#loki discourse

[lokiified]

listen man i understand the dislike for sylvie, i can get behind that. but i will forever defend loki’s character in the tv show. yes, he’s very very different and the change can feel drastic, but i think realizing that:

- the love and acceptance you always longed for from your family was there the whole time

- your own “glorious purpose” never existed

- you willingly die at the hands of your greatest fear

- the things you thought were the greatest powers in the universe (infinity stones) are being used as paperweights by a society that is in control of time as you know it

- your choices have never been your own,

would kind of change your perspective of yourself and those around you, and maybe make you act a little differently.

have whatever opinions you want, but that’s just my 2 cents on it

[nerdby]

If Loki knowing about the Infinity Stones in the television series has been tripping you up, please go back and rewatch the first Avengers movie--

In the first Avengers film, Loki had two Infinity Stones in his possession while battling the Avengers. One of them is the space stone which was encased in the tesseract and the other was the mind stone which was encased in Loki's staff. The mind stone was given to Loki by Thanos because Thanos knew it would aid him in making Loki betray Thor and try to take over Earth. This is because the mind stone acting as a drug that would allow Thanos to control Loki's thoughts and actions.

Because, like it or not, Loki is not stronger than an Infinity Stone.

So if you're confused about how TVA!Loki knows about the Infinity Stones, the answer is simple--

Thanos told Loki about the Infinity Stone in his staff and about the other Stones in the first Avengers movie, but also failed to mention the effect the stone would have on Loki himself. So TVA!Loki would NOT have needed to live through the events of any of the post-2012 MCU films to know of the Stones' existence.

[notagrayjedi]

almost all of Loki’s plans are extremely short-sighted and build on each other like a house of cards until they all fall down around him. He’s rarely two steps ahead of himself, and each decision is made based on how well the result will benefit Loki. Sometimes those decisions lead to him working for Thanos, sometimes they lead to him saving the people of Asgard. Loki isn’t really good or bad, he’s just Loki.

[manebioniclegali]

At this point, Marvel can't create a cohesive roadmap to save its life, let alone deal with something that needed some sort of attention long before now. Loki's story is not one they seem to have been willing to put a lot of investment in, despite the passion from both those who care about the character as part of the "customer base," if you will, along with the actor himself. They did okay enough with the show (which has issues both as a solo character piece along with how it alters the MCU at large), but I don't think they used whatever kernels of interesting concepts that existed as well or as thoroughly as they could have. The MCU in general seems to have lost its story bible after the end of phase 3 (and there could be an argument made that they were starting to lose sight of it during that), and it shows painfully in everything they've done since.

I really, really, really hope that A4 will include some nod to Loki having been tortured that is not even slightly ambiguous. If not just to shut the door on this argument permanently.

I forgot that endgame was technically A4. Oh bloody hell we were not treated well with that one, either. It didn't even come close to giving a nod 😭 He was barely even there. Despite the stuff they definitely filmed for it. And I'm gonna be honest, I don't think the Loki series really covered it at all, but I also can't recall, which I'm asssssssuming means they didn't (I would think I'd remember something like that).

with the latest news about loki, i thought now would be a good excuse time to post some semi-relevant quotes from tom about loki’s time between the first thor and avengers movie:

“[Joss and I] talked about it a lot. We talked about this idea that Loki disappears through that wormhole of space and time, when the Bifrost is destroyed, and he kind of goes through the Seventh Circle of Hell. And he’s on his own. He’s on his own in the dark corners of the universe, and the journey he goes on is pretty horrible. It’s like getting lost in the rainforest or something. You’re going to come out the other side a bit mangled on the outside, and on the inside. And he’s made this deal with Thanos and the Chitauri […] and he’s being played too, by them. But I just think it’s interesting, actually, because we’re more interested in what that does to him as a character, because it gives us a justification for his increased menace. […] He’s much darker, and more scarred.”

“What happens in the space between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers is Loki’s made some very shady deals with the gangsters on the streets of the Nine Realms.”

“In Thor, Loki is a prince of Asgard. But by the time The Avengers starts, Loki’s been around the block of the universe. He’s met some shady gangsters and he’s gone undercover and he’s come back looking a bit meaner.”

“Working with Alexandra Byrne, who was the costume designer again, saying let’s take the regality of the lost prince of Asgard, and make him a damaged pirate, so there’s evidence of some kind of experience beyond what happens at the end of Thor. And then talking with Joss about his evolved psychology and how, in the space between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers, Loki has gone through a whole bunch of stuff which will register on his mind and on his body and will change who he has to become. It’s really exciting!”

“I think somewhere between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers, Loki has been to the Marvel equivalent of the 7th circle of hell. At the end of Thor you see him let go. He lets go of the spear, he lets go of Asgard, and he lets go of the need of his brother and father’s affection and approval. He has bigger plans now.”

