#DePlatForm

[antifainternational]

There is this argument that I keep hearing from a United States religious leader. He says that deplatforming is an example of how antifascists only make things worse, referring specifically to Milo Yiannopoulos. He says that deplatforming doesn't work because antifascists made him more famous, whereas Yiannopoulos deplatformed himself when he defended pedophilia. This is an annoying argument and it is going virtually unchallenged to a guy that has 70,000 people worth of influence. To avoid reinventing the wheel, is there a strong defense of deplatforming that already exists? Is this worth reintroducing to the discourse, or should I pick a different fight?

We have a looong response to this question, Anon, so here is Part One; Part Two is here.

Antifascists use a strategy of deplatforming to deny fascists access to public space, venues, and resources from which they would otherwise freely broadcast their vile hate and genocidal plans from. Whether it be a public square, a university lecture hall, a social media account, or access to the mass media - antifascists believe that denying fascists the means to disseminate their repugnant views and recruitment messages from is a key component of antifascist work. 

Many have argued that deplatforming = denial of free speech rights, but they miss some key distinctions between the two. One is that no one - NO ONE - is obligated to provide fascists with a platform to begin with. Mass media aren't obligated to provide them with interviews and op-eds. Colleges and libraries aren't obligated to provide them with lecture halls and meeting spaces. Social media networks are not obligated to provide them with accounts or access. In all of these cases, there are gatekeepers that everyday make decisions about who can/cannot use the platform in question. XKCD explains the difference:

Some, like the religious leader you mention, say that deplatforming makes things worse because it gives more attention to fascists than they'd have otherwise. This is another example of the "ignore the nazis and they'll just go away" argument that liberals love to make about how to properly respond to fascists. Unfortunately, ignoring fascists = enabling fascists, as they grow their base and increase their terror campaign against people they don’t like (ethnic/racial/religious minorities, women, LGBTQ+, disabled people, etc.) unopposed. There is no instance in history where a fascist movement was stopped because non-fascists put their heads in the sand and did their best to ignore the fascists, but there are many instances in history where people were forcibly removed, injured, and killed because people chose to ignore the fascists attacking them. There was a time when fascists would fly the free speech flag to decry antifascist effort to deplatform them; we’d be lying if we said that didn’t result in a momentary amplification of their voice through things like mass media, but that moment has largely passed as media outlets found it increasingly difficult to justify their positions. At the same time, we’d argue that the movement that gained the most through media amplification of antifa deplatforming efforts was the antifa movement itself.  Our collective has been around for eight years and we’ve seen antifascist go from being a relatively obscure movement to one that the (former) president of the United States frequently spoke out about/against in international media, almost entirely due to the strategy of deplatforming fascists.  So from our perspective, deplatforming had an unintended but welcome effect of making millions aware of the antifascist movement, and drawing thousands upon thousands of people to it.  In Part Two of our response to your query, we look at Milo Yianopoulus - the example cited by the religious leader you reference as evidence that deplatforming backfires + another equally-major fascist figure + get into the argument a bit more.

[the-obsolete-man]

This creator Andrea Karshan on TikTok booted me from her live stream bc she she didn’t like how I pronounced Chabad. She completely gaslit me when I know I pronounced it correctly. She then claimed I wasn’t even Jewish. She seems to have some screws loose and never treats anyone with respect. She shouldn’t have a platform at all.

[johnnusz]

Who else loves #RusselBrand??? De platform the main media as they are just parrots or mouth pieces of whomever is in power. #Cancel #CNN #MSNBC #FOXNEWS & The rest who want nothing but war. #Vote4Bobby #Kennedy24 .com

[phroexx]

This is done on purpose because deplatforming works

[lily-orchard-archives]

2022-10-01

[unknownentry404]

Random take but, instead of “cancel,” can we bring back the term:

Deplatform?

As in, stop giving credence to? Reducing the voice and reach of? Taking them off of their pedestal?

Disproving and debunking harmful rhetorics and moving on?

