#a body for chara a soul for flowey

[mythicaldemigoddess-of-deltarune]

Deltarune Theory: Kris Came From Undertale...And From Chara’s Grave, Then From The True Lab...

[Note: Reading This Post Is Optional.

Also Don’t Reblog Without Permission.]  

this is a theory, that Kris may have came from Undertale...

and they might of been from the Queen Toriel Timeline.

the same timeline, where I believe that Frisk doesn’t end up going out of the underground, but ends up being captured by Alphys and taken back to the true lab and placed behind a very large glass, the same one that we believe is a mirror, but it is really a prison cell, and the Frisk we are controlling when we reload and enter the True Pacifist a.k.a the Anomaly Timeline...

after we get Alphys and Undyne together, we end up going to the lab...

and then taking the elevator to the true lab, but I don’t think we start at the True Lab in the True Pacifist/Anomaly Timeline, we end up being transported back to the Queen Toriel Timeline...

and in one of the rooms, we find what appears to be a very large mirror...

but really it has the Frisk we leave behind, who at this moment....

doesn’t have a soul, but the one who is outside of their prison, the Frisk from the True Pacifist a.k.a The Anomaly Timeline, does have a soul....

when we Reset or Reload, we possibly leave behind a Frisk...

and the red soul that is the Player’s Proxy-Soul, ends up going back by itself without the original Frisk it had used as a vessel.

it might be possible that Flowey wasn’t the only Vessel Experiment...

Alphys may have found out that Toriel had took the body of the first human to fall to the underground, and she went to the ruins and stole the body...

she then took it to the true lab, and injected the lifeless body with determination and possibly mixed with some of the dust essence of the late prince.

 the human child was brought back to life, and it could be possible they were able to get out before, by going in the hole that is below the DT Extractor.

the hole might lead to the dark world, a world between many Alternate Universes....

at some point the human child ends up finding a way out of the dark world, and ends up in deltarune, and they end up being found by the counterparts of Toriel, Asgore and Asriel.

and for some reason, the human child had become a toddler when they had entered the dark world and even stayed that way when they found a way out.

they also ended up being adopted by the dreemurr family of the deltarune timeline...

Chara may have been something like, how Dark Alessa was to Alessa Gillespie from Silent Hill....or like seemingly so.

I mean there is that whole message we get if we try to name the Fallen Human “Frisk”, so if that doesn’t tell ya something is wrong there....it might give some clues as to who Frisk really is.

what appears to be a red heart in the generator, might really be a soul.    

and it might be Prince Asriel’s Human Sibling’s Original Soul, before being secretly taken to the true lab and being used to power the underground...

mean while sometime after Toriel puts their adopted human child to rest in the ruins and perverse their body by using magic bandages that keeps the body from aging....here comes Alphys many years later, who ends up digging them up and taking them back to the true lab, without Toriel knowing it...

 she then ends up bringing the body of the child back to life, by not only injecting them with determination but also magic.

this resulted in the body of the once dead child, to brought back to life without a soul, so in other words they were a soulless and what appeared to be a soul in them, was a red line with no filling in the middle, so it was like a heart-shaped hole....

in theory, they may have ran away from the Queen Toriel Timeline...

like as soon as Alphys open the glass door to put Frisk (who is now soulless, and who we leave behind and go to another Frisk in the Anomaly Timeline.) into the prison aka the containment...

the revived fallen human rushes out, and goes for the elevator, and Alphys is not able to stop them in time....

during this time, the Other Frisk is heading to the true lab after hanging out with both the Good-Alphys & Undyne, but then the elevator starts to act funny and they end up being transported to the Queen Toriel Timeline’s True Lab.

and we end up being able to going back to the True Pacifist/Anomaly Timeline,

when we go through the other elevator and go to the room where the generator is....the Alphys in Deltarune, might be a version of Alphys that left Undertale in one of the timelines...

at the same time the Frisk from the Anomaly Timeline falls into the Queen Toriel Timeline that we the Player left behind....

the elevator that would of taken the revived human child, ends up falling back down to the true lab, but not of the one they came from...

they end up getting switched with the Frisk from the Anomaly Timeline...

as soon as they end up in the Anomaly Timeline, they end up finding where the DT Extractor is and jumping into the hole after they hear someone coming...

they end up falling into the dark world, end up turning into a baby, and end up leaving the dark world but end up in deltarune instead and ends up being found by the counterparts of their former family from Undertale.

Chara is the Soul & Kris Is The Body, They Are Cleaved Halves Of Each Other Yet To Be Made Whole....which is a theory.                                                          

the Alphys that end up kidnapping Frisk and keeping them from leaving the underground in the Queen Toriel Timeline, might be the Alphys from the Hard Mode Timeline, where the fallen human is named Frisk.

in the Anomaly Timeline also known as The Pacifist Timeline...

Alphys is 100% good, but in the Queen Toriel Timeline, she stop being good and has become possibly, really selfish, even if Undyne who is in the friend zone and others who know her haven’t really notice the really bad change to her...

the Alphys that left her world to go live in Deltarune, might match to the same goodness as the Alphys from the True Pacifist/Anomaly Timeline.

Kris might have some suppress memories of their time in their original world that is Undertale, and even what Alphys from the Queen Toriel Timeline, tried to do to them and tried to make them become a vessel...

which they did escape from that fate, if only temporary until the Player’s Red Proxy-Soul ends up being placed in their body.

over time, before the player came along, Kris may have been able to grow a new Artificial Soul, one that was thankfully made from the magic and determination that was injected into their body a very long time ago before coming to the Deltarune World.

when Frisk and Kris are switched, one going to the Queen Toriel Timeline and the other going to the True Pacifist/Anomaly Timeline, they are possibly Timeline Jumping...

a timeline jumping could also happen when we reload, which after doing the whole Queen Toriel Timeline Ending, we never really had to Reset, because Flowey never said to do so, only to Reload from our last Save, which would be outside of the room where we have to fight King Asgore, we can choose to go in, but then tell him we have to go back...

and when we do, is when the call from Undyne is finally triggered and we didn’t have to Reset in order for it to finally happen. O_O

the Queen Toriel Timeline is a Pacifist Route,

the True Pacifist Route Is a Anomaly Timeline, where even though the Monsters are free, it is still a Anomaly Timeline.

 I still don’t plan to Reset the Undertale Save In The Offline Account, that has a Mii-Frisk, the first name I started with was of course Frisk in that one, and then named them Chara...

the Monsters in that save have been free since December 30, 2022...

and if I think about it, when it becomes December 30, 2023...

it would be the Anniversary of the day the Monsters got their Freedom and were able to leave the underground.

even if they are video game characters, I don’t plan on taking that freedom away from them in that Save File, it is staying as it is...

Frisk is also living with Toriel, so it be fun to picture them getting things ready to celebrate the first anniversary of monster’s being free, and Flowey could of at some point started to live with them....

and Flowey could of grown a few inches taller in 2023 or 202X...

it be interesting if their voice started to crack, wouldn’t be surprise if Sans found a way to joke and pun about that.

Frisk could of gotten taller as well, and could of became 13 years old.

maybe I will do a drawing about that idea sometime...

Flowey could be 14 years old and technically being a year older than Frisk.

Flowey might of never really been able to grow-up, ya know flower-wise...

but thanks to there not being repeated resets and there only been one only, that had involved the hard mode timeline where the fallen human was named Frisk....

Flowey was able to grow older, both flora physically and mentally.

if Sans ended up becoming his and Frisk’s Step-Dad, and if Sans open up the door to Flowey’s bedroom, I think he would throw one of the items that is in his room right at Sans while screaming “SANS, GET OUT OF MY ROOM!”

before using one of his vines to slam the door in Sans’s face...

and when this happens, Sans hears music playing inside of Flowey’s room.

the song would be “Bring Me To Life” by Evanescence.

Sans, your dealing with a teenage flower....XD

that would be interesting, anyway besides that weird and interesting idea.

not everyone has to agree the theory that Kris may have came from Undertale, and they may be Chara’s Body.

while it could be possible, because the whole possibility travel between undertale and deltarune could be possibly true...

but it’s okay that not everyone believes this theory to be true.

it’s okay if it’s just me and maybe a few others, and plus it’s okay if the Deltarune Game end up debunking the theory that Kris came from Undertale and was Chara’s Body brought back to life.

and it would mean that Chara’s Soul would be in Undertale,

while Chara’s Body is in Deltarune and was given the new name “Kris”...

it’s a weird theory, but I’m going to view it as fan headcanon and will wait for the day it gets debunked by the full canon of the Deltarune game.                                        

[howlsofbloodhounds]

The Killer species dysphoria is making me think a lot about the "your soul is becoming more like mine" line

Yeah! Gets even more interesting if you go with the idea how some characters in Undertale eventually start not seeing Frisk as human.

