Tumgik
#The Boys meta
blindmagdalena · 5 months
Note
I do feel like it's important to also acknowledge that she's deeply traumatised and broken, but Maeve's also very much a shitty person for most of the show too. Starlight even calls her out more than once on how callous and selfish she is, like how Maeve's response to seeing a young woman crying in the bathroom after being sexually assaulted by someone she looked up to was to tell her to suck it up or she'll look weak. I know she's hardly the poster child for healthy coping mechanisms, but she's definitely no saint.
why does she need to be a saint? who ever said she is?
nothing in the show ever tries to tell us that Maeve is a good person. just a damaged one. most of her arc is the discussion of how she used to be a good person, and how she does want to be again.
to me, the callous and jaded version of her we see in s1 is incredible character work. it makes for SUCH an interesting moment when we see that contrasted against her begging Homelander to save flight 37. even two, just these two, please. of course, her begging falls on deaf ears because Homelander is more cruel and dispassionate about human life than Maeve will ever be, and ultimately she gives in and leaves with him, but i feel like that entire sequence SO succinctly sums up why Maeve is the way she is, and what their dynamic is.
“suck it up or you’ll look weak” was a caring moment for Maeve. that was the moment we knew she saw herself in Starlight. she didn’t mock her. she said ‘if you’re going to survive this, you’re going to have to be stronger.’
was it a kind response? a compassionate response? of course not. but at this point the show was illustrating to Starlight exactly what kind of world she has entered. everyone was awful, greedy, perverse, cruel, dog eat dog from the ground up. they’ve been exploited, and now they exploit in turn. a cycle of abuse.
Maeve said it herself: she gave away pieces of herself until there was nothing left to give. when they met, she had nothing left.
and yet. Starlight changed that. Annie reminded her of what it felt like to care about more than her own survival, which for a long time was the only thing she could afford to care about. i know we love Homelander around here, but i think we’ve lost the sense of how truly horrific living under his thumb must have been for her. how it eroded her capacity to care when again and again and again, in exactly the way we see it happen to Annie, she failed to prevent his cruelty.
Maeve serves exactly the narrative purpose she’s intended to: she shows who Starlight could become, and ultimately helps prevent it.
i don’t want saints. i want compelling, nuanced characters. Maeve IS that.
69 notes · View notes
temp-v · 2 months
Text
The Boys episode 2x3, minutes 54-56 are my butchie roman empire.
Why, you might ask? I have no time to take screencaps.
1. Butcher puts away the piece of paper that can lead him to Becca.
This isn't him giving up on her, no. But it's an acknowledgement that Butcher both is powerless to reach her right now, and that he has other responsibilities in his life—responsibilities he's been neglecting for her sake.
2. He moves over to the couch, sitting right next to Hughie. It's a big couch. Why you sitting so close, homie? ✨gay✨ He does sit down, and then lean just a little bit closer into Hughie's space.
3. number 2 was mostly a shitpost. The look they share immediately afterwards is not. This is 15 seconds of looking between the two of them, with prolonged eye contact in the middle.
Butcher is looking at Hughie like he matters, like he's someone worth comforting and saving. Like he's also a priority in Butcher's life—one worthy of competing with Becca (as implied by him symbolically putting her away).
Meanwhile, Hughie is looking up at Butcher, and for the first time all season, seeing legitimate care and camaraderie staring back at him.
Let's not mince words: The Boys is a very straight-leaning show.
The queer representation skews Sapphic (thus palatable to the more conservative fans), and the Achillean representation is almost entirely villains. Frenchie is a bisexual man, and that's valid—but the narrative only places importance on his romantic relationships with women. There was even the perfect opportunity for a MMF polycule, which they subverted with labeling the other man Frenchie's best friend.
So, when it comes to queer Achillian ships on The Boys, there's going to be a lack of narrative intent (at least there has been thus far). But hey, that simply allows us to analyze these more sparse scenes and enjoy what we can get out of them.
Do I want more Achillean rep? Yeah. But I'm not expecting apples from a lemon tree, here. If it happens, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
34 notes · View notes
Text
billy butcher and addiction--
felt there's a need for a good and proper analysis for this fucker (as well as i can manage, maybe throw in a bit of a rant on poor fandom etiquette, 'three laws of fandom' are an oldie but a goodie lol) so here we go i guess--
i wanna start by saying this is a full scope character deep dive (sortaish?? best i can do take it or leave it--lol i might go further in depth on specific scenes or whatnot later, i'm longwinded but i'm tryin' to condense as best i can for this, aaaaaaaaaaand long long post ahead--) that def includes elements solidly confirmed in dear becky and probably leans more on comics billy overall, but def does intertwine and interlock with show billy (as they are essentially the same, garth ennis' own words went something like 'he's a perfect billy butcher' lol)
i'll try to avoid spoilers (??) for the most part like dear becky, but there are some things that may need more context (there is quite a bit of in the show that works well enough to represent anyway but i guess we'll see how this goes, i may end up talking more about the show elements and how they parallel with comics billy anyway)
i also think it's worth mentioning that there's a lot to billy (especially in the comic) i feel fandom either ignores, dismisses or doesn't want to acknowledge, or just doesn't notice.
whether from personal bias/prejudice, desire (fitting billy into that 'alpha's alpha' toxic masculinity 'dom top' fever dream 'mold' so to speak, probably--no, definitely the *worst* way to interpret and easiest way bungle up his character, it completely misses the fact that billy has built *that* 'daddy approved' version of himself as a *facade* to *hide* his own shame and insecurity, and he is *so* much more complex than that nonsense (and genuinely uncomfortable and unhappy being that way-beyond the subtle guilt of a constant high). can we talk about the ways in which fandoms promote and perpetuate toxic masculinity--what, no time we'll be here all week?? oh, okay. jesus fucking christ that is exactly as bad if not worse than the maga chud interpretation and unironic worship of homelander--), lack of personal experience/familiarity, understanding--fuck it, even lack of education in media analysis or reading comprehension (if not both), and *especially* being pro-censorship/americentric/*stuck* with purity culture blinders (or even some part of them lingering)
all of those can def make media (and characters like billy) that isn't 'cookie cutter america-approved' fairly difficult to understand or accept (i guess??)
i've seen so much listed to hell and back in attempts to describe comics billy. 'he's a piece of shit' *YES*. 'he's just wish fulfillment for the author's hatred of superheroes' *no*??? let me not get into the complete hypocrisy of someone who writes or enjoys fanfic--the epitome of *wish fulfilment*--unironically complaining about other authors doing this and thinking it's a legit complaint. how does *anyone* read the entire story and come to *that* conclusion???
did you even bother reading the comic? no, i don't mean glossing over it with a completely closed mind while actively ignoring and dismissing everything important put in front of you and designed to make you think because the blood and guts or other is too distracting apparently, i mean *actually* reading it thoroughly and making an effort to think about what's being presented and why, waiting for the drop *instead* of jumping to judge (as is the american way)
and to some degree, i get it. i wouldn't say this comic is the easiest to digest (especially if completely unfamiliar with many of the themes presented, even the show has sparked some ass takes and interpretations) there's also plenty of common misconceptions, one in particular about garth ennis 'hating' superheroes. this is actually not true, what he hates is how the superhero *genre* has bottlenecked the comics industry and what is more likely to see success in it (and as a fellow creative, i completely understand how frustrating that would be, his main interest is actually war stories)
it's def one thing to say, 'nah, i don't vibe with the style' or 'it's not really for me/my taste but it's fine if others like it', i get that, satire and horror aren't for everyone. honest critique is fair even.
but it is a whole 'nother thing entirely to pretend your own personal tastes are *the only 'correct' creative law* and then *vehemently* oppose or hate something an artist created and denounce, harass, or fuck--dehumanize the people who enjoy it, if not the artists who work(ed) on it.
i'm sorry, this is a tangent cause it's def not limited to the hate the boys comics or ennis gets *at all*, it's especially prevalent in *literal* kids media like teen titans go where the thing in question is simply put--*NOT MADE FOR THE SHITHEADS NONSTOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT* when they can literally, *LITERALLY* just *accept* that they weren't the *target audience* and move the fuck on with their day, happy as can be. *instead* of shitting on something *or the people who like it* to make literal *children* or other people feel bad about liking it.
it's one thing to try and educate people or have discourse and discussion, it is another entirely to *bully* them over something so *stupid* as *fiction*.
i especially have a problem with this shit when i have *several* artists tell me that they don't feel *safe* or *welcome* being themselves, liking or creating what *they* want to make in a fandom *because* of the fandom attitude and normalization of *hate* within that fandom.
i *thought* fandoms were supposed to be about *love* so what the fuck is this human tribalist false dichotomy bullshit??
and of course, that's not always the case. there is also an unbelievable level of respect that is given to fanartists and fanfiction writers, and that is *beautiful*. 'don't like, don't read'. *PERFECT*. curate your own content, complain or rant in your own spaces--you're entitled to an opinion, but *accept* that it still has a right to exist and other people still have a right to love it (and aren't wrong for that, opinions cannot be objective), *even if you don't like it*. just don't engage then, it's that simple.
now extend that level of courtesy to the people, artists and writers in the industry.
no, i'm not trying to shut down criticism of media, proper critique is how we learn and grow and understand better and in turn *create* better. yes, they can fumble the fucking bag too, especially when adapting something from a source material and--like *some* fanfic writers out there--think they can do it 'way better'.
but the people in the industry? who bend over backwards, going on strike in some cases, breaking their necks to work on and create the things that we *love* and latch onto?
they're people too. and whether the thing they make goes *exactly* how we want or not, however you feel about the money in the entertainment industry (which they see barely a dime of if those fucking strikes and constant mistreatment are any indication), they don't deserve to be treated like scabs.
that mentality of 'not my personal taste = universally bad' and 'anyone who disagrees with my opinion is wrong' is fucking gross and *extremely elitist*, just straight up announcing how pretentious, obtuse, willfully arrogant and ignorant, and *lacking in self awareness*--the number one easiest way to be the *shittiest* kind of artist/writer/critic--you are. it is *exactly* like cishet white men complaining about something being 'bad' because it's 'woke' or has anything *besides* a cishet white man for the protagonist.