One thing, we all kind of forget after being terminally online so much, is that there is no longterm solution for people who are harmful bigots. Like. We’re not going to kill them?? I mean, especially in left leaning circles, we’re all very anti-prison and anti-death penalty anyway, right?

The best thing we can do is disprove, deplatform and try to educate. But just ignore and allow to them to fade into obscurity, when that doesn’t pan out.

Also, something I think “deplatform” takes account for, that “cancel” doesn’t is: redemption and growth are good things? And you can’t Deplatform someone who ISNT actively saying or doing bad things CURRENTLY.

Everyone makes mistakes, the important thing is to own up to them and learn from them. If the person doesn’t? Deplatform them. But if they do?? Let bygones be bygones?

Idk, life is just exhausting. I don’t have the energy to either deal with bigoted assholes anymore, or shame people who made mistakes they’re actively sorry for and have learned from. I got better things to using my spoons on.

[gina281]

New PayPal Rules Can Clean Out Your Account

New PayPal Rules Can Clean Out Your Account

Starting on November 3rd, 2022, PayPal is changing their terms of service. Now, it is a private company and they can do as they like with their users, but they are applying their terms of service to your personal social media postings as well. If in violation, they will deduct $2500.00 from your account per violation of their terms of service. That adds up fast and can wipe out your account…

[considermygenderminecrafted]

Hello.

I'm going to dissect what is happening in Wilburs appology, partially for my own sanity, partially because there is merit in dissecting what is being said here, what is being implied, and understanding manipulative tactics (even when they are so poorly done because he is too blinded by his own misogyny to effectively manipulate the narrative.)

In conclusion:

He only believes the harm he did was making her clear his apartment and being selfish

Does not believe he did anything wrong in regards to ignoring her safe word, pinning her down, or causing her pain she did not want.

As such, he necessarily her feelings as irrational and his perspective as more accurate, a further case of misogyny.

Thank you to Shubble for making us all aware of this shitty mans awful behaviour, and for her bravery in being the first to step forward. Thank you all other who corroborated her words and added their own experiences.

Shubbles channel

Shubbles new minecraft series

Shubbles twitch

[solargeist]

the amount of strength and bravery Shelby has inspired in so many girls is incredible, I know this must be stressful for her, but I hope she also knows the good and change she sparked

[msaprildaniels]

You heard what Tucker Carlson said last week?

No you fucking didn't, because deplatforming works.

[sagethemediocre]

Hehe isn’t it funny that Youtube doesn’t enforce their own policies when it comes to doxxing anymore? No but seriously over the past few days it has been appalling how Youtube is essentially coddling SSSniperwolf when millions of people have been telling them that she committed a serious crime (Doxxing is illegal in California if doing so rises to the level of online harassment.) Which it was online harassment that SSSniperwolf put Jacksfilms thru. Yet Youtube continues to protect her and even have changed the rules to protect because she makes them a fuckton of many and to them, it’s better to protect one of their biggest moneymakers than an OG creator that has stuck by the platform and has been creating content since 2006. Also, may we all be reminded, it’s not just Jack who’s being put at risk here, it’s also his wife Erin who isn’t a content creator, she is just a regular person who works a normal job. Yet now, she has to worry about her safety and that of her husband. Overall, it’s a terrible situation and the fact that Youtube refuses to do anything about it says a lot about the platform and those who run it.

[the-obsolete-man]

Who is Andrea Kachman?

Sorry Andrea Karshan

[anonymous-dentist]

"It's not that deep"

Yes, yes it is. It is that deep. Buying a Trump flag is that deep. I don't know if most of these Dream fans leftover in their echo chamber of a fanbase remember this, because they were probably kids, but the Trump presidency signaled the end of the world of minorities all across the United States. We're still feeling the repercussions of that today in 2022, almost two full years into Biden's administration. White supremacists are out in louder numbers than they have been in years. Antisemitism is on the rise. Abortion is being threatened in most U.S. states after the conservative-packed Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade this summer, a court packed by Trump and including Christo-fascists, racists, misogynists, homo- and transphobes, and literal alleged rapists and actual cult members. Anti-queer legislation is being pushed in a significant number of U.S. states and in the federal government by members of the legislature who have been emboldened by having a president that agreed with them.

