#VASSA IS SO INTRIGUING HOW ARE YOU ALL NOT IN LOVE WITH HER

[gracie-rosee]

How is there literally one person writing fic for Lucien and Vassa? Like are y’all not intrigued by their potential? Does Russian folklore not interest you? A curse that can only be broken by true love??! The fox and the Firebird?!!!!!!! Hello?!?!?!!!

They are so slept on, I might just have to take things into my own hands.

[lovemyromance]

“Oh well Rhys & Feyre didn’t like each other at first” and “Nesta and Cassian couldn’t stand to be around one another at first” … “So Elucien might not be on the page NOW, but it IS endgame, that’s just how SJM writes her pairings 🙄”

But… it’s not though.

Even if they are enemies, even if they are not friends or lovers or anything yet - There is always intrigue. There is always attention, drawn to the other person. There is always SOME feeling, whether it be love, hate, attraction, or annoyance.

Feyre was told Rhys was the enemy, a monster, and yet when us readers read those scenes, we still shipped them together in ACOTAR. We were rooting for them in ACOMAF. Why?

Because their scenes, even if they were not on the best terms, were full of emotion. Full of tension, passion, some kind of pull to the other person. Their interactions left me feeling amused/scared/warm/shocked no matter what.

Even Nesta and Cassian, before their book, they were constantly at each other’s throats. But even then, you could tell Cassian would’ve done anything for her. They were willing to die with the other, and they didn’t even have time to be together yet 🥺. He was simply drawn to her, he could not stay away.

But Lucien… he is away. Not just physically, when he resides in the human lands with Vassa & Jurisn, but also on the physical pages in the book. He is barely mentioned in the story, and usually only around instances with Elain, if ever.

And in those instances he is mentioned with Elain? They are uncomfortable. They are awkward. They are avoidant. This is a fact, pointed out by nearly every single IC member, so it’s not even a reliable narrator thing. Elucien has not had many interactions, and they are all lukewarm, filled with apathy.

You can crow all you want about “oh that’s how all SJM relationships start, hate turns to love” but the don’t even have hate. They don’t have love.

They have indifference.

It is hard to write a couple that is indifferent to each other when they have quite literally the one main, revered reason in the fae world to get together: a mating bond. Like you have to go out of your way in SJM land to write a mating bond NOT as a good thing.

Nesta & Cassian’s bond wasn’t even revealed but Nesta was willing to die with him in ACOWAR. She might have been annoyed with him and hated him, but she never avoided him. She couldn’t. It’s as simple as that.

Elucien are mates already! And everyone knows! What is stopping them from getting together?

And no, it is not “Elain is still said she is fae and still mourning over Graysen.” Maybe in ACOWAR she was still mourning, but by ACOFAS she was adapting to this new world, their holidays, their traditions. She made friends, she glowed with health. And by ACOSF she is sneaking off to have a rendezvous with the Spymaster in the middle of the night. She is Elain “Put it on me” Acheron. So no, she is not still being held back by her trauma or her ex fiancée. It’s clearly written in that bonus chapter antis hold as their bible - Elain was READY for that man.

She’s not ready to face her mate though. It’s been 3 books and she still can’t even be in the same room as him. 3 books and she doesn’t even use his solstice gifts. 3 books and she doesn’t even care if he’s in Velaris or not.

Feyre was calling Rhys the most beautiful man she had seen the second they met, and Rhys was willing to die with her in just ACOTAR, before their mating bond even snapped.

Nesta & Cassian were willing to die for each other in ACOWAR, before their mating bond even snapped.

Azriel was willing to die for Elain to save her from Hybern’s camp. She kicked those hounds off him with her bare feet.

I’m not saying they’re mates or anything, but they have shown the same desperate longing, the same obsessed traits as the other couples. Elucien is the discrepancy here. Because even though they have already been established as mates, SJM has written their bond as something clearly different from Nessian & Feysand.

But I thought it was obvious.

[theladyofbloodshed]

Chapter 6

(Sorry you had to wait 6 months)

Limbs aching from holding the heavy bow, Nesta was ushered into the home by Lucien as the sun began to set. If there was any sort of frostiness between her and Vassa as the queen emerged for the night, Lucien’s warmth melted it quickly. Although she did not know the mortal queen very well, Lucien ensured the conversation flowed easily amongst them then when Jurian arrived back, the conversation was taken up a notch. Nesta was happy to sit beside the stove as words were parried amongst the group although a deep longing for something like this began to grow inside of her. Somehow these three mismatched people had come together and a friendship had bloomed. Although she had Emerie and Gwyn, who she loved dearly, their interactions were always shaped by Cassian or he was always nearby as if to oversee it. Nesta did not have friends she could go and visit without assistance or Cassian lurking near.

She was broken out of her wistful dreaming by Lucien’s hands on her shoulders, encouraging her to get to her feet.

‘You’re a guest so do not need to help us to cook,’ he explained. ‘If you’d like a bath, I can run one for you or you can get comfortable in the lounge. Vassa has a few books you might like.’

‘There was one in your room actually that intrigued me with the burgundy cover.’

Lucien swept his head downwards. ‘Help yourself. Shall I run you a bath?’

Nesta stood rooted to the spot, blinking at him. Surely this was a trick of some kind? She waited for Lucien to lead into a line about massaging her or helping to wash – like Cassian would – but, instead, he merely waited for her answer.

‘A bath, please.’

When the water had been running for long enough, Nesta entered the bathroom with clean clothes bundled under her arm to find Lucien using his magic to heat it. He swirled his hand through the water, ensuring the heat was thoroughly mixed.

‘I wasn’t sure how hot you liked it. Vassa prefers it scalding.’

For a moment, Nesta had forgotten they were beneath the Wall where magic could not be employed to heat the water in the pipes. She remembered the days of heating buckets of water over the fire after pumping it from a freezing well – then the bath being cold by the time the second bucket had heated.

‘You do this every time?’

‘It’s good to let magic out.’ He added, ‘I don’t always do it for Jurian.’

With only the sounds of water hitting the metal tub, Lucien continued letting his fire magic crawl beneath the metal tub until steam rose up towards the white tiles.

‘That’s deep enough,’ she said.

There was only five inches in it, but that was deep enough for her.

‘It’s not a problem,’ replied Lucien. ‘My family have a strong streak of fire in them.’

‘It’s not- It’s not that.’ Nesta stared down at the shallow water. ‘It reminds me of that day. I don’t like the water very deep.’

To anybody listening, it ought to have sounded pathetic. It really was pathetic. After all this time, Nesta still could not take a bath without guiding herself through it with a constant inner monologue to reassure herself. But this was progress for her. Long gone were the days of standing in an empty bath and using buckets of water to pour over her bare body. Cassian didn’t understand. Couldn’t understand how she wasn’t over it yet.

Lucien glanced between her and the bath tub before realisation dawned on his face. The tap was turned off.

‘I’m sorry. I didn’t think.’

‘It’s alright,’ she reassured him. ‘Nobody does. This is perfect.’

Lucien left her to bathe with an expression of hopelessness on his face that Nesta wished she could scrub away. None of this was his fault. Once, maybe, she blamed Lucien for the Cauldron but he’d been collateral damage, just as she had. Ever since, Lucien had made amends, serving another court, a different high lord than the one he’d pledged his life to.

Her arms and shoulders were sore from archery. The bath had done nothing for the ache except bring it to the surface. Thankfully, she managed to button up the last few buttons without assistant but her muscles burnt afterwards. From all of the trainings with Cassian, Nesta had presumed she was at the fittest she would ever be, but clearly her feeble arms required improvement.

At the bottom of the stairs, she caught the tail end of a conversation.

‘Give me one good reason.’

‘I’ll owe you,’ replied Lucien.

Vassa’s laugh sounded then, ‘Jurian, being in an Autumn princeling’s favour can’t be thrown away so easily.’

Jurian swore then she heard the back door creak open.

‘The things we do for love,’ said Vassa with a sigh.

‘It’s called being kind. Perhaps you can look into it.’

The kitchen door opened, flooding in light to the darkened hallway and both Lucien and Nesta jumped.

‘Oh. Dinner is cooking,’ said Lucien in greeting.

Instead of joining them in the kitchen, Lucien guided Nesta through the corridor to the lounge where pillows and blankets were piled onto the lurid couch. The book that she had been after was placed on the small table nearby with a freshly brewed cup of tea and Lucien encouraged her to take a seat. Without asking, he lifted her bare feet onto the other end and tucked a blanket around her lap.

‘Where are your socks?’

‘I knew I’d forgotten to pack something,’ she said. ‘I’ll wash the ones I have later.’

Lucien made a tutting noise. ‘We may not have a magical house that does the work, but you are a guest here.’