*god forbid something isn't tailor made specifically for them.*
swear to gawd, i got a list of different bullshit and circle jerking i've seen all across different fandoms for different reasons. no i'm not mad at any one person in particular, just a little salty from recurring problems and gatekeeping (ghoulfucking-GHOULFUCKING OF ALL THINGS I--I CANNOT) if not straight up bullying (does it really make a bitch feel *so* much better to try and hurt other people for liking what they, and let's be honest, are not willing to give the time of day?) in fandoms. (the complete audacity of people to complain about a media being 'childish' or 'bad' because 'insert nonsensical trivial bullshit here that holds no weight because it's personal taste if not flat out wrong and not actual critique' and then turn around and throw the biggest fucking tantrums about it--let me not get into the whole sharon carter debacle jesus christ--)
same shit. different pile.
also, fuck me. i keep *forgetting* that genuinely valid critique (*not* personal taste/opinion, proper critique pertains to things like techniques used, composition, narrative consistency and plot holes, goals of the artist/writer, accomplishments of those goals, etc.) is something that needs proper education and understanding all on its own which not a whole ton of people get or even know, which just goes to show--i'm a dumbass too. (but i won't deny that plenty of 'critics' are full of shit and *know* this but use their 'personal taste' as 'critique' *anyway* because... they enjoy being complete assholes and discouraging other artists i guess.)
y'all, take a class or two in art critique and literature analysis. you'll learn all the cool lingo (to later forget if you're like me~), and maybe (hopefully) walk out with a bit more of an open mind wanting to encourage more art in the world, even if you don't personally like it. take a moment to *listen* to differing opinions in their *entirety* and you might even gain a new perspective.
*no one* should be ashamed to ask questions or admit they don't know or understand something and fuck the people that would make you feel that way. *we can and should help each other.*
but stagnant or hostile fandoms with no self awareness and perpetuated elitism circle jerks? *really* fucking shameful, regardless of the form or where they are.
ANYWHO--
ugh, fuck. okay. i think i'm done with that tangent, back on topic--
BILLY BEAN~<3
and i want to reiterate that *again*, dear becky *does* confirm pretty much everything i'm going to discuss here tho technically speaking, nothing is spoiled here as it's just reiterating what is implicit (if not stated outright) throughout the series.
as far as dear becky goes, it's a good final gut-wrenching piece to the series and i loved it, but it definitely leaned on more of 'tell' instead of 'show, don't tell' (no duh in context, but probably because the rest of the comic did the 'show'--very well imo but it still flew over peoples' heads and made them misplace their brains--i'm sorry, i've just lost so much patience for the lack of reading comprehension and media literacy, but honestly? ennis is genuinely too good at knowing how to spark a strong emotional reaction in readers. and can we talk about the dense mofos that *make* authors have to 'tell' just to confirm something that is heavily implied--what, no time? oh, fuck, fine.)
OKAY--
addiction.
what about it, and why am i mentioning it. well. because if it's not clear by now, william butcher is an addict.
and it is one of, if not the core element that drives him to do what he does.
not becky or becca. not justice.
addiction.
and i don't mean traditional substance abuse (though he admits there has been as much in his life, especially with alcohol, his drug of choice is a bit more complex and maybe not so easy to spot on the surface for those unfamiliar with addiction).
in the show, we even see him mention that he's 'done 'em all' and there's *nothing* like temp v--and it's because temp v *amplifies* his *addiction* to the highest level it could exist on.
something else to note, there's a ton of stigma and widespread (ableist) misconception surrounding addiction still (which may be part of why people may not want to recognize it in billy), but it is absolutely a clinical mental disorder and people who suffer from it should be treated as *medical patients*, not reduced to violent criminals and scumbags. (fuck you drug war and prohibition, you are the root of organized crime and you're racist as shit.) it's also possible to become addicted to *anything*. and i mean *anything*.
if you can repeat a behavior and your brain no longer cares whether or not that behavior is causing you harm because there is a *compulsive* urge for that *repetition* or a specific result from it? that is addiction. money, anger, pain, violence, self harm, attention, love...
you'd think the last one might be okay, but it's not. it's an easy way to get caught in the infinite loop of an abusive relationship, just with promise of it. no delivery necessary.
but it doesn't have to be drugs that cause addiction. hell, gambling addiction is a thing all it's own that can get *incredibly* severe.
and listen, too much of *anything* can be horrible for you. fucking coconut will give you the runs if you eat too much that shit is *not* fun pun intended--
i digress.
in billy's case? he's actually addicted to two i just listed.
violence. and self harm.
i mentioned before that what drives billy has next to nothing to do with what happened to becky or becca.
there's a common misconception that, at the end of the day, billy does have some level of good intent behind his actions, and to a degree this is true in the *complete reverse* of what people often assume, and this is proven repeatedly in both the show (with just what we have seen) and comic (where its laid out too heavily to ignore).
setting aside the fact that there's *never* a good 'rEaSoN' to commit or even attempt *genocide* (EVER. i have ZERO patience for the constant apologism of this bullshit, SWEAR TO GAWD FANDUMB--) and billy's genocidal tendencies on their own, the idea that 'he goes after homelander for becca' or 'justice' has been completely debunked.
'justice is not vengeance'
something to always keep in mind.
but... in the first season? hughie called him out on this.
butcher calls him a 'disgrace to robin's memory', and hughie--bless his little heart, responds with 'i think i'm doing this *for* her.'
it's an interesting response, because hughie is essentially saying--
'you'll *die* for this woman, but that's not what she would have wanted. i'm going to *live* for robin, and for *annie*, because *that's* what she would have wanted.'
and he's absolutely right. billy loved becca, would have died for her. but he refuses to listen and *live* for her.
the group therapist too even before hughie. she literally laid it all out, front and center in the clearest way possible, 'it's a defense mechanism', and then butcher had his little meltdown just before telling hughie about becca, everything he can, including *using* other peoples tragedies and his own *specifically* to manipulate hughie and try and make sure *starlight* can't *save* him from what butcher is trying to turn him into.
*so that hughie stays stuck on his reason to die, instead of finding one to live.*
in the second season, *becca* herself calls him out on this, multiple times.
'you put me on this pedestal but i never knew how to save you'.
'--i didn't come to you, i went to vought--.'
and that's just it, becca (and becky in the comic) is *intimately* familiar with billy's *addiction* and the underlying mental health issues he *wouldn't address*. she didn't tell him what happened even after the shock of it because she *knew* that it would just become a reason for billy to *give in* and be his worst self to a degree where she would *lose him* regardless of what she felt or asked for from him.
she felt she had to *suffer in silence* to *protect him* from *himself*, something that ends up *destroying* her.
becca wanted to *save* billy, but more importantly, she wanted *him* to *save himself* because she *believed in him*, *so much*.
'i never wanted that for you.'
she doesn't want billy to drown and suffer or cause harm in his own hatred and addictions. she *loved* him so much so, that she was willing to *drown herself* if it meant she could save *him*. she loved him *too much*.
billy's mum too, even tries to help in her own way. (she is much less aware of billy's activity in the comic, but we'll come back to her. for the show, this was likely in response to seeing the news about *stillwell*, something his dad fucking *praised* him for)
'--that he wouldn't have this hold on you--'
billy's actions are almost entirely driven by the *addiction* his father forced on him. on doing the things that would make his 'daddy' *proud*. and the thing is, he's *fully aware* of this.
he constantly *says* that *becca* is his 'reason', that she was his *cure*, but she's the *excuse*. his *new addiction* and *self medication* (also billy, you fucking cunt you *know* what you do and have no leg to stand on when it comes to self medicating--)
both in the worst of what he does and his rejection of addressing his own traumas, and she is *unwilling* in this endeavor. she never wanted this hate to consume him, she never wanted all of this death with her name as the signature, *she never wanted billy to be his father*, much less be something much worse.
he even admits as much in the third season when he hallucinates lenny who tells him his actions would 'break becca's heart'
billy responds something along the lines of 'becca's dead, it doesn't matter what she thinks'. (a line presented in the comic even more harshly, but it drives the point home perfectly.)
when he sees lenny again in his nightmare--
'i'm not that bastard--.'
'come off it billy, you always have been. cause anyone who's ever loved you, you end up gettin' 'em killed, don't ya--.'
'--the last person on god's green earth tryin' to stop you from bein' a monster, and what do you do? drag him down to your level... when he dies... and he will... then no can stop you.'
OOF OUCH OWIE--. the lenny stuff hits so damn hard but it represents *perfectly* what butcher's own *internalized beliefs* are.
mallory calls him out on it literally every season.
'--but billy! not the others!'
'it's like asking a cockroach to not be a cockroach--'
'--because it wouldn't stop with just homelander--'
'this was never about ryan or becca, it was always selfish. the hate inside that you want to let loose on the world.'
