#Huntlow fans will go insane

[edalynn]

hii hope you don't mind me asking but why do you hate huntlow?? (genuinely curious) I personaly love the owlhouse and kin hunter and it's one if my favorite ships :0

I was just going to not answer this ask as I feel like I've repeated the many reasons I hate hunt/low in the past, but I realize I've never put it all in one place. I'm going to start by linking some asks or posts of mine that are a smorgasbord of things I or others have pointed out regarding what's wrong with the ship itself for some reference points.

X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X | X

And I'll add my "Hunt/low Trope Bingo Card" that gives us a fun diagram of multiple problematic tropes that Hunt/low falls under

Let me start of with the ship itself. Hunt/low quite literally makes both characters' arcs irrelevant. Willow's entire arc about learning to be confident in herself, overcome her bullying, and be strong for herself and her friends is basically entirely erased when you put her with Hunter. Her whole arc is that for a lack of better words, she saved herself and is her own person. Yes, she had the help of Luz and Gus, and later Amity after they began mending their friendship, but her whole thing was being strong and confident on her own. In concept, giving Willow a pretty boy boyfriend immediately makes her arc less impactful than if she's never paired with anyone in the story, because her story is about her own self growth. Not being saved by having a conventionally attractive boyfriend. And in practice, we actually see it happen. Willow is dumbed down and made insanely out of character in almost the entirety of the third season, particularly in FtF. She's shown multiple times throughout the end of the season (Actually, in S2 as well) needing to be physically saved by Hunter specifically when she's always been shown she can stand up for herself before. And, yes, you could argue that "Willow doesn't always need to be the strong one!", and you'd be right! But the fact that the second she becomes friends with Hunter, the way her character is written changes dramatically. We see her need to be saved over and over, and it is literally only by Hunter. If this wasn't the case, I would agree with that, but unfortunately it's not. Her growth and "revolutionary" strong-on-her-own arc is entirely negated if she is put in a relationship with Hunter.

On the flipside, Hunter's arc is just as equally, if not more, irrelevant. Hunter's arc is also about finding himself and finding a group of people that are his pseudo-family. His growth is his journey to becoming his own person, away from his abusive parental figure. In concept, Hunt/low makes all of Hunter's trauma, abuse, and loss meaningless by falling into the trope of "romantic love heals all", which is both dangerous for young fans who will believe that and a slap in the face for every abuse victim that relate to Hunter. It's like saying that nothing bad he experienced mattered or had any lasting impact, because you give him a strong girlfriend and poof! All the problems go away and are solved! And I shouldn't have to explain why that message is insanely harmful. As with Willow, we see this happen in action as well. Any time there's a nod to Hunt/low in the show, Hunter's trauma immediately doesn't seem to matter. This is shown the clearest when he is literally not allowed to grieve Flapjack's death because it "upsets" Willow and he has to run after her to comfort- and later save- her. The writers actually made it so that Hunter is made to feel guilty for showing sadness about Flap because it made Willow feel like she "can't do anything right", making the entire scene about how he had to save her and put his grieving of Flapjack to the side. I think as an abuse victim, this is the one thing about Hunt/low that makes me the angriest. And to dip my toes into a later point- fan creators that ship Hunt/low also do this in their fanworks. Moringmark is a BIG perpetrator of the Hunter abuse denial rhetoric.

