#I wanna see other people's theories on it

[realbylershit]

Alright so it’s safe to say that someone is shouting for Steve to run away from something and the first instinct is to be worried for Steve because he would definitely pull the sacrifice play if he had to…but personally I’m a little bit more worried about Robin (or both of them)..let me explain why.

We know Will is there, a source claimed that in fact ‘everyone’ is. But we also know that Millie isn’t, as a picture of her not being on set right now came up. So it’s safe to say that we most likely have a big portion of the cast around during the shoot and not the entire cast.

In the first recording it was pointed out that someone could have been yelling out Mike’s name instead of the first “Steve!” and whereas that’s personal interpretation I can definitely hear it. And I can also hear Will’s voice out of that. Makes sense, right? Will shouting Mike’s name? That would just mean that Mike is present, too. We knew that he and Will would be attached to the hip in season 5 thanks to the foreshadowing in season 4. And we confirmed that there is someone else that will at some point team up with both of them.

Dum dum dum, Robin.

I personally believe it’s only Will shouting but regardless of you believe it to be and who it actuallyis (Dustin or Jonathan perhaps), they’re telling Steve to run, which means that Steve most likely refuses to leave the battle field.

To point another thing out about the video, I also believe that we can hear Steve himself at the very beginning of the recording and he sounds kind of desperate, in my opinion. If I’m not completely crazy I’m pretty sure I can hear a “Let her go!”

So what I’m trying to say is, what if Vecna has Robin and Steve refuses to leave her side and that’s when himself is targeted, which we can hear in the second recording.

I can’t add the video but Maya Hawke has recently talked about Robin’s arc in season 5 and stated that she’s more involved in the supernatural stuff than ever and finding friends and looking for love.

I find it really hard to believe that they are going to kill off Steve, Dustin’s second father/big brother figure after doing it to Eddie in season 4. I’m pretty sure they introduced him so they didn’t have to kill Steve. Besides, Steve means a lot to most people in the group whereas Robin is probably the least connected person as she’s the newest, meaning that her death would hit everyone, but it wouldn’t break them like Steve’s death would- except for Steve himself.

It’s clear to me and probably most people that Will is going to suffer plenty next season and him making friends with Robin and then losing her to Vecna right away would definitely hit home. And because he already lost Robin, he doesn’t want to lose Steve too.

Just another small theory I wanna throw into the mix:

Will shouting for everyone to run reminds of him telling Joyce to run through the lights in season 1. Despite being in the upside down, he found a way to help Joyce by telling her to run. I’m thinking that in this scenario Vecna might have him trapped somehow, in a way that results him being cut off from the others in some way that they can’t hear him? As in basically torturing him because he can’t help his friends out, who possibly don’t see Vecna coming, and has to watch them die. That at least would explain even more why he’s the one yelling…

[luciuscaelus]

I wanna share my theory of No Longer You with y’all. (This would be part one. And the post may get a bit long I’m sorry)

First, let me ask you a question (which has been asked a lot): had Teiresias really helped Odysseus?

I want to make a little analysis before I put my conclusion here.

From Odysseus’s POV, every word that Teiresias had just said is against him: Teiresias said, “There is a world where I help you get home, but that’s not a world I know.” Then Odysseus replied with a “What™️?” (Ok, think about it: Circe asked him to there might be a way to evade him, there might be a way to get home.” And she instructed him to visit Teiresias, and now Teiresias told him that he’s not gonna help him? Odysseus was having a hard time accepting the truth.) Then Teiresias related to him all these things he saw, (and remember we’re look at it in Odysseus’s POV), and it’s bombarding Odysseus so hard, that it goes like this: “your romance is past; your men is sacrificed (it’s singular nevertheless); you’ve been (or will be) betrayed time and again; your brother is dead (Polites); you’re on the brink of death; and then you died; a man gets to make it home alive, but it’s not you.”

This is why Odysseus replied, “This can’t be. We’ve suffered and sailed through the toughest of hells and you tell us our efforts for nothing?” (It’s like, “Impossible. You’re telling me that everything we’ve done is meaningless cuz in the end it’s only a man who’ll make it home, and he’s not even me???”)

Teiresias continued, (the following is still in Odysseus’s POV) “Your palace is covered in red—your royalties are all dead; the dead people are men who believe you’re long dead—they’re dear to you, and now they’re all dead; your wife is with someone who’s haunting her, someone who has killed all of those people—he’s gonna take possession of her.”

Odysseus can no longer suppress his anger, “WHOOOOOO?!”

And Teiresias repeated his words again, making Odysseus think that everything is ruined. This is why Odysseus is spiraling, cuz he’s having such a turmoil, and an urge to avoid this kind of future at all costs, with whatever it takes.

