Angel was supposed to be the player, someone who, inherently, has to be faceless to represent ALL of us. The player's soul gets trapped under an Angel doll at Noelle's house. The Titan we see in Ch4 uses a lot of the imagery typically associated with the Angel, and first appears with an image suggesting a "real human face". That is SOME of the reasons why it's easy to assume the player is the Angel, at least in SOME versions of DR's reality (for example it would be possible for Noelle to take the role of the Angel in a Weird Route or something, the same way the Angel was two people at the same time in UT ; one benevolent Angel, and one Angel of Death, depending on the run the player is doing)).

Gaster has always been associated with demonic symbolism, the most obvious of which being the repeated connection he has with the number "6" : the typer associated with him is 666, in both UT and DR, his hidden stats in UT are filled with 6s, each one of the funvalues directly calling him by name are all happening between 61 and 65 (which is also why it is so commonly accepted to say that the mystery man from the funvalue 66 is supposed to represent Gaster himself in some way), the theme DARKNESS FALLS, as previously mentionned, is 66s seconds long, etc...

Interestingly enough, supporting the interpretation of these "666" as being the Devil's number, Gaster also made an appearance in the "demon text" of UT during a very short period of time : alongside a text CLEARLY written by Chara, "the demon who comes when people call its name", another line appeared in PRECISELY the version 1.05A of the game, saying "HE IS". (for more information on the demon texts if you are interested here is a post by Underlore talking about it)

It makes sense for Chara to be present in the DEMON text, because they call themself a demon, and it makes sense for Gaster to be there as well, as he's so often associated with the number 6. and ironically enough, while Chara is the demon who comes when people call its name, when we first name them at the beginning of the game, we are UNABLE to write or hear the name of Gaster in most playthrough. In a way, it's as if he's specifically a foil to Chara, the demon who comes when people DOESN'T call its name, haha.

And this makes sense with WHAT Chara is supposed to be : Chara is the player's completionist will, what pushes them to conquer and consume every last bit of a game, leaving nothing left behind them, metaphorically "destroying" worlds for their own entertainment. But, because of his very special status in the game, Gaster just cannot be "consumed" like every other content can ; he is often the very last thing keeping people interested in UT, when everything else has been read and analyzed, only him stays "unsolved", everything one can know and believe to understand about him feeling like a bottomless pit of endless possibilities. Literally the one thing the player needs to satiate Chara. Endless content, because incomplete.

Gaster has always given the player what they wanted, ever since UT. He is in a way the opposite force opposing the player's will to SEE and DO everything, because he is the content they will never be able to SEE and TRULY interact with, but this is this exact force that makes the player feels so connected to the world ; if the content is seemingly endless because unreachable, then the illusion of a fictional world being infinite is achieved. and as a result, the player becomes obsessed with that world that seems oh so real.

Because of this duality between these two, it could be easy to suggest the possibility that Gaster isn't "just" a demon, but The Devil, acting as a counterpart to The Angel, the player. After all, it is Gaster with whom we made a suspicious deal at the very beginning of DR, giving him our SOUL regardless of what the consequences would be.

Who else would offer a deal with such absolute conditions than the Devil itself, the one who is represented by the number 666, the one who we are told to "beware" from the very first time we hear about him.

All of this to say i do not think it would be so wild to assume that, with everything that we know about how the player's and Gaster's goals, wants and ENTIRE EXISTENCES allign but also complete one another, it wouldn't be so out there to believe that maybe, similarly to how Flowey in UT became obsessed with the player because they were the only person existing at a similar plane of existence as him, the player and Gaster would develop very strong feelings for one another, because they are the only ones in this fictional world who see it as a fictional world, the only ones who understand one another, and who can help each other effortlessly, simply by following their own instincts.

TL;DR i ship the player and Gaster and i made it everybody else's problem

#was there a point to all of this #i might just be insane #deltarune #deltarune gaster #wd gaster #deltarune player #player deltarune #<- so cool we're all collectively acting as if they were a character in-game #never done a ship manifesto before... is this how you do it guys. am i doing it right.#if anyone reads all of this im genuinely so sorry for you #deltarune spoilers #deltarune chapter 3&4 spoilers #it is 3AM and im writing about gaster x player because that's the most meaningful thing i can do in my life #go to bed aster #<- theory/analysis/rambling tag ig

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paladinsbrainrot · 9 days ago

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st5 teaser thoughts ☆

ok I know everyone is posting their thoughts about the teaser but I have a lot of findings that I haven't seen many people talk about and would love to share my two cents on !! so many dots have been connecting for me and I really just wanted a place to write everything down / make a few predictions. I'll be skipping over scenes that are pretty self-explanatory and that I don't have any commentary on — these are just what I find most interesting !

as always a warning for potential st5 spoilers. I'll be talking a bit about leaks later on in the post so if that's something you don't want to see please turn away!!