‘I don’t mind to help,’ she insisted.

Lucien gave a laugh. They came so easily from him but were never sarcastic. ‘I grew up amongst high lords. Vassa is a queen. Jurian is the best chef among us – but I doubt any help you can give will salvage our meal. It will be edible. That is all I can promise.’

There was something alluring about his expression that Nesta could not take her eyes from. Lucien had a way of making her smile. Perhaps because he wore his own readily that it encouraged her own one to make a shy appearance. Everything that he did was easy or carefree. Not in the way that Rhysand did what he wanted and damned the consequences, but in a more natural way that suggested he’d bloom no matter the season.

‘Enjoy your book.’

It was strange to be doted upon. Stranger still to not have to pay as a result. Cassian was offended if Nesta wanted a night in the library alone to read so had to make it up to him, or if she wanted to see Emerie, he’d want payment in the form of her body. Lucien did not expect anything. He’d sat her down here because he’d known that was what she wanted.

Nesta was two chapters deep into the book when Lucien returned. Without a word, he raised the blanket from her feet and began putting a pair of his own socks onto her feet.

‘I cannot bare to see cold feet.’

With a soft patter of rain and a belly full of tea, Nesta could not stop her eyes from closing tucked up on the couch. It had been so nice to just be her for the day. No mate to tip-toe around, no inner circle to disappoint, no training, no desperate need to prove she was worthy of being around them. Each moment that she was away from the Night Court made it more difficult to return. What did she have to look forward toby being there?

The sound of the front door opening had Nesta bolting upright in anticipation.

Surely, she’d receive a warning if it was Cassian?

Her fingers gripped the blanket, heart thudding louder.

Jurian, with hair damp from the rain, shucked off his boots and entered the room carrying a package in brown paper. He winked at her. ‘You are a lucky, lucky girl.’

‘Am I supposed to know why?’

The mortal man gave a rough laugh. ‘You’ll figure it out eventually.’

The dinner was ready minutes later. A roast of lamb had been prepared with buttery mashed potatoes, parsnips, carrots, and cauliflower. Whilst mortal food lacked the same strong tastes as fae food, it was still good. When her arms began to ache, Lucien wordlessly took her plate and sliced the meat for her to save her a job.

‘What a good little exile he is,’ mused Jurian.

Jurian wasn’t wrong. There were no other males like Lucien. She could not think of another male who would be willing to leave his mate well alone when his desire was likely telling him another thing. Elain had been granted space and patience while Cassian had encroached on her space and worn her down until she’d given up her choices.

Nobody protested when Nesta collected the dishes and insisted on washing them up – as a good guest should.

Vassa called, ‘Are you making the tea, Jurian?’

‘Oh-ho, I’ve got something better.’ Four bottles of wine were placed on the table. ‘None of this faerie-piss. And – as requested – for the silver witch.’

The brown package was unpeeled to reveal a cake smothered in thick frosting.

‘Uh, no calling her a witch, thank you.’

It took a moment for Nesta to realise that the cake was for her – and Jurian had decided upon a new nickname for her which Lucien promptly shut down.

‘The cake is for me?’

‘You better share it,’ said Jurian, pointing a knife at her. ‘Carrot cake. The good stuff.’

‘There’s a little mortal bakery in the village,’ explained Lucien. ‘You probably know it.’

‘He is obsessed with this cake,’ added Vassa.

‘And now Nesta needs to try it,’ he finished.

It was a marvellous evening with each one clutching a bottle of wine in one hand and a knife in the other to chop slivers off the cake. It was divine; the frosting complimented the sponge which melted on Nesta’s tongue. They reasoned that carrot being a vegetable meant the cake was healthy too.

‘If I wasn’t a faerie, I’d have my face pressed to the glass as soon as it opened,’ said Lucien before licking his knife clean of frosting once the cake had been demolished. Nesta was fascinated by his tongue. It took an effort to snap her eyes away from him.

They talked and joked with laughter coming easier and easier as the wine went down and inhibitions loosened. There was a camaraderie amongst them that Nesta was envious of. Lucien and Jurian were the butt of most of the jokes, but it never went too far. Occasionally, a joke was made about Vassa but never did they mock Nesta despite her having lots to prey upon. The mortal pair had taken Lucien’s lead when it came to approaching her, to which Nesta was thankful.

Late into the night, Jurian clapped his hands together and announced that he was headed to bed. There was a pointed look given to Vassa on his exit.

It did not take long for her to make her own excuses – that she needed to return to her room for a while – despite the curse being lifted for only a few more hours.

Above their heads, they could make out two sets of footsteps rather than just Jurian’s.

‘She can never resist his summons.’

Nesta’s mouth fell open. ‘They’re not?’

‘Oh, they are. For many months. But they refuse to acknowledge it. I’m not allowed to acknowledge it. There’s a silent agreement that we don’t speak about it.’

‘They’re good together,’ said Nesta.

Lucien snorted. ‘They’re good at each other’s throats.’

‘Sounds like my mating bond.’

Lucien pushed the last dregs of his wine towards her so she could drown her sorrows. There was no denying it that from the start, she and Cassian had been at each other’s throats. It had not eased. Arguments were their common currency.

In the dim light of the final candle still burning, Lucien’s golden eye shimmered. This was a male who had suffered enormously. The Night Court was the third court that he’d found a home in – and Nesta could not understand why he’d risk that safety for her.

‘Why are you helping me, Lucien?’

Say it’s because you’re my mate’s sister, she thought. Give me a reason to stop staring at you and longing for what you could offer.

Lucien tracked a finger against the scar on her thumb. ‘Because you deserve better than he gives you.’

‘And what do you deserve?’

He stopped stroking against her thumb. Their eyes snapped to each other. They had suffered, both of them. From the ashes of the flame, maybe there could be something new.

The temptation to lean and press her lips to his was growing stronger. Rather than let the thought take root, Nesta stood. ‘I should go to bed.’

‘Yes,’ he agreed.

In darkness, they both took to the stairs. She was painfully aware of the warmth of Lucien’s body behind hers as they moved through the house.

It wasn’t fair. None of it was fair. Elain always had the better luck. She had their father’s love, their mother’s blessing to be herself, and now a mate who would move the heavens if she asked. And she did not want him.

Not fair. Not fair.

It blared through Nesta’s head as she crossed through the doorway into Lucien’s bedroom.

This was a male worthy of love, a male worth loving. A male who had treated her better than her damn mate with nothing to gain.

Nesta fumbled on the dresser for a way to light the lamp. Her hands trembled.

‘Here,’ he murmured, stepping into the room. Fire kindled on his fingertips as he leaned across her body for the lamp. The lapel of his jacket swept against her ribs as his fire swirled about the wick. ‘It will burn all night – until you blow it out.’

‘And if I want to keep it?’

Lucien stood upright. Each time he inhaled, she felt the brush of his chest against hers, so close they stood. He was so handsome. Not a man from her mortal stories of dashing knights, but a faerie prince who could enchant her. He already had.

‘Then its yours.’

Despite the small voice in her mind that told her Lucien was off-limits, Nesta raised a hand to cup his face. Her thumb brushed against the knotted scar tissue. He leaned into her touch, eyes closing at the intimacy.

‘We shouldn’t do this,’ she whispered, still not lifting her hand away.

‘No,’ he replied. His hand went to her waist, tugging her the final few inches so their bodies pressed into the other. ‘But I still want to.’

Nesta did not know who moved first. It could have been her. It could have been him.

Their lips met and she saw stars.

[bats2102]

Exploring Rejected Mating Bonds and Non-Mated Relationships in the ACOTAR:

Delving into the prospect of rejected mating bonds and non-mated relationships in future ACOTAR books has sparked my interest. While this exploration might not be everyone's favoured avenue... humour me for a moment. I wanted to consider how three particular pairings—Helion+LOA, Jurian+Vassa, and Eris+Mor—stand out as potential candidates for this unconventional narrative.