But we see things a bit differently.

We see the song of past romance as their long waited reunion; we see the sacrifice of man as a price for him to get home; we see the betrayal as the weakness of his crew that led them to their own destruction; we see him dying but know that he’s not going to die on his way home; we see a man who gets home alive but no longer him cuz he has changed (and a little reference to his disguise). We knows that Teiresias was telling the truth, but from another perspective. We know that it’s him who’ll slaughter the suitors and leave his palace covered in red; we know that the men who had long believed he’s dead are those suitors who woo the presumed “widow” of Odysseus, and we know that the man who is haunting, the man with a trail of bodies, is none other than Odysseus himself.

We know Teiresias was trying to warn Odysseus about his changes, and Odysseus misunderstood him.

Odysseus tried to prevent everything from happening, as the meme goes, “Someone is going to do the killing. I’ll ensure that someone is me.”

So Odysseus continued to change, precisely one song later, and he finally became the one in Teiresias’s vision.

And everything did happen according to Teiresias’s visions.

He tried to avoid the inevitable, but it’s he who makes the inevitable happen, though not precisely as he thought it would be.

It’s nothing someone else who would do the killing. It’s himself all along. Everything is directed towards himself.

Yep, see the pattern here? It’s a topic so well known that no one could’ve missed it in their mythological reading. It’s about fate.

As in one of the most famous literature works, Oedipus Rex.

A work which also involves the appearance of a man, who was none other than Teiresias.

You see, Teiresias was trying to warn Oedipus that he would find the criminal in himself, that he himself was the murderer he’s looking for. Oedipus tried to denied the words, tried to inflict all these curses upon the murderer he sought, but in the end, it was all directed towards himself.

And as audience (readers to be exact), we know that Teiresias was telling the truth for the entire time.

The Teiresias in Epic the musical isn’t the Teiresias in the Odyssey. It’s the Teiresias in Oedipus Rex.

Now, let’s answer the question. Had Teiresias truly helped Odysseus? Yes, from a certain point of view. Teiresias was the catalyst that makes Odysseus reconsider his own actions, and eventually become the “monster”, to fulfill the prophecy of “no longer you”. As in Oedipus Rex, Teiresias’s hints had led Oedipus to a research on his own past, and eventually discovered that he was the murderer, who had fulfilled the prophecy of the family of Laius.

This parallel is, in my opinion, what makes Epic!Teiresias even more fantastic than Odyssey!Teiresias.

[shysquiggles]

Hi there! Why do you think Aziraphale said "I forgive you" right after their kiss ended? Do you think he was referring to the very act of kissing, i.e. forgiving Crowley for kissing him without his consent? Or did it include a more general conotation, forgiving him for what he said, his general thoughts and behaviour?

Okay, there's a lot to ramble about here, and I think its a ramble because I'm not 100% sold on my own thinking. There's a lot of ways to interpret it (one laying into Aziraphale trying to tap into thje fact that Crowley believes he is 'unforgivable' and so using this to try and resolve things) but I do think it could go another way:

Considering this isn't the first time Aziraphale has used "I forgive you" to respond to Crowley, I'm sure it's basically these gays don't know how to communicate (again).

One of Aziraphale's issues is that, while he is very good at forgiving. he really isn't good at resolving personal emotional conflict. I don't mean all conflict -when there's an issue that the two of them are working to solve together (The apocalypse, Gabriel turning up at the bookshop), they work brilliantly. But the conflict I mean is talking about personal disagreements.

When you are faced with a disagreement from a person you care about, its good to talk things out and try to get both of your feelings on the table. You talk, and then you search for a compromise and a resolution. And at times, for a lot of relationships, things can be said that hurt. It takes time to figure things out, and it can take moments of needing to think. But, you do have to face the bumps in order to move forward and to avoid your relationship from falling apart

Here are the two situations that lead to "I forgive you".

The first season, Crowley was exasperated trying to convince Aziraphale to go with him to Alpha Centauri, but still holding his connections to heaven Aziraphale rejects it. Crowley says, "you're so clever, how can someone so clever be so stupid."

The second season, the two of them couldn't reach a compromised solution and, in a clearly agonised overly emotional kiss (truly trying to express everything going on in his head and heart) Crowley is, once again, making an attempt to convince Aziraphale to stay with him. Before that kiss, Crowley said, "you idiot. We could have been 'us'". He also, fully outright rejected the idea of them going to heaven together.

The two of them, despite regular teasing, hold a high opinion of the other. They are a little unit, and they do have each others backs. They protect one another. Receiving an insult (a genuine comment that hurts or something that may feel like an emotionally-driven act) from a person you hold that dear can really hurt.