1 -> does anyone remember when the duffers shot-listed st5 with funkos..... well I am extremely confident that these scenes are connected ! for one, all of the characters are the same: will, el, nancy, robin — joyce is on the other side of the room on the intercom — so I am pretty sure that these scenes will take place around the same time. ALSO, in the video with the funkos, the duffers said that they had to pan the camera to end on will, and that eleven says that there are "too many [of something ?]" sorry for not attaching the video — I dug so hard for it and couldn't find it, only the picture, but if I find it I will add it so you can watch it for yourself and see what the hell I'm talking about

earlier on in the scene, mike mentions the fact that a "burn" is commencing. I think this has something to do with the gates/tunnels and/or the demodogs spilling into hawkins again. the gang is probably planning to burn something so that the demodogs or whatever monster is out there won't be able to attack hawkins any further. (this could also be about the military, but I think this is less likely) this is probably why el says that there are "too many" in the scene, as perhaps halfway throughout the plan they realize that they have underestimated the sheer amount of monsters they have to kill and things go south fast.

what I find most interesting about this scene is the fact that they have to pan to WILL.

if you notice in the background of the scene, will appears completely OUT OF IT, eyes rolled back like he's having a vecna vision, or like during s2 when the mind flayer was controlling him via true sight. we know that we eventually get a close up of will in this scene because of this moment later on in the teaser....

(you can tell it's the radio station from the couch)

basically, I'm like 99% sure these scenes take place one after the other and that while they are trying to 'burn' the demodogs/tunnels/whatever, will passes out — maybe because he's still connected to the hive mind and the pain becomes too much. another one of my guesses is that during this burn, will has a vision of some sorts and passes out because of it. the latter theory is only if will isn't still connected to the hivemind, but I think it's obvious he still is.

2 -> I don't really see anyone talking about this scene but I think it is pretty blatant that he is at school here. there's some girls with backpacks in the background and it just looks very school-esque to me. I don't know why but I just wanted to point it out because no one has said anything about it and will being in school again just makes me happy lol. maybe he's sensing henry because of the fact that he also attended hawkins high? OR, since I'm assuming this happens after he and mike drop holly off at school, he senses that something bad happened to her?

3 -> the date on lucas' watch says thursday, november 2nd, 2:12 pm. the official synopsis of st5 stated that the season was set during the week of nov 6, so I'm guessing the series will progressively build up to end on that day since it was the day everything started. maybe I'm reading this wrong so please correct me if I am — but this doesn't make a whole lot of sense because november 2nd in 1987 fell on a monday, not a thursday. I remember when ross first posted this still onto his instagram, people thought it said thursday november 12th, which made a whole lot more sense because that day actually fell on a thursday. but now that we got a closer look at it, it looks very much like a 2 and not a 12, so I'm just weirdly confused??? like what is going on. unless I'm blind and the TH is not actually a TH or means something else entirely. just something I thought was worth mentioning.

4 -> okay first of all,,, this shot is so fucking insane and looks amazing wtf. but I have many thoughts !!! honestly, I am not a super big 'will has powers' truther, but this is just too crazy for me to ignore. not even considering the fact that he's able to jump like that, I think the imagery and symbolism here is pretty undeniable.

I'm like 99% sure after will jumps he doesn't make the jump and falls from the tree like we saw in the bts trailer from last year, which begs the question — how the hell did the demogorgon not catch him??? I think it's pretty telling that the lighting strikes and lines up exactly with will's figure. I don't know if this makes a whole lot of sense but ... isn't there the whole stigma that during thunderstorms you're not supposed to climb trees/be in high places because there's a chance you can get struck by lighting? I'm not saying that this is necessarily happening to will, but him being struck by lighting and then being given some kind of electrokinetic power to fend off the demogorgon kind of makes sense. it would explain how he was able to escape such a brute force and why he was able to talk to joyce in the lights in s1.