LOA+Helion: Maternal Love Prevails that of a Mating Bond

There are numerous theories circulating that the Lady of Autumn (LOA) and Helion are potential mates (I don't think they will get a book). While the concept of either character enduring a rejected or incomplete bond is not what I would wish upon them, exploring such a dynamic could offer a compelling narrative angle. It could serve as an illustration of the idea that a mother's love surpasses even the powerful connection of a mating bond, highlighting the notion that the bond between a mother and her children transcends all other. This incomplete bond wouldn't necessarily disrupt the overarching storylines but could be seamlessly integrated into the existing dynamics of the narrative, including Lucien's lineage as Helion's child, the escalating conflict with the Autumn Court, and the unexplored mating bond between Elain and Lucien. For instance, LOA might have chosen to sever her mating bond to shield her children from the wrath of Beron and the Autumn Court. Her willingness to endure further abuse to protect her children could provide an exploration of maternal sacrifice and the lengths a mother would go to protect her family. Considering SJM own experience as a mother, the exploration of the power of a mother's love might be a theme she's interested in delving into. As the series progresses and, if Eris were to succeed his father as High Lord, an intriguing aspect would be to witness LOA maintaining her title as the Lady of Autumn. This choice would signify her unwavering commitment to her children, even as they reach adulthood. Supporting Eris during his transition as High Lord would be a testament to her enduring love for her family and her dedication to the Autumn Court, which she considers her eternal home. Now, you might wonder why not have Eris appoint her as High Lady? Considering Eris has three additional brothers (excluding Lucien) who may vie for the throne, he will require the support of every member of his court. Part of his reasoning for aligning with Rhysand is to secure this support. Given that Beron has held dominion over the Autumn Court as the oldest and most tyrannical High Lord, reigning with terror, the influential higher fae pivotal for Eris's rule may not yet be receptive to having an High Lady. Therefore, it wouldn't be politically savvy for Eris to bestow her with that title (Rhysand's been High Lord for 500 years, and the women of the Night Court are still getting brutalized. So, Eris not making his mum High Lady? Not exactly the be-all and end-all, is it?) Head-canon: I also have this gut feeling helion is going to die in the series. Now, I don't have any evidence to back up this claim; call it intuition. However, if such an event were to unfold, it might entail Helion sacrificing himself for Lucien and the LOA. This sacrifice could occur after Lucien and Helion have already discovered their paternal bond and forged a meaningful relationship. As Helion and LOA share a heartfelt moment before his passing, he expresses understanding and admiration for her choice to prioritize her children. Having witnessed her centuries of sacrifice, Helion feels compelled to reciprocate in kind, ultimately sacrificing himself for both Lucien and her. (I'm not wishing for it, but my gut says it's happening.)

Jurien+Vassa: Fate-Woven Bonds Beyond Mates

A non-mated relationship between Vassa and Jurien presents a compelling avenue for exploration within future books, delving into the dynamics of a human connection forged by destiny rather than through a conventional fated mate bond. This narrative choice allows SJM to portray the nuances of a relationship where there isn't a direct link binding the soul of the couple together. Despite the absence of such a bond, fate has undeniably woven their paths together, leading to a relationship laden with complexity and depth. Both Vassa and Jurien have endured sufferings at the hands of immortal beings, which creates intriguing parallels in their experiences. Jurien, a being over 500 years old, underwent merciless torment, including physical mutilation and the manipulation of his soul, culminating in his essence being imprisoned within a ring crafted from his own eyeball. This fate mirrors Vassa's own ordeal, where she was transformed into a firebird, cursed to spend her days trapped in avian form and her nights as a woman, bound to a lake. These shared encounters with immortals/fae beings not only serve as a foundation for their connection but also highlight a significant parallel in their suffering and transformation. In SJM stories couples often exhibit consistent parallels in their characteristics, trauma, and destinies, thus the mirrored experiences of Vassa and Jurien underscore the depth of their bond, emphasizing the intertwining threads of fate that have brought them together. Regardless of their mortality and a “mating bond.”   In ACOWAR's conclusion, Vassa invites Jurien to live with her and Lucien remarks that they are "two sides of the same coin" with a shared vision for the human territories. However, tensions reported by Lucien in ACOFAS suggest a charged dynamic between the two offering narrative space to explore fate's influence on human dynamics. Through Vassa and Jurien's connection, SJM can explore themes of resilience, redemption, and destiny's enduring impact on human lives. Headcanon: Jurien pours out his heart to Vassa, declaring that every painful moment endured over his 400+ years was worth it, knowing that it led him to the possibility of spending the rest of his mortal life with her by his side, not just as a partner, but as his queen. Furthermore, should their story follow an Elain + Lucien novel, it would provide an opportunity to solidify the foundation for their potential relationship. Lucien's pre-established relationship with the pair sets the stage, and I also see the potential for a close friendship with Elain. Their shared experiences of enduring transformations by immortal beings and a common human background could form the basis for a strong friendship, allowing Elain to maintain a connection to her past human life and mortality. (Plus more Elucien content!!)

Eris+Mor: Souls Bonded together but Hearts lie Elsewhere

The theory of a potential rejected mating bond between Eris and Mor is not one I particularly favor, as I would like for SJM to introduce mating bonds between 2SLGBTQIA+ characters. In response to a question about whether same-sex couples can be mates, SJM offered the following response in a 2017 interview:

“Sarah: Yes, and you can see some of that in both series. Don’t want to give anything away, but you may see this in ACOWAR when you read it. It’s also present in the Throne of Glass world. I’m super excited to write more about this, and already have a novel in mind about it." (https://emiesnook.wordpress.com/2017/05/12/meeting-sarah-j-maas-again/)

Therefore, I would like for her to follow through with this with a mating bond between Mor+Emerie (Eris+Balthazar, I said what I said... make Beron burn in his grave). However, if there were to be a rejected mating bond between Eris and Mor, I believe it would be an interesting concept. It would allow two 2SLGBTQIA+ characters to empathize with each other's inner turmoil and come to the realization that while their souls may belong to each other, they could never fully give each other their hearts. This storyline could illuminate the oppression and profound challenges endured by same-sex couples in a world where rigid societal norms and expectations frequently dictate the boundaries of love and relationships.

...

The relationships I've outlined above provide a compelling rationale for exploring rejected mates and non-mated relationships within the ACOTAR universe. These avenues offer non-stereotypical narrative exploration without directly causing further anguish/trauma to current main characters or disrupting the established plot dynamics and relationships. Allowing for the series to continue. This is where I might lose some of you, but allow me to elaborate. SJM essentially wrote ACOWAR to establish Elucien and Nessian, and in ACOSF introduced two characters, Gwyn and Emerie, who serve as perfect parallels for the two unmated/single members of the inner circle (Azriel and Mor). Both characters introduced have strong parallels regarding their internal turmoil, history of abuse, self-image, interests/habits, and personalities. It is NOT in the Night Court's best interest for a severed bond with Elucien to occur. This would end Lucien's role as the Night Court's emissary (Rhysand's "bitch"), as Elain could no longer be a persuading pawn. While Lucien himself may not object to Elain loving another (as he was willing to step back for Greysen), he cannot control the reactions and sentiments of other courts towards this development. Once Lucien's paternity is revealed, Night Court allegiance and relationships with other courts would be essentially terminated, as I believe Helion would do so to protect his son. Beron would have his reason to invade Spring, the Human Realm, or even the Night Court itself, or call for a blood duel, considering that although Lucien is not his biological son, Beron raised him and would have grounds to create a conflict. The Night Court is not well-liked, which Rhysand is aware of, and he relies on Lucien to maintain connections with other courts. Severing contact with the Human Realm due to Lucien being the connection to Vassa and Jurien would further isolate the Night Court. Furthermore, given that Tamlin and Lucien were coworkers/friends for centuries, it can be interpreted that Tamlin would defend Lucien and not provide support from Spring. As we know, the Night Court is still reliant on Spring.  Severing the bond between Elucien would not only disrupt the intricate web of relationships and alliances within the series but also limit the exploration of numerous storylines introduced by SJM. It is crucial to analyze the plotlines beyond the narrow lens of mere smut and romance, as this limited focus undermines the depth of storytelling Sarah J. Maas has woven into the narrative. By broadening our perspective, we can fully appreciate the intricacies of the plot and explore how relationships would realistically integrate into the multifaceted dynamics that extend beyond the central romantic relationship between the main characters.

(Thoughts and theories???)

[acourtofthought]

I still believe that the next book will be Gwynriel and that Elucien will close the Acotar series.

More honestly, I don't really care as long as SJM doesn't make Acotar 5 a book like Acofas.

I want an end to the confrontation with who Elain ends up with more than anything else at the moment.

I think Acosf is preparing Az's next book, for sure. Right now I'm more curious about Az, for sure.

But I love Lucien too much to be sad that Elucien came first, despite her having a lot invested in Acowar, that's for sure.

More in the interpretation of the books, I still think that Elain is left aside in the central story, in how she will leave Nortuna and have her romance with Lucien.

That's a mystery, maybe SJM pushed Elucien so far and the angst is so much that I have no idea how they will end up together.

Furthermore, I would have liked an extra focused on Elain.

But I love all couples and whichever comes first I'm happy with.

Maybe! Unless Gwynriel and Elucien are not the last two books of the ACOTAR series.

