#Camlann theories

[ellie-the-awesome-11]

This might be way too early in the show to start spouting theories but I think Dai has a greater role to play in the Arthurian apocalypse than his 'Nameless' status would suggest.

I think he's a Narrator, or maybe the Narrator.

With one of the main themes of the show being stories and narratives, a crucial aspect of that is there actually being someone to tell the story in the first place, there needs to be someone to pass on the tall tales and weave them together so that the audience can feel specific emotions. Joy, catharsis, sadness, hope.

Also Dai has been the only one to have a solo piece before each episode where he's talking directly to us dear listeners. His monologues set the stage for the emotional undertones of the episode And the fact that he sings before it feels so important, too (his va has a lovely voice btw). Almost every story I can think of that started as an oral tradition was originally told with some kind of musical accompaniment or with a set beat and metric structure. It's like it's harkening back to these old practices.

And with that I think Nameless folk as a whole have more importance than Kay's 'lambs to the slaughter' stance suggests, because who else would be their Audience? Who else would hear their stories if everyone outside of the Named died because of Phenomena?

[thatdamhobbit]

So. I think I’ve connected some dots about Arthur and his band of morons. And it’s not good news. (cw: misgendering)

My evidence is as follows:

At the end of Perry and Kay’s talk on the radio, Kay calls Perry ‘brother’ (ep. 3). Now this in itself is a dick move, as Perry says themself, ‘I am not your brother.’

Now this gives us two options - either Kay is misgendering Perry deliberately, or Perry didn’t start using they/them until after they left the Knights. I’m inclined to think it’s the former, since Perry has ‘thought a lot about who [they are]’, and ‘that hasn’t stopped or changed because of the Cataclysm’ (Perry, ep. 2). To me that suggests that Perry started using they/them before the Cataclysm, so Kay would know, since our trio spent some time with the Knights before we meet them (I think - we don’t have an exact timeline yet). Already I hate this guy. But wait! There’s more!

We’ve seen the Knight’s attitude to Names. They view Nameless as ‘lambs to the slaughter’ (Kay, ep. 3), and seem to believe that there is no separation between Name and person. We see this in Kay referring to Morgan as ‘the witch le Fay’ (ep. 3). Morgan a) is being referred to by her Name, showing that Kay believes them to be one and the same, and b) hasn’t actually done anything wrong (that we know of), but is being blamed for her Name’s crimes. There is no freedom to create your own story, you are stuck to what your Name decides.

In Perry and Dai’s fight, Perry says ‘You know what it was like back there. For me, for you. For Morgan.’ This tells me that our trio had a shitty time of it back there, so much so that hiking through the Welsh wilderness, being attacked by Phenomena every other day, was preferable. Makes sense for Dai and Morgan, right? Dai’s Nameless, Morgan’s Name is a villain Name, and with the Knights’ attitude to Names I can’t imagine either of them would have a great time there. But Perry? Perry’s a Knight, the great Sir Peredur. What reason would they have to leave? What was so bad for them there that they left their nice cushy job being hero-worshipped by 900 people as someone with a Name (Named?) in favour of wilderness camping in Wales? Well, I think I’ve figured it out, and I don’t like it one bit.

I think that, since the Peredur of myth used he/him (edit: my evidence for this is google, I claim no proper knowledge of arthuriana), that the Knights insisted on misgendering Perry because the Knights’ belief in no separation between Name and person would mean that Perry would “have” to use he/him (heavy air quotes, the Knights are dicks and wrong) because Peredur of myth used he/him.

Aaagghh I hate it so much but it makes more sense the more I think about it! Seriously when I find those Knights they better be ready to catch these fuckin hands.

Anyway if you’re reading this that means you got to the end of my mini essay. Well done! Thank you!

Keep the home fires burning

[fluffypotatey]

Since I very sincerely doubt Uther managed to kill ALL the Dragonlords (they're knights, not the KGB, and it was a lot easier to disappear back then) imagine them returning to Albion from Rome or whatever to find Cousin Balinor's only son is ruling Camelot and the Druids, is best friends with an immortal knight and one dude that's been raised from the fucking dead, is bonded to THEE oldest dragon they've ever heard of (and who is also nuttier than squirrel stew) and a semi-feral hatchling that barely listens to four (4) people max and hisses/bites/claws at the rest, and oh yeah, is married to a fucking Pendragon.

