#Redeemed Lila

[a-flaming-idiot]

They're good kids, I SWEAR!!!

[zoe-oneesama]

I like how you gave Lila a chance. I mean, she's still very questionable, but at least she's not full-on evil. I like her friendship with Sabrina and - was it Alix? Is there a reason for that?

Full disclosure, I only gave Lila a break because having her as a secondary (third?) antagonist would've really bogged down the story and she'd be completely beyond unnecessary. Like, don't get me wrong, I love SL Lila and have a lot of fun with her as she's in the squad of characters who are Good but still allowed to be Kind of Mean (like Alix and Sabrina and kinda Nathaniel imo), but it's not because I think Canon Lila could be saved at this point.

Honestly, if Lila wasn't tied to "Volpina" and if "Volpina" wasn't a pivotal, status quo shaking (well it's MEANT to be that) episode, I probably wouldn't have included Lila at all. Hell, it would've been fun of me to finish Chloe's story with a huge teaser of Still Evil, Canon Lila moving to Paris late, implying she'd be taking Chloe's place.

[muggle-born-princess]

Are you Cedar Wood from Ever After High because you're speaking the truth.

[imthepunchlord]

How would you say, realistically, Zoe being Chloe’s younger half-sister works out? Knowing Audrey and Andre, do you think Audrey just separated from Andre temporarily and hooked up with Mr. Lee and Andre just accepted it when she got pregnant? This would’ve had to have been soon after Chloe was born for the ages to be close, too.

I don't know as the show itself isn't clear. As least, I don't remember them being clear about Zoe's set up. I know my ML buddies and I, near the time Zoe's intro ep came out, couldn't figure out if Audrey cheated on Andre or if Zoe was born before they got married?

But I'd answer no, Zoe doesn't work out, not as Chloe's half sister or even as an existing character. It really feels like she was brought in because they wanted a "good Chloe" to be Bee. Cause if Bee HAD to go to a blonde, Rose and Aurore are right there, and the latter is pretty popular for a background character. Miss Sting could've existed!

But as a character, Zoe hasn't brought anything to the table. The episodes that are supposed to be about her aren't even about her but still more about Chloe. At this point, I say she only exists to answer the fans want for a redeemed antagonistic character. As Chloe is the one fans want redeemed the most, Zoe is essentially here to be like, "Ok, here's your redeemed blonde".

Though with Zoe being a skilled actress and manipulator, you could also count her as a possible redeemed Lila too.

So Zoe is their easy out to redeeming one of the two mean girls that fans could want to see redeemed, allowing them to not redeem them, keep them bad to antagonize Marinette, and not do the work of redeeming them. Especially as Thomas just wants Chloe and Lila to stay evil and terrible.

Which like, dude, you didn't need 2 mean girls to go against Marinette; this could've flowed better if one was against Adrien or Alya.

Honestly, when Lila was brought in and implied to be "worse" than Chloe, that was their chance to start a Chloe redemption as they didn't need 2 mean girls against Marinette. But Thomas doesn't want Chloe redeemed or to have Lila expand her animosity to Marinette so... and fans really wanted a redeemed character so here's Zoe to fill that void. She looks like Chloe and has similar traits to Lila. Boom. Best of both worlds they are so brilliant.

So, of the little we have of her, I'm not seeing the point of Zoe herself existing as a character in this already big roster they have going. Not to say nothing could be done with her, but I'm not anticipating this show to really do anything either. So as of now, she's a pointless inclusion, done only so because they want the Bee to be tied to Chloe, but don't want to do the work of redeeming Chloe or even changing up her role (and Lila too).

If Zoe HAD to exist, by set up, I'd say it'd be better if Zoe and Chloe were cousins. Have Mr Lee instead be Audrey's brother, and he sends Zoe up cause maybe Paris would be better for her or she's apart of a program to study abroad idk.

I could also see potential if they were twin sisters, and Audrey took the preferred daughter with her as Chloe wasn't meeting her standards. Mindful, Style Queen and Zoe coming in would have to be tweaked/meshed together in some way, but it can be done. @nobodyfamousposts shared a possible thought of Zoe being Chloe's own Lila and merging Zoe and Lila into one as they're both skilled in manipulating people (and cut Lila out entirely), and expand on how messed up the Bourgeois are as a family and offer another reason for Chloe to get to that point as Zoe manipulated things against her; though Chloe also didn't make things easy for Zoe.