Crowley used the words "idiot" and "stupid". Plus, clearly, that kiss left Aziraphale in a state of shock and overwhelm. There were a LOT of emotions coarsing through him at that moment, and you can see him trying desperately to work his way through them as quickly as possible. Ideally, they would give each other time to figure things out. This is the most confrontation they've possibly ever had with one another and it's a lot to process. It's also terrifying that the person you care for most in this world can cause such high amounts of emotion.

But even with all those conflicting feelings, there's one thing that Aziraphale is good at: forgiveness. Even when he thought Crowley was about to kill Job's kids, he said 'may God forgive you'. It's how he handles those bigger emotions. How he handles shame, or guilt, or how he handles a strong difference of opinion

Another way to look at Aziraphale's choice to give Crowley forgiveness in this scenario, is like when someone uses the word "sorry" all the time to fix a conflict or an argument. It's used to swiftly resolve the issue and try to get your relationship back on good terms. But, with time, if the issues don't get resolved or addressed, those sorry's soon lose their meaning and you struggle to forgive and forget. You don't fully address the issue, and you're left still feeling irritated and unsatisfied. Eventually, you probably give up.

Have you ever heard the phrase "sometimes sorry isn't good enough"? Well, maybe the same could be said for forgiveness. Sometimes forgive and forget leaves you stagnant in your situation. And I think that Crowley has heard forgiveness from Aziraphale over and over and over. He's given out his fair share of sorry's, and it's been met with forgiveness. But so has everyone else -he even seems to have forgiven Gabriel who was emotionally abusive to the next level. Aziraphale's forgiveness, being offered to everyone, has less meaning now. Even if, in this last occasion, it meant so much more than the others.

It takes a strong heart to forgive in the heat of the moment, and I'm more than certain it was said out of that. To forgive, despite feeling so much pain and strong emotions from Crowley's actions, is a real show of heart courage and strength. And I do think that this 'forgiveness 'does mean so much more than the others (e.g. compared to Maggie's rent). But from Crowley's pov, it may be hard to see that.

For many of us, the default of wanting to patch it up and make it better is "sorry". For Aziraphale, it's the other end of it: forgiveness. But offering forgiveness after a heated moment like that kiss, rather than talking about it, is stubbornly separating yourself from the conflict, not resolving it.

I'm convinced that Aziraphale didn't want that to make Crowley leave. The little 'no' he mouth's as Crowley walks out clearly means he wanted the other to stay, that he didn't want them to separate. But Crowley doesn't want forgiveness. And like saying sorry, all that saying "I forgive you" did is just end the discussion.

Or I don't know, maybe he was just forgiving him for them breaking up idk my brain hurts from this show I swear

[snekdood]

so uh

for 1. most people are gonna take advantage of black friday and wont see your specific niche tumblr post, I hate to say it

2. the us isnt running out of money for war any time soon, so...

3. this is just antisemitism???????? all we need is some (((echoes))) around the us and israel and then I'd have no reason to suspect otherwise from op...............

[shepscapades]

I realized that we don't know when the events of the song sequence occur in the story. It could be Xisuma, either because of his helmet or he got a scar because his helmet broke. Or it could be someone else who got a scar later on. Hmmm.

. (thoughts in tags!)

[dollypopup]

y'all can all cancel me (again) for this, but if there's even a SHRED of 'who should I pick?' from Penelope in season 3, I am tuning out SO fast because like. . .sorry not sorry, there IS no choice. Debling is some crusty OC suitor she barely even knows and Colin is a man who she has been so supposedly in love with to the point where she'd ruin her entire family's reputation to have a potential love story with him. Penelope and Colin have background, years of knowing each other, intimacy that few people in the Ton can boast of having (letters, conversations about purpose, fights and arguments and makeups) and her and Debling have. . .a dance or two at a ball because he's a rebound for Penelope's broken heart. he means nothing. he has no nuance, he has no weight to the story, he is such an afterthought to me. either I wanna see Penelope going 'you know what? I don't even LIKE this dude. he's. . .fine, but I don't care about him even a shred as much as I care about Colin' or the INSTANT Colin's like 'you know what? we should get married' if it's not an immediate 'say less, you're already my husband, try returning me without the receipt, Debling whomst?' then I don't want it!

like. . .it's just so frustrating to see all the 'I hope Debling sweeps her off her feet and she rejects Colin's proposal and she makes him work for it and and and-' nonsense from the fandom and it's always tagged and no matter how many times I block it, it just keeps popping up. I go into the Polin tag for POLIN. I don't give a SHIT about a male love interest other than Colin. Not one. Not a shred. Not an iota.

