#Helluva Boss discussion

[cute-little-fly]

Stolitz is crazy and delusional, and that is precisely its appeal

A defense of Stolitz from a deranged fan.

Hi!! Fly rambling here once again… wohooooo!!

This time I wanted to make this to say a thing that I’ve been feeling since I started in this fandom.

I have stumbled upon posts, videos and specific comments comparing Stolitz with other fictional relationships. Often these comments come from audience or writers, not always, but often, that think about the ship from their perspective, and how they craft their characters and relationships themselves.

Therefore, here I am talking about a deep disconnection between these types of… let’s say critics/audience and us (fans of the show for whom the relationship makes a lot of sense).

I don’t want this post to come off as me thinking I can interpret this better than them, and that is just that they don’t understand. They might have a point. Maybe their opinion comes from an informed place from their perspective.

However… here comes the BUT.

A lot of aspects of Stolitz these writers frame as “mistakes” or “bad writing” in a way they frame as “writing mistakes” are precisely part of the things that made fell in love with Stolitz so much and what make them stand out.

I have found this fascinating…. Because honestly, I think it’s the first time that something like this happens to me with a piece of media. That precisely the things some critics frame as an “mistake” are the things that I find insane, in a cool way, about them.

That they are so crazy, delusional and mentally ill, in a complementary way, makes it somehow compelling. I know I sound crazy. But I will attempt to explain this like a normal person.

Stolas and Blitzø started backwards, from the bedroom to the basic.

They have been inside of each other bodies, but don’t even know what the other eats regularly. They trust each other in BDSM, were you need to have clear boundaries with the other person, but are unable to communicate at a basic level outside of the bedroom.

That their deal was BDSM is often ignored and is important.

BDSM practices involve a lot of trust. The experience from those encounters can be so extreme that you might have moments where you rely completely on the other person. This builds trust. Non spoken trust. (I don’t know much about this, but this is from what I’ve read okay?? So I won’t talk much about it).

I love this moment in Apology tour because you can see how Stolas knows that Blitzø will always catch him if he lets himself fall.

I like how they can hold onto each other in Apology Tour after they have been repeatedly fighting. Also like… How they can find solace between each other, but can be also wounded or mad to the other at the same time.

How they can have this closeness and intimacy almost without realizing, with a complete lack of basic understanding at the same time!!! Like, what do you mean???!!

THIS IS INSANE!!

For me, this is precisely a big part of the appeal.

For me it’s not bad writing that they think they found an opportunity to love in the other, without having gone through basic steps of their relationship like getting to know each other for real. Because their relationship it’s very atypical by design.

They ate dessert before having dinner, but by eating the dessert they developed some connection, and unspoken understanding that meant something. It’s not enough for a relationship yet, but has some meaning. Like.. how often fuckbuddies catch feelings.

Both of them unconsciously were looking something beyond sex, even if Blitzø did it initially *mostly* for the deal. There are context cues that show that he felt something with Stolas the first day they were together, when there wasn’t any deal.

I think that eventually we need to be shown what happened that first night. Something important probably happened, without the deal being in motion yet.

But… I give the critics that there is a lot of delusion here, mostly from Stolas at first, but also from Blitzø’s part. I don’t find this surprising. At all. They don’t have a real image of what healthy and real love is. Have people thought of that? Maybe the only one that has it is Blitzø a little bit, because he sees M&M every day, but still…

It’s natural from the character’s perspective to treat the connection they developed there in that delusional way... even if us, the people of the audience know that you need way more to have a relationship, the characters don’t have our same standards. As they slowly progress in the future they will realize this.

Stolas and Blitzø deep down feel similar things, and the environment they were in made a bridge between them.

This is precisely what ties Stolitz with the social class sub conflict.

They were written to be FOR each other; but, separated because of the barriers created from their trauma and their different understanding of things because of the social class difference. Like… at a very essential level they are the same, but the things around them have put walls between each other.

This is what makes them compelling imo. You can see how they deep down have wounds, feel lonely, are vulnerable loving people that crave connection but the context around them decided they were worlds apart. That it is impossible for them to understand the other. This is something they have even interiorized themselves. Stolas with classism, Blitzø with his trauma and prejudice.