The way they are intended to be written, these two arcs contrast each other, not complement them. It makes no sense for them to be shipped. And further, the context & content we get in the actual show has a staggering lack of depth or intention. Every interaction they have feels out of character and as if their personalities have to be entirely re-worked for them to even interact- and those are just the miniscule amount of times they actually interact. There's almost no actual content for Hunt/low in the show, it's never acknowledged by other characters how they do with Lumity and Raeda, and they literally almost never interact in the show until FtF. There is no logical reason that anyone should assume they were even interested in each other (aside from Hunter's blink-and-you-miss-it blushes) and you could probably count on both hands how many times they actually interacted with each other on screen both before the Day of Unity, and until FtF. And I'd go as far as to say that when they do interact, they barely even act like friends. Willow spends almost the entirety of TtT ignoring Hunter (assumably unintentionally, but they almost never interact and the episode was literally based around Hunter as one of the main characters in it) aside from the hair cutting scene- which contextually made no sense to be done by Willow- and the after-possession scene- also made no sense contextually for him to have his head on Willow's lap. She literally makes fun of him at one point, with Amity being the one to basically say "guys that's mean, Hunter I don't want you to get made fun of by others please change". How does any of that read as a healthy or loving ship? Much less even a friendship. By the time they get to the Human Realm, Willow and Hunter have interacted, what, maybe three times? Once during ASIAS (Where Willow forgives him way faster than she should have for her character, when she literally took months to fully forgive Amity- and Ami didn't kidnap her), Once during LR (Where Willow literally is shown as not caring, liking, or trusting Hunter until he says something that proves he was with Gus), and then on the mission with Luz & co. to rescue Amity leading to the Day of Unity. The ship both in context & in practice completely obliterate not only both characters' arcs as stated above, but also wreck their personalities, making them every other generic girl and boy in a generic m/f ship.

Moving onto the fandom in relation to Hunt/low. Let me set the scene. This show, The Owl House, in and of itself is for a Queer audience. That doesn't mean cishet people cannot enjoy it, but it is a silent "stay in your lane". TOH was REVOLUTIONARY for Queer mainstream media with the main character being the first main character on an animated show by Disney to be openly Queer. Luz is openly bisexual and has a girlfriend! She comes out to her mom! Her adoptive mother, one of the other 3 main characters, ends up in a canon relationship with her Highschool Sweetheart, a nonbinary person, and is ALSO openly bisexual! So why is Hunt/low treated as if it is the "third main ship" on TOH, when it ISN'T EVEN CANON. Why is it treated as if it's on the same level as Lumity and Raeda!? Why are there fanartists and other creators that ONLY draw or write Hunt/low!? It's insulting honestly! And I, as a queer person, am being so dead serious. it's fucking insulting. And the way Hunt/low shippers treat people that don't ship it is disgusting. Their go-to defense tends to be "Crying Wolf", or claiming any kind of "-phobia" they can to make their ship seem "more valid". You have no idea the amount of times I and my mutuals have been called "biphobic" or "fatphobic" or any number of other insults. When more often than not, It's Hunt/low shippers that I see ignoring Hunter's bisexuality, or worse, disparaging people for shipping Hunter in a mlm relationship. Or worse- saying certain ships (Huntric/Goldric) are inc/estuous because of Aladarius, which also is not even canon (And neither is "Dadrius" while I'm at it, but that's a totally different argument for a different day.). I see them use his bisexuality as fodder constantly. And I won't even mention the mischaracterization by every single Hunt/low fan I've ever seen, making Willow anywhere from Girlboss to Tradwife or Mom Girlfriend, and Hunter from Malewife to Wet Cat to Protector Boyfriend.

The crew also did not help the situation at all. Multiple Storyboard artists or other crew members have openly admitted to attempting to (or succeeding to) force Hunt/low into the storyline, always at the scolding of Dana who would make them remove it or tone it down as it didn't fit her vision of the show. I've seen multiple crewmembers say this- it's not just a one off thing. Or the crew member who once said she didn't care that the ship name "Winter" (the crew's ship name for Hunt/low) made it hard to block/tag because she liked how it sounded. It's just. I've seen so many instances of Dana's crew being that disrespectful to her and attempting to push their own personal feelings and ideas into the show against her wishes.

I could probably go on forever, so I'll stop here. But yeah. That's the basics of why Hunt/low is a shitty, harmful ship.

[n7spongy]

My Problem With How We View Shipping

Or: A cynical loser rants about how fictional people get more action than him.

Don’t get me wrong, I quite enjoy shipping. I’ve seen so much wonderful fanart, fanfics, and other fan-related pieces of media that result from the passion we insane fans have over our beloved characters. However, I think there’s a component to our obsession that makes us vulnerable to the harsh realities of romance. Obviously I’m sure you all know romance in fiction is nothing like in real-life, but that doesn’t mean you know that subconsciously and act like it’s true.

