#zero year riddler icons

[havendance]

Year One vs Zero Year: A Tale of Two Batmen

(You can also read this on AO3 if you want)

In the introduction to the Batman: Year One collected edition, Dennis O’Neil writes about the impetus behind the post-crisis reboot—things had become dated and it was time to revamp their most iconic characters: Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman. “The writers assigned to the task had quick and clear ideas about how to update Superman and Wonder Woman, but Batman was a problem. He was fine just as he was.” Batman: Year One was not a story that was trying to reinvent Batman, it was a story that was trying to distill him, to revisit and retell his origin for a new era of DC storytelling. Whatever you may think of Frank Miller, he and David Mazzucchelli certainly succeeded with that goal.

While I don’t have a nice clear editorial quote like that for Batman: Zero Year, it’s clear that Synder was trying to do the same with the story. Zero Year is a Batman origin for the new era of storytelling that was the New 52. It has its nods to Miller—it has to, simply existing after Year One’s influential rewrite of Bruce’s origin—but it owes far more to the Batman of the golden age in it's story beats. It is not just Batman: Year One for the New 52, it is the Batman origin of the post-flashpoint comics, it's art and storytelling reflecting this Batman of a new era.

Batman’s origin has always been consistent in its strokes: Bruce Wayne’s parents are killed by a mugger. Devastated, the young boy swears to devote his life to justice. He trains both body and mind, until finally ready to begin, a bat flies through the window, and he takes it as an sign that he should become Batman—a creature that strikes fear in the hearts of criminals. It can be summarized in a page or two to get the audience up to speed.

(Batman’s Origin as told in Batman #47)

Neither Year One nor Zero Year change any of the fundamental pieces, but the narratives that surround them are vastly different. Year One seeks to tell a Batman origin grounded in reality as much as it can. In an afterward by David Mazzuchelli in the Batman: Year One collected edition he writes that “with year one, we sought to craft a credible Batman, grounded in a world we recognize”. The main enemy that Bruce Wayne faces is corruption: in the police and in the leading families of Gotham. Beside Gordon and Alfred, the other members of the Batman mythos that are present are Selina Kyle, just beginning to put on the catsuit and Harvey Dent prior to becoming Two Face, both of them surrounded by plausibility and grit. The Joker gets a single name drop at the end. It takes up four issues and covers the span of a year, covering the emergence of Batman’s mission

In contrast, Zero Year is bombastic. It’s a story full of bright colors and fantastic events: explosions, blimp chases, and Gotham city cut off and run as the Riddler’s personal fiefdom. It’s longer—spanning 10 issues—and covers a significantly shorter period of time. In it, Batman faces the Joker, The Riddler, and a bone-mutated mad scientist foe who’s name I don’t remember. Pamela Isley and the Penguin are alluded to as well. The giant penny plays a role in the plot. It calls back to many pieces of golden age lore, such as Bruce’s Uncle Philip Kane, and his love interest Julie Madison. (For a more modern retelling of the golden age Batman’s origin, see Secret Origins (1986) #6)

(The Batman: Year One and Batman: Zero Year trades. Please also note that the Year One trade contains at least an extra issue’s worth of bonus content at the end, where the Zero Year trade only has some variant covers)

There is also a difference in attitude between the two origins. Year One is a comic that is trying to escape the bounds of genre; Zero Year is a comic that revels in it. Part of it is the tone—Year One is setting itself in contrast to the Batman of the past in its commitment to realism rather than melodrama. Part of it is the art. In terms of color, the original printing of Year One and Zero Year are very similar. In Year One, this is because of technical limitations. There are only so many colors, most of them bright, and still Richmond Lewis works to create a strong sense of atmosphere to highlight the noir-type story that is being told. Zero Year uses these colors as a deliberate homage to comics of the past. It’s filled with bright pinks, blues, yellows, and greens set in contrast to each other. It’s beautiful. It’s also a clear stylistic choice.

Richmond redid the colors of Year One for later reprintings. While beautiful, they are far more subdued and muted. It’s clearly the sort of look they wanted for Year One from the beginning, but could not achieve. In contrast, Zero Year stands out from the comics surrounding it in the first half of the New 52 precisely because everything else is illustrated in this overly realistic dull and gritty style.

(Batman #405 — original printing vs recolor)

(Batman (2011) #22 vs Batman (2011) #1 — These comics have the same colorist, but clearly different philosophies guiding them)

This can also be seen in the Batman costumes themselves. While both Year One and Zero Year are drawing from the same original Batman costume from Detective Comics #27, they take different parts. Year One’s Batman suit has a simple and streamlined black and grey. The Zero Year suit keeps the purple gloves.

(From left to right: Batman in Detective Comics #27, Batman #405, and Batman (2011) #24. While the image from Detective Comics #27 is faded, note that the gloves are purple)

This contrast isn’t just in the origins themselves—it is the comics that surround and follow them as well. Year One and Zero Year are origins for two different eras of Batman. I’ve read primarily post-crisis Batman comics and am less familiar with the pre-crisis era, so I can’t say how much of the storylines that followed were specifically picking up on Year One’s influence, and how much was just the natural change in storytelling direction, but throughout the major Batman events of the Post-Crisis era, there is a throughline of sensibilities that they share with Year One. AsYear One set out to tell the grounded origin of the Batman, so do many of the foes and challenges he faces have this grounded nature to them as well. They all still have a larger than life feel, but the foes Batman faces tend to fall into the categories of crime (Knightfall, War Games), natural disasters (Contagion, Legacy, Cataclysm), and himself (all of them, but more specifically Murderer/Fugitive and arguably a Lonely Place of Dying as well). These are events that start from a realistic starting point that are magnified. Earthquakes, outbreaks of disease, a gang war—these are all things that could happen to any city. Any man could lose a son or be framed for murder. The heightened nature of these stories is what separates them from the real world.

(Even an event like No Man’s Land, with its premise of ‘Gotham getting kicked out the United States’ that stretches the suspension of disbelief, is intensely focused on what this means for the city that remains. It cares about grounding the fantastic events in real reactions.)