By shattering his classist views and by Blitzø opening his heart, is the way they can reach out. This is also a good thing for both of them that would make them evolve beyond those limitations.

I have seen critics say that they don’t think this is where the show is going… but then, why put so much emphasis on classism and hierarchies? Like, to understand most of the plots and characters we have to think about precisely that. Of course this will also relate to the development of Stolitz.

They both projected a fantasy based on their trauma and hardships

Blitzø projects the fantasy of someone that is so powerful that can’t be hurt by him. Blitzø trauma it’s related to be a bad influence on other people’s lives or someone that makes them worse. If Stolas is a powerful prince, there is no way he can do that... APPARENTLY.

Stolas fantasy is easier to notice. He projects a knight in shining armor that is going to rescue him, because he feels trapped in his life. He sees Blitzø as this guy that can do anything and is like this idealized “sexy rogue assasin” from his books.

This is a formula for disaster. Of course everything was gonna crash down eventually. But, this fantasy projection is not just about their relationship, but about themselves. This is what differentiate this from just oh silly fantasy to compelling story imo.

By breaking the fantasy that Stolas couldn’t be hurt, Blitzø had no option but to open his heart. Stolas took Blitzø’s strength as a beacon to have courage to face Stella and a complete court of demons. This is why this hits.

Which also takes me tooo….

Stolas and Blitzø would grow as people by being together FOR REAL, because they would balance each other’s flaws, and ultimately, they still can find solace in the other, even after seeing the broken shards…

This is why we root for them… even if right now they still don’t have a mutual understanding about the other, the show clearly did well showing the chemistry and connection that will slowly draw them to one another.

Blitzø is resourceful while Stolas is passive and is used to have things lent to him.

Stolas and Blitzø have the opposite issues parenting.

Stolas is on touch with his feelings while Blitzø doesn’t.

Stolas being educated in grammar and Blitzø being good physically.

Blitzø lighten a spark for Stolas to start making decisions for himself, even if that’s the last thing he intended.

Stolas ironically classist view and sheltered limited knowledge about the real world for imps, made him never doubt that Blitzø trying to have a business like that was that unlikely.

He trust Blitzø the book because he saw him capable; but he was also ignorant about how hard is for imps to make businesses.

The thrill of this is how fucking unlikely it is that the circumstances put these two people together, that look so incredibly different but… are actually meant to one another and complementary in their abilities and flaws. Is this likely or realistic? NO… like don’t try this at home PLEASE!!! (LMAO!!).

But why does it have to be realistic to be a good written story? Sometimes unlikely things happen even irl, and this is precisely the thrill.

Like… it’s crazy that even with all the harm they did to the other and how much misunderstanding they have…. Their limitations and everything they still manage to keep this connection alive and they won’t abandon the other in the middle of hardships.

Now… they need to learn how to show that like a regular person… or demon I guess?

Sinsmas is not the right episode to analyze further Stolitz, because all the rest of things going on.

Making that slowly, letting all of that entirely for season 3 instead of forcing that in Sinsmas is a good call imo.

They are starting to put the plates and preparing the meal to finally have that dinner they never had.

Stolitz is NO a major focus here and that’s important. These segments are mostly about Stolas adapting (or frankly… not adapting) to his new condition and life, about Stolas crashing without his meds and usual comforts.

For me, it’s expected that Stolas is not focusing much in learning about imps or Blitzø, since he is without his pills and thinking in Octavia.

Blitzø is also focusing on keeping the guy together after he saved him, only asking the necessary for him to be comfortable. He is also not focusing on romance right now.

He sees that being with Blitzø it’s not the fairy tale he thought, how unreal the fantasy was… BUT at the same time, that he can count on him, that he can be free and whine or express his frustration as much as he pleases without being shut up. That he is more free now.

That there are things of Blitzø he doesn’t know yet and how nice will be to discover that… also… this is important… he is not going to like some of this things. But… if those things make Blitzø be him… he will eventually love him with those too.

If he understood love and if he started to behave like a usual parter or interested person now would, that would take weight of the traumatic situation he just endured AND makes sense with how sheltered he is from reality.

