#VC meta

[desertfangs]

Armand spent so much time trapped in a cult that broke him down and told him he was a monstrous creature who did not deserve love or compassion. And for centuries after, he struggled to connect to those he loved. But then the one (1) guy he ever makes into a vampire, Daniel, is the guy who believes in what a huge capacity vampires have for love. That they have eternity to love and be loved. It's just so beautiful.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Pre season 2 rant - heavy on sarcasm!

This is the... well by now somewhat meditated on rant I promised a while ago. It has a lot of cussing, so be warned.

It is a… summary comment about some views I‘ve seen around, from “bad writing“ to the “abuse“ and other things. Oh, and it's about the "lying" subject. With receipts!

I‘m getting this out of my system before season 2 hits, and before more of the press leading up to it is released, because cast, crew and writers as well as the show have given us all of it already and, tbh, if I‘m going to see anyone scream “bad writing“ or “Louis being made a liar or the memories revisited/changed is racism“ when the changes will hit I‘m just gonna block you.

Fair warning.

This is long… so under the cut.

This show has made color-conscious choices. Brilliantly so. They also have an astonishing meta level.

And what we saw was not the truth.

That much is clear now. HAS ACTUALLY BEEN CLEAR FROM THE END OF SEASON 1 ON.

Jacob has said at the TCA panel that Louis is trying to regain his true memories.

Here is a reminder of some key statements by cast and crew:

Here are interviews and statements by Assad and Jacob and Sam and Rolin and the writers & producers that what we have seen was not the (whole) truth, that Louis’ tale has been “tinkered” with, influenced.

I'm heroically refraining from adding the gifs of Rolin and his statement again. Which are from the episode insider… and remember when that aired?! Yeah… 😒

But I've seen things recently that make me want to pull my hair out, to be frank. For example this, behind the link:

...Like, not making him a whole flat ass liar is actually the point, guys. And no it does not undermine the story....

As the writers said:

I mean, I get it to an extent. It's becoming clearer and clearer that the show some people made up in their heads is not the one they'll be getting. (We've been trying to tell them, but hey.)

Yeah.... That.

Unfortunately @blackgirlasis has blocked me, (and I have returned the favor now that I noticed), we only discussed something recently, but I think the reason might have been after I posted that video, in which it is literally said that "not everything Louis says is a lie", which, given her statements here might speak for itself, especially this part of that statement:

"It is actually ACTIVELY harmful to perpetuate the idea that the Black characters aren't to be trusted with the narrative and that we need Lestat to come through with the honest accounting."

You know, I would actually agree! Which is also why I always emphasized that we did not get the WHOLE truth. I also kept more than hinting at the fact that Armand is, well Armand.

BUT - and here it gets interesting - why is JACOB's - a BLACK man's - statement discarded? Why do they do not want to hear it that Louis does, in fact, lie? And, just to be clear - I do not NEED Louis to lie, nor be proven a liar, and I think the show will do its damndest to explain via the "tinkering" that Armand did. They will give some of the blame to Armand.

But to flip one's shit over argumentation that the MAIN CHARACTER, a BLACK MAN has already stated... that is what I find interesting.

Like, why do you* (*generally spoken, not her especially) accuse people of racism over this, when HE has already said that Louis does, indeed, lie. Why is he not actually listened to? I don't get that. Why is agency taken away from a living, breathing person to give it to a fictional character? Why is his statement that "not all representation needs to be healthy representation" not kept in mind?

Louis is Louis. Louis being color-consciously handled didn't "change the character an awful lot".

JACOB said that. Here. Interestingly enough in a comment about the racial consideration the show does(!).

Louis is NOT a whole other character despite the changes, and the twists that will happen in season 2 were always set to come, as the friggin' video of BEFORE the show aired is proof of. They talked about all that. They know it didn't all happen as shown. They knew Louis did lie. But NOT about everything.

They also knew that some of the scenes did not happen (at least as shown). And now... "it’s clear that Louis is somebody hugely angry with a man he loved deeply and now presents them as a monster…" Also Jacob Anderson.

Presents. Them. As. A. Monster.

Bailey Bass said in the SDCC interview, that it is not clear who is the "villain here" in various scenes, interestingly enough, because the dynamic keeps changing. Which of course was after they shot a myriad of scenes that would not make it into the final s1 cut. Again: why is she not listened to? Why do you take her agency away to give it to a fictional character?

And I'm not even starting on the others. Sam. Rolin. The writers.

Also, re the abuse and scenes being revisited. Again, screenshot as example:

There is nothing simple about this show. Especially that scene.

BUT the show knows what it‘s doing! I'm not going to rehash all that here now, here are links on that.

AND THE WRITERS SAYING IT WILL BE REVISITED... is from December 21, 2022.

DECEMBER 22.

A revisit and a change of that scene will not be bad writing. (Or tasteless.) They already DID so in the last episode of season 1, continuing that will simply fall into line with what we have already been given. That's not bad writing. That's just the show, and there's people who just did not want to examine that.

Because it will be echoed, and it will serve a purpose.

I know the show did the meta level of patriarchal domestic abuse, but for fuck‘s sake, the story itself is about vampires struggling, and Louis is struggling.

The show has a meta level of abuse, and patriarchy, and recognizing is valid and the meta discussions are too.

But Louis is not chained to his coffin guys, he could have left, and a fight which shows off power discrepancies within the show story line is not automatically domestic abuse.

*slow clap*

No-one wants this to happen for the sake of "redeeming" Lestat. Because he does not need that redemption. They're all murderers and monsters.

They kill. For a living. LITERALLY.

THEY ARE VAMPIRES It's not about vampires trying to find their humanity.