In contrast, post-flashpoint events tend to have this more fantastical feel. The Night of the Owls does not put Bruce up against ordinary corruption among the elite, but against a masked conspiracy with immortal assassins at their disposal. The driving force of Robin War is not the idealism of the We Are Robin movement against a city that doesn’t like or trust them, but a power play by the Court of Owls. In Night of the Monster Men, Batman and co. fight Kaiju-like monsters; there are themes of contagion throughout the story, but this isn’t a hopeless fight against that ancient enemy of humanity that is disease, it’s a thrilling, action-packed fight. One approach is not necessarily better than the other, but they are fundamentally different paradigms of storytelling. I remember reading Night of the Monster Men at the same time as the lead up to Bruce Wayne: Murdere/Fugitive and thinking that they didn’t feel anything alike.

 Unlike Year One, Zero Year does not feel like a origin point for this shift in narrative focus. The beginning of the new52, while having the benefit of being the beginning of a new era, also isn’t it—these storytelling trends could be seen in the comics leading up to Flashpoint as well. If I had to pick an event that started to show this shift, it would be Batman RIP. Morrison’s love for silver age comics and deep cuts to lore lead it to having that same fantastical feel. While the Batman of Morrison’s run is nominatively the one of Year: One, he fits more in line with the storytelling motivations of Zero Year—the callbacks to older ages (Morrisons’ Batman definitely wore the purple gloves), the extreme feats of survival, the larger than life events. Year One was an origin for an era that had come to an end.

A new Batman origin was inevitable, if for no other reason than the constant passage of time. One of the big differences between Year One and Zero Year is the sheer difference in the type of technology Batman uses in each. In Year One, there is no Bat-Computer. Bruce has his grappling hooks, his smoke bombs, his ultrasonic device that summons hoards of bats—It’s all far too simple for a Batman of today’s world. Zero Year has computers everywhere and Batman’s gadgets are upgrading to fit the glitz and advancement of the modern era. The New52 gave DC the chance to revisit it and for better or for worse, no one could call Zero Year, ‘Year One only set 30 years later’. Both works are products of their times, and both works show the audience not only the basic beats of Bruce’s origin, but also what a Batman story looks like. Together, they show the way that he has evolved as a character over the years. Maybe in 15 years, DC will put out another origin epic for Batman. Chances are, he’ll have changed yet again.

[dc-sideblog]

Since you've done Steph as a Green Lantern and Cass as Star Sapphire, how about other Batfam members as Lanterns?

Omg I love this ask so much

So my next biggest headcanon is Bruce as a Yellow Lantern. His whole thing is fear tactics, he already operates the same way they do. Honestly I think he'd love it and thrive as a Yellow if/when he got over his innate hatred of all Lanterns. Man is an icon of fear at his core. He's weaponized that for decades already. This is just the slightest push over the edge

Also apparently the Sinestro Corps has been desperately trying to recruit him due to everything I said above and the only reason Bruce didn't become a Yellow Lantern is because he wore a green ring for like 0.2 seconds and that let him withstand the pressure. It's going to come up in my Green Lantern Steph fic

[id: Bruce as a Yellow Lantern. He's smiling creepily.]

With that said, I do have a bad dad!Bruce fic where the ending is him being inducted into the Indigo Tribe. I think that's a fitting way of jailing/punishing a man as powerful as Bruce Wayne.

Next up!

[id: Dick Grayson as a Red Lantern, standing in the blood lake and smiling, blood dripping down his arms. His hair is very long.]

I read a fic series once that delved into Dick as a Red Lantern and it went off. Dick's canonical temper + the pressure to repress that and bottle his rage up, only making it worse in turn, led to him getting a red ring. It was compelling. I fully agree with that author, whoever they were, on this

[id: Jason Todd as a Green Lantern, fist extended forward to the viewer. He has on a white cropped jacket and a green muzzle.]

I think Jason would be a good Green Lantern. Sorry to everyone who sees him as a Star Sapphire, but this fits him better in my opinion. His absolute determination in the face of nearly insurmountable odds just strikes me as very Green Lantern behavior. The whole Joker confrontation, the months of prep leading up, the years of training for one single mission, the four hours creeping forward to plant a bomb under the batmobile-- man's nothing if not determined. Plus I think he would get a kick out of this. He would make it a point to be the worst Green Lantern that Bruce ever has the displeasure of being forced to work with

[id: Duke Thomas as a Blue Lantern visibly healing a white cat. His uniform is similar to the Signal suit but a glowing symbol of his Corps floats above his head like a halo.]

Appeared to me in a vision. As soon as I thought of Duke as a Lantern, I thought he would be a Blue. It takes a lot of hope to do what he did during the Robin War, not to mention him trying every single day to outsmart the Riddler during the Zero Year. Duke Thomas does not give up. You could argue that he's a symbol of hope in the narrative for the way his family origin parallels Bruce's , but with a softer landing

[id: Tim Drake as a Green Lantern flying upward past stars.]

I made Tim a Green because he is full of audacity and hubris. He thinks he can fight God and win. Very Green Lantern behavior

[id: Damian Wayne as a Star Sapphire. Six glowing construct daggers float around him in a loose circle.]

I'll be honest. I don't actually see Damian as a Star Sapphire. The core trait is not just love, but rejected, spurned love. Damian's love for his family, for animals, for Gotham, is very much valued. It was the closest match imo though, so I drew it anyway, but frankly I just don't see Damian as a Lantern at all.

Anyway thanks for the ask! This was fun

[gl1tchr]

What do you have to say to all the extreme 2022 riddler haters (aka my friend plz help me convince them that he’s actually fantastic)

SO it really depends on where your friend is coming from! Are they a pre-existing Riddler Enjoyer with an aversion to the less conventional Riddlers like Dano, 2004, etc., or do they not give much thought to Riddler to begin with and just ESPECIALLY don't like Dano? And then, getting down to SPECIFICS, is it the aesthetic they don't like, his arc in the movie/comics, etc.

I'll always recommend my wordsalad "Dano Riddler Is Actually A Very Standard Riddler He's Just Wearing A Freaky Mask" if they fall in the former category. I think most of my points about Dano Riddler's portrayal borrowing from what are considered the ICONIC Riddlers (Gorshin, Zero Year, Arkhamverse, and BTAS) could help someone see him in a different light and encourage looking past his very unique appearance to see a very Standard Eddie beneath.