'--i was wrong... you are your father, always have been...'
and then there's billy's subsequent impulsive reaction to push ryan away, and *be his father*.
but hell, even in gen v when mallory is speaking to shetty.
and truthfully, billy was even showing *withdrawal* symptoms at the beginning of the third season.
billy himself, even *self punishes*, picking fights he knows he *won't* win as a way to counterbalance *and* satisfy his own addiction, infinite loop. vicious cycle.. (ooh i will def be coming back to the big one here--), and we see this in one *HUGE* way, and in many many smaller ways, but even in the more literal sense of going to bars, starting trouble, and laughing or smiling when he's getting beat the fuck up or *losing*.
it's even highlighted in the show, billy *seeking out violence* and conflict whether he should or not, *especially* when unnecessary. getting his own face busted up and smiling because of it is something that happens multiple times in the comic (even on accident in one instance), and is def given a place in the show. it's easy to pass off as billy simply being a masochist (which is def true lmao he does admit as much), but there's also more to it than that and it goes hand in hand with his *addiction* and--
what he thinks he deserves.
billy *hates himself* so *severely* that he actually *does not believe* that he is capable of the *good* that others, such as lenny, becca, his mum, and hughie are willing to *see* in him. he *completely* believes it when others say that 'he is his father' (internalizes it, struggles with it, and frequently acts on it).
he puts on a show. bravado, posture, and 'confidence'. and he's so good at putting on that front, that he can fool himself, even for a moment. and those that believe it will even *enable* him. and the people he feels *nothing* for? again, he maintains the front. he lives his life *masking*, *faking it*--so fucking hard. homelander could never--
and it's not even necessarily the result of toxic masculinity. don't get me wrong, he def has some issues with that lingering (y'all, if you have *say* you're an 'alpha' and posture out your sweet little ass off 24/7, you're def *not* an 'alpha' lmfao), but it's more so his own *trauma* that forces him to *cling* to that.
but when he *loves*, and he loves *deeply*, he completely rolls over and shows his belly like a kitten<3... when he was with becky, he was happy and comfortable, and all of that *ridiculousness* just melted away completely... he didn't feel any need for it because he felt *safe*, because this constant *insecurity* and feeling of being *threatened* all the damn time looming overhead had suddenly cleared up with becky there.
it's not even so much that billy doesn't feel fear. he might not traditionally (at all if his amygdala is damaged), but considering the fight or flight response, billy's *default* setting literally *is* that *fight* response. he's the way he is because he is *always* afraid and he's been conditioned for it to manifest itself as *rage*.
we see bits of his love come through in a few moments he has with people he has genuine care for. (the way he loves his mum and she instantly calms him down is genuinely so sweet.)
but it's always gonna come back down to 'daddy dearest'.
because of him, *billy is afraid of living*.
and--
his father. *is proud of him*.
billy is *just like him* or *everything he wanted to be* as a *man*, or at least is compelled to *project* this on the surface. and everything in *billy* that *is* his father, *just like him*, is *everything* that billy *hates*. so it manifests into an *intense* self loathing and spiraled addiction that magnifies the worst of what his father *forced* on him.
he *doesn't want* to be *his father*, but he feels, and fully believes that *he already is*. his self hatred is another form of *hating his father*, because *he is that man's legacy*.
so *billy* doesn't *believe* that he deserves love or goodness or care from other people (a parallel we see in homelander, presented a bit differently.) so he 'doesn't care'. makes excuses to not care (about people in general, if not just the very *prominent* antisocial tendencies), or leave, or push them away, lashing out to give *them* the excuse to leave him, because he is *afraid* and in his own mind, *unworthy*.
he's *afraid* of being loved, of *losing* that love, of *hurting* those he loves. he is *afraid* of being his own father.
but it's all he's ever known, all he's ever been *conditioned* to be. intoxicated, ever present, it's this terrible thing that destroys him but he *can't* stop. *addiction*.
and what better way to protect those he loves than to keep himself as *far* away from them as possible? than to *make* them hate him. than to do the *wrong* thing, to *disappoint* them. self sabotage. self punishment.
he can't stop himself. he deserves it.
lather, rinse, repeat.
so what does that mean for homelander, or even the reason he goes after homelander? the *real* reason.
'there must be *some* good in him because homelander 'must be' this 'ultimate evil that *must* be stopped', right?
not really. he's a symptom of a much greater evil, but he was never the root of it. if billy really wanted to solve the problems at hand and get *justice*, he'd go after *vought*, NOT homelander.
homelander is not even the real villain in *billy's* mind, in all actuality.
what homelander *is*?
temptation.
he is... the *ultimate* final high for billy. in terms of addiction to both *violence* and *self punishment*.
he doesn't actually go after homelander because he wants to 'stop him' or even kill him. not really. there are times billy starts a fight *expecting* to *lose*, *wanting* it. homelander *is* one of those times to the most intense degree that billy could find. and he even senses this when they first meet--unnecessarily, privately insulting the man because why?
because he feels *threatened*. because he feels *insecure*. because if homelander is *truly good*, even with *all that power*--
then billy has no fucking excuse--
it is, in essence, the same exact reaction that lex luthor has to superman. forcing himself to *challenge* him because of a *constant* sense of *fear*. (except lex *is* afraid of dying, so 1000% a huge coward lmao--)
but~, when he finds out homelander is *bad*?
homelander is billy's *failsafe*
to stop the person he feels is the most terrible evil of all *and* to set the world on fire in the process. a way for billy to kill two birds with one stone. compelled by his addiction to *chase* this ideation relentlessly.
homelander is to billy--his ultimate end, self punishment, a death wish, a *suicide attempt*.
and a way to *unleash his hatred onto the rest of the world*, *to make it burn*, even after his death. (this would be why despite many many MANY warnings to *not* push homelander *because of the catastrophe this will ultimately instigate and the loss of life this is bound to result in*--billy does not give a shit about the potential consequences. he welcomes them--)
if homelander were a *nuke*, billy would want to *launch* him. right now, homie is more like the *demon core*, incredibly dangerous and in some instances lethal, but not *yet* explosive.
billy *wants* the *warhead*.
it was why he got *so excited* at the *chance* of homelander offering him 'scorched earth'.
the man read billy like an open fucking book, and set the bait--
y'all, in other words, homie straight up went to billy's house and offered *crack* to the *crack addict*--fuck yeah he's gonna take that offer!
homelander never actually perceives billy as a real threat *at all* (safe to say, this is the main reason he doesn't kill him. there's a bit of personal complex combined with the deals/blackmail/request involved, but this would also be why he doesn't *hesitate* to 'kill' billy at herogasm. he genuinely gives no fucks about this poor man or his many anal complexes and daddy issues beyond the mild entertainment he gets from him and just how *easy* it is to read billy or rile him up. maybe a *dash* of novelty being found in billy's obsession with him. i'll go into the homie side of things in depth maybe someday soon lol but for now--)
and here's the thing, homelander isn't the *only* failsafe. he is simply the *ultimate failsafe*
included in all the possible bad habits billy has is pawning off his *responsibility* and personal accountability, even his *will to do good* onto others.
i mentioned before that becca (becky) was like a new addiction for him. and she was. in a sense, billy was using her to self medicate. she loved him, gave him love and made him feel good, no pain, no shame--but also no pause to think about that pain, self hatred and self doubt and actively address it. she was a way to not worry about his own *goodness* because she was an *easy* reason for him to *want* to be good.
and something important to note?
billy feels that he has *cheated* on becca/becky *since* the day she left/died. (there's a whole ass deliciously intricate story there but i'm trying to avoid the spoilers lmao. kind of a freebie hint i guess.)
lenny and hughie similarly make an effort to *hold butcher back* and reach out to him. (everyone does honestly, but not everyone is so successful with it). and butcher lets them, but *also* removes the agency of his own choice in the matter.
he doesn't just *let them* make him *good*, he doesn't believe he's capable of stopping himself on his own--but he believes in *them* because they *are* good, *truly good*.
hughie all on his own is *another kind of failsafe* and lo and behold, even calls butcher out on this by the end of the third season (theme is prevalent in the comic a lil different but again spoilers lol):
Tumblr media Tumblr media
'i don't think you want to do this. i think you want me to stop you.'
*ding*ding*ding*!
nail on the head, hughie... butcher does not believe he can stop himself. so he sets up *failsafes* to do as much.
and let me just say, it is *unbelievably* shitty of him to do that, to pawn off the responsibility of his own behavior, whether good or pure evil onto other people. but i get it. and it fucking breaks my heart for him.
because *that* is addiction. it feels like mind control. aggressive compulsion. you feel ashamed, and hate yourself, and don't care if you hurt yourself or even others. but you keep *hoping*, *wishing*, *leaving a breadcrumb trail* so that *someone*, *anyone*, will come along and--
*save you. from you.*
and when you stop believing in yourself, in your own willpower to fight against this *thing* that just completely *destroys* you from the inside out... without *anyone* on your side, what else is left to do but to numb the pain?
i was able to recognize billy's addiction right off the bat because i've *been* to a lot of the places he has been. including the addiction. and he makes me so *fucking* mad because it's like seeing a version of myself *still stuck*, *still lost*, *still trapped* by my own issues and self loathing, and all of the abuse i've gone through--
and the biggest fuck up, the biggest *abuser* is me.
i can't *escape* me. *no one* can escape *themself*.
that fucker breaks my heart to pieces because *i have been there*, and i know just how fucking hard it is to *be* there, just how much harder it is to *get out* and start to *learn*--*who is it you really wanna be? who are you without this drug?*
and something he even says in the comics on a few occasions is--
'i'm not really here, i'm somewhere else watching this happen'
asserting that he *truly* believes that he has *no control* over *what* he is. (in contrast with homelander, who feels the weight of something similar but more literally in some regard, and in relation to so many other aspects in his life with the world around him.)
billy butcher *is* the *true villain* of *his own story*
of his own making.
he's not after homelander or even vought. he doesn't blame society or even his father at this point. he blames himself. and he's *given up* entirely on fighting himself. he's looking for his *overdose*.