Either way, I don't think Zoe works as a character; not with her coming in so late which tells me she was unplanned for the Bourgeois family; her set up being unclear on the details, and to me, it feels like she exists to answer fans' want for a redeemed mean girl so they don't have to change their characters and their status quo or put in that effort.

She's an easy character to cut out/not include.

[writersstareoutwindows]

tagged by @theoxvest, thank you! making a new post just for tidiness’ sake.

Last song I listened to: Song of Durin by Clamavi De Profundis

Favorite color: Pink

Last movie I watched: Miraculous: Ladybug & Cat Noir, The Movie. Which means I’ve seen all Miraculous that there is to see until season 6 and I’m sad about that.

Sweet/spicy/savory: Sweet. So so sweet.

Relationship status: who’s to say

Last thing I looked up: “Zelda totk” in an attempt to learn about Zelda the NPC. Which didn’t immediately work because, well, that’s also just the name of the game. My eventual research did turn up the fact that this girl just can’t catch a break, huh, it’s always centuries of standing as a lonely sentinel with her.

Current obsession: Well Katie Pearlhead weighs pretty heavy on the brain for reasons that are obvious to some. Miraculous was pretty up there before I caught up. My newest Skyrim characters are simmering on the backburner. But truly the lion’s share of my attention goes to thinking about ttrpgs with my friends; one of the reasons I got hooked on Miraculous in the first place is because it would make such a good au for one of my D&D characters—

@within-infant-rind @sierradee @snizx @smallbitterman if you would like! all the other Oxventure people I know have already been tagged!

[redtriangle]

Heroic Lila: Sasori

One more Good Lila as the Scorpion Miraculous superhero, Sasori, from KIreiscorner’s AU comic Nocturnal Guardian: Sasori. Unfortunately, her fan comic discontinued when it just started.I want to make Sasori/Scorpion!Lila because she is one of the early AU good Lila in my early days into Miraculous. And with three Lilas, three times the charm.

I think I’ve made her exposed forehead big but there is something I like about it. Well, that’s all the Heroic Lilas for now. Hope to do more in the future.

Miraculous Ladybug belongs to Thomas Astruc and Zagtoon

Sasori and Nocturnal Guardian: Sasori

 AU made by Kireiscorner

Drawn by Redtriangle (me)

[that-was-anticlimactic]

actually, no. you know what? i am so sick of this “marinette is just a friend” bs. okay. cool. adrien said she was just a friend a few times. whatever. it’s not that big of a deal and everyone in the mlb fandom like. hyperfixates on that??? idc if it’s a “just a joke” because it’s utterly ridiculous at this point. i have literally seen people go on heated rants about how stupid or clueless adrien was during the umbrella scene because he called mari just a friend. are you kidding me??? y’all are really going to take away that moment for him? he just made like his first ever friend in nino and when he called her a friend, he looked so excited because this boy has only ever had one friend before. of course he’s going to call mari just a friend because he just met her and the only time she’s actually spoken to him outside of the suit at this point is to yell at him like... y’all...

and this is not me hating on mari because i love her so so so much. i just hate how passionate and heated fans get about this. i mean... y’all... adrien didn’t even think mari liked him??? like, in puppeteer two, he is literally upset because he came to the conclusion that mari hates him. also, of course he’s not like in love with or crushing on her when she’s barely spoken actual sentences to him! again, not me hating on mari and her nerves because like i get it, it’s hard. and also this is like adrien’s first time interacting with people as peers, so 1. of course romance is not his main priority 2. he doesn’t understand social cues or situations very well At All which is made abundantly clear in the show 3. i don’t... i don’t think adrien knows what affection is??? i mean, he’s definitely learned some over the course of the show, but he’s used to a neglectful / abusive father, his stoic assistant, his bodyguard who doesn’t really talk like at all, chloé being chloé, and hoards of fans declaring that they’re in love with him, hanging all over him, acting like he’s a shiny thing rather than a person, etc... so like. how is adrien supposed to actually comprehend that mari likes him???