For the latter, it's tough to convince someone to see the positive in a new interpretation of a character when they don't care much for the original interpretations to begin with. If someone is just *not* a fan of Riddler, I think you'll find it difficult to find an interpretation they enjoy because there must just be something about the core aspects of Eddie's character they don't care for. I was already partial to Arkhamverse and BTAS before Dano really made me a Broader Riddler Enjoyer, so I had things I already enjoyed about his character that allowed me to delve into him deeper.

IN CONCLUSION, the thing I have to say to Extreme 2022 Riddler Haters is; that's your choice! You are Not required to enjoy a character, I just HOPE the dislike comes from a place of good faith and not just a blind rejection of modern interpretations. That's just kind of a message to everyone though, don't BLINDLY dislike things. You don't need an insanely thought out reason either, you can just say "this just didn't do it for me - I don't really have a specific reason, it's just not resonating". Sometimes it's hard to pin down what we just Don't Care For in regards to things we dislike, because we're so focused on Not Liking It lmao. I'd just encourage people do to their best to *be able* to verbalize the reason, because understanding EXACTLY what you dislike about a piece of art improves your media literacy/analysis, helps YOU figure out SPECIFIC things in media you dislike so you can better avoid them, and to curate a more positive experience for you overall!

[scriddlecat-is-gold]

welcome ~ ?

>> Name's Samie, she/her, this is blog where I post icons, memes, maybe some fanfics if I gain enough courage.

requests free ~ ? open 🔓

>> You can request icons/dividers if you want. Fic requests not available yet. Currently I have hyperfixation on Batman, so request any character from Batman universe.

rules ~ ?

in short ~ 16+ only, respect each other, free to talk in my asks (no politics, religion, racial/gender/orientation hate and etc)

>> 16+ blog (nothing too nsfw, but if anything I warned you); be respectful or dni (be polite and do not insult/threaten people/stuff you don’t like); do not incite conflict/hate (tell what you don't like calmly with no personal attacks nor any racial/gender/orientation/etc hate);;

>> you can talk about everything you want in asks except politics, religion or similar themes; talks about your hyperfixations are welcome; even if you simply want to share your day - you're safe to do it here;;

tags ~ ?

>> Check under the post and explore which you want. <3

anon list ~ ?

>> Ask if you want to be added here. Also can add pronouns and/or name to address if you wish.

🐇 anon - they/them

fav characters ~ ?

this is what I'd love make content for; MV for my version

— The Riddler (especially Batman 2004, BTAS, Zero Year, Arkhamverse, Catwoman: Lonely City, Arkhamites Musical, MV);; ❔

— Scarecrow (especially BTAS, Year One, Arkhamverse, HHSD, MV);; 🎃

— Two-Face (especially BTAS, Arkhamverse, Long Haloween, Arkhamites Musical, MV);; 🪙

— Catwoman (especially Catwoman: When in Rome, Catwoman: Lonely City, Arkhamverse, BTAS);; 🐈‍⬛

— Penguin (especially BTAS, 2022, MV);; 🐧

— Mr Freeze (especially BTAS, Arkhamites Musical);; 🧊

— Firefly (especially Batman 2004, general);; 🔥

fav ships ~ ?

— Scriddler;; 🎃❔

— Riddlecat;; 🐈‍⬛❔

— Scriddlecat;; 🐈‍⬛❔🎃

— Twiddler (platonic, they're besties);; ❔🪙

— Twoguin/OzHarv;; 🪙🐧

— Victor x Nora Fries (what their shipname);; 🔮🧊

if you have any other questions - ask freely

goodbye ~ ?

[spectralish]

he feeling sexy and free im scared

[pridewishes]

♔ || EDWARD NYGMA ICONS

250x250 || nonbinary gay || bordered circle

like / rb + credit + read dni if using

requested by @3ldr1tch !!

[riddler-enthusiast]

Edward Nygma icons with black backgrounds

from Zero Year - Secret City

[theneongod]

🍩 ; Edward Nygma icons.

[sweetlikehoneystingslikeabee]

Riddlers having to take care of a baby? Not theirs, dumped on them by accident. Then, just when they get comfortable, the baby has to be taken away to a real home.

"The Riddler with a baby." Riddler party ask

Oh okay we're attacking me emotionally, I see how it is. This is fine, I didn't tear up at parts writing this-

Tw: child abuse (mentioned)

Gotham

- "OSWALD..." He's texting his friend, sometimes nemesis, sort of lover in a flurry. Then he's on his doorstep with the baby within an hour.

- It becomes a lot of shenigans with These Two Smart Idiots taking care of a baby together. "No, Edward, I didn't raise a child, I had Martin around for a short while, that was DIFFERENT."

- Oswald fusses. Socks on the babies hands so they don't scratch their face. Ones his mother made him. Edward reads the baby huge encyclopedia entries- his favorites, for intellectual enrichment.

- If nothing else, that baby is going to be a fashion icon between them.

- Lots of the pair falling asleep on each other because the baby kept them up all night in the crib next to the bed they're sharing.

- When Edward has to give the baby back, he tries to be logical about it. The baby needs to go to a proper home.

- Oswald is the one to hold his hand and tell him it's alright to be sad about it, even if it needed to happen. They find comfort in one another.

60s

- Goofy uncle mode activated. Babies LOVE him. He's funny, does voices, and is very affectionate.

- Despite any protests from his current goons, he's going to be baby proofing and doing a lot of setting up for the child in the hideout.

- He does that thing where he swings them close to his body in his arms and just rapid kisses the cheeks.

- baby themed riddles and puns :)

- Crooning soft lullabies and whatever radio songs he can think of to get the baby to sleep. Everyone is rather shocked that his voice is... wow. Beautiful.

- Still going to commit crimes with a baby in his arms and will use that as the reason for why Batman can't punch him, also will scold him for being too loud.

- He's disappointed when he has to give them back, but he's understanding. After all, he wouldn't want the little tyke in danger! And he's certainly not ready to give up his criminal enterprise on Gotham... yet.

Capullo/zero year

- Hates this. No, he abhors this. He's going to try everything he can to dump this baby on someone else until he has to deal with the fact he's just. Stuck.

- This is cramping his style. Vomit and poop and mess and he's desperately trying to just aim it all away from his expensive suits.

- And the CRYING! No wonder his father hated- and he stops. His own thought process made him sick to his stomach.

- Okay... he can handle this for a short while. He is brilliant, after all.

- Everything quickly becomes automated in his workspace. Robots to aid him in making formula and remind him of feeding times-

- Most affectionate after bath time when the baby is swaddled and sleepy from warmth. The skin bonding. Perhaps... this isn't SO bad.