I loved how everything was depicted here, because I’ve had experiences with depression, and all what I saw it’s pretty accurate to how it is. Not pretty. Not sunshine and rainbows.

So… it pulls me off when fans act like they are officially together, or when critics point out flaws that don’t consider all the picture. That it’s not just about Blitzø and Stolas here. Or when they act like Stolas doesn’t love or is interested in Blitzø, where initially he clearly show he was.

That we need to project and think about a lot of things that aren’t explicitly said/shown sometimes… well that could be an objective flaw… but it also makes engaging with it really fun?

I won’t be long on this one… because showing a little more of them interacting was needed. Maybe not just make Blitzø said that Stolas comments on his posts and calls him to just talk but show that.

However, for the other part… personally I like to engage with these sort of stories where you need to dig a little bit more than the surface.

Some people say that if everything it’s not clearly expressed it’s bad done.

For example, how sometimes we use the messages that are shown that Blitzø sent to Stolas in the hospital, and that we need to pause and enlarge to see that context. Twitter posts about the paintings seen in Octavia’s song, that aren’t that detailed in the show itself.

I find this very suitable for a web series, that had its origins on the internet and with no conventional forms of media.

So… here I have a mixed opinion. Which I like how we don’t have everything spelled out and we can have fun digging but also, it would have been nice to be shown a few things that are just implied.

At the end of the day… my objective with this post is to say that the non-conventional nature of this relationship and show it’s what made me so invested, because it ended up making this love story very different to others.

I mean… I kinda like that they don’t follow strict rules of writing sometimes. That everyone can project a lot on them from their perspectives and experiences. Which also leads to some people finding it horrible.

I even wouldn’t think about Stolitz the same if they did the “fixes” some people propose to it. Like… the reason I like it is precisely that it’s a mess, and that we are shown the timeline of the relationship in a non cronological way.

Like… of course it would be sweet and still engaging. Also, more people definitely would get on board with it, or even relate that with their own failed relationships that they looked at with rose tinted glasses… however, the way it is NOW makes other people engage with it as how it is now, even if we are like a bunch of weirdos (no offense ❤️).

I kinda dislike that now everything needs to be so grounded and so realistic…? Like, a situation like this is possible because they are them.

It’s meant to be seen as that this is a super weird and unlikely situation, and that it’s happening in this way and is possible because they are them, because of fate, because of misunderstood self-fulfilling prophecies or whatever.

I can understand not like this kind of stories. But this is not the first story to use this, and I don’t see why that’s… wrong? I can see why some people don’t like it. But not why it’s wrong because of this.

Blitzø and Verosika, for example, were drawn to each other because of their emptiness and loneliness, but weren’t the right person for each other. However, you can also have a super toxic situation where you end up finding something real. This is the difference between these two relationships.

How you could find something special in the middle of a bad situation.

[roodles03]

This is best moment in the entire show. Tbh the best moment in any cartoon I've ever watched.

I cannot explain what feeling I had the moment this happened. I never expected deaf representation in Helluva Boss of all things, but I am so glad it happened.

I immediately got extremely emotional, almost cried. I'm emotional writing this even. It typically takes a while for me to get super emotional in any scene, but this hit me immediately. No media has achieved that.

And I'm not even deaf, and no one I know personally is deaf, yet I still felt this way. I know how important this scene has to be for deaf people. It's... incredible.

[untitledlurkingproject]

S1 Stolas and the Topic of Coercion

Hello! I'm new to Tumblr and just wanted a space to express some feelings I have about Helluva Boss. I've been seeing a lot of discourse/outright anger about "Stolas coercing Blitz," and I wanted to give my two cents. I want to preface by saying that I am a SA survivor, and an adult. Here's my take, and I invite others to share theirs.

The deal between Stolas and Blitz has coercive overtones due to the structure and inherent power imbalance, but it never materializes into actual coercion. We never see Stolas enforce or weaponize the deal.

