#Tower of Joy

[jeyneofpoole]

leda 1, 2, 3

[bidonicart]

Lyanna Stark and ser Gerold Hightower at the Tower of Joy.

A scenario conceived by @seaworthit, scripted by @nobodysuspectsthebutterfly and adapted into a comic by me.

where else to find me

[amber-laughs]

“ned, jon and lyanna’s body all showed up together, why don’t people know?” because that would never happen. there is no possible way that lyanna’s body wouldn’t have decomposed which means she would have to be given to the silent sisters somewhere in Dorne. It’s possible ned could have been given her bones then and there but we know he sent them directly to winterfell. Ned didn’t go straight to winterfell, he went from the tower of joy to starfall then to King’s Landing to make amends with Robert after the blow up about elia and her children. for most certain he did not bring rhaegar’s newborn son to the place where his siblings were just brutally murdered. so what happened to jon? my best guess is that wylla the wetnurse, or whoever was seeing to him, took a boat from starfall (bc grrm made a point of saying they have them) to the north. so ned, jon, and lyanna all show up at varying times probably months to weeks in between and then ned sends for catelyn and robb. it’s not something that really looks suspicious imo

[emprcaesar]

lyanna stark means so much to me. i have made a post about her before and how she is the most enigmatic characters that is talked about a lot through the series but still no one seems to know her truly. which just amplifies the fact that she was just 16 years old when she died. she was an angry sad 16 year old girl that no one could understand. she wasn’t some glorified saint like robert remembers her as she wasn’t a tragic character in some play she was a real living breathing girl that was full of love and hope and anger. she wasn’t just one thing.

i believe that she willingly left with rhaegar but didn’t think it through completely because SHE WAS 16 and when she heard her father and brother died because of her she wanted to go back to her family but rhaegar was so obsessed without he prophecy that he made her stay.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice, “now it ends.” As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.”

she fucking screamed for her brother. in the end she wasn’t some brave she-wolf or a martyr she was a scared little girl who was impulsive and wanted her big brother to save her.

if you believe R+L=J theory (which i do) then her prodigal son who was never meant to be this ancient prophecy come to life is alone in the world and has no clue how much his mother would’ve loved him. but jon shoudlve never been born. lyanna shoudlve never been in that situation.

i’ve also seen a lot of people blaming lyanna and shit talking about her and that’s just flat out victim blaming because even if lyanna willingly went and was cool with being with rhaegar the whole time and was completely in love with him SHES STILL 16. and before you say it’s normal in the asoiaf universe it doesn’t change the fact she’s 16 and can’t make executive decisions like this.

i need to lie down.

@atopvisenyashill has amazing posts about this!!!!!!

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

Ned's Tower of Joy dream is an interesting case study on how GRRM employs the three part revelation strategy. Because Ned's questioning of the kings guard and their subsequent answers basically falls into:

Q: Why are the kingsguard at the Tower of Joy? They could be anywhere else but they're here? Why??

A: They are there to fulfill their duty to the king.

See, Ned asks them three questions that get to the heart of revealing why the kingsguard are present where Lyanna (and Jon, per RLJ) are. Because if the kingsguard's primary duty is to protect the king, and if each set of question and answer reaffirms that the KG at the tower were doing their duty, then we can discern that Rhaegar's son is the king at that moment in time. Each question and answer reveals more information than the last, which falls into the three part strategy as observed by GRRM's editor, Anne Groell.

[...] I’ve realized his three-fold revelation strategy, I see it in play almost every time. The first, subtle hint for the really astute readers, followed later by the more blatant hint for the less attentive, followed by just spelling it out for everyone else. It’s a brilliant strategy, and highly effective.

How this strategy plays into the ToJ dream is that GRRM starts with

planting a little seed of doubt by questioning the kingsguard's whereabouts

then he follows up with bringing to attention the fact that they have not yet sworn fealty to the new king

then finally spelling it out that their presence here rather than elsewhere signifies that the king is close at hand - in the very tower where this confrontation is taking place

For the astute observer who has figured out that R+L=J, this is a very important piece of information regarding Jon's status at the time. Because he has so far been introduced to us as Ned Stark's bastard. But now, this sequence of information plays into the larger theme of Jon being presented as a hidden king.

So let's take a more detailed look at how this plays out in the dream once Ned confronts the ghosts of the kingsguard.

