#Liz and TJ

[jojoblessed365]

Okay, this is just a theory and because I'm ferociously bored, so here goes:

I just finished watching Wednesday and while watching episode 5, I couldn't help but draw parallels between Gomez-Morticia-Wednesday and TJ-Liz-Doula respectively.

Both sets of parents are full-on sexually romantic with no boundaries whatsoever, and their children can't help but blanche at that. I personally feel that Liz and TJ are egotistic and tend to get wrapped up in their own problems and Doula is sadly caught in the middle.

Also, it would be a good conflict- that no matter how much Liz has changed and handling parenting in two completely different ways (being a single mom with Jess and then co-parenting with TJ their kid Doula), Doula ironically becomes a version of teen Jess.

And then I watched episode 7 and loved the relationship between Uncle Fester and Wednesday. And I immediately thought of the possible rapport between Jess and Doula- coming in whenever she needs a shakeup in her life or going through an existential crisis.

Anyway, I believe that if the Palladinos ever want to go back to Stars Hollow and the Gilmore universe, it would be so fun to see a different perspective and they should take Doula's POV, given that we haven't seen her and she is a "blank slate"; also I'm so bummed we never got to see the Jess spinoff and I think they could recycle the material and use Doula as the lead where she searched for a family member and attempts to find herself. And then Jess periodically comes to check on her, much like how Lenny Bruce would pop in at odd times in The Marvelous Mrs Maisel.

Anyway, I'm fully out of steam!!! Drop your thoughts in the comments or reblog!!!

Mic drop!!!

[0ut0nther0ad-feelinl0nely]

Liz and TJ's house

[saltygilmores]

I could say so many things about this completely bonkers scene straight out of Bonkersville. I decided to rewash it tonight. But two special things stand out to me and I had to gif them. 1) the quickness with which TJ flips that book out of Jess' hand. Like that book does a fucking graceful somersault in the air and 2) the way Milo's Pre-Emo hair flippy-flops when Luke grabs him :)

[stellaluna33]

Oh dang, oh no. I keep going on about how Liz kicked TJ out and then told everybody that he "left" her, and how insane that is... but it only just now occurred to me that that's basically what Luke did to Jess too, especially from Jess's perspective. 😫 This freaking family, I swear...

[garak-pussy-indulgence]

Coley Phipps patron saint of jorkin it

[dax-vs-general-hospital]

Also with Austin now most definitively dead too, it keeps giving into my theory that if you become a doctor at GH, you will die.

[missroller15]

“Jess turned out.. fine.” - Luke

Now don’t get me wrong, I think Luke encouraging Liz that she’ll be a great mother to her next kid isn’t bad but I don’t understand why he’s acting is if Jess ended up where he is now thanks to Liz when she literally could not have done the opposite when it came to raising him. 😬

[ohtendril]

Top five episodes of Gilmore Girls?

I’ve never thought about my ranking before o lord okay

- those are strings pinocchio

- the Lorelais’ first day at yale

- the pilot

- deep fried korean thanksgiving

- raincoats and recipes & last week fights, this week tights

[disloyalpunk]

the romantic interest character in my book is finally dumping all their traumatic back story about their family and they're all "im six foot one, i can't shut up, i have this loud laugh" meanwhile cut to me panting and fanning myself in the background because my brain shut down when they were confirmed 6'1"

[clumsycapitolunicorn]

.

[adveanture]

tswift tag drops:  jess mariano,  gilmore girls pt. 2 

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   rory.

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   luke.

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   liz.

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   jimmy.

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   lorelai.

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   tj.

╰   ––––––– ✧   JESS  MARIANO!      :      ft.   doula.

[jojoblessed365]

Please tell me: they can be brothers at least once? In one lifetime?

[0ut0nther0ad-feelinl0nely]

Liz and TJ's house

[thefirst3chapters]

Overanalyzing the Danes family again and thinking about how they react to change:

Liz appears to have an affinity for material objects. When Luke goes to Liz and TJ's place in S7, they have lots of Renaissance faire decor, supplies for making jewelry, quite a few other decorative items, and what appears to be a sizable Beanie Babies collection. That could just be their style, but it's interesting that Luke mentions in S4 that Liz has ended up in situations where a guy leaves with her belongings and clears out her bank account. Perhaps having a lot of physical things around her that aren't very expensive and probably aren't family heirlooms makes her feel safe and gives her a sense of control when everything else changes. Those things might not be as likely to be stolen, and if they go missing she can acquire more.

In S6, Liz tells Luke after a successful run selling jewelry that she doesn't know what to do with all the money, and Luke's suggestion of putting it in a bank hadn't occurred to her. Maybe when Liz came across some money she liked going to thrift stores and getting as much as she could afford. I'm picturing her finding yet another lava lamp or doll and saying, "I feel a connection with this one, don't you think it belongs with us?" while four-year-old Jess, who has been dragging around Curious George Learns the Alphabet for months, stares at her blankly.