It's tough to say whether SJM has decided to add onto this world now that she's contracted for additional books and whether the new series her publisher has spoken of will feature any of these characters.

Now that she's added the possibility of time-travel into the mix, does that mean the characters of the NC will pop up elsewhere in her Maasverse? Does that mean they'll travel outside of their world? And if so, does it make sense for them to do so in the next book but not in the final book since it doesn't seem like Elucien are connected to the time - travel plots?

In terms of who will close out the series, I would be surprised if it were Elucien because I think most of us agree that the majority of Elucien book will not take place in the Night Court and because of that, it will feature characters outside the IC. Does it make sense to close out the ACOTAR series in Spring? In Day?

Feyre and Rhys kicked off the series (though we initially thought it was Feyre and Tamlin) and Rhys has always been the driving force for everything that has happened. Regardless of who gets a book, they still seem to be the sun around which the others orbit. So wouldn't it also make sense if a book that centered around the Night Court ended the series so the main side characters would be that of the members of the IC? Rather than the main side characters being Jurian and Vassa, Helion and maybe Eris to close out the series?

I see arguments for both sides.

And we were definitely given intriguing information for Az in SF, "Az is different in a lot of ways". But that's still not more interesting to me than how Lucien will find out about his real father being Helion. What "secrets" Elain might have been good at keeping. What Elain really thinks of Lucien.

And yes, I do realize people think because SJM didn't put a heavy spotlight on Elain it means SJM lost interest in her but when we're literally told, "I think she's got you beat for secret keeping" then SJM continues keeping her thoughts a mystery by not giving her a POV, isn't that a purposeful way of giving her character more intrigue?

There's many different opinions in this fandom and no one is coming out of left field when they say "Elain's book is next" or "Az's book" is next because there is enough to support both of those ideas.

I don't think SJM has pushed Elucien so far apart she doesn't know what to do with them. She had Nesta push Cassian away and sleeping with many others at the start of their book. Elain hasn't even kissed someone else so if she could pull Nessian back from where they were only to end up mated and about to married by the end of SF, she can do the same with Elucien.

SJM has only pushed Elucien apart for as long as she has because that's where she wants them start their journey. Would it make sense to have Elain softening towards Lucien before her book? Before we have her thoughts on everything she's been feeling?

Not really.

Any Elucien and Elain progress will most likely remain stagnant until their book, when we're able to finally hear her thoughts on how she's feeling about everything and she can leave the Night Court. That's the part of the argument I don't understand when people talk about how Az had more buildup in SF than her (when he actually didn't but I digress). What are readers honestly expecting from her character until her book? We know she's got to further explore her powers, we know she's good at secret keeping and the characters continue noting how stealthy she's become, we know she's not fitting in at the Night Court despite her attempts, we know she's still processing her trauma, we know she continues shying away from Lucien but not why, we know Amren and Rhys have said to the others she shouldn't be underestimated though that's what they've all been guilty of. So what buildup did Az really have in SF that we now have overall been given more information about him than Elain?

Even if Az gets the next book, I doubt we'll be getting progress on Elain and Lucien's story. Shouldn't we learn about the things she's been going through and how she really feels about him when she has her own POV rather than Az's?

[nikethestatue]

Since the fandom is divided on who the main couple is for the next acotar book, I feel like SJM and her publisher are very nervous about sharing any new info on it. Like I think they won't share who the main couple is until the book actually releases, because if they share it now lots of people will be disappointed. I'm a casual reader but I'm still looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. I'd love to see this ship war end because it's so toxic. Amazing characters like Emerie, Vassa, and Amren are not given any spotlight even though they're the most intriguing characters we've met so far. It feels like everything in this fandom is about ships and romance. We were all so excited for ACOSF but look at the whole development of their relationship, it was not the best. The writing was just not great imo. The whole book was just sex, and the whole upcoming war feels like a desperate attempt to add a plot.

I agree with You, Anon. I always said the same thing. We will find out who the MC is. But we won't find out anything about the couple(s) until the book is published.

There is Elriel, but also Lucien, Vassa. In some ways, they will be part of that book. So Gwynriel aside, because that's not gonna happen, they can't just say it will be Elriel, because it gives away Elucien not being endgame, and maybe even Vassien being endgame.

I legit wouldnt mind if the beginning of the book is also ambiguous. Kind of like she did with Feysand and Rowaelin--I want some personal drama with Elriel.

I want Elain to be all 'I thought I was a mistake!?!'

I want Rhys to offer to send her to some mission to the Human Lands, where she'd be staying with BOE.

I want Azriel to completely FREAK OUT at the prospect of losing her. I want some romantic interludes between Elucien. I want jealousy from Azriel. Maybe even Vassa. I want conflict.

I want it to be not only forbidden love, but I want Azriel to work for it. Hard.

[lufecu01]

MY thoughts after reading acosf

Being mean and cruel does not make a character badass

Being feminine and having a hobby doesn’t make a character boring

Saying a character is the kindest of all yet failing to see that kindness in the book?? Idk, she only seems polite to me.

Nesta got on her knees for Amren and begged for forgiveness, but she couldn’t even voice a thank you to Feyre?

Trauma is not an excuse to treat others like trash

Nesta being there for Elain her whole life even when she was severely depressed and traumatized, only for Elain to get mad and basically abandoning Nesta when she’s dealing with her trauma her way does not sit right with me

Acosf was a healing and growing journey, not really a redemption arc.

House of wind stairs plot. Do I need to say more?

Giving up powers you didn’t want in the first place to save someones life is not a sacrifice

She shouldn’t have given up her powers

Eris and Nesta intrigued me more than Nessian

The scene w Lanthys showing Nesta him and her together was kinda…hot

Villain Nesta could’ve been so powerful

I would absolutely love Nesta if she treated both her sisters the same and was cruel to everyone else

Feyre is severely underrated in her own series

Idk how I feel about Feyre locking Nesta in the HOW and being compared to what Tamlin did.

“Elain is Elain” what??

I wanted Feyre to snap at Nesta and bitch slap her AT LEAST once

I feel like so much was left unsaid and swept under the rug

I think I liked Nesta more in acowar than by the end of acosf

Idc, Nesta should’ve apologized to Feyre

Loved the Valkyries friendship so much more than Feyre, Mor, and Amrens

Acosf made me sympathize w Nesta, but I still don’t like her

Azriel stopped loving Mor after 500 years bc of Elain just like that?

Elain doesn’t owe Lucien anything but at least a formal rejection to him. Where’s that kindness?

She was asking Amren about turning human again, i think she would’ve asked how to sever the bond long ago.

Lucien wouldn’t invoke a blood duel.

People think there’s something between Lucien and Vassa but not Azriel and Gwyn?

Elriels relationship is like “🙂” in my head

Mixed feelings about Azriels bonus chapter

Him and Elain obviously have feelings towards each other, but how would that play out in the long run?

Elain would always have that bond w Lucien, Azriel probably has a mate out there, his shadows skittered away from her, I’m trying so hard to like them. They just give me the ick together.

How do his shadows work?! They run from someone and dance with another persons breath?

I really want a Tamlin redemption…

Elain was semi curious about Lucien in Acowar (while still being in love w Graysen, even after having recently experienced something traumatic) and after she just completely ignores him??

I don’t blame Az for thinking sexually of Elain, but dude couldn’t think of anything else?

Also don’t blame him for wondering why she’s not his mate since his brothers are mated to the sisters

He could’ve at least said he has feelings other than lust towards her idk

Why did he avoid the question ab Mor?!

Gwyn could definitely be a lightsinger(highly doubt shes an evil one though)

Cassian gifting the symphonia to Nesta is the sweetest thing ever

Ok but what if Gwyn asked Azriel if he sung bc she heard a faint singing before (like Azriel did after talking to Gwyn) and it’s actually their mate bond singing (music between their souls) or something. Idk maybe I’m reaching

Will not apologize for this:)

[andrigyn]

I’ve git inspired by the hp anon: what are your favorite acotar ships? or any ship you do not like at all as well!

OK LETS GET INTO IT! I’ll try and briefly explain why as well. When I say I “like” a ship, I mean that I actively seek content for it or would rb it if it came up on my dash.

SHIPS I LIKE:

- Neris: We all know my feelings on this one! This is what should have been.

- Nezriel: Didn’t quite get it until I read Nesta vs the Buffer by ladyofbloodshed, but it really does work. At the end of the day I want Nesta to be cared for and protected as she heals, and canon Cassian wasn’t doing it.

- Azris: They are both SO messed up but they’d be a power couple.

- Gwynlain: This is just a good wholesome ship. Every time I see art of them I’m reblogging it, but I haven’t read any fics of them.

- Tamsand: Childhood friends to lovers to enemies… need I say more?

