#Afo meta

[silentfanmusings]

All for One and Quirk Origin Theory

Okay, so I have some thoughts on 407 and how it recontextualizes the world of BNHA and Quirk history.

According to the latest chapter, not only are AFO and Yoichi twins, but they're also (possibly) the first with Quirks because they're apparently older than the Glowing Baby. Who society (and the readers) have been told since chapter 1, was the first Quirk user. 

Over 400 chapters later that no longer appears to be the case. Although we also have to account for unreliable narration messing with the order of past events, and I don’t think we can know for certain if the twins or the Glowing Baby were born first since the twins likely have no actual records of their existences anywhere.

But if the twins truly are older and possibly even part of quirk society's origin, then I also wonder about some of the other things stated in 407 and how it seems like people older than AFO have Quirks.

“Meta abilities… also started to present…. in young people going through puberty.”

Which means that a variety of people were developing meta abilities all around the same time, which led to chaos in society due to inadequate research into the meta ability phenomenon that has been ongoing since the Glowing Baby was born, since researchers “hypothesized that a novel disease was to blame.”

In 407, we see some adult soldiers talking about meta people and coming across a young AFO in the streets, mentioning that they should avoid him because he might be a carrier of the meta ability “disease”. Which means that many believed in the early days that meta abilities spread through some sort of contact with someone who was a carrier.

This line of thought actually makes me believe that people older than AFO (who’s still a young child) have gained meta abilities, as mentioned a couple pages earlier.

We can even see a very young AFO apparently stealing Quirks from people he’s defeated or killed, who look a fair bit older than he does.

Which indicates that a variety of young people all over have suddenly developed powers with the disease line of thought being the most widely spread bit of information to create a wall between those with meta powers and those without.

It’s very likely that the original mutagen could have spread from All for One, or the mutagen could have been something that affected AFO and Yoichi’s mother who then passed along the mutation to the twins, since she was clearly showing some signs of a minor meta ability that AFO stole from her when he was born.

Whatever mutagen it was altered the DNA of multiple people - many of them either born with their meta ability or developing them as minors before and during puberty; which makes me hypothesize that the earliest people with meta abilities, all in the same generation, gained it through some sort of environmental factor and they weren’t all born with altered genetics.

Some sort of mutagen altered their DNA, triggering the appearances of unique powers and appearances, and Ch 407’s narrator makes it seem like Quirks began with All for One and his brother.

I wonder if any of this will be confirmed, or if we’re going to be left to theorize about the origins of Quirks and AFO’s possible role as one of the earliest people with meta abilities.

[featherstorm2004]

Me realizing the reason AFO is so obsessed with Tenko is because he is the reason Tenko was born, therefore making Tenko his the same way Yoichi was. which explains why he was so adamant with making him just like Yoichi, down to even wanting to be a hero just like his predecessor. Whilst also giving Tenko the same trauma AFO experienced making him a true fusion of the brothers the way AFO always wanted.

[helga-grinduil]

'I love how there’s basically no reason for AFO being the way he is.'

But.

But there is a reason? We were literally shown it in this chapter?

A kid having to survive literally from the moment of it's birth, and somehow not only managing to do exactly that, but also being able to keep his weaker twin alive as well. Having to chew on the corpse of their mother not to starve. Not only no food, no proper clothes, no home, no names, but also no parents, no adults, no socialisation, no protection in the world where people with quirks are feared, hated, and seen as 'infected', no one to properly socialise him or tell him 'no' or explain why he can't have something, no one to teach him what caring or affection is, no anything. Literally just him and his brother together their entire childhood. Taking. Providing. Taking. Killing the danger. Taking. Because you have nothing and no one (except for this one little useless thing you do not really understand why you are keeping alive and taking it with you everywhere, but it's the only your thing you had since your birth and you don't want to be alone).

Y'all really think that Horikoshi would just drop the ball with the themes of storytelling, and AFO wanting to be seen as a character, and the dangers of dehumanisation and the idea that quirks made people 'evil'? That one Tartarus guard who said that villains are not entirely human and more like animals was wrong, but not about this one guy in particualar, I guess! /s

P.S. Yoichi having normal clothes and even shoes while AFO wears a garbage bag. Protruding ribs visible. A hungry baby screaming for a mother’s (corpse’s) comfort, but learning that no one will respond to his cries, so he has to claw and bite and use force.

