#non-binary discourse

[spoon-the-raccoon]

"If we get rid of AGAB language how do we define being trans?"

By being trans, by going against how society sees you. Because guess what, not every trans person is going to transition, not every trans person fully removes themself from their "AGAB", not every trans person sees their transition as going from one side to the other.

Transgender is just a made up word just like every other word. It's a label you're supposed to use to help describe your experience, not another way to force others to conform.

Besides, AGAB language is completely useless when it is incredibly flawed. It just tells you what letter they put on your birth certificate and that is determined by your primary, secondary and beyond sexual characteristics. Guess what, not everybody's sexual characteristics fit, not everybody's "AGAB" fits them at all. Why? Because it's a pointless binary category based off of small minded individuals who think nature draws in straight lines and has a very simplified version of reality in this minds.

Also stop ignoring Intersex folks just because we don't fit your narrative and we're making you confront your own intersexism.

[the-future-is-chrome]

[moonlightsapphic]

Reasons why someone may identify as bi lesbian (a valid identity!):

a bi woman who experiences rare attraction to men but never enough to date one.

a bi woman who was attracted to a man only once in her life, so he is like an exception.

a woman who is bisexual but monoromantic towards women, or biromantic but monosexual towards women.

a bi woman who is only attracted to non-men and occasionally fem men.

a bi woman who doesn’t date men and doesn’t intend to ever do so.

a lesbian who formerly was bisexual and now her identity has shifted, and she wants her label to reflect both.

a late-in-life lesbian who is married to a man but is comfortable staying with her husband because of their unique love/companionship.

a poly lesbian whose partner’s partners (whom they may rendezvous with) may rarely include men.

a lesbian who does not identify as “monosexual” or “monoromatic” despite only being attracted to non-men, since she feels that she is attracted to multiple non-men genders.

a lesbian in a relationship with a trans man.

a “straight” trans man who formerly identified as a masc lesbian and remains in a relationship with a lesbian.

a bi transmasc who prefers to date other transmascs as well as women.

a transfem bi woman who strongly identifies with centering her life around womanhood and wlw love.

a genderfluid lesbian.

a bisexual woman using the pre-separatism meaning of “lesbian”, back when it was an umbrella term for all sapphics.

… and many more!

*I use “woman” and “she/her” in these examples but this may apply to any genderqueer sapphics as well!

Yes, many of these experiences can be described by using one of “bi” or “lesbian”, rather than both in combination. Lesbianism includes many non-men genders and trans women! Bisexuality includes all genders including trans folks! Lesbianism is considered monosexual identity, but also in some ways multisexual, and “bi lesbian” is often used by those who strongly identify with being mspec. Labels are for our comfort in identifying ourselves and our lived experiences, as well as to accurately communicate our identities to others. We shouldn’t police them! Queer people are deviant and complex by nature! Rigid rules are for the patriarchy, not us. Labeling conventions are fully arbitrary and we should prioritise what will maximise queer folks’ happiness.

Folks spend a lot of (misplaced) energy hating on the label “bi lesbian” and want to eradicate it by claiming it is TERF propaganda—however that’s not very nuanced. There are queer elders who use this term—should we really have the audacity to tell them how to live? Ironically it’s gender essentialist in and of itself to try to put people in a box. We should remember that bisexuals and lesbians originally were all just “lesbians” (ie in the same way we use “sapphic” as an umbrella term today), and it was TERF rhetoric in second-wave feminism that resulted in lesbian separatism. A simple label used by a tiny minority can’t cause all kinds of scary lesbophobia, biphobia, and transphobia (as it is, endosex allocishetero people can barely tell bisexuality from lesbianism anyway and don’t know a thing about trans people either ;n;)—If it is a possibility, that’s our job as a community to fight back misinformation. :)

[transmasc-lesboy-ramblings]

I can't believe just how much of the lesboy discourse is just going back to these two simple question : ''Do multigender people exist?'' and ''Can non-binary people identify as men and/or women?''.

And obviously the answer to both of these questions is yes,but somehow It is still not understood in the majority of the online queer community,especially on tiktok.

They still believe multigender identities (and other enby identities) are just abinary genderless identities who can only be classified as ''feminine enough to be seen as a girl non-binary'' and ''masculine enough to be seen as boy non-binary''. They truly do not believe that we can identify as binary genders,they believe it even less if said binary gender is being a man. Their view of gender is not based on how multigender and non-binary identities in general actually work,it is based on an incorrect view of them only made to justify seeing non-binary people as ''woman-lite''.