and okay no my last point: so so so sick of the double standard. i have seen countless people rant and rave and scream and shout about how stupid adrien is for not returning mari’s feelings or knowing he has a crush on her and then these same people will turn around and berate chat noir and say things like “gosh ladybug isn’t obligated to return his feelings:/” like... hELLO??? why is ladybug not obligated while adrien is??? it’s ridiculous and disgusting and i’m so so so tired of “just a friend” jokes on tumblr, in art, in fics, in youtube compilations... like... can’t we be normal about this? and i don’t mean normal as in “casually enjoy” i mean normal as in can we stop being so aggressive and harsh and hostile towards literal fourteen year olds my God they’re children they’re allowed to make mistakes and mess up and my God the way y’all talk about lila is disgusting, too like i hate her but i don’t want her tortured and killed??? and the way people characterize the classmates as physically and verbally assaulting mari because of lila??? like... my God they would never??? they would all honestly side with mari chameleon is a bad episode and is poorly written and everyone is out of character please use your critical thinking skills and understand that chat noir is not harassing ladybug anymore than mari may be harassing adrien (aka they are not harassing each other at all my God) and stop insulting and demonizing fourteen year olds so your otp can get together thanks

[sunnibits]

SHGS IM SORRY I THOUGHT MAYBE FIVE WAS ACTUALLY GONNA NICELY CHECK ON VIKTOR FINALLY BUT NO WE’RE GONNA LECTURE VIKTOR SOME MORE??? AFTER THE SHIT ALLISON HAS BEEN PULLING?????? HELLO????

[themmatennant]

a tv adoration has reemerged from the depths of my psyche and thus i shall be posting TUA memes until season four comes out on august eighth

[aliensunflower-fics]

My Recommended Fic List

So, I got this ask awhile ago, and since I have been re-reading a bunch of my old favorite fics as a way to cheer up after work I figured why not. This list will be long... and varied but mostly its older fics cuz idk there my favs. Now lets go:

Fashion Upgrade - By @soap-lady : Straight up one of my favorite fics ever, its fun, its creative, it never fails to make me laugh when I need something warm and wholesome after a bad day. Also go check out the rest of her stuff there's so much good okay like shes just a writing queen. Shes on AO3 I don't want to spoil you on her other stuff just GO experience it for yourself.

Ode To Decoy pt 1 / 2 / 3 - By @a-marlene-s : Ive always liked this short sweet little fic about Lila getting caught. Its Lila + class salt though so avoid if that's not your flavor.

EVERYTHING - By @unmaskedagain : They have salt, they have sugar, they have funny, they have crossovers. Like honestly they are a just a great writer with so much variety so go check out the masterlist I linked and I guarantee there will be something there you like.

@ravennm84 Is a writer on the saltier side but they have a wonderful selection of weird wacky tales from the salty but oh so well written Damning Evidence that sees Lila get caught in the best way to the 3 part Horror inspired Serafina other great fics from them include Marinettes Family Court Circus pt 1 / 2 and Of Moldy Bread and Cockroaches / Be Kind to Servers honestly its worth giving there blog a look.

@mochinek0 Is another writer with several beloved fics. They write a lot of Maribat and we love them for it. Ones to check out would be Blind Date / Bruce vs Gabriel just go check out there tag list of daminette for more.

Accidental Crime Boss Marinette - By @lady-literature : This is a wonderful idea and a wonderful little fic and I just... I just like it okay. Sadly I haven't read a lot of there other stuff... But I might after finishing this list considering how much I enjoy this one.

@nobodyfamousposts I love a LOT of there fics. They are one of the best when it comes to striking that sweet spot of calling out the show for some of its garbage while not getting so salty that you cant have fun lighthearted goodness. I have been looking for a masterlist of there work but cant find one so just go stalk there tags. I do recommend there Chloe's Lament Series 1 / 2 exploring how certain 'wishes' would backfire. Guardian Assistant Kevin is also a good one Miracle Queen Aftermath pt 1 / 2 / The 8 parter Burn the Witch series / The Wisdom Teeth Reveal / Kagami Vs The Wall of Faces / Resigning With Grace & Spite / I tried to give a lot of links cuz they have a lot of stuff

Kill Them With Kindness - By @luki-fanfic : Well written, good salt without going overboard. Just good vibes. I havent stalked there other stuff but if its anything like this fic its probably excellent quality.