P.S: Ok, I lied. Ned actually asks them four questions. But four is not so nice a number as three so whatever. The point remains.

Q1: Three other kingsguard were fighting with the crown prince at the Trident. Yet these three remained. Why?

A1: Their duty was not to go to the Trident but to remain at the ToJ

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them. “We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered. “Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

This first set means to establish a timeline. We know that Rhaegar was last at the tower (well, that is before he went to Kings Landing and then to the Trident). Rhaegar even took three other kingsguard to battle with him: Jonothor Darry, Barristan Selmy, and Lewyn Martell.

These three kings guard at the ToJ should have gone with Rhaegar because after all, it's their duty to fight for the king and his cause. But they were left at the TOJ. And we can assume that this was per Rhaegar's orders as GRRM himself confirms that if Rhaegar told them to stay at the tower, then they would've had little power to disobey him.

But Rhaegar died at the Trident. So why did they choose to remain? And even though this conversation is happening within a feverish dream (thus opening up the possibility that these words were not the actual ones that were exchanged in real history), it still seems that by the time Ned got to the tower the kingsguard already knew of Rhaegar's demise.

So why did they remain?

Q2: Jaime Lannister, a member of the kingsguard, was in King's Landing slaying their king. Why were these three not there to avenge Aerys? Isn't their primary duty to protect the king?

A2: Aerys is dead, but the kingsguard still has to do their duty which is to remain at the tower.

“When King’s Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.” “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

Once again, the language used here suggests that they knew of their king's demise. They did not go with Rhaegar to the Trident, and then Rhaegar died. Who knows how fast information travels, but these three still chose to remain at the tower despite his death. Afterwards, they did not make an effort to find Aerys, nor did they make an effort to go and avenge him once he was dead. They swore an oath to remain at the tower, and that is exactly what they did.

But with Rhaegar dead and with Aerys dead, they're now running out of excuses to remain at the tower. Though they may be fiercely loyal to the vows they swore to their prince, they also have a primary duty to obey their king and they could've performed that elsewhere. Especially now that there's a new king in town...

Q3: Ok, their king is dead and the entire realm now swears fealty to a new king. All the knights, honorable and dishonorable, have bent the knee. But what about them? Why are they here?

A3: They have a duty to remain at the tower. A duty they fulfill as members of the kingsguard, and one that cannot be transferred easily.

“I came down on Storm’s End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, “and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.” “Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

What's interesting about this is that they seemingly reject Robert as their king. It's a reaffirmation of their first answer to Ned's first question. "Woe to the Usurper if we had been [at the Trident]”. So Robert is not their king. But the primary duty of the kingsguard is to serve the king. Their behavior so far gives the impression that they are fulfilling it. But it's rather strange, isn't it. Who are they fulfilling their duty to if not Robert?

And Ned knows this. If they reject Robert as their king, who else is there to support? Rhaegar is long dead. Aerys was slain by their own sworn brother. And Rhaegar's son and heir met his end at the hand of Gregor Clegane. Their duty is sworn to the Targaryen line, but it has been snuffed out. So why are they here?

But Ned asks a final question that is, in a way, a nail in the coffin. It answers the question: they serve the king but which one?

Q4: Fine! Robert is not their king. And Rhaegar, Aerys, and Aegon are dead. Well...there is Viserys, who would have been Aerys' heir after Rhaegar. He's not dead. So why are they not with him?

A4: They do not go to Viserys because their duty as kingsguard(!) is not with him.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

This is the final revelation and it answers the key question in all of this. The kingsguard performed their duty by guarding their king at the Tower of Joy. They are not serving Aerys by remaining there. And they are also not doing Viserys, who is currently at Dragonstone, any favors. Whatever vow they swore as kingsguard relates to the ToJ. And we know (per RLJ) that the two people at the tower are Lyanna Stark and Jon Snow, Rhaegar's last surviving son and heir.

We're given two key pieces of information with the last two sets of question and answer in regards to the kingsguards performing their duty by guarding Jon at the tower. First when Arthur Dayne says that, "our knees do not bend easily". Of course, they do not bend for Robert the usurper as we already know...

...But, the start of the dream features a very important detail.

Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. 

Ser Oswell has already bent the knee. And he means to fight for the king he has sworn a vow to since he is preparing his sword.