and also. . .Debling has the 'benefit' of not having depth, or character traits, or HISTORY, so peeps can project onto him however they want, but I'm calling it now, there is NOTHING he could do or be that would make me like him more than Colin. Colin will always hit different, and I will always love him more. and if Pen's not on that same page? lol bye

you want me to believe Penelope and Colin are soulmates and it's romance for her to hem and haw about how difficult a decision it is for her to marry a stranger who knows barely anything about her. . .

when Marina was out here dropping banger lines like 'You were the only man with which I could see myself being happy' and 'I do not care about any of these men, where is Colin?'? like hello??? and she wasn't even fully in love with him!!!! but we'll demonize her until the cows come home in our fandom and make her the villain in Polin's love story for DARING to get in between Polin, yet Debling, a white man, is a darling dear perfect prince for getting in between Polin? existing in our fandom solely so Penelope can be like 'lol, Colin ain't shit, let me entertain any and everyone else'?

if that's the direction it goes then, ten toes down and on my mama, she doesn't deserve Colin and she can move because I'm on my way to court him my damn self

and that's that on that

[arikihalloween]

What if I started randomly reblogging the post with lore that people missed ?

[redstrewn]

Part of me is team "leander is like that to everyone" bc he also plans to recruit MC into his Bloodhounds in the future ("not yet"). Despite knowing the Bloodhounds for years he isn't close to them. Makes me think he ups the charm and seduction to anyone who may be of use to him to get them to pledge their allegiance.

[neverbeforeandneversince]

do you ever… appreciate other people’s intellect but just want to experience songs without a preconceived meaning?

[sparkles-oflight]

He went to the same bar every afternoon. Sat down, asked for water and just looked at the small boy who worked there. He did that for a couple of weeks: order water, say nothing and looked at him.

The other boy one day asked him.

Who are you and what do you want?

I saw you singing once and I wanted to start a band, would you like to join?

Uhm, no. I'm am in my own band.

The first boy convinced the second somehow and that's how One Ok Rock started

[andthebeanstalk]

Today my partner and I discussed getting matching shirts that say "the hot bitch I pulled by being autistic" and each shirt has an arrow that points to the other person.

[stellarhistoria]

i wanna plot pre est relationships...

[bluewinnerangel]

Twitter larries are having a “discourse” or whatever its called over the fact that some larries said larries don’t like Chicago cuz they can’t make it about it about larry and then others were like thats not true people just have different music tastes. And i have say i agree I don’t like Chicago, I don’t hate it but its not my favourite. Not because i can’t make it about larry but its just not for me. People need to understand that were here cuz we like their music not just to make their songs or everything they do about each other.

Everything about this is just funny to me. Just a bigass pile of assumptions here.

Anyway track-by-track soon I hope he tells us absolutely nothing about the meaning of any of the songs <3

[dan-crimes]

I don't personally enjoy death in my stories for one because I have no experience with it personally and for two because you can't torture a character anymore once they've died 😇

[unproduciblesmackdown]

it's not about that you "have" to get to exercise your autonomy. b/c like, yes you do, but not in the way that "if i don't get to do that Now i will explode & evaporate (& die)" which is what people keep leveraging to be like "so you don't have any valid argument for getting to act out your own choices"

therein is another issue of "why do you need a 'valid argument' to get Exceptions as ruled by this person to exist autonomously, unpunished" like why's this person an authority who gets to punish you. nonrhetorically, why do you have to appeal to their maybe possibly deciding to Let you be a person. should you "have" to.

and if you don't get that Permission that you supposedly "have" to get, you also will not immediately explode and die if you do that unpermitted thing, but shocking how "you don't Haaaave to" is only invoked re: things you want to do for yourself, and not what they want you to do for them....because it's Not Really About "Literally literally Haaaaving to"