The 2020 presidential election was huge- some of the largest numbers in decades- because people wanted this man out of office. And he's running again in 2024 despite having been impeached twice (the most for any sitting president in the history of the United States) and despite being under investigation for a bajillion federal crimes, including a recent indictment brought against him in response to him instigating, encouraging, and assisting an attempted insurrection and violent takeover of the government in January of last year. (You people might remember it for Doomsday on the smp; many others remember it as one of the most terrifying moments in U.S. political history.) He's running despite the several charges of campaign fraud and election interference brought against him. The Republicans might not be done with him yet, which is a terrifying thought. Even if they are and they're going with DeSantis for 2024, Trump is still planning on running, and he's bankrupt right now. He's broke. His company is broke. He is broke. The only income he gets now are from MAGA supporters buying his merch. Those funny little NFTs from last week? Those support him.

Know what else directly supports Donald Trump and his campaign? Flags. Buying flags.

Does this mean that Dream and Sapnap are Trump supporters for buying a Trump flag as a gag gift for their British friend? No, absolutely not, but the joke of 'lol look at this stupid idiot flag we got you' doesn't land when, A, the person giving the gift is a former Trump supporter himself, and, B, the person that the flag was bought from is a literal white supremacist and fascist who is friends with white supremacists and fascists who all want queer people to die, they want women to be silent or to die, they want civil rights overturned, they want to turn this country back into a shell of itself in the name of white male Christian supremacy

Dream's audience is young and vulnerable. Many members are queer. Many are POC. Most are young. They might not remember how fucking terrifying 2016 through 2020 were. People woke up in tears the day after election day in 2016 for a reason. The polls were flooded in 2020 for a reason. These audience members might not remember that because they were so young, or they might not realize the gravity of the situation. What does it say to them when their hero pulls out a Trump flag and says it's a gift? It's something to laugh at, yeah, but is it really? It shows people that it's okay not to take Trump seriously, and he and his followers are still a threat to America today. It's dangerous not to take him and his followers seriously. And since the Democrats don't seem to have anybody they're pushing for for 2024, it's especially important for potential voters (because that's what these fans are, many will be old enough to vote by 2024) to start to research and understand the opposition.

Oh, and this also alienates members of Dream's audience that do remember the Trump administration. Reminder, thanks to Trump and his buddies, being queer is becoming illegal again. POC are constantly under attack because of the racist remarks encouraged by Trump during his administration. Treating Trump as a joke could, and probably has, alienated a portion of viewers. It shows them just how seriously Dream thinks these issues are. It's all worth it for a funny joke that won't appear for longer than a minute on a several hour long stream train, one viewed by tens of thousands of people live and hundreds of thousands more via vods and clips in the 12+ hours that have passed since.

You'd think that Dream would know better with a platform this size and with a fanbase as unique as what his used to be, but I guess not. Critical thinking is vital in this industry, whether you're a fan or a creator. Do I think he meant any harm in this? No, I think he's just a moron. A terrible man, yeah, but not for this. For this, he's just a fucking idiot, and he needs to get a PR guy, and he needs to fucking think before he does things for once in his life. Because it could've been funny to some people, including himself, but there is a responsibility to be, well, responsible with yourself and your audience when you're a content creator. It's very easy to send the wrong message out. There's a certain level of critical thinking that needs to be put into place, and that clearly is not a skill that Dream has.

[unhonest-iago]

It’s already been said but yea, Philza’s 100% entitled to a ‘keep me & my wife’s names out of your fucking mouth’ moment towards Dream

Anyways, I’m not watching the video. I’ve just been keeping up with it through stuff said on this app. Mostly just to see if he says something actually worth listening to which verdict seems to be ‘nope.’