[snubulous]

Who else had literal feral child AFO on their bingo card? Cause I sure as hell didn’t

[class1akids]

BNHA 423 - Thoughts (aka how to fumble your ending: a masterclass by Kohei Horikoshi)

I won't have time on Sunday, so I'll write up my chapter thoughts today. Probably the last time for this series (unless we get a Todo-family moment in the epilogue).

I've joined this fandom 6 years ago and written countless meta and analysis. I'm grieving today not that the story has come to an end, but the way it fumbled its landing.

Last chapter: Deku after a combo from everyone Rises to everyone shouting Ganbare and All Might Annointing him as HIS personal Jesus Greatest hero

This chapter:

Everyone's aggregate animosity (including 16 members of Class A - missing: Uraraka, Bakugou, Shoto and Aoyama) and the strength Deku added to OFA in 2 years kill AFO-in-Shigaraki's regen (even though he was engineered by Ujiko to be able to hold OFA).

Deku punches the body of that little crying boy he yapped about saving of the big bad and it starts to crumble. So AFO looks for a new host in Deku.

We get to the only good point in this chapter: as Aizawa is yelling for Midoriya, ShiraGiri worries about Tomura. The tragedy of how their lives went in separate ways. The only person on this battlefield who cares about Tomura is Kurogiri

WTF - I'm emotional. This must help bring Tomura back, right?

Let me see! what's happening on the vestige side?

Is Kurogiri dead? Why?

I NEED ANSWERS!!!

Or fuck that - let's get to Bakugou, because why not. Obviously, he's in desperate need of another highlight.

Let's even make sure he gets personally praised in case in the last 5 chapters he was not mentioned we forgot how he's the awesomest. Who cares about Kurogiri dying in the background? Who cares about Aizawa's or Mic's feelings? The most important question is how Bakugou got to the battlefield.

Oh, wait, here comes the twist. Remember that crappy little panel of Shoto in the last chapter? No? Don't worry. Neither does 99% of the fandom, except a few die-hard Shoto-fans.

Well, you see, that crappy panel was actually Shoto being hidden as he lifted up Deku at the end of that long combo to give him his last push. And the one above, is not a BKDK combo but an Origin Trio combo. It's just cropped the same way BKDK shippers always crop Shoto out of any Trio pictures.

Congratulations, Kohei Horikoshi-sensei! What an amazing twist. You managed to write Schroedinger's Origin Trio scene! It happened, but maybe it never did. Thanks for stringing me along all these years through the rollercoaster rides of Origins and Risings. I'll take that playground from you and give it to fanfic writers who actually care about maintaining it.

While Bakugou is yelling in the background, Deku is pulling a Mirio on AFO and calls him friendless. The worst thing that can happen to a Shonen boss.

There is some incomprehensible mumbo jumbo about OFA-magic - but don't worry peeps - it's all a set-up for Deku getting it back (in case you are one of the people who seems really to be worried about that)

And then AFO realizes - due to Deku transferring the last bit just so - that he was just a sad little human who loved his brother all along. Yoichi's lifelong efforts to make an impact on AFO didn't do anything. Only the Jesus-Punch-of-Magic did. Too bad.

Oh no, the whole fucking peanut gallery is back to nobody's surprise. (Actually All Might is missing, which may suggest Deku will only get the stockpile back). Even if Deku gets OFA back, please don't transfer these guys back. I'm so sick of them. They were a total waste of time and took Deku's precious real estate for introspection. Fuck that. I don't actually care. Deku has been damaged beyond repair.

GROUP FIST BUMP!!! Amazing Climax. Maybe a double spread, Sensei?

HK: Sorry, I used up my double spread quota on Bakugou!

I'm not one to criticize Horikoshi's artstyle, but boy, this panel is so underwhelming compared to the stuff he drew in this endgame. Is this your big AFO vs OFA clash????

What happens when Ghost Fist collides with Real blood? Of course, it will transfer all that sweet Ghost-DNA!!!

Aka - Horikoshi is saying - Don't worry, Deku won't be quirkless.

OK. Well. Let's move on.

Here is another line from Horikoshi's outline. Did you want to see a heart-warming scene between Nana and Tenko? Too bad for you. You get Bakugou, you voted for him.