*that's homelander*
ain't that a kick in the head...
it's part of what makes their relationship and dynamic so incredibly electric and titillating. it's got nothing to do with becca or becky.
butcher sees homelander as an easy way out. as a way to control the narrative, *maintain his own*, and *stop the bad guy* without bringing someone *good*, like *hughie*, down to his level.
he *sees* the parallels, a kindred spirit. he *knows* the potential. and he wants to be the *spark* to light all that *gasoline*.
because then it won't be his fault anymore. his *guilt*. he'll have passed on his *curse*.
likewise, he actually goes after supes in general for a similar enough reason, and it ties in with why he *doesn't* go after vought directly.
billy actually *likes* the status quo. to a degree, *needs* it, *needs vought*
because *vought* is the *creator* of his *supply*, feeding this addiction. and we hear billy say this in both the comic and show--
'with great power comes the absolute certainty that you'll turn into a right cunt.'
and billy actually believes this--about himself.
when he says it about other supes and even his intense hatred of them, it is a *projection* of his own issues and what he believes to be true for himself (that he would do the absolute worst thing imaginable given the opportunity). and in a way, going after them is in some ways a metaphor for stopping and destroying himself, hating himself, as much as it is a way to maintain his addiction.
and--
maintain the narrative he has built--that he is the true villain.
and if that's the case, well... it takes a *hero* to stop a *villain*, right?
but also--y'all remember that scene in the suicide squad where polkadot man imagines everyone as his mum? how he imagines starro as his mum?
yeah, that.
that's basically billy. every fucking supe, including starlight, and kimiko, and let's *really* not talk about what this means about him sleeping with maeve in context with his 'supe=daddy' issues, but even the person he sees in the mirror. *all of them* are *his father*.
listen, i'm not kidding. billy's daddy issues are seriously severe, so fucking bad, i--
his actions aren't for becca or becky or ryan or justice. even he *knows* that's bullshit and admits as much (which just makes fandom denying it that much more fucked). but they're not even *just because* or because he's genocidal, antisocial, or anything else. he *does* want someone to stop him. he's sane enough to recognize his actions for what they truly are *behind* the mask.
billy's actions are a volatile and violent *cry for help*, because he never learned how to *ask*, or even how to *believe in himself*.
he never truly learned that *he never had to be his father*, and he didn't *need* becky or becca, lenny or hughie to *be good*.
i actually think billy's greatest magic trick is convincing even the audience and readers that he is a *total*, complete piece of shit. and don't get me wrong, he is *def* a huge, massive, incredibly rank and ripe piece of shit--.
and y'all, i'm sorry if you believed him and got played like a damn fiddle, him and homie def throwin' in some hard balls--
but he's also still human. he also still needs just as much if, honestly? maybe even more, fucking *help* than homelander. which kind of draws back into their parallels. the tomfoolery of fandom might have you believe that billy is less complex or more put together than homelander, but their situations go hand in hand and the evidence suggests (if not confirms) something quite different.
billy's plight and even goal in some sense is *convincing the rest of his world that he is a monster*. driven by the addiction his father gave him. enabled by the world around him.
homelander's? it's actually the complete opposite. his struggle is with *his world convincing him that he is a monster*, and in turn, against his own instincts, *growing* into that role. when in reality, he never got the chance to decide for himself, it was decided *for* him a long long time ago.
'i think, therefore i am.'
'i can, therefore i must.'
however, *our actions cannot define who we are, because we can choose our actions*. good or bad are not something you inherently *are*, they are something you *choose to do*.
it paints what in turn becomes quite the brutal and tragic picture when these two forces meet. homelander and billy are both of the mindset that they *don't have a choice*.
and this bit is a bit more of a personal thought, but regarding billy's mum, she was *becky*. she was sweet, and kind, and cared for her family more than anything. *it didn't matter what she suffered, she was willing to drown if it meant saving the people she loved*.
as much as i adore how cute becca and billy were, i don't think she would have saved him.
i think the implication is that she would have either 'drowned' trying and become his mum, history repeating itself in a vicious cycle as billy spread his disease to any child they could have.
or that she would have lost her mind. and in turn *become* the person billy spread his disease to, if not another enabler for him. if not billy's choice of drug, maybe she would have taken up something else and eventually overdosed. i would even say the show implies this outcome with both becca and hughie, as the more butcher pushes--the more worn down they get.
if you put enough pressure on someone--they break.
becca was *good* for him. but billy was so, so fucking *bad* for her.
it begs the question of whether or not billy *is* right, if he really is this monster, *fated* to become his father in the worse of ways. of whether or not it's too late for him.
he's certainly not 'normal' or 'right' or 'good' or even an 'anti-hero'. at best, you could maybe call him an 'anti-villain', he is meant to be the deuterantagonist.
it def doesn't help that every time he has the *chance* to do the right thing, *someone* goes and enables him, gives him a reason to do the *wrong* thing.
fucking maeve in that last episode of the third season. but she's def not the only one, and def not the only time. (and yes, if it wasn't clear enough, being completely fucking indifferent to killing *thousands* of people to go after *one* fucking guy is in fact, the *wrong* thing to do.)
butt.
rewatching the scenes with lenny and billy's reaction, and even the final fight, showed something of a *possible* silver lining.
billy *enjoys* rejecting his father. actually pretty fucking greatly if we're being honest. generally speaking, it's when he *rejects* his father and everything that man represents that billy is at his *happiest* (lmao the epitome of an unfulfilled submissive sweetheart and bratty bossy bottom~<3<3<3)
there's a moment, where soldier boy says something along the lines of--
'--fuck you. you're weaker than he is.'
in regards to homelander. it's sort of glossed over, but this is billy's reaction to essentially being called a 'disgrace' so to speak by a toxic 'alpha male'.
Tumblr media
y'all see that? it's a smile. lmao a smirk.
this is a moment where billy is protecting *ryan* and keeping his promise to becca. it's a moment where billy is *doing the right thing*, all on *his own* (mostly lol i'm sure there's a roundabout way to justify it in his head). and i think that's key.
it's not just a moment he's proud of himself and has a legitimate fucking reason to be proud of himself, (oh btw, we shoulda *all* been proud of billy in this moment), it's a moment he's *breaking through what his father made him* and his own *addiction*.
and he's doing it *selflessly* and--*without setting that responsibility on another person*.
so we *know* he has it in him, he always has. even becky *in the comic* kept trying to convince billy that *he is capable of good without her*. and again, we actually saw this in the second season when becca and ryan were reunited and billy *changed* his plans, *for becca*, instead of doing the selfish thing and selling ryan back to vought.
but if billy doesn't believe it himself...
i don't think billy is right about himself. but it is very *very* difficult for someone to *correct course* so to speak, once they have their *core beliefs*, lay out their own destiny and start along a *self fulfilling prophecy*, something him and homelander *both* do.
enter ryan.
and suddenly (lol probably in part due to reading dear becky lol), there was a bit of... not so much new, as *confirmed* perspective in play after that rewatch, something to *look* for and ponder in regards to *why* ryan may have been added for this story, a question in mind--
'would it be wrong of *ryan* to want to save his father?'
was it wrong of becca or becky, hughie or lenny, even his mum, to want to save billy?
how would *billy* even begin to answer such questions?
a different answer for the two would be a clear hypocritical bias (which lol i would not put past billy, but i also wouldn't be surprised if he maintained consistent thinking by answering *yes* to both)
. . .
y'all...
i still can't say i'm particularly optimistic about things turning out alright for either gent or ryan, butt~<3
garth ennis literally made the saddest, most pathetic, deliciously sweet, perfectly precious, extra emo tsun tsun baby boi ever, and put him right under our noses.
some a y'all fucking sneezing all over him, straight up sleepin' on all his *best* bits. how are we not utilizing billy butcher *properly~<3<3<3*????
;)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
21 notes · View notes
deliciouskeys · 4 months
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media
🤔🤔🤔
Hmmm. I actually think Homelander does have a grandiose sense of self-importance. But if Billy Butcher doesn’t lack empathy, I don’t think you can say HL completely lacks it. He has more than SB toward his progeny at the very least. I would also argue keeping his relationship with SF going that long when she was pretty incapacitated requires some level of empathy but I guess that’s contestable.
Anyway, this book just arrived, so maybe I should read it cover to cover before I start excerpting stuff from the middle. @blaacknoir there is a whole chapter on Noir and his relationship to other characters in this book and it’s good!
Get it on Voughtazon.
43 notes · View notes
ishomieokay · 3 months
Text
This may sound crazy, but I've been thinking about it and I'm convinced that Stillwell was the one who decided to use Homelander's blanket as part of the scenography.
I mean, think about it. Nothing at the house was real. Why was the blanket even on the set? However you look at it, it makes no sense unless someone brought it along intentionally. And no one on the set knew about Homelander's real childhood except Madelyn.