And before any dream stans get on my ass, been reading the shit y’all been saying about it as well. Noticed that most stans use the drituation tag while those who aren’t mostly use the dream situation tag. Or at least that’s what shows up when I go through them.

. . .

Edit; went and watched the video, still stand by what I said in this post

[tuhbanbuv]

Lol Illuminaughtii can't even break 3k views and 200 likes and is resorting to suing Oz because she can't foreclose him lol

Remember she still has her Patreon and most of what she's done is against Patreon TOS so pls report her to staff!

[therainbowwillow]

I am not by any means someone who has a large platform on the internet, but seeing as my most popular post of all time, seen by tens of thousands of people, was on hbomberguy's Plagiarism and You(Tube), I would like to publicly get my thoughts straight on what has happened since.

I've seen a lot of discussion about who is to blame for James' recent mental health crisis and I would like to firmly state that hbomberguy (and Kat, his producer), others who made good faith videos on the situation (The Ace Couple, Jessie Gender, Todd in the Shadows), and people who commented on the situation in good faith are not to blame in the slightest. At the same time, I understand that the sudden loss of support, friends, and a career undoubtedly harmed James Somerton and that it is upsetting to me to see anyone put in that position, regardless of their actions. I believe that hbomberguy used his platform responsibly. From the beginning, I noticed that he was making clear, intentional choices regarding his treatment of the situation, including framing Nick as a possible victim rather than an accomplice to the plagiarism, reminding his audience not to harass James Somerton, and refusing to stoop to personal attacks in his video. Having seen hbomberguy's professional handling of the situation, I believe that he is a person who has a good understanding of the sway he has online and how to use that power delicately. I'm sure a choice was made weighing the benefit of speaking out against the possible harm and I believe that hbomberguy & crew made the correct decision. The same goes for The Ace Couple, Jessie Gender, and Todd in the Shadows. I think it is a creator's duty to understand that regardless of how professionally they treat a situation, there are bound to be some bad actors in their audience who will attempt to harass others in their name. It seems to me that all of these creators understood that and made an educated decision to speak out publicly. Had they kept quiet, harm would have continued to be done to the authors and artists who had their work stolen and monetized by someone who did not fairly compensate them (or even acknowledge their existence). With this in mind, I do believe that it is important to have empathy for James as well. I understand feeling hurt, betrayed, and skeptical of the legitimacy of everything he says from this point on, knowing what we know now about how he built his career. I have those feelings myself. They are valid. However, there is no situation in which people should be publicly speculating on the legitimacy of his mental health struggles or celebrating his suffering. I do believe that James knew what he was doing, I believe he knew that he was causing some harm (to what extent he understood that, no one but James can say), and I do believe that it was wrong. At this point, the community does as well. I think the best thing for him would've been to step away from the internet, but at the same time, I understand why he did not. He went from being a fairly popular online queer voice to one of the community's most hated content creators. I imagine there was some whiplash and confusion and that it must've been upsetting and scary. James did not make the right decision in trying to come back and that poor choice was his own, but at the same time, I don't think there's much use in rehashing that to him in the comments of his apology or on Twitter.

I don't think it would've been any better to let his actions fade to complete obscurity, but I also believe that trying to hold him immediately accountable was doomed from the start. If there was a path forward as a content creator, James strayed far from it. Regardless, I think the moral thing to do right now is to treat him with grace and not speculate about his honesty or intentions online. I hesitate to invalidate people's concerns, but regardless, they don't belong in the public sphere at this moment.

Ultimately, I wish James the best. I hope he finds safety, comfort, and happiness going forwards. I also wish hbomberguy & team as well as all the other creators and audience members who spoke to their experiences in good faith all the best. These people are not to blame for James' mental health struggles. If we mean to reduce as much harm as possible, I think the ideal path forwards is show empathy for everyone involved and lay the idea of blame to rest.