#Undertale True Pacifist

[howlsofbloodhounds]

Oh that’s so sweet, I love that. Im sure I would love the saving chara and asriel fanfics and interpretations too, but this ending also feels right. like they did everything they wanted to do, saw everything they wanted to see, now they move on together happy and peaceful.

especially in comparison to all the darker timelines, especially Dustale and something new. in the timeline you describe, they find themselves or don’t completely lose themselves, and they are together again knowing their people are free and happy.

[tigerbears]

The opened coffins at the end of True Pacifist make me loose my gosh darn mind.

Like, there are two possibilities for this.

Toriel buried the bodies after the end of True Pacifist (like she did with Chara.)

Asriel returned the SOULs to their bodies and brought the humans to life.

Each has its own problems.

If Toriel buried the humans, where did she bury them?

I know, you could say "oh somewhere you don't go in the game" but idk.

Why were the coffins left open? I mean I guess its to show us that they've been opened because otherwise we wouldn't know.

If Asriel brought the humans to life that adds more problems.

Where did they go? Did they just leave for the surface right away? Nobody noticed them come to life? Undertale's cast was there after all, so maybe the humans left before the cast woke up, or maybe Asriel said goodbye to the humans before returning all the SOULs to the monsters?

Wouldn't their bodies be decayed/rotten? (I know this could be hand-waved by "Asriel just healed their bodies because he had the power of 7 SOULs" but again, idk)

Doesn't this seem like too happy to just hand-wave away their deaths? I can see why that would be appealing, especially for those who've finished UTY but again idk.

This entire thing has been unable to leave my mind because the "Toriel buried them" option makes the most sense, but I cannot 100% discount the "Asriel raised the humans from the dead" option.

CURSE YOU TOBY FOX AND YOUR TENDENCY TO LEAVE THINGS UP FOR INTERPRETATION! (light hearted)

[cantheykillmacbeth]

how many of the amalgamates from undertale could kill macbeth, and under what clauses? like, does alphys count for birth mother clause?

Hm. I don't think that Alphys would be attributed to their creation; they were separate people beforehand, and clearly still hold some memories of their previous lives and even go back to live with their families in the True Pacifist ending, so we would be counting them based on whether or not their components could.

We don't get much information about the reproduction processes of any monster species in Undertale, though there are some that can be assumed based off of their real-world analogs. Mammalian monsters (such as Toriel, Nice Cream Guy, and Doggo) were most likely a live birth, while avian and reptilian monsters (such as Alphys, the Red Bird in Grillby's, and Snowdrake) were most likely hatched from eggs, though there are a few exceptions, so nothing is 100% certain.

Snowdrake's Mother: Most likely candidate. While she is made up of multiple monsters like the others, the one that was Snowy's mom seems to be the most prominent one. Gender Clause and presumably Unconventional Birth Clause (since she was a bird).

Lemon Bread: The only confirmed component is Shyren's sister, though there are clearly other monsters that seem to have an equal amount of control. We clearly have inspiration drawn from Aaron and Moldbygg, and concept art shows that the sprite was originally meant to incorporate Woshua as well. While any of these could have been considered 'men,' Lemon Bread is referred to with she/her pronouns, so Gender Clause is still probable. Shyren's species seems to be based off of Angler Fish, which are hatched from eggs (applying for the Unconventional Birth Clause), while Aaron is clearly based off of seahorses, which (as discussed previously) apply for the Birth Parent Clause due to the male giving birth instead of the female. It's unclear if either of these should be carried over to Lemon Bread herself or if they would cancel each other out.

Reaper Bird: Despite being called a bird, this one is made up of a Final Froggit, Whimsalot, and Astigmatism. While Astigmatism doesn't have a real-life analog, the other two resemble a frog and some sort of flying insect, like a butterfly or moth. Since most frogs and flying insects are not live births, we can assume that Reaper Bird at least applies for the Unconventional Birth Clause.