Saying things along the lines of, “Hahaha... you're not really human, are you? No... you're empty inside, just like me. In fact, you're Chara, right?”

“My brother would really like to see a human. So it would really help me out... if you kept pretending to be one.”

“The way you shamble about from place to place...”

“Human... no, WHATEVER you are. For the sake of everyone's hopes and dreams... I, UNDYNE, will STRIKE YOU DOWN!”

“What kind of monster are you? Sorry, I cannot tell.”

I’d imagine Killer heard many things similar to these things during his and Chara’s Genocides, although more along the lines of no longer being a monster and not being Sans. And perhaps this is something Chara reinforced.

And considering how Stage 2 was said to exist in the state that it does precisely because Sans is fighting back against Determination, that makes it neither human nor monster. Stage 4 was described as “Chara wins, feels nothing.”

And during the Stage 4 comic, the Chara in Killer’s head commented that Stage 4 was “getting worse.”

Perhaps Stage 4 is exactly what Chara meant when they said Sans’ soul was becoming like theirs—something not monster anymore, not human either, the way they are no longer human.

The way they’re apparently the demon that comes when you call its name. However, Sans’ soul was fighting back—creating Stage 2; who certainly is like Something New Chara in terms of mindset, behavior, and a bit of personality (also said to be similar to Flowey as well.) Rahafwabas did describe Killer’s soul as a war between two souls— a monster soul, and a Determination soul.

I’d imagine this really does fuck with Killer a lot; especially when his body doesn’t match up with his identity, and his self perception. Could very easily lead to a lot of species dysphoria. A lot of, “What am I?”

{ @justanidiotartist }

[carlyraejepsans]

I don't get people who narrow Chara down to Good OR Bad when its such a shallow reading of the story? They do some objectively bad things (taking their body to bait the humans, taking their own life, destroying the world) but when you zoom out it all stems from a traumatised child with little grasp on consequences until they've already awoke from their own tomb (Flowey matches this pattern aswell yet nobody makes groups calling him Good OR Bad??. A child that was hurt by the world, doubling down on the idea of consequences and becoming more detached via LV until them and You are so linked that they give themself a purpose from your own actions. And even in Pacifist, you could argue that they are showing you their memories of Asriel, providing the needed context to save their brother (and with it, all of monsterkind).

Kind of rambling but I just feel like simplifying a character down to being a Good person or a Bad person with no in-between is both stupid and against the point of the game (see Asgore, Alphys, Flowey, maybe even Toriel or Undyne).

agree with what you said, except people 100% do this same stupid discourse with flowey (as well as most of the female characters, like toriel and alphys). you can say everything, but at least you can't say they're not consistent.

interesting point, seeing them carrying their own body as bait! i hadn't considered that perspective before. i mostly interpreted their death wish as a way to hide the plan from asgore and toriel and give asriel an excuse to cross the barrier without raising suspicion. but it could very well be both.

another reading i like is that they sold the plan to asriel by using the same reasoning toriel uses to call asgore's bullshit in true pacifist, ie "we go out, we get 6 souls peacefully, we become strong and free everyone", because 1) that's yet another similarity they have with toriel, 2) i'm not 100% asriel would've been Down To Murder at that point in his life, as attached to chara as he was. i always assumed that they KNEW the humans would attack in any case, giving them a reason to also react with violence, but i never considered the why. just chalked it up to hate sentiments towards monsters and chara being convinced that humanity was irredeemable. thank you for the new idea!!

[lilybug-02]

Just realised the CT Wierd Route sets up a kinda depressing but interesting scenario. Chara is dead (by their own volition), and Asriel likely would have to leave QC's with their body (parallels). I can see Asriel getting a *kinda* similar arc to Flowey after this, alongside maybe Kris becoming pretty jaded. After all, the price for their freedom was a human soul. Snowgrave is stopped, but Berdly never gets better, Noelle and Kris are still scared of each other, the class still feels a little emptier each day. And, when they graduate and prepare to move for Uni or apprenticeships, the class photo just seems like someone is missing.

Damn, that is one hell of a hard pill to swallow. THE PARALLELS THOUGH.

Chara was really hoping you'd leave on your own accord, but when you didn't... their soul just couldn't handle it and it shattered :(. And the parallel of Asriel having to carry out Chara- gosh dang thats so sad. He'd probably spiral into himself after having yet another one of his friends die (Dess and Chara), feeling it was his fault again. And Kris would have to live with the guilt of knowing they inadvertently killed Asriel's friend and the one person to know what they were going through.

And Frisk...they got the news the day after.

[stainedglassthreads]

Knight Alphys Master Theory

I acknowledge the popularity of and evidence for Knight Alvin and Knight Papyrus. But let's put them aside for a few moments.

Full lengthy of the theory will be kept below the cut, as it gets quite long, but have a quick banner.

The True and Neo Chaos

Let's begin with something interesting. There have been a couple of words showing themselves as fairly prominent amongst the Secret Bosses, that people have picked up on: those words being Neo and Chaos. Jevil references both, with his endlessly spouting about Chaos, and his including 'Neo' into a few of his attack names. Spamton also refers to his new body as 'Neo'. But the secret bosses are not the only area in the Dark World where these things are mentioned.

Spade King is, so far, the most ardent supporter of the Knight, and is incredibly excited by the concept of spreading darkness across the Light World. His battle theme is entitled 'Chaos King'. Queen also gets in on the fun--she talks a lot about a Neo Fountain, and explains how Determination, a trait found in all Lightners, is a vital component in the creation of both a Dark Fountain and a Neo Dark Fountain.

So, with King being the only one confirmed to have met, spoken with, and even received help from the Knight, and Queen having witnessed them make a fountain, it seems 'Chaos' and 'Neo' might be very important terms where the Knight is concerned, and that the Knight will also be linked with Determination.

You know who's linked with all three of these things in Undertale? Alphys.

"But Glass!" my hypothetical audience says in confusion. "That makes no sense! Alphys did the DT experiments, sure, but she's hardly particularly determined. And concepts of 'Neo' and 'Chaos' don't come up in Undertale at all, let alone in connection with Alphys of all people! Really if anyone was dt-connected and likely to show up in Deltarune, wouldn't it be Sans or Chara--"

Au contraire, dearest darling readers! As we all know, the term 'Neo' does show up once in Undertale, with a very blatant connection to Alphys!

As we all know, Mettaton Neo is Mettaton's original body, created by Alphys to allegedly be a human eradication robot, which the ghost Mettaton inhabits and fuses with. It's meant to be his 'ideal body', even if he doesn't really want to kill humans.

However, Mettaton Neo has links with a few other monsters, besides Alphys... Who also have interesting links with Alphys.

Now, if you'll notice, all three of these monsters have some interesting similarities.

All three have a normal form, and a significantly more powerful form you fight under special circumstances. Undyne, Mettaton, and Flowey all talk about protecting or killing both humans and monsters--and both Undyne and Flowey(before the Photoshop Flowey boss fight) use the words 'Humans. Monsters. Everyone,' before their respective fights. Undyne feels the powers of 'everyone's hearts beating as one,' and Asriel mentions something similar before using everyone's souls to break the Barrier.

Those are some similarities in terms of circumstances. But they also have a lot of similarities in terms of appearance. All have a prominent heart icon in their chest, huge shoulder spikes, and inverted sclera. Undyne and Mettaton very prominently have something weird going on with one eye. Mettaton and Asriel have very big and flashing wings, while Undyne and Asriel have big white gloves with more heart markings.

These three also have another, more subtle connection: all of them are connected to Alphys in some way, be it major or minor.

Mettaton Neo's body was built by Alphys. Undyne convinced Alphys not to commit suicide, and thought Alphys has many crushes, she's the crush who needs to reciprocate Alphys' feelings for Frisk to learn more about the Amalgamates, Flowey, and the Tapes, opening the way for Flowey's master plan and the True Pacifist Ending. And of course, Asriel was revived by Alphys, and she's the only one who realizes how bad things are about to get when Papyrus mentions a 'little flower' told him to gather everyone.

Wrapping this all up, while Mettaton's name in this form mentions Neo (with his theme also mentioning it), and Undyne and Asriel are blatantly linked to Determination, Asriel also has a very interesting hint at things: a number of his attacks use the word 'chaos' in their names. Notably Chaos Saber and Chaos Buster. He also has a strong connection to 'Hopes and Dreams', which both are mentioned occasionally in Deltarune, where the unique item 'Last Dream' is mentioned as being 'The goal of Determination'--and Gerson's memorial bench in Deltarune, as well as Alvin's dialogue, implies a connection between dreams and stories, which are also linked to darkness and dark worlds...