Stephen Vladislav pt 1 / 2 - By @stormiclown : Adrien centered salt on the idea of finally giving Adrien his own proper rival. I like the idea of Adrien having a rival because its usually Marinette and this was just the right length to get those creative ideas flowing. Also just well written what more can you ask for.

Power Trip - By @storygirl000 : This was the first fic that made me go... Wait would it be more fun if Lila was actually competent? And that set me on the path to writing my own fics where Lila is more villainous and more capable. Its short, well written. Good.

Your Wish is My Command - By DemiGoddess28 on AO3 : A great 11 chapter fic looking into Lila's life if she were to win and get a miraculous wish. Its got sugary goodness for our protagonists and the class and salt for our dearest friend Lila.

LadyBugOut AU - By Miraculous-Content on AO3 : A 50 chapter fic made up of snippets and ideas. I found it really inspiring in many ways. I also love how it redeems Marinettes classmates showing how and why they were tricked but holding them accountable anyway its just... Good.

Juleka vs The Forces of the Universe - By goldenlaurelleaves on AO3 : For those of us not yet ready to accept the death of luka/mari we have this wonderful fic showing Juleka being the biggest wingman as she helps these idiots find there way together.

ChaoticNeutral on AO3 has there own Chloe's Lament fic as well as a Gabriel's Lament fic for people who need sweet salty of those two characters.

BroadwayCutie16 was Inspired by the person above and DemiGoddesses your wish is my command fic to write Lila's Lament fic going over Lilas failed wish. Honestly I always love these fics because there just so interesting and the way wishes can be taken and twisted is always a fascinating idea to me.

#WayneAngel - By Tired-Writing-Teach on AO3 : For us Maribat lovers. Its fun and lighthearted with some good gags and some light fluff.

Damian in Paris - By Lilliesandliveries on AO3 : A sweet Maribat series showing what would happen if Damian ran away from home and found himself in Paris and getting therapy.

How a Demon Commissions an Angel - By AlixAnonymous : Damian blackmails Marinette into letting him be her client so he can get his bros the best gifts, they end up becoming penpal buddies.

Mythomania - By LadyEnna_50 on AO3 : Proof that I dont hate Adrien or Mari/Adrien. In this fic Adrien's spine gets titanium plating and he sees just how bad Lila is hurting Marinette and does something about it.

The Contingency - By AbyssalGuardian on AO3 : SALT. Also Tim/Mari but even still I love the way this was written, the style, and some of the ideas just ugh love it. Its not for those who dont like salt so just avoid at your own discretion. Its about a chaotic Marinette done with her life running away to Gotham where she meets her true black cat, and gets her life back on track.

The String That Binds Us - By FaithAndATypeWriter on AO3 : Okay so is there any Mari/Bat fan who hasnt already heard of this one? Who cares its good, its cute, I love it. May the author be blessed with snacks.

The Great IKEA Game - By @batsandbugs : Okay again... I think every Mari/Bat fan has probably heard of this one already because its just that good and that popular. But who cares I am recommending it anyway. Don't read if your allergic to fun I guess.

If this list still doesn't somehow have enough salt for you then try @goggles-mcgee fics here is a link to there Masterlist. They are in a way a professional at salt and angst and they make you want to adopt Marinette and pop her in a blanket fort.

Honestly I could keep going but this list already feels so long for other great recs though I can link you to @jayphoenic who has some great Daminette Fic Recs and some Lila Salt Fic Recs!

Feel free to reblog this and add some links to stuff you would think I or others might like! Also lets just acknowledge how many talented authors the community has like wow.

[a-flaming-idiot]

Thinking about how when Shadybug and Claw Noir are evil, they can be redeemed since they're traumatized kids being manipulated by an adult taking advantage of them. When Lila and Chloe are evil, they're irredeemable monsters who know exactly what they're doing and deserve what's coming to them.

[yunyin]

Art of Lupalia for StellarStylus! She's a redeemed Lila with a wolf miraculous. Design by Liehl. Ficlet here.

[yeet-noir]

Wait people actually believe Gabriel was redeemed in the end? He manipulated people up to his dying breath and wished to be seen as a hero. I know the ending seemed strange, but it definitely did so purposefully. This was a set up for the conflict next season not a wrap up of his arc.