(Btw, Shoto is not the only one who doesn't seem to be allowed to have a proper scene with his mom, I guess Tenko cannot even get an emotional afterlife scene. If you are an abuse-victim in story, Horikoshi says - fuck you! Take a swan dive and hope to be reborn as a bully in your next life).

Well, at least Tomura noticed that Kurogiri mysteriously died after Horikoshi couldn't think up an actual proper endgame for him.

OK, onto the MAIN ANTAGONIST's final monologue. It will be deep after being built for 400 chapters, right?

Shigaraki: Well, I didn't even manage to destroy your hand. I amount to just a crying boy.

Deku: Well, I still hate you for stabbing Kacchan and the others. (forget the others, I never cared about the others). I killed you because I was sick of your moping it's the International Board of Therapist's recommended therapy for victims of abuse and grooming.

Shigaraki: Well, what do I say to that. That's so fucking stupid.

Shigaraki: And to my gay little boyfriend, I leave my treasured Nintendo controller.

Deku: Yeah, whatever. I don't really have any thoughts. I've stopped introspection in Act 2. Your life sucked. You need to fuck off now and stop spreading the sadness, I have a victory punch to perform.

Deku: This is the story of how I became the greatest hero by punching the fuck out of this crying, abused little boy and then bathing myself in his nasty pixie dust. killing 2 main villains for the price of 1 in under 7 pages and changed the weather for the dudebros on Twitter can cry about the blue sky in the anime again. I also eradicated sadness with punching it hard enough.

Also - I probably still have a quirk. Tune in to find out in two weeks.

Sensei, with all due respect - this chapter was ass. Visually, thematically, from a storytelling point of view. Even the good ideas were executed badly or were crammed in with terrible ideas. What a fucking let-down.

Will Shigaraki go and be the hero of the villains?

I can see him reconstruct with Overhaul and magic, or I can see that we will get a reveal where Deku had the Lion Turtle solution all along and he has punched Shigaraki just at the angle to magically manifest 5-year old crying Tenko and save him and he was cold and aloof because he already "saved the boy".

I can see a BS solution incoming. But it will not fix this chapter for sure, nor the broader writing issues with Deku's character and with the Deku - Tomura dynamic.

[mishy-mashy]

Bruce is actually really attractive, and I have enough reasoning to make a list

He's:

Tall (. Tall enough to hit his head on the vault doorframe)

Long-legged

Has a straight nose bridge

Has high cheekbones (more noticeable in 2nd pic below)

Has a strong jawline

Sharp eyes, but they aren't small (plus eyebags if you're into that)

Overall, he has strong, attractive facial features

Has broad, refined shoulders. You can tell he works out (or he did, when he was alive)

Even has a thick, muscly neck

He has MUSCLE. Is SCULPTED. NOICE. VERY NOICE. (nice arms. Nice shoulders. Nice neck. Nice legs. Nice butt-)

(There are actually panels where you can see some of his muscles. Other than those already shown here, he's got bricky thighs-

-and in the panels where we first get his name dropped, he's got those shoulder blades too-)

The one time we see him smile, and he actually has a scary one

Has small, kinda sharp pupils, and his eyes remind me of a cat. We only ever saw him tense or defensive, so his resting/listening face is really cute

Other than the physical appearance stuff, he also:

Takes shit without batting an eye (patience, knowing it's just how Kudo is, etc)

Kudo being all "Cut the crap Bruce and give it to me straight", after Bruce tests his blood and is rightfully Concerned because they just faced AFO

Put up with Kudo's experimenting and testing over Yoichi's transferable Factor

Did ya'll see the look on Kudo's face when he realized he had Yoichi's Factor/will? Kudo was going to start in nonsense and Bruce just dealt with that.

Also something I noticed when looking back at the images here; Bruce has bandages on his arms in the void. But not when he faced AFO in the sewers.

Were he and Kudo cutting their arms open in their experimenting over Yoichi's theory? Is this why Kudo has two gauntlets instead of his one? Why we never see his bare arms in the void? That he always keeps his arms down so there's no slip?

Is smart enough to run blood tests, plus has enough common sense to pick Shinomori as his successor

He picked a guy who avoids society, has an Ability to detect danger so he can always stay away from AFO, is also a coward so he's never going to go throw himself into danger, even without knowing instinctively he stands no chance, etc.