But why would they try to actually listen to non-binary and multigender people for a change? It would mean that they will have to reconize that the non-men/men binary is complete horseshit because it would be incorrect to treat ''man'' and ''woman'' as identities who can ever intersect..and even worse...they will have to admit that men can in fact identify as lesbians !! The horror !!! /s

[plaguedpriest]

do people who say that it "doesn't make sense" to interpret gabriel as transmasc not understand what an allegory is 😭

he's a sexless being that had to work to rise in the ranks of heaven and "earn" his pronouns. then when he falls from said rank he's agressively degendered by the council as a means to degrade him, but the narration insists on referring to him correctly even when it wouldn't "make sense" to because it's what he worked hard for and learning to keep his agency and the identity he chose for himself rather than what's imposed on him is a major part of his character arc.

you can have whatever alternative interpretations and headcannons you want but saying that it doesn't make sense to read his arc as a transmasc allegorical narrative is not only invalidating people's experiences with a character they might honestly resonate with (most people i see who interpret him as such are transmasculine themselves) but also just. kind of refusing to engage with the text in its own terms?

like sure you can say that it doesn't make sense for gabriel to have enough self realization come out as queer and specifically as a trans man and start holy testosterone or whatever since before the events of the story but that's what an allegory is for. the world and story of ultrakill simply wouldn't allow for a character with modern understanding of queer terminology and culture to go through the same experiences that would be 100% analogous with that of a real life transgender man. gabriel is a fictional mythical being in a heavily fantasious non-modern setting that operates by its own rules entirely.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

tfw people dismiss steven universe's queer representation because "they're just sentient rocks" or "they're genderless so it doesn't count as queer romance" but they're completely okay with shipping a girl and her abusive cat sister.

[dhddmods]

In case anyone isn't aware, status-quo-hater has said some exorsexist things, pluralphobic things, and has a double standard for contradictory labels & separating transness from sex/AGAB.

This is a post meant to make its followers aware of whether or not their identities are respected, and aware of its harmful stances.

We do not encourage harassment of this individual.

It has yet to address its harmful posts, which bothers us greatly. It needs to make it known whether it has changed its views, or if it is going to double down on its harmful standpoints.

Status-quo-hater has, in this post and this post:

1.

-Said that to identify as a trans woman, you have to have "transitioned into womanhood" - while simultaneously saying that mulleripathian non-binary people cannot identify as trans women (thus equating non-binary womanhood to binary womanhood, when they are separate experiences.) This directly harms mulleripathian non-binary women (ie; demigirls, girlfluxes, multigender women, etc), as it is treating them as either a cisgender woman (which is malgendering by only acknowledging their womanhood) or genderless/gender neutral (which is misgendering by ignoring their womanhood), and implies that they have no social or physical transition towards womanhood necessary. That is untrue. Mulleripathian non-binary women do have to transition towards womanhood - it's just a different type of womanhood than what was previously established. This falls into the same narrative as calling them "basically cis." It also separates wolffipathian non-binary women from mulleripathian non-binary women, by allowing wolffipathian non-binary women to use the trans women label, but not the mulleripathian ones. This is hypocritical considering it has said in the past that it doesn't think trans people should be defined by their assigned gender/sex.

2.

-Said that mulleripathian trans women are misusing the "trans women" label, which completely ignores re-transitioning women (ie; "detrans" mulleripathians, who are re-transitioning into womanhood.) Is their transition back into womanhood not a transition? This also ignores interrupted mulleripathians who wish to transition towards femininity after experiencing androgenizing effects from non-intersex atypical experiences (ie; mulleripathians who had a tumor that produced high levels of androgens, making them non-intersex but also giving them androgenized traits.)

3.

-Told plurals how to identify their genders, as a singlet. It has no right to input on this whatsoever, and should leave that to the plurals within its community. (We swear, no matter how plurals identify their genders, singlets will always argue and never be satisfied.) If you wanna read about our sysmate Weni's experience with this, you can see our reblog of its post here.

4.

-Blatantly stated that it does not support coffeebean transmascs & honeybee transfems.

[twospiritstooprideful]

I think we think of non-binary folks as "half-boy half-girl" when they're not on that binary

So many people don't realize "non-binary" means non-binary

They're not on the middle of the "boy–girl" scale

They're off of the scale entirety

[milo-by-the-fishtank]

Doing a survey here. I had a thought and I want to see demographic data now

Here is some explanation on what I mean by the options I have provided 

Had your ability too formulate opinions striped-being called ‘pick me’, ‘ bootlicker’, ‘suck up’, been told you hold this position because a man told you, you are doing it for sexual favors or attention from a man, or any other way that strips you off your ability to hold a position without the influence of a man.

