#''bridget being trans is a retcon''

[werewolf-cuddles]

okay first you bend over the woke mob and say bridget is a transwoman and now you're saying gwen is trans? come on man what happened to you? you're slowly becoming an sjw

Acknowledging that trans people exist is "becoming an SJW"?

lmao, sure buddy

[magentacat]

Can we talk about Bridget being trans and it wasn't a subtext thing?

Like, each time a franchise thing (games, animation, etcétera) goes to reveal a long standing character to be trans, it's either buried in subtext, or retcon.

But Bridget's gender identity has been a discussion theme for Guilty Gear since a while ago, and her coming to terms with her gender identity does feel like a culmination for her character.

What I'm saying is that this is totally an epic poggers moment.

[austismo-posting]

This is really old discorse by now but saw some stuff on twitter and got me thinking about Bridget being revealed to be trans in strive.

Like the person insisted on how bridget being trans is a retcon and was made to please the west yada yada. And I get how its definetely a shift from the original concept but would Bridget even be able to still look like Bridget without the "retcon"? Like last time we saw Bridget wasnt the whole thing that she left her town to become more manly? If we followed that wouldn't she be a traditionally "manly" guy now, changing the whole reason why bridget was popular and was a representation for gender non conforming people in the first place.

I could see a version of the story where Bridget learns that masculinity isnt how you dress, its your actions/mindset or realising you dont need to be masculine to be a strong man which admitedly I kinda like the idea but then it got me thinking the other usual argument I see against trans Bridget, saying how bridget becoming trans is grooming, like her parents making her dress as a girl because of the whole town taboo thing would have groomed her into becoming trans but I think those people use that as a bad faith argument since I don't think they'd be saying that if bridget still identified as a man but continued with the feminine persona/aesthetic. Following their own logic she would have still been groomed into it.

I personally find the direction they took with bridget a bit more interesting since it creates a new obstacle for Bridget and the direction of her story. Since she did so much to show the town taboo was wrong but now 20 years later (if I recall correctly thats how long has been, either that or 10 years) she realizes shes trans and that alone might erase alot of the work she did back home. I think that opens way more the possibility for new stories with Bridget in future titles than the more conclusive end of story type plot I mentioned before. I see the trans Bridget stuff similar to what happened to Ken in the new street fighter, like they could do something that just re-inforces the original stuff with ken to keep all the traits that people like about Ken, but him getting a divorce changes things up and has more story potential for future entries.

Anyway those were just some thoughts if you didn't like Bridget being trans I'd like to hear your reasonsn as long as it isnt a bad faith argument, I think this type of character discussion is interesting.

[lunarsilkscreen]

Bridget in Guilty Gear

I keep getting asked about her, despite not ever playing Guilty Gear...

The videos never actually look at Bridget from *her* perspective. Only from the outside perspective. What the text says about her.

We must first assume that authors are human filled with biases that betray their intent. Second; we must assume that characters and lore are only filled "as much as necessary" so that retcons don't happen because of the unfilled spaces.

Third we must look at the femboy->trans woman timeline.... (Mostly a joke)

"In the beginning Bridget is born a Boy and because of superstition; she was raised as a girl." This assumes that nobody ever figured out that Bridget wasn't a biological boy. Not having a period would be the most obvious marker.

Daisuke Ishiwatari has stated "I wanted to make a cute character that was a boy." But obviously, the character had further gotten a mind of her own. Because just as Bridget is trans woman later; she could have just as easily been lying that she was a boy. The line "I'm really a man" being a joke entirely.

After Bridget comes to terms with her life potentially being a lie later; and accepting "it's ok for her to be boy" only realizing; it wasn't the social stigma keeping her as a female character.

She was using it as an excuse so that she had a reason to go against typical societal gender norms. Which is how a trans girl would act.

Femboys, on the other hand, do it in spite of societal norms:

"YOU CANT TELL ME WHAT TO BE".

They act... More like boys TBH. (Non-gendered masculine)

And if she weren't a trans girl; there's just as much a chance that she rebels against the girl-narrative entirely at puberty.

What this reveals in the fandom, however, is a large amount of the fanbase being gender-queer; and feeling overlooked by the creators for "enforcing the gender norm".

Ironic that there's only one gender-queer character in the entire game...

[theliterarywolf]

I'm more of a casual Guilty Gear fan, so admittedly I'm unsure if I'm correct, but wasn't Bridget's backstory that the parents forced the character to pretend to be a woman because of... something I can't remember rn and that Bridget is essentially just a GNC man who has to pretend to be a woman but otherwise asserts themselves as a man whenever they can? So why are people claiming that Bridget is a GREAT choice for being retconned into a trans woman? Isn't it literally the most transphobic thing? "Man pretends to be a woman" "if your child is nonconforming they will become trans so don't let your boys wear anything feminine lest they become those awful tr*nnies"?

Yeah, that's also the thing because even if you ignore the elephant in the room of 'just because someone is GNC doesn't automatically mean they're trans and if you insist otherwise, you're just reinforcing the gender-binary', you still end up with the 'the background of the character in question probably isn't the best ground to base a trans character on and can actually reinforce negative stereotypes'.