- Rhysta: This is the wokest acotar ship, and they would be SO TOXIC but in a sexy way.

- Tamcien: They were living together for a long time, you can’t convince me it didn’t happen at least once. There is also clearly a lot of love between them, at least in TAR.

- Elucien: This pairing has so much potential it’s insane… not even just in terms of the characters just where the plot can take them (Autumn, Day, and beyond). If I don’t get to read Lucien as a love interest in canon, I’m done with these books fr

- Helion x LoA: I just want her to be happy 😭

- Lucnes: They would help each other heal, they have SO MUCH in common. SJM was wrong when she said they would tear each other apart!!

- Nesta x The Mercenary: This ship embodies what I like about nessian, but gay. We need to let Nesta be an intellectual with a muscular guard dog type character.

- Emerie x Balthazar: I love Balthazar and he needs to be brought back. I’m also intrigued by the idea of a ship that is between two Illyrians like maybe we can finally get a nuanced view of their culture.

- Gwynriel: Azriel is a total mess so he needs to shape up before he’s deserving of Gwyn, but the potential here is crazy.

- Neslin: Two deeply flawed and broken people. I like the idea of Nesta finding refuge in Spring, and helping Tam rebuild his court. She has a flair for politics that Feyre doesn’t, and from her upbringing would know how to conduct herself as a noblewoman.

- Nesta x Mor: I know I don’t like Mor, but this would be hot. Both of them would soften up as soon as they got to know each other more.

- Cassian x Rhys: Another one where you can’t tell me this didn’t happen at least once.

- Elriel: I came around to this one recently. Do I like it as much as elucien? No, but the forbidden aspect does appeal to me.

- Nesta x Jurian: thank you ladyofbloodshed for putting this in my brain. It’s just so… 🥰🥰

SHIPS I EITHER DISLIKE OR HAVE COMPLEX FEELINGS ABOUT

- Canon Nessian: i mean where do I even begin with this… ACOSF has been discussed to death. However I do indulge in some nessian fanfic from time to time, and the talented people on here know how to correct the dynamic so it’s something we can all enjoy.

- Feysand: I was all in on feysand until the baby thing happened in SF. However, there is really good feysand fanfic out there that I will read from time to time.

- Emorie: Mor is really not my favorite character, I can’t lie. However, I could come around to this if I read a good fic or if we get a sympathetic storyline from her in a future book.

- Feycien: Idk, this just doesn’t work for me. I can’t explain why I’m not feeling it, but I’m not.

- Feylin: I see why people loved it in TAR, but it’s not something I will seek out bc it’s just been nuked so much by canon. I prefer them with other people.

- Tamlain: Their personalities would not work together. I’m also too elucien brained to even consider this.

- Amren x Varian: After Amren and Nesta fell out, I was not vibing with her. But even beyond that, this pairing makes no sense.

- Moriel or Mor x Cassian: NO. JUST NO.

- Lucien x Vassa: I don’t like ships where one party is mortal, especially with Lucien bc he has been through enough as it is.

[abraxos-and-ataraxia]

I am OBSESSED with the idea of having two mates. The drama, the fun, and ofc the love. Who do you think would be the most protective and why?

If I’m being realistic? Everyone. Fae are nuts my dude, fae males are even worse. Mating bonds turn on beast mode and it’s insane. But just for fun, let’s rank some of the characters we know on how well they’d react to a triple bond. Starting with the least happy:

10. Eris. Listen ok until beron is dead, Eris is anti mate. Would move to cretea to get away from any risks. Would absolutely panic. Is currently panicking at the mere thought of two people for beron to exploit, way worse than just one. After Beron is dead? I still think he’d panic out of habit, but once he gets past it, he’s insanely protective. If anything happened to his mate(s), Eris would burn the world down for spite

9. Cassian. Is NOT happy. Would not want to share nesta at all, is very aware that she could rule the world and all the males in it and does not want that. It’s less that he has two mates and more that she does, he’s worried about how many others there are. For all he knows, Eris is next. He shudders at the thought

8. Feyre. Is intrigued by a threesome in theory and less excited in reality. Will express interest because rhys is excited, but is actually quite concerned with the dynamic. What if she’s not feyre darling anymore? What if they are?

7. Tamlin. Would actually be so anxious, is convinced that his mate is going to reject him any day. When he has a second mate, same process. Needs constant reassurance, is a grumpy boy for weeks, waiting for the other shoe to drop. When his mates accept him and snuggle him and call him a good boy, he’s instantly a golden retriever. Is the worst when it comes to being protective. Will go beast mode at the slightest provocation. He somehow managed to earn the unconditional love of two mates, isn’t gonna let anything risk that

6. Nesta. Was lowkey anti mating bond for a few decades, but by the time they discover a third, she’s adapted a bit better. When she discovers the new mate, is reluctantly pleased. Wonders if she clawed extra mates from the cauldron as well. Initially concerned, but she loves being worshipped in bed and out of it. Would be happy with additional worshippers. Gets annoyed when her mates act possessive, since it’s double the annoyance

5. Rhysand. He joked about a threesome with feyre but now he actually has one. Forever. Has a momentary panic of “how is this possible” before determining that he’s just cauldron blessed and thank goodness feyre built a giant house. They’ll need it for all the hot sex they’ll be having. Every room shall be christened in under a week, guaranteed.

4. Lucien. Is 110% baffled. Occasionally wonders if he’s supposed to have a gazillion mates and doesn’t know it (was jesminda the first or something? Maybe vassa is next? He hopes not jurian too). Lucien would accept it in stride, like ok the cauldron blessed him and he can go with it, but secretly he wishes he had elain to himself. He’s had enough chaos for another hundred years without adapting to an extra mate. Later falls in love with the idea of three mates, is not insanely protective, but elain is

3. Tarquin. He just feels chill to me? Like if anyone would accept having two mates and not question it, I think it would be tarquin. Just shrugs and buys a bigger bed.

2. Azriel. This one is a surprise to me, but imagine telling him “hey so you thought you’d never have anyone meant for you....surprise you get two!” I think he’d cry for 24 hours straight. Then immediately whisk his mates to a secluded island to keep them safe. Drills them on safety measures once a week. Turns into the biggest softie you’ve ever seen in private though

1. Helion. Would actually be ecstatic to have more than one mate. “There’s plenty of me to go around”. Would be double the possessive psycho with two mates though, you look at one and it’s game over. Is the first to suggest a double king sized bed for cuddles. Would love to have one mate on each knee, such a power pose on the throne. Gets that painting commissioned to hang in the bedroom.

[bookofmirth]

I don't think that I will ever understand Vas/sien. I'm okay with people shipping them, even when they barely have any romantic coded scenes. It's just weird seeing people shout how Vas/sien have canon scenes and have an "actual spark" when the only canon scenes they have is just Lucien making a face. Yeah, they may live together and only Sarah knows what they do off page, but we have only seen just 3 little moments of Lucien making faces when it's about Vassa. I believe they count Lucien freeing Vassa and the whole "lord of fire and the firebird" thing, but Vassa hates the curse and Lucien is also the heir to the day court, a court where there is enough sunshine for a certain someone named Elain. idk... it just isn't enough for me to say that they are in love or have a high chance to become endgame. Not when there is already another potential LI for Vassa and he's called jurian. Jassa may not have many canon scenes either, but there are these lines "2 sides of the same coin" "At each other's throats as they like to be" that Sarah has thrown in for Jassa. We have seen them bantering in canon as well.. there's also the little history that they have when Vassa saw through all his lies. Vassa is a queen, Jurian a general, they're both mortal and they both seem to care for their people and seem to have the same goals. Their personalities seem to fit well together too.

I believe that Jassa is the type of ship that Sarah would go for. They’re equals and banter a lot. We all know that she doesn't go with the ships that don't have any tension or banter where they also challange each other... which he have not seen at least once with el/riel and I think it's also too late for El/riel to have that. Vas/sien seem to be just good friends and I dislike how people assume that they can only be lovers, just because he's a guy and she a women and his mate is crushing on a bat. Gwynriel challange and tease each other, Elucien have a lot of tension and angst, Jassa banter a lot as well - exactly Sarah’s type.

I get it in the sense that I understand why people see side characters who have 1-2 intriguing traits and we try to build up things about them in our heads. It's a fun exercise to imagine what they are up to when they aren't on the page, like how did the Suriel know everything, and what's Alis up to now, and I hope Tomas Mandray is choking on his tie somewhere. We know Vassa is a mortal queen who has been cursed because she was sold out by the other queens, she still commands her armies, and she and Jurian tend to butt heads and she's kinda crass. That's about it!