Endogeny: Unfortunately, I don't think Endogeny could kill Macbeth. They are an amalgam of dog-people; dogs are live births, ruling out UBC, and it's said in the True Pacifist ending that Endogeny includes the parents of multiple dog NPCs, implying that at least some parts of Endogeny identified as men, presumably ruling out GC and BPC as well.

Memoryhead: We have zero clue as to what monsters make up the Memoryheads, and their sprites seem to be completely unique. We don't have anything to go off of to confirm or deny; the same goes with the other miscellaneous overworld Amalgamates.

Thank you for your submission!

[jonahmagnus]

Hey guys, I got to New Home but I checked the wiki and it says I needed to double back out of the CORE to get the Undyne phone call for her and Alphys's date. I want to get the True Pacifist ending, how do I activate it from here?

[toothlespoggers]

hands up if you’re one of those people who grind on the pacifist route of undertale

like I will find a good spot where I can easily save and rack up easy monster-spares so I get a bunch of gold n stuff. like I do the grinding dance that ppl do for genocide but I do it on pacifist and just mass spare people to get their money.

In my mind frisk is a pacifist grinder

[flushed-for-the-trolls]

A Character Analysis of Flowey/Asriel and Chara Dreemur (and why some people view Chara as evil (or its source)

So in the fandom, there's a bit of a disparity in how people view characters, a notable and parallel example is Asriel Dreemur, Chara's spiritual brother so to speak. Asriel is interpeted at a sad fluffy goatboi who really just got fucked over by seemingly every conceivable force in the universe. Chara is sometimes interpeted as an evil psychopath with very little to redeem themselves.

So why do people view Chara differently?

It's context. We got so much more time with Asriel Dreemur and similar controversial or "bad" characters, but we got none at all with Chara.

There are only six instances (that I am aware of) where we can glean anything from the game as to what Chara is like. Four of them come from the genocide route, but the two that comes from the True Pacifist Route doesn't paint them in a much better light either.

The first is where Flowey recognizes us as Chara immediately after exiting the ruins, which is telling that Flowey seems to recognize the first genocidal human as his dearly departed best friend.

The second is in New Home on the Genocide Route. (I didn't include Neutral or Pacifist as it's from the perspective of the monsters, and it doesn't really talk about who Chara was, or what they acted like, just how the Underground felt as a consequence of them being there with the monsters.) At this point in the run, Chara seems to be mostly in control of Frisk, however, is not kind or warm at all to their supposed best friend, even scaring Flowey with their "creepy face". That creepy face could either be the face where Frisk does not emote (which Sans points out) or Chara's signature smile which we see whenever Chara is shown, which is, admittedly, very little.

The third is after the Sans boss battle, where Frisk (perhaps under total control of Chara by this point) strikes down both Asgore and Flowey. If we are under the impression that Chara is controlling Frisk, then that means Chara willingly struck down their best friend and father figure. Even if we assume Chara is just an onlooker, they simply brush off the fact that Frisk just killed the only two members of their family, even though that not even a second after we kill Flowey, Chara comes up and is fully capable of killing us.

The fourth instance is the fact that Chara is fully willing to endlessly revive the world for the player to murder everyone over and over again.

The fifth is after the Asriel Boss Fight, where Chara's OWN BEST FRIEND admits that Chara wasn't all that great, not evil, but this is the same guy that was willing to destroy and reweave the fabric of the universe just to have Chara by his side again, that's a lot to do for one person, and a lot to pull an Uno card on.

The Final one which comes from the completion of a Soulless Pacifist Run, is where Chara kills everyone regardless of the fact that you went out of your way to spare every monster.

But now that we've discussed Chara, we need to talk about Asriel.

I don't think I need to say this, but Asriel and Chara's circumstances are wildly different.

For Asriel, he didn't start out as a mass murderer, he started out helping and befriending everyone. And his genocides didn't necessarily start as him wanting to kill monsters, he became curious after (presumed) countless cycles of doing the right thing.

For another, potentially the biggest factor is that Asriel lacks a soul, which seems to be the source of ones empathy. Even when you give Chara your soul at the end of a Genocide route, they still actively choose to kill everyone you befriended at the end of the Pacifist route, while at the end of True Pacifist, Asriel learns and accepts that he is wrong, even believing that he's not deserving of forgiveness, and he won't fight it if you decide that you don't.