Meanwhile, Kudo chose Bruce, who he played Hot Potato Yoichi with; but he did also trust Bruce, and put the only pure combative Ability in OFA through Bruce.

These two made their choices based on what they valued and saw the Factor needed.

Is logical, analytical, and calm.

He tried advising Midoriya on their Abilities in One For All, especially his own.

Midoriya then tried ignoring him about using Fa Jin for the first time, but found he was right, thinking: "Dammit!! I had [Lady Nagant] right where I wanted her, but... ugh! The Third was right. My parallel Quirk processes are all screwed up!" (ch. 314).

Plus, when Midoriya fixed his processing mistakes, Bruce was analyzing the way he reached his new conclusion. Pure facts, no bias, very calm, just saying it as it was.

We never see him panic. When he's caught by surprise in the sewers by AFO, Kudo, and Yoichi's little bubble event, he immediately reacts. He doesn't falter, he just knows he has to do something right now.

Was more willing to listen than Kudo to Yoichi's beckon, and probably was just following Kudo's rejection of Midoriya

While we don't see Kudo's face, we see Bruce's eyes when Yoichi calls on his heroes. Bruce was more open and receptive, or at least more impacted.

Bruce was also the one to start talking, while Kudo just kept quiet.

He actually communicates a lot

When Yoichi called them to support Midoriya, Bruce started talking to paint a picture of why they thought the way they did, so Yoichi understood where they were coming from.

(Though he seems to beat about the bush sometimes, since Kudo spoke up to be direct on how they couldn't just put their trust in some starry-eyed teenager. Plus, when Kudo tells him to just tell him what's wrong [double Factors])

When Midoriya first used Fa Jin against Nagant, Bruce came out just to tell him he knew what he was trying, but that Midoriya wasn't ready; and Midoriya found he was right. Midoriya just didn't want to listen to him then.

He asks Kudo for clarification after finding Kudo had two Factors in him after the sewer incident ("Just to be sure, All For One didn't touch you, right?") Kudo knew him well enough to go "stop beating around the bush and tell me", so Bruce was probably gonna start with questions, theories, and trying to understand everything in general, before saying "yeah you have two Factors. Don't know why".

Is strong-willed and loyal.

He followed Kudo, even to death, carrying on the cause he started until it ended with him.

Plus, when talking about how AFO needs a strong will to override OFA's own, we first see Bruce, Kudo, and Yoichi.

AFO couldn't steal OFA because the will was too strong for him, and that was back during Banjo's time. Since Shinomori never actually tried opposing AFO and just hid, we can assume the first Three (Yoichi, Kudo, Bruce) already had an accumulation of strong willpower that made OFA un-stealable. Those three are a strong enough foundation, and the main wills, that the other users just become bonuses.

Kudo, also saying that Midoriya needs allies with the same will and drive as him... hey Kudo, you're talking about yourself and your old allies, aren't you? That's why you look at Yoichi and Bruce when you say this.

Not only is Bruce attractive, but he's got good character. THE END.

[amaranthdahlia]

this js the funniest thing ever actually

[siflshonen]

Practice what you preach, Izuku! He's his own man, you egoist!

[shih-coulda-had-it]

As the anon partially responsible for boss baby Afo. Uh. Your welcome for the dodgeball I guess DKNDKFNFKG XD

D:< just for you. boss baby au. the point of afo's mission is to eradicate the glowing baby and prevent global tolerance of meta abilities. i don't know, i guess it's just funny to have big brother yoichi-nii be "in charge" of this nightmare capitalist baby.

[greenhappyseed]

Having now read the official release of MHA 407, I don’t (yet) see the argument that AFO was a traumatized baby who was just looking for someone to respond to his cries and take care of him the way that Tenko was wandering the streets. While it’s revealed that AFO doesn’t want to be alone, AFO’s backstory and Tenko’s backstory reveal two very different men with different motivations.

The narrative in 407 says young AFO distrusts anyone who won’t turn and look at him when he cries because those people don’t offer anything of value to him. He can’t manipulate them into doing what he wants, and therefore they are useless and he can kill them if he wants. This has long been AFO’s thought pattern, and it’s what he taught young Tenko — YOU are more important than anything, and YOU should always act how you desire. Nothing in the world matters except what YOU want to do.