Family dinners must be a hoot and a half.

oh to be a fly on the wall when they finally make an audience in Camelot. oh to see Merlin's face morph from apprehension to wonder to exhaustion to horror because they're telling Arthur everything they know.

[nextstopparis]

hey uhhhhhh do u guys remember this bracelet

and how it suddenly (to my knowledge anyway) disappeared n there were a few fan theories abt it…

uhhhh

is. is that? um? is that it? uhhhhh??

[ottovanvonveen]

I fucking knew it, omg

[thatrandombookworm]

Finally listened to the new Camlann ep and i have Thoughts (nothing bad i promise)

Putting them under the cut so i dont spoil

Ok so I know Dai is technically Nameless cause he doesn’t have an Arthurian name, BUT, hear me out, there is a (folkloric) story with a David (Dafydd is the Welsh form of David)

David and Goliath

A story where someone who is fairly defenceless goes and takes on someone much more powerful than himself

I think that Arthur is gonna be Dai’s Goliath

We know from this episode that Nameless people are pretty much helpless when it comes to resisting Arthur’s magic compulsion thing so there’s already that comparison/connection.

And I know that Perry said that the apocalypse doesn’t apply to any religion that they know of, but would you try to go up against Arthur if you knew what he could do/what he could make you do? Especially if you don’t have sufficient backup? No. So why would someone, especially someone who’s Nameless, ever try that?

And also, since its not 1:1 David vs Goliath like the other legends we’ve seen, it technically wouldn’t be a religious thing

My theory is that eventually something (idk what yet) is gonna happen, and Dai will have no choice but to go up against Arthur, David and Goliath style

(Also i just think it would be really cool to have a Jewish story be featured)

The only thing that works against this is that its not Welsh, and Camlann is about Welsh legends/stories

[worth-this-and-more]

Can have new theories about sel

*clears throat* *sips coffee and daintily puts the cup down* let's get down to business

im already doing a bit of research on other asks that I've gotten, but here are some theories i already have

this one is broadly a merlin theory but i am pretty sure the tattoos are connected to merlin's descent into demonia where the tattoos monitor how powerful the merlins are becoming and then slowly but gradually imbalance their control over their demonia making them "succumb to their blood". my theory is that as rootcraft is majorly used in healing and protection, and we already saw the effects of removing alice's mesmer gave her immunity from any future mesmers, so it is possible that this is how merlin's oaths will be cut off too, safely. faye probably used her powers to vanish natasia's oaths, which could explain why she was able to stop her descent and maybe after faye's death she is on the run and is not in contact with any rootcrafters so which is why she wasn't sure that she could help sel?? either way, rootcrafting is a major part for merlin's "succumbing to the blood" thingy

the "as a string of mysterious kidnappings escalates and Merlins are found dead" thing. it is never specified that merlins are kidnapped and killed. what's to say who's kidnapped, merlin's might be just killed and the one's they are guarding are kidnapped. so here i present to you my theory, natasia and sel, the mother son duo is on a rampage, a rather non-silent one, to find out where the fuck is bree and ofc selwyn knows that erebus is behind this. what better way to find out where is erebus than to just get the details from the other seneschals or regents or whatever tf they are called I'm not gonna bother to search up the names these don't deserve that much time and effort from me. and merlins are protecting them, so kidnap the peoples and kill off merlins. who knows the kidnappings could also be of legendborn because they are "hostages trapped with the mother-son duo" but we all know they're allies after all. this will be an excuse to get out of radar from the order because by the looks of it this whole thing is gonna end one way or the other. this will be the final camlann anyways.

and also while we're on the topic, selwyn and bree would be revealed to have met as children which will take us back in a flashback to that scene at davis's house where sel "several questions ash across his face before he decides on one" asks bree to explain why did she yell out when he touched her and do you feel something when i look at you?? and he remembers fleeting a forgotten memory of a girl with the same pretty hair and bold eyes that told him your eyes feel prickly, like sparks, but like good sparks and i just know this will happen in canon whether we get it in the books or not. i might write a fanfic about this lmaoo.