The last batch of asks I answer on the matter today are probably going to be the last I answer until the DLC comes out proper because for every 'hey, there's issues with this' or 'seems kind of fucky-wucky that, localizer-error or authorial cadence, this is another case of a GNC guy having to be trans' I end up getting asks of 'Um, you guys are wrong and you should feel bad'.

[overfedvenison]

There are a lot of otokonoko-themed things that have never been translated. The movement is niche, and small, and constantly overshadowed by mainstream trans discussion. But other ways to express gender identity are valid and important. The things we see - the traps, the femboys, the anime crossdressers - those are echos of an actual subculture that goes back many years, explored through a western lens through mere drops of water from it’s source. And, I think we should appreciate that, celebrate it, and explore it’s actual meaning and history. But we don’t; we don’t even really use a real word for this whole thing. The news of the Bridget thing has distressed me greatly. They were the face of that type of character. And now, this character is trans; and that may have been fine, but there’s an implication there obvious to all those the character influenced, saying loudly that this kind of identity is outdated. If you see people freaking out about this all, I think the proponents of this change assume this is transphobia, and an inability to accept a trans character simply because they are trans. It’s not; it is a deep mourning for the erosion of a unique and important take on gender. One that was deeply influential to anime culture and which allowed so many people to discover themselves. And so, when a character like that get changed? That feels like it is conforming to a trans identity not because it makes sense, and not because it is a logical continuation of the character, but because it is more normative. It feels like it is saying, “The identities that formed you are outdated and unneeded, and so you should give them up” The people that love Bridget... They love crossdressing. They love spaces where you can express and play with your gender presentation. They cultivate communities that support that. Is that so transphobic, merely because they explore these same themes in a different manner than the norm? To the people who associate with this perspective, this is not a character being retconned into being trans, but a betrayal of their very identity and the lessons they took from their formative years that allowed them to accept others. I had hoped that one day, we would become accepting enough to start legitimately translating these works. For it to be looked at favourably, and treated with the importance it has. For these outlooks to expand out minds about the possibilities of what we could be - beyond the takes on it that appear three stages down. I’m sure those of you who have followed me for a long time know I am outspoken on this, and have talked about the merits of this alternative way to explore gender identity in a safe way. I try my best not to associate with any movement, really. And I am more trans now, than I am an otokonoko, for certain. But I cannot lie, and say that this does not hurt me to see happen. But the real otokonoko series; the things beyond treating it as a fun quirk, like this fighting game has... It’s rare to be able to read them. Most languish in obscurity. And I fear at this rate, they always will. I’m mostly just getting my thoughts out, and I have a lot of them. But I hope that, someday, we can move into a future where we can accept that characters like this can exist and have their own merits.

[chaifootsteps]

I’m not trans. I mean, I am coming to terms with myself being she/ they genderfluid, but I know that everybody’s experience if different. I just know that being trans both is and isn’t a choice. A person doesn’t choose to be born in the wrong body, but they do choose to transition.

I didn’t know who Bridget was before you pointed out and it made me realize three other character who are in the same boat.

Peter Baker from sleep away camp, who was forced to live as Angela by his insane aunt because she wanted a daughter, and, as you do, he goes insane and starts killing people.

Eli from Let The Right One In is a boy named Elias who was castrated when he was turned into a vampire over 200 years ago. He dresses in female clothing and is perceived by outsiders as a young girl. He literally had his weewee chopped off and dresses like a girl because its easier to lure prey, which can be considered as transphobic in itself, but hey, kid is just hungry.

Lastly, we have Tippetarius from the OZ book series, who was born Princess Ozma, but was turned into a boy by an evil witch and raised as Tip. When reveled to be the Princess Ozma, Tip literally BEGGS to stay a boy, but the stupid adults decide for him.

Thus I have dubbed this trope the OZMA problem.

If anything, these characters have more in common with trans men who are forced to present themselves as female by society.

You took the words out of my mouth. And every single time, without fail, you get someone arguing that oh, we can’t have characters like this, it’s good to retcon characters like this into having been trans all along because otherwise it makes transitioning out to be a bad thing, and I will never, even if I live to be 200, understand that line of thinking.

Being forced to present as a gender that you don’t feel is the one you should have is a bad thing.

[0wllight]

proposed this in discord btw but hear me out:

now that we have trans girl bridget and nonbinary testament we need a trans guy.

and i nominate venom for the position. they can retcon him currently being cisgender and you know daisuke can be like!!!! "oops!!! he had top surgery scars the entire time you know i just forgot to draw them lol you know memory hasn't been the best over the years let me just draw them now"

and its hype af as like they drop like the png of his new updated art where HE HAS SHIRT OPEN TITS OUT BAKER OUTFIT AND U CAN SEE THE TOP SURGERY SCARS IN HD FRESH PNG QUALITY!!!! and then they're like "btw guys!!! the pic we just dropped was his appearance in strive, now let us show you his announcement trailer" and they drop the trailer and he looks sexy and hot in the gameplay and everyone goes fucking WILD at the announcement!!

foolproof plan am i right or am i right

[socialjusticefail]

I received the following from an anon submission:

The issue with Bridget is that Bridget is literally someone who was assigned female at birth for religious reasons, because Bridget's home village thought having twins of the same sex was a curse, and, if Bridget was assigned male at birth (Bridget was always biologically male), then it would have lead to the villagers actually killing one of twins. Bridget was born into, raised as, pressured into, and was treated socially as female for all of this character's life to keep Bridget safe from the other villagers.