Did she know how it would affect him? Taking into account how scared she was of him, probably not. Or maybe she did, and was willing to take the risk just to provoke an emotional reaction for the cameras. Yes, I am convinced people at Vought are that evil.
Either way it just goes to show how little regard both her and everyone at the company had for his feelings. He was really just a toy to them 😞
I mean, imagine that you were held captive, tortured and experimented on for years, and then when you are finally free(ish) someone brings you the blanket you used back at your old cell? Like, seriously that shit was psychopathic. Literally meltdown inducing. I would NOT have handled that as well as Homelander did, and that's shocking tbh, because it's Homelander.
28 notes · View notes
xieyaohuan · 3 months
Text
Stan Edgar's and Homelander's relationship: my two cents
Tl;dr: Stan Edgar's show-canon relationship with Homelander presumes (and loosely establishes) the relationship between comics Homelander and James Stillwell, including James' Stillwell's extreme confidence vis-à-vis Homelander, which explains a lot of Stan's more insane choices provoking Homelander, but I remain naively hopeful that the show also means to show us in the end that he has miscalculated.
Following up on this post trying to figure out what the hell Stan Edgar's end game is with Homelander, I just want to add a small point to what I think is an excellent discussion because I think you can't really answer the question of Stan's intentions via-à-vis Homelander without establishing what the show-canon relationship between the two is supposed to be (even if the execution is done badly). Personally, I think show canon tries to do one of two things: 1. take the canon relationship in the comics and twist it by having "James Stillwell"/Stan Edgar miscalculate or 2. take the canon relationship in the comics and keep "James Stillwell"/Stan Edgar as the mastermind. My guess (and hope) is that they are going for number 1, but who knows, maybe there's some secret third option.
Either way, what is clear is that the show is trying to replicate, in some form, the dynamic that exists between Homelander and James Stillwell in the comics. That's apparent when Stan Edgar tells Starlight that Homelander will stay in line as long as he is in charge, which is supposed to establish that Stan Edgar is 100% confident in his ability to manage Homelander no matter what.
(It is also hinted at from Homelander's perspective when they replicate the comics plot point that Homelander is confused by/scared of his blood pressure/heart rate/whatever other readings he gets, and when he wonders if Stan Edgar is the headpopper because he thinks he must be a very powerful supe due to his lack of fear.)
Tumblr media
Seriously, I think the sentence above is central to understanding the relationship. BUT, interestingly, when he says "and we both know why", the viewer doesn't know why, and this is where the show could have really done a better job explaining it.
This is a problem with many of the points taken directly from the comics because they are casually imposed on the show without properly "translating" them to the new medium and the new storyline to actually make them significant to the show (instead of just mentioning them on the side). Another good example of this is Maeve's alcoholism. We see her drinking in S1E1 during a work meeting, then we don't see her drinking in meetings again though she still has occasional drinks, and in S3, she tells Butcher she's been sober for X months. But that's really all we see of it -- it never becomes a major point in her character arch and gets lost easily. So from a storytelling perspective, that's dissatisfying. Either weave the point properly into the character's arch, or leave it out entirely.
So anyway, back to the main point, which is that the show presumes the relationship from the comics and makes it visible here and there. I think they do a slightly better job with Homelander and his relationship with Stan "James Stillwell" Edgar than with Maeve's relationship with alcohol, but the point is still not translated very well. However, what we can take away from it is that for whatever Stan Edgar does, he always proceeds from the assumption that he has Homelander 100% under control, same as when James Stillwell tells an enraged Homelander, who has come to kill him, to do it already because he is bored out of his mind by his rant.
That is the level of confidence that should be assumed behind every single of Stan's actions that affect Homelander. My personal take is he takes some joy in humiliating Homelander and getting away with it, especially since this person he considers largely irrelevant to the company's bottom line has just given him a ton of extra work.
I did also consider the possibility that Stan is doing this strategically to show who the real boss is and bring Homelander back under his thumb, and I guess that's possible given that he has just had to deal with two Homelander contingencies in a row -- the supe terrorists and HL discovering Ryan. That would seem like a good time to reassess his prior assumptions about his control over HL. But I do think his confidence in his ability to manage HL is supposed to be taken as real and not just an act in S3, so my personal headcanon is that Stan is being petty. Homelander annoys him, so why only punish him once if he can do it -- cost free in his mind -- over and over again?
Anyway, my hope is that the show is going with having Stan Edgar miscalculating instead of masterminding. I don't want a "Stan as puppet master who saw every single one of Homelander's moves coming" storyline, but based on the way the scene between Homelander and Stan Edgar on 99 was done, miscalculation also seems more likely, because Stan does slam the glass down on the table as he leaves the room, which I'm guessing is meant to indicate that despite his blood pressure and calm demeanor, his blasé attitude was an act and he is waking up to the fact that, oops, he did miscalculate.
That doesn't answer all the questions, such as why choose Starlight over Maeve, but I mean, the answer to that one is pretty evident from a storytelling perspective: if you have a central heroine and a character who will leave the show at the end of the Season 3, which of of these two characters are you going to put at the center of a major conflict? Obviously the one who is your main heroine. Bringing in a new person mid-season just for this would be... a very questionable choice in any writer's room.
Anyway, I would also argue that in this case, it doesn't really do much harm to Stan's character building and story arch. It's totally in line with his own and Vought's overall ethics that they would discard a woman who, by industry standards, is old, and go for a fresh face, their rising star, a person Stan presumes to still be impressionable and malleable -- he knows how to work with people like that. Sure, she may not be as young as Vicky was when he got to her, but it's reasonable he would assume he could shape her more easily than Maeve, so I really don't see any plothole here.
Starlight's relationship with The Boys is irrelevant because Stan canonically does not see The Boys as a threat. He may not love Butcher, but he's good enough to form a temporary alliance with, and Stan certainly does not view him as a existential threat to himself or to Vought. That may be another miscalculation, but for the time being, given Butcher's hyperfocus on Homelander and his inability to see the big picture about Vought, it seems fair enough. Stan also doesn't believe that he's giving Starlight a whole lot of power with the new position. The co-captains are performing monkeys in his mind (just like Homelander himself has always been), so the risk, to him, is not much higher than having her join The Seven in the first place.
It certainly doesn't answer the question of why Stan put Stormfront in The Seven given what must be a very complex relationship between the two. Clearly, she's influential at the company, clearly, they work together (she does the high risk stuff for him so that he can maintain plausible deniability and distance himself from the ugliest parts of Vought's medical experiments), clearly, they do not like each other (unless there's something we don't know). But perhaps that's their deal: Stormfront does the ugly stuff for Stan, Stan gets her closer to her beloved Nazi-ideal-conforming potential son-in-spirit. Obviously, their exact relationship is never explained directly. It's either a plothole or a plotline that was left open because it will be closed later, or a plotline that was left open and will remain open because the way shows are written means not all loose ends are tied up in the end. Personally, I don't think we'll see this one resolved.
Anyway, best case scenario, the show will deliver as a twist on "James Stillwell" as someone who miscalculated on multiple fronts (mainly Homelander, possibly Butcher, but that's probably just my pipe dream lol) thanks to his overconfidence, and gets destroyed along with Vought as a consequence. Worst case scenario, this will all fizzle out and not be resolved properly as the show descends deeper into the contemporary American politics non-plotline.
24 notes · View notes
plasticfangtastic · 4 months
Text
So am in the process of writing an Ashlander/Homeash fic and it made me wonder why Homie picked Ashley of all ppl to replaced Madelyn like based on their S2 interactions it seems to me that they hardly knew each other much prior to him personally requesting/selecting Ashley for the role which even surprised her.
Like i imagine he probably picked her bcuz she had been recently fired and thus had no loyalty nor love for Madelyn and i guess the old guard of Vought, so she would be greatful to him and thus loyal to him solely which he then used intimidation and violence almost inmediately to make sure she knew her place, which its weird to me how easy it was for him to reveal his true self so quickly...
Tumblr media
But like how aware was he of her? Obviously he saw her in the office after all she had worked her way up enough in the company ladder that she was handed Starlight (a member of the Seven of all ppl) to support and was probably working super closely to Madelyn (as her assistant)up to that point but what made her relevant enough for him to even remember her name ... personally i like to imagine that he overheard her exchange with starlight after she got fired and like her spunk (specially cuz it be fun to break her afterwards)
I mean they have a rather weird relationship thats hella intense for no reason... am still baffled that he would leave Ryan with her if he dislikes her so much or how he didnt care one bit about having a boner in front of her... and she on the other hand copies him and even tries to dress in matching outfits at times.
Tumblr media
I legit wanna see an ep (or some video) of just their actual everyday office interactions...
23 notes · View notes
homielander · 2 years
Text
i love how disarming hughie is repeatedly shown to be to so many people because he actually treats them like human beings (which is exceptionally rare on this show).
a stranger cries next to him on a park bench and he immediately asks if she's all right and gives her heartfelt advice. translucent tries to murder him and hughie still goes to his cell with water. butcher is an asshole to hughie all around, but hughie's refusal to let him treat the rest of the group (frenchie, MM, kimiko — all of whom are little better than strangers to him at that point) like they're disposable actually reminds butcher he has a heart (in s2 lol). a-train murders hughie's girlfriend, shows no remorse for it, then tries to murder him, but hughie still opts to pump his heart back to life. (and it works out, because a-train repays the favour in season 2 by providing them information on stormfront's history.) hughie treats soldier boy with basic kindness and soldier boy opens up to him about his dreams of settling down and a family with crimson countess. when he negotiates with mindstorm (whose ability literally depends on making eye contact!!), hughie uncovers his eyes and even tosses him some clothes, just so mindstorm can retain some semblance of dignity and connection.
it makes the v24 plot so much more heartbreaking because hughie's greatest strength has been his humanity all along.
