#Zuko Critical

[zuko-always-lies]

I think we need to make a list of all the cruelest things Zuko does over the course of the series. Not the worst things he does but the cruelest and meanest. Just so we have something to reference when someone goes "look how mean Azula is, she's inherently evil."

[waywardbananawolf]

I know I'm overanalyzing things but the Kyoshi Warriors being in the Fire Nation as the fire lord's guard is one of the dumbest political suicides I've ever read. Really?

A paramilitary group from the earth kingdom and cultist of the Avatar Kyoshi can be seen as an attack on the sovereignty and ideology of the Fire Nation and a direct message from the Fire Lord to his nation in which he implies that the leader does not trust their people. and it hilariously makes the narrative have Zuko come to power thanks to a coup d'état sponsored by Foreigners, leaving him in a position of puppet of the avatar (which he is) and no real local support.

This is literally a powder keg for the armed uprising against Zuko and surely the resumption of political power by Azula.

[mal3vol3nt]

yall the venn diagram of zuko stans and people who are straight up delusional is a circle. tell me why i just saw someone on twitter (with a zuko pfp of course) claim that zuko is a more powerful bender than aang, and that the only thing that makes aang appear more powerful is the fact that he can bend all 4 elements………………… is it crack? is it crack that yall are smoking 😭

aang is a bending prodigy. he was eating up his competition long before his 12th birthday and long before he got stuck in the iceberg. zuko is a brat who was still learning the basics at 16 years old. only reason zuko doesn’t fucking die in the beginning of the series is because aang’s a pacifist let’s be for real

zuko can’t handle azula, his 14 year old little sister who, like aang, is a prodigy. her unfortunate slipping mental health was the only thing that made them equal in the finale and he still wasn’t beating her. meanwhile aang was fighting the canonically most powerful firebender in the series and won….. zuko stans please watch the show before speaking on avatar aang

[akiizayoi4869]

I really wanted to slap Zuko when he said this to Aang. Like dude, you do realize that the dead nation that you are making fun of is dead thanks to your family, right? The very same family who has profited from the deaths of the air nomads and countless others for a 100 years since the war started? Kindly shut the fuck up. He's lucky Aang didn't get pissed with him and decide to kick him out of the group. He would have been completely justified.

[princessmotif]

to me, zuko’s relationship with toph is so antagonistic on his behalf because she’s the one member of the gaang (outside of suki who he simply doesn’t consider to be in the gaang tbh) who he least empathizes with, at large and in relation to her trauma. the reason for this is that unlike aang’s, katara’s, and sokka’s traumas which he sympathizes with + connects his trauma to in various ways of arguable aptness, zuko is uncomfortable with the striking closeness of toph’s trauma to his because of how class and privilege factor into their both of their trauma. aang, katara, and sokka are not privileged in any real way, esp not one that reminds him at all of his situation re status and privilege.

zuko finds aang, katara, and sokka's trauma relatable on a level that makes him feel equally victim of the fire nation; that's why he draws lines between kya being murdered in an ongoing genocide to protect katara and ursa, who was certainly not anti imperialism from anything we've seen of her, disappearing to protect him from his abusive father and grandfather. both situations are unpleasant and involve maternal sacrifice, but one is a domestic ordeal while the other is an act of racial violence and genocide. the connection exists, but the context is radically different. still, zuko likes that he can draw those parallels between his trauma and katara's. it allows him more room to feel like a better victim and arguably a bigger one in the context of the war, despite the fact that his status means he did in many ways benefit from his family and country being the perpetrators of it and his own personal role in it throughout books 1, 2, and 3.

i will give the obligatory disclaimer that zuko is a child soldier and he does side with the oppressed in the end, but he himself is not oppressed by the fire nation's genocidal war as a fire nation prince, let alone when he is the fire nation crown prince. he is someone who directly benefited from this war. yes, his father was abusive, yes, he was exiled for 2 and a half years, but he was still afforded many privileges because of the war. that does not negate his domestic suffering or his political exile, but those privileges still came about because of the suffering of others, including the gaang.

