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[schildpadkneus]

... ♥

been thinking about them a lot lately

[schildpadkneus]

A Norwegian newspaper reports 6 countries (UK, Ireland, Greece, Norway, Portugal and Switzerland) had almost withdrawn because of what I'll summarize as a shitty work environment. Greece has since denied this.

Since the EBU clearly needs more severe measures than simply listening to participants and audience, the only weapon we have is threatening to withdraw. The UK withdrawing is an especially big threat, considering they're one of the Big 5.

I really hope they continue on that thought and more countries join in not wanting to participate if the EBU doesn't improve.

Several artists have now spoken out about how Eurovision was not quite as fun as they make it seem, to put it lightly.

EBU, where is your fucking zero tolerance policy when it comes to protecting the artists?

In light of Joost Klein's incident, S10 (Netherlands 2022) has spoken up about her experience at Eurovision. She stated that she did have fun and she wanted to be there but it took a toll on her because it was 2 weeks of very long days, everyone wanting something from her and her boundaries being overstepped. Backstage really wasn't a pleasant experience.

This year seemed to be particularly bad with the bad behaviour of the Israeli delegation and the politics of Israel being allowed to compete in the first place.

A bunch of artists started speaking out as soon as they were safe from EBU's censorship, but even before that we got snippets of what was going on, even if you put the Joost incident to the side.

The EBU did not do anything to protect artists from the Israeli delegation filming them without their consent. It took 3 artists refusing to walk the flag parade (Ireland, Switzerland, Greece) for them to even take it seriously.

They did nothing about the Israeli commentator breaking rules of conduct by calling Bambie Thug (Ireland) a monster and refusing to use the right pronouns (they are nonbinary and use they/them).

Sylvester Belt (Lithuania) and Gåte (Norway) have both spoken up about how it was not as fun as it is made to look. Sylvester even went as far as to call it traumatic and Gåte nearly withdrew.

The general consensus is that many artists this year felt like they were put in this political position because the EBU allowed Israel to compete, which is completely unreasonable because that is not their job and the opposite of what the EBU claims Eurovision is about.

Now the elephant in the room: I think Joost should have been punished for what he did and considering we don't know what happened, we can't confidently say his disqualification was an inappropriate punishment. You lot would have reacted very differently if he wasn't a crowd favourite and it was, say, Dons from Lithuania who did it and got disqualified. (I'm just trying to make a point don't read too much into it)

Putting aside how the disrespect towards his boundaries from the EBU could have been a direct trigger for Joost's actions, by taking so long to respond they did irreperable damage to his reputation. They allowed rumours to brew and now there are hundreds if not thousands of people convinced he beat a woman and using it as a weapon against him.

I am so glad the EBU is finally being criticized, I have not even TOUCHED how their apolitical stance seems to exist out of only political moves. Disallowing certain songs is understandable, banning flags and censoring artists and audience and editing applause over boos is manipulative and to an extent propaganda. That is everything but apolitical.

Several delegations and even the European Commision have been confirmed to want a few words with the EBU and I hope they will finally change for the better.

[schildpadkneus]

Dit is puur uit interesse vat niks persoonlijk op <3

Voel je vrij om je mening toe te lichten! Zolang je het netjes houdt, natuurlijk.

[schildpadkneus]

kill me now

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Joost is denying all allegations of threatening the employee.

His story is that he simply pushed the camera away and did not threaten her.

Multiple witnesses do state he was exhibiting aggressive behaviour, but basically everyone on Klein's team has stated the incident was not as severe as it is made to look.

Either way the EBU have dug their own grave with the Dutch public. A huge amount of people have stated they no longer want to participate in Eurovision. Even if you count the homophobes who think it's just one big pride parade, that number would never have been that big - I think 65% of those polled - if the EBU didn't also hurt fans of the contest.

Since there is a lot of misinformation when it comes to the "incident" that got Joost Klein disqualified I figured I'd put a post out with information from actual news outlets and not speculations from social media users.