Then we have Ser Gerold 'pointing out' (thus bringing attention to) the fact that though Prince Viserys and Queen Rhaella are still alive and under the protection of a good knight, they are not under the protection of kingsguard. The kings guard does not flee - they stand their ground and fight for their king. And this is again asserted by Ser Gerold who reminds Ned that “we swore a vow.”

So we have a three four part revelation that the last stand at the ToJ involved protecting little Jon who, at that time, was recognized as king by the three knights.

This doesn't end here. Jaime's ASOS dream also has him confront ghosts of the pasts and the question of oaths comes up, as it did in Ned's dream. The two dreams intersect when the topic of the kingsguard's duty comes up. And we see that as it was in Ned's dream, the three knights at the ToJ were fulfilling their primary oaths to protect (and die) for their king.

“I swore an oath to keep him safe,” [Brienne] said to Rhaegar’s shade. “I swore a holy oath.” “We all swore oaths,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, so sadly. [...] “He was your king,” said Darry. “You swore to keep him safe,” said Whent. “And the children, them as well,” said Prince Lewyn. [...] “I never thought he’d hurt them.” Jaime’s sword was burning less brightly now. “I was with the king …” “Killing the king,” said Ser Arthur. “Cutting his throat,” said Prince Lewyn. “The king you had sworn to die for,” said the White Bull.

Once again, we have the affirmation that the kingsguard swear vows to protect their king even if it leads to their deaths. And as we know, all these kingsguard died during Robert's Rebellion. Three died at the Trident with Rhaegar, fighting for their king's cause. So why are the other three who were at the ToJ lumped with them?

Of course, this is Jaime's conscious. And his relationship with Dayne, Hightower, and Whent is very different from Ned's. But the point remains that as the narrative suggests, they too died for their king. They fulfilled their oaths to completion. But the king they died for was not Aerys or Aegon or Viserys. Their king was a tiny babe - Jon Snow.

Though this feverish dream is part of a much larger reveal (that is R+L=J), Ned’s conversation with the three kingsguard plays into one of the key motifs in Jon Snow’s arc - that is his identity as the king. Not a king. But THE king.

What makes the three part revelation so interesting in this passage is that not everyone has figured R+L=J out. But to the astute observer, this key passage is just another piece of important evidence that plays into the hidden prince trope that RLJ falls under. And not only that, it yet another instance of Jon being recognized as the true king by the narrative.

[laurellerual]

Please please please draw romantic Rhaelya 🥺🥺 maybe something based on no feather bed for me song ❤️

One last kiss shared in the tower of joy before the farewell.

After Paolo and Francesca da Rimini (1855) by Dante Gabriel Rossetti.

Here it is! I hope you like it. But keep your dirty hands away from the no featherbed for me song, or I'll bite them off.

[toooticki]

You will carry what happened here with you for the rest of your life 

[blue-rose-of-wolves]

Elia Martell week 2024, Day 2: Elia with her partners. Elia and Lyanna

@asoiafrarepairs @eliamartellappreciation @saltywinteradult @forcesmuggler @love-dragoneyes @irisewithsunyourisewiththemoon

[warsofasoiaf]

Is it realistic that Ned was able to deliver Dawn to Starfall after the Tower of Joy by himself, given the garrison of the castle would presumably still be at war with those fighting for Robert?

While the Tower of Joy is the legendary seven versus three fight, chances are good that Eddard's company traveled with supplies - water in particular would be useful in the arid mountains of northwestern Dorne. And by the time Eddard made it to the Tower and back, then to Starfall, the news of the Targaryen defeat would have promulgated through Westeros. Rhaegar's Kingsguards may have been zealots fighting to the last, but most of Westeros would have laid down their arms, particularly given Robert's very generous pardons.

So in that sense, yes, it is quite realisitic.

Thanks for the question, Ekendall.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[ohnoitsmyra]

howland reed and arthur dayne at the tower of joy! i need to do more scenes from asoiaf, such a good way to practice full illustrations

[racefortheironthrone]

In the House of the Undying prophecy Rhaegar is described by Danaerys but the woman is not described. Could this be Lysnna Stark and Jon Snow instead of Elia Martell?

No. Rhaegar never saw Jon Snow alive, because he died at the Trident several months before Jon was born - since Ned was present at Jon's birth and had ridden all the way from King's Landing to the Tower of Joy to get there.

Moreover, we can use context clues and process of elimination to figure out who's who. Since Rhaegar says "there must be one more," and the baby is referred to as a "he," the child must be Aegon.

Which means the woman absolutely is Elia.