I get the initial shock, but this show never held back on the abusive nature of Gabriel. In season 5 alone the total shift of Gabriel was idgaf about my son’s happiness and being mad at his lack of control he has on him. The last thing he did was control Adrien’s perspective of him. He went from wanting to be with his wife to being completely power hungry. His power hunger lead to Gimmi granting his desires.

And if that still isn’t enough to comfort people just remember that every season ends with a set up for the conflict that will follow in the next season:

Season 1 finale introduced Lila as an antagonist interested in the Miraculous and Marinette’s personal life which lead to Lila’s arc start which more so carried out in later seasons.

Season 2 finale introduced Mayura and Ladybug, Chat Noir the other heroes had their first epic fight beyond the scope of villain of the week. This lead to the introduction of sentimonsters and Mayura’s arc which heavily carried out in season 3.

Season 3 finale was another epic fight, but this time against Hawkmoth and Mayura. Master Fu’s identity becomes compromised leading to him passing down his guardianship to Marinette. This introduced Marinette’s guardian arc and season 4 heavily focused on her struggles with being one and maintaining peace with Chat Noir. This season also ended with both the love square “moving on” from one another which in turn caused season 4 to focus on their alternative ships.

Season 4 finale ended with Ladybug loosing the miraculous after being swindled by Felix. Felix offering a trade off with Gabriel for the Peacock miraculous. We literally ended with Ladybug having a mental breakdown and Chat Noir comforting her. This introduced the Monarch arc. Season 5 dealt with the consequences of this mistake.

So what I am trying to say each season finale ends with something that makes you wonder what will happen next. It never ends with a final conclusion only introduction to the next big arc. Seeing a weird reality where Gabriel is remembered as a hero despite us seeing him as villainous as ever to the very end isn’t his conclusion it’s a new arc.

[maspers]

Ranking the Miracucast by how good of a Doctor Who Companion they'd be.

Marinette: She'd be great at it, but she would also hate it and just want it to be over. She's tired and has no time for this shenaniganry. Please give her this chance to not be involved. 5/10

Alya: Would have SO MANY QUESTIONS. Could do very well, but I can see her veering dangerously close to Adam Mitchell territory. Careful there, Alya. 7/10

Adrien: Yes. 10/10

Nino: I think he'd be a decent TARDIS passenger, but he's the type that'd be part of an ensemble. Wouldn't work as well as a solo companion. 4/10

Chloe: Sorry Chloe fans, but no. The Doctor can pull a redemption arc out of anyone, but they also have no patience for bullcrap. It's just not happening no matter how much I want it to. 1/10

Sabrina: I think she would be great, but the fandom would not like her as a companion. 6/10

Mylene: Yeah, she would not like it. 0/10

Ivan: If Mylene isn't going, then neither is he. 0/10

Rose: Would be absolutely hilarious due to her name alone. Accompanying a Classic Doctor might be better for her. 7/10

Juleka: I don't care what you say she would be excellent and the fandom would love her. Ironically would probably fit better with a NuWho Doctor. 10/10

Kim: The Doctor does not want Kim in the TARDIS. Kim has been in the TARDIS at least once, and the Doctor has vowed that it will be the last time. They're wrong. 4/10

Max: The Doctor would ADORE Markov. Max would be Markov's plus one. 7/10 by proxy

Alix: Pretty sure she already is a companion. Like. In canon. We haven't seen it but it's definitely happened, fight me. Alix/10

Nathaniel: I want to say he'd be great but in my heart I know he would be Very Stressed. Definitely would not want to travel with the Doctor, but would keep getting dragged along by his friends. The fandom would love him though. 5/10

Lila: As she is now? Absolutely not. The Doctor would despise her. -10/10, BUUUUUUT if she was picked up before Volpina (or pre-Chameleon at the latest) I think she could be redeemed like in the Scarlet Lady AU. She would be hilarious. She gives me Turlough vibes. If the Doctor can deal with Turlough and Missy then he can deal with Lila. She has the potential to be unique and have an interesting character arc compared to other companions, and let's be honest NuWho needs something unique and interesting. 8/10

Luka: Like Nino, he works better as part of ensemble. Would be an excellent supporting character for Marinette or Juleka if they were companions, or maybe be a very cool Oneshot Companion like Wilf. 3/10