- Probably the happiest to give the baby back. That was a close one, those hormonal chemicals started getting him emotionally soft for a second. Less focused on his goals. Can't have that!

BTAS

- Far too classy to suddenly be a caretaker to a young baby. Aren't there no report laws for this exact reason? But he digresses. It's not the child's fault everyone else besides him are morons.

- Immediately making small inventions and non-swallow sized toys for the baby to occupy themselves on. Keeping them stimulated will hopefully lead to less crying ergo, less distraction from work.

- His clumsy goons all get turns rocking the baby when they get upset for this exact reason.

- If they don't do it right, he's taking the baby to hum low songs until they sleep. Then he smiles in satisfaction when he puts them down.

- The baby is going to be dressed well. Dashing and/or darling with what he finds to put them in. They match!

- When he does get the resources together for the baby to get where they need to be, he's a little sad. Not necessarily because he's had some great longing for fatherhood, but it certainly wasn't his worst adventure.

Telltale games

- Shockingly, while annoyed, actually takes to it fairly okay. He's had more time to deal with any father-related trauma in his past and is a lot more about taking care of the little thing until he no longer has to than whining about it.

- At first it's going to be incredibly clinical. What are a babies basic needs? Food, shelter... comfort.

- There are a lot of quiet moments that he drapes a blanket over his shoulder and just encourages the baby to sleep on him.

- Although he'd never admit it, he does wonder about a different life. Perhaps if he'd never fallen in with Waller and been betrayed... ah. But it's far too late for that, isn't it, little one?

- He's almost spiteful having to give the baby back. No? This is his now. He's kissed them, changed their diapers, bottle fed them- you can't just take this all back.

- He will, of course, but... something in his chest hurts.

Arkham games

- Angry he's been put in this situation. What kind of IDIOT would leave a baby in his care? Do they want the thing to starve? He's hardly taking care of himself.

- It does not go well in the beginning. Lots of crying as he scrambles to get the care together but none of the emotional needs.

- This plus a lack of sleep leads to Edward screaming at the little thing. Calling them every horrible name under the sun. Ungrateful, worthless, STUPID child- The thought hits him all at once like a ton of bricks.

- "I sound like my father." He's white knuckling the edge of the shitty crib. What next, Edward? Will you use them as a punching bag?

- His breathing is shaky as he scoops them up, "No, no, I'm sorry. You're not- you're just fine. Yes, you're alright. You're perfect just the way you are-" and suddenly the crying stops.

- A sigh of relief. He holds them close. He's going to automate the crib to rock with a button. Lots more holding. He's not... good at positive reinforcement but he's definitely giving it all he's got.

- When it's time for the baby to go, there's mixed feelings. Relief that he's no longer stuck with such a burden. Sadness that for a glimmer of a second, he saw something in himself he genuinely hated.

Batman 2022/Nashton

- The anxiety feels like it's going to eat him alive. What would he know about caring for children when his only experience was looking out for children younger than himself at the orphanage? He couldn't even do that right! Lots of self-doubt and intrusive thoughts at first.

- Sets them up in a room away from the stream setup. Can't have a baby visible when he shows up as the Riddler for his followers!

- Manages to get his shit together, talking to them about all the things he's gotten to take care of them with! Formula... ohhhh and blankets- soft cooing voice the baby seems to like.

- He didn't sleep much before anyways so having a baby around doesn't change that much. Actually, in a way, having the baby in his space gets him out of spiraling too hard at night. Weird side effect but he's not going to complain!

- Watches so many horror movies or weird shit with the baby in his lap as he explains behind the scenes or "this is what would really happen" facts to them. All while smiling at them.

- When he has to give the baby back, he almost doesn't want to. What, is he not fucking good enough? He knows logically it's what needs to happen but it adds to his feelings of isolation/not being good enough.

[crisis-on-infinite-batblogs]

DC vs. Vampires #3

"You were supposed to be East of Moldoff Street."

I will always always always be a sucker for naming streets in Gotham City after past artists and writers. It's such a perfect way to memorialize these legendary creators who contributed so many iconic characters and stories that we all know and love.

These are more than just easter eggs. Giordano Avenue and Moldoff Street are just little lines on a fictional map, but these eponymous streets quite literally make up the fabric of Gotham City. They are dedicated in honor, and in loving memory to all the comic book greats who have worked to bring this city to life.

Dick Giordano worked as an editor and inker for many years, eventually serving as the executive editor of DC comics for much of the 1980's. His name appeared on countless titles and his impact on the industry cannot be overstated. Everyone loves Dick Giordano.

A name you might be less familiar with is Sheldon "Shelly" Moldoff. During the Golden Age of comics Moldoff was a prolific cover artists for titles like All-American, Action, and All Star Comics. Beginning in 1940, he became the regular artist for Hawkman and designed the costume for Shiera Sanders aka Hawkgirl.

After being drafted into World War II, Moldoff became an early pioneer in horror comics, but it wasn't until 1953 that he began drawing for Batman and Detective Comics.

When Moldoff finally arrived in Gotham City, he was working as a ghost artist, drawing stories that would be credited to Bob Kane. At the time, DC employed plenty of these artists and it was a very common practice. The only difference with Shelly Moldoff was this: DC had no idea that he was working for them.

For nearly 15 years, Shelly Moldoff drew Batman on the down low, taking money under the table from Bob Kane. In a 1994 interview he had this to say of the experience:

"DC didn't know that I was involved; that was the handshake agreement I had with Bob: 'You do the work. You don't say anything.' No, he didn't pay great, but it was steady work, it was security... which is the compensation I got for being Bob's ghost– for keeping myself anonymous."

With little pay and zero recognition, you might expect an artist to put forth a subpar effort, or at least phone it in on occasion, but that's kind of the opposite of what happened. Shelly Moldoff and an anonymous army of other ghost artists churned out tons of new characters during this period that have stood the test of time: Calendar Man, Bat-Mite, Mr. Freeze, Ace the Bat-Hound!!!

Shelly Moldoff revived the Riddler. Shelly Moldoff gave us Poison Ivy!