Most of the things Jess seems to value are sources of ideas (books and music) or have a clear practical purpose (his clothes, watch, and car). One notable exception is the bracelets he has in addition to the one he temporarily keeps from Rory, and there's that ring he has in AYITL. Maybe there's a story there, and it's possibly an interesting connection to Liz's interest in jewelry (cue the everlasting Gilmore Girls theme of being like your parents even if you don't realize it or try to resist it). Twice we see Jess moving out of town with just what he can carry, and it happened offscreen when he went back to New York. Luke points out that Jess doesn't have much when first gets to Stars Hollow, but he doesn't seem to mind and says that Liz will send the rest later. In that episode, Liz tells Luke it will be that Friday. When all this stuff arrives 10 episodes later, there is of course comedic value in Luke's frustration at being trapped by mountains of boxes, but it's interesting that there is so much, and Jess doesn't seem to care about most of it. Did Liz think Jess would be comforted by this in the way she might be? Even with the extra space when the addition is built, a lot of those things realistically would not have been kept. Jess doesn't seem to own much besides books when he's in his New York apartment either.

Liz is more gregarious than Luke and Jess, but she also appears less affected when people she loves are absent. Liz calls Luke to see if Jess got to town alright in his first episode but famously doesn't ask about Jess going back to New York for the holidays. In S4, Liz is happy to see Jess both times he is in town, but she doesn't go out of her way to find out where he is or if he's okay. In S6, when she projects her concerns by telling TJ that he's going to mess up their child and throws things at him, she tells Luke that TJ left her like all the guys before him, but she's calm about it because of her "new come-what-may philosophy." Luke's the one who intervenes and gets TJ to come back while Liz is busy making new friends, and then Liz is glad to reconcile with him. Maybe Liz's apparent ease with all of this and her inclination toward meeting new people is how she's gotten through all of the losses she's experienced. She's predisposed to moving on.

Jess isn't social by nature, and as a teenager he's extra resistant to being around other people. However, in the two examples we see, once he gets emotionally attached to someone, it's for life. Being estranged from Luke and Rory affects him deeply and for a long time, and when he reconciles with them he makes it clear how important they both are to him. When he's working at Truncheon, he and his co-workers are friends, and he's conversational enough to be a successful businessperson in that environment, but April still notes that "men in this family aren't chatty" when she meets him.

For Luke, the circle of people he likes being around is small, but to those people he's extensively loyal ("Once Luke Danes is in your life, he's in your life forever"). The absence of someone he cares about clearly distresses him, and he tends to seek solitude in response. His apartment isn't cluttered, but he seems to have kept high school trophies, and he has a strong emotional attachment to things that are connected to his family: the diner, the "William's Hardware" sign, the boat, and his grandmother's bedroom furniture. Luke's life has been a bit more stable because he's the one who stuck around to take care of his parents and run the family business, and he's often hesitant to accept change. When metaphorical storms uproot Liz and Jess and take them elsewhere, they have contrasting coping mechanisms that they take with them while Luke stays behind and tries to hold down the fort, and eventually Jess finds stable footing and is able to help him. Or something like that.

[frazzledsoul]

A non exhaustive list of terrible things Liz Danes did/said after she showed up:

- Makes a beeline straight for the pot the minute she shows up

- Hasn't called to check on Jess once in the nine (!) months he's been gone from Stars Hollow

- It's established that she generally has a terrible track record with men/employment/stable housing

- It's also established she is easily able to manipulate Luke into doing her bidding and in pretending that every new terrible idea is no big deal

- Makes a show of introducing Jess to TJ and acting like she's the best mom ever despite his obvious discomfort

-Makes several statements to Lorelai to the effect that Luke has been cleaning up after her for her entire life and finding her jobs, apartments, helping her out financially, getting rid of dangerous men

- To quote Jess verbatim: "I don't like this guy. I don't like any of the guys. She doesn't give a crap what I think. I've got nineteen years of proof to back me up". She always chose her men over him, no matter how terrible they were.

- Luke is involved in sussing out Jess's whereabouts and living situation, giving him a place to sleep (thanks to Lorelai), offering him money to fix his car. Liz is not involved in any of that and doesn't offer. She signed off on being the parent a long time ago.

- Liz shows back up for the wedding and immediately manipulates Luke into helping arrange the wedding, selling jewelry in the diner, inviting strippers to the diner...when she's around, he ends up doing her bidding almost automatically. Zero boundaries.

- There's more references to her sketchy self-employment and the many times Luke watched it fall apart.

- Luke's the one who goes to New York, finds Jess, has him go back to Stars Hollow as a favor to him. No comment from Liz on his lifestyle or offering him a place to stay. Luke is the only one who fights with him about it. Luke's also the one to give him romantic advice as Liz is not involved in that at all.

- Liz reveals her romantic history right before the wedding. Second husband was okay, third husband was not and died mysteriously, boyfriend after third husband was also okay. This is also the only wedding she's not been drunk at.

- Liz assumes Jess broke Rory's heart even though she has no idea who that is. Lorelai steps in and defends Jess, saying it just didn't work out.

- Luke is roped into taking care of Liz and TJ for several weeks after they are in a car accident and following them around on the Ren Faire circuit. I only mention this because he is, as always, forever her caretaker.