It's about vampires trying to find a way to live with themselves, because they are, indeed, monsters.

Doubting the narrative which was TORN APART WITHIN THE SHOW is not the same as bad writing or racism FFS, nor is actually looking at what we're given - and knowing the fucking, 50 year old books. And recognizing the hints and parallels.

I have also seen the take that Lestat isolated Louis... and like, did we watch the same show? You know, even with the vampirism (which, of course™, could not free Louis as promised)...

Months of flirting openly in NOLA, public wooing. DECADES LIVING IN NOLA. Operas. Restaurants. Family dinners. (And Louis stopping Lestat there, AS a mortal...) Cleaning the cribs, years of "human entanglement" because Louis wanted it.... Banjo barbecues, political influence, wakes... Everybody knew.

(Like, I could pull up gifs here.)

"Isolation". Right. It has nothing, at all, to do with the Rite of Passage, or Louis' depression.

Of course not.

I mean, Jacob says that Louis is very depressed during the time leading up to the fight, and his and Sam's discussion here is interesting as well, but hey, I mean, why listen to the actual black actor, right.

As a last thing.

Yeah. Tell me you know nothing about the books without telling me you know nothing about the books.

And, as a note, context is important if you pull up other scenes from the VC.

Welcome to the fucking Vampire Chronicles.

Anyone expecting big bad patriarchal abuser Lestat is not going to have a good time.

And honestly, to those: don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Good riddance - and BON VOYAGE

[paintaboveyourbones]

Everybody wants Armand

I know I’ve talked about it before, but the way Khayman shows up in the midst of one of the most chaotic and tense scenes in the whole book and then just immediately starts to THIRST after Armand is pure gold.

My man has spent the last few centuries in the dirt and he is ready to get Dicked Down

“Gee, Daniel sure is lucky to have that cutie pie by his side. Wish I were that lucky! 🤭🤭”

“We’re like, sooooooo similar!”

“He’s sooo much cooler than Mael 🙄”

Meanwhile, back on planet earth, poor Mael is sweating mother fucking BULLETS about the shit show that’s supposed to go down. What I love so much about this part is that, even after Khayman realizes Jesse is his great-granddaughter and gives his vow of help to Mael, he still fucks right off.

Khayman JESSE IS IN tHE LOBBY WITH A BROKEN NECK????? YOU TOLD MAEL YOU WOULD HELP THEM!

Twink thirst is destroying his life!

[nothing-but-paisley]

Thinking about Armand's relationship with food and sustenance.

Much of his trauma relates to hunger--watching monks slowly starve in the monastery knowing that would be his fate one day, then being starved by his captors as a human AND as a vampire. Finally he inflicts this suffering on weaker vampires.

The first thing Marius does is feed him. Marius later becomes a literal source of nourishment by feeding Armand his blood, which he compares to honey. Armand often describes the lavish, abundant food at the palazzo. It's easy to see how he would grow to associate food and love.

That's especially interesting in light of his treatment of Daniel. When they first meet, he pulls his go-to coven master move (lock up+starve). A major turning point in the relationship happens when Armand orders everything on the menu for Daniel at the Copley. An abundance of food reflects emotion. It's how Armand expresses care.

On the night of the first blood exchange, Armand declares his love by feeding and feeding from Daniel. (Feeding is also an act of ownership: "you are mine, beautiful boy.")

[nightcolorz]

Unhinged Sybelle and Benji tangent (cw references to abuse csa trauma etc)

yeah so Marius’s turning of Benji and Sybelle isn’t about whether or not that was the right decision to make and isn’t made better by their contentment living as vampires in late canon. Benji and Sybelle’s relatively happy lives as vampires are irrelevant to me. The cruelty of how he did it is made worse by the hypocritical nature of turning a kid into a vampire after so firmly insisting that turning children is morally abhorrent and smth he should’ve never done, yeah, but that’s only a small part of it.

It was so awful and upsetting to me bcus of the deliberate stripping of Armand’s agency. See, we have a whole book where Armand tells the story of how throughout his entire life and childhood he was forced into the role of submissiveness and/or dependency. whether that be his childhood religious devotion that would eventually lead to his being buried alive for God or being sold into sexual slavery or Marius’s mentorship of him that ultimately intended to teach him to stay loyal and dependent on Marius’s authority to Marius’s relationship with him sexual and otherwise to the cult indoctrination, up until Lestat comes along and tilts his own view of submission and devotion as his only way to survive and function in the world onto its head.

He gives him a theater and then he gives him Louis. Armand floats around, tries to find purpose without devotion through using Louis and Daniel as tools to understanding the modern age. The modern age to Armand is possibility and independence, things he’s never had so much access to and doesn’t know exactly how to apply to himself until the devils minion chapter when he’s like ah ok I get it, life without devotion is something I’ve always been familiar with—it’s what Marius taught me! I Am The Master now with my excessive indulgence and my Boy and my sea side paradise.

But Armand is a Void™️ with no concept of self besides a collection of concepts and experiences and people he’s been exposed to throughout his existence, so rlly he’s kind of a fraud. Internally he’s still a saint who yearns for a God to follow, he’s no Marius, and this all comes to a head in Memnoch the devil when he throws himself into the sun for Jesus etc. and so TVA Armand is mixed the fuck up, he’s lost everything he’s been building for himself, he’s like an open wound, like red and gold sand art shaken around until it’s sludges of brown.

Armand believes himself to have no coherent narrative of a life, no coherent and consistent sense of self, just a collection of unrelated sequences that he draws from to occasionally preform personhood, and at the beginning of TVA he is very much just that. No thoughts only colors and pain. But he’s trying to rebuild himself as best he can, he has these young humans who he’s caring for, and through caring Armand finds meaning.