So, we have a big, nebulous connection between Neo, 'everyone's hearts beating as one', Chaos, Dreams, Darkness, stories, Determination, and maybe Alphys. What about it? What makes you so sure this really does make Alphys the Knight?

Oh, sweet reader. I'm nowhere near done yet.

Alternate Universes

Hey, you know who the only character in Undertale to canonically mention alternate universes is?

"Don't be silly, Glass, it's only the most popular theory for the person who interrupts the Goner Survey--Chara!"

Nope! Well, maybe. It's not impossible, but I'm not sure that that was really intended to be the reading of that line. Chara in concerned with efficiency, and there is no efficiency in doing the same thing over and over and over. Chara's Post-No Mercy monologue is a mirror of Flowey's Post-Pacifist monologue. In my opinion, Chara's 'let us erase this pointless world and move on to the next' is their equivalent to Flowey's 'let Frisk live their life' and Asriel's 'don't you have anything better to do?' Many take this line as meaning you should move on to a new timeline or to Deltarune, but I take it as you should play another game. ANY game.

But curiously, one person who specifically talks about alternate UNIVERSES, and not just 'other timelines' like Sans, is quite often overlooked.

Sans has done research on timelines, but has very little concrete information about them, to the point he mistakenly attributes Flowey's resets to a murderous Frisk. He also may or may not be from a different universe, but has yet to outright confirm this. Alphys has, allegedly, done actual research on Alternate Universes, and feels confident in asserting that they exist, and daydreaming that someone in one of them watches over her, and is cute and interesting, and she has a crush on this person.

Alphys can be just as meta as Flowey and Sans when the proper opportunity presents itself.

Gerson and Gaster

Gerson and Gaster have a bizarre relationship, which I won't get into right now. Suffice to say, though, people have certainly picked up that Gerson sort of fills UT Gaster's 'role' in Deltarune, being a recently passed away and highly admired mentor figure, who leaves big shoes for Alphys to fill.

Yes, Alphys, specifically. In Undertale, Alphys is noted as someone Asgore hired to replace Gaster, and one Gaster Follower notes that she has 'big shoes to fill'. It is also wondered if Alphys will meet the same fate as Gaster. Meanwhile, mirroring this, in Deltarune, Toriel recommends Alphys to replace Gerson as a teacher, and she still seems pretty anxious about living up to Toriel's expectations, going so far as to lie about how 'normal' Kris is doing in class. (While Kris silently stares at Alphys, a trash sphere perched upon their head.)

This point of Alphys in Deltarune being a teacher leads perfectly into...

Alphys Frequents Where the Knight Has Been

One of the biggest arguments against Kris being the Knight is focusing heavily on timelines, and how unlikely it is Kris would be able to be at the Library to create a Dark Fountain at the proper time, as it's implied that Noelle and Berdly had their books and notes out on a desk when the Dark Fountain was created, rather than them walking into a pre-existing Dark Fountain. @vgfm's wonderful Knight Alvin theory also relies somewhat on Alvin theoretically being familiar with both the School and the Library, due to his father previously working at the school(and himself possibly attending as a child) and Berdly mentioning a 'Ms Boom' working at the library.

But there's someone who we know, without a shadow of a doubt, certainly frequents BOTH these places. Alphys.

For the school...of COURSE Alphys can roam around the school without any suspicion! She's a teacher! It's even likely that she's the one who locked the door on Kris and Susie, back in Chapter 1. It would be trivial for her to tell the class that Susie and Kris have been gone an awful long time and that she's going to go check on them, only to panic and lock the door on them later, and tell the class she couldn't find them. It's also known that she regulars visits the Library, as a review of MMKC II all but stated to be left by her can be found and read. Additionally, Alphys is also the very first to mention the internet outage...

Interestingly, that review is something that gets analyzed a lot, too. Some think MMKC I is meant to represent Undertale and MMKC II is meant to represent Deltarune. Some think it represents Frisk and Kris, respectively, or even UT Papyrus and DR Papyrus.

Personally, I wonder if Deltarune Alphys preferring much darker and more complicated fiction is reflected by her being a darker and more antagonistic fiction in this game, rather than an ultimately mislead scientist who made a mistake, but learns to improve herself with the support of her friends...

Dr. Andonuts...?

One of Toby Fox's earliest games, as some of us know, is the Earthbound Halloween Hack. It is effectively a 'bad ending' of the game Earthbound, which heavily inspired Undertale later on. It explores some similar themes as his other games, albeit in a more clumsy and edgy way, because he was much younger when he made it. @under-lore has also made some interesting analyses regarding how Halloween Hack and Deltarune's alternative routes are handled, and what this might mean for Deltarune having only 'one ending'. It's got a few other similarities, too: like how much its protagonist, Varik, looks like an earlier version of Kris with a different color palette.

Knight in a modern setting, shadowed eyes, neutral expression...hm.

Oh, I've talked a little about Halloween Hack and Deltarune, but I haven't told you what Halloween Hack's actually ABOUT, have you? Well, it's pretty interesting. So, in the original Earthbound game, the character Dr Andonuts, who is a short and eccentric scientist type with an estranged relationship with his son, puts the hero, his son, and their friends into robot bodies so they can go to a different planet to defeat the big bad, at the cost of never being able to return, right? And in the original story, a miracle happens and they do somehow return home?

Well, in the Halloween Hack, that doesn't actually happen. Tormented with grief at having effectively killed his son and said son's friends, Dr Andonuts locks himself away in his lab, and Varik is sent to go find him, accidentally learning about his past and secrets on the way, and as he does Varik realizes that Andonuts is a heavily closeted queer man who struggled to suppress that side of himself--hey wait a second, why does this sound so much like a character Toby's written...more...recently... In a game that isn't Deltarune...

Speculation

So, I've done my best to bring up and organize a lot of evidence for Alphys being the Knight, both in terms of things actually present in UTDR, and in terms of parallels to other games Toby's worked on. In this section, I'm going to talk a little about my own feelings regarding this twist, how great I think it could be, and what it means for me.

Alphys and Toriel are, in my opinion, the two most overlooked characters in all of Undertale. While the lion's share of the attention goes to Sans, a lot of attention is devoted to Gaster, Papyrus, and sometimes Undyne, Grillby, and Muffet too. Not only do Toriel and Alphys often get overlooked, it feels like everyone significantly downplays Alphys' achievements, too. This video by @megaderping goes into a lot of detail about the ways Alphys is overlooked, and the really interesting facets about her character.

First of all, I think it would be really cool if Alphys' character were brought into the spotlight in this way. I think her being the Knight also explore and expands upon important facets of her character initially introduced in her Undertale appearance, where she indulges in escapism by pretending to be a human's ally, and ends up projecting onto Frisk.

Second of all, I just...feel like there so much potential for really touching scenes between her and Kris?

I don't think the secret bosses are the way they are because they met the Knight. But they do have a recurring theme everyone has caught onto by now: all of them are trash. All are based on items often discarded. First a Joker Card, which is rarely used in play. Next Spam Email, which is universally disliked and never read. And Mike is commonly thought to be a Microphone, possibly using a pun based off 'video killed the radio star'. I've also theorized that Roulxs Kaard, based off a Rules Card, might disappear halfway through Deltarune to become a Secret Boss in a future Dark World.

Alphys has something in common with these Secret Bosses. She thinks she's trash. And Kris also seems to a very low sense of self-esteem too. Spamton projects heavily onto them, and Kris is more shaken by watching Spamton's defeat than anything else. Several players have likened Kris removing their soul as feeling like an analogy to self-harm, it's been theorized that Kris is depressed and suffers dysphoria, and while Kris being an enemy we fight in some route in a popular theory, personally I feel that such a fight coming to pass will mean Kris is making a suicide attempt. Furthermore, Kris has formed an incredibly strong bond with a brash and excitable rulebreaker--much like the bond formed between Alphys and Undyne.

I just think there's a lot of really sweet potential for a future scene. One where, instead of the Knight being a villain Kris needs to kill, as in a classical fairy tale...the Knight sees herself reflected in Kris, and chooses to stop. Chooses to instead talk to Kris about how hard it all is. About how sometimes you feel like trash, and just want to throw yourself away. About how you're always living in some genius', some mentor's, some golden child's shadow. And you love them, and you miss them so much, but you can never be anyone else, aside from who you are in relation to them. About not feeling comfortable in your own body, about feeling awful and needing to watch as people grieve and you KNOW what happened to their lost loved one, but if you tell the truth you have to fear they'd hate you.

I just. Have a lot of feelings about Alphys and Kris bonding and helping each other. About two Knights seeing themselves reflected in the other. We don't have that with Alvin. We don't know enough about Papyrus to know if we'll have it with him. We sure as hell can't get that with Kris being the singular Knight.

So, what's up with Castle Town Fountain?

Okay, I lied. I also believe in Knight Alvin.