“[He’s] more mischievous. More evil. More hubristic. More delusional. More damaged. More badass. He doesn’t want revenge so much as identity. Belonging. Purpose. Self-esteem. Through delusional dreams.”

“I think he went, like, with everything else to—Joss Whedon and I discussed it—to a sort of… It was just, like, the worst place imaginable. I think he went to sort of all of the darkest recesses of the universe. I’m sure he had a brush with— several brushes with death. I think he ran into the shadiest characters you can find in the nine realms. I think he had to rely on his wits to protect himself. It was really, really, really unpleasant, I think. And all I have to— I don’t have any frame of reference for that, really, except for imagining what it might be like to be kidnapped by a terrorist cell or something and have to survive a very, very frightening and precarious existence. But whatever it was, it was important when Loki came back for the Avengers that whatever compassion he had left was absolutely shriveled to a minimum because of the experience that he had. Harrowing, I think, and scarring for life—in a way that Thor and Odin and Frigga find very, very difficult to understand.”

“The back story for us was that when Loki lets go of that spear at the end of Thor he is doing it both literally and metaphorically, he’s letting go of his affection for Asgard—his connection to it, his need for Odin’s love, and he disappears into the wormhole. The audience thinks is he dead, but where he’s gone is he’s sort of been to the seventh circle of hell and back and along the way has met these aliens and made a shady deal with them and they’ve found the Tesseract. Loki was brought up with the expectation of entitlement—he was born to rule, both Thor and Loki were born to be kings. And yet, there is no kingdom for Loki, so he has to find one. So he’s come down to earth to subjugate humanity and rule the human race as their king. I guess we’ve skirted over the facts of where Loki disappeared to, but we’ve imagined that he’s had a pretty horrible time and this is his kind of last chance at giving himself an identity or a home, somewhere to belong to.”

[bebx]

“this ship is not canon” babe, they’re fictional characters. they’re not real. they’re literally dolls we play with. we don’t care about whether or not these fictional characters’ love story is canon in this piece of media that is also entirely based on fiction. I mean, sure, canon would be lovely, but it’s a bonus. it’s not necessary. what we care about is the fun of talking about these 2 idiots being in love.

we don’t give a fuck if they didn’t kiss in “canon”. they had raw sex in thousands of fics about them though. and I’d say that’s more than enough to make people who ship them happily ship them even harder. happy shipping!

[sjbattleangel]

Face it, Darth Vader, Zuko, Piccolo, Vegeta, Magneto, Loki and Venom did far worse, unforgivable things yet when they were redeemed to varying degrees, fandom gave them free passes. Yet when Catra ,a child soldier who was physically and mentally abused by her mentor, realizes how much she has hurt the people around her; strives to be a better person; saves her childhood best friend and the entire world with the literal power of love (in spite of the series being cut short), fandom screams for her blood, yelling that she was "the real villain" and "should've died".

I have nothing against either Vader, Zuko, Piccolo, Vegeta, Magneto, Loki or Venom. However, when fandom declares a queer catgirl to be "the face of unforgivable evil", that's when we need to call out the blatant sexist, and kind of queerphobic, double standards.

And no, don't even give me that "BuT BaD WrItInG" thought-terminating rubbish. Funny how everything seems to be "BaD WrItInG" only when it involves some form of media made by and/or starring women, queer people and other minorities. Don't you think?

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

personally, I think people are allowed to ship a “toxic ship” as long as it’s fictional and they can separate fiction from reality. shipping a fictional “problematic ship” doesn’t mean you’re “abuse apologist” in real life. the same way people who enjoy fictional villains are not “murderers” in real life.

it’s okay if you think this ship makes you uncomfortable and so you personally dislike it. what you can and should do is avoid their contents and refrain from interacting with people who do ship them. that mute and block buttons are your friends.

what you shouldn’t do, though, is harass people who ship them and brag about how they’re “red flags irl” and how you’re “morally superior” simply because of fictional characters.

I promise you, minding your own business and not caring about what ship strangers on the internet ship will make your fandom so much less toxic and a whole lot more enjoyable.

[regaliasonata]

I really hate the "Female Character getting bashed in order to prop up the M/M pairing" trend so badly in fandoms.

Most of the time it usually ends up boiling down to misogyny against them and really ruins the enjoyment of those ships.

[thehauntingsofficial]

A Warning To Marvel Roleplayers;

Mass manipulation comes in many forms, like a wolf stalking pray through a crowd of nice, nice sheep. One specifically has made it their mission to ruin people's lives in the name of jealousy, otherwise known as Asgards-Trickster-God (as well as manifest-your-destiny, and countless other alt accounts, as you've probably seen). Slithering from writing group to writing group once people figure out that all the harassment they've been receiving has been from their own writing partner. These innocent people don't deserve the constant harassment, don't deserve to be obsessed over by a person who barely crosses their mind.