Blitz is also shown craving the arrangement (especially evident in Truth Seekers and Full Moon), and Blitz does not wear his true emotions on his sleeves (i.e. We see him glaring at Stolas often, but has a soft look in a picture he took of Stolas, while Stolas was asleep.) Blitz constantly says things he doesn't mean, not only to Stolas, but to M&M (calling their relationship "too wholesome for his taste" and "boring af.") His lack of honesty obviously stems from his fear with intimacy, as stated outright in Truth Seekers. He also demonstrates repeatedly that he feels comfortable saying no to sex (Ozzie’s, and lines from Oops). You can't coerce someone into doing something they already want to do and feel comfortable saying no to.

Stolas may hold institutional and magical power, but emotionally and sexually, he hands that power over to Blitz—allowing Blitz to dictate the pace, the tone, and the boundaries of their interactions. ("If that's what you want to play.") That’s where Blitz’s own intentional manipulation comes into play, followed by unintentional ("he can get hurt?") harm.

So, yes, the deal has coercive elements, but Stolas doesn't coerce Blitz. Stolas fundamentally is not a coercive character, and Stolas's good intentions and lack of good communication are why he does away with the deal. Blitz's anger at Ozzie's makes him concerned that Blitz doesn't even like being around him. Stolas's concern becomes, "I thought he liked me for my money and body (and I hoped for more), but if he doesn't like me, then am I just making him have sex with me? That's not fair." He relates that to the only experiences he has, of being stuck in an abusive, arranged marriage. Though Stolas's concerns about Blitz's consent are extremely valid and SO important, the sex obviously wasn't Blitz's issue. Blitz's issue is the belittling and classist comments that make him feel less than and feeds into his insecurities of not being good enough to be with someone like Stolas. It's very obvious that pre-Ozzie's Stolas is not honest about his feelings, and he uses that language since it is normalized in amongst all classes of hell, not just Ars Goetia. (Millie calls Loona "the hellhound" for most of the show. Blitz calls Verosika a "suck-u-bit) He wears that kind of language as he does his expensive regalia, but when he thinks Blitz is taking the relationship to the next step in Ozzie’s, he drops the act. That's why we never see him use those terms like "impish plaything" in Ozzie's or onward. It's clear that he actually does see Blitz as his equal (bowing, "I don't care if you're of lower station," thinking he'll die for Blitz when they exchange places on the chopping block).

Just because a structure has the potential for coercion doesn’t mean coercion is actually taking place.

Those are just my thoughts, and I wanted to hear yours! Do you think my takes are accurate?

[gameguy20100]

Ok. I need to say this because It's going to come up.

Octava's actions were completely understandable in this episode. Now keep in mind I said understandable, not justified.

Do I think she was wrong for jumping to the conclusion Stolas didn't love her and telling him off? Yes.

Do I blame Octavia in anyway for coming to that conclusion? No.

She doesn't have all the facts, she has no idea how terrible the marriage was or how abusive and cruel Stella is. and she's only 17.

I don't want to be agist or sexist, but when have you ever met a teenage girl who didn't act without thinking and let emotional responses win from time to time? They're not known for having foresight.

So yeah, none of this is Octavia's fault. Tbh, I think Stolas shot himself in the talon here by shielding her from how vile Stella is all those years.

If she understood, I don't think she'd have reacted this way. Octavia is reckless, lonely, depressed and vulnerable. but she isn't cruel.

If she realy didn't love Stolas anymore, she'd have let him die.

[iris-draws]

If this doesnt end up being the D.H.O.R.K.S agents I'm actually rioting

[abrisaber]

Okay I actually finished the episode this time and holy shit what a turnaround.

Now this episode isn't perfect, obviously, but to be honest it might be the best of Season 2's character writing. Millie ACTUALLY trying to sympathize with Blitzo and apologize while Blitzo actually tries to get his shit together is just perfect.

It feels SO GOOD to actually have someone in this fucking show who doesn't treat Blitzo like complete shit while also not sucking up to him. Blitzo's self destructive episode is obnoxious and harmful and he is doing damage to the people around him, but he's also deeply, deeply wounded and Millie is mature enough to see that and give him support while also not downplaying what he's doing.

Yes Blitzo is absolutely stepping out of line, but Millie can see WHY he's behaving like that. She can relate to Blitzo because she's also had feelings on inadequacy and she gives Blitzo the support he's always given to her.