this is a nuanced situation. it is extremely complex and hard to accept the simultaneous truths at play here, even for adults, let alone for an extremely traumatized, black and white thinking 16 year old boy. zuko needs to be a victim in the context of the war as well as his family to alleviate his guilt about his participation in it prior to joining the gaang. he needs to relate his trauma to theirs. i will say that he doesn't ever seem to attempt this with suki nor does she offer her trauma to him, but that's more about both the writers and zuko not caring much if at all for her as a person.

but toph receives clear rejection from zuko when she tries to relate to him. her attempts to endear herself to him and to open up to him are shot down. why? surely toph suffered because of the war too. she's from the earth kingdom. but she never suffered a personal loss that zuko respected or related to. toph is not given any dead relatives. she was abused but not in a way zuko would understand, and her abuse did not negate that she lived a relatively comfortable life for being in the earth kingdom during the war. she was rich, she was cared for, she was shielded by privilege in many ways. while zuko is of course far richer than toph, he doesn't want to confront that reality. he doesn't want her privilege to make his obvious. he needs to focus on his suffering, his abusive father, his struggling to fit in as heir, and his time in exile and poverty. he can't accept the idea of those struggles coexisting with his privilege, so he can't accept the idea of toph's either. she has to just be whining about nothing. she has to be a nuisance not to be taken seriously. otherwise, he has to turn and face things about himself he doesn't want to be true.

could he grow to care about her and face his own privilege in the future? sure. but he doesn't in canon.

[innocentimouto]

Some atla opinions that I feel like have been explained in old posts

Aang supported, respected, and comforted Katara throughout the series.

The first one to ever trust or help Zuko was Aang.

Everyone in the Gaang did chores, not just Katara.

Katara comforted many characters, not just Aang.

Appa should have been afraid of Zuko.

Sokka is not a good judge of character.

Sokka should have been the one to go with Katara to face Yon Rha.

Toph is bratty.

Toph didn't care about the war.

Haru showed a lot of hatred for the Fire Nation.

Hahn was a missed opportunity. And so was every ek kid.

Katara was the only normal one for not trusting Zuko.

There are more pros than cons in keeping Jet alive for the plot.

Jet was a great leader.

All the Freedom Fighters were fine with flooding the village.

Ty Lee can be cruel.

Mai was friends with Azula, willingly.

Suki deserved more development.

Jin should have gotten the chance to confront Zuko over Ba Sing Se.

Teo should have made plans with Sokka.

Hakoda should have praised Katara for her bending.

Hakoda should have been able to fight in the finale.

The White Lotus made a lot of characters look worse.

The only actions Zuko regretted were the ones against Iroh.

Zuko was fully prepared to capture Appa and use him as bait by any means necessary (ie firebending).

Iroh is a hypocrite.

Azula was abused.

Azula lost many times.

Bloodbending isn't evil.

Book 3 was rushed.

[coconutsaiyan]

I love Zuko but the fandom has a major problem infantilizing him

[phoukanamedpookie]

ATLA Fandom Stop Giving Other Characters' Superlative Attributes To Zuko Challenge 2k24

[herbluefire]

zuko visited azula after 1 year cause he needed her help finding ursa. tbh aang was the only one being genuinely nice to her in "the search"

[balanceoflightanddark]

A while back, I outed myself as a Zuko anti. Basically, I admitted that I was left unsatisfied with Zuko's arc and how the comics basically jettisoned any sympathy I had toward him. About how it left me in a pretty dark place emotionally in regards to both him and the franchise as a whole since I saw him as an unrepentant jackass who refused to change yet acted like he's one of the good guys.

And I'll admit, it was part of the reason I was so hesitant to write The Monsters We Create since despite my issues with him, the last thing I wanted to do was turn him into some kind of monster to be butchered. I felt that would be a disservice to both him and his fans. In fact one of the reasons I recently rewatched the series was to get a grip on my feelings towards him and maybe start building bridges.

Well while I can honestly say I'm still not a fan of Zuko...I think I have a better grasp on why.

Mainly, I felt that his arc was left incomplete.