During the Great DC Writers Purge of 1968, many veteran writers and artists lost their jobs after demanding fair pay, pensions, and health insurance. Shelly Moldoff was among them. His final ghost-drawn story was published in Batman #199, and it would be 30 years before he worked for DC again. Moldoff passed away in 2012. He was the last surviving contriubtor of Action Comics #1.

I don't even know how to end this. Before today I had never even heard of Sheldon Moldoff. After toiling in obscurity and keeping himself anonymous for so many years, I guess I'm just glad to know that Gotham City remembers him.

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

@deadgodjess yeah I thought I was done being peeved about this but I just spent a full forty minute yoga session unable to think about literally anything else. starting a new post because this one has gotten unwieldy but for anyone just joining us this is the tl;dr:

sorry it’s a day later and I’m still thinking about how dirty this godforsaken show [Gotham] did the riddler. why did you have to give him such a tacky ~ooooo mental illness is SCARY!! uh oh I killed my girlfriend by aCcIdEnT!!~ origin story when it would have been infinitely funnier for Ed to just run some numbers re: how many cases would actually get solved without him and come to the completely justifiable conclusion that he can absolutely get away with quitting his job and turning to a life of riddle-based crime.

I'm going to offer my alternative for what I, personally, think would have been a more fun Riddler buildup across Gotham's 4.5 season run. I am absolutely not seeking feedback, this is a thot exercise meant to be enjoyed by me, myself, and maybe like three people that I trust on this hellsite.

anyway having our boy Ed abruptly jump headfirst into the shallow end of the homicidal maniac pool was executed in a way that was not just wildly ableist but also mmmm dumb and boring as hell and really ripped away a lot of opportunities to use this character in a more interesting way, and by "more interesting" I cannot emphasize enough that I mean "ways that I think are funnier."

if I'm being totally honest I think producers/execs whoever got nervous about the show's continuation and insisted on pulling the trigger on Ed riddling out before season one ended in the hopes that having another Batman villain active pre-Batman would help build a little more railroad for this awful show to keep careening along on. this has to play out via the manifestation of a fucking evil alternate personality because, frankly, up until this point Ed has been characterized as pretty much a total sweetheart with absolutely zero ulterior motives and possibly the only brain cell in the entire Gotham City Police Department. he is literally Just Some Guy with hamfisted autism coding and a fondness for riddles who regularly gets dismissed and bullied by his colleagues, all of whom I wish would die in a fire (except for maybe Harvey Bullock because he's really the only man bringing any kind of eye candy to this show, but we're not here to talk about that).

what I'm getting at here is that the writers had a really great opportunity to spend a few seasons showing us how life in Gotham gradually wore down a man who was one a friendly and law-abiding colleague of Jim Gordon's into a little freak in spandex who cannot stop trying to one-up a man dressed as a bat. he actually could have been a compelling foil to Jimothy, whose whole deal is that he's somehow managed to remain The Only Honest Cop In Gotham despite years of horseshit; building on the relationship between the two of them and exploring how their paths eventually diverge could have been really cool and yes, I will be drawing on that in my posthumous script doctor.

as long as we're talking about the Riddler and basically everyone else in the show sans Selina (and... sort of Poison Ivy, idk, I don't like the in-universe age lift and I don't want to contemplate it too much) I think it's stupid that Gotham is basically setting up a universe where all of Batman's iconic enemies are actually more like a bunch of middle aged assholes that Gordon already has decade-old beef with. it's dumb but it's also what I have to work with because if we tweak things any further to make Bruce and all of his future rogues teenagers together I think we're just remaking Riverdale.

sorry we got a little lost in the weeds there, I wasn't originally planning on making that and I don't want to admit how much time I wasted on it. anyway after a little "oh boohoo I'm just a poor little guy I can't believe I did murders" Ed's pretty much straight to bugfuck crazy murdertown with every other villain on this show. everybody on Gotham is like two seconds away from committing homicide at all times except for MAYBE Bruce; pretty much every recurring antagonist is a kill-happy maniac and most of the one-off villains of the week are as well. even the Penguin gaslight gatekeep girlbosses his way through a truly staggering number of people in the first half dozen episodes alone. what I'm getting at here is that dropkicking the Riddler straight into the same mold isn't just ableist or lazy - it's also the very worst thing that writing can be, which is FUCKING BORING. what if, god forbid, we had one rogue bringing a different kind of sauce to the party? in this essay I will -

season one: my pitch here is actually so simple, because I literally just want to keep Ed's characterization the same for the entire season. no abrupt slip and slide into stabbing and/or choking people to death, just a weird little dude who's around and good at his job and has a little mug with a question mark on it. he shows up once an episode for two minutes to crack the case wide open and tell a riddle and the remind the audience that he's around. "yep, that's the Riddler," they'll say. "no need to give him a violent split personality, I know where this is going and I am indeed capable of waiting for that payoff."

season two: now at this point you might be saying "Makenzie wait - is your pitch going to assume that the original storyline of Gotham is otherwise proceeding as it did otherwise? because that's going to get pretty impossible pretty fast if the Riddler has a drastically different personality/role in the show." yeah hey listen man. listen. I don't give a shit about what actually happens in the show. I give a shit about the Riddler. don't ask about this again. this all takes place in an AU where Gotham is a competently written show; I know that's sort of a stretch but bear with me.

anyway season two is when we can start getting some cracks in Riddleboy's chipper little exterior but for god's sake, let's deploy a little subtlety. probably he needs to start getting bullied more - possibly because he's notably friendly with Jim and easier to bully than Bullock, Jim's only other friend. anyway, this is how Ed learns that sometimes fucking people over is okay, actually. nothing drastic, just manipulating evidence here and there to ruin the day (and then career) of some of the biggest assholes in the department and bolster his faves (Jim). I cannot emphasize enough that the first half of the season has to be about this man realizing that most of his coworkers are VERY DUMB and EXTREMELY EASY TO MISLEAD.

come the second half of season 2 we get to see him getting a little too cocky, which will ultimately lead to his downfall. tl;dr being smarter than everyone is fun but still doesn't solve the problem of nobody else noticing or caring that he's smarter than them, and it's really starting to rankle. this will be the point when Ed upgrades to like. full sending his own boss cut-up magazine ransom notes and shit making demands to try and steer the GCPD more efficiently. there are, obviously, subtle little riddles embedded in these letters, but Gordon is the only one who will notice because Gordon's the protagonist and gets to notice things. this will end in a big confrontation, whatever, he's not going to turn Ed in because he believes Ed was genuinely acting in the interest of flushing out dirty cops, but he's also a little bitch so he IS going to tell Ed that he'll turn him in if Ed doesn't resign. Ed goes quietly and with a frankly unsettling amount of glee that someone was finally smart enough to solve one of his little puzzles. personally I love when the Riddler won't really look at or acknowledge anyone who won't play his silly little games I think that's so fun of him.

