createandchaos

[createandchaos]

Guys I want to bring attention to the Revive Gaza’s Farmland initiative!!!! APN is working w farmers in Gaza to help restore Gaza’s agricultural sector. They’re just shy of being within 67% of their goal at the moment. Please show them some love by donating & spreading the word

[createandchaos]

I cant believe this tweet is how I find out

[createandchaos]

coming to the realization that i have different visions of what apollo looks like depending on where i'm seeing him. like i have my rrverse vision in mind for him and now i have a strictly myth look for him cooking in my mind. and maybe for others too. but also some stay the same regardless. i need to restrain myself at this point because i have wayyyyyy too many ideas rn

[createandchaos]

decepticon may cry... deadlock's awakening

based on this

[createandchaos]

Working on a project with a few other artists rn and it reminded me of the Oh Hellos song Dear Wormwood, which is one of the first songs I ever connected to ToA and Lester all the way back in 2019. The lyrics fit him so well, and I would recommend giving the song a listen if you haven't already!

[createandchaos]

Classics-tober Day 31: Ghost

CHORUS

Why let grief eat you alive?

It was long ago

she took your father:

her hand came out of unholy dark

and cut him down.

[createandchaos]

did I not love them best? I who birthed, who nursed, who killed them?

[createandchaos]

Omg me cameo beneath the cut!!

But yeah, fully agree with Alder. There is a lot of historical and cultural context embedded into these surviving works, you can not bash and wave it away as fanfiction bc it is very much not. These are surviving works of culture.

On the The Three Theban Plays, fully recommend reading them, they tell the story of the leadup to and aftermath of the Seven Against Thebes, one of the last wars before the Trojan War. My recommendation for translation is Robert Fagles. It's the one I read and he has introductions before each play explaining the historical and cultural context behind them and even has a chapter before the actual translation discussing Greece and the role of theater within ancient greek society, especially as these were written over the course of the Peloponnesian War! It enhanced my understanding of why certain actions had these reactions and what it may've been like to watch the plays then. :))

As for the Iliad and Odyssey, if you want alternative recommendations, Fagles also did a translation of The Iliad and Odyssey as well as The Aeneid. I'm also currently reading The Iliad with translation done by Caroline Alexander and enjoying it a lot as someone who's never read epics and sometimes struggles reading really flowy language.

Did you consider the Roman's works and sources as "ancient fanfics"? I've been seeing people erasing or reducing the roman material in mythology just for being roman. I thought is was okey just to make difference (Greek Mythology and Roman Mythology) i don't think it was fanfiction... But maybe i'm wrong, i'm not an expert on this. Which i can consider a reliable source and which a fanfic, i want to begin to study more sources but i don't want to make something wrong, specially with the "Greco-Roman" thing T-T

Breaking the inbox silence just for you anon! (everyone waiting in my inbox i'm so sorry pwease forgive me i've been so busy </3)

First let's define the word - what is "fanfiction"?

According to the Dictionary, it's "fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, movie, ect."

Now let's talk about the million-dollar question - are the Roman myths fanfiction of Greek mythology?

*inhale* no. not in my opinion.

Firstly, Roman mythology existed on its own before the Greek/Roman syncretism, with stark differences in the Before period compared to the After.

Example? Janus and Diana were married. Diana only became a single, non-committed goddess after her syncretism with Artemis. Apollo straight up didn't exist, nor had a 1:1 counterpart, though notably his Etruscan-Italian equivalent (and predecessor, if you ask me!) Aplu was prominent in nearby regions.

So Roman myths very well already existed by the time of the Greco-Roman mashup!

However. The After, of course, does hold a mighty fine argument for their Hellenistic era myths to be labeled "fanfiction", due to how Roman authors did take Greek myths and made their own changes to them (with various reception lol).

Especially when some changes are very much in contention with their Greek versions...

The thing about the whole Greek-Roman thing is that Rome did, at the very least, admire Greece's culture. And due to syncretism (which Rome did to everyone they conquered, it wasn't just kept to Greece) they ended up mashing their gods together, ending up changing their own mythology too.

So in a way...they made something new out of Old Rome mythos, and Ancient Greek mythos. I guess in a way it could be seen as "writing fanfiction" then.

Buuuut here's the kicker that I must stress:

This is a religion we are talking about. And no matter what denomination, pantheon, ect ect you subscribe to - or if you don't! - it is extremely important to remember that these figures are not made-up in their followers' eyes. They are not characters in a fairy tale.

Which -glances at the many retellings- is why it's so hard to find a book that genuinely appreciates these cultures, no matter Greek or Roman.

Retellings? Definitely published fanfiction because the mythological people are treated as fictionalized characters...with various degrees of accuracy to the source material.

Roman mythology? It's own thing, then it morphed into something new due to exposure to different cultures, and remains a religious community to this day.

I have my own gripes with Roman myths, but I do try to not invalidate them. Heck, I've been trying to read Ovid's Metamorphoses (re: failing because I've been swamped lololol) and so far I'm enjoying it! Some of Ovid's stuff is my favorite version even if it's different from the Greek one (re: Daphne). It's just a matter of preference.