If you are too lazy to read everything, here's a summary of everything I've been able to find:

After his performance in the semi finale, Joost was filmed despite agreements he wouldn't be.

The camera woman did not listen when he asked her to stop several times.

Joost got angry and made the camera woman in question feel so threatened the police was called on Joost.

Despite what fans think, it was confirmed by Dutch commentator Cornald Maas that the Israeli act and their delegation were not involved. I understand the frustration with their participation and I ranted about their disgusting behaviour at Eurovision here, but they were not involved with this incident.

He did not hit or even touch the woman involved.

Nor did she make any remarks about his parents.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

Continue to read for more details.

Edited only for later addition (as indicated) and slightly changed the wording because I was rambling in the initial post.

According to Avrotros (the Dutch broadcaster of Eurovision), Joost had made a threatening motion towards the woman.

According to the Swedish Aftonbladet, multiple witnesses say he behaved very aggressively and damaged/broke(?) the camera.

The rest of this will be speculating. Hopefully as unbiased as possible.

Based on other interviews and discussions about the incident in Dutch media, it sounds like Joost was probably just very overwhelmed. It is reasonable to think the artists are under a lot of pressure to perform well, and it's fair to conclude the controversy of Israel's participation has only added to artists' frustration and the pressure. Add the whole aspect of this being Joost's childhood dream and the passing of his parents and the fact he had already complained about the many many rules of eurovision and you get this explosion of emotions and frustrations. Apparently he also gets very emotional during the outro, and I imagine such a performance does come with loads of adrenaline.

Considering that nice little cocktail of stress, frustrations, emotions and adrenaline, it is likely he just snapped. He was already on the edge, and then the employee filmed him when he didn't want to be filmed and didn't back off when he asked her to, so he did something stupid and irrational.

That is a human response, I don't think he's a bad person for that, I just think he did something stupid in the heat of the moment. If it was something really bad he would've been arrested and locked up, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. That does not mean he should go unpunished, however.

Whatever he did, he made this photographer/camera woman (sources alternate between which one it was) feel so threatened the police got involved. I trust this judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I do think she should have stopped filming when she was asked, but we don't know the full story here. She could have misunderstood the situation, maybe she was unaware of the agreement she should not have been filming him, maybe it was just a stupid mistake.

Regardless of what truly happened, I hope we can all agree both were in the wrong but both have also been punished enough now.

The employee in question should not have been filming in the first place and stopped when asked.

Joost should not have done whatever it was he did.

For the love of god, please stop meddling in situations we know virtually nothing about and definitely stop taking sides. It is never ok to wish horrible things upon anyone.

We don't know what happened and chances are we will never fully know. We don't even know any of these people, we don't know what they are like, we only have little bits and pieces.

I also really want to know but it's not that difficult to just shut up and not say anything in favour of or against anyone until we have more details. You can condemn people for their actions but not when we don't even know what those actions were.

They both should have been punished and they both were.

A bunch of you should have been punished for the vile things I've seen you spout about Joost or this poor woman.

Basic fucking decency and common sense is not that difficult.

Later addition: (I've calmed down a bit)

I posted this about an hour ago but I want to add I do support Joost and feel bad for him but if it is true he punched and broke a camera it disqualification was not an unreasonable punishment. The awful rumours were just an unnecessary kick in the stomach.

If it turns out he did not damage the camera I will happily eat my words.

It is a pity he did not perform in the grand finale considering the huge potential it had but we can't excuse that behaviour. I hope he learns from this situation enough to prevent himself from getting in more trouble.

This does not mean I support the ebu btw <3 fuck the ebu

[schildpadkneus]

Ah yes never saw this one coming

According to an israeli journalist, the israeli government paid for a massive Eurovision televoting campaign

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I'd like to add I think it's ridiculous it's just expected that all the artists are ok with being filmed almost constantly and right after performing. Yes, it's a huge media circus and you kind of know what you're signing up for I suppose, but does that mean people are suddenly allowed to record you without consent even though that was not part of the contract?