I'm sorry, but Zuko did the exact same thing his father did by exploiting Azula at her worst. Sure his reasons were more understandable, but the Last Agni Kai shouldn't be something that he should be admired for. Especially since he got what he wanted since the first episode when he was a bad guy. It doesn't help that I felt a lot of his bad habits (entitlement, temper, and his toxic rivalry with Azula) were properly addressed. It's why I can't see his crowning as triumphant since the circumstances surrounding it made it feel unearned.

It made me feel that Zuko didn't truly change for the better no matter how hard the fandom or franchise tries to tell me. Something that was exaggerated in the comics which brought all of his flaws to bear yet we were still expected to sympathize with him even when he does stuff that threatens the era of peace he wanted for so long. That deep down, he was still the warmongering prince from Book 1.

Yet for some reason, we're still supposed to see him as a good guy. Which I think is the sticking point. Zuko doesn't put in meaningful change...so the franchise ironically thinks that he doesn't need to meaningfully change. His behavior is okay if he's one of the good guys.

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine that message being good for his character. Zuko can't break out of his awful militaristic upbringing, but apparently that's A-OK. That's not redemption, and that's not good for his character. Hell, it's a pretty awful message to send to anybody who grew up with a bad background or was raised in a militaristic society. They can't change for the better no matter what they do.

It's why I can't see Zuko as the golden standard for redemption arcs. Especially since the franchise and fandom are critical of those who ARE. Like apparently an inability to accept his "transformation" is being stubborn, when really it's seeing what his arc is in the grand scheme of things and not liking it.

What I want for Zuko, what I think anybody wants is for him to truly change. End the rivalry with Azula. Admit he was in the wrong. Do things his old self would never dream of. Actually live up to his own promises and become a wise leader that the Fire Nation needs. Instead, they left his arc hanging with all the nasty implications along with it.

[ilikepjo24]

Iroh: Why can't you just accept that he might be living a good, honest life?

Azula: Because I wanted that brother! I wanted the brother that gave me piggy back rides and played with me, instead of yelling at me all the time and telling be to buzz off. Why does Kiyi get that brother?

Iroh:...

Azula: If Zuko's changed, then that means he was always capable of changing. I just wasn't with changing for.

[zuko-always-lies]

The contrast between Zuko spending an entire episode basically demanding Katara forgive him and carefully plotting a scheme to get her to murder Yon Rha so she'd like him vs. him completely abandoning Mai, never showing the least desire to rescue her, and seeming completely to forget she exists even though she sacrificed herself to save him the previous episode.

[jet-apologistmybadhomies]

Yk i love zuko , but i think one Thing that his redemetion TRULY lacked in. Is making me believe that he STILL cares about his ppl, like he did when he was a kid.

I wish during the ember Island epsiode or any Where hes back in the fire Nation would have just seen him, see his ppl suffer and realzie that war harms even the "winning Nation" and truly makes the line "greatest Nation-- what a beautiful lie" work really well.

Like the GAANG had that arc, why couldnt have zuko had that?.

[akiizayoi4869]

I read this whole thing in Zuko's voice which just makes it even better

[icegoddessrukia]

You know, so much of the fandom bashes Katara harshly for one harsh comment she made in The Southern Raiders to Sokka, when she was highly upset about her mother's death and she felt Sokka was dismissive of her feelings (which he kind of was, to be honest) and they go on about how unfair it is that Sokka didn't get an apology. Meanwhile, I've never seen any fans complain about how Zuko literally says the most disrespectful thing about Aang's culture (the "this isn't air temple preschool" comment) when he's literally the prince of the imperial nation that wiped out Aang's entire culture in the first place. Aang is just supposed to let that slide and no one in the Gaang defends him either. He never gets an apology for his culture and religion being mocked by an imperialist. Zuko is two years older than Katara here and this is after he went through the Day of Black Sun development when he realized that the Fire Nation were horrible to the other nations. There's no excuse for Zuko being such an asshole to Aang but I guess because he's Zuko, he gets a free pass while Katara has to be bashed forever for saying something unfair when she was traumatized and no one was really listening to her.

[transformers0]

Look at this guy on Twitter saying that the other members of Team Avatar should have accepted Zuko as easily as Toph did.

Dude needs to learn that the real world does not work like that.

He's also even trying to say that Toph's attitude is fine and is justified by her parents' treatment of her.