Legitimately if you told me that scene and the scene in Full Moon with Stolas were written by the same people, I wouldn't believe you. THIS is how you show Blitzo's bad actions as a response to his emotional trauma hurting people, NOT like that shit in Full Moon where he turns down the love proposal from the privileged asshole that's been sexually harassing him for the entirety of their relationship and can't take no for a fucking answer.

[theadhddimsenion]

Something I have started to wonder about the "anti" and "critical" crowd.

What? If anything did you people believe you are going to accomplish by endlessly going on about how bad both Vivienne and her work are?

I mean you people have put so many works criticizing her work but according to you she hasn't listened to any of you so why keep trying?

Do you actually believe that your "criticisms" are legitimate and that you will be the ones who will "save" both series?

I would think that if you really think it's that bad the I would have thought that you all would have just given up on the series and stopped trying.

Do you think that vivi really is a monster that must be brought down? That she's a sexist, racist, a demon for lack of a word? If so why? Because she had some vague aspects of her charaters that are stereotypical? Because she didn't put enough focus on the female cast for you liking? Because she made a couple of tasteless jokes?

Look I genuinely don't want to start a fight here, but it just Don't see the point of what you all are doing. Why does vivi and her work make you so upset? Do even believe the things you say or do you just do it because it gets you attention? Ether way I could try and understand.

*sigh* look if it makes you all feel better I don't believe either show is flawless, it has some tonal issues, some moments don't get proper build up, not all of the jokes land, some cast members do tend to hog the spotlight but my main question is if I can look past that and see something good why can't you?

[greyscale8]

Not gonna lie, Satan being the ruler of Hell (or whatever darkness there was) before Lucifer fell is such a cool concept. I almost wish he wasn’t full of shit.

Like the concept of someone being relegated to second place by Lucifer of all people would be insulting, especially to him. You just know Satan hates being weaker than or beneath Lucifer, who is a complete goofball. He probably sees Lucifer as weak or pathetic, but doesn’t dare speak up because he rules Hell.

So imagine how much more resentful he’d be if Lucifer, that pathetic excuse for a demon, had taken control of his domain. Might make for an intriguing storyline about an uprising against Lucifer, but if Satan didn’t exist before then I don’t think he’d have probable cause to do so. Just a few thoughts I had

[mightymelancholy]

Question what's your guy's opinion on Verosika? As a concept I like her but as a character she's underutilized and a very petty, b*tch. And I'm not trying to be mean (okay maybe a little) but that's genuinely how she acts in Apology Tour. And something I feel isn't talked about enough is her sexually assaulting Moxxie in Spring Broken. How the show handles serious topics like these is something I won't get to into, but I'm kinda done with the SA of men being played as a "joke".

Anyway my opinion on Verosika is that she doesn't get enough spotlight like the rest of the female characters (Loona, Millie, Octavia, and Stella). I'll make a video on this but I'd like to hear other people's opinions on her.

[ey3dye]

question(s) for my fellow fantasy/worldbuilding obsessed Hellaverse fans:

1: I see that necromancy in media often relies on souls, and since hellborn don't have souls, would raising the dead either be impossible or only require the body of the deceased?

2: Do you think the Deadly Sins have worshippers/devotees in Hell as well as on Earth? We see Stolas has his cultists (who didn't get him his cake btw), but I feel like different rules apply in The Rings. Their system, while still extremely classist, is very modern. We see Bee partying, Mammon capitalizing on every clown in the goddamn solar system, and Ozzie is a factory and business owner; none of them give me "Worshipped Deity" vibes :/

thank you for ur time besties :>

[bag-of-bones-and-hearts]

blitz’s trip

Truth Seekers still pretty peak. wish we had more time with the girls actually talking instead of fighting but boy am i sucker for the animation this ep. i do wish to one day go deeper about blitz’s trip bc god what a interesting visual

because we obviously see his inferiority complex all over the trip and the repeating “your gonna die alone” honestly the whole trip is pretty straight forward. what i find interesting is how everything is grimy. the world the people-sludge. its a good visual on how he sees shit.then theres stolas. who is up in a gilded chair with two shadow versions of blitz himself. as blitz walks closer he gets chained in gold,i think it was supposed to show that blitz feels belittled by stolas(which he is) and even though he pushes everyone away he still clings to the intimacy of stolas(or sex in general) because its the closes thing he feels like he deserves that might be considered.. love even though its unhealthy. hell maybe the shadow blitzs fanning stolas is meant to represent that blitz knows how imps are treated, as slaves or faceless perhaps he fears thats what has become. fuck dude there were so many interesting ways to continue these thoughts why oh why did the next season blow it so hard