Rhaenys was born in 280 AC, probably towards the end of the year since Elia and Rhaegar were married that same year. Elia was bedridden for six months after giving birth to Rhaenys, so Aegon's date of conception was probably at least three months into 281, which doesn't leave much time for Aegon to have been born at the end of 281/very beginning of 282.

Aegon's birth nearly killed Elia and rendered her infertile; it is extremely unlikely that Elia would have allowed Lyanna Stark anywhere near her precious "newborn" son (or been in condition to receive her) so soon after her humiliation at the Tourney of Harrenhal. Moreover, we know that around that time of just after the New Year of 282, Rhaegar unexpectedly left his wife and newborn son behind on Dragonstone and took to the road with his companions, riding back to the Riverlands to the area near Harrenhal where he rendezvoused with Lyanna.

Finally, it's just not credible that Lyanna could have made a secret trip from Riverrun to Dragonstone and back to Riverrun without anyone noticing. Given that Lyanna was almost certainly at Riverrun getting ready for her brother's wedding, there would have been people at the castle who would have seen her comings and goings - as in fact was the case when she did rendezvous with Rhaegar, and Brandon found out about it.

[icediamonds]

ned stark and howland reed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arthur dayne

[asoiafreadthru]

A Game of Thrones, Eddard I

He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned.

The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes.

Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black.

After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding the body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it.

“I bring her flowers when I can,” he said. “Lyanna was…fond of flowers.”

[amber-laughs]

In my personal opinion a lot of people misunderstand the situation around Ned's battle at ToJ. Ned and his men fought and killed several men of the Kingsguard. But why? Why won't they let him get to his sister even though Rhaegar and Aerys are dead?

"I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege," Ned told them, "and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them." "Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne. "Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him." "Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell. "But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee." "Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. -Eddard X

Aerys is dead. Rhaegar is dead. Aegon is dead. Rhaenys is dead. And they know Prince Viserys is alive and unprotected at Dragonstone with a respected knight. Why not go to him? The next in line. Why stay and guard Lyanna? Because they're not guarding Lyanna. They're guarding their King. Jon Snow. They are the kingsguard and their knees do not bend easily. They cannot bend their knee to anyone other than Rhaegar's last living son. They know Lyanna is dying, they know Ned will take Jon away. They might even think Ned will kill him then and there, why not? His faction killed Aegon and Rhaenys. They aren't stopping a young man from seeing his beloved sister, they're stopping him from killing their rightful king.

[ackermental]

what did you mean you're not really a fan of rhaegar x lyanna?

Well, that's a complicated one. I'm more neutral towards them, let's say.

From the fanon point of view I do enjoy this version: a dashing, handsome prince kidnapping a young lady that he fell in love with. True love from the first sight, supposedly unhappy matches for both of them, running away together to have happy sex, resulting in the birth of THE CHOSEN ONE, who will save the world from the ice zombies, etc. Tragic ending for both of them, but the child survives to make their parents proud! Fire and Ice elements, referance to the title!

It checks out all of the boxes, when it's presented this way, how can you not like it? And I do myself enjoy reading some fanfics about those two, I'm not going to pretend that I don't. Also, I think it's absolutely fine if you believe that this version is canon, if you enjoy this part of the asoiaf fandom, if you love those characters, you name it.

But while reading the story, I must addmit that it was never how I saw their reletionship. Like, I know that for some reason this is a particularly touchy subject for most of this fandom, but let's stop pretending that GRRM writes some tragic Snow White stories. He's a sci-fi story writer, and a horror sci-fi at that. And it just so happens that I've read a lot of his books, before I've ever looked at GOT. So you may or may not believe me when I say this, nonny (since it's not really my purpose to change your mind, I'm just trying to show my point of view), that this whole fairy tale presented above is the most removed thing from Martin's writing style.

Ok, I'll just get it out of my chest: book!Rhaegar gives me fucking creeps! Any time when I actually start thinking about Tower of Joy and what transpired there, I find it hard to fall asleep. Again, I'm not exaggerating, I have nightmares about this shit.

Now, before any of you 'Rhaegar was a pedo, Rhaegar cheated on his wife, Rheagar forsake his duty so that he could rape a child' enthusiasts jump on this wagon, let me halt you where you stand.