It’s just...I see this all the time. Many people I know in fandom circles who obsess over these fictional characters take real-life heartbreak so hard, and while I don’t want to blame their media obsessions for that, I think this is something both fans and shows would do well to remember:

Shipping is an idealized form of romance.

Take the Willow x Hunter ship (Huntlow) from The Owl House. It’s cute! It’s really cute! But the way we make it out to be is...too cute, and it’s indicative of how the Owl House fandom in particular feels this incredible ache to ship everyone with everyone. Just search any of MoringMark’s fancomics about them. They’re all so perfect and happy and optimistic. Hunter will always be dumb and awkward in his attempts to flirt but Willow will fall for him anyway.

I wish real life was that way.

This never happens. There’s never that perfect girl, that perfect situation of circumstances that leads two wonderful people into each other’s arms, finally feeling complete in the embrace of each other. Well, there *could* be, but the odds of that are so slim it’s best to act like there isn’t. We need to harden our shells, and accept the harsh truth:

Rejection happens, and it happens a lot. But that’s okay.

Hardly anyone succeeds on their first attempt, or their second, or their third. I’ve personally failed at least a dozen times. More than we like to admit, we’ve all ended up like Dipper over there, sitting alone in a world that goes on without our happiness. Everyone who’s ever gotten far on a path had to fail to know where that path even was.

So many times in our favorite shows, movies, games, books, etc. characters will succeed on their first or second attempt, and so it’s conditioned us to see that as the baseline for romance. I know this because that’s how I was. So many times in high school and college I met what I thought was the “perfect girl”. I found so many people I had everything in common with, who checked off all my boxes, who stimulated me in so many wonderful ways, and we had great friendships. Our friendships were *exactly* like what I saw on-screen: Star and Marco, Luz and Amity, Peter Parker and Mary Jane. But that never guaranteed anything. I was always rejected in the end.

I bring this up because, again, I see this same attitude all around me. I see it on the Reddit posts in how we squeal over tiny signs that a character is into another, when that could easily be a sign of a strong friendship (TV is often terrible at differentiating best friends of opposite sexes from romance). I see it on Discord from the text walls people write over which ship is going to happen. I see it on Tumblr with the angsty fanart we make over two lovestruck individuals venting their deepest emotions to each other only to finally confess and embrace. I see it on AO3, Fanfiction.net, and Wattpad with those same types of fanart in textual form.

Please know I am not criticizing any of these ways we show our passion, I’m just asking that when we do them, we consider how we may be affecting our thought processes. We can invest ourselves too much in these ships, and thus expect real romance to be the same. This makes us cynical, it makes us blame ourselves when things don’t go our way in reality. And thus, we escape further into fiction, into stories with people who just *get it right* somehow. That only increases the pain in a negative feedback loop. “Why can’t I be like Luz with Amity?” Because a writer’s room all gathered together to write a compelling story, and that’s not how reality is determined. It’s determined by how much we’re willing to fail to eventually succeed.

But its not entirely our fault, its partially the media we consume to blame. I appreciate Gravity Falls to show the realities of being rejected, and the need to stay strong and move on. I think other shows should normalize rejection and failure, not just in shipping, but in all aspects of life. Media is at its best when it inspires, and in our lives when failure is so common, I think this same media, which has raised so much of us, has a responsibility to teach us right. We should be better equipped to deal with heartbreak than those who aren’t in fandoms. It will allow us to fully appreciate when a relationship does succeed, both in fiction and in real life.

You will succeed, if you accept that you will fail first. Never stop trying.

“I’ve been so miserable since Wendy broke up with me that I thought my life was over. But you were right, I just needed to move on...” - Robbie

[piplupod]

toh spoilers:

just finished the new episode and im going insane fjdskl why is everyone saying huntlow is canon?? its literally not??? theyre still easily just friends???

very relieved tbh bc that would've been such lazy writing (huntlow is ... a bad ship imo sorry fsjdkl it just would genuinely be lazy writing and doesn't work well) and i mean the writing rn is ... not my favourite, im not a fan of the whole will-they-won't-they thing they've got going on, but I understand why its there. however that does make me think that it's more likely theyre going to go in a "they will not" direction and the writers are waiting until the last episode so that huntlow shippers don't blow a gasket and abandon the show (some of the hl shippers are wild from what i've seen fdsjkl)

idk! good episode! also i thought i got spoilered on what luz's palisman was going to be and it turns out i actually didnt so im really happy about that too!!