- Liz and TJ get into a screaming fight early in S5 and ruin Luke and Lorelai 's date.

- Sometime in S5 or S6 Liz mentions that she's never made dinner, not once. Jess is around 20 years old at this time period. How did he eat?

-Liz manipulates Luke into letting TJ work at the construction at Lorelai's house. She cries and throws a tantrum until he gives in. TJ somehow knocks a big hole in the upstairs of Lorelai's house.

-Liz does not show up to Jess's open house, nor does she ever mention it (or him at all) afterwards. Luke shows up to support him and tells him he's proud of him. Mom can't be bothered.

-When Liz finds out she's pregnant with Doula, she casually mentions to Luke (in public!) that she binge drank while she was pregnant with Jess. Luke isn't shocked by this.

-Liz claims to Luke that TJ abandoned her after she told him she was pregnant. Luke goes to TJ and TJ reveals that Liz got violent and threw half the household objects at his head and kicked him out when he was excited about it. Luke goes to Liz afterwards and she rants that if she stays with TJ her kid's going to end up ruined and she'll have to send it away. Luke is the one who reminds her that Jess turned out OK and that he's actually doing great (not that Liz has any knowledge of this at all or should receive any credit for it). Liz and TJ reconcile.

- Liz and TJ invite Luke over for dinner in early S7. Their stove is broken. He has to make dinner himself (because of course he does). Despite formerly being supportive, they tell him Lorelai was bad for him and Liz says some mumbo jumbo about how they were never meant to be together. Luke runs into Lorelai at the grocery store and says the whole thing was a bad idea and he'll be civil to her, but he's not interested in a personal relationship again. Lorelai basically doesn't go anywhere in town she could run into him for the next six months (okay, the romantic advice isn't terrible per se but Liz is seriously inconsistent on this issue).

- Luke attends Doula's birth. Liz is excited about April being a free babysitter.

- Liz dumps Doula on Luke at work a few weeks after she is born because she "needs a break" and disappears for hours.

-Liz and TJ invite themselves to stay at Luke's apartment some weeks later, shortly after Lorelai and Christopher have broken up. Now Liz is all excited about Lorelai and Luke getting back together (pick a lane, woman).

-In the series finale, Liz tries to dump Doula on Luke at work AGAIN (how often does she do this?) Luke stops her before she can leave, and makes her take the baby with her.

-Liz and TJ are mercifully offscreen for AYITL. Jess fulfills the role of being Luke's sounding board and attempting to comfort him when he has problems with Lorelai and there are already enough quirky townies, so she isn't needed. TJ and Liz are involved in a mysterious vegetable cult that they eventually get kicked out of, which provides a reason for Jess to come into town every so often. He's now the support to his family that Luke used to be on his own. It's implied that this is not the first time TJ and Liz have gotten involved in a cult over the past few years

My point to all of this is that Liz is not stable, she's not a decent person, she has not "redeemed" herself, she may be clean and sober but she's still horribly selfish, unreliable, and a pain in Luke's ass. There's a bunch of stuff that is implied in Jess's behavior that indicates she was a horrible mom, but we don't get the full picture until she shows up. The full picture is...a lot worse.

[idkiwasntsupposedtobebackhere]

all jess mariano mentions in episodes he’s not in (season 4-ayitl):

s4e5: lorelai says rory has no casual dating experience by pointing out that jess and dean were both actual relationships.

s4e9: at the harvard/yale game emily asks lorelai if they’ve heard from rory’s ”ex-hoodlum” and lorelai says jess seems to be gone for good.

s4e17:

-luke is worried that nicole is cheating bc he’s wearing another man’s socks (with a fruity padding). lorelai suggests it could be jess’ socks and luke says they’re not.

-on spring break louise asks rory about her ex. rory asks her if she means jess but she is talking about dean.

s4e22: lane and rory discuss jess asking rory to run away with her.

s5e5: luke doesn’t approve of rory dating dean bc he’s not good for her and lorelai replies ”and who is, jess?”. luke says ”no, not jess, a prince maybe”.

s5e6: lorelai’s porch light isn’t working and she tells luke it hasn’t been changed since dean did it and also feels the need to tell him that jess never changed that porch light.

s6e19: rory and lorelai look through pictures on rory’s camera which is how lorelai finds out rory went to jess’ open house (and met april). they discuss.

s6e20: when luke and lorelai turn april’s birthday party into a sleepover, luke mentions that he still has jess’ bed and that a couple of april’s friends could sleep there.

s6e21: when liz is rightfully worried that she won’t be a good mom to doula luke reassures her that she’s fine because jess turned out great.

s7e9: liz is about to give birth and TJ tells luke that while liz had jess at a hospital, she wants to have doula at home.

s7e18: lorelai tells sookie it made sense for her to have an opinion on rory dating jess or dean but now that rory’s grown up, lorelai’s opinion on logan doesn’t matter.

ayitl winter: when discussing having more kids, lorelai asks luke if he ever wanted a boy to toss a ball with. luke says ”there’s jess” (🥹) and lorelai says ”i said toss a ball WITH not AT” .

that’s literally it. no need for anyone to watch past season 3 and jess’ ayitl parts now