No. I don't believe that Rhaegar found abandoning his realm, mother, brother, friends, wife and children to fuck a girl he only met once a year ago very pleasing. Actually, nothing less than madness could be responsible for such a thing to even accur, and yeah, that's what I believe: that Rhaegar went mad. Mad as in mad mad or mad as in obsessed, that I'm still not certain about.

The question is, if it was because of the fact that his parents were siblings or was it because someone was messing with his mind? Well, again, based on a long list of Martin's works, it was obviously the later. Either Children or Bran made Rhaegar absolutely obsessed with eugenics. Obviously, not in the way that we understand eugenics now. I'm pretty certain that, like always, he was presented with some bullshit prophecy, just like 90% of the characters in those books were, or he was convinced that this was the way for the House Targaryen to reclaim dragons. After all, Rhaegar was connected to this quest since his birth (Summerhall).

And like, a lot of things connected to Rhaegar and Lyanna story brings to my mind things like: breeding people for the specific set of genes, the repeating themes of roses, crown, young lady and Harrenhal (Sansa storyline), hatching of dragons, fire and blood (more specifically: a blood sacrifice).

We know that there needs to be a specific set of genes in order for a person to hatch a dragon. But maybe there is something else as well that is needed after almost two centuries.

So yeah, with the canon we have access to now, I'm, unfortunately, of the mind that somebody was sending green dreams to Rhaegar about the return of the dragons, same dreams many Targaryens had before (Egg to name one). He was convinced that Lyanna had the right set of genes, maybe thanks to her skinchangin abilities. This was probably done after something went wrong with Elia (who I believe was also picked for this purpose, but maybe hadn't had the right bloodline after all) or (and it is my baised opinion as a huge Martel fan, so take it with the same huge grain of salt) Rhaegar felt more comfortable with sacrificing a girl he didn't know, rather than his wife of many years. Which makes this whole thing even more ironic, because we know what happened to her. (Although was it his fault, or was the rebellion inevitable and Rhaegar just decided he didn't have to or even couldn't wait anymore?)

To whom even is the Prince who was promised actually promised? The world? The gods? Is it an exchange? That is, if we look at this whole thing from Rhaegar perpective, because none of the prophecies or the gods in GRRMs works are actually real. They are always false, always sent to manipulate human kind, to bring catastrophy and a hive-minded civilisation about. Did the Children of the forest, a hive-minded race, convince Rhaegar through false dreams that he needed to produce an heir with a very specific bloodline? Did they sold him some bullshit about three heads etc. after he failed with Elia? Did they convince him that he needed to kill the mother in order for dragons to hatch: a life for a life? Or was it about killing/sacrificing the child? Or both. Or maybe neither should have died according to some old texts about Dragons, but then at least one did anyway?

As for the whole legitimization and wedding and all of that... I don't think that Rhaegar was really concerned with those things 🤣. Sorry for laughing, I swear I'm not trying to be waspish. I just honestly find the idea of Lyanna and Rhaegar wedding hilarious, and the presence of the Kingsguard as a justification for this idea even more so.

Were the Kingsguard there to protect the child, or to make sure that nobody gets out? Dayne was a great friend of Rhaegar and he probably had no love for Lyanna as a Dornishman. Whents were lords of Harrenhal (which is strongly connected to blood magic), where this whole thing had began. And since we are at Harrenhal, I always did wonder if crowning Lyanna was planned beforehand? (which would mean that Rhaegar did his research or he had a sudden, one might say, gods sent urge to crown Lyanna, both versions equally disturbing). And Hightower element might be why the whole thing went to seven hells. They did couse an entire war in order to get rid off the dragons. Why would it change? Hightowers do like getting their hands dirty with dark magic, so who knows, maybe Rhaegar did ask them about some rituals. Espacially if they have a copy of Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History from the time of the Dance. Maybe even the same one that Alicent was reading, who knows. And maybe they've changed the recipy a little bit, tricking Rhaegar in the process.

So yeah, the Tower of Joy in my opinion was some really creepy, twisted mix between Summerhall (hatching dragons), Duskendale (kidnapping and raping - because yeah, Serala did rape Aerys, only this time it was a Targaryen doing the kidnapping and probably raping too) and Danelle Lothston shenanigans. Not very romantic, even in a tragic way, if you ask me.

Anyway, like I've said, I have nothing against the version most fans believe in, it's just that my perspective makes it sometimes very hard to talk about them as a star-crossed lovers when discussing things in canon.

But you do you, nonny.

[tgrlwtfr]