401 notes · View notes
the-bensolos · 2 years
Text
Something something the contrast between Annie and Hughie and him feeling like he constantly needs to save her because he feels emasculated by Annie constantly saving him, and then Kimiko choosing to get her powers back to be able to protect and save Frenchie and him accepting that choice. Knowing that she needs to do that for herself and he’s not emasculated by that and he’s more just concerned for her and her well-being and it’s the way that contrasts with the way they view masculinity and how masculinity interacts with them. Something something performative ally ship and feminism versus real ally ship and feminism. Something something toxic masculinity is in the people who claim “actually I am a feminist” instead of just being feminist.
273 notes · View notes
lithiumache · 2 years
Text
just finished watching 3x06. one thing about the last two episodes that stayed in my mind was the inevitable comparison between annie and hughie’s relationship and kimiko and frenchie’s relationship. both hughie and frenchie are not supes, they’re both physically weak men (in comparison to their girlfriends and also to the men around them) in love with super powerful women, they both have to deal with violence, they both have not-so-good relationships to their fathers... hell, even their names have the same cute shortening (-ie).
and yet they deal with these situations in such different ways. I think the biggest difference comes from the fact that frenchie is not interested in making himself seem powerful in the eyes of other men - he cares mostly about doing his job, and after meeting kimiko, he cares more about her safety and happiness than about any delusions of power. even when (spoilers!) nina is trying to make him feel bad and ashamed about being submissive, about taking orders so well, he is not really concerned and we as an audience don’t see any indications that he has any shame about his sexual preferences - he cares more that kimiko will think him a monster for the violent things he has actually done.
meanwhile, hughie is all ego. male ego, to be more specific. he doesn’t care about what annie wants, in fact, he ignores her multiple times. he is completely caught up in his own fantasy of being a hero, being powerful and being “worthy of respect”.  he even says in the last episode, after taking compound V, “now i can finally help!”, as if he wasn’t helping them before, as if he was useless because he was phisically weaker. in the end, his male fantasies are not so different from homelander’s. he doesn’t care about building a better world, or even about destroying supes - he cares about the way other people perceive him.
223 notes · View notes
kimikofrenchie · 2 years
Text
screaming crying throwing up over the difference between frenchie kissing kimiko in 204 as a reflection of the imbalance in their relationship and his attempts to “save” her vs kimiko in 305, her powers gone, kissing frenchie as an expression of her happiness and freedom 
365 notes · View notes
blindmagdalena · 6 months
Note
What do you think Homelander’s attraction to Becca was? It’s not like at the Christmas party she was the only woman there, and by that point he had no idea who Butcher was. The actress that plays her is attractive, but the later scenes (season two and even just their initial introduction) between them suggest there’s something more to his attraction.
It’s obvious in the season two scenes that Homelander and Becca have, he has some lingering attraction. I think that’s primarily led by the fact that they have a son together and Homelander desperately wants a family, and also that Homelander is looking for a new woman to attach himself onto since Madelyn died. Perhaps he just wants what he can’t have especially knowing that she’s still in love with Butcher and he wants someone to love him that unconditionally. The main reason I thought of this is because in my opinion, Homelander isn’t the type of character to do something without a reason. Usually he has one even if it’s not a good reason.
ah yes, potentially one of the most contentious/controversial plot points in the fandom. canon gives us VERY little to go on here, so excuse me while I just ramble my take on the whole situation. i extrapolate a good amount. everyone you ask is going to have a different answer, and each one is as valid as any other. this is simply mine!
Homelander's greatest sin isn't wrath or pride. It's envy. He is a bottomless well of yearning for what he doesn't have, and he is viciously covetous. We see this play out most plainly in his one sided beef with a literal baby.
When he meets Becca, she's beautiful, quick witted, strong willed and independent. A career woman. Not only that, she's helping manage his career by handing his social media, which is part of his public perception. Very important to him! He already has a ton of wires crossed when it comes to the women in his life acting as both coworkers/Vought employees and emotional surrogates, i.e. Maeve, Madelyn and Vogelbaum. Plus who knows how many nanny mommies.
At this point, we don't know how long he's been with Maeve, but we have at least another 6 years before the pair breaks up. He's enjoying Maeve, but he wants more. He always wants more. Maybe he wants a wife, and she's refusing him that.
But Becca is a wife. He sees that ring on her finger and it boils his blood that he doesn't have that classic, romantic symbol of commitment. Of love. Worse yet when he meets her husband! The figurative boogeyman. The baby stealing his mommy and her milk. We're not there in the story yet, but we do see a trend here. It likely didn't start here: imagine what it was like for him to find out Vogelbaum had kids. Kids he loved. I bet that gutted Homelander. It should have been him.
Homelander, in his mind, can never win. Can never have enough. Anyone else having means they are directly taking away what should be his. It could be that it was never really about Becca specifically so much as the archetype she represented.
That carries us into season 2 where Becca takes on an additional archetype that Homelander is now lacking: mother. I think you're right on the money that a good amount of his attraction comes from the fact she's the mother of his son.
He falls pretty deep down the fantasy family rabbit hole with Becca, though. He not only inserts himself into their lives and routine, he takes a renewed interest in Becca. He snoops through her things, smells her clothes, and engages with her well beyond just interacting with Ryan. Then comes the scene where he finds her hidden stash of Billy merch, and the fantasy is shattered. She's still in love with another man. She's a wife, but she's not his wife. She's the mother to his son, but she's not someone who will fulfill those emotional needs for him. I've made this comparison before, but it's very reminiscent to the breakdown he has when he sees his baby blanket in his fake childhood home. He moves on VERY easily to Stormfront when she not only presents herself as a mother to her own child, but a potential mother for his child.
I'm backtracking a little here, but when Maeve called Homelander over from Billy and Becca at the party, I always got the vibe she was doing so quite purposefully. I wonder how much of their early relationship was Maeve feeling like she was performing damage control. Managing him, curbing his destructive behaviors. Did she see that covetous edge in his eye when he would look at Becca, at her ring? Did she try to tell him to leave her alone, play it like a joke?
We have the deleted scene where Maeve says the reason they broke up was because he couldn't keep it in his tights, but we don't really have any other explicit instances or even mentions of Homelander liberally sleeping around. Did she know about Becca, or at the very least did she make an educated guess when the woman disappeared? Maybe she felt like he did it to spite her. Did she know about Madelyn?
Ultimately we know Maeve becomes complicit in his crimes. She feels her hands are dirty with the same blood. She becomes jaded, she's no longer the hero. She's just an accessory. I definitely don't think it started that way, though.
anyways, I hope this somewhat answered your question! I have a tendency to jump around a lot and word vomit, but this generally covers my take on why that all went down the way it did.
Honestly, I would love to write a fic someday that digs more into my thoughts here. Becca deserves so much more than what she got from the narrative.
79 notes · View notes
Note
Thinking about what you said, I think it's highly probable Madelyn Stillwell raped Homelander when he was 14 or 15.
That's around the age he got stuck at, right?
I think fandom is probably right about her doing it as more of a means to control him than anything, but I think you're probably right about this making it worse and meaning she did much more than has been shown to us on screen.
Regardless, I think this would have to be the case and I would say is even implied, but you are absolutely right that it shouldn't matter why someone decides to be a child molester.
They're still a child molester and whatever reasoning they have, the act is still vile and inexcusable. There even being debate on that in fandom just seems like grooming apologism and abuse dismissal because of favoritism towards Madelyn.
But the results and actions are ultimately the same in the end. It's also implementing a clause to make it mutually exclusionary when it could very well be both.
In the final scene, she swears to him that she loves him but is afraid of him and Homelander thanks her for finally being honest with him before killing her.
What if she was being honest or at least believed her own words when she said she loved him?
And the other scenes between them never struck me as a one time deal or the first time something like them happened. He does look off put in some ways and not quite uncomfortable, but almost like he's regressing when he's with her. Like she maybe used to do that sort of stuff more frequently and hasn't lately.
The scene where they're finally together struck me as more regression too. He immediately apologized to her and she consoled him like it was something that has happened before and she was used to it from him. Even the words she used and the way she said it and the way things were.
"My special sweet boy." "You did good." "That was so lovely."
Do people really believe this or similar can't have happened before with the things she says? To me, they indicate the exact opposite of that thought.
The scene looked almost like it was his first time, and obviously not hers. But the only way that really makes sense is if he is experiencing a moment of regression, possibly to his actual first time with her.
The scene feels like mother and son incest after years of abuse where she's deliberately causing his regression and enjoying the power it gives her over him.
She's a predator and this to me is made pretty clear if not explicit.