season three: the first half of season three is actually by far the most fun for me because it involves Ed a.) doing the Riddler thing where he tries to be a private detective for a while and b.) getting mercilessly bullied by all of Gotham city for a bit. you can fill in the specifics of the goofs yourself but suffice to say he's just a plucky little guy investigating some weird ass shit and still getting dumped on a lot in the process. our boy is going to have to learn to get a little unscrupulous.

it's vital that during this half of the season Jim comes to him at least a couple of times to ask for input that frankly none of the useless sadsacks at the GCPD are qualified to provide now that Ed's gone, because they're all doing the equivalent of that John Mulaney bit where they look at a corpse and go "ew! clean it up!" instead of gathering anything useful in the way of evidence. for some reason that I can't QUITE put my finger on it seems important to establish that Jim Gordon is willing to work alongside people who are operating a bit outside the law as long as he believes their intentions are good. and listen - Ed will genuinely help him! but he is also absolutely going home and idly jotting down notes for how he'd get away with exactly the crimes he helped solve.

the second half of season three involves him getting nabbed by Someone and pretty much extorted into helping them work against the GCPD on account of being a former employee who knows exactly how they investigate. what ensues is a series of crime scenes that have an abundance of fake evidence designed to lead the cops in circles that go nowhere - UNLESS you piece together some extremely abstract hints being hidden there, because Ed is sincerely making an effort to alert his old GCPD chums to what's going on. except, oh no, the stress of being held hostage is getting to him and he is SORT OF starting to enjoy how good he is at this and also beating his head against the wall in frustration over how fucking stupid literally every single one of his former colleagues is. he'll get rescued (by Jim) by the end of the season but god will he be bitter by then.

also I said he was being forced to work for Someone and it truly could be anyone in this horseass show but like. come on. it's Penguin. the rest of canon can go to hell but it's so important to me that Penguin still wants to fuck the Riddler so bad it makes him look stupid. it's just hands down the funniest thing that happens in all of Gotham and I wouldn't change it for the world.

season four: alright so Eddie boy starts this season trying to go to therapy about his whole kidnapping and probably PTSD thing but we the audience will realize very quickly that he's getting twitchy and is just purposefully playing with like. MULTIPLE different therapists and giving them all wildly different information to see if he can get each of them to give him different diagnoses. he has absolutely no idea why he's doing this except that it's fun and he evidently can. this man is living on the knife edge he's so sweaty and gross and he wants to do crime again SO bad and is really running out of reasons why he shouldn't.

if this show were written by people I could trust I'd say we could actually do a really thrilling mental health(TM) storyline here focusing in on Ed getting increasingly manipulative and ruled by compulsive behavior. I'd say the crux of his arc in the first half of the season is Jim convincing Ed to check himself in to some kind of mental health facility for his own wellbeing - probably Arkham, since it seems to somehow be the only mental health facility in Gotham despite the fact that it appears to be patterned on ghoulish 19th century sanitariums more than anything. anyway, this lasts approximately one day before Ed disappears from the facility and leaves an elaborate riddle behind, thus ending his arc for the first half of the season.

second half starts as a straight up revenge plot against Penguin because I love when these awful little homos fight with each other, but Gotham being Gotham I think a bit of an emotional roller coaster can ensue. Penguin can definitely convince Ed to ease off and work with him as more of a partner for a bit, but I still want this Riddler to be a murder lite contrast to most of the other villains in the cast so I think that will be the point of contention that ultimately drives them apart. the Penguin CANNOT stop lethally girlbossing; it's his first love.

anyway after that Ed's just fucking with the GCPD for shits and giggles because fuck 'em, am I right? he's definitely got the whole question mark suit Look going by this point; hanging out with the Penguin for too long changes a man.

season five: god I don't even know; there were only 12 episodes and one of them was for the flash forward. he tells some shitty riddles and probably gives Gordon one final helping hand but in a way that benefits him, firmly securing his status as "sometimes useful, always a bastard." all that really matters this still happens to him. this is the last we see of him, dangling next to Robin Lord Taylor in just the least convincing fake gut I've ever seen in god's green earth.

anyway sorry this got so long I'm genuinely appalled and disgusted with myself. I have problems!

[curious-menace]

can u rank iterations of the riddler in terms of how het they aren’t

I have a the best anons :)

Riddler, in general is het'nt. Nothing against het Riddler, het folks or het Headcanons and shipping. This ask made me snort coffee milk out my nose in Starbucks so I'm going to answer it in the joking spirit it was intended

BOTTOM OF THE PILE, CONFIRMED HET, IS GOTHAM RIDDLER. Which is very unfortunate BC he dresses like this and has murdered several women . net loss for the hets imho . I would give him a point back for style but that's not the game we're playing. 0/10(Side note, Cory Michael Smyth 10/10.)

Next up, probably het but we can't know for sure is Telltale riddler. I can't tell you why but he does have very straight vibes. When I ask women what Riddler they want to fuck, 99% of the time it's this one. 2/10

Next is Arkham riddler. Now. I cannon him as bi or bi/ace. However rocksteady are cowards so that's not happening. Arkham Riddler is straight(against my wishes and common sense), but literally no one in gotham believes him. 3.5/10

Hush Riddler. I canon this one is very in the closet. I have a hard time not seeing most riddlers as bi and tbh this one is no exception. Arkham Riddler is afraid of men, he prefers a feminine partner but Hush Riddler isn't fussed, as long as they give him all their attention 24/7. Man's a solid 5/10 on the hetnot scale

Young justice riddler. Gay but he gives me pick-me gay vibes. Any photo of him is mentally lablled gay people I do not respect /j 7/10

Original riddler . If you need me to explain why he's a 9/10 then you haven't been paying attention (couldn't find my pic of of riddles, please accept 66 riddler )

BTAS riddler ! very not straight! not sure in what way but he extrudes lgbtqia+ comfort character vibes. queer icon 10/10 bc i love him

(yes you do eddie. yes you do )

last and certainly not least is Zero year riddler. if you look up "be gay do crime" you see his face. i would say queer patron saint, but that implies he's good. this riddler tortures lgbtqia-phobes for fun. i havent read dark city or secret city yet but im 99% sure its riddler just being dramatic bc he cant fuck bruce wayne. the other 1 percent is him doing fortnite dances or something . 11/10 wears a vest under his fav suit that says trans lives matter 24/7

📷

i think thats all the riddlers or at least all the ones i give a shit about. dont take this post too seriously im just shitposting

[riddle-me-ri]

He has a crush on another villain henchwoman. She is arguing with her boss in the next room and he hears a slap sound. When he goes to find out what happened Y/N is touching her red cheek looking shocked. 