These humans are very much reflections of himself, or who he used to be, and seeing a personhood reflected back at him through these two gives him insight into his own value as an individual, as someone who is inherently worthy of having a life. So with Benji and Sybelle he tries to rebuild his own sense of personhood by giving them what he would want in there place. The conclusion he reaches at the end of his story to David is that after everything ultimately he is learning and rebuilding, gaining fulfillment and individuality he’s never had before through his empathy and care for these two people in his life. Benji and Sybelle are representative of Armand’s healing process!!! They mirror him bcus they are him!! He’s literally nurturing his inner child!! And with that there comes self care and self love etc etc. but then the book doesn’t end!!

Then after all that trauma and all that healing everything that Armand was tenderly attempting to build for his new life is stripped away ! When Marius turns Benji and Sybelle it doesn’t matttttter that they like being vampires. What matters is that when Armand finally gained agency and individuality Marius decided to take that from him! Marius decided that he actually knew better then Armand, and if Armand would just allow him to do what’s best for him then everything would be so much better and so much easier. And when Armand starts sobbing and screaming and fighting him that’s just justification to Marius that Armand isn’t capable of independence or self sufficiency, that he’s a child throwing a tantrum who can’t make his own decisions, that he should just be dependent on Marius like he used to be and trust that other people know what’s best for him.

That’s why it’s so tragic! That’s why it’s so frustrating and so sad. Armand was on the road to healing but then Marius stormed in like the symbolic representation of his past telling him that no matter what he does or the progress he makes he’s still Armand in the catacombs, Amadeo on the red sheets, Andrei waiting to be buried alive. So I don’t really give af if ultimately Benji and Sybelle are fine! It’s great that despite being a child vampire Benji is able to function independently and contently as an adult with minimal body dysmorphia and existential dread, but you know who’s not able to do that? Armand 😭😭

[leslutdepointedulac]

Did Nicki really love Lestat?

I feel like there's sometimes a question in this fandom as to whether or not Nicki truly loved Lestat, or if it was all a 'ruse' of sorts. Some people will say that there was no love there, either at points, or just overall. But personally, I'm inclined to disagree. The way I see it, Nicki did genuinely love Lestat, especially at the beginning of their relationship.

They knew each other as children and, to an extent, they grew up together. This already puts them in a relatively close relationship with each other. This relationship between them starts out as just a friendship, but of course this evolves into something more.

When Nicki presents Lestat with the cloak, it's him who is acting rather flirty towards Lestat, not the other way around with him leaning into him and saying

"Only the impossible can do the impossible."

A week later when they're in the room at the inn, Nicki is the one who leans in and initiates that first show of intimacy, by kissing Lestat. Granted they were drunk at the time, but Nicki doesn't give me the impression he goes around kissing just anyone, even while intoxicated. I think the fact that they were drunk was just the perfect excuse/opportunity for Nicki to act on his feelings towards Lestat.

Further down the line, when they're in Paris - and at this point have been together for several months - Lestat returns to the theatre after his 'disappearance'. One of the first things the other actors do when Lestat initially arrives, is call Nicki to tell him that Lestat is back. And once he turns up to join the others in greeting Lestat, the actors immediately part to make way for Nicki to come through. I think they all knew there was a deeper level of connection between them. They share a very long and tender moment together, which the troupe allows without disturbance. Personally, I see that hug between them as coming from a place of love, heartbreak that they had been separated, and relief that they're back together again. Yes, Nicki had previously been, and still was angry and hurt that Lestat had supposedly left him, and without any warning. Especially considering Lestat was - as far as everyone else was concerned - perfectly fine during that time, only for him to turn up out of the blue with little to no explanation as to his whereabouts. I think Nicki's anger at this was partially down to Nicki being terrified at the thought he had lost his lover, and he couldn't hold his upset in.

Skipping forward to Nicki's turning, in my opinion, his very recently experienced trauma, combined with his already fragile mental state, were both amped up x100 by said turning.

The way I see it, Nicki got overwhelmed by the recent events and his mental condition clouded his mind causing him to lash out at the one person who he loved the most. Lestat. The reasoning for him lashing out at Lestat specifically, being because he was so immensely hurt by Lestat's disappearance, with him returning acting as though nothing had happened. This understandably angered Nicki, and mixed with his strong feelings for Lestat, it all bubbled up and exploded in their faces.

I think Nicki said what he said to Lestat during their last proper interaction, because he was deeply hurt and quite frankly, he just wasn't well. I don't think he was seeing/thinking clearly, and was probably also confused by the very sudden and drastic changes in his life. This led to him taking it all out on Lestat out of a need to blame someone for everything that had happened. Lestat just so happened to be the easiest and most obvious target for Nicki to let his anger out on.

Eleni tells Lestat in her letters to him, that even the mention of his name in Nicki's presence is enough to send Nicki over the edge. But I think this was down to his mental instability, along with his lingering hurt that had festered in his mind for so many years at that point; he wasn't in his right mind and so wasn't able to give appropriate reactions to his former lover.

Before Nicki goes into the fire, he gives his violin to Eleni, with the instruction to send it to Lestat. He also says how he had originally intended to give it to him the last time they saw each other, before Lestat left Paris. In my opinion, I don't see why Nicki would've had his violin that Lestat bought him, sent to Lestat, right before taking his own life. And there is a chance that he did this with malicious intent, as a way to taunt Lestat, but in my mind, I feel as though there was some lingering care left for him. I don't know that there was any love remaining on Nicki's part, I'll be honest, but I do there was some semblance of care left in him. I don't think this is something Nicki would admit to anyone, even himself, and I also don't know that he was aware of this - that it was more of a subconscious feeling. But I still think, regardless, there was something still in Nicki that cared even just a little bit for Lestat, albeit buried beneath the darkness in his mind.