It is not that difficult to respect boundaries. Ask if they want to be filmed, and if they say no, then don't. Don't just do it. It's crazy how mainstream media for some reason has different rules than the rest of us.

Several artists have now spoken out about how Eurovision was not quite as fun as they make it seem, to put it lightly.

EBU, where is your fucking zero tolerance policy when it comes to protecting the artists?

In light of Joost Klein's incident, S10 (Netherlands 2022) has spoken up about her experience at Eurovision. She stated that she did have fun and she wanted to be there but it took a toll on her because it was 2 weeks of very long days, everyone wanting something from her and her boundaries being overstepped. Backstage really wasn't a pleasant experience.

This year seemed to be particularly bad with the bad behaviour of the Israeli delegation and the politics of Israel being allowed to compete in the first place.

A bunch of artists started speaking out as soon as they were safe from EBU's censorship, but even before that we got snippets of what was going on, even if you put the Joost incident to the side.

The EBU did not do anything to protect artists from the Israeli delegation filming them without their consent. It took 3 artists refusing to walk the flag parade (Ireland, Switzerland, Greece) for them to even take it seriously.

They did nothing about the Israeli commentator breaking rules of conduct by calling Bambie Thug (Ireland) a monster and refusing to use the right pronouns (they are nonbinary and use they/them).

Sylvester Belt (Lithuania) and Gåte (Norway) have both spoken up about how it was not as fun as it is made to look. Sylvester even went as far as to call it traumatic and Gåte nearly withdrew.

The general consensus is that many artists this year felt like they were put in this political position because the EBU allowed Israel to compete, which is completely unreasonable because that is not their job and the opposite of what the EBU claims Eurovision is about.

Now the elephant in the room: I think Joost should have been punished for what he did and considering we don't know what happened, we can't confidently say his disqualification was an inappropriate punishment. You lot would have reacted very differently if he wasn't a crowd favourite and it was, say, Dons from Lithuania who did it and got disqualified. (I'm just trying to make a point don't read too much into it)

Putting aside how the disrespect towards his boundaries from the EBU could have been a direct trigger for Joost's actions, by taking so long to respond they did irreperable damage to his reputation. They allowed rumours to brew and now there are hundreds if not thousands of people convinced he beat a woman and using it as a weapon against him.

I am so glad the EBU is finally being criticized, I have not even TOUCHED how their apolitical stance seems to exist out of only political moves. Disallowing certain songs is understandable, banning flags and censoring artists and audience and editing applause over boos is manipulative and to an extent propaganda. That is everything but apolitical.

Several delegations and even the European Commision have been confirmed to want a few words with the EBU and I hope they will finally change for the better.

[schildpadkneus]

Several artists have now spoken out about how Eurovision was not quite as fun as they make it seem, to put it lightly.

EBU, where is your fucking zero tolerance policy when it comes to protecting the artists?

In light of Joost Klein's incident, S10 (Netherlands 2022) has spoken up about her experience at Eurovision. She stated that she did have fun and she wanted to be there but it took a toll on her because it was 2 weeks of very long days, everyone wanting something from her and her boundaries being overstepped. Backstage really wasn't a pleasant experience.

This year seemed to be particularly bad with the bad behaviour of the Israeli delegation and the politics of Israel being allowed to compete in the first place.

A bunch of artists started speaking out as soon as they were safe from EBU's censorship, but even before that we got snippets of what was going on, even if you put the Joost incident to the side.

The EBU did not do anything to protect artists from the Israeli delegation filming them without their consent. It took 3 artists refusing to walk the flag parade (Ireland, Switzerland, Greece) for them to even take it seriously.

They did nothing about the Israeli commentator breaking rules of conduct by calling Bambie Thug (Ireland) a monster and refusing to use the right pronouns (they are nonbinary and use they/them).

Sylvester Belt (Lithuania) and Gåte (Norway) have both spoken up about how it was not as fun as it is made to look. Sylvester even went as far as to call it traumatic and Gåte nearly withdrew.