Misgender-implied/or stated you are a cis man, implied/or stated you are a trans man/masc, forcefully put into a gender or sex categories will do not identify with, stated in any way you’re not trans

Harassed-sent hate mail, sent death threats, sent spam, sent gore, threatened in any other way, you know the drill

Malgender-had your gender affirm within a negative association(ie ‘she’s a trans woman that’s why she’s a bitch’, stuff along this line)

Sexism & Transphobia-intersexism, transmisogyny, exorsexism, misogyny, and basically any other form of sexism or transphobia

Other forms of oppression and discrimination-racism, ableism, homophobia, reinforcing colonial/white supremacist ideas, again you know the drill 

 Attention:

If it’s none, please comment none, when I make the tallies you will be added. I’m an idiot and forgot to add that and a check results 

[penumbralwoods]

lays down and stares at the ceiling. really wish it was as easy for me to ignore casual exorsexism as it seems to be for so many of you

[ghostboyravenight]

the parent calling the police on a teacher for mentioning trans people in their classroom doesn’t care if you’re a trans man, woman, or non-binary. the man screaming “tranny” out of his car window doesn’t care if you’re a trans man, woman, or non-binary. the group of cis men beating you up for wearing a trans flag badge on your backpack don’t care if you’re a trans man, woman, or non-binary. the teacher reporting trans children to their transphobic parents doesn’t care if they’re trans boys, girls, or non-binary. the governments banning gender affirming care for children and adults alike do not care if you’re a trans man, woman, or non-binary.

we are all trannies in the eyes of the state, and we are all being eradicated from public life. there is no trans person who is your enemy, and playing oppression olympics amongst trans people gets us nowhere when the society out to get us has no interest in playing by your rules. you are simply distracting us from the real enemy, which is exactly what they want, and I’m going to assume that you’re on their side.

[steinbit]

what it feels like to no longer care about label discourse

[oh-dear-sally]

I know Kalvin Garrah is kind of old news at this point, but I just feel the need to talk about my feelings about this because ultimately it impacted me a ton.

I was a Kalvin Garrah fan in middle school (I know, awful.) I had been in the midst of an identity crisis since I was 10 and started looking towards YouTube at that time. I was a MEGA fan of Kalvin’s. I watched all of his content and genuinely became such an insufferable, annoying, person as a result. I KNEW I was trans, but from watching his content I convinced myself I could only be a binary trans person. I told myself I was a man and forced myself to be hyper masculine as a result. I hated myself so much and finally decided I wasn’t man enough and never would be (because, news flash, I was not a man.) After that it took me years to come to terms with my identity, to accept that I am non-binary and to stop hating myself.

And I have read stories from other people, young trans kids, in these spaces online that just felt so uncomfortable in their transness. Kalvin Garrah, and other transmeds (trans scum, etc) had such a major impact on trans people and it is STILL HAPPENING with trans people trying to cater to conservative people.

Just please keep an eye on any young trans people you know, and be a shoulder to cry on when they eventually realize how this affected them. Only reason I was able to start loving myself, and transness as a whole, was thanks to my lovely friends and other content creators that made me feel welcome and safe.

[imoga-pride]

Just because some identity is contradictory to you doesn't mean it can't make sense. Actually, nuanced identities are often contradictory when you know the basics of it, ignoring all details and complexity a multilabeled or combined identity can be.

If you think cisgender nonbinary people can't have a definition bc then it would describe someone who is not cis, then you're in the wrong bc just cause something describes you it doesn't mean it applies or include you bc the identity requires self-identification as well.

Same goes for bi lesbian, demisexual, or lesboy, you 'are technically lesboy' (/demi/lunian) but refuses to label yourself as such? Cool then you're not/don't experience that identity ��� and that's okay. But to imply anyone with such identity are not that thing bc it can't exist, then you're being a reality denier, bc ppl with such identities exist regardless if you recognize them or not. For instance, just bc someone uses ungrammatical conlangs doesn't mean that language can't exist. In fact, it's written already and it's on you if you're gonna cry or ignore.

Also transhet people are allowed to be nonbinary; binaryn't transfems/transmascs are allowed to be hetero due to their alignment, presentation, AGAB, or any other typical reason.

[teenagecowboyrunaway]

Having labels is so weird in the online queer community. Because if I say that im a lesbian, that's chill, but if I say I'm a 'demiromantic biromantic homosexual genderfluid enby' who uses the label 'lesbian' people online try and start discourse about it? Literally who gives a shitttt

[purplezombietumbler]