5 -> end barrier to the upside down iktr. will byers created hawkins in the ud truthers RISE. will is essentially vecna's "builder" according to the leaked st5 promotional deck so I feel like this isn't too far fetched!!

6 -> maybe my 2nd favourite scene that the teaser has given us. it tells so much but so little. I have so much to say.

let me just start with MAX!!!!! If they are doing what I think they are doing I am going to scream my head off because this is everything I've ever wanted.... something that I wanted to see in s5 ever since 2022 was lucas dragging max's unconscious body out of the hospital so she can be included in whatever plan that they are doing. I'm pretty sure that this actually takes place at the hospital, given the candy striper outfit vickie (?) is wearing, but it is still interesting to me nonetheless. the demodogs have attacked the hospital, and lucas is defo determined to get max out of there in one piece. he will not leave her behind. lumax 😭😭😭😭

I am 90% sure robin is also in this scene. a while ago we got pap photos of lucas (in the same outfit) and robin at the hospital together.

this is probably the scene they were filming that day! it just makes a lot of sense considering the fact that vickie is also here. vickie joining the supernatural plot UGH I have prayed for times like this.

7 -> one of my most anticipated scenes OH MY GOD. this is genuinely such a cool scene and I can't wait to see how it plays out in canon WOW. so.... this is likely the scene where the demogorgon/vecna attacks the wheeler house and when holly gets taken and karen gets injured. fear not I do not think miss karen is dying!!! there were reports of karen getting absolutely MAIMED by a demogorgon that leaked in early feb, but she apparently makes it out okay. but I think that ted is defo a goner in this scene given the way we've had scenes of holly and karen looking out in anguish. plus it would up the stakes a little bit and it just feels like something the duffers would do.

8-> robin with blood on her neck..... she's wearing the same outfit from when she was on the farm & at the hospital so she either gets a lil injured or something goes DOWN in either of those locations. this either happens after the hospital attack scene with lucas + max OR after the barn scene where joyce defends everyone with an axe from a demogorgon. something bloody is DEFO happening in both of those scenes tho.

9 -> is this not the mindflayer........

10 -> first of all RENT IS DUE natalia is acting her ass off here. second of all this is definetly connected to the holly/karen scene and I think I may have connected the Dots about everything.

okay so.... nancy and el arrive at the wheeler house at some point to save face. nancy is wearing the same outfit here that she was wearing in the scene of her at the sink. current running Theory is that holly gets taken by vecna to the upside down/his mindscape and ted dies and karen gets SUBSTANTIALLY injured. nancy probably runs over to her and tries to help her, getting her mom's blood all over her. but I do not think karen dies and here's why!

we see a scene of nancy and mike in the hospital from the bts teaser. you can tell it's the same because there is the same antiseptic, sterile green lighting. they probably rush karen to the hospital and nancy goes with, and she has a scene breaking down near the sink. then we have a scene of nancy and mike on karen's beside while she's unconscious. I don't think karen dies because there's no way they're just looming over karen's dead body in the hospital — she has to be unconscious/ in critical condition otherwise they wouldn't be there. not to mention all the leaked reports that said karen was alive but heavily injured.

11 -> SHOT OF THE DECADE PEOPLE. I have yapped about this scene SOOOOO MUCH on here already but it is just genuinely breathtaking and I love everything about it. the way will looks like he's in genuine defeat and is giving up on something. that or exhaustion. his wet hair. THE FACT THAT HE'S SO SWEATY??? THE TEARS ON HIS FACE????? THE BLUE LIGHT TAKING OVER THE FRAME AS HE ACCEPTS DEFEAT?????? Im normal I'm normal Im normal

I have a few thoughts and possibilities for this scene....

IF they are 'burning' the hive mind again — another exorcism has to take place in order to save will. maybe this is why the scene is SOOO red, because there's so much heat. perhaps we were wrong about loverslakegate all along and the reason why will's abnormally wet is because he's just so sweaty because of the heat. and perhaps mike is there during the exorcism which explains why he is also wet. this makes a LOT of sense to me because we have the scene of the smoke climbing up the radio tower that I mentioned earlier that looks EXTREMELY similar to when the mindflayer was burned out of will in s2.

the blue light is reminding me SO MUCH of police/ambulance lights. I don't know if I fully believe that will is staying with the wheelers (this is a whole other can of worms that I will hopefully try to explain in a later post) but it makes a little sense if maybe he were there with nancy and el when they arrive at the wheelers to save karen and holly? If he's lived with karen for the past year and a half he'd probably have gotten to know her a lot better and would be reasonably upset at her being injured. maybe he's upset with himself for not being able to save her as he passed out during his vision earlier and therefore looks like he's accepting defeat.