OOOH~<3! my darling anon, i wish i could fucking kiss you<3!
you just put into a word exactly why i could never get behind the homewell ship or the homewell type elements being used in other ships in fics that were supposedly trying to *heal* him. easy way to get me to check out for a fic because you *CANNOT* use elements from someone's trauma and abuse, legit full on *exploit* them, and *then* dare to call it or frame it as *healing* and expect it all to be hunky dory, that is just not how that shit works. (at least speaking in terms of medical accuracy/no wonder this shit is so triggery for me, this ain't supposed to be fuckin' disney--)
obliviously or dismissively predatory, so not even in the fun way...
and i want to be clear here, because this isn't me trying to tell people to not like the ship or elements or stop making content for them or whatever the fuck else. i don't care if people have or indulge in toxic guilty pleasure ships or stories here and there (literally have my own), but i always think we should be self aware of our own shit (plus ranting is sometimes good for the soul~<3) and it really *really* shows some people just are not in this case.
i *also* know people don't always mean to set up that way, part of it is a major problem with society (i will get to that~) and the only way for people to be aware is to be *made* aware, butt~
"--you think love is to prey, but i'm sorry i don't pray that way!"
"once i ran to you, now i run from you, this tainted love you've given--"
1000% correct. madelyn, regardless of what happened *off screen* between her and homelander, what we *did* see of her is enough to confirm her as a *predator*, and this was *before* diabolical added to the story behind them. she is extremely predatory as a character, set behind a narcissistic 'mother knows best' filter and a lot of it has nothing to do with homelander.
look no further than starlight~<3
this woman attempted to get a victim of rape to have 'discretion' about what happened to her, TO HER FACE. and every step of the way, tried to bully starlight into 'line' for the company. literally using narcissistic abuse--guilt tripping and shame, questioning her core values, fucking gaslighting (all things we see homelander copy oh deary me what an *odd* cowinkidink!! I WONDER WHERE HE LEARNED IT FROM.)--among others with a 'motherly' frame and 'it's just constructive criticism' (BITCH NO IT AIN'T!!) to manipulate her into doing what vought wanted/what was best for the *company*, NOT for annie.
hell, i'd wager she fucking hired starlight *specifically* because they thought she'd be an *easy* target.
she was *vulnerable*, nearly alone in that big city. her only relative/support system was an extremely religious mother who was *pushing her* to push through any pain or abuse and still wear a smile *for vought* and *for her* because of *fame* and *fortune*, framed as *for annie* when no it def wasn't. (i do like that starlight's mum actually becomes self aware of this and tries to amend the trust she broke, but i digress)
her tapes and everything they showed us about starlight showed us a wide eyed, bright eyed girl who was *hopeful*--but also naive... and as much as it pains me, that would have made her more susceptible to vought's machinations.
and i think the main reason annie didn't completely fall down the vought victims rabbit hole is in part due her truly good nature<3, but also because she met *hughie* (side note, notice how every time hughie and starlight have a falling out or separate from each other, they both start to get *worse*. butcher also tends to swoop in--)
it doesn't get talked about enough, but butcher pulls the same kind of bullshit with hughie (honestly probably why i could never quite feel right about butchie, do still like it but i do prefer it if butcher catches some guilty complexes causa hughie lmao), another good kid who's just had something monumentally traumatic happen to him and is in a super fucking vulnerable place where he'd be easy to manipulate for whatever it is butcher has planned.
he scoped him out and *saw* that, something to *use* to his advantage. and recruited him as such. like a gotdamn predator.
the wrench in his plans (as well as madelyn's) came in *hughie meeting annie* because they *gave* each other a solid support system because they were both good people, dealing with trauma, who found each other~<3 (always a hardcore hughielight shipper)
and butcher even *knows* this, he *knows* annie actually *honestly* and actually HELPS hughie and ruins his plots for him, so of course that mofo is gonna keep trying to ruin everything and break them up. if madelyn had ever discovered hughie, she probably would have done the same shit if in her own faux 'concerned mother' way.
BUTT... you are absolutely right in saying that fandom is highly dismissive or even apologist of what madelyn did to homelander (like they are with fuckin' everything that happened to him honestly) and it doesn't matter what reason she had to abuse him, what should be looked at is the fact of the matter.
did she abuse him? yes or no
the answer is yes, period. asking if she was actually attracted to him or just wanted control becomes a moot point after that, she *still* fucking groomed him. people can go ahead and debate the other factors, but the least they could do is acknowledge the first bit and not use the others to try and deny or 'lessen' the gravity of what she did.
i blame part of this on ableism and victim blaming, but also with how dismissive people *still* are when it comes to male victims of just about anything. christ, we still have people in fandom who have watched the show and *refuse*, not hyperbole, they downright *REFUSE* to acknowledge that homelander could have *any* semblance of victimhood whatsoever. despite the fact that he was literally tortured as a child and fucking groomed and we are given glimpses of these facts on screen, they'll deny any form of nuance and paint it as completely black or white, because he became... pretty much the only thing that fate allowed him to become.
that's not limited to this site even, it's prevalent pretty much in any part of the boys fandom across the web. (which is ironic given the series exists to challenge this sort of thinking)
but how often do we still see cases of a male *child* being sexually assaulted by an adult woman and the fucking judge going, "wElL sHe'S cAnDy So He PrObAbLy LiKeD iT"?
thankfully, not as often anymore. but if i'm honest? TOO FUCKING MANY (once is fucking too many) and the thought is still INSANELY pervasive. and again, it leads back to the question.
did she abuse him? yes or no
it doesn't fucking matter if the kid 'liked it' or not, MA'AM, THIS IS A FUCKING CHILD--
*children can NOT consent*
or in homelander's case, an emotionally stunted extremely mentally ill person. and ALSO a child at one point.
*likewise, mentally ill/special needs/disabled people and informed consent is an issue all its own. all of these are among the most vulnerable to abuse and the least likely to get justice for it*
if madelyn had been a man, nobody would question this. (who am i kidding, i'd like to think that but i am well aware there are apologists of all kinds that would not give a shit and be equally gross about it.)
and you are def right, it *feels* 1000% like *regression* in the scenes he's with her. and now that you mention it, the scene where they're together?? oh, fuck me. anon... that is *dark* and it fucking hurts but you may be right.
it *was* absolutely the first time *we* as an audience saw them together, and i think that may skew the perception about. there *was* absolutely an effort to regain control over him in that instance. but the things she said and the way it plays out... no
plainly, just no... it *does not* feel like the very first time that has happened... it feels like something that is *rare* between them. but definitely something that's happened *before*, and perhaps something she maintains as *rare* specifically to keep a hold on him. (could this be one reason for the diabolical episode?? to further implicate this?)
and even his use of doppelganger hinted at this cause think of it.
a 'madelyn' that is *just* for him, *only* the parts of her that... gave him attention, the bits he *liked*. what she more than likely fed to him as *scraps* to keep him crawling back for more. but because it was never genuine, the confusion from the ratio with abuse was thrown off, and the entire illusion that it ever meant anything was shattered prior (along with stormfront manipulating him), well...
"i give you all a boy could give you, take my tears and that's not nearly--"
down to his hatred and jealousy of teddy. we have to imagine what things were like before she had him but i get the feeling homelander got a lot more attention before then. it was well over 20 years and people honestly think in all that time *nothing* else happened??? things were 'normal' and then boom, *random* mommy kink??? hell, even the kid was maybe just as much a means to 'reset' the balance and help her maintain control as he was for future profit for vought.
OW.
yes. madelyn is a predator. homelander is her groomed victim. and i don't think it gets mentioned enough in this discourse, but one of the biggest reasons predators prey on the vulnerable or even want to make a fucking victim of someone is *because* of the power trip it gives them over that person. (hell, homelander fucking does this *specifically* because it has been done to him his entire life!)
and *even former abuse victims* may not realize it when they pull this sort of shit. i'm not gonna dive into that because it is a fucking *depressing* can of tapeworms, but let's just say i've been there, i know people who've been there, and i know people who know people who've been there. so this shit is a big fucking problem for people when we don't notice it and massively persistent circle jerk of perpetuation.
but it's still fucking predation, it doesn't make a difference if it's done by someone with power/control kink, narcissistic disorder or 'mommy/daddy dearest' vibes, pedophilic disorder, etc. it still fucking harmful and victimizes someone (especially when they are unaware/cannot consent to the powerplay OH FUCK--)
goddammit... i just realized the problem lmao... PISS. POOR. BDSM ETIQUETTE. GOTDAMN.
and trauma management i guess.
basically, people tag dom/sub or top/bottom when they should be tagging a 'control' or 'abuse kink'. dom/sub play relies on the informed consent of both parties while 'control' relies on the lack there of (informed consent) from the 'sub'. and in homelander's case, this shit is particularly bad. (readers need to be given informed consent too!! always tag yo shit y'all!!)
which to be fair, ain't exactly the fault of the ship itself, but more so the lack of awareness/common dismissal on it. it's really hella normalized/often advertised as 'just a quirky lil guy with a mommy kink' when that's not even remotely the only thing at play here and it goes way deeper and darker than that. you toss in homelander's other traumas and it's just... it's a goddamn mess.
and now i understand why i am so incredibly grossed out by fics that push homelander through more of this nonsense (or worse) with a new person (any person) and never bother addressing the trauma he has *directly* related to this shit. (because my traumas directly deal in the control shit yayyyyyyyyyyyyy~... UGH--)
well.
call me a pussy if you must (i am a pussy and a cunt and a dick and an asshole, i wear it shamelessly~<3) but i just ain't all that interested in fics that only exchange *handlers* for homelander instead of actually help him (when that's what they'll claim to want to do). seriously, lining him up with another 'madelyn' of all things just leaves me wishing he could *get away* from his shiny new abuser (because that is what she was, and would ideally be the inevitable outcome anyhow!)