The general consensus is that many artists this year felt like they were put in this political position because the EBU allowed Israel to compete, which is completely unreasonable because that is not their job and the opposite of what the EBU claims Eurovision is about.

Now the elephant in the room: I think Joost should have been punished for what he did and considering we don't know what happened, we can't confidently say his disqualification was an inappropriate punishment. You lot would have reacted very differently if he wasn't a crowd favourite and it was, say, Dons from Lithuania who did it and got disqualified. (I'm just trying to make a point don't read too much into it)

Putting aside how the disrespect towards his boundaries from the EBU could have been a direct trigger for Joost's actions, by taking so long to respond they did irreperable damage to his reputation. They allowed rumours to brew and now there are hundreds if not thousands of people convinced he beat a woman and using it as a weapon against him.

I am so glad the EBU is finally being criticized, I have not even TOUCHED how their apolitical stance seems to exist out of only political moves. Disallowing certain songs is understandable, banning flags and censoring artists and audience and editing applause over boos is manipulative and to an extent propaganda. That is everything but apolitical.

Several delegations and even the European Commision have been confirmed to want a few words with the EBU and I hope they will finally change for the better.

[schildpadkneus]

Even the European Commission is frustrated with the EBU now because they banned the flag of the European Union (🇪🇺). The European Commission argues the ban is a "gift to enemies of Europe."

Banning flags in an effort to be apolitical is ironically one of the most political things you could do. It is also asking for trouble with whatever nation/union/community it stands for, this is probably one of the dumbest things they could have possibly done.

Eurovision was started to encourage unity and peace in post-WWII Europe. Both hilariously ironic and incredibly sad to see this is how it turned out.

[schildpadkneus]

More details are getting revealed!

After the action, Joost immediately started apologizing to the woman.

She somehow did get hurt (cut?) because of Joost's action and needed care for it.

Since there is a lot of misinformation when it comes to the "incident" that got Joost Klein disqualified I figured I'd put a post out with information from actual news outlets and not speculations from social media users.

If you are too lazy to read everything, here's a summary of everything I've been able to find:

After his performance in the semi finale, Joost was filmed despite agreements he wouldn't be.

The camera woman did not listen when he asked her to stop several times.

Joost got angry and made the camera woman in question feel so threatened the police was called on Joost.

Despite what fans think, it was confirmed by Dutch commentator Cornald Maas that the Israeli act and their delegation were not involved. I understand the frustration with their participation and I ranted about their disgusting behaviour at Eurovision here, but they were not involved with this incident.

He did not hit or even touch the woman involved.

Nor did she make any remarks about his parents.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

Continue to read for more details.

Edited only for later addition (as indicated) and slightly changed the wording because I was rambling in the initial post.

According to Avrotros (the Dutch broadcaster of Eurovision), Joost had made a threatening motion towards the woman.

According to the Swedish Aftonbladet, multiple witnesses say he behaved very aggressively and damaged/broke(?) the camera.

The rest of this will be speculating. Hopefully as unbiased as possible.

Based on other interviews and discussions about the incident in Dutch media, it sounds like Joost was probably just very overwhelmed. It is reasonable to think the artists are under a lot of pressure to perform well, and it's fair to conclude the controversy of Israel's participation has only added to artists' frustration and the pressure. Add the whole aspect of this being Joost's childhood dream and the passing of his parents and the fact he had already complained about the many many rules of eurovision and you get this explosion of emotions and frustrations. Apparently he also gets very emotional during the outro, and I imagine such a performance does come with loads of adrenaline.

Considering that nice little cocktail of stress, frustrations, emotions and adrenaline, it is likely he just snapped. He was already on the edge, and then the employee filmed him when he didn't want to be filmed and didn't back off when he asked her to, so he did something stupid and irrational.

That is a human response, I don't think he's a bad person for that, I just think he did something stupid in the heat of the moment. If it was something really bad he would've been arrested and locked up, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. That does not mean he should go unpunished, however.