Kagami: The Doctor would have their work cut out for them, because Kagami is a "stab first ask questions later" person and the Doctor doesn't vibe with that normally. Neither The Doctor nor Kagami would be happy with this arrangement. So naturally Kagami's sole season would be one of the best in the entire show. 9/10

Marc: He would travel with either the Second or Thirteenth Doctors. He would do wonderfully, but his seasons would definitely be more focused on the Doctor than Marc himself. Sorry Marc. 7/10

Ondine: Is too busy keeping Kim out of trouble. And as stated previously, the Doctor does not want Kim in the TARDIS. 2/10

Felix: I just don't think it would work. Felix could definitely be a major recurring character, but somehow I can't really see him actually being a companion proper. He does get bonus points for being British. Perhaps instead of being a companion he spends his free time annoying Torchwood. 3/10

Zoe: She'd be great. But the universe would be Very Cruel to her. People will die, and she will not be happy about it. 8/10

[marimbles]

ok since i’ve really only whined but not actually explained my reasoning lol, here is my take on the s5 finale. (this is long, sorry)

I think we’re all on the same page about the idea that gabriel being seen as a hero, by all of paris but especially adrien, is icky. and on top of that it does not feel good that marinette is supporting that lie, even if it’s out of love for adrien. most people are assuming this issue will be resolved somehow in 6, probably by lila exposing the truth. cool. that’s my hope as well. but even if that’s the case, i still dislike the framing of his wish and what the surrounding context seems to imply about it.

it is not my assumption that gabriel’s wish included green initiatives and a reformation of the parisian school system lol. I assume that his wish was to exchange his own life for nathalie’s. but as we know, wishes literally rewrite reality. the fact is that paris improved after his wish, so it is still related. he remade the world, and the new world ended up better. It all supports the idea that his wish was a good thing—a noble sacrifice that redeemed him in some sense. my impression is that even if (hopefully) he is exposed as hawkmoth, the actual wish he made will still be framed as admirable. obviously marinette found it noble enough to agree to lie to everyone about gabriel’s identity as hawkmoth.

which brings me to another pain point: the fact that gabriel essentially won the long battle against ladybug and chat noir. i’ve heard arguments that he didn’t win because he died and how is that winning? he got what he deserved in the end. but imo, he just put himself out of his own misery, because he was on the brink of death anyway because of his cataclysm wound, and he basically escaped having to face any emotional consequences from his literal terrorism and child abuse. and even if you don’t consider that a win, you also can’t consider marinette’s end of the deal a win either. her goal was to prevent hawkmoth from unifying the miraculous and making a reality-altering wish. which is exactly what happened. so she failed her mission. ladybug lost. and to me it’s sort of bizarre that the narrative seems to be framing that as a good thing? ladybug lost, but the new reality that resulted from it is so much better than the old one, and she is actively choosing to lie in order to protect the seeming goodness of that reality.

marinette is lying, of course, to protect adrien, which does not feel out of character. we’ve seen her do this before. but it is frustrating to me for precisely that reason. the final battle was meant to highlight how much marinette has grown over the past five seasons, but her choice here highlights the ways she has not grown. starting with syren in season 2, she has witnessed how much it hurts chat noir to be left in the dark and how it weakens their partnership. in that case, she convinced master fu to let him be in the know, and trust was restored. but then she continued a habit of keeping things from him, putting more and more distance between them, till it culminated with kuro neko in s4—a total breakdown of the ladynoir partnership, where chat noir renounced his miraculous. i would have thought that marinette would learn from that experience and realize that keeping people in the dark is harmful and that even if the truth hurts, adrien has a right to know it. but she once again made the decision for him, and when he finally finds out, it will be all the more painful to know that the person he loves and trusts most in the world lied to him. i actually really appreciate that marinette as a protagonist has such a good heart but is still such an imperfect character, so i want to respect this choice as a manifestation of her flawed but good intentions. i just can’t help but be really disappointed that after 5 seasons of making the same mistakes again and again, she has apparently not learned from them, which makes me feel she has not grown the way the writers say she has.