this went longer than expected but yeah there you go!! I'm yet to post a few more specific theories i just need to read the arthuriana

[bookofmac]

okay okay okay, thinking thoughts

So I find the concept of Names really interesting in Camlann, reading into the extracanonical stuff put on the tumblr is giving me food for theory crafting. The Catacylsm seems to be some kind of return of magic to the world (possibly heralded by the return of The King of the Britons in their hour of need?) and thus people with significant Names have access to something because of it. they fall into the stories of their namesakes; Perry, Gwaine, and Kay are Knights, Morgan is Morgana Le Fay, and we now have a Gwen in Shújūn.

Based on Kay's dicussion with Perry if more people can fill in the roles of their stories to more 'to plan' the stories will go, Of course this is not good news if you know the general end point of Arthurian legend (Betrayal, muderer, war, most everyone dead, the 'Glory' of camelot gone). It's inherently kind of a doomsday cult if you stay in those stories, you know where parts of this are going (i'll get back to this)

it also seems like there may be some, for lack of a better term, kin drama going on. There are 900 members of the court and Kay mentions that Peredur is a really uncommon name outside of Wales, meaning there are certain knights who are more common, i assume Lancelot's, Kay's, maybe a few Talisin's, a bunch of Gareth's, and like 50 Elaines like in the legends lol

We also dont have the context for how Names work full yet and neither do our characters. I think theres a lot of answers to be had with Shújūn/Gwen with how it works, how you know other than the buzzing in you're head and desire go through the motions and Follow the Story

Now, where does Dai fit in all this?

Dai doesn't have a Name, and I think theres going to be a point where he changes his name in a major way, but not to a Name, but a Bardic name. In welsh poetic and story telling tradtions Welsh poets, THE OG Bards, will take on pseudonyms tell their stories. This practice stems from the medievil era, but goes forth to today, and many modern Welsh and welsh heritage poets have connections to this tradition (Dylan Thomas' middle name was his great uncles bardic name, Sarah Williams published her work under the name Sadie), I believe it's also a requirement to have one if you intend to perform in the major Eisteddfod, (I am Australian so my experiance of Eisteddfods here is very different so if i'm wrong on that let me know)

Why would he do this? I think Dai is going to, at least try, to write him and his friends a way out.

Much ink is spilt over how Arthurian legend doesnt have an 'orginal text', and as such there are lots of stories that are inherently contradictory; Bedwyr is the best knight, but so are Gwaine, Lancelot, and Galahad. Mordred is some random king until his Arthur's son. Arthur has a sister, no he has two, actually he has three and one of them is an Elaine. This could be used to explain any doubles (are you my Gwaine), as well as why we see a few different spelling varients which are, the very welsh Peredur as opposed to Percival or Parzifal, the anglisised and more boarish Kay as opposed to Cei or Caius (this last one might just to keep Dai and Kay distinct tho). These variations are no more or less 'canon' than any other telling of the story, and so often the writer of a given telling of Arthurian legend is going to have their own bias. But things dont HAVE to end the way they always do, and sometime you need to have someone outside the story you're caught in to tell you a new one.

You are not locked into that ever looming cloud of Thomas Mallory and Le Morte d'Arthur.

Other evidence I have for this is that Dai sings at the begining of each episode, and sings in welsh at that. He also is, to a point our narrator, existing both in and out of the current narative. Also his name is an a lyric of Sosban Fach (a song i would be surprised if it wasn't in the show at some point) 'Dai bach y sowldiwr' which is also not from the text the song was based on. Tangential yes, but i think it's worth thinking about.

I think there is also something to be said about choice in what your name is and how it feeds into the overall theme of identiy, and how that plays into other themes at play in the story, like Transness, Imperialism, and Predestination

TL:DR; While he doesnt have a Name, Dai's gonna give himself an epic bard name and save them all by writing a killer hook to get them out of the story

[ofstarsandmoonlightt]

ok so i saw this post that got me thinking; as to who'll represent which character from the Arthurian Legend (while also keeping in mind that twp won't be exactly a retelling but more like loosely inspired by it)

Kit's royal heritage or whatever gives him an Arthur position but he also has powers that the others don't so it also goes in Merlin's direction.