In the end, Asriel does what's right by relinquishing all the souls, even though it means he must return to the worst possible version of himself, an unfeeling, uncaring flower. Asriel must make that sacrifice, even when it's understandable for him to want to be selfish, to want to cling onto this new chance at life.

This gets even better though. At the end of the Omega Flowey fight, Flowey will actively protest the idea of you sparing him, and won't try to dodge if you choose to strike him. Even as an apathetic flower, he still seems to understand why you'd want him dead, but not why you'd ever consider sparing him after he's tried killing you several times.

We never see anything like this for Chara, no growth, no development, so it's hard to see redemption for a character that seems to be uninterested in it.

That's not to say that Chara is necessarily evil, but their actions most certainly are.

When it comes to these sort of grey areas, I like to think about two quotes that work in conjunction from the same game

"Just because you do bad things, that doesn't make you a bad person"

And

"No matter how far you push your feelings down... they'll always come back somehow. And what you do with those feelings... That will be your truth."

Both of these work in tandem to say that it's not your actions, but how you respond to them which tell on who you are at heart.

There's all of that and probably even more, but to add to this, it's also about the sympathy a character can garner. Chara chose to enact out a plan which would result in their death and that of countless humans, seemingly disregarding how it would make Asriel and everyone else feel. Asriels death is a direct result from the plan being put into action, and it often feels like Asriel got the short end of the stick throughout life. Being forced to watch your friend die of their own volition, being forced to carry out the plan, being slaughtered by the humans, and fading away in front of your mother and father. Not even mentioning everything with Flowey. And finally, being so close to being whole again, only to have to fade away into a flower once more, all for the sake of doing what's right.

In the end, Asriel accomplished what he and Chara set out to do, but he isn't even able to celebrate it properly because he's the only monster that can't be there with the rest, all because fate is a bit of a shithead, and really screwed him out of his own life.

For Asriel Dreemur, there is no happy ending for him. He started out good and got corrupted, and finally regained his own sense of self after coming to terms with what he did, Chara at most started out okay, and became corrupted. Like I said, we just don't know enough about Chara Dreemur to map out their psychology, or who they were as a person.

In contrast, we don't really see anything that makes Chara nearly as sympathetic. They seemingly chose to die of their will, but Asriel never got to make peace with that.

So I've tried to go through and catch everything, but if something seems out of left field, or sounds like it's responding to something, it's because this was initially a reblog about a post where the user not-so-subtly suggested that because some people view Chara as female, that it was somehow the only/main reason Chara would be viewed as evil for their actions throughout their influence on the various routes

I don't understand how anyone could come to this sort of conclusion, and as should be obvious, I think the discussion is more nuanced than it being boiled down to sexism. That isn't so say it can't be sexism at play, but I don't believe it's got some allure or captivating hold on the Undertale fandom.

In any case, after finishing the rougher draft of this post, I figured it might be considered rude to throw a whole ass analysis as a reblog. So I decided to make it an original post.

I know this is likely not new, or unique, but I still put so much effort into this analysis to just throw it away.

I also understand that I may be incorrect about some of the things I said, I may have neglected to mention things, I am always open to a kind and common debate about my post, please keep it civil, however.

If you read this, thank you so much for taking the time to, have a good rest of your day!

[aceis-tired]

Currently obsessed with the fact of when you call papyrus in muffets parlor he defends her high prices and then tells you to meditate on an image of a tiny spider with tiny pink booties.

[rinqueen6]

I FINISHED UNDERTALE AS A TRUE PACIFIST

go watch my video or i'll turn off the sun 🐐

[skullzanta]

Midnight Rant about Undertale's real Problem

It annoys me how visciously people try to, and fight against backseating in Undertale for one reason: while backseating DOES ruin quite a few suprises, the game is designed in a way to encourage Backseating. Why? The ONLY way to get the "Pacifist Ending" is to literally play perfect Start-To-Finish. ANY Mistake that remains ruins the run. Kill ONE Froggit? ONE enemy? Your entire run is pointless if you want the Arguably Best designed and True Ending of the game. You don't kill every single enemy? You are completely spared of consequences. The game is TOO Binary in a sense that you need either purity or you get neutral.