Contrast that with young Tenko’s initial reactions when realizing he killed his family, and with Tomura’s later hesitation to kill (or even attack) Katsuki after Katsuki refuses to join the LOV. Tenko/Tomura cares about other people, even after they refuse him, in a way that AFO does not.

Moreover, look at young AFO’s faces. He isn’t shown smiling or crying or having any emotion at all until page 11, when he reveals he killed the glowing child and stole their quirk. He then grins widely as he talks about his dream of a world that exists only for him. AFO didn’t smile when killing the anti-meta group OR when reading with Yoichi. He has no happy, smiling memories prior to this moment (even with Yoichi), unlike Tenko who had fond memories of his mom, sister, friends, and dog.

As another point of contrast, look at why AFO wants to be the villain: He wants to be surrounded by people who pay tribute to him. He does not want to “battle on in solitude.” (Another reason why AFO hated All Might for smashing his face in — it required a lengthy recovery hidden away from followers.)

To AFO, people are a one-way relationship. He doesn’t want to be alone, so he wants to possess a brother who directly opposes everything AFO stands for; a brother who is family and who wishes for the best but will never be a supporter, follower, ally, or friend. AFO gives Yoichi a quirk thinking that will change Yoichi’s mind, or keep him somehow bound to AFO.

Tomura, however, wants allies, and in return he wants to give back to them. He got downright DEFENSIVE when Mirio said he didn’t have any friends. Tomura understands the give-and-take involved in working with people. He doesn’t just want followers that do his bidding.

In the end, AFO’s unrelenting selfishness will leave him alone — at some point he will run out of “followers” and paths to victory. Meanwhile, Yoichi and Kudou built a network that ensured they would not be alone in their battle. They found true allies in the other OFA holders, and in turn Izuku found allies among pro heroes and at UA, just as Tomura did in the LOV. They are not alone.

[selenestarmoon]

With AFO's past we understand why he is obsessed with family, it is because he sees family as people who are his who will always love him and be by his side.

That's why AFO hates Kudo for "causing" the death of Yoichi, his only family.

That's why he hates Nana and Endeavor because they have what he always wanted but they choose to put it aside in favor of their work as heroes (although Nana did it because AFO didn't give her another option).

And if DFO theory is true, AFO hates All Might for taking Izuku away from him and for passing on his dream to his son, and by extension, encouraging him to live (what AFO believes) a life full of loneliness and suffering because for AFO the heroes always suffer and are alone, hence why he tells Izuku that he chose a thorny path, while for AFO, the villains have carte blanche to do whatever they want and have followers (they aren't alone).

[fan-of-chaos]

Hey, so like.

Am I the only one who thinks that Shigaraki's face now looks very similar to all might true form??? Especially the cheekbones and the nose???

[featherstorm2004]

I love how the raws for this chapter specifically use the wording to explain how and why Izuku is going to save Tomura, because it has constantly been emphasising that above all else and despite everything he's done Tomura is a human being.

And I just love that because ultimately that is the heart of the story, that no matter what; the main reason people become villains is because their humanity is denied to them. we've seen it with Toga, with Dabi, with Spinner and now most recently All For One himself, who has yet to even have a name or identity outside of being a villain. And it's so refreshing for Izuku to understand that to an extent, (even if he doesn't get it fully) and why wouldn't he? he's spent the majority of his life being treated as less than human by most of society just for being quirkless so, it's only natural that he would be one of the first hero's to connect the dots.

I also love the little touches with Tomura where we can see that despite denying his humanity he still can't help himself, when he learns of All For One's death despite not feeling sad he still has gratitude towards him despite everything he's done, when he goes to decay Mount Fuji he thinks of Spinner and what he said his dream was. And I just can't help but find it funny, he's trying so hard to deny that there is any humanity or good in him left when it is so obvious that there is.

Hell, even All For One "the demon lord" still couldn't deny his own humanity in the end.

everything they do (as heinous as it is) there is still something so fundamentally human about it. Because even if people refuse to admit it, it's human to want people to see you, it's human to want others to care about your pain, it's human to want the people you believe are contributing to your pain to suffer as well. Every act they take is etched with raw humanity in it, which in turn makes it so fascinating when even they try to deny it despite how clearly they want to be seen and cared for.

but yeah that's just my long winded rant to say I really like this chapter and the dialogue, I just hope the official translations don't botch it. Because it is extremely important for this message in particular to get across to fully understand and appreciate the story of bnha.