Specifically, I believe that Alvin will be a red herring, and it will later be revealed that he was the one who (possibly using his father's hammer) opened the Castle Town Fountain.

Fountains reflect the will of their creator. And the difference between Castle Town and every other fountain(as reflected in the difference between Ralsei and every other Darkner) makes me think that Castle Town Fountain either appeared naturally, or was created by a third Knight: Father Alvin.

It's not just the fact that he's related to Gerson that makes me think Father Alvin created the Castle Town Fountain, specifically. I feel I actually also have some small, but interesting, pieces of proof that Ralsei might be, instead of 'Kris' idealized self' or 'Kris' monstersona' or 'Kris' idealized vision of Asriel'... Father Alvin's idealized vision of Asriel.

Think about how Alvin has talked about Asriel:

-Father Alvin mentions Asriel was in the choir. Ralsei prominently sings lullabies to put enemies to sleep.

-We also know his view of Asriel is incredibly kind, sweet, naive, and is at times driven by guilt. Possibly something of a pushover. He imparts an anecdote where Asriel confessed something mean he had done in a video game out of curiosity, and confessed for Kris when they repeated the act to troll him...despite Father Alvin saying their religion has no concept of sin.

-Likewise, Ralsei is incredibly kind and sweet, perhaps to the point of naivety. He's so intent on pleasing Kris and doing as they say that he actually apologizes when Susie forces him to learn R-Actions, and has an incredibly powerful sense of right and wrong, repeatedly encouraging Kris to be kind and pacify enemies, even if he won't stop them from attacking Darkners.

It's not much evidence, but I do think Father Alvin being Ralsei's creator has some small potential.

Conclusion

I hope this theory has been, if nothing else, entertaining to read! I don't fault anyone else for still sticking with Alvin or Papyrus as Knight Candidates, I would honestly be happy to see either theory confirmed, and even if Alphys turns out to be the Knight, I'd love to see both given larger roles later on. But I'd like to throw some female candidates for Knight into the ring--and while Mayor Holiday and Dess have both been speculated, we just know so little about each of them right now. And as I said, I think Alphys is perfectly primed to further expand and explore themes Deltarune is already exploring a lot.

I would really love to see more discussion, and perhaps even fanart, based around Knight Alphys, though! Whether or not in turns out to be correct, I think it really adds to some overlooked aspects of Deltarune, such as the powers of Neo and Chaos, and perhaps Alphys' connection to Asriel!

[inbarfink]

Flowey is meant, I think, to be a sort of a representation of the Player. He has just slightly less Determination than we do and he was filling up that exact same role before Frisk fell into the Underground. He was the one with the power of RESETs and SAVEs before we came along, so he was basically playing his own ‘prequel’ to Undertale over and over

First aiming at getting a 'good ending' -

But since he was unable to see anyone else in the Underground as a real person (what seems to be some sort of combination of the lack of a SOUL, being unable to process his Massive Amount of Trauma and the repeated time-loops allowing him to notice the repetitiveness and limitations of everyone’s reactions) he started moving into choosing crueler and cruller options.

Despite his affinity toward sadistic gloating, it is important to note that Flowey’s main motivation is actually boredom. Although he will only open up about it to Chara, the real reason why he’s out to harness the power of the Human SOULs and destroy everyone - essentially his equivalent to a Murder Route - is because destroying the world is the one last thing he hasn't done yet. The one option he hadn't seen yet.

Which mirrors the mindset of many who start on the Murder Route, as Sans himself points out.

Important to note here is that despite Flowey talking about how he ‘killed everyone’, he never actually completed his ‘Murder Runs’. Like both in the sense that he never got to destroy the Entire Universe like the Player does at the end of a Murder Route and Flowey tries to in the Neutral Ending, and in the sense that the reason why he couldn’t is because he never got his vines on the Human SOULs before the events of the game. So there must’ve always been someone that stopped him before he got there. The implication is that it was usually either Asgore -

Or Sans, as usual playing the role of a Murder Route final boss -

The fact he could never beat them might have something to do with his plant body being weaker than the Player’s Human body or whatever - but I think it is probably mainly a matter of Determination. Again, he is slightly less Determined than the Player is - so he would logically be slightly more prone to quitting. Flowey is basically equivalent to a Player who has done everything in Undertale but never actually completed the Murder Route cause he rage-quitted at the Sans Battle.

His relationship to Papyrus can also be a mirror to the Player’s. Since Papyrus is the one character who is always willing to befriend the Player no matter the circumstance. In the more dusty Neutral Runs he is characterized as being in the dark (or in denial) about how terrible his ‘friend’ actually is…

And that is basically also the relationship he has with Flowey in the current timeline. Papyrus is the only one who thinks of Flowey as a friend (and, well, the only one to know he EXISTS in this timeline), but he is totally in the dark (or perhaps willfully ignorant) to this ‘friend’ and his true nature.

Meanwhile, Flowey's behavior once he regains his Asriel form in the Pacifist Route mirrors the behavior of a Player who is replaying the Pacifist Route. He became so attached to the Player that he refuses to let the ‘game’ end.

Instead resorting to a plan to reset time and the Player’s memories over and over again, with the Player doing the exact same things again and again -

Just so Flowey won’t have to say goodbye.

That is basically the mindset behind replaying the Pacifist Route after already achieving everyone’s Happy Ending. Within the fiction of the game, you’re ripping them all away from their happy ending, resetting all of their progress - just because you have a hard time moving on from the game, just because you want another chance to play with them.

And the Route ends with the suggestion of a possibility that Flowey might be able to redeem himself and start caring about others again.

Just as a Player might be able to prove a genuine care to the characters on an in-universe level by being able to resist the temptations of the True Reset.

But they also might not…

Flowey is a third-person-POV demonstration to the Player of how a Player-like entity would be like in a video game world. An immortal time god who knows everything about everyone even while no one really knows them. Someone who has experienced every single reaction anyone could have to anything until they have become unable to see others as anything but predictable lines of code. Someone who prioritizes their own sentimentalities for others over these others’ actual desires. Someone who will destroy the entire world just because it’s something they haven’t done yet.

And I think Asriel, as part of this metaphor, is a demonstration of how this concept of the Player as an Amoral Time God within the fiction of the game does not necessarily translate into a condemnation of the actual real-world morals of the actual person playing the game.

Because Asriel and Flowey are the same person. The difference is that Flowey had Consequences-Free Time God Powers and an (supposed?) inability to care about others in the Underground as real people. In other words, Asriel is the self that interacts with the world as the real world - and Flowey is the self that interacts with the world as a Player in a Game. So while Flowey might be a mirror of the Player, Asriel might be closer to who we are in the real world.

And also…

I wonder if the scene where you have a chance to forgive or not forgive Asriel for what he has done as Flowey is also meant as a chance for the Player to self-reflect and forgive or not forgive themselves for the things they did before that True Pacifist Run. You know, whatever characters you might have accidentally or not-so-accidently killed in previous runs, whatever decisions you regret, whatever previous True Resets you might have done… If you believe Asriel can be forgiven (and most players do) for his actions - because he feels genuine remorse and he’s trying to do better now, then the Player can also forgive themself.

Well, outside of one little thing… There is one bad deed the game won’t ‘forgive’ you for. And it is the one thing that the Player can do and Flowey never could…

Finish a Murder Route.

[promise-keeper-papyrus]

UT AU, where Asgore succeeded in getting all 7 human souls, broke the barrier and declared war on humanity...

However, a few moments after the soul-powered king began his rampage on the nearest human city, the souls escaped his body and attacked him until he was on the brink of death...

The souls leave and the city humans finish him off, then the humans begin to destroy or capture the rest of Asgore's kingdom in revenge...

The surviving monsters either fled to the forest to hide or stayed in the Ruins with a depressed Toriel...

Asgore is dead and Toriel stays in the Ruins comsumed by depression over his death and the destruction of their kingdom.

Most of the Ruins Monsters have no idea what's going on.

Undyne is the new leader of what's left of the kingdom... She hates humans more than ever, wishing to make them go extinct... She became a colder, more serious person (like how she is when she's wearing her helmet, only it's all the time now).

Alphys was overwhelmed with the grief and guilt of losing so many people as well as being hurt by the hatred the family members of the amalgamates are giving her... You see, Alphys left the amalgamates in the lab when the war began and the amalgamates got captured by humans, so the family members are less forgiving of Alphys when she tells the truth... In her pain, Alphys creates a special potion that takes her ability to feel emotions away so Alphys can focus on helping Undyne, making her even colder than Undyne.

Mettaton is a shell of his former self... He's constantly nervous and he's horrified by all the messed-up things that are happening, but he's too scared to actually do anything about it... After Napstablook got captured and he lost his TV Show Fame, Mettaton basically became the new Alphys and he isn't as vengeful against the humans as most monsters are.