I've cracked a joke now and then about Roman myths being Greek mythology fanfiction but that's not really quite true. Both are valid ancient religions with their own interpretations of multiple gods, one of whom just happened to be so inspired by the other they changed their own mythos (fascinating, that is).

To sum it all up: Roman myths are valid. Even the ones I, and you, don't personally vibe with. But I must stress that Greece and Roman had cultural differences that do, in fact, influence their own mythos.

Roman myths completely left out Cassandra's oath in their myths, something that is extremely integral to Greek society.

Greece does not equal Rome, just as Rome does not equal Greece. They are distinct with unique cultural differences (I mean. *gestures to Greek society's view on singing and dancing compared to Rome's* See what I mean?)

So I'm in agreement with you anon. Roman myths aren't fanfiction.

There are fanfics that are better written and way more respectful of Greek culture than some of the retellings I've seen though smh

As for what sources to look into? Honestly, any of the ancient texts are good places to start, but I also strongly recommend reading up on Greek and Roman culture, because it does very much influence their respective mythos!

Greek Era Sources I Recommend:

The Iliad & The Odyssey (duh. Emily Wilson's translation is good for beginners, but you'll also be missing out on some pretty awesome wordplay and turn-of-phrase. I have the Samuel Butler translation, which uses the Latin names much to my chagrin lol but I'm pretty sure I've reblogged a post discussing four others with really good translations. I'll link it when I find it.)

Theogony and Works & Days (A good overview of basically every god in Greek mythology, and hits the highlights of the mythos)

The Homeric Hymns (You want the gods' prominent myths? Look no further.)

The Oresteia (Agamemnon, The Libation Bearers, and The Eumenides are all plays written by Aeschylus. It has very good cultural aspects woven into it!)

Oedipus Rex (I have not read Sophocles's work yet, but my good moot @createandchaos has been reading it and has a whole thread on Discord yapping about it that i still have to read so it must be good! :D)

Prometheus Bound (Aeschylus returns!! haven't read it yet but i heard it has Koios mentioned in it so OBVIOUSLY i have to read it. and so must you.)

Roman Era Sources I Recommend:

The Bibliotheca/The Library of Greek Mythology (basically an encyclopedia! resource rich!)

Ovid's Metamorphoses (YES I KNOW he's like #1 'make the gods look bad' offender BUT there's political reasons behind that *glances at Augustus* plus he has some bangers. Apollo & Hyacinthus. Orpheus & Eurydice.

Hyginus's Fabulae and Hyginus's Astronomica (never read either BUT i do like some of Hyginus's stuff. still want to shake him for the Diana and Orion "only man she ever loved" take on them but digress i've beaten that dead horse before. for that shot i took at him here's some praise: i like his version of Nyctimene over Ovid's. it's nicer to Minerva.)

Avoid:

that one guy who made Acantha the fuck up do NOT trust his ass. his so-called "accurate" sources do NOT support his made-up, ENGLISH-ERA myth. (yes i have beef with him)

that one gal who had Cassandra and Helenus's prophetic abilities come from snakes licking their ears. fake news she's an american poet NOT a true source. (update here's further discussion on this PLEASE READ)

that other gal who sanitized the fuck outta greek mythology aka the gal you may know as the "persephone went willingly with hades to the underworld" gal. do not trust, keep a 100-foot pole between you and her.

that other guy who had Midas turn his daughter into gold. no such daughter existed before then.

i dunno any others but ALWAYS check when a version was written, and also check out their sources because you never know (this is how my apollo's lovers post is sooo researched i literally pdf the book if i can't find a peek of the passage i'm looking for)

feel free to add onto the post for other recommendations! oh! and if you have any good resources on Greek and/or Roman culture/philosophy/ect., feel free to drop as well! I've been pulling from my library's copy of A Day in Old Rome (I've learned a lot, and I'm not done reading it yet. warning though very obviously written by a close-minded Christian guy so take it with a grain of salt, though I've had a pretty easy time identifying the Important things in it. There's also another book on Rome at my library soooo that's next. or one of the two on Greece. we'll see lol)

[createandchaos]

i finally got around to drawing them after having their designs in my sketchbook years now and slightly improving in my art style

[createandchaos]

this is about procrastinating. or executive dysfunction. i think

[createandchaos]

Apollo and Daphne! 🍃

Step-by-step tutorials, speedpaints, etc. are available for this piece on my Patreon.

Prints

[createandchaos]

Young king of Argos 🫦

[createandchaos]

STEVE ROGERS/CAPTAIN AMERICA & NAMOR THE SUB-MARINER in INVADERS (2019)

[createandchaos]

about to begin a new project/drawing as if i don't have several others i need to take care of first and actually have some stuff prepped for

[createandchaos]

i cannot find a single reliable source for this story but honestly at this point i am willing to just take it at face value because nothing will be funnier to me than ajax and achilles getting so into their board game that they don’t notice that the trojans are literally about to kill them

[createandchaos]

the princess and the dragon of colchis

I've been SO crazy about Medea lately. colchian dragon design is based on THIS kylix where it eats Jason <3

[createandchaos]

sometimes you need dialogue tags and don't want to use the same four