Whatever he did, he made this photographer/camera woman (sources alternate between which one it was) feel so threatened the police got involved. I trust this judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I do think she should have stopped filming when she was asked, but we don't know the full story here. She could have misunderstood the situation, maybe she was unaware of the agreement she should not have been filming him, maybe it was just a stupid mistake.

Regardless of what truly happened, I hope we can all agree both were in the wrong but both have also been punished enough now.

The employee in question should not have been filming in the first place and stopped when asked.

Joost should not have done whatever it was he did.

For the love of god, please stop meddling in situations we know virtually nothing about and definitely stop taking sides. It is never ok to wish horrible things upon anyone.

We don't know what happened and chances are we will never fully know. We don't even know any of these people, we don't know what they are like, we only have little bits and pieces.

I also really want to know but it's not that difficult to just shut up and not say anything in favour of or against anyone until we have more details. You can condemn people for their actions but not when we don't even know what those actions were.

They both should have been punished and they both were.

A bunch of you should have been punished for the vile things I've seen you spout about Joost or this poor woman.

Basic fucking decency and common sense is not that difficult.

Later addition: (I've calmed down a bit)

I posted this about an hour ago but I want to add I do support Joost and feel bad for him but if it is true he punched and broke a camera it disqualification was not an unreasonable punishment. The awful rumours were just an unnecessary kick in the stomach.

If it turns out he did not damage the camera I will happily eat my words.

It is a pity he did not perform in the grand finale considering the huge potential it had but we can't excuse that behaviour. I hope he learns from this situation enough to prevent himself from getting in more trouble.

This does not mean I support the ebu btw <3 fuck the ebu

[schildpadkneus]

TELL. THEM.

[schildpadkneus]

I have found new details on the situation, but keep in mind we are still unsure of the full truth.

Joost was already kind of bumping with Eurovision because of the many rules & obligations that come with competing in Eurovision. He does not have a label and is in full control of his own music and career, so I imagine all of a sudden not being in control anymore would have contributed to his outburst.

There is talk it was not a camera but a phone he was filmed with. That makes it either much worse or much less worse depending on what happened.

Joost is back in the Netherlands but is keeping a low profile as of right now.

Since there is a lot of misinformation when it comes to the "incident" that got Joost Klein disqualified I figured I'd put a post out with information from actual news outlets and not speculations from social media users.

If you are too lazy to read everything, here's a summary of everything I've been able to find:

After his performance in the semi finale, Joost was filmed despite agreements he wouldn't be.

The camera woman did not listen when he asked her to stop several times.

Joost got angry and made the camera woman in question feel so threatened the police was called on Joost.

Despite what fans think, it was confirmed by Dutch commentator Cornald Maas that the Israeli act and their delegation were not involved. I understand the frustration with their participation and I ranted about their disgusting behaviour at Eurovision here, but they were not involved with this incident.

He did not hit or even touch the woman involved.

Nor did she make any remarks about his parents.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

Continue to read for more details.

Edited only for later addition (as indicated) and slightly changed the wording because I was rambling in the initial post.

According to Avrotros (the Dutch broadcaster of Eurovision), Joost had made a threatening motion towards the woman.

According to the Swedish Aftonbladet, multiple witnesses say he behaved very aggressively and damaged/broke(?) the camera.

The rest of this will be speculating. Hopefully as unbiased as possible.

Based on other interviews and discussions about the incident in Dutch media, it sounds like Joost was probably just very overwhelmed. It is reasonable to think the artists are under a lot of pressure to perform well, and it's fair to conclude the controversy of Israel's participation has only added to artists' frustration and the pressure. Add the whole aspect of this being Joost's childhood dream and the passing of his parents and the fact he had already complained about the many many rules of eurovision and you get this explosion of emotions and frustrations. Apparently he also gets very emotional during the outro, and I imagine such a performance does come with loads of adrenaline.