Papyrus tries his best to stay hopeful, but he became kinda depressed after Sans' death by human hands... He wants to prove to Undyne that he can kill a human like her... But instead he befriends one named Frisk.

Monster Kid is staying hopeful like Papyrus, but he's not as depressed, since his whole family is still alive and also not captured.

Napstablook and Mad Dummy were both captured by humans.

Muffet and most of the spiders were captured by humans, but a only a few small ones managed to escape.

Grillby is one of the guardians of the Monsters' Hiding Place in the forest.

Jerry was captured by the humans and he's ironically the only monster that managed to escape on his own, much to everyone's disbelief.

Sans was killed shortly after Asgore's death.

Flowey is ironically probably having the least terrible time right now... After the barrier broke, he traveled across the surface, both the forest and the city (while pretending to be a normal flower when the humans are watching)... The barrier breaking somehow made him lose his ability to reset... After Papyrus and Frisk befriend each other, Flowey befriends Frisk, because the child reminds him of Chara... Flowey is less evil and less mean then in canon, but still calls other people idiots sometimes.

Papyrus traps Frisk in the forest and tries to kill Frisk, but he couldn't do it and lets Frisk go instead... Immediately Frisk knocks Papyrus to the ground and is about to stab him in the skull with a knife... But Frisk decides against and calmly tells Papyrus to leave the child alone, then Frisk quietly walks away... And that's how their beautiful friendship starts!

The 7th soul that Asgore used was Frisk's older sibling and Frisk vowed to destroy what's left of the monsters in revenge... But Frisk couldn't destroy a monster that spared the child's life... Eventually, both Frisk and Papyrus realize that they were both wrong about each other's species and that revenge/war is stupid.

Neither Frisk nor Papyrus killed anyone before and they form a forbidden friendship.

(This is AU is based on the fact that Flowey eventually lost control over the human souls... and on the fact that Asriel had trouble controlling Chara's soul... What if the same happened to Asgore if he gets all the souls?)

[utdrmv-confession-box]

Transcript: If Frisk can do a reset...does that mean Chara can do it too?, I mean they are human and have souls. Or maybe all 7 souls are actually 'players' controlling their 'vial' bodies,That's why Frisk can do a reset, and even Toriel once said that she felt like she knew or was familiar with another soul that fell into the underground...And maybe because Chara can't do the reset because they doesn't have a "soul" Or have no control on that timeline,And maybe "players" can't reset when fighting Photoshop Flowey because their reset has been taken/used...Maybe the "player" is sometimes the real enemy in undertale-...

[stuffyflowers]

Masterpost of everything we learned from the Kissy Cutie AMA with Merengue on ACDS for those wondering

(Merengue is the creator I should probably mention that lol)

The game, particularly its theme of racism, derived from the rise of Trump in 2016, during which hatred towards Mexicans was popular. As a Mexican woman herself, she says this was a very personal source of inspiration and she considers Kissy Cutie a "healing journey."

Similarly, Sona is inspired by her personal experience living with a controlling parent. Her confusing motives and reactions take you off guard. She depicts a complex person who is full of regret but fails to be better.

The endings were were a criticism of dating sims, trying to follow Undertale's ending style and the fandom.

She regrets making the truest ending so hard to obtain. She is tempted to make TikToks showing people how to get all the endings to stop the suffering.

She would love to remake Kissy Cutie, but "ran out of budget on the intro." In all honesty, she would think about it if people are really interested.

The game has so many artstyles as no artist wanted to compromise to draw all the sprites. While the end product worked, she would have preferred a more homogenous artstyle.

If she were to remake the game, she would like to redraw everything herself.

The yellow soul was renamed to Clover as the demo of Undertale Yellow had released during development. There are also references to Flowerfell (such as in Sona's final transformation), which was another fan creation she loved.

Sona's powers had many changes during production. She was going to be a doll-like monster that absorbed human souls (and goes bald at the end?), then she was going to have Flowerfell reset powers, but in the end she was made to be a witch whose powers came from an ancient artifact. She is also able to turn the monsters human through "determination."

She wanted to explain every loose end left in Undertale, hence the focus on Chara's backstory and their upbringing with Sona. She says Chara is the main character, not Sona.

She was nervous about doing a Sans path due to his popularity at the time. So she made him "that way" on purpose.

She handles the Frisk/Chara/Player relationship "like the Catholic Church handles the Holy Trinity."

She has played Danganronpa, but has not read Homestuck or watched Glitchtale.

The characters with no sprites are a result of their artists abandoning the project.

Alphys, Mettaton and Toriel paths were planned, but never got far.

The Alphys route was being written by a friend who she began to distance from. She never got to see any of it.

She has not played Undertale Yellow, only the demo.

The disappearance of the 42 Ayotzinpa students is another source of inspiration (The scene in which you find Mettaton's body likely alludes to this).

She loves and encourages fan content of her game, including using the game's code as a base for projects.

The humanification arc was intended to explore how a racist would 'solve racism' without violence, by turning everyone into "someone like them."

The human designs have slightly pink hair to reflect Sona's influence. Human Papyrus was inspired by his in-game comments about wanting muscles and hair, human Sans was "the typical fandom approach," and everyone else became anime characters.

The music was the last thing worked on. It was rushed and they didn't know what they were doing.

Sona was not intentionally similar to Monika or Makima.

Sona is (supposedly?) wearing a black mourning dress (Likely mourning Chara hence the yellow flowers).

The cover of Waterfall is her favourite track.

The idea of Sona being a skeleton named Arial was tossed around briefly.

The truest ending was created after some staff requested the option to save Flowey and Sona. It also fulfilled her plan for Sans and Papyrus to take over the orphanage.

Sona's final transformation intended for her to be kept human "but not without her sins showing"

The glitchy text character was Flowey. The glitchiness showed the interference and Flowey being manipulated

[spotaus]

Timeless AU Sans and Asriel! 🫡

I was going to color them but I'm mildly afraid my roommate will come back and I am not about to try and explain... this. So, temporarily take these sketches!

With a bonus full-family wip! (I need to make Gaster smaller/thinner but y'know--)

In this au, Gaster isn't killed in the core accident, and so he's present for the major tragedies that would normally follow his death. And subsequently is able to fix some of the problems! One being Asriel's death and transformation into Flowey.

Gaster, who was working on making a monster from almost scratch (his soul was too weak to form another soul but he wanted a kid and yadda yadda), successfully created Sans. After a bit of studying Sans' growth, Gaster was practically able to revive Asriel. Asriel is older than Sans by a few years as his 'death' made him miss a few.

And during this process, Gaster also managed to rizz up Asgore by complete accident. They'd always been close, even before the war, but Asgore was to be king, and he was already betroathed to Tori at birth, so Gaster was content being by Asgore's side as a friend. Buttttttt Toriel leaving for the ruins in her grief left the door wide-open for Asgore to finally make a move on Gaster. They never officially marry, but literally everyone outside the ruins is aware that the two are together.

Asriel remembers very little of his death, but he remembers Chara, and he remembers the surface. Asgore and Gaster don't hide the fact that Asriel died from him, and one day Azzy got up the courage to ask Gaster if he could bring back Chara too. Gaster hadn't even thought about it, but he figured that without Chara's body he wouldn't be able to revive them in any meaningful way. Azzy doesn't give up hope, but he doesn't bother Gaster about it anymore.

Azzy is a gentle soul, shy and playful. He's not used to being an older sibling, and he misses his mom, but he likes his new family too. He often trips and falls, resulting in the bandaid scattered on his body, and he loves to farm just like Asgore, so he usually wears overalls.

Sans is Gaster's oldest son by magic-line. He's punny, a prankster, and the more confident between himself and Asriel. If they're out of their element, Sans is the one to forge through the path and laugh while doing it! Gaster can't get him to wear shoes ("You and Dad and Azzy don't, so why should I?" Is usually his rebuttle. No one can really argue it.) So he's usually seen only wearing socks.

Papyrus (who is only a few scribbles in Gaster's arms rn) is the youngest and doesn't really get the same chances as Sans and Azzy do as older kids, but he'll grow to be the most rambunctious of all of them. I think Papy is self-conscious when he's young (what if he's not good enough? Sans is so good at science stuff like Papa, and Asriel is a great prince like Dad, so where does that leave him?) But he ends up training in combat with Asriel before meeting Undyne and deciding he wants to be part of the royal guard! (That way he can protect his 1 hp brother and his Princely brother!) Undyne and him are quick friends.