her facing hawkmoth alone for the final battle is supposed to be a sign of that growth—and yes, I can see how she has grown a lot in confidence and capability since her shaky debut as ladybug. but i also feel that her flying solo defies one of the central themes of miraculous: that in the fight against evil, good people need to stand together. just think of the difference between the s4 and the s5 finale. in strike back, ladybug is broken and sobbing because she has lost the miraculous and feels like a failure who is all alone. but then she is buoyed up by her faithful partner and all of paris, who express unbreakable faith in her and vow to stand by her side. that was so powerful! showing that she doesn’t have to be alone, and she’s not supposed to be alone, and that part of being a hero means accepting help and working with others to achieve good goals. this message was a major part of marinette’s character arc in s4 and it’s something that was introduced from the very beginning and has been supported over and over in the show. but then in “re-creation,” she has no team, and she doesn’t need one. which … good for her, I guess? But then why did we have 5 seasons of “you and me against the world” if in the end it was always going to culminate with “I'm sure we can figure out a solution if we work together. You … and me”—referring to Marinette and Gabriel, while Adrien is literally locked in a blank white prison hundreds of miles away?

it just really kills me that in kuro neko, adrien gave up his ring under the assumption that chat noir was not needed—that he was entirely useless to ladybug. and then the narrative proved him right. ladybug did not need chat noir to defeat monarch. she just needed his ring. the writers confirmed in their recent commentary that they had planned a bug noire fusion from the beginning, and they intentionally sidelined adrien so that could happen—they even had to figure out an excuse for why he wouldn’t be there. so they traumatized him with nightmares of destruction and fear of akumatization to ensure that he would once again give up his ring and conveniently remained locked away while bug noire faced down monarch alone.

you could argue that it’s better for adrien to have missed the final battle anyway, since facing his own father would just be even more traumatizing for him. i understand that. (that’s the reason i liked that in the owl house, it ended up being just luz vs belos, and hunter did not have to face him again.) but at the same time it feels so narratively unjust that chat noir—who has been fighting against hawkmoth by ladybug’s side since day 1—has zero part in seeing his mission through to the end. even though it’s all about him. because while marinette is the protagonist, adrien is the connecting piece of the whole story. it’s always been ladybug vs hawkmoth, and adrien is in the middle of them, because he’s both ladybug’s partner and gabriel’s son.

you’d think, logically, that as the connecting piece, Adrien’s decisions would be vital to the plot. That he’d have the power to tip it either way. but instead he is completely stripped of his autonomy—literally, because he’s a senti, and also symbolically in the narrative, because he’s simply removed from the equation. Like, he’s still central to the equation but he has no say in it. It’s all about him but he’s not even present. Everyone is fighting for him but he can’t fight for himself. Everyone is speaking for him but he doesn’t even have a voice.

the finale kind of sets up marinette and gabriel as narrative foils of each other, showing how they have the same motivation—to make adrien happy. and they make the same decision to protect that goal. which is interesting, sure, but also kind of effed up to me? i’m not sure what to take from the idea of the protagonist mirroring the antagonist in this way. that’s been done loads of times, but in this context, for a child audience, i don’t know what to make of it. what kind of message that is supposed to send to the children who are the primary audience of this show? ladybug is a good guy, and in the end, she’s just like the villain because they both love adrien and want to protect him. so that’s why she agrees to tell everyone the bad guy was a hero. ????

that gabriel/marinette parallel leaves adrien to parallel emilie, which makes sense and is fitting but also just sort of … depressing and again, lowkey effed up. that adrien ends up with the same narrative role as a corpse in a coffin. almost, like, macguffin-esque—a thing that motivates the agents of the story but has no agency itself. despite him being so central to both sides of the main conflict, his decisions don’t affect the outcome. because he doesn’t have the option to make any. because he’s not even present. both gabriel and marinette made a life-altering decision for adrien, thinking it was best for him, without considering that what’s best for him is to know his own story and make his own choices. him getting the rings was somewhat relieving, but it also felt like kind of a slap in the face. because it’s like, “look, adrien’s free! he has his amok and no one can control him anymore!” but, like, how free is a person who is living a lie? will he ever experience true autonomy, or will his life continue to be dictated by the decisions others make for him? will the narrative give him decision-making power or will his role continue to be symbolic?