Re: Nicki's interest in the violin and his comment about wanting to 'go down' in Paris, I think his initial interest in the violin was genuine. But when people around him *cough his father cough* told him to abandon the idea, that's when it turned into a thing of spite. However, I do believe there was still an honest love for playing. Even after Nicki had gone mad, playing the violin was something he turned to as a source of familiar comfort through his dark times.

As for Paris, it was Nicki's idea in the first place for both him and Lestat to run off (although, yes, it was more of a joke when he said it.) But I think he genuinely wanted him and Lestat to get away from the village that had been suffocating them both for so many years. When Nicki said he wanted them to 'go down', I think that was also as a result of his unstable mind, and his hurt at the recent events being taken out on Lestat. There may very well have been elements of truth in what he said, but overall, I think it's just yet another example of his inability to contain his pain.

Of course, none of this excuses the way Nicki treated Lestat in the end, but I think to simply say it was all because he didn't love Lestat is missing out on taking a deeper look into the reasons why he did and said those things. To denounce the love Nicki felt for Lestat seems unfair to me given his situation.

[alwynwitch]

The toxic dynamic between Marius and his maker Teskhamen

Teskhamen wanted Marius to be kidnapped, raped into vampire existence and to save the vampire tribe/become the keeper of Akasha and Enkhil. Marius seems only to blame the druid priest Mael for this. Teskhamen seems fascinating and friendly to Marius, but I'm here to argue he is manipulative as well. I will analyze their reunion in Prince Lestat.

Marius thinks all those years (2000 years!!!) that Teskhamen is dead. His maker never let him know he actually survived the burning. Or offer any help with Those Who Must Be Kept. But then he approaches Marius. Why? Of course, you have the vampire crisis, Amel coming into consciousness and the changed structure of the Talamasca. But I think there is another layer: for the first time ever, Marius wants to sit this crisis out. He wants to hole up with Daniel (hunting together, watching movies) and wait till the storm is over.

But then his old maker is suddenly on his doorstep (again, after 2000 years of silence!!!). Because Teskhamen has chosen Marius for the task to carry the burden of vampire survival and he is here to remind Marius of his duty and the purpose he was made for. He does it with a lot of flattering and making sure no difficult questions are asked. Though soft-spoken and friendly, this creature is full of manipulation and bullshit.

This is how he approaches Marius:

"Marius," he said. "My beloved, my savior of long ago, my friend." "I know you?' asked Marius politely. Even as he clapsed the hand he divined nothing but what the agreeable and open face reflected: friendship. No danger.

During the conversation he is constantly flattering Marius, saying he is his savior, that he never had known a being like him, he compares him to the sum of sunshine on marble floors. Just friendly? Or a tactic to de-escalate the situation so Marius will not be angry with him? And, even more importantly, will do what he wants him to do?

Marius is deeply emotional which shows how much this meeting means to him (so why did Teskhamen not get into touch earlier?):

Something quickened in Marius, something he had not felt in a very long time. [...] But Marius was changed. Changed forever.

Teskhamen tells his story, which includes the founding of the Talamasca in 748. But the important questions are not asked. Why did Teskhamen never tell Marius he was still alive? Why did he not share his knowledge with him? Why didn't he check in with him to see how the task of taking care of Akasha and Enkhil was going? Why didn't he offer his help? See if Marius needed anything to carry the burden? Clearly, it would have meant a lot to Marius. (And remember how Marius abuses Armand in a similar way, letting him believe he was dead for centuries.)

Marius doesn't ask these questions. Instead, he seems to react exactly like Teskhamen is hoping for:

Marius shuddered. He had so hoped somehow this would all pass without his active acknowledgment, that somehow his time of holding the survival of the tribe in his hands was past. Had he not cared for the Mother and Father for two millennia? But he knew now he could not remain on the sidelines any longer.

No, Marius, you only cared for Akasha and Enkhil for 2000 years, of course it is not enough. The vampire Teskhamen choose you to carry the burden and you cannot suddenly step out, take a break or retire. This is why your maker has shown up now. Marius probably doesn't notice, because of his vanity, need to be in control and savior complex (that Teskhamen is exploiting skillfully).

But Marius realizes:

"And you're not one of us?" Marius asked. "You are not coming yourself?"

No, Marius, he is not coming. This is not an emotional reunion after which you two will fight the world together. He is here to remind you of your duty, the task he put you on 2000 years ago. Not to get involved himself. Especially Daniel is grilling him over this and see how Teskhamen responds:

"We ourselves made no decision." "Because you didn't have to," said Daniel. "Isn't that so?" Teskhamen shrugged. He made a little gesture of agreement with his hands. [...] "I don't know," said Teskhamen softly. [...] Teskhamen put up his hands again but this time defensively. "Daniel," he said gently. "I honestly do not know."

No, he doesn't know, he doesn't want to make difficult decisions, he is just here to make sure Marius will act and make the decisions for him and the whole vampire tribe. Then he pulls a last trick, telling Marius about the ghost of his old friend Raymond Gallant:

Marius was astonished. He was almost moved to tears. "Oh yes, Marius, you will see your beloved Raymond again, I assure you," said Teskhamen. [...] "But allow us our old caution, our old passivity, even now." "I understand," said Marius. "You want us to come together as a tribe, the very same thing that Benji wants. You want us to do the very best that we can in the face of this challenge - without your intervention."