Actually, since I'm on a role: Asriel keeps studying and learning from his dad on how to be a prince. Honestly, he likes what Sans and his Pops are up to a lot more, but he doesn't mind being Future King. (He sneaks into the lab to watch the two do their studies whenever he can.) Meanwhile Sans works with Gaster in the labs! He's a fast learner and loves the work, but everyone can see just how much more natural he is with social science. He understands the political theory Asriel tells him and Sans can dissect exactly wtf it means and why Asriel has to react the way he does. Sans still ends up being the Judge, but largely keeps his focuses to the Lab with his pops abd Alphys. And Papy is certainly Great. He ends up as co-captain of the Royal Guard. He's not quite as personable as Undyne, but he sure is committed, and has direct ties to the royal family. More often than not, when he's not doing his rounds or helping with training, he's Azzy's personal guard.

And yes, this does mean incoming 20-ish Asriel, 19-ish Sans, and 17-ish Paps designs are incoming eventually! Asgore and Gaster get to see their sons grow up!!!

[renmarrr]

Draft conc. Outerfell as I see it.

This au reminds of star wars, palettes are mostly black and white, additional colours are mostly cold. 

Time: 230X is present. Chara’s arrival was approximately 100 years ago. 

Monsters are trapped on asteroid belt, and they require seven human souls to power their technology that will trap those few planets and Earth. That will let them gain control over them and return home by conquering humanity. Other planets have tiny cities, but they won’t be able to help Earth and they must be took over later. 

Frisk crushes there accidentally on their way to new school’s campus, local invisible fields of asteroids messed up transport’s systems. Frisk needs to fix it to get back home (there is no point in heading to new school). 

They can befriend monsters and stay/depart home with message that monsters aren’t need to be sealed anymore (pacifist, the hardest route) (no future invasion). 

They can sneakingly fix the transport and flee (less hard but much shorter route) (future invasion will happen). 

They can approach monsters commonly, without befriending, try to fight back (Frisk can’t kill but can beat lesser monsters, they are forced to lose money and flee like in deltarune) and flee home with Flowey’s help (neutral, bring future invasion closer). 

Asgore is a fearsome king of the belt. Toriel rejected her role as a queen and lives in local Ruins, still checking her devices and waiting for previous children to message her. Gerson teaches kids how to fight. Undyne is a captain of the royal space guard. Papyrus is lieutenant but is almost like a second captain. Sans and Alphys are scientists. MTT is AI that controls tech like a central operating system. He does his job perfectly and obediently but can become upset and sad if you remind him of his dreams of becoming a star. In the end of pacifist route he gets the body he likes and he performs.

Chara purposefully arrived there. Asriel insisted on leaving them alive (so his parents wouldn’t kill the kid) and took care of them. They came up with a plan: Asriel must absorb the human soul to be able to break the seal. But that wasn’t enough. Parents warned him that he need more souls than one. He was determined and reckless to find more. In those times, the belt was secured, he took off and destroyed half of ships but was attacked and forced to give up and leave. He died and later by Alphys’s help became a star-like flower. 

[theveryconfusedartistsart-blog]

Before I begin, I...uhhh...have not seen or played chapter 2 of Deltarune, and I don't know when I will be doing that. (I have my reasons.)

However, I still really want to share my thoughts about something that I've been thinking about.. . and I wonder if I'm not the only one.

Okay, so I know all about the theory that Kris (and Frisk) are being possessed and controlled by the red soul, or a ghost (Chara) or the player, I know these theories are very widely accepted.

However, have you thought about Flowey? He has the same power of Determination and ability to manipulate time, and perhaps Sans even has the ability too.

However, Flowey and Sans aren't being controlled by anyone, hell, Flowey doesn't even have a soul to control him, he controls himself.

Have you also thought about the six souls in Undertale that were captured? What makes those souls different from the red one? Were they being controlled too? Or were they just regular human souls? Is the red soul a regular human soul?

It made me think about Kris, are they truly being controlled by 'the player'? Or perhaps even another ghost? I'm fully aware that all the signs point to 'YES'.

But just stop, forget the theories for a second, and think for a moment, Kris is clearly a troubled and depressed kid, their best friend and brother have left them alone with their divorced parents, plus they have to go to school on top of that!

They're clearly dealing with heavy emotions, it probably makes it very hard to sleep and that stupid soul isn't helping! It's what makes them feel their emotions!

....and if Kris has the power of Determination, they're likely Determined enough to pull their soul from their body, detaching themselves from their feelings and forcibly making themselves empty (like Flowey) and locking it in a cage, freeing themselves from their emotions just so they can get restful sleep.

Another thing to think about, that birdcage was there before the game began, it could be a sign that Kris had been doing this for a while before we (the player or ghost) even got there, they could have done this at any point, but no, they waited right before bed.

It makes me wonder if Chara ever attempted to physically free themselves from their emotions too, or is this a trick only Kris can do?

I'm only bringing this theory up because the whole player possession thing has never fully sat well with me, especially after Undertale when Flowey talks to 'us'? as Chara, and then in Genocide, Chara talks to...who? The player? Frisk???? who's truly in control??? It's so vague.

There's so many mysteries within these games, and just as many theories, I'm not trying to disprove any or say the widely accepted one is wrong, I'm just offering my thoughts and widening our options.

In the end, I'm guessing the answers will all come when the chapters are all released.

[howlsofbloodhounds]

So I had this type of idea for Stage 4 for awhile now, heavily inspired by a non-utmv fanfic I read before. I bounced a lot of ideas off people in real life and some online, so there was some tweaking and adjustments over the time.

Stage 4 believing that if no one tells it to eat or offers it food, it’s because They don’t want it to eat. And so it must earn a reward.

It will only allow itself scraps of a reward (food, rest, shower, anything it thinks it needs) if a mission objective is fulfilled and the scene is marked. When a mission is completed and marked, it is allowed more and bigger rewards.

And it is only ever allowed rewards if it marks the mission as completed—such as carving or drawing an upside down heart on the victim, the scene, or its own body. The upside down heart is to represent Stage 4–that it did this and earned all the rewards—and affirm its mirroring of Chara.

A mission objective is possibly killing a target. Higher targets such as Frisks, Boss monsters, etc have names and higher rewards and punishments.

For example: Boss Monsters like Asgore, Flowey/Asriel, and Toriel could be called Command Objectives or considered Primary Targets. These figures symbolize the core of the world’s structure and power, and their destruction would be considered the ultimate display of obedience and power.

When it manages to kill these targets, Stage 4 could sense it’s earned an immense reward akin to a massive surge of energy.

This could mean it is allowed to binge on a full meal, which Stage 4 would only reserve for the highest-value targets. The meal could even be tied to something symbolic, like eating after erasing/killing Asgore as if its feeding on the defeated world itself.

Stage 4 could even delusionally believe that with each Command Objective kill, it unlocks a new skill or becomes physically more powerful, further feeding into its belief that its advancing toward its ultimate mission.

Stage 4 could even experience a brief moment of clarity or relief—the constant feeling of being watched or judged might lift temporarily, as though They are momentarily satisfied.

Failure to kill a Primary Target would result in severe punishment in Stage 4’s mind. It could deny itself food or any form of reward for an extended period, refusing to eat or do anything until the target is successfully eliminated.

Stage 4 could resort to self-harm, carving more intense or larger marks into its body as punishment, believing that it hasn’t earned the right to exist if it can’t complete such an important objective.

And the of course there’s the Personal Objective—Papyrus. Although Stage 4 will never think of it by name.

Killing Papyrus would carry extreme emotional weight, even if Stage 4 is emotionally disconnected, and the rewards would be specific to the psychological and emotional significance of the kill.

The Personal Objective is a target that transcends mere violence and ties into Killer’s identity and past as Sans. Stage 4 could view Papyrus as an “Impossible Target” due to Killer’s emotional baggage, even if it’s buried under layers of detachment.

If Stage 4 successfully kills the Personal Objective, it might interpret it as the final step in severing its connection to Sans entirely. The reward might not be physical, but a feeling of emotional void, as though Stage 4 has finally completed the process of becoming something separate from Sans.

Upon completing this objective, Stage 4 might mark itself in a specific way—perhaps carving an inverted heart directly where its own SOUL is, symbolizing that it has eradicated its deepest connection to its former self. This could become a ritual in which it leaves a permanent, highly visible mark as a trophy of its success.

After killing the Personal Objective, Stage 4 might grant itself a particularly significant meal, as if the kill has earned it a chance to feast without restriction. It could view this as a form of final reward for overcoming its hardest, most personal challenge.

Even though Stage 4 might not recognize the emotions associated with guilt, it could manifest as a deep, unsettling feeling of failure. If it fails to kill the Personal Objective, Stage 4 could physically punish itself in a much more severe way, such as carving larger or more intense marks into its body.

The delusion of being watched could intensify, making Stage 4 believe that They are forcing it to relive its failures, torturing it with images of the Personal Objective still being alive and mocking its inability to complete the mission.