And we don't know a ton about her and Jurian other than like you mentioned, two sides of the same coin, but to me it's enough to imagine what they'd be like together. Lucien clearly has third wheel syndrome. He's annoyed at these two mother effers who need to just bone already.

But Lucien isn't like that, to me. I mean, he *isn't* the kind of character that we have minimal info about and so can insert whatever traits and feelings we want to imagine. We already know a lot about him and he has so. Much. Going. On. Clear connections to various courts and powerful, political figures in them, a complicated romantic life, a complicated family life. We know what his relationships are like with Beron, Feyre, Tamlin, his mom, his brothers, and we know enough to guess at what his relationships with Helion and Elain would be like. I think we fully know what's going on with him, and that includes looking at Elain in longing in acosf. (When people say they aren't interested in each other lmaooooo the word "longing" is NOT ambiguous, babes.)

Those are my two cents. I don't really care what people ship or what characters they like, but I just don't see it ever happening in canon!

[strangecreationchaos]

Who do you ship Elain with? I know she isn't a mate with Azriel but I wish they were they both deserve to be happy he only really only loved Mor and waited for her for 500 years I don't know what I will do if I see him not be with Elain as well but I do know that Sarah does the love interest switch that gets me worried and you know Rhys doesn't approve do you think there is a chance?

for me it's forever elriel! and i also believe in the possibilities of azriel being another mate of elain mainly because the way he behaves around elain !! and also he can smell and see the elucien bond besides the scene when elain being turned was intriguing as everyone's power and Mating bonds are nullified under the king's power...so may be the cauldron gifted elain a new mate that is lucien! but they are being uncomfortable around each other since the beginning and it's being same for last 4 book.. nothing has changed a single bit between them while at the same time lucien is also seems more comfortable and happy with vassa..i know sarah always twist the tale but she always gives us the hint before hand!!

feyre and rhys were the best example.. since their first meeting they both are attracted to eachother. rhys pretend like hating her but since under the mountain it was him who was constantly protecting feyre! the moment he was the only one to bet in favour of feyre while she was fighting with the middengard worm i knew its going to be feysand. because it's more about understanding, relationship growth and support. and the only person believing in elain is azriel! and the only person who is believing in vassa is lucien..

besides if sarah has to twist the couples then why she put so much efforts on story build up for others? rather she should given hints for elucien's growing relationship! some shift between them.. atleast a conversation to begin with but nahh... nothing! another major plot is making lucien helion's son! why drag his parent's love story, she was beron's mate and their relationship was not good and that was enough! then why put a whole plot for her lover and a child with her lover? if elucien was to be a normal mate relationship! why not give them few scenes to grow feelings for eachother! but she didn't. all she gives us is more and more elriel and vassien moments!!! and all these questions makes me believe sarah is digging for something different!! even if she doesn't make elriel or vassien mates , they will be the couples with choice... the couples who chooses eachother for love not a forced bond.

now about rhysand !! my highlord never do anything without any solid reason! in feysand pov he is concerned about elain and she voicing her trauma for the first time..he sees a different elain not the innocent and silent woman who need protection of others but a woman who can stand for herself! who have the power to make decisions for herself.. ! and he is willing to give elain the choice! so as feyre..! but az kissing her under the same roof where lucien was still there ,while feyre is pregnant with a complicated pregnancy..! and so many enemies are waiting for a single chance to declare a war.. everything he did is to avoid that situation! it doesn't mean his decision will stop elriel from happening because that won't change their feelings for eachother..azriel is still aloof and sad for elain and elain was hurt when az left..it is not like they stopped loving eachother....or feelings things towards each other..!! but it will be elain's choice to choose whom she wants ! not azriel's ,not lucien's. and we all know whom elain is attracted to. so yeah i see there is 95% chance of elriel and vassien to be the end game! and the if rest 5% chance happens then i don't know how sarah gonna explain all the foreshadowing from last 4 books she gave these couples!!!!

elriel is happening! so as vassien!!!

i hope this is satisfying.. thanks for being my first ask !!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ sending love 💞💞 and happiness 😊😊

[duskcowboy]

Clues to Lucien and his mortal Love?

I find it interesting that I’ve come across a couple moments in which Lucien is mentioned in the context of having a mortal lover/mate.

The first is in acotar when Rhys discovers Feyre with Lucien and Tamlin, and Lucien claims she’s with him…to which Rhys replies:

“I knew you liked to stoop low with your lovers Lucien, but I never thought you’d actually dabble with mortal trash.”

I know this line is believed to foreshadow how it is actually Rhys who is the one in love with the mortal Feyre, but I think it could also serve the purpose of hinting to Lucien really falling in love with a mortal in the future—Vassa.

Then, the second time this happens is when Ianthe is defending her actions in acowar and says she helped turn Feyre’s sisters Fae so that Feyre could “be with them forever” and says this about Lucien being Elain’s mate as well:

“And if Lucien had discovered that Elain was his mate beforehand, it would have been…devastating to realize he’d only have a few decades.”

As in, if he’d met and realized Elain was his mate when she was a mortal, it would’ve been painful for him to love her and only have her mortal lifespan to spend with her. But this could very well come true if he truly falls in love with Vassa…

Lmk what you think!

I want to end this by acknowledging I know that this could all be a coincidence and not mean anything, and I know that SJM had initially intended for Nesta to be with Lucien at that point in acotar, but I thought it was intriguing that it happened more than once!

[hellacioushag]

my random questions about the acotar world that will probably never be answered:

i know rhys is “the most powerful high lord in history”, but considering fae can live 500-1000+ years how many high lords have there actually been…? like his power is super impressive no doubt, but is he most powerful in a history of 400+ rulers or like 50 high lords?

what exactly is mor’s power? can she tell when someone is lying or does she compel people to speak the truth?

so rhys’s sister looked fully illyrian with the wings and all. her mom was illyrian and father a high fae. why wouldn’t rhys think about the consequences of sexing it up with feyre when they’re both wings out?

i get it was explained that if feyre attempted to shape shift again it could hurt the baby, but if she and the baby were already going to die why couldn’t she shift before/during child birth? or like winnow the kid out of her uterus? i need someone to explain these magic laws that allow a sonogram, but not a c-section.

how long were lady autumn and helion having an affair? we know he saved her during the war, but did they start their affair then or did they have the affair beforehand/he was the reason she held out on accepting beron that led to him going to save her? did they carry on throughout the war while beron was away and stop only to come together one last time years later and she ended up unexpectedly pregnant with lucien? or did it last longer and only stopped because of the risk of discovery/pregnancy with lucien? can i have this prequel?

who was helion before being a high lord? he was crowned under the mountain, same as tarquin, but he was alive during the war…so who was he? a relative of the previous high lord/courtier? was he a soldier? is this why rhys and helion are so close? did they serve in the same unit together during the war? were they lovers? did they participate in the same orgy? cause i get solar courts stick together, but rhys isn’t close with dawn like he is day.

if hybern (the country) were all unhappy with their lot and wanted to take over prythian/human lands why would that desire stop with the king’s death? the people there are still hungry and struggling. they’re still under the influence of the king who sold his people on war because prythian were the enemy and the reason for all their pain and suffering. if amarantha was as powerful/terrible as she was and she was only a general wouldn’t there be a power vacuum in hybern (the country) for a new leader that could be worse than the king?

why are high lords only high fae? why wouldn’t the mother/cauldron bless the “lesser fae” with that magic in all of prythian history? seems sus imo that there has never been a lesser fae who gained the high lord powers, especially when you can have mates between high and lesser fae like rhysand’s parents.

why is tarquin the only one who is vocal about actually wanting to bring change to the status quo? is he not actually high fae? did he fall in love with a lesser fae? what are his motivations? i get politics are sneaky, but you would think now that rhys is no longer hiding behind his scary persona he would be actively talking about lesser fae politics being the most woke one of all.

if beron thinks so little of his own subjects that he would straight up murder one because his son was in love with a lesser fae why isn’t there more intrigue and rebellion in the autumn court? you would think his subjects would rise against him and plan to assassinate him for the way he has treated them. even with the fear of his court/power there should definitely be a group of lesser fae and sympathizers planning an attack against him. tamlin’s lands were pretty much abandoned because of how shitty a ruler he is so why wouldn’t autumn be in shambles with how crappy a ruler beron is?

why does azriel have to torture anyone? rhys has his daemati power that he can use to get inside someone’s head for information. even if the person being tortured is trained against it wouldn’t he as the most powerful high lord in history be able to smash their shields to shit? or there used to be amren with her power to make people think they’re hurt who could have fake tortured them. or mor and her truth power, whatever it is, could have gotten it from them. why does az need to dirty is hands and physically hurt other people on the daily?