Teskhamen uses emotional manipulation to get Marius in a soft spot to agree with everything he wants. Even though just before Teskhamen couldn't defend his position of passivity to Daniel. If Raymond means so much for Marius, why didn't he bring them into contact earlier? Why not right now? No, it seems like there is a condition for this meeting. Marius first has to play the savior once again.

"You're a splendid being, Marius," said Teskhamen.

Of course, Marius is a splendid being, a good soldier, who will once again carry out your wishes and take on the burden of vampire existence. This is the reason why you made him a vampire and you will make sure he stays on this path. While you can just watch and observe.

[apoptoses]

today i keep thinking about the line at the end of qotd where lestat is describing the other vampires at night island, and says 'daniel, who liked to let the hunger build'

and of course you can take lestat at his word, that daniel is into some kind of vampire hunger edging, but also part of me wonders if that isn't the vampire ND behavior (or whatever you feel he had going on) kicking in already. that he's too fascinated with talking to khayman and listening to music with his new senses to notice his hunger cues.

and maybe his 'madness' wasn't a sudden thing but an inherent part of him, something that actually existed when he was mortal and struggling to take care of himself and was actually exacerbated by his needs changing once he was turned. becoming a vampire can heal and enhance the body but i always wonder to what extent it magnifies what's already there in the mind. or is it a nature vs nuture thing- if you struggle with routine as a mortal, does it get worse when you become a vampire who no longer needs to eat on a fixed daily schedule, or to bathe or do any of the little routines society expects? was daniel's need for armand to shower him and shave him just an exhaustion thing, or was it part of who he was, and did vampirism magnify that trait and lead him to 'let the hunger build'? idk i just wonder about it!

[desertfangs]

I know people are disappointed the show doesn't seem to be doing Devil's Minion, but if you have not read Queen of the Damned and you're into Armand/Daniel, I highly recommend you give it a shot! It's such a great book in its entirety (and honestly, TVL is great, too). But even if you only read the Daniel chapters, it's truly an incredible story.

Devil's Minion is not just a love story. It is that, absolutely, but it is also the story of Armand reconnecting with his humanity after 500 years. Not just by loving a human, which he does, but in getting a chance to explore and learn who he is as a person on his own terms. He was ripped out of the mortal world young, and he was messed up by it before that.

In the Devil's Minion era, Armand experiments with clothes and what they mean. He experiments with music. He discovers a part of himself that he never really had the chance to discover, all with Daniel at his side. Daniel allows him to try any number of wild and impulsive things and, despite some exasperation along the way, loves Armand's curiosity and desire to discover things about the world and about himself. He gives Armand the space to learn who he is and who he wants to be. It's really neat, is all I'm saying.

[nalyra-dreaming]

to put all the cards on the table... (and now that we have that teaser... oooofff). i read the books, but i want to put my obsessive detail lover glasses on. anne is really nuanced in her writing, so yes i totally get lestat is not how louis described him (more or less 👀), but just in a vibey way. to make a specific list, what is that 20% that louis got wrong in your opinion?

That Louis got wrong? :)

Hmmm… So first off I do not think that what we saw of Lestat in that video (aka the rockstar persona) is how he looked when he was with Louis in NOLA.

Then again… Surprisingly close, isn't it?^^

So to get into this I need to explain my view of this a bit. Kidnap your ask, if you will^^

Louis describing Lestat: strands of hair down the sides of his face, unkempt a bit wild hair (at times at least). If his hair isn't done in some kind of fashion (opera, french pony tail etc)

I said it before, I think these strands down Lestat's face are indicative of Louis' POV (own) memories.

Which brings us to this small excursion on the subject. There's the evil step-mom bob, when Claudia comes in, and which is repeated outside in 1x05:

Hair lengths aside, we now know that Lestat was just as bloody as Louis from the trial revisit (see below), which was supposedly the truth, but in any case "no scratch on Lestat" has never made much sense. Meaning the force-feeding likely didn't happen either...

.... and the drop... well. Supposedly did. Even though he is quite clean again?

Because... that is still very far from what we (supposedly) saw as the "truth" of Lestat's bloody face in the coffin room just before, which we were shown at the trial:

I think the evil step-mom-clean-and-glorious-looking Lestat is Armand's tampered-with version.

Because... going through this because I think we got Louis' POV and actual memories of Lestat more in the beginning of season one.

There are a lot more instances of the "strands down his face"...

Btw, see this? Of what was used by Daniel to prove an "error" to the tale in 2x08? To prove Armand's manipulation?!

Right after the scene... he has them again:

Even Claudia's POV has them!

Even when she absolutely hates his guts:

I think every scene we saw with Lestat either in made up hair or with the strands down his face are ... "as real as it can get in a tale".

And the other scenes... the perfect blond hair ... is not.

Which brings us finally back to your actual question:

What is the 20% Louis got wrong?

And... I'm not sure Louis really got him that wrong?! I think Louis misunderstood some things, didn't know a lot of things, and Lestat fucked up others. They didn't talk enough. And sometimes love makes you desperate. They knew exactly how to wound the other.

And Armand... meddled with the tale. I said it before, the "train scene" cannot have happened as shown. The hotel likely neither.

I think every scene where Lestat is an "evil bitch with perfect hair.".. is a meddled with one. Given Armand's goal of influencing the tale? Namely making Lestat seem as bad as possible, while being unable to hide his own fascination with him? Makes perfect sense to me.^^

And there's actually not that many of them either. The outside of episode 5, the tractor salesman, the train, the paranoia driven one in 1x07 has strands again, while he does not have them the scene before and through a lot of the remaining last episode of the first season.