The following is chock-full of evidence (not edited, in case LLD wants to play). I've also added a different callout post made by a different group a little while back, they've truly been at this for a way too long now.

Please stay safe, folks!

[helpwhatsthis]

I've been seeing a lot of discourse around Bob and Yelena in Thunderbolts* and I just want to remind everyone that Florence's idea of their relationship based on their scripts and what she knows from Marvel is FAMILIAR.

If people are arguing with you about why it's not okay to ship them, you need to think outside of the realm of "they just want yelena to have her comic sexuality" and start thinking about the fact THAT SHE SEES BOB AS A LITTLE BROTHER.

Would you ship Thor and Loki even though they aren't blood related? NO, because they view each other as siblings!

Would you ship Yelena and Natasha? NO, because even through they aren't blood related; THEY SEE EACH OTHER AS SIBLINGS!

Hell, even Wanda and Pietro aren't blood related in most of the comics but THEY SEE ONE ANOTHER AS SIBLING AND THAT'S WHY EVERYONE HATES THAT ONE COMIC RUN (iykyk.)

[lokihiddleston]

You can love the Loki series AND love the movies, and that's not weird. Just because we like the series doesn't mean we “didn't get the movies”.

You can love the series, and love all the Loki in the movies just as much. Just because we love the series doesn't mean we no longer love the Loki in the movies. Just because we love a ship doesn't mean, we don't care about Loki as character. You can love a ship and Loki just as much.

It's not because I love season one of Loki that I love season two, for example. On the contrary, I hate this one, because they dared to do the sacrifice thing again and be punished when he'd suffered enough. Loki is a character I love, even if I didn't like how he was treated in Ragnarok movie either. But that doesn't mean I've stopped creating/sharing about him into or banishing Loki from the film. I put things aside, because I love this character in spite of everything.

I like seeing him, sharing about him, discussing things about his own growth, the changes. Whatever the content. You can dislike things about a piece of content but still create and share on it. I like seeing Loki with someone, but I love him even more on his own.

You have to put water in your wine when you really love a character. It seems to some that since this isn't the "version of Loki" they wanted and imagined, it's “not their Loki”, sorry but it's wrong to think like that. There is no official Loki, or good version about him, especially with variants.

The point of all this is to love this character, nothing more. It doesn't matter where you prefer him. I've been part of the fandom for so many years: I've loved, love and will always love Loki, despite his background and everything else.

[bebx]

“oh this little guy is your blorbo? name every crime he’s committed and the tragic backstory behind those sad pretty eyes of his then”

[bookshopsbizarreblog]

It recently came to my attention that at least one of my "friends" thinks trains are homophobic, on this good Friday. Help me prove that their wrong.

[t-lostinworlds]

okay i've only scrolled a fair amount on the tags but it's just... am i the only one who thinks the post credit scene wasn't that serious? like it was done mostly for the gag? or did i miss something here?

[sufferthesea]

if i wanted to watch tom hiddleston play an emotionally damaged, traumatized man with black hair who was neglected by his parents and has an incestuous relationship with a woman while also being attracted to a quirky blonde, i’d watch crimson peak

[sweetdreamr]

The next episode of What If should feature Odin reading a parenting book. It will end with his head exploding 🤯🤯🤯

One of the most interesting things about the Hela episode to me in terms of Loki and Thor is that is showcases just how much weight Odin puts into the roles he gives his children. He tries to kill Hela because she asks him to back down. He's angry at her because she's no longer under his control. He backs down ONLY when he realizes that she's more powerful than he is and he doesn't stand a chance against her. Odin collects objects and he collects people because both have uses to him, not because he cares about them.

He's crippled the nine realms by taking all their powerful objects from them and then forced them to rely on him and see him as a savior. But he's only a savior because he ruined them to begin with.

All Hela wants is to escape his control and when she finally achieves that and manages to find herself, the first thing she does is offer Odin MERCY and he tries to strangle her to death.

this, more than anything, means two things to me:

- Thor was NOT banished because he tried to kill the Jotuns, he was banished because he broke out of the "role" Odin assigned to him, which was to be the perfect, loving, warm prince who can do no wrong. The light of Asgard, all the best parts of Odin put into his descendant, and when Thor tried to kill the Jotuns, it made Asgard look weak and Odin was furious with Thor because of that.

Loki was put in prison because he could no longer serve his use to Odin anymore. Loki was intended to become the ruler of Jotunheim eventually, and once he tried to take over Earth, there would be no one who would see him as the rightful king of anything, so Loki was put in a box and shoved under the bed.

It's just so interesting to see that they fully leaned into Odin's darker side this episode and it didn't feel OOC, it just felt like they finally pulled off Odin's mask. That seeing Hela happy was what broke Odin, because, I think deep down what made him try to kill her was that he was jealous she found something he never could: peace.