one thing that makes this all extra dissatisfying is that Adrien literally does not have the option of getting closure with his father, because he’s dead. maybe a dramatic reveal in the middle of the final battle would not be the best way to go about it, but now he can’t have any sort of closure. in the owl house, it didn’t feel necessary for hunter to be present in the belos takedown because he already had his confrontation with belos in graveyard possession scene. belos tried to physically control him, and hunter broke free, and spoke his mind, and as traumatizing at is all was, it was good for him to be able to do that. it would’ve been so nice if adrien also had that opportunity. if he did break free from his father’s control, either by overcoming akumatization or the control of his amok somehow. or if not that, if he were just able to have one honest conversation with his father about emilie. like he did with his alt self in the paris special. it was so significant for the writers that bug noire detransformed and spoke to gabriel as marinette. why couldn’t adrien have done that? Marinette is the one to tell Gabriel that Adrien wouldn’t want him to make the wish and hurt someone else, that Adrien has made peace with his grief, that he has learned to cherish his mother’s memory without living in the past. wouldn’t that be even more powerful coming from adrien himself? if adrien was part of that final confrontation just as himself, we could even still have bug noire play a primary role.

i get that adrien being part of the battle is a risk, since we saw in chat blanc one option of how it could play out. but we also saw in the collector another potential way adrien might respond to learning that his father is hawkmoth—charging into battle by ladybug’s side. especially if he was given time to process the idea beforehand. it’s not impossible. you’d just have to compose the scene and its buildup a different way. so honestly it feels sort of lazy to just remove him for the sake of ease? and also sort of a waste of narrative potential? the villain being the father of one of the main characters is such an interesting plot element. imagine if luke skywalker did not ever face darth vader. if he never even learned that vader was his father. or if he learned that fact after vader’s death, which was the result of a confrontation he was not present for.

of course, i know adrien is not the protagonist. marinette is. and of course i want her to be empowered by the story. but i’m getting a little tired of what i see as kind of cheap feminism in ML. like, girl power for the sake of visibility so the writers can pat themselves on the back about it, if that makes sense? this show does have so much good feminist power with a strong female lead who has realistic flaws and a big heart, who overcomes self-doubt and other struggles, and who has proven time and again to be a smart, capable leader who has earned the trust of everyone on her team. but all of that sometimes feels undercut by the narrative treatment of adrien—like he has to be put down somehow to elevate marinette. ML has subverted gender roles in a lot of ways by having ladybug lead with her brain while chat noir follows with his heart. and adrien has a lot of other strong feminine associations—the focus on his physical appearance, the expectation of perfection and obedience, his soft and gentle nature, his romanticism, etc. And one of the biggest ones is all the ways he is trapped, all the ways he is pushed down and made to be submissive. they even depict him as a princess locked in a tower, with marinette as the knight in shining armor to save him from the evil dragon (his father). with adrien in that traditionally feminine role, it would have been empowering to see him to take a leading part in his own liberation. instead, he was locked away both literally and symbolically in favor of a solo bug noire confrontation, so marinette could look like a girlboss in her cool new outfit, taking on the bad guy all by herself, even when it would (imo) fit better with the themes of the show and her own character arc for her to fight alongside her partner. but as Thomas Astruc said, “She's Barbie, he's Ken. You don't like it. I get it. It won't change. Anything else?” (X) it just makes me feel that the writers cared more about the cinematic value and feminist brownie points of that battle than its narrative significance—which i feel could only be increased by adrien’s participation. “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing” … and that is all adrien was allowed to do.

i think a lot of fans at this point are just assuming that whatever feels dissatisfying/off will be fixed in s6. they’re trusting that the writers have a brilliant master plan that we just have to be patient and wait to see come together. idk, maybe i’m just tired. or a little jaded. i think there will be a lot to enjoy in s6, but i’m also prepared for disappointment. i honestly did not love many elements of s4 as well as s5, and i had expectations that weren’t fulfilled there either. i’ve felt let down by the writers many times now, so i expect that many of their future choices will  not resonate with me. but i still love ML, and I am eager to see how everything will unfold. i’ve also read a lot of other analyses of the s5 finale, and there are great points being made on many sides. this is just my personal interpretation and opinion. i did not like the finale when i first watched it, and after sitting on it for months and trying to evaluate my feelings and look at it logically, i still do not like it lol. if you do, great! this isn’t intended as a personal attack on anyone—just me expressing my two cents, which ended up being more like $20. thanks for bearing with me if you read all this ✌️