As such the little comment in 1x07, "the king's hair has betrayed the king".... takes on a third meaning, imho - not only a quip by Louis on both the "hair" on the floor and "heir" (Claudia)... but also that the "hair"... betrays the "king"... the leader - the coven master vampire meddling.

Layers, upon layers, upon layers.

So what did Louis get wrong?

Not that much actually, I think. But... some of the key scenes were not his. And those were therefore, in the sense of the words, wrong.

[paintaboveyourbones]

That time Marius had a prolonged depressive anxiety attack and changed a 12 year old also this is a pro-Marius blog

Thinking about that time, Armand suddenly showed up from the dead to visit Lestat when he was embracing his ✨ religious stupor aesthetic ✨ , and Marius proceeded to embarrass himself by following Armand around and inviting him back to his place to chill or whatever THREE GODDAMN TIMES IN A ROW and got shot down for all of them! Amazing!

Marius : Wanna come over? Armand : Lol no :)

it gets worse

Hahah like wanna come back to my place? No? Oh that’s cool. Listen my house is so cool here it’s all Roman and stuff, you’d love it if you saw it? Oh? You don’t want to see it right now? Oh, uh uh. Um, what if like, I promise to be a good listener and not interrupt? You could, you could stay for as long as you like! He's such a simp

And Armand is literally looking at his raggedy dusty clothes and kinda gives him a little pat on the hand and gives him his best “oh yeah, I’ll be by later! Totally!” And in the very next sentence, he’s thinking, “I gotta grab my kids and get the fuck out."

You think I'm exaggerating - how I only wish that were the case! It's so painful to see him suffer.

But beyond pain, the thing that I love about this is how much of a shock this is to both of them. Anne gives us all these excellent context clues that show us MARIUS HAS NOT BEEN OK! ALRIGHT - HE'S GOING THROUGH IT. Like, in my head, he's still trying to process what happened with Akasha - and part of that will inevitably go back to his own failure with Armand. And that failure is multifaceted and painful for him because he's been the cause of so much of it.

Obviously, there's all the stuff with Armand that directly echoes his failures with Pandora. I'm thinking specifically of him flying into a rage just because she mentions she saw the apostle Paul out preaching, and of course, there are the beginnings of the Roman coven. And then Christianity deals the death blow again when Armand falls into the cult. He has a proper pagan disdain for it, and I don't want to minimize the validity of his fear surrounding it and how religious trauma of all varieties has had a hand in shaping his neurosis.

Marius has always been so proud of his reason, but he's drawn again and again to these people who are more spiritual or untamed than he is. And part of this is his wanting to emotionally and intellectually dominate them. He wants so BADLY for someone to go, "Yes, Marius, you're right! Your superior Roman reason has shown me the way!". Because then he's validated as the superior Roman scholar for once, and not some half-breed Barbarian adopted into a proper Roman family by his father. But I can't help but think the other part is he's so attracted to their complete sense of comfort and acceptance of these illogical parts of themselves.

Like Pandora, Mael, and Armand are all so spiritual. And I know I've made the joke about him being the Reddit Atheist Guy falling for the Coexist bumper sticker girlies, but it's true! I'm not saying that any of them don't struggle with their faith or delight all the time in the sacrifices it asks of them, but they never question it as a part of themselves. And that's the thing - faith IS illogical. It requires us to take leaps we can't explain and carry on when there's no proof of reward or empirical evidence to give us peace of mind. And the fact that all three of them are ok with this just drives him FUCKING BUG NUTS. I also can't help but think some of this goes back to his Mommy Issues and how he works so hard to scrub his mother's barbarian identity from himself

And all that is there in Armand! And whatever might have happened is a wash, because obviously the coven comes and breaks them apart. But the funny thing is AKASHA also has a hand in it. At the time, Marius accepts it for what it was. But, in retrospect, after everything that happened? How fucking bitter is that pill to swallow that Armand became one of the things he had to give up, and all he got was a mouth full of ashes in reward.

And it's so clear they're both so hurt and awkward around one another! When we see them in Night Island, it's Santino Armand’s playing chess with - not Marius. It's no wonder that, of the two, he's the easier bridge to mend.

I can't help but think that, before Armand burned himself in the sun, Marius had convinced himself that he was still perfectly in control and ready to face what came next with stocism and rationality. Then Armand gets crisped up, and that's finally the catalyst for things to break apart.

It reminds me of this thing I was listening to recently about a pet bereavement therapist who mentioned that almost inevitably, when people talk about pet death, they talk about the death of a loved one that also hasn't been mourned or processed. And Marius does treat Armand like a pet - and Armand's death is the damn break for everything else that's happened with Akasha. Hence, we get Marius wearing rags, covered in dust, turning Benji and Sybelle. He's so painfully out of control - he's spiraling and returning to his old pattern of leaning on Armand and putting him back in that place where he's responsible for Marius' emotional well-being again. Only this time, he's not a fucking child (even though Marius greets him by calling him 'young one").

This entire time, he's softly rebuffing Marius, refusing to do the heavy lifting for him, he's finding his footing! My heart is beaming with pride because he's finally putting the pieces together! He's not Marius' emotional support pet anymore!

Hence why I think we get this line :

There's always this scary part when you're getting out of codependency where you realize the possibility of going back to old habits is always there. And that's tempting! Focusing on healing doesn't mean these things stop being temping - it just means you find better ways to work around that temptation.

And, of course, this just does not compute for Marius. And to be fair, that makes sense - historically Armand has always wanted to be a slave for something or someone. So seeing him come back from the fire, changed and changing, even if it's just shakey baby steps, has to be so devastating. Because, at this point, it's one more person outgrowing and changing beyond him. And everything that he's held onto at this point to justify his lack of change and growth has just been burnt to the ground.