[helga-grinduil]

'AFO doesn't contribute anything to the narrative or themes' - yes, the Psychological Abuse and Exploitation Guy Extraordinaire, the 'quirks define people's entire lives and behaviours' guy, the 'all people are characters and they can't step away from their designated roles in this story/play' guy, the 'Fantasy became Reality (negative) theme' guy, the guy who tries to escape from reality into his own fantasy and hide his real self and his vulnerable human self behind his villain alter ego so hard he stopped viewing himself and everyone else as actual people, the generational trauma and continuing the cycle of abuse guy, the guy who groomed Tenko to be his surrogate brother fantasy and his own self-insert OC both at the same time to hide his real self even deeper, does not contribute anything to the narrative or themes.

Be so fucking real, please.

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

Rereading the manga, I notice something really interesting. If you go back to chapter 59, you'll find All Might explaining how AFO and OFA as quirks were born. That's the first time Toshinori explains the history of AFO too.

The interesting part is the way he tells the story of Yoichi, the first user of OFA. It reminds me a lot of Tenko's story. It can be just me, but please read it for yourself:

" The man had a quirkless little brother / the man had a quirkless younger brother.

The little brother was small, and frail, but he harbored a strong sense of justice...! / This brother was small and fragile, but he had a strong sense of justice!

His brother's actions panged his heart... and he opposed him / and the deeds of his big brother pained him... So he opposed the tyrant. "

( A quirkless little brother asking why the world is so unfair finding out he actually has a quirk when he decides to oppose his abuser? Of course, here the difference is that Yoichi was older than Tenko when it all happened. He was not a confused 5 years old trying to understand why and how.... )

" Yes... He who was thought quirkless, did in fact possess one prior. / Yes... It turned out he hadn't actually been quirkless from the start.

Though neither he himself nor anyone around him had ever noticed / thought neither he nor anyone else has known it. "

That means there is a previous instance in which a young man thought quirkless had indeed a quirk: Yoichi himself!

It also makes me think about how Tomura/Tenko's control over decay depends on his emotional and psychological state.

The night his quirk awakened, we saw that Tenko had no control over it; everything that touched the ground he had contact with decayed. After he was "rescued" and after he was given the hands of his deceased family, AFO noticed that Tomura had unconsciously restrained decay so he would only affect the things he directly touched. Later on the story, Tomura was able to expand his quirk, evolving to decay without using all his five fingers during My Villain Academia. He was able to decay things at will during the War arc!!!

Could it be possible that Tenko had unconsciously repressed his own quirk for years before the night he killed his family?

Maybe when he tried to repress his own feelings about what was happening at home, Tenko also repressed decay without knowing. If he kept all his negative feelings in check as to not upset his family, it'd be an option.

If we wanted to reaaaally go crazy theorizing, we could even make a case about how Tenko having a previous quirk before AFO implanted decay on him is a possibility (within the frames of the bnha narrative). I'm not going there, but I think that fic authors would appreciate the prompt.

[class1akids]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the AFO Origin story. It's really interesting because with their mother dying, it's almost like his story is pure "nature", no "nurture".

But it's also clear that for whatever reasons, AFO saved Yoichi's life as babies, protected and nourished him, clothed him. That instinct to keep the only person he had safe and close existed within him somewhere.

And it really feels like the brothers reading the comics is a watershed moment. Yoichi introduces AFO to comics and still believes that he could call to his brother's better angels by showing him the hero.

But ironically, instead of being inspired by the hero, AFO sees his lonely struggle in the dark not unlike his own early years and identifies instead with the villain who gets adoration out of fear.

I think what AFO fears is loneliness and what he wants is connection. But he is not capable of recognizing this. So instead, pursuing his dream, he ends up severing his bond with the only person who believed that there could be good in him.

But it doesn't matter how much more powerful he gets, how many more allies he collects, he still craves the bond with Yoichi even if he has no concept of real love.

And it's really tragic for Yoichi too, who wanted to save his brother / villain through the power of stories, but the stories he introduced him to solidified AFO's evil when he chose the Demon Lord as inspiration.