Characters like Undyne and Mettaton provide a lot of EXP and are crucial for increasing LV (Levels of Violence). Killing them could be viewed as crucial for Leveling Up and advancing toward its ultimate goal.

Stage 4 could refer to these characters as Leveling Targets, recognizing their role in helping it gain power and EXP. Their purpose is to be eliminated so that Stage 4 can continue rising in LV and fulfill its larger mission.

Each kill could be perceived as granting an instant boost to its Level of Violence, further solidifying Stage 4’s sense of power and purpose. This could lead to Stage 4 feeling physically stronger and more capable after each kill.

After killing a high-EXP figure, Stage 4 might allow itself to eat a moderate meal, seeing it as a functional reward to keep itself going. It wouldn’t be as grand as killing a Primary Target, but enough to keep it sustained as it continues its mission.

Failing to kill these high-EXP targets would result in self-imposed hunger and a belief that it’s becoming weaker, as though not killing them is preventing it from reaching its full potential.

Stage 4 could experience a form of self-doubt, believing that it’s failing in its mission if it can’t eliminate Leveling Targets efficiently. This doubt could manifest as an intensified feeling of being watched, with Them seemingly disappointed or angry.

Stage 4 might cut deeper marks into its body after each failure, believing that it needs to pay for its mistakes.

Food becomes the ultimate reward, and if it doesn’t perform, it withholds it from itself, leading to starvation and physical weakening.

It might feel as though They are punishing it mentally by forcing it to relive moments of failure, experiencing the scorn of its observers.

And of course, saving the most important for last, the Star. Frisks, or an AU’s equivalent of a Frisk.

A world’s Frisk, or an AU’s Frisk-equivalent, with the ability to Reset the world if they possess more Determination than Stage 4, holds immense importance in the hierarchy of Stage 4’s objectives.

In fact, such a character would likely represent Stage 4’s greatest threat, as they hold the power to undo everything Stage 4 has worked for, rendering all its actions meaningless.

This would directly challenge the rigid control and sense of purpose Stage 4 adheres to, making these figures crucial targets in the broader mission to erase timelines.

The Star would rank among the highest-priority targets, given its ability to Reset and undo everything. In Stage 4’s mind, the Star’s mere existence jeopardizes its mission to erase the world or timeline, making it a special and crucial enemy.

While Boss Monsters and high-EXP figures serve as important stepping stones, Frisk (or their equivalent) would be the ultimate objective. Failure to neutralize the Star means the entire timeline can be undone, so eliminating it becomes a matter of necessity.

Stage 4 would view the Star as the embodiment of the Player’s influence or the timeline's refusal to die. The Star holds onto Determination, a power Stage 4 feels belongs only to Them. The Star’s Determination would be seen as a corruption that needs to be eradicated.

In Stage 4’s mind, the Frisk figure could represent the final test of strength—the one obstacle that can still defy the mission’s completion. Killing them would be the ultimate sign that Stage 4 has won, taking full control of the timeline.

The rewards for successfully eliminating the Star or its equivalent would be extraordinary, as this would be seen as securing control over the entire timeline and ensuring no future interference with the eradication process.

The significance of this kill would go beyond just one meal or mark; it would represent a massive psychological victory for Stage 4.

After killing the Star, Stage 4 might finally allow itself a massive reward—perhaps a large, ceremonial meal or months of rest—something it perceives as the ultimate prize for ensuring the timeline remains erased. This would symbolize the culmination of all its work.

Stage 4 could develop an almost delusional sense of invincibility after killing a Frisk-equivalent.

Since the Star is the embodiment of Resets, its death might convince Stage 4 that it has escaped the cycle of resetting and perhaps now is beyond the reach of even the Player's interference. (Of course this is temporary. Because its mission is never ending, and there will always be another Star to kill.)

In killing the Star, Stage 4 might feel as though it has gained complete mastery over the timeline or world, believing that the absence of the Star’s Determination grants it absolute dominion over the timeline. And no one can hurt it again, no one can hurt anyone.

Failing to eliminate the Star would likely feel like the ultimate punishment for Stage 4. The timeline being Reset would reinforce the idea that it’s trapped in a cycle of futility, rendering all of its violent acts pointless. This would have a massive psychological impact on Stage 4.

Stage 4 might feel as if it’s doomed to repeat its mission over and over, with the Star undoing everything, resulting in the ultimate form of punishment—being caught in a loop with no resolution. This would likely lead to escalating self-harm or intense starvation.

The sense of being watched or judged would intensify to the point where Stage 4 could believe everyone is Them, including the Star. The Reset would exacerbate Stage 4’s paranoia, making it feel as though it is under constant, mocking scrutiny.

Failing to kill the Star would mean absolute denial of food or other rewards. Stage 4 would feel that until the Star is dead, nothing it does matters, and it isn’t worthy of any reward. It could starve itself, refusing sustenance until the mission is completed.

The presence of a Frisk-equivalent in a world where Stage 4 is operating introduces the ultimate challenge to its mission.

These individuals would represent the final barrier to erasing the timeline entirely, and killing them would be seen as the greatest victory.

The concept of Reset would become an obsession for Stage 4, pushing it to ensure that no one—especially a figure as Determined as the Star—could ever interfere with the end of the world.

Rewards would be monumental, and punishments for failure would be equally harsh, driving Stage 4 to approach this final task with a cold and calculating sense of purpose.

Reaching certain levels in stats—such as 9 on everything—could even be enough to warrant 9 minutes of rest, or even 9 hours or days of rest if it’s something as massive as having destroyed 9 timelines in succession.

[thegrinningkitten]

Quick re:swap question! How can Frisk and Chara share a body if Frisk's soul was in the core and is now absorbed by monster kid? Shouldn't Frisk have been in the core or maybe with monster kid now? How does that work?

Undertale is kinda vague with where a person's consciousness is "stored". Like, human and monster souls do seem to contain the owners' minds to a point (as evidenced by Flowey/Asriel battles in the various endings), but Flowey is a perfectly conscious person as well, despite having no soul. (And Asriel mentions some people above ground having no souls, and whether to take this metaphorically or not is up to you, honestly.)

So I'm playing hard and loose with the concept here.

The general idea is, for a human to get to the Underground, they fall through the magical barrier at the entrance. (I go with the idea that it's the catalyst for them unlocking their magical powers, like their ability to save and load.) This, while not physically significant, is very high-energy on a magical level. (It's why in Re:Swap Temmie immediately knows when a new human has fallen.)

With that wave of energy Frisk's consciousness —which is only semi-tethered to their soul because it's not completely theirs at this point — basically rubber-bands to Chara's soul.

Why didn't it do that to any of the humans before Chara? Chara's soul is the first red-colored one — the first one that's fully "compatible", so to speak.

[browniefox]

Undertale/Deltarune FanComics

I put out a post for some UTDR comic recs, and I've decided to compile them all here, both so that I can easily access them as I make my way through, and also so that anyone else who is interested in it can also check it out :D I've provided brief descriptions next the ones I could uh quickly find descriptions for or knew personally, so if you notice one you know that's lacking a descriptions, tell me and I'll add it.

Also if you think this list would benefit from further categorization in some way, let me know! Right now it's a bit of a mess and overwhelming lol.

I'll also be updating this with new (or old lol) comics if anyone has more suggestions!

Edit: I’m making a collection blog, @utdrlibrary, that way one can go through the posts for which comic sounds interesting, instead of scrolling through a messy list lol. I’m still working getting the comics from this post up on the blog

(a 🌟 next to a comic means that I have personally read and recommend it ^-^ )

Undertale

Aftertale by @loverofpiggies - Complete.

🌟 Darker yet Darker and the sequel Second Son of Gaster by @sansybones - Sans' creation, how he came to be and find his abilites, and his relationship with Gaster and Papyrus. Complete.

🌟 Over the Void by @undertale-over-the-void - Post-Undertale. Frisk, Asriel, and Monster Kid end up travelling to a strange alternate universe where the war with humans seems to be ongoing. In Progress.

🌟 Dogs of Future Past by @lynxgriffin - Post-Undertale. Trying to find Gaster for Sans' sake, Frisk travels to the past with Flowey, and stuck in the body of one of the dogs that make up Endogeny. Complete.

Under/source by @slylock-syl - In Progress.

Ask Fallen Royalty by @askfallenroyalty - An Everyone Lives au. In Progress?

Ask Frisk and Company by @chamomilekitten and @comikatva - In Progress?

Ask Chara and Friends by Miamouse - In Progress.

The Thought by @tratserenoyreve - Sans uses the souls. Complete.

Mercy by @renrink - Frisk, Sans, and Chara during the San fight? Complete.

You Are Not Welcome by @rumay-chian - Based on the ending of a neutral run? In Progress.