So I can't help but wonder if his turning Benji and Sybelle is a desperation grab to try and re-establish the order of things because he's genuinely terrified that Armand might actually try and off himself again. He's gotten a glimpse of what a world without him looks like and he's not doing well in it. And hey - back when he was thinking of ending it all, didn't Akasha trick him into making Pandora? Hasn't Pandora been his anchor? What if he gave Armand an anchor. No need to go into wither or not Armand wants it or actually needs it. And all the better if their turning reinforces his own new belief in nothing. After all, this was the man who once imagined that he stood apart and above humanity like some loving patrician figure, but now everything he's dedicated himself to is gone. And rather admit he's having a depressive episode, it's so much easier to put the world to blame and say he's rescuing them from it.

He needs Armand - and whatever that means - if it means need like a little dog in an emotional support vest kinda need or if its I'm ready to build a human connection and need you romantically/paternally kind of need - Marius is not ready to have that conversation. So, instead, he puts his emotions into reverse and floods the engine backward in an attempt to put things back into a pattern he can recognize.

This is where it gets so painful to watch because he's at a point where just admitting he needs help, that it feels good to have someone else to rely on, would be so good for him! He doesn't need to fear change, and people evolving around him is a good thing. But he can't see it like that. So now we have this mess, only it backfires because Armand still grabs the kids and leaves. Just because trapping himself in old patterns fits Marius doesn't mean that others' needs have to regress to shape to his own. Once again, it's Marius who knows best, Marius' selfishness, his complete lack of self-awareness, getting in his way.

My man is his own greatest enemy.

[nothing-but-paisley]

Ways The Vampire Lestat is like an 18th century novel

slippage between "fact" and fiction. Early novels like Robinson Crusoe were often taken to be (and marketed as) true accounts since audiences were less familiar with long form narrative fiction. Lestat of course flips this concept on its head by publishing his life story as fiction.

Picaresque plot. Lestat is a lovable scamp who stumbles into a series of scrapes and episodic adventures, much like Daniel Defoe's Moll Flanders or Henry Fielding's Tom Jones.

Also like Moll Flanders and Tom Jones, Lestat engages in a smidge of incest (though in his case it's not an accidental oopsie).

Lestat is a sentimental hero, an 18th century Man of Feeling--his many, many tearful breakdowns recall a common motif of heroes crying at moments of realization/climax/emotional significance (lookin' at you, Young Werther).

Overall, it has a real sense of abundance about it, that "more is more" feeling you often find in novels of the period--particularly in works with a satirical bent like Sterne's Tristram Shandy and Voltaire's Candide, and even the vicious, pitch-black fictions of the Marquis de Sade with horrors layered upon horrors until the effect becomes comic. You just do not know wtf is gonna happen from one page to the next.

Of course, it also has a lot of gothic novel DNA in there. The eroticized horror of Matthew Lewis's The Monk comes to mind.

It has first-person narration, as was common for early novels, which were often epistolary. (Side note: how fun would it be if TVL was a series of increasingly unhinged letters to Louis?)

I'm sure I could think of a few more examples if I really dug into the ol' bookshelf lol. Lestat is a man of his time, and the way he presents his story reflects that in some interesting ways!

[kaelio]

2 pages later:

I think people have been misinterpreting this part. I don't think this was that Marius was yelling at Armand they're too nicey for mass killings now. Actually, I think this is more him pondering the Children of Satan.

That Marius only destroyed Children of Satan who managed to track him down, rather than seek them out and slaughter them wholesale, as Pandora suggested, cost him both Pandora and eventually Armand.

All joking aside, from Blood & Gold onward, Marius is far more proactive about potential threats.

[leslutdepointedulac]

Okay. I think enough time has passed. I'm ready to confront this.

I finished re-reading IWTV a few days ago now, and this paragraph fucked me up then, and continues to fuck me up now 🙃

Armand obviously knew what was going to happen. He knew that the theatre vampires were going to be coming for Claudia that very same night. He essentially warns Louis about what's to come.

"Louis, come with me tonight," he whispered suddenly, with an urgent inflection.

Armand is desperate to get Louis to go with him there and then, so that he doesn't get caught up in the theatre vampire's 'business', so to speak. It's got nothing to do with Louis, he doesn't need to be punished, as far as Armand's concerned.

When Louis rejects this, and says he can't go with him tonight, there's not really anything Armand can do, but to just accept that that's how it's going to be. He doesn't want Louis getting caught up in the situation, but he can't say anything more, unless he gives himself and his involvement away.

I watched him turn away and look at the dark night sky. He appeared to sigh, but I didn't hear it.

For only a moment I hesitated, mocked by the pounding of my heart.

It's as if, deep, deep down, Louis knows there's something wrong. He knows something's coming, and that whatever it is, it can't be any good. And I think he knows Armand has something to do with it.

But Louis' blinded by his love for Armand, and Armand's love for him. He's blinded by the possibilities Armand could give him, and any further knowledge he may have to share.

Louis doesn't want to face the truth. He's had one not so great experience in love before, and he's not willing to let that happen again, even if that just means being in denial about it. He so desperately wants to believe Armand has his best interests at heart, and that there's no possible chance that he could ever have any malicious intentions, let alone follow through with them.

He's clinging onto hope.

But ultimately, that delusional hope ends with Claudia dead, when Louis should've just listened to her warnings.

Of course, Louis isn't entirely responsible. Armand already had Louis, he didn't need to worry about Claudia anymore. Louis literally even says so himself. He tells Armand he already has him. And I know that's not the only reason for Claudia's death, there's so much more to it than that, but it was apart of it.