the alignment between people getting on one for years about asexuality, and while doing so maxing out the saturation on their bullshit on any & everything, b/c you're just getting into anti autonomy, so ofc you're also just stoking & expressing "arguments" against autonomy that are deployed in plenty of other contexts, including against other queer identities....and that particular resonance with biphobia & transphobia, and how either groups are theoretically thwarting the Truest Gays because how will we have a valid argument against the truest cishets agenda if we can't convince them we haaaaaave to be like this instead of that no, we won't explode & die if we have to be repressed or at least closeted another day, and another, and you won't explode after another, either, etc. rather than thee point of "asexuality autonomy = queer autonomy = Your queer autonomy = Anyone's Autonomy" and "why do we 'have' to Convince anyone to go 'oh alriiiight' abt one's choices about how they express their identity, what decisions they make about having sex"....it's about anyone having the power to preclude & restrict others' autonomy & constrain their existence between one kind of more imminent, immediate harm/death & a more drawn out one where you exist as a resource for others' use but at least you aren't Literally dead today. so what if someone's saying "well i don't think your gender/sexuality stuff is Real" so long as they can't get in the way of other people living that out anyways. so what if someone's supposedly like "well, but everyone could be bi" (which they don't. just like ppl were never 'pretending' to be asexual to nefariously stand around in the queer space that never rigorously vetted everyone anyways? Making Up A Guy To Get Mad At) to supposedly argue that if all of you are bi you can just restrict yourself to the Cishet Appearing manifestations (which they don't) where what's that even matter if this [guy to get mad at] can't make that anyone else's problem? if he can, why can he. should he be able to. that's the problem, not "have we all tried the constant biphobia wherein they're always thwarting & sabotaging the rest of us?? like how trans people are keeping us from being legitimate?? with the opportunity for some trans people to also try declaring other noncis people Not Legitimately Trans?? well the cishet agenda loves asexuals, actually, they want everyone to never have sex ever (they don't want that, and that's not what being asexual is)"

using the "you can't Know through Direct Perception or extrasensory phenomena what someone else's Thoughts And Feelings are" both ways; wherein their assertion of their intentions, true or not, gets to be treated as an assertion of Reality, meanwhile b/c Your intentions/thoughts/feelings can't be directly observed, you're just lying or exaggerating or misremembering or failing to Express yourself correctly b/c they would've surely interpreted it correctly otherwise, or [anything else] re: your inner experiences that you can't "prove" are one way or another, so this other person gets to always decide for themself what they must be (why?) and if they just so happen to decide they Must be in alignment with what they want (good) or unacceptably, evilly, incorrectly Against Them, they also get to flex their control over the entire situation via their Authority / control over resources / the person's lack of other options b/c of isolation & that, say, breaking away from a family, job, marriage or just deemed correctly romantic relationship, is punished by the larger system of How Things Are, through a lack of resources that makes you more vulnerable in general as well as vulnerable to further punishment in how you might try to respond to that situation, through the general stance that maintaining cohesion of a Unit like the nuclear family, the "romantic" "man"/"woman" couple, is good, so breaking from it is deviant........anyways it's like. if you're like "well i'm having sex b/c i want to" and someone is like "well i say YOURE LYING" like, what? "isn't there someone you forgot to ask" shit. why should that get to affect things. whether you're like "oh no. what if they could say 'you're lying...b/c how do i knowwww you're not BI. where you could want to have sex with someone BESIDES this one person rn?? or ACE??? if you Don't have sex rn and you Don't explode and die 5 min later we will Know you Could Be Asexual" like, this isn't how it works anyways obviously but theoretically if it did: we would not be like "oh sorry guess that's what matters" unless what mattered was some people's being lower on a hierarchy and at the quite literal disposal of those with more power than them. what would the crisis be of someone going "well i think. every gay person? is bi" or someone going "you've just told me your name is gloria but i think your name is actually tetris...." or "i'm so embarrassed i wish everyone but me was dead" if none of these things can hinder the existence of people having sex w/autonomy for all involved or people getting to tell you their name or all other people being alive

the banger quote on my imdb page was saying "no, i don't 'Have' to, but i'm going to" to an authoritarian in my life, concluding several minutes' "negotiation" of [i 'have' to hang up on this call now b/c the movie i'm standing in this movie theater to see is about to start. no i won't explode and die if i don't. i also won't explode and die if i don't keep "talking" to you (being Talked At / lectured & upbraided from afar)] funny how that works. i also Know this was a checkmate b/c that person gave up on responding (or, technically, switched to The Silent Treatment, which worked even worse via phone than in person) and i did hang up rather than miss the movie i showed up for and then they had to resort to Other Methods: telling someone willing to take on the enabling cop mode that i had Essentially said Go Fuck Yourself. like well that's right, and the fact that it's a "go fuck yourself" to get to say "i am going to end the call b/c i choose to do something else" and then actually do so is a real testament to this relationship. and if one had said "i can't keep talking, i have to go" and someone's like "sldfj you mean thou MAY not keep talking" teehee i don't know, CAN you have the peas????? it's like this obviously doesn't matter. i can choose to do shit and choose to not do shit without exploding and dying right this very second, except for taking 5 sec to eat a deadly bomb with a timer set for 5 sec. This Is Not The Point. why is autonomy off-limits to Anyone.

[kaeyachi]

hsr spoilers in the tags!