if beron knew lucien was not his son wouldn’t he have killed him while he was in nappies? arranged for an accident to off him? hell even he encourages ruthless murder between his own bio-sons so why wouldn’t he want the reminder of his wife’s infidelity removed permanently? if he is still clueless, how? if you can scent a mating bond and a pregnancy surely you would be able to scent or at least magically test for parentage?

does no one really know about mor being queer? I know she has not confided in her friends aside from feyre, but am i to really believe no one in the inner circle has any idea she is into women? that rhys hadn’t accidentally seen something inside her mind that she wasn’t quick enough to hide away when he would use his powers? that azriel’s shadows hadn’t seen her with a woman during the war or after a night at rita’s and told him? that cassian hasn’t observed mor checking women out more than men when they go dancing? that amren hasn’t heard or seen things herself? i’m supposed to just believe these people who have spent 500+ years together really know shit about each other?

how many other dreamers like mor are trapped in the court of nightmares because rhys allows them to basically govern themselves until he needs to remind them who is their high lord/needs something from kier? how many women are sold and bred for their power and have no say in their futures because no one is speaking up for them?

what exactly was the point of drakon and miryam? like they legit added nothing to the story. if they didn’t show up to fight amren would still turn into her true form, lucien and papa archeron would show up with ships and vassa, rhys would die destroying the cauldron, the high lords and feyre would bring him back to life… there was literally no point. if it was to find a place to hide the cauldron they could have done that somewhere else. there was no point to their story and it turned into needless filler that could have been used on other developments.

feel free to add your own questions or provide answers to some of mine.

[talkfantasytome]

During the monthly court meeting E/lain had this kind of behavior, at this meeting Nesta or Lucien were not present to justify this kind of behavior (which are behaviors that are pointed out that she has with both, Nesta in ACOSF and Lucien every time they meet).

“I’d have E/lain try her hand before we approach him, though.” E/lain had already departed with Feyre, claiming she had to be up with the dawn to tend to an elderly faerie’s garden. Cassian didn’t exactly know why he suspected this wasn’t true. There had been some tightness in E/lain’s face as she’d said it. Normally when she made such excuses, Lucien was around, but the male remained in the human lands with Jurian and Vassa.”

Do you have any thoughts or theories about this?

Because many people point out she behaves like this around Lucien but she has also behaved like this with other people.

From the pov of the other characters we also see them pointing out things about her personality or how much she tries to belong to NC and has her ignoring Rhys as well.

Any thoughts? I like to read about your point of view

Hi! And thank you so much! I appreciate your interest in my point of view. <3

This ended up longer than I thought it would - as these always do. Not super crazy, but still. The last paragraph is also a bit of a TL;DR.

E\ain's Lie

This is a super interesting paragraph, not going to lie.

I believe some people have interpreted the tightness and escaping to be because Azriel was at the meeting. However, I don't really believe that. If she has a crush on Azriel, why would she escape with some excuse? Why wouldn't she stay around? He's apparently incredibly pretty, so just staying would mean getting to look at that masterpiece a bit more. 👀

However, the more important tell to let us know this isn't the case is this:

Normally when she made such excuses, Lucien was around...

Azriel is around a lot more than Lucien. If E\ain was doing this because of Azriel, I feel like they'd see this happen more when Lucien isn't around.

It's also important to note that Cassian observes a tightness in E\ain's face "as she'd said [she had to be up early to garden]". He didn't observe it throughout the dinner, no, solely as she made her excuses. It's why Cassian thinks she was lying, making an excuse to leave.

However, if she was struggling because someone else was around, it would have been a noticeable change in her personality throughout all of dinner. Az is around more than Lucien, but we also know he's not around that much, because he's trying to stay away from E\ain. So it wouldn't be an "well, Az is around a lot, so it's just not noticeable that she's stressed around him too". Just as, when Lucien is around, we do see that E\ain is a bit more withdrawn.

So, I don't believe it was Az that caused E\ain to make an excuse to leave. It could have been, but personally I find that less likely, or she'd have been doing it more often. Regardless of whether it's because she likes Azriel or because she views him as a threat on her own plans, I don't think that's the reason.

It could be just that she's less comfortable around the group without Feyre.

I find this one an unlikely possibility, but it is possible. Despite what E\ain says, she really is not part of the court, and she's definitely not part of the Inner Circle - no more than Nesta. In fact, by the end of ACOSF, you could argue Nesta is more part of it. But Feyre is the only true IC member of the Archerons.

But, either way, I don't see E\ain as being friends with any of the IC members. Not even Az. They may have some sexual chemistry there, but they're not friends. They never talk and they don't really know each other at all. So it could just be that simple.

But, unlikely if this is meant to be foreshadowing.

She also could just be tired and making some excuse to sound less lame - we've all done it, don't lie. XD

Again, though, I find this unlikely. I don't think her face would be super tight in doing this, because we know E\ain can lie. Or, at least, use words and smiles to her own advantage.

Rhys's brows lifted. "You'd think they'd been told plague had befallen the house."

I pulled the door open wide enough to let them in, then quickly shut it against the bitter cold. "My sister E\ain can convince anyone to do anything with a few smiles."

It's not exactly the same, but this is one of the first things we really learn about E\ain beyond "pretty and likes flowers", her ability to convince others to do anything. To use her wits and wiles to get her way, and it's pretty obvious that's something she's used to in her life. It may not specifically state that she can lie, but she was convincing the staff to leave the house so that Fae could come into it. And we know she definitely wasn't telling them that was the reason why.

She can lie, she can stretch the truth, to do and get what she wants. With ease.

So, the fact that her face is tight tells me this isn't an easy lie for her. This isn't a bland excuse.

More so than that, why not just say she's tired? Why not use that as the reason? That's an easier lie. But no, it was something that would include an explanation for her being out early in the morning.

My conclusion: she did have something happening the next morning, but it wasn't gardening for an elder faerie.

Now, I could be wrong. Cassian's assumption was that E\ain was just lying to leave the dinner. She was making an excuse to go up to bed. You can see that because he drew a parallel to when E\ain makes excuses around Lucien, which we can assume actually is to just get out of the room where he is.

And maybe he's right. Perhaps that observation was meant to be foreshadowing about some other form of discomfort E\ain has around someone in the IC. But, based on my reasons above, and how that would happen more often, I find it unlikely.

Thus, the lie must be about something other than her just making an excuse to get away. And she uses it to also explain away why she won't be in the house the next morning.

Think about it - she made the excuse in front of Rhys and Feyre too...maybe. Maybe not. I read it as E\ain and Feyre went up together at the same time. Either way, at least one of the people she currently lives in this house with heard the excuse, so they'd expect her to not be home early the next morning. Why do that if all she was doing was making an excuse to get away from someone? The next morning she may have to answer questions about that, which I don't think she would want to do.

Now, I honestly have no idea what she was doing instead. After the bonus Az POV chapter, we know she wasn't having a secret rendezvous with him. Based on that chapter, it sounds like the two have had minimal interactions other than at dinners and things at the River House. But that's just what isn't happening.

Some wonder/hope that she's having secret meetings with Lucien. As amazing as that would be, that her "discomfort" around him is, maybe, more just lying to everyone else and pretending they aren't spending time together. I don't think that's the case. We're told Lucien is remaining in the human lands, that he looks at E\ain with longing, and that E\ain didn't even thank Lucien for his Solstice gift to her.

For someone who has a defining trait of being "sweet", that's kind of a big thing to not do when getting a gift. Like, even if she's pretending to not really care about him or know him, not thanking him is...kinda awful.

So, it would mean she's meeting with someone else. With whom? I honestly don't know.

I am intrigued by the concepts and theories about E\ain seeking out a way to try and become human again. I find it plausible, and that there was some information in ACOFAS to make it sound like she was trying to do this only makes it more so. Also, E\ain is definitely more stubborn than I think we've seen, but she's stubborn in a selfish way. Remember that she was doted on by Nesta, but also at times by Feyre, and her father. I, personally, believe that she is likely the most spoiled in nature. In fact, I wrote a post about how I'm wondering if E\ain is somewhat narcissistic.

With that, I don't think E\ain would have been deterred by Amren's comments. All I think that would have done would have made E\ain try to be more secretive and subtle in this pursuit.

I am also intrigued by the thoughts that, in doing this, she ends up siding with/helping Koschei, essentially turning into a villain. Of course, if this does happen, I think it would be revealed very end of book 5 or very beginning of book 6, and in that reveal she would plummet to rock bottom and then her book would be about her journey out of that.