For Riddler BTAS, ZY, YJ, Arkhamverse

A/N: protective Eddie, protective Eddie, protective Eddie. I’m so here for it. Also for these scenarios I’m coming up with a villain of my own, and it’s all the same bad guy, and he’ll just be referred to as “boss” via the reader, cause I can’t come up with an original villain name nor do I wanna use some of the other rogues cause I don’t want anyone to think I’m implying anything about that rogue (albeit I know none of them are opposed to hurting anyone, but no one they cared about or that was close…well to an extent..I’m just gonna drop it rip)

Also, so sorry uhh this scenarios slightly deviate from your set-up Pati, I just didn’t want it to get too repetitive lol but the idea and the reactions are still there 

Trigger Warnings: strong language, abuse, and violence. If this sorta scenario is triggering, please disregard!

Riddlers x F!Reader - You Shouldn’t Have Done That

Arkhamverse Riddler: 

The loud slap from behind the door made his blood run icicle cold. 

In his mind, all the times he’d been slapped, punched, choked, and beaten by Batman played back in rapid succession. He will never admit how much those assault hurt him or how much the trauma genuinely effected his psyche. As much as he’d like the idea of someone holding his face or caressing him, he knew he’d likely flinch away in fear of being struck again. 

Now, that, that is probably what you are experiencing. He refused to have that mental and physical damage happen to you too.

Edward twisted the door knob until it was about to be yanked off the hinges. Until he quickly recovered and began picking the lock. 

He could hear you start crying softly from the thin door, but he had to remain focused. 

The door slammed open. You were on the ground, your back leaning against your boss’ desk. Whimpering, curling into yourself in the fetal position. Your boss looming over you with some proud smirk on his face. 

“See? This is what happens…WHEN YOU TALK BACK TO ME!” 

When Ed finally took in the scene before him, all he saw was red. “You won’t DARE want to find out what happens NEXT IF you HIT HER AGAIN!” 

Your boss jumped and spun around to the direction of the voice. 

“R-R-Riddler…what the hell are you-”

“That’s Mr. Riddler to you! Back away from her IMMEDIATELY! I promise you will regret what happens if you disobey!” 

“What? Her?” Your boss started chuckling. “C’mon, she ain’t worth–”

“Just goes to show how imbecilic your working cranium ACTUALLY is, and just how little you truly know…if not nothing. GET OUT!” 

Your boss was fairly new to the underworld, slowly trying to climb the ranks higher and higher. He had yet to come across any of Batman’s iconic Rogues Gallery. He never planned on it. Plus no one wanted to be part of Riddler’s games if they could avoid it. Your boss ran past Ed and out of the office, but not before Edward planted a tracker on your boss’ coattails.

The lump in his throat got bigger, his heart beat faster, and his cheeks reddened when you gave him a soft thankful kiss for the rescue. 

Capullo/Zero Year Riddler:

You were a sniveling mess. You kept trying to dry up your tears that were still falling. As you rubbed your nose along your sleeve, there was a slight sting to your cheek. 

Your boss was an asshole but you would never have thought…you didn’t even do anything wrong. You didn’t even “talk back.” You were just asking a question. 

As you made your way out of the building, officially putting an end to this shit day. You were taken aback by a man wearing a gratuitous amount of green. 

“Hellooo..” Edward was leaning against the side of his car, wiggling his fingers at you. 

Oh, shit. You forgot you were going on a date with him after work. 

Ed stood up from his car and walked toward but could tell something was off. 

“Hey, what’s the matter–I haven’t even said any–”

“Don’t!” You cut him off, “please, just don’t not today..”

“I’m sorry…I-I we’ll have to make a rain check..”

You tried to walk past him and catch a cab, but he pulled you back. 

“Ed! Please…”

You looked up at him and were shocked to see a rather stoic look on his face. He was examining your cheek, no doubt still brightly red with some lingering finger marks on it from the strike. Then bright blazing green eyes stared into your own. 

“I-It’s fine.”

“Who?”

You shook your head. Ed started walking straight towards your building. 

“Wait–Ed! No!” 

“Don’t worry, I’ll be back. Just stay here.” 

You reached your hand out in a feign attempt to stop him, but he was already walking straight into the building. 

A few minutes go by, before you know it a flood of people start screaming and running out of the building. You’re still standing by Ed’s car. Startled and confused in all the hysterics surrounding you.

Something about Riddler…something about gunshots and the boss man…

Edward strolled out behind the crowd, swinging his cane and whistling a happy-go-lucky tune. 

“C’mon honey. Let’s get your face cleaned up and I’ll treat ya to dinner, huh? I may even foot the bill this time.”

BTAS Riddler: 

Edward was anxiously shuffling on the balls of his feet. He’s never felt this way about anyone before, but he wanted to make the proper steps to court you. A good place to start he figured was leave a bouquet of flowers on your desk, with a sweet note attached to it.

However, as he made his way to your office, he rudely bumped shoulders with a taller, scruffier looking man storming out of your office. Ed was annoyed, but tried not to make a scene for your sake, as he opened your door to your office. 

Only to find you in your chair behind your desk. You were weeping, tenderly patting your reddened cheek. You look up at Edward who stood there speechless. Hurriedly, you tried to wipe your tears and fix your uniform. 

“E-Eddie…um..w-what a nice surprise..I um…sorry, sorry. I’m a little out of sorts at the moment.” 

“Y/N…darling, d-did that man who just left..”

“Edward, please!” You jumped from your seat to meet Ed in the middle of your office. “H-He’s my boss…I…I’m okay..”