homelander needs at least *one* honest *friend* who genuinely doesn't want anything from him to help him unblur the lines of informed consent that madelyn intentionally muddled *before* he can even make informed consent when it comes to this shit, especially if we wanna *actually* heal that boi (all he's had is more people capitalizing on it over and over if not just people with no clue of the minefield they were navigating)
he'd need to be able to experience true *independence* and *agency* before he decided they were things he actually wanted to put in someone else's hands or 'give up', so to speak, both of which would come *after* healing.
and if i'm indulging in toxicity with him, i'ma make him *get back at his abusers*~<3, give him a chance at some revenge porn for once and make it so much worse for *them*, not the guy who literally never had a chance or got to breathe his own breath (and def tagged properly of course).
but of all the whack ass takes i could see in the sea of fandoms, ANYONE in that position over this boi (or any character in similar situation) as he is *unhealed* is *NOT* his ally and doesn't give an honest shit about him, it's 100% all about *control* over him (which i know is a huge kink for tons of people and hypernormalized in society, especially heteronormativity, but again, trauma central for me so it'd be really fuckin' nice if people learned the difference and also started tagging this shit~<3)
fun for some, but not for me.
i've always generally preferred push/pull powerplay that purposely leaves the question of 'control' open/eventually balances it and helps empower and individualize both characters to be the best versions of themselves, i want them to learn and grow together. positive masculinity/femininity and emotional maturity are way more of a turn on for me and i want these bois and gurls and inbetweens to graduate to *men* and *women* and fairly *reasonable adults* when i write them, while preserving their core personalities and the things that make them *them*.
i also don't view 'bottomhood' as 'punishment'/something to use to deliberately rob a person of control/self determination (as much as we may joke about it, and also that is just rape with a pretty veil that at least deserves to be properly tagged) and i normally focus on empowering them just as much if not more than my tops so it's just damn weird to me to see that kind of mentality get popularized on any character and leik.
gotdamn, first off, what the shit, and second, i realize getting to the places i wanna go reasonably and responsibly takes hard work and pretty intricate writing but please lawd satan tell me i ain't the only one to feel this way, PLEASE!?
but very good point about it possibly being both/more than one element here. control is more likely to be *one* reason, but not *the* only reason and it could very well be a factor of both attraction and need to/getting off on the idea of controlling him (which still stems back to attraction, honestly, even if she didn't feel it towards him the sense of him being a child, it would still mean she feels it towards him in the sense of him being vulnerable which is just as awful, honestly.)
and i do think his stunted emotional maturity is 100% indicative that something *very* specific happened to him around that age (*maybe* she waited till after the debut??), but among all the other trauma, that is actually a question worth asking. why *then* and not any of the other times? he's got no shortage of trauma for his brain to pick from, so what the hell happened then?
as far as it feeling like incest? lil bit, yeah (if pseudo, which obviously we know it's not but i do think the vibe there is actually intended), suffice to say that madelyn is to homelander what billy's father was to him...
and y'know... i gotta admit, knowing this i am surprised we don't see all that much of butcher being shipped with his father because that and homewell are pretty much the same thing on opposite spectrums.
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH--
have fun y'all, as always butt leik... have fun responsibly--gawddammit i never thought i'd be *that* old fart but i guess i am... well i can still be fun about it... tipsy bartender is fun lmao<3<3<3 (altho these subjects are decidedly less fun... *sigh of the long suffering*...)
28 notes · View notes
deliciouskeys · 1 year
Text
My sexual orientation is Billy Butcher asking Homelander “Where’s your fuckin rage?!” when he figures out how deeply, sinisterly, and codependently Vought have their claws planted into him.
175 notes · View notes
pareidoliajules · 2 years
Text
So after last night's episode of the boys (which I have Several thoughts about), I feel I simply must say it again: Antony Starr is an incredible actor.
I'll hold off on my character analysis for the moment to just talk about how Antony Starr used his physicality in the most important scenes - starting with where he finds out Noir noped the fuck out.
Not only is he scared - actual, real fear, just like we saw when he first saw the camera footage of Soldier Boy - but he's hurt. And not just in the "ow that bruised my ego" way. He almost starts crying. You can see the tears in his eyes. When he leans in close to The Deep, you can literally see the reflection in the shine of his eyes. Another actor's attempt at this would've felt out of character or melodramatic, but with Antony Starr, the audience clocks it as maybe one of five instances of genuine emotion from a man whose most common "emotions", if you can call it that, are "murder", "sex", and "[preens]".
Which brings me to the next scene. I was already like, oh, shit, this is gonna be his best episode to date (which is saying something, because again, Antony Starr Is So Good). The scene where he's talking to himself in the mirror has so many tiny, beautiful expressions that say so much. My boyfriend fiance pointed out that the mirror scene was a definite homage to Willam DeFoe's Green Goblin (specifically the "Yahtzee!" moment), and I think it's fair to say that they're definitely on the same level (and Willam DeFoe is also So Good). For perhaps the first time, we see Homelander, stripped. He is entirely alone. He has no one to perform for; no one to impress or intimidate. He is only himself, but even still, he is divided.
...I said I wouldn't get into character discussion in this post. So. Antony Starr had two difficult tasks: playing off himself (instead of another human to work with), and playing two drastically different emotions. For the sake of clarity, I'll refer to them as Homelander and Mirror!Homelander.
We see Homelander's "last shred of humanity" more clearly here than anywhere. Antony Starr portrays a victim of abuse faced with his abuser, where their abuser is positioning themself as his savior. Antony Starr is a tall, sturdy man, but he makes himself look so small, so young as Mirror!Homelander confronts him. He is a child, scared of the world outside and the world within (Mirror!Homelander). We see Homelander sans bravado, sans ego, sans everything that makes Homelander the character we've seen over the past 2.5 seasons, and instead of seeming out of character, or seeming expected (in the sense of oh no the poor little meow meow had a tough childhood), it opens up a crater of emotion, of depth, of pity for this monster of a person. That would not be possible with another actor, I am positive of this.
Now let's talk about Mirror!Homelander. This is more what we expect from Homelander - big emotions. Anger. Righteous indignation. But it doesn't start that way. It starts soft, the way Homelander tried to approach Ryan - the way he would speak to a scared child. It ramps up, it borrows language from Stormfront, and it comes again to this idea of purity, of being clean. That humanity, even the humanity within Homelander himself - the humanity that has been more or less hidden behind...all of the everything - that humanity is the problem. This is an abuser talking to his victim; telling this scared little boy that he will help and he will protect him from the outside world (and whatever the "bad room" is, which I Will Not talk about right now, I won't!!!), just so long as the little boy does exactly what he says. Mirror!Homelander is the worst of what we've seen of real Homelander, and again, by another actor, it would have felt...overdone, or at least obvious. But Antony Starr's performance makes it clear that whatever pain he inflicts on the world around him (and it is a lot of pain!), he's also inflicting pain on himself, to the point where Homelander has to completely divorce himself from the source of it.
In the last scene with Homelander, after the fight, we only see real!Homelander, standing stock still in front of that mirror. What is Mirror!Homelander saying to him? How is he explaining what just happened to himself? How does he justify the fact that he ran away from a fight between his should-be-dead hero, his nemesis, and a naked twink?
What is Homelander doing to himself, that none of us can see?
133 notes · View notes
buckys-metal-arm · 6 months
Text
I love how in The Boys you can very clearly tell which companies they're riffing on, especially when it comes to the two comic book giants. I know because it's an Amazon show it feels very "SILENCE, BRAND", but because it's shown in the story and production/costume design I choose to believe its the creative team doing it more than Amazon themselves. I mean, writers and actors aren't the only ones that get treated like shit by studios, they're just the most recent to strike. Anyways, my favorite examples from this season (so far, I'm in episode 2) Voughtland and the Dawn of The Seven stuff. I know the characters themselves are meant to be commentary on different DC and Marvel heros (Homelander being a Superman/Captain America, Maeve is very clearly Wonder Woman, etc.), but in terms of things outside of that. Like with Dawn of the Seven, the Vought Studios logo is VERY similar to the Marvel Studios logo, but the font used in the poster feels very reminiscent of the one used for at least the Josstice League version of JL, in addition to all the digs at the Snyder Cut stuff (i wouldn't be surprised if at some point we saw a #Restorethe Snyderverse parody at some point and I am here👏for👏it👏). Vought itself is obviously meant to be a Disney/Amazon parody (I will die on the hill that there's some Amazon mixed in there too even if it's supposed to be overly Disney with the Vought+ reference, Voughtland, etc). Voughtland was also really fun to me. I don't love the "kingdom of Inclusivity" thing because I think the people it's making fun of are going to take it as them "owning the libs" when in reality it seems to be parodying what conservatives seem to think Disney is turning into (at least. That's my read of it.). Crimson Countess's show is I know meant to be a riff on America Sings and other Disney park shows that are full of revisionist history, but I also can't help but wonder if they also were thinking of Rogers the Musical when they wrote that part (idk if Hawkeye was out at the time S3 came out but with the privilege of hindsight that's what my brain went to), especially since Soldier Boy is meant to be a "dark Captain America/Winter Soldier but he's ACTUALLY a villain and not just a brainwashed POW forced to do bad things" type. And like, don't get me wrong I'm fully aware I'm part of the group they're making fun of (I mean. Look at my url), but I always say that in order to love Marvel you gotta really fuckin hate Marvel, and I'm not blind to the issues with it, both the ones they're making fun of and the ones they aren't. Anyways, I don't think I'm saying anything new or groundbreaking or #deep, I just needed to word vomit my thoughts somewhere.
8 notes · View notes