I've heard the Blackthorn sword also comes into play so it probably represents excalibur, which either Dru or Ty will wield. (Ty's weapon of choice was said to be knives i think and Dru's wasn't mentioned/i don't remember, so maybe the sword'll be Dru's?)

Then there's Ash, who I think might be confused with the first heir (new twp theory?). Look, he's this mysterious guy whom probably not many know about and all; so i do think that some people who know about Kit being the first heir, while not telling anyone any specifics, kinda let it slip that the first heir's this teenage kid and all and it's easy to confuse so that *could* happen?And then it could give the illusion of Ash being Arthur and Kit can be Merlin, his mage.

This makes me think who's Lancelot? Who'll betray them? And Morgana? Can Dru represent her? There are many characters who can represent the ones from the legend but the relationships don't work out. If we're taking Ash for Arthur, Dru can't be Morgana; but if we take Ty she very well can be.

Also there's the lady of the lake, easily Livvy; it is also said that the lady of the lake gives Arthur Excalibur, so it can happen that Livvy somehow gets to know of the sword and tells whoever's Arthur it's location and all.

Camlann's the final battle ofc so in the end they'll have to fight; literally everyone dies in it so i guess it signifies the end of the shadowhunting world.

So there's that, if any of you have more thoughts let me know.

[fyeahaudiodrama]

new camlann theory based on almost nothing except

dai’s gonna start rewriting this story

[quillandqueer]

✨Interesting New Releases | 17th July

The Black Bird Oracle (All Souls #5): Diana Bishop journeys to the darkest places within herself—and her family history—in the highly anticipated fifth novel of the beloved #1 New York Times bestselling All Souls series.

The Bright Sword: A gifted young knight named Collum arrives at Camelot to compete for a spot on the Round Table, only to find he’s too late. The king died two weeks ago at the Battle of Camlann, leaving no heir, and only a handful of the knights of the Round Table survive.

The Duke at Hazard (Gentlemen of Uncertain Fortune #2): The Duke of Severn is one of the greatest men in Britain. He's also short, quiet, and unimpressive. And now he's been robbed, after indulging in one rash night with a strange man who stole the heirloom Severn ring from his finger. The Duke has to get it back, and he can't let anyone know how he lost it.

Grief in the Fourth Dimension: In life, high school classmates Caroline Davison and Kenny Zhou existed in separate universes. But after their deaths, they find themselves thrown together as roommates in a mysterious white room—one that seems to exist outside of time and space.

The Lost Story: Inspired by C. S. Lewis’s The Chronicles of Narnia, this wild and wondrous novel is a fairy tale for grown-ups who still knock on the back of wardrobes—just in case.

Riot Act: In an alternate 1991, the authoritarian US government keeps tabs on everybody and everything. It censors which books can be read, what music can be listened to, and which plays can be performed.

The West Passage: A palace the size of a city, ruled by giant Ladies of unknowable, eldritch origin. A land left to slow decay, drowning in the debris of generations.

Where Are You, Echo Blue?: When Echo Blue, the most famous child star of the nineties, disappears ahead of a highly publicized television appearance on the eve of the millennium, the salacious theories instantly start swirling. But Goldie Klein, an ambitious young journalist who also happens to be Echo's biggest fan, knows there must be more to the story.

The White Guy Dies First: The White Guy Dies First is a powerful and entertaining collection for YA readers featuring thirteen scary stories in which the white guy dies first. (the author list goes HARD on this one)

[thatdamhobbit]

Vivian, also known as Ninianne, also known as Nimueh, also known as the lady of the lake.

The one who had a romance(?) plot with Merlin.

Like this Vivian was involved with Dai.

DAI IS MERLIN

[kateis-cakeis]

Kilgharrah gets too much flak in this fandom because of one theory that's just so ingrained into fanon that it's everywhere

He was doing his best!!!!!