also i can go into why i think it's a bad ship if anyone is curious fdsjkl mostly its to do w the characterization and traumas that the two characters have and the cop-out of "relationships fix people :)" style of relationships in media that gets very tiring to see esp as a trauma survivor myself fdsjkl. like if it gets canonized i will still watch bc i can deal with it but it is just... disappointing to see that trope so often idk

[the-resurrection-3d]

for the shipping meme, i want to hear about your favorite and least favorite TOH ships (for a definition of 'favorite' that means 'compelling and interesting to think/write about', not necessarily you know like 'relationship goals') (either canon or fanon ships)

Well, I've written about Wittecest twice, so I feel like I have to do that one --

By "need to this to be canon" I mean "basically is canon in my mind already." I mean, c'mon. You know and I know that you know. Wittecest is odd to me because I don't really think of it as something I ship, but something that happened -- i.e., I don't really sit around thinking of date scenarios (however dysfunctional) or writing out domestic fluff. GoldenEmp is basically in the same vein; I'm sure it happened and I like dissecting what I think happened with friends, but it's not really ship-fodder in the same way Ni[CAR GOING BY] is. That's definitely at odds with your definition of ship -- I think for me, when I think of something I ship, I think of something that maybe doesn't work now, but I want to explore why it doesn't and how, in another world, it maybe could. With things like Wittecest or EmpGold, the incest is so foundational that you can't really remove it, you know? A version that works seems like it's just missing the point.

The other ship I've written is Amity/Luz/Hunter, though privately I basically make Hunter the ship bicycle. So I'm a fan of pretty much all Hunter/The GANG ships, though I stick to Dana's take that Amity is a lesbian and see Amity more as a friend to Hunter and curious bystander. So Gus/Hunter, Huntlow, all that are also included in here:

Wait which one should be canon? Yes. And yes I understand the irony of Gus and Hunter having an age difference that's just one year below Nickberto's. But have you considered Gus having a huge crush on Hunter and Hunter being insanely uncomfortable because he thinks he's somehow going to hurt Gus/has groomed him into it? See the vision.

Far as least favorite, I don't really have any of those, because I just don't really care enough. Most "huh???" ships are pretty clearly just for porn, which is easy enough to ignore. Edric/Hunter gives me bad Voltron flashbacks with people editing them over Lumity screenshots but other than that I don't care.

[ottisbuns]

uhhhh toh, raeda, and thennnnnn caleb

Ok wow this was a lot and ended up taking a hot minute, but anyways

001 | The Owl House:

Favorite character: Luz Noceda, I am a basic "Main Character Enjoyer" bitch like that

Least Favorite character: This is hard because all of the characters are so good in their intended role, but if I had to pick the one that I dislike the most as like, a person? Tibbles. The only thing worse than a Genocidal Maniac Tyrant is a capitalist.

5 Favorite ships (canon or non-canon): Help me I have too many ships I like. I am a serial multi/poly crackshipper. Saying Lumity and Raeda feel like cheating, so I will be giving my top five crackships/rarepairs, in no particular order. Camilraedarius, Skara/Luz, Emira/Viney, Skara/Viney and Skara/Boscha.

Character I find most attractive: Probably Emira, for reasons that will become evident soon.

Character I would marry: Oh this is a tough one... most characters are either significantly older or significantly younger than me so picking one feels weird... Hooty will treat me right, I just know it.

Character I would be best friends with: Luz. We could bond over being neurodivergent and enjoying fanfiction and shipping.

a random thought: Emira's hair gives me gender envy

An unpopular opinion: The entire show should be replaced with Lumity screentime Honestly my opinions are pretty basic, and I'm also really bad at knowing what opinions are unpopular, but the one opinion I could see getting me crucified is that I don't have that strong an opinion on Huntlow? I see its value as a ship, but I don't have strong personal feelings on it.

My Canon OTP: LUMITY. They're the whole reason I even got into this show.