Shifter Au by @audaciousanonj, @leshyleaf, and @wilwoo (I think? There's a lot of names on this blog) - Papyrus (the older brother in this au) gives up his form to a shapeshifter who he hopes will raise Sans better than he is. In Progress?

Inverted Fate by @megaderping - A roleswap au. In Progress.

Underline Au - okay so I remember reading some of this, but the blog (@/underlineau) pulls up strangely and my browser says there's something weird about it? If anyone knows why that is let me know.

Ghost Switch by @clevercatchphrase - Switches Narra-Chara with uh someone else? In Progress.

Fallen Flowers by @tarableart​ - In Progress.

The Old Monster of the Ruins by @knking​ - Asgore Dreemurr, an old monster that take cares of the Ruins and the humans living in it. Complete?

Name the Fallen by @namethefallen - Papyrus went to sleep in a race car bed and woke up in a flowerbed and is trying to find out what happened. In Progress?

Storyshift by @ut-storyshift - I was unsure exactly what to link for this, or if it is even currently a comic? I think it's a fic now. In Progress?

Altered Destiny by @altereddestinyau - Discontinued?

Entity Neo by @entityneo - In Progress?

🌟 Unexpected Guests by @undertalethingems - Papyrus summons the full form of his Blaster and can't get it to go away. Shenanigans ensue. In Progress.

They Say He Shattered by @emilyparagraph - Neutral Routes start colliding with each other. Discontinued.

The Bar of Sanses series by VanGold - A bar for various Au Sans to visit? In Progress?

Heart and SOUL by @auroragriffon - Sans' and Toriel's daughter ends up in the Underground of the past. In Progress.

Duotale by @ask-duotale-b2fc - An au where it's a different child who is the 7th child? In Progress.

Horrortale by @horrortalecomic - Post-Empress Undyne Neutral Route. A new child has fallen into the Underground, and things have gotten bad. In Progress?

🌟 Handplates by @zarla-s - Papyrus and Sans, creations of Gaster, from creation to and through canon (I'm still catching up lol). In Progress.

Deltarune

🌟 Paper Trail by @lynxgriffin - Canon-Divergent take on Deltarune after Chapter 1 of how the story could've gone. Complete.

The Chara Timeline by @lilybug-02 - Chara is Asriel's college roommate. They're both in Hometown visiting from college. In Progress.

Looking Glasses by @ferronickel - Susie, Ralsei, and Lancer, two years after Deltarune. In Progress.

🌟 Gaster's Great Escape by @moldyjunk - Gaster trying to get back to reality, in Deltarune. In Progress.

🌟 Twin Runes by @akanemnon - Frisk somehow ends up in Deltarune. Mostly rn funny shenanigans but seems to be heading towards story.

[pinkcottoncandyss]

After Yellow

What's it's story anyway?

After Yellow will not have a comic for some reasons;

I'm too lazy to do this

I have trouble thinking that nothing is good enough

To be quite honest, the comic is bad and poorly written.

There's no point in having a story made without knowing how put it into practice

But I don't want to leave my au without having it's story shared! I have a lot of affection for this, it took me a long time to write anyway.

Anyway, let's get started

What is the story of the AU?

Chara and Asriel's plan went very wrong, and while the prince returned underground, an adult with the soul of justice followed him wanting to "avenge the child" that Asriel carried in his arms.

The monsters were devastated, they lost both heirs to the throne on the same day! So his protections were down when the human attacked. Half of the population was killed, Asgore and Undyne were two of the thousands of victims. Toriel, seeing everything around her, laid down a new law; The next human to fall would be killed and their soul would be used to break the barrier. She no longer had compassion for humanity, her entire family was killed by a human! Anyway, when Frisk fell underground, he was the third human to get there.

Looking around, they had no idea where they was.

Frisk was playing in the forest when this happened and they didn't even see what they had done.

Anyway, on their way underground, they found Flowey. The flower desperately tried to feel something, but nothing worked. When he saw the human, he was initially with one foot behind, but realized it was just a... child.

Flowey decided to follow Frisk on their journey and help them get out of here. Heading to Snowding, the human met MK, also a child whose parents were victims of the massacre. They didn't remember what a human looked like, when it all happened, MK was just a baby, so they didn't realize that Frisk was one of them.

All the monsters would hide wherever the trio passed, all afraid of what the human was capable of. That's why Frisk at no point had the obligation to defend themselves against anyone. Anyway, MK guided Frisk to snowding, where Sans was. Sans was the first guinea pig with the determination experiments, and also the only one so far. He thought that what was the point of living in this place when some human could fall and kill his brother? But unfortunately, his body couldn't handle the determination within him. His bones are slowly melting and rotting from the inside out. Sans at this point can no longer walk without crutches. That's why, when he saw Frisk together with MK, he couldn't stop their journey.

The children continued walking until Watterfall, where Mad mew mew showed up! the leader of the royal guard and the second scariest woman in the entire underground (second only to the queen). She wasted no time and tried to kill the human, hunting the child with anger in her eyes. When MK tried to stop her, she told him that Frisk was a human and why she wanted to kill them. Even knowing this, MK didn't let her do anything to Frisk and helped them escape to Hotland. Unfortunately, having to stay behind.

Frisk continued their journey with only Flowey hidden in their backpack, their only company. They continued until they found a restaurant, where they met Muffet and Grillbys. Both best friends.

Grillbys helped Muffet get the spiders out of the ruins, their fire keeping them all warm until they reached Hotland, their home. They both started a restaurant together! It was a success! The food there was genuinely delicious.

Anyway, Frisk stopped for lunch there (they hadn't eaten anything since they fell underground, they was hungry). However, they was unable to eat their meal in peace, as the chief cook, Papyrus, attacked. She took that job because Mad Mew mew "didn't want weaklings in the royal guard" (her words) and kicked him out. Not letting him even want to be trained. Seeing Frisk there, a flame of hope lit up inside him! He could finally follow his dream! But of course, he couldn't kill Frisk and they both ended up becoming friends.

They both talked about various things. Papyrus mentioned a friend of his who hadn't left the house in months and even showed a photo of her to Frisk. He also gave the idea for the human to convince Toriel to repeal the law of kill humans. After a long conversation, Papyrus gave Frisk his number (even though they said that they didn't have a phone) and went to work.

Frisk and Flowey even tried to continue their journey, but some lasers blocked the way. The talking flower said there was a control panel in the lab that could make them deactivate, so they went there.

Frisk tried to open the door, but it was locked, they also tried to ring the doorbell, but no one answered. Flowey, already bored, picked up a rock and threw it at the window. The human reprimanded him, but still entered the laboratory.

when the lights came on, GOD WHAT A MESS! The laboratory stank worse than a dump, everything was overturned and spread across the floor.

Looking around, Frisk noticed that a woman was lying on the floor, it was the same woman that Papyrus had shown her. She was sleeping amidst stacks of paper and packets of snacks, her white coat was dirty yellow.

The human couldn't see everything so, against Flowey's pleas, they approached the woman and woke her up. Standing up startled, Alphys stared at Frisk for a moment before realizing what they were. The child assured her that everything was fine and that they would not hurt her. Frisk asked if she was friends with Papyrus, to which Alphys nodded and buried her face in her hands. After Undyne's death, she had entered a phase of mourning and depression. Even though Frisk was a child, they could see what was happening.

They both ended up talking, Alphys couldn't hold back her tears and even though that human didn't even know her, they helped her. At the end of the conversation, Alphys gave Frisk a cell phone and let them continue their journey.

A lot of things happened in the meantime, puzzles were solved, soldiers tried to kill Frisk, but managed to reach the palace. The queen was waiting in the garden, irritated by the human's insolence in appearing like this.

Frisk tried to talk to Toriel, but was almost hit by her scythe. The queen seemed in no mood to talk. The fight began, Frisk tried to act, talk and convince Toriel in every way, but she just ignored it. Eventually, she hit Frisk squarely, leaving them with just 1 HP. Flowey was about to intervene, but Frisk decided to just spare Toriel. And when she tried to make the last blow, she couldn't. She couldn't hurt a poor child, even a human one, they was still a child.

She fell to her knees, dropping the scythe. Toriel couldn't do that.

At the end of it all

I would like to say that I had the courage to make a sad ending, but I really couldn't

In the end, Frisk was adopted by Toriel. They and MK were officially siblings!

The law was changed, every human who fell would be a friend, not an enemy.

Mad mew mew was obviously angry with all of this, she didn't like the new terms, but she had to accept it

Alphys finally sought professional help and talked to Papyrus and MTT again

MTT got a robotic body too :D

Papyrus continues to work at the restaurant

Unfortunately, the barrier will never be broken. It takes 7 human souls to do this, something that will never happen.

Bonus; Sans and Toriel are a Canon couple here

My notes

It's really not the best thing in the world and it could be much better, but I'm satisfied and that's what matters!

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me.