EDIT:and the thing is,all this could be continued in the show and still keep the ship Stolitz cannon.i mean the ep ozzie’s had a promising ending.make stolas realize that blitz feels like he’s only a sex toy to him and then make him bloody improve.while he tries to get that crystal thing blitz starts questioning his own issues(his many issues) and make him improve his self worth bc god above stolas nor anybody else can fix that for him.all the extra melodrama doesnt do anything for the actual plot.fuck it keep him loosing his powers in mastermind but make it so stolas admits to the power imbalance and take the blame(then every imp watching could have even more a reason to ostracize him)the hell council wouldn’t even care bout that just that he allowed an imp to use it.then you can use powerless stolas to see in a new perspective and maybe deal with more of his issues(bc he has a lot too) without blitz babying him. make stolas find worth surrounded by the I.M.P

[still-trans-gwender]

"Hazbin/Helluva isn't Bible accurate" mfs when they read The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost or C.S Lewis

[misty-wolf-draws]

Can I be honest with Hellaverse Tumblr for a second?

I'm not ready for the next Helluva Boss episode. Not because I'm nervous about what will happen in it, but because I'm worried about the discourse it could bring.

We already know there's gonna be Stolitz stuff and some angst with Octavia, but after what happened in Mastermind and some opinions being shared that I may or may not agree with, I feel like Sinsmas will just absolutely break the fandom. In a bad way.

I'm still a little excited, don't get me wrong. But for the most part, I'm just scared of how the fandom will clash when we start to see stuff that some people won't like. And I'm scared of being on the wrong side of things when that clash inevitably comes.

[technically-human]

Ay, why won't you love me, Ivo?

[cute-little-fly]

I think that even if you are not very invested in the fandom and the outside information this doesn’t come out of nowhere and makes sense if you think about it.

There is nothing in the worldbuilding that prevent Hellhounds to have powers and alternative forms.

Hellhounds are the more oppressed class… but maybe that’s because they are powerful and the higher ups fear them? Having powerful creatures as servants makes sense. They were made to guard maybe in the earlier Hell.

My theory… imps are the second ones because there are a lot of them. Imagine if these two groups revealed? Imps may not have powers but are muscle, fighters and they are a LOT, and they are what makes Hell function. This may be important if at some point there is a revolution.

Also, a story can be more interesting if there are some revelations that come from time to time. This doesn’t need to be teased. And for me, Loona being a talented user of the Grimoire is teasing that. A lot of people here has wondered why she seems to have talent with it. It may be her own skill, but still, the fact that she can be so skilled maybe is because Hellhounds are kinda powerful. Loona also has a human body disguise.

“There was no foreshadowing!” Bitch ANYONE who watches either of Viv’s shows at this point have heard of the other. If sinners can have different forms, why not hellhounds?

I saw a clip on her patreon (it was a free preview sorta thing I think) where Viv mentioned that hellborn have other forms.

The fact it was on her patreon at all (which is something you EXCLUSIVELY PAY FOR) is clear evidence to me that she isn’t writing this show for whiny pricks like you, she’s writing it for HERSELF and THE FANS first and foremost.

Like I don’t care that shit isn’t super explained in the show or anything. Anyone truly invested in the show (in love or hate) is probably some form of terminally online anyway who’s already read all the damn lore so what’s it matter?

Do you have any idea how many fans REGULARLY make posts sharing said information? If we find something out in this fandom we don’t fucking stay quiet about it.

I feel like Hazbin and Helluva were truly made for the neurodivergent lil freaks in the world, and I’m here for it.

“It makes no seeeeeeennnnssssseeee!!!” Yeah, TO YOU! Because you’re a fucking retard.

Call Viv a shit writer all you want, she must be doing SOMETHING right if she’s still as popular as she is.