My Non-canon OTP OT5: Ok, listen, hear me out here because I'm about to sound completely insane, but Luz/Amity/Willow/Skara/Boscha. I realize this doesn't make me seem less insane but I had to get it off my chest. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Most Badass Character: Amity, her fight scenes are amazing.

Most Epic Villain: Kikimora Belos told her to go find a hole to die in, and she did. Truly the most henchperson of all time.

Pairing I am not a fan of: Picking from actually semi-prevalent ships, probably Boschlow? I'll still devour fanfiction about it given the option, but especially in canon I don't think it works.

Character I feel the writers screwed up (in one way or another): The Writers? None. Disney by shortening the show? The Covenheads.

Favourite Friendship: Luz and Hunter, though they're more like siblings so does it still count?

Character I most identify with: S3 Luz

Character I wish I could be: EMIRA GIVE ME YOUR HAIR I WANT IT

002 | Raeda:

When I started shipping them: I have very few memories of my early time in the fandom, which was quite late, so basically for as long as I can remember

My thoughts: That one screenshot of Raine bridal carrying Eda with That Expression™... yeah...

What makes me happy about them: How they were so in sync even as kids and stuck together for so long until...

What makes me sad about them: ...they were torn apart by the curse.

Things done in fanfic that annoys me: I know a lot of them were written before we even knew Raine existed, but Camileda fanfiction where Raine isn't acknowledged still bothers me.

Things I look for in fanfic: Established Raeda is always fun in AUs, bonus points if it's Camilraeda and they are all raising Luz, Vee and King.

My wishlist: NOW KISS

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: Frequently bought together DO NOT SEPARATE! but I guess if I have to then Camila for Eda and I guess I could see Darius for Raine?

My happily ever after for them: They get married and help take care of Luz and Hunter with Camila.

003 | Caleb:

How I feel about this character: He wife guyed too close to the sun and it's still haunting the narrative. Iconic.

Any/all the people I ship romantically with this character: His wife Evelyn, duh.

My favorite non-romantic relationship for this character: His connection to Hunter, if you can call that a relationship.

My unpopular opinion about this character: I'm not super interested in like a flashback to his time in Connecticut to be honest, I'd enjoy seeing more of his time and relationship with Evelyn, but his time in Gravesfield isn't that compelling to me

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: One thing I think could have some really neat potential is if he somehow could have a heart-to-heart with Hunter. I think that could be fascinating.

Favorite friendship for this character: I mean, there aren't exactly a lot of options but I think he and Luz could be great friends.

My crossover ship: Caleb X Not Dying

[chaoticcerise]

I guess two of your OTPs based on your Amphibia OTP!

Marcanne: Willuz and Skarlow. You're a huge fan of cinnamon rolls and who deserves a cinnamon roll more than their best friend? As a general rule your ships may not always be the most popular ships anymore, but they're very cute, have a lot of chemistry, and are among the first introduced so you have a lot of content, at least in the first season or two.

Sashanne: Catradora and Winter/Huntlow

You love a good reconciliation (friends to enemies to lovers) ship, and honestly I don't blame you. It's a good dynamic and makes for great angst fanfiction. Your ships might not be the most popular, but their fanbases are extremely dedicated and you're no exception.

Sasharcy: Lumity and Bubbleline

All I can say is that you have insanely good taste in ships and also more than a little trauma that you channel into creativity. You have a good eye and can spot ships as soon as they're introduced. Your ships are are great for hurt/comfort which is good because it's your favorite genre. Your ships are usually either canon or so popular (and for good reason) that they might as well be, and they're insanely cute. You also have a thing for smart chick x girlboss ships and cinnamon roll x spicy cinnamon roll ships. Unfortunately they tend to get WAY less screentime than they deserve, but there's ton of fanart and fanfiction of them. Seriously though usually your ships don't get nearly enough screentime and you're allowed to be sad about that, just remember that they're still together and likely will be until the end of time.

Sprivy : Spinnetossa and Korrasami

You ADORE fluff. You like ships that are introduced early in the series, it doesn't matter that they don't get much screentime early on because they work so well as a couple that they have very few relationship problems and have tons of content later on as well as one being a massive comfort character for you. You're absolutely right in saying that your ships deserve their own spinoff series and you should say it.