Now, I understand wanting purity for the sake of the ending, but Deltarune avoids this issue entirely by not only having a tutorial(And a thorough one as much as needed too), and forgiving your sins of Chapter 1 Twice(Susie vs C. Round and Chapter 2's Intro). That is a good thing(Albeit Idk if I agree with the Chapter 2 Intro's forgiveness being so total) But it makes clear the objective, this is a marked improvement. In Undertale Undyne calls you a serial killer for killing a froggit she could not have known about under almost any circumstances.

You see a player kill one enemy, and not reset because they don't know how binary the system is, play the entire game, and then arbitrarily have to re-play the whole game just because of a mechanic of overt purity thats never explained til you reach the end of the game. There IS value to killing toriel as some videos have pointed out as a natural lesson... But that is something that nobody knows to even think of as a relevancy.. Yes there are realistic consequences but theres also killing a froggit once in the ruins before figuring out how the game works and having a doomed run. If you just play neutral and want that, sure, fine. But the fact it has 0 forgiveness mechanics, 0 explanation or hints, 0 ways to comprehend the issue... That I believe is a HUUUGE Flaw with Undertale.

Backseating ruins things like killing toriel, plot twists, unique things to find out and more importantly there are revelations like EXP and LOVE. Albeit theres some that are so obscure you have to backseat enough to atleast hint to trying something somewhere(Arguably, that is. It is completely fair if you disagree) but also the sheer extreme excess of how pure you need to be in a run is problematic too in a way that makes people want to not have a streamer/youtuber dislike the game because of one tiny mistake that easily could ruin the entire experience by forcing them to re-play the whole game for a single ending.

[agentravensong]

thinking about how the extra area added on to a pacifist run of undertale, the true lab, is about alphys's past mistakes. how it ends with the story reaffirming that, despite the pain she's caused, the thing that matters is that she has now made the choice to do the right thing. she's still worthy of her friends' love.

thinking about how undertale doesn't expect the player to get a pacifist ending for the first time. how it's more likely than not that the player will kill toriel the first time they battle her, how lots of players don't initially figure out how to end undyne's fight without killing her, etc. what it expects — not even expects, really, but hopes — is that the player, if they care enough, will use their canonically acknowledged power over time to make up for those mistakes.

no matter how many neutral runs a player has done before committing to the pacifist run, the thing that matters to the characters, to the story, is that you've chosen, now, to do the right thing.

compared to alphys, the player honestly gets off lightly, in that you're the only one (other than flowey) who really remembers any harm you might have caused. and any direct guilting the game could have done about it is long past at this point. instead, as undertale often does, it makes its point via parallels: alphys caused harm, and she knows it. she has committed to being better. in doing so, she has unlocked for herself a better ending to her story. and she deserves it. she's forgiven.

those structural narrative parallels are all over undertale, if you know where to look. and that's one of the things that makes it so fuckin' good.

[m-chromatic]

Undertale yellow all routes spoilers

undertale yellow.... aggie!!

[tailsdollr]

would you love me if I was a flower

[karmaspidr]

Just a reminder that is ending exists.

'I have places to go' has so much potential for storytelling.

Frisk could have a loving family that they want to return to. Maybe they were so traumatized by the Underground that they believed that anything was better than staying with them. Maybe they feel like they don't deserve Toriel's love and care.

SO MUCH UNTAPPED POTENTIAL!!

[howlonomy]

Might I pester you for another monster clover?

clover: just happy to be here :)

[halexyon]

oh who am I kidding?

Until we meet again, friend. 💛

[toothlespoggers]

dude like, the monsters when they reach the surface in true pacifist are like gonna be so rich, like humans might react poorly to their existence, but I mean *they have so much gold*