Considering that nice little cocktail of stress, frustrations, emotions and adrenaline, it is likely he just snapped. He was already on the edge, and then the employee filmed him when he didn't want to be filmed and didn't back off when he asked her to, so he did something stupid and irrational.

That is a human response, I don't think he's a bad person for that, I just think he did something stupid in the heat of the moment. If it was something really bad he would've been arrested and locked up, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. That does not mean he should go unpunished, however.

Whatever he did, he made this photographer/camera woman (sources alternate between which one it was) feel so threatened the police got involved. I trust this judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I do think she should have stopped filming when she was asked, but we don't know the full story here. She could have misunderstood the situation, maybe she was unaware of the agreement she should not have been filming him, maybe it was just a stupid mistake.

Regardless of what truly happened, I hope we can all agree both were in the wrong but both have also been punished enough now.

The employee in question should not have been filming in the first place and stopped when asked.

Joost should not have done whatever it was he did.

For the love of god, please stop meddling in situations we know virtually nothing about and definitely stop taking sides. It is never ok to wish horrible things upon anyone.

We don't know what happened and chances are we will never fully know. We don't even know any of these people, we don't know what they are like, we only have little bits and pieces.

I also really want to know but it's not that difficult to just shut up and not say anything in favour of or against anyone until we have more details. You can condemn people for their actions but not when we don't even know what those actions were.

They both should have been punished and they both were.

A bunch of you should have been punished for the vile things I've seen you spout about Joost or this poor woman.

Basic fucking decency and common sense is not that difficult.

Later addition: (I've calmed down a bit)

I posted this about an hour ago but I want to add I do support Joost and feel bad for him but if it is true he punched and broke a camera it disqualification was not an unreasonable punishment. The awful rumours were just an unnecessary kick in the stomach.

If it turns out he did not damage the camera I will happily eat my words.

It is a pity he did not perform in the grand finale considering the huge potential it had but we can't excuse that behaviour. I hope he learns from this situation enough to prevent himself from getting in more trouble.

This does not mean I support the ebu btw <3 fuck the ebu

[schildpadkneus]

I accidentally wrote it to make it look like Kan is a person, not an entire broadcast network🤦‍♀️ thank you for pointing it out

I have a lot to say about Eurovision this year and not in a happy way.

Regardless of your political stances on Palestine-Israel, the behaviour of the Israeli delegation and press was absolutely disgusting.

There are several reports of the delegation filming and taking pictures of contestants without their consent.

I have also seen videos I am unfortunately unable to find as of right now of Bambie Thug (the Irish entry) being filmed without their consent.

An example is Joost Klein (Dutch entry) (seperate from the "incident" that got him disqualified as confirmed by Cornald Maas, member of Dutch delegation), who was filmed without consent by Keren Peles, who wrote the Israeli entry and was a member of their delegation. Peles put the video on her Instagram story, branded him as anti-semitic and seemed to try and provoke him by asking why he was not on stage. (Source: her instagram stories, @IsrBreaksRules on X)

This was such an issue that Nemo (Switzerland), Bambie Thug (Ireland) and Marina Satti (Greece) refused to walk in the rehearsals for the flag parade and Bambie missed their dress rehearsals entirely in an effort to get the EBU to take it seriously. (Source: Bambie Thug's instagram stories of 11 May 2024)

Kan (part of Israeli delegation) broke the rules of conduct, this was confirmed by the ebu. He spoke about Bambie Thug in such a disrespectful way (purposely using incorrect pronouns, calling them a monster) that they filed several complaints. (Source: Bambie Thug instagram stories)

Spanish journalist Juan Ma was intimidated and harrased by Israeli journalists over his pro-Palestine stance and stated he had never felt so unsafe at Eurovision after attending for 11 YEARS (Source: @juanmafdez on X). It was bad enough for the Spanish delegation to go to the EBU directly and not just complain about the incident but demand better enforced safety for press and freedom of speech. (Source: @rtve_com on X)

Even if you are on Israel's side in the Israel-Palestine war, you cannot deny this is disgusting, unprofessional and above all unacceptable behaviour. It is not anti-semitic to call that out and it is ridiculous the EBU has done so little to protect the artists and press from this poor excuse of whatever they were trying to do.

