stopao3csam

[stopao3csam]

in which countries is ao3 banned for csam/csem?

I'm not gonna lie that there couldn't be other biases as well, but Russia explicitly mentioned CSEM when they banned it, and China banned it due to RPF of actors being viewed as a violation of consent.

[stopao3csam]

https://www.tumblr.com/stopao3csam/772607067537244160/ao3-does-not-contain-csem-because-it-is-written?source=share

This is just slippery slope fallacy and pinning blame on people on the internet for irresponsible parents not controlling what their children see on their phones���🤡🤡

Can you explain to me how people writing erotica of real, identifiable children isn't just public pedophilic fantasizing? Do you seriously think the families are at fault in this scenario? That oh, if their children were famous, they wouldn't be lusted after? Great, sure, blame anyone but the actual pedophiles, right? You realize when those children grow up, they will see it? Do you think they're at fault, then, too?

[stopao3csam]

are u actually stupid or? do u know there are actual children actually being raped and ur choosing to go after a platform which is LEGALLY COMPLICIT? do u not think in the years and years that ao3 has been up that if it actually genuinely broke any laws it would've been taken down by now?

Do you think everything legal is moral and right. Slavery is legal in tens of countries. Even the United States explicitly has legal slavery with prison labor.

[stopao3csam]

AO3 does not contain CSEM because it is written words and is not visual or even photorealistic. It is legally not CSEM. There are no real children being involved with pixels on a screen making up letters. You don't have to like it, and many don't, but it is not against the law.

Things do not have to be illegal to be immoral, incredibly so. Why is it harmful to draw photorealistic CSAM? Because the child can find it and be harmed by it. Just because fanfiction of real life children is not considered CSAM in the literal legal definition (with exceptions if it's being directly sent to the child in question), it has the same potential to cause harm.

[stopao3csam]

Dumbass.

sorry one more ask before I go to bed. is this about children being unable to consent or is it something else

[stopao3csam]

Heading to bed now, hopefully when I wake my post will have 10 billion notes and where AO3 as we knew it was, there will be only fanfics about obscure short films from the 60s.

[stopao3csam]

Apparently instagram is notorious for actual child abuse being allowed too, there isn't even an option to report child abuse on the reels

As much as Twitter is a tar pit of a platform these days, I'm so fucking glad it lets you report people for bestiality and defending CSA. Seriously, why don't most social media sites let you report the most popular sex crimes?

[stopao3csam]

First gore ask! I know I said I would publish all asks but I think that will be an exception 😃

[stopao3csam]

it would also be worth getting sources I think for the stuff you find because it would be good for people to read it themselves I think

I linked the bearsys_ tweet, which I do think is the most revealing part of it all, but here's some other sources.

In terms of Underage RPF on AO3, a good example I can think of is how out of 282,577 fics in the Video Blogging RPF tag, 3,428 are tagged Underage Sex. That seems small, being 1.2%. Even then, let's assume that two thirds of them are about people imagining grown adults (EG. Markiplier) as kids. Still very weird IMO, but hey, at least a current child is not being harmed. That would still leave 1,142 fics about current children.

In regards to photorealistic art of children being considered CSEM, The United Kingdom Coroners and Justice Act 2009, sections 62-68 makes it a criminal offense to be in possession of “prohibited images” of children. This includes drawings of identifiable children. (It also includes cartoon characters, but those cases never seem to go far) I mistakenly said this was a US law, but I believe they have something similar.

[stopao3csam]

If I stumbled across that when I was an internet child I think I would have been traumatised by it. Having a fic with your name and details about you, portrayed that way, it would feel like a threat and make me feel very unsafe The cartoon porn I found as a kid wasn't traumatic for me, just a bit gross in hindsight, though I think there is no problem with any R34 of fiction existing freely, taboo or not, now that I am an adult. Yet I wouldn't want stuff up like that about me even now, let alone when I was a child. I think this is a good idea, but you will need a solid plan.

Thank you, I'm glad I'm getting more people to talk about it.

[stopao3csam]

https://www.tumblr.com/stopao3csem/772561037099745281/and-is-there-proof-that-ao3-doesnt-remove-them?source=share

Yeah I was being genuine as my ao3 use is light and I stick to my fandom so I don't know much about the situation, so thank you for the breakdown

Of course! Assuming in good faith wins again

[stopao3csam]

I am curious about the amount of asks I'm getting considering (at least on my end) the original post still only has 1 note, and it's a reply from me. Where are y'all coming from

[stopao3csam]

And is there proof that AO3 doesn't remove them?

I'm going to assume you're being genuine and not purposefully obtuse.

Selecting three fandoms in the RPF category with a high number of fics:

山河令 | Word of Honor (TV 2021) RPF has 2,504 fics, 36 of which are tagged as Underage Sex. The earliest fic was posted on March 21, 2015

Sports RPF has 125,140 fics, 2,304 of which were tagged as Underage Sex. The earliest fic was posted on March 12, 2009

Video Blogging RPF has 282,577 fics, 3,428 of which are tagged as Underage Sex. The earliest fic was posted on December 6, 2012

Again, given that a volunteer wrote about a minor being raped and wasn't fired until they posted about being pro-Palestine, I really doubt they care!