And I do love the idea of a possible semi-villain E\ain because, in the end, her current development has been "she's pretty, and good, and sweet, and kind"...so, she can't be further developed and be made more "good". If her development is just her continuing to be good, that doesn't actually give us more of her character. As we learn about E\ain more, I am convinced we will learn about sides of her that aren't so "good".

E\ain & the Night Court

Okay, I'll be much faster on this, because I've talked about it before as well.

My perspective is that those vignettes, comments, narrations, etc. from other characters' POVs are all very important. I do believe this is some foreshadowing happening that tells us E\ain will not end up in the Night Court. And, I believe, her initial leaving of the Night Court may not be a particularly pleasant separation. I'm not saying it'll be absolutely awful, but maybe it's E\ain leaving on her own, or following someone she shouldn't follow due to promises of a better life, or something similar.

The other possibility is that it will be part of E\ain's emotional journey, to understand that she's not living in a place that's right for her, and that it's OKAY. It's okay if the Night Court isn't the right place for her, even if it is for her sisters. It's okay if she needs something else, if she'll find value somewhere else. It's okay to be different. I think that will be a huge thing for E\ain to learn and accept.

But, yes, I do agree with the perspectives that say those passages are telling us that E\ain doesn't belong in the Night Court. Not because she's not good enough, just because it's not where she shines. And you can find a deeper analysis on that in this post, in the "Home is Where You Shine" section.

I will say, though, that I don't think she'll end up doing anything crazy in an attempt to prove she's part of the Night Court. She's defensive about it, for sure. But if there's a big goal we're going to see her try to work toward, and maybe do so in a not so great way, I'd say it's more likely something about trying to be human again. When with the NC people she wants to be included, because she's selfish and self-centered and narcissistic - and I don't mean that as an insult, those are just some of her personality traits, and they're not necessarily a bad thing. However, I would say that's more likely why she wants to feel like she's a part of the NC. Because her sisters have both started to truly become a part of it, and she's never been the outsider. She's never been the third wheel. It was always her and Nesta. Now it's her and Feyre. But if Nesta is so much a part of the Night Court, if her two sisters will be working together on things - well, that leaves E\ain on the outside, and she can't handle it. Not because she wants to work with them. Not because she actually wants to be part of the Night Court. But because that's just not how it goes in her mind.

And I truly hope that in her journey she'll come to understand herself better, and understand that it's okay to be different. E\ain will find her place, with people who love her, care for her, adore her FOR HER. They don't simply dote on her and protect her because they think she's weak or fragile. No, she will find those who will see the wonder in her. Who will appreciate her stubbornness and ability to convince anyone to do anything. And who will only ever want the best for her because they love her. I look forward to meeting them.

And, hey, if it happens to be Jurian and Vassa and Lucien, I can see it. E\ain could use some snarky Vassa and Jurian in her life. XD

Summary

So, there you have it. That's my perspective on this. I do think E\ain was likely lying. I think the lie went beyond her just trying to get out of the room, and more so was a lie about the why or what she had going on the next day. And I do think she may have had some meeting she didn't want anyone knowing about. I know it wasn't with Az, I don't think it was with Lucien, but I don't know who else it could have been. I like the idea that it has to do with her trying to become human again, which fits in with my thoughts on what her emotional journey will be like in her book, and I'm intrigued at the thought that it could lead to her working with Koschei. But I'm not yet convinced that's definitely the case. I'll have to try to read it again, but so far I'm not sure there's been enough foreshadowing to prove that. The best thing would be her interest in helping find the Dread Trove, except I don't believe she actually was interested in that. I think in that discussion she was just more interested in proving Nesta wrong, because she never actually did anything to try and find the Trove. So, it would be cool, but we need more info before I can say I definitely think that will happen.

And yes, I do agree E\ain likely doesn't belong in the Night Court, based on all those internal thoughts we've seen. It's very telling when you have three characters observe how black does literally nothing for E\ain, how it drains her.

[offtorivendell]

Hello, I hope you're doing well. I'm curious, what are some of your favorite HCs or things you really want to happen in regards to Vassa's character and her involvement in the next books?

(Also, *Throne of Glass Spoilers* the theory of Vassa killing Koschei gives me the same vibes as Lysandra killing Arobynn and it's something I personally would love to see.)

Hello! I'm so sorry it's taken this long for me to answer your ask, I've been busy in real life (😭). But thank you for sending this in! 💜

I do have some headcanons - more like crack theories lol - but they tie into a huge theory post that I'm working on, which isn't close to being ready, so I'll answer with what intrigues me instead, if that's okay? I guess the thing I'll ask of readers is to keep in mind going forward that the folowing is potentially darker than a YA story, but these books are NA/adult now. If you're okay with that, feel free to click "read more."

Spoilers: events from SJM's Throne of Glass series, up to and including Kingdom of Ash.

Basically, I'm really invested in there being some underlying relationship between Vassa and Koschei - NOT romantic; at least, NOT currently!!! - but when Koschei said, "Tell my Vassa I'm waiting," it got me wondering why he would call her that: my Vassa. She can't have been his prisoner for more than a few years before ACOWAR, at most, so unless he calls all of his swans "my [insert name here]," what is so special about Vassa?

Like many, I suspect that Vassa is tied into Koschei's imprisonment at the lake.

🔥 Is Vassa a phoenix, and the firebird form represents her dying each day, to be reborn from the ashes when the sun sets? Does this hint at some form of immortality? Is she potentially symbolic of someone who was important to Koschei in a past life of hers (hence my "NOT currently," above), or does she descend from someone who played a pivotal role in his life, like the fae warrior who trapped him at his lake?

🔥 Alternatively, is Vassa’s variety of firebird based on the Slavic firebird mythology, which is associated with magic and prophecy, and can be either a blessing or bad omen for whomever keeps it captive? This option would make more sense to me, personally, given the name Elain gave her was "bird of fire." So, is Vassa associated with any sort of prophecy outside of what Elain saw in ACOWAR - "I saw young hands wither with age. I saw a box of black stone. I saw a feather of fire land on snow and melt it." - and will she be a blessing to Koschei, or bring about his doom? Obviously I hope for the latter - yes, total Arobynn vibes - and Vassa deserves to be involved in Koschei's downfall. I personally think that the "snow" could refer to Koschei, and the "feather of fire" melting it could mean that Vassa will play a key role in his death.

🔥 Given I assume that she and Lucien will end up together, how will that tie into a potential Wild Swans and/or Swan Lake retelling? Will a declaration of love break her curse? Will Vassa's curse be broken earlier in book 6, and will she and Lucien, along with others, attempt to free the remaining swans as part of their battle against Koschei?

🔥 Like in Throne of Glass, will their be a sacrifice/mass-death of a group of warriors?

🔥 I think that the confluence of the Archeron sisters and Vassa existing at the same time is something that Koschei has been waiting for, to regain his freedom and, ultimately, his power.

There is so much potential here and, even though I'm (obviously) currently super invested in Elain, I can't wait to read more about Vassa, and see where her story goes.

[nikethestatue]

Unpopular opinion: azriel is not all that. he is an good character i am curious to read about him with elain. But honestly the only reason i am a elriel is because i am tired of the typical banter couple and i love elain and she wants azriel, if she wanted lucien I would probably be an elucien but she doesn’t. Plus lucien doesn’t seem to understand her and became boring in book 2. I wish there was a great male character that elain could be with.

So yes, and no. To me, I like him, because I think there is a much bigger story there. I think he is interesting and I want to learn more about him. I want to understand the shadowsinging, why he has Truth Teller, what he sees and hears, etc. He is one of the more interesting (if underdeveloped) characters in ACOTAR.

SJM keeps dropping the ball on many interesting ACOTAR characters and just doesn't do a good job with them. I think she is so obsessed with Rhys, all she cares about writing is him, and how glorious he is and everyone else falls by the wayside.

Let's face it, Lucien was by far the most interesting character in ACOTAR, after Rhys. You wanted to read more about Lucien. You wanted to understand more about Rhys. Yet by ACOMAF, SJM basically murdered Lucien and his development, and he became this oblique character, who is neither here nor there.

I wish that I, as a reader, had to battle myself over Azriel and Lucien. If I new more about Lucien, what is driving him, what's he doing, how he found Vassa, what can he see with his magic eyes, etc. I'd be a lot more intrigued and interested in him. At least Azriel is set up with a number of mysteries that are swirling around him, so I am looking forward to reading about him.

It's weird that ACOTAR is SJM's most popular books, but they are so bad compared to TOG and even CC. The characters are just flat AF and I think it's one of the reasons why there are all these whacky sub-fandoms, for Eris and Tamlin and even Helion--they are vaguely interesting characters, and the readers are thirsting for that. (And not for the author to tell them that she has no idea what to do with the male characters and needs to invent something for them because she is out of ideas.....)