The closest thing I can compare it to would be an intersex woman discovering that she's intersex and has male anatomy after being lead to believe all of her life that she was a normal female, with some religious baggage and threats of violence if her male biology is ever found out thrown on top for good measure. I know it is not a perfect comparison, but it's the best that I have.

Some fans learn of Bridget's male body, see that this character identifies as female, and assume that the character is a transwoman. Bridget would have clearly been a transwoman, had Bridget been AMAB. The character was always legally and socially a woman since birth (hence why Bridget's name is Bridget in the first place - Bridget is AFAB), however, which means that AFAB Bridget "transitioned" into her assigned birth sex rather than away from it, which would make Bridget cisgender, not trans. Bridget is now a AFAB female.

It is, regardless, a messy situation for sure. It doesn't help that Bridget was a gender non-conforming male for many in-real-life years before suddenly being female again seemingly out of the blue for most fans. A lot of fans see this change as a retcon. Other fans accuse the villagers of Bridget's hometown for grooming Bridget because of the whole "was legally, socially, and pressured into being female despite being biologically male" part.

If you want to looking into for yourself, Bridget is from the Guilty Gear series.

This is interesting.

[gear-project]

I just read something from the English Actress of Bridget (Kelly Ohanian) that pretty much seals Bridget’s fate. Talking about bringing Bridget to life and also that the gender wouldn’t be ambiguous or unstated to make sure the right actors are being hired. Basically if anything, what she says kinda is the biggest explicit hint we’re ever going to get, Bridget is a Trans woman now and there isn’t anything to change that. (If ArcSys didn’t want Kelly to say that, they could’ve forced a retraction or made their own statement, but didn’t).

It does not change the fact that a lot of aspects of Bridget as a character were retconned.

ARC System Works has never done much in the way of acknowledging their own retcons (and inconsistencies), or even insisting a character has to be a certain way (or even refuting other public statements on how people feel of the characters involved).

The only thing they've done is be somewhat restrictive about allowing certain media (music/SFX) they release to be shared on sites like YouTube or Twitch (and mostly only early on in a game's release cycle).

English Dub statements on the characters involved in the series don't always reflect the statements of Japanese or Korean Dub Actors (or corroborate with them). There have also been some controversial decisions made involving English Dub voice actors in the past (like the change in Ramlethal's voice actor from Xrd to Strive for arbitrary Ethnic reasons, which is inconsistent with Ramlethal's relationship with her sister Elphelt).

And it still doesn't change the fact Arcade Mode is Gaiden by definition (with multiple ending routes), not linear canon as is generally accepted.

But even if this is later canonized, it is still considered a retcon, so please bear that in mind.

As I stated earlier, they changed Bridget to be more acceptible to modern broader tastes, so that would be the main reason for the change… but nonetheless it IS a change.

All I'm doing as a Historian is pointing that out and making a note of it for consistencies' sake.

[werewolf-cuddles]

Something to clarify about the whole "Bridget's dialogue doesn't show up in an imperfect run": this isn't a new thing for Guilty Gear, there's usually a different boss and dialogue if you do it perfect. For years, people have agreed that neither is a "bad ending" and both can be canon. But all of a sudden when it's Bridget people are waging war over canonicity. I agree with you, this kind of argument is just a real annoying thing to open the internet to

Honestly, it mostly comes down to Bridget being one of the most iconic video game femboys, and having them finally come back after years of being absent from the series, but now seemingly retconned to be trans, during a period where it feels like this type of character isn't allowed to exist anymore, has rubbed people the wrong way.

It was only a few months ago that Seven Seas had to apologize after their translation of a crossdressing manga changed one of the leads into a trans girl.

But even before then, people have always vehemently argued against the idea of femboy characters (or "traps" as they're commonly called in weeb circles, which doesn't mean trans people FYI) being anything other than trans girls who just weren't called that. The discourse around Chihiro from Danganronpa being one of the most obvious examples.

[chaifootsteps]

It's shocking for me how people are celebrating Bridget being trans when her situation is literally "trans people get groomed into being trans" stereotype. And people that speak up about how shitty this rep is are getting bullied by everyone too. Like omfg those mfs will eat any rep up even if it's the worst one

They really will and it's horrifying. I've lived through the retcon of IDW Arcee, I've lived through Peter from Sleepaway Camp discourse, I've seen so many "trans" characters that were forced surgically or groomed as kids and were straight out of a terf's wildest, moistest dreams.

Hot top: If your character is presenting as the opposite gender because someone else at some point in their life forced them to, and it's a very big part of their character, they are not and should not be recycled into trans rep the way you'd repurpose an old bus.