[stopao3csam]

https://www.tumblr.com/stopao3csem/772558659386572800/isnt-it-possible-to-report-these-fics-to-relevant?source=share

It might be worth finding out for sure, because if its a solution a petition isn't needed right?

I've looked into it further, and no, it seems the only text-based items that can be legally classified as CSEM include sexts with the child in question.

The closest thing I can find on the CyberTipline is "Unwanted sexual emails or texts either involving children or sent to a child", but again, this seems like it would have to be sent by the child in question or someone directly involved.

Regardless, reporting individual fics (I would have loved to do an exact count of how many fall under the category of Underage RPF, to get a scope, but there are hundreds of fandoms in the RPF category and taking the time to sort each one would take hours) is a Herculean endeavor (and while I do believe this is a serious issue, I don't want to clog the tipline where physical cases of CSA should take priority) whereas AO3 itself making the change to just not let any fandom categorized as RPF also be tagged with Underage Sex would be much easier.

(Though I doubt they will seriously consider it unless there's major pushback; it took a decade for the Underage tag to be changed to Underage Sex. What was up with that, by the way.)

[stopao3csam]

God

As a shotacon, I fucking DESPISE NSFW RPF written about real minors

My interests are purely within fictional characters, depicting Kagamine Len in a sexual light is not at all comparable to depicting a real minor that way

I get that AO3 is an archive, but NSFW content about real people who cannot consent to that material being written about them should not be archived

Posted without comment.

[stopao3csam]

Isn't it possible to report these fics to relevant channels for CSEM?

I don't think so, unfortunately. I'm glad that art that's photorealistic is illegal, at least (again, in the US), but I do wish all mediums that portray an identifiable real child in a sexual way would receive the same treatment.

[stopao3csam]

Petition/Interest Check to Purge Underage RPF on AO3

Apologies if there are typoes on this post. if you would like me to clarify anything via DM, ask, or reply I am more than happy to. This topic is very important to me. I will publish all asks.

Claim

When people claim the Archive of our Own (AO3) hosts CSE/AM (Child Exploitative/Abusive Material) they typically are, or people assume they are, talking about underage fics of fictional characters. Whether or not you believe these fics are immoral is irrelevant to the topic that the Archive of our Own hosts thousands of works of real life (RPF) children under the tag Underage Sex.

At best, these are publicized pedophilic fantasies of real children. At worst, it is CSAM.

Classifying CSAM

When most people think of CSAM, the most obvious examples are photographs and videos of child sexual abuse. And yes, this is the most glaring and important to tackle part of CSAM. However, photorealistic images meant to resemble children, at least in the United States, are classified as CSEM.

CSEM is bad because a child is, in a word, being sexually exploited. Child celebrities are frequently exploited by their employers, parents, and yes, fans. (John Hickley Jr. was inspired to assassinate Reagan due to his pedophilic obsession with Jodie Foster, he is not a man to be praised)

When you are famous, it is impossible to avoid what people are saying about you. To say that child actors should just "look away" from the people who publicly post rape fantasies about them is victim blaming, plain and simple.

Consent and RPF

Even with adults, RPF is a highly contested topic, with some celebrities giving explicit consent and others expressing explicit discomfort. This is irrelevant to this topic. As I hope everyone reading this can agree, children cannot consent. A very, very common argument I hear in response to defending Underage RPF is that the authors could possibly be minors themselves. This is ignoring the fact that,

It is very unlikely that those writing RPF tagged "Extreme Underage" (Read: Toddlers and Elementary schoolers) are that age

Though, yes, many people just lie, AO3 asks to confirm you're an adult before opening any explicit work. One would expect the same rules to apply to authors.

Writing private fantasies is different than sharing them to a public platform where anyone, including adults, can read them.

Children-on-children sexual abuse has its own term, COCSA. Being a minor does not mean you are incapable of committing CSA. It is no more justifiable, and a child is still harmed.

AO3's complicity

On November 25, 2023, X (Formerly Twitter) user bearsys_ published a tweet saying that they were let go as a volunteer for AO3 due to having "From the river to the sea" as their status.

This was considered a violation, and not the fact that bearsys_'s AO3 account, bryophyte, had earlier published RPF of an at the time 17 year old (de-aged to be a toddler) being raped by his deceased best friend.

This should speak louder than anything.

The simple fact that the Archive of Our Own allows fics to be tagged as both RPF and Underage is incredibly telling. If you are writing erotica about real, breathing children, you are a pedophile, or catering to pedophiles on the site. There is no excuse. And to pro-paras who defend this: you are not "anti-contact" if you are lusting after children on a platform they can access.

I would really appreciate more people talking about this. This is not a shipping debate. This is not a fandom debate. This is the largest fanfiction platform defending written CSAM because they know if they ban it, they will lose support.

I want people to be outspoken about this. So many times I see people claim to "not care about AO3 drama", because they care about real children and not fictional ones. So speak up about this. Because these are real children.