I think either way, Claudia was probably going to end up dead, but more could've been done to prevent it. But the blatently obvious warning signs were ignored, along with Armand's desperate need to have Louis.

[apoptoses]

🚨 what do you think is the best and worst thing Armand ever did?

Oh anon strap in, this is gonna get heavy.

Disclaimer: this is my personal read, my own meta, everyone else is entitled to their own takes etc etc

We're gonna start with the worst: everything he did with Louis in iwtv.

Let me explain.

Something that is very common for survivors of trauma that was more psychological in nature and required betraying oneself in order to stay safe is to enter the fawn response. Aka people pleasing. Someone who has learned that they have to pretend to be someone else in order to keep others around them happy and keep themselves safe doesn't just shake that when the threat has ended. They then go on to feel as if they must do that in all future relationships in order to be loved and cared for, and if this goes unchecked then it can manifest into some really damaging behavior.

Things like lying about personal beliefs in order to tell the desired companion what the traumatized person thinks they want to hear, trying to control outcomes of certain situations in order for things to happen that they think will keep the desired companion with them. Someone who is people pleasing ends up saying "Yes I love the thing that you love" to one person, while saying deep down (or to another person) "I actually hate this thing so much".

And while it's understandable why someone who is people pleasing believes they have to act that way, it leads to their companion feeling manipulated when they find out that all the things that were said and done to 'please' them were untrue or done simply to control the situation and keep them around.

(And if it gets really out of control, subconscious behavior can become conscious acts of manipulation)

So with Louis we meet an Armand who says that he cares nothing for god, that if he met a mortal who inspired a lust for life in him once again he would turn that mortal immediately, that he would have turned Madeline himself. As readers we find out this isn't true later, that Armand struggles with his faith, that Armand would rather suffer anything than turn someone else into a vampire. But if we look at his words from a perspective of someone in a fawn response, he's saying those things because he believes that's what Louis needs to hear in order to accept his love and love him back.

And in more overt ways he forces Louis' hand with Madeline by using his influence, because Armand has decided it would be 'good' for Louis to turn her, that this will help him accept the loss of Claudia and come be with him. It's an act of controlling the situation to try to control for Armand's desired outcome (Louis loves me and will leave Claudia behind for me) but he's doing it under the people pleasing lie of 'this is what Louis needs, this is what will make him happy' when really it's about what will make Armand happy and safe. In that act subconscious fawning has become conscious manipulation.

While Armand's emotional detachment and lack of reaction to the burning of the theater and death of Denis is in many ways related to his self-admitted inability to feel anything at that time, there's also an aspect of fawning there: in order to people please one cannot offer their real feelings for fear of upsetting the companion. So really it just leads this situation where Louis doesn't know how Armand really feels about anything. He never shows Louis a moment of hurt or anger or outage, which we readers know he is capable of, because in order to feel safe and continue to 'please' he cannot let himself feel anything at all except that which his companion feels.

And that's why their relationship crumbles, because Louis is right: they cannot offer each other real love because Louis is mired in grief and Armand is incapable of being fully honest. He can't cultivate a true sense of self and show Louis that self because he's too swept in fawning for him and 'pleasing' him. Even when he and Louis break up he doesn't show his hurt, doesn't articulate having felt neglected. He just walks away, holds it all in, and fawns away his own feelings.

So that's why I think the best thing he did was that moment of sincerity with Daniel right before he turned him: admitting that he felt like a coward, and that he loved Daniel far too much to let him die.

In his explorations with Daniel Armand stops pleasing and swings to far other end of the spectrum for a time: he is so utterly absorbed in exploring the world and figuring out who he is and how he fits in that at times he doesn't consider Daniel's feelings much at all. But by the end of things when the running begins, he doesn't chase Daniel until Daniel calls for him. He becomes honest about his feelings and desires, despite the layers of shame he's heaped upon them. He stops detaching and fawning and gets real.

Which in the end is the key to him re-uniting with Louis and building a healthier relationship, creating his own home, opening the door to future reconciliation with Marius and having Daniel move back in with him. Armand had to learn to be himself fearlessly so that he would have genuine love to give.

[desertfangs]

I've been saddened forever that Armand is so short and cruel with his statements about Daniel in his book, but rereading it now, I think maybe Armand is just not in a very charitable place about any of the others.

He's been through a big trauma, obviously, and Lestat is still comatose on the floor of the church. Seeing him is the only reason Armand is willing to endure proximity to any of his kind, and even then, he's annoyed by the immortals flitting about and coming to see Lestat and hold vigil for him.

The only person he seems to have kind words for are Marius--with whom he's entrusted the safety of his mortal children--and even then he doesn't want Marius' company. He says repeatedly he only wants the company of mortals at this time, and basically wants to be left alone. Now that he's seen Lestat for himself, he's ready to take the kids somewhere private and spend time with only them for a bit.

And then he says this about Louis, as he's talking about how strong a fledgling David is:

Count on Lestat to make the most lethal of monsters, that is, after his initial seductive blunders-Nicolas, Louis, Claudia-not a single one of the three able to take care of themselves alone, and two perished, and one lingering and perhaps the weakest vampire yet walking in the great world.

Louis who is, at this point, by Armand's own account, coming to check on Lestat regularly and then returning to the Rue Royale flat, presumably to make sure it's ready and comfortable for Lestat when he does awaken. Louis, whom Akasha called the most vicious killer among their kind!

Y'all I think Armand is just maybe in a mood. David Talbot is lucky he doesn't tear out his throat and leave him in a burning building when he presses him to tell his story, tbh.