Yulivia: Alphyne and Harlivy

You love ships where one of them is slightly unhinged, and the other one is usually the voice of reason but also has some secrets of their own. Honestly kinda a mixed bag but almost always sapphic ships. You're generally into darker stuff with sapphic relationships, and you're most likely traumatized in some way. You probably also ship Sasharcy, in which case, please take care of yourself because you're DEFINITELY a traumatized Marcy kinnie and you've been through a lot.

Golden Oldies (Hop Pop x Sylvia Sundew): Gomez&Morticia Addams and WandaVision

You love a good healthy m/f ship, but unfortunately there's not many that meet your standards. DON'T LOWER THEM. There ARE good m/f ships out there, and they are adorable. You probably love older shows before they added all the unnecessary junk like lying and cheating to the m/f couples, like the Addams Family, I Love Lucy, etc. A newer media for you that I'd recommend is the How to Train your Dragon movies and shows, because you are going to LOVE hicstrid. Stay strong and remember that there will be more healthy m/f representation.

Grimepop: Rarepairs and Pocket Ships

You adore Rarepairs and Pocket Ships, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. Fortunately this is Tumblr and Rarepairs thrive here, I don't really have much to say except for drawing and writing fanfiction will be your best friends.

Sashannarcy: Bumblebee and CaitVi

Your OTPs are GOD TIER, and the entire fandom knows it. There might be a few crazies who don't like your ships because homophobia, but as a general rule, your ships always win the shipping wars, if they even happen in your fandoms besides the aforementioned crazies. You're a great person and most likely polyamorous, because why fight over something (or someone) that can easily be shared?

[artical3237]

In the new episode, Luz dons an outfit that reminds me of Phillip, wears a ponytail like Phillip, says “Crikey”, and then at the end is taken to Belos.. I think I’m gonna go insane waiting for the next episode and season 3. 

[piplupod]

i was super into my hero (bnha) before like a couple years ago (watched during the time when s3 came out) and i honestly dont watch it anymore only bc the fandom gets memed upon and theyre known to be cringey. also theyre known to heavily ship deku/kacchan/todoroki only with each other and if any of them is shipped with a girl the person gets so many hate comments...imo i think its just the fandoms bad rep for the show

thats so fhsdgsdgjkl... man. wild. i mean a lot of fandoms have weird shipping things, like god forbid anyone dislike the huntlow (hunter/willow) ship in toh or they'll get accused of being fatphobic/racist/biphobic (it's just. not a good ship. its really not that deep fdsfjkl its just an unhealthy dynamic imo). like i think ppl need to calm tf down about shipping (unless ofc its like really nasty shit but even then i'm not going to send hate anons or comments to ppl bc i know theres no changing their minds fdsjkl i have better things to do than engage in shipping discourse, and theres better ways of dealing with that sort of fucked up shit than yelling at ppl online ig)

but also its weird to me that like... in this case the show gets a bad rep just because of the fandom. like undertale has some really fucked up cringe fandom too but no one is blaming the game for that?? maybe this is a bad comparison idk but undertale has ppl shipping sans w himself or sans w his brother or papyrus w himself etc, and everyone just knows those specific FANS are shitty and weird, not that the game itself is shitty and weird. so i'm not sure why this show is getting a different treatment (maybe bc its an anime?? maybe bc it had sexualization of minors?? idk)

that does make me feel slightly less worried though, thank u fsjkl. i've been picking apart the show to an intense degree trying to find any hints of like... racism, antisemitism, pedophilia, etc to try to find something big enough worth it being so hated, and i have been going a little insane bc im not finding anything massive and i feel like i must be missing something and that i'm a morally reprehensible person for watching and enjoying the show fdsjfkl, so it is somewhat relieving to hear that it is mostly just the fandom then that gives the show a bad name. i'll obviously keep looking but i'll try to just let myself enjoy it a bit more bc i do genuinely enjoy the show so far! i'll just stick my own little corner as usual to have fun in and keep out of the larger fandom spaces, since they don't really appeal to me anyways fdjskl