Edit to include the tags on request of featheredmoonwings in the notes!:

He did nothing wrong <3 He only suggested murder a handful of times which is totally respectable for a dragon to do!

He didn't even have all the pieces of the puzzle - he had no idea about Camlann, and in fact, the only people who did were the Catha and Lochru. He was doing his best with what he had and he needs to be given a break, the poor guy...

[mistbow]

I love Sorey’s ending MA in Rays, Raijin Souhyoujin (雷迅創雹刃).

It is an Ice- and Lightning-elemental MA, the elements reflecting his connection to Mikleo and Gramps respectively. He’s really an Elysian through and through, in the end, going back to his origin (historical technicalities would make his hometown Camlann, but that’s just historical technicalities; his heart belongs to Elysia forever.)

Also love how they went for “雹” instead of plain “氷” for the “ひょう” part of the name. “雹” or “hail” in English, is a type of precipitation (condensation of water vapor) that usually gets formed during thunderstorms. Again, you could see the connection to his Elysian family.

雷を呼び、限界を超える全身全霊の一撃を放つ魔鏡技。 A mirrage arte that calls forth lightning and unleashes a blow of one’s whole body and soul transcending the limits.

Again with the 全身全霊/whole body and soul, but this time transcending even the limits. He even says it in the quote.

来たれ神雷！オレの全てで！限界を超える！ Come forth, divine thunder! With my everything! I will transcend the limits!

Popular theory has it that Sorey might be Heldalf’s biological son (there are more than just that one manga page supporting this theory, btw, hints were even in the game itself, but we’re not getting into this today) and in a way, he inherited Lion’s Howl (獅子戦吼) from him, so now even beyond that, he inherits one from his actual parent, the only one that matters to him.

I know Sorey being mostly associated with the Lightning element is not a new thing; after all, both his MAs in the original game, Bolt Tempest (雷迅双豹牙) and Divine Wrath (烈震神雷牙), are for all intent and purposes Lightning-elemental anyway, they’re only Void in the game because it’s Zestiria that classifies Lightning/Light and Dark under Void... but here are some other fun stuff while we’re at it:

Kimura Ryouhei (Sorey’s JP VA) suddenly tweeting Indignation chant, which made Indignation trended on Twitter on that day too. In Tales of Memoria, years before this tweet was even made, Tales-related questions were asked to the VAs, and one of the questions was what arte they would want to use, and Kimura answered Indignation to that.

Speaking of Indignation... I’ve always wondered why Sorey’s profile in Perfect Guide has Maotelus’ crest instead of the usual Shepherd’s dragon’s crest.

In the official Chinese localization of the game, Sorey’s name is rendered 史雷, very fitting for him since it consists of the characters for “history” and “lightning” and I will always love his Chinese name for this... really unintended meaningful name.

So yeah, Lightning child Sorey. As far as Sorey is concerned, Zenrus is his parent, the one who could give him more than enough love that he couldn’t get from the father and mother he’d never had.

[firstofficerrose]

Crazy Camlann theory time!

Now that my Arthur is a Bear theory has been debunked by episode 4, it is time to replace it! Drumroll please...

Dai is secretly a dragon!

Hear me out. Yes this is crazy and mostly unsupported. However!

Dai is a diminutive of Dafydd, which is the Welsh version of David. The Red dragon of Wales (Y Ddraig Golc) is apparently colloquially known as Dewi... which is a modern Welsh version of David. Connections??? Maybe!!!

Also, Morgan appears to think that Dai is quite strong, she was scolding him for not saving himself from the Kelpie, and he countered that doing the other thing (perhaps hulking out dragon style) could have been much worse. I *think* he also has access to some kind of magic, which woule be a dragony thing to have. Y Ddraig Golc is a symbol of defiance, and a survivor, both of which work for Dai.

Whatever it is, Perry doesn't know. Perry thinks that Dai is Nameless... and that *could* be true, but it does sound like Morgan, the clairvoyant in the group, thinks that Dai has power.

My other theory is that Dai is somehow from another story. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

[old-stoneface]

my camlann podcast theory is that gwen figured out what dai's real name is before the end of ep 7. she's smart and well-read and good at keeping shit to herself