[schildpadkneus]

Since there is a lot of misinformation when it comes to the "incident" that got Joost Klein disqualified I figured I'd put a post out with information from actual news outlets and not speculations from social media users.

If you are too lazy to read everything, here's a summary of everything I've been able to find:

After his performance in the semi finale, Joost was filmed despite agreements he wouldn't be.

The camera woman did not listen when he asked her to stop several times.

Joost got angry and made the camera woman in question feel so threatened the police was called on Joost.

Despite what fans think, it was confirmed by Dutch commentator Cornald Maas that the Israeli act and their delegation were not involved. I understand the frustration with their participation and I ranted about their disgusting behaviour at Eurovision here, but they were not involved with this incident.

He did not hit or even touch the woman involved.

Nor did she make any remarks about his parents.

STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

Continue to read for more details.

Edited only for later addition (as indicated) and slightly changed the wording because I was rambling in the initial post.

According to Avrotros (the Dutch broadcaster of Eurovision), Joost had made a threatening motion towards the woman.

According to the Swedish Aftonbladet, multiple witnesses say he behaved very aggressively and damaged/broke(?) the camera.

The rest of this will be speculating. Hopefully as unbiased as possible.

Based on other interviews and discussions about the incident in Dutch media, it sounds like Joost was probably just very overwhelmed. It is reasonable to think the artists are under a lot of pressure to perform well, and it's fair to conclude the controversy of Israel's participation has only added to artists' frustration and the pressure. Add the whole aspect of this being Joost's childhood dream and the passing of his parents and the fact he had already complained about the many many rules of eurovision and you get this explosion of emotions and frustrations. Apparently he also gets very emotional during the outro, and I imagine such a performance does come with loads of adrenaline.

Considering that nice little cocktail of stress, frustrations, emotions and adrenaline, it is likely he just snapped. He was already on the edge, and then the employee filmed him when he didn't want to be filmed and didn't back off when he asked her to, so he did something stupid and irrational.

That is a human response, I don't think he's a bad person for that, I just think he did something stupid in the heat of the moment. If it was something really bad he would've been arrested and locked up, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. That does not mean he should go unpunished, however.

Whatever he did, he made this photographer/camera woman (sources alternate between which one it was) feel so threatened the police got involved. I trust this judgement.

Don't get me wrong, I do think she should have stopped filming when she was asked, but we don't know the full story here. She could have misunderstood the situation, maybe she was unaware of the agreement she should not have been filming him, maybe it was just a stupid mistake.

Regardless of what truly happened, I hope we can all agree both were in the wrong but both have also been punished enough now.

The employee in question should not have been filming in the first place and stopped when asked.

Joost should not have done whatever it was he did.

For the love of god, please stop meddling in situations we know virtually nothing about and definitely stop taking sides. It is never ok to wish horrible things upon anyone.

We don't know what happened and chances are we will never fully know. We don't even know any of these people, we don't know what they are like, we only have little bits and pieces.

I also really want to know but it's not that difficult to just shut up and not say anything in favour of or against anyone until we have more details. You can condemn people for their actions but not when we don't even know what those actions were.

They both should have been punished and they both were.

A bunch of you should have been punished for the vile things I've seen you spout about Joost or this poor woman.

Basic fucking decency and common sense is not that difficult.

Later addition: (I've calmed down a bit)

I posted this about an hour ago but I want to add I do support Joost and feel bad for him but if it is true he punched and broke a camera it disqualification was not an unreasonable punishment. The awful rumours were just an unnecessary kick in the stomach.

If it turns out he did not damage the camera I will happily eat my words.

It is a pity he did not perform in the grand finale considering the huge potential it had but we can't excuse that behaviour. I hope he learns from this situation enough to prevent himself from getting in more trouble.

This does not mean I support the ebu btw <3 fuck the ebu