12 -> I have no words. Why is he so terrified. WHY. we all know that max and all the other victims have been frightened in vecna's presence but not like this so WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING TO MAKE WILL REACT LIKE THIS???? I genuinely cannot even wrap my head around a proper theory for this one because I don't know why the hell he would be so scared. On the plus side I think this is the first time we've seen will scream and I am super excited #screamqueenwillbyers

13 -> I don't know if anyone pointed this out already but this is robin's arm 😭😭😭😭 my little lesbian running the squawk and being the radio host oh lord I can't do this.

14 -> will is definetly some sort of spy again because I don't know any other reason for this scene lol. ALSO. the transition to the tunnels? absolute cinema. this just makes a lot of sense to me because we know will had true sight in s2 and was able to see through to the tunnels — so whatever is happening here is definetly connected. ALSO! we know that robin, lucas, and mike help the kids escape the military base using the tunnels (from leaks and the script that maya accidentally posted) it's kind of hard to see but i'm pretty sure lucas is running through the tunnels in that scene with two of the kids he is trying to save.

it's worth noting that I think the above scene happens in the tunnels and lucas has blood on him so maybe he's not able to save the kids....

15 -> this scene is very interesting to me as well. first of all — max parallels! second — I think this is at the turnbow mansion. some background info in case anyone doesn't know: the turnbows are supposedly a wealthy family who own the farm. derek is their son. I have a theory that vickie is related to them too but I do not have the time to explain that here lol. my current theory is that the turnbows have something in the house that connects to the tunnels/the gang needs to get a hold of.

we know that erica has dinner there during episode three called 'the turnbow trap'. several other bts photos were posted of the characters in the turnbow's basement. MY prediction is that they use erica as a distraction to sneak into the turnbow's basement. derek turnbow supposedly has a crush on erica (from leaks) and so it makes sense that they would know each other and that erica could get herself over for dinner. during this dinner she's able to distract / sedate (?) them to give the other characters the opportunity to sneak into the house. maybe she fails in sedating derek which is how he gets wrapped into everything soon after.

16 -> WILL'S LEG SQUIRMING. HE'S SO OBVIOUSLY IN PAIN OHHHHH BROTHER. NEVER BEATING THE NOT CONNECTED TO THE HIVE MIND ALLEGATIONS

17 -> this fuckass tree. anyway. It's kind of already widely thought out that while the party is doing their solo-investigative-mission in the woods, will gets a flashback to the time he fell from the tree in the upside down. and while I believe this is true, I think once the boys snap him out of his trance he will brush them off and pretend that he didn't see anything. why? I don't really have a genuine reason but I can picture him not wanting them to worry about him/maybe it's something that he doesn't necessarily want to share.

however we know that he goes investigating the same tree later on in the night. I think he originally starts this exhibition as wanting to get a better look at it on his own, but I think robin may catch him sneaking out of the radio station and decide to tag along with him. it might be easier for will to talk to her/explain things to her because he isn't so close with her and therefore his words might hold less weight. does that make sense ??? I don't know. his past is a touchy subject so it might be something he doesn't feel comfortable talking about yet with the boys. I think this would open up the perfect chance for robin and will to start talking to each other and their eventual duo dynamic.

anyway! those are most of my thoughts from the teaser that I feel haven't really been said. I mostly just wanted to write everything down so I can get all of my predictions straight — so let's hope some of these are true??? if there are some things in here which don't make any sense/you would like some clarification on PLEASE let me know, I have been following production sooooo closely in the past year so I might have just assumed a lot of people knew things/ it was common knowledge and didn't explain well enough. thank you for reading and defo add ur thoughts if you have any!!!!

#when I say I have been following production closely . I mean it bad #Like full on stalking the news /the semi-leak accounts for ANY new information #so many dots just were able to connect in my mind based on prior knowledge so lets thank me for being so brainrotted on this show #pb analysis #<- HAVEN'T USED THIS TAG IN OVER 10 MONTHS WOW.#st5 theory #st5 spoilers #st5 leaks #stranger things #stranger things 5 #st5 speculation #st5 spec #also lordy lord this is 3k words. yikes

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