“No, you’re not! No one has the right to harm you! Whether it’s your boss or the Batman!” Ed declared. He handed you the flowers and began making his way out your office. 

“Eddie, please.” You put a hand to his shoulder which made him stop to look back at you. 

“Please…just…not here…hm? I need you here with me, please?” You sniffled. 

Whatever rage was flaring his green eyes softly simmered as he looked at your soft tired face. His death grip on your door knob slowly dropped. He grabbed the hand that was on his shoulder and brought it up to his lips and kissed the back of it. 

“Of course, darling.”

The next morning at work. 

“Hey, what happened to the boss?” One of your co-workers asked. 

You stopped from getting your daily coffee to eavesdrop. 

“I heard the Riddler put him through the ringer, literally fried the boss man’s brain. He can’t walk, talk, nothin! Reduced to a full grown infant!” 

You couldn’t help but smirk behind your cup at the news. 

Young Justice Riddler: 

Edward was not always one for confrontation, especially when he knew he would be outnumbered and/or outstrengthed. If he could talk or weasel his way out of something he absolutely would. 

However, when he saw you get struck by your boss. Sure he was frozen in place but not nearly as long as he usually was.

Ed never was great at hiding his feelings for you, and this next move solidified that notion. Removing any sort of doubt you may have had left. 

“You shouldn’t have done that!” He threatened your boss. 

“Oh, yeah? And what’re you gonna do about it, sonny?” Your boss asked, condescendingly, looking between you and Ed. “Bitch deserved it.” 

“No she didn’t!” Ed snarled. “But you deserve this.” 

“Eddie?” You asked softly as you scooted over to the side of the room he was on. 

He pulled out a small device that looked like a small remote control from his jacket pocket. Before your boss had a chance to let out another smart quip, thousands of volts of electricity left the small remote control and landed on various parts of your boss’ body. Especially his face and head. 

Edward held the button down, sending more and more volts to your boss’ nervous system. 

“Eddie!” You shouted.

You saying his name broke him out of his reverie and he released the trigger. Your boss plopped to the floor like a dead weight. Every now and then he was twitching. 

“A-Are you okay?” Ed got down on your level on the floor and looked over your wounded cheek. 

You took his hand in yours and smiled softly at him. “I-I’ll be okay, especially with you around. Thank you.” You leaned in and gave him a kiss on the cheek. 

Now there were two unconscious bodies on the floor.

[bathtub4rats]

To all the 3 people in the zero year riddler tag, I’m so sorry, I did not mean for riddler mlp to be the icon, I apologize

[enigmamuse]

hiya! I'm a huge paul dano fan so it looks like I have to dip my toes into more riddler shit--you're the only riddler stan i'm following--if you have any idea on where the hell I start or if there's a defininitive riddler collection or some shit I can pick up and you're willing to tell me, I'd be grateful! I've played the batman games, bought a few batwoman comics and love the nolanverse, thats about it, though.

Thanks for following & strap in bc this is kind of a long recommendations post. Idk if I'd consider this fully comprehensive vs. what I consider you might be interested in/giving you ground work for where to start.

BTAS (Batman the Animated Series) gave Riddler three featuring episodes - the writers supposedly found him difficult to write for. This is where they start making Edward more tech savvy - he’s an ex-game designer/programmer spurned by his boss. A whole darling, but certainly not as gritty as other versions. Not 100% necessary, but I do consider him a blueprint that a lot of modern Riddlers have to thank for keeping the character relevant.

Arkhamverse, particularly City, Origins, and Knight depending on which part of his story you’re keen on seeing. Origins is his backstory where he’s part of the GCPD, City is more standard Riddler antics, Knight he’s in a decline. There are Riddler content-specific videos online of gameplay if you don’t feel like grinding through every trophy though. Good if you like men with Issues.

Assault on Arkham is an animated movie connected to the Arkham games - taking place before the events of Arkham Asylum in the Arkhamverse. I think he’s very cute here.

Hush: I recommend reading the comic versus the animated movie, unless you like being disappointed. Or at least reading it first. Riddler’s role here isn’t the main focus for most of the story, but he’s still a key player.

Zero Year is not so much a “back story” like his childhood, but sets him up as a genius who worked for Wayne Enterprises, later taking over Gotham. One of my favs & shows off Eddie at his best (worst?)

The War of Jokes and Riddles (shortened to twojar) is unfortunately iconic. I’m not super into a lot of New 52 stuff, but twojar has some good riddles and shows Edward as capable, which earns merit in my book. They made him a chad though, which was kinda weird.

Batman Forever. I used to love watching this as a kid; it has aged decently. Edward again works for Wayne Enterprises & is obsessed with Bruce. Val Kilmer is not very good as Batman (opinion), but Jim Carrey is a fun Riddler, and I wish they kept his hair from the beginning of the movie. Not gritty so much as camp, but I hard suggest it since it’s the other live-action movie that you might want to compare the upcoming one to.

There are a bunch of other Riddlers like classic, 2004, 60s Gorshin, Telltale, etc. if you find yourself really into the character + I will probably post this and then immediately realize I’ve forgotten one of my favorites.

Readcomiconline has a good compilation of riddler comics if you’re looking for older content of him. They also have Hush and Zero Year available (listed under Batman Secret City/Dark City).

TL;DR If you’re looking for darker Riddler, I would recommend Zero Year, Hush (though it’s not technically riddler-centric), and twojar the most. IMO those are his most popular stories where they let him be more of a viable threat & puppet master, which I think is his best role. (twojar being the only one that’s unavailable online last I checked?) HBO Max has BTAS, Batman Forever, and the animated movies, as well as a free trial (might need to double check, I pay for mine;;) My other suggestion is watching Batman Forever as a reference point.

[it-is-i-zim]

hello, new tumblr friend (in my head i’ve defaulted to calling you Zim but if there is another name by which you wish to be graced then please do let me know)!

i’m headed to my local bookstore (which has a FANTASTIC collection of dc comics) in order to purchase a few new comics… would you happen to have any suggestions on riddler-centered stories? i’ve heard zero year is excellent, but i’m looking to spend like all of my money.

cheers, lo

Zim or Moss is fine.

As for comic recommendations... Robin Vol 2 ,(1999), issues 62-65. You will not be disappointed. They aren't exactly Riddler-centric but he's absolutely the main villain in these issues. Issue 62 in particular has an absolute iconic panel.