#a fanfic archive or one of historical records and literature

[runaeveena]

ao3 is not a fucking library database it's not an actual fucking archive it just has archive in the fucking name and all it has is fanfiction (and other related fanworks, and also very rarely original fiction) holy shit can you guys stop comparing your shitty fanfics to actual important pieces of literature.

Hi! As a masters student in library and archival studies I was introduced to ao3 in my first semester as the, and i quote, "the classification goal of all library systems". It's one of the most advanced databases for digital information searching, a word you would more commonly recognize as "library".

Your statement about it only having fanfiction is very wrong since a lot of art is placed in ao3, I mean the tags are right here for you to look at, I pulled them up in 2 minutes.

I'm curious as to why you claim it's not an archive. For the class, here's the definition of archive from wikipedia in the first sentence: An archive is an accumulation of historical records or materials – in any medium – or the physical facility in which they are located. I'm sitting in an actual physical archive right now at one of the top universities of California. The only difference between this one, the Internet Archive, or ao3, is the content they hold. It is true that there's no literature so to speak, but we don't think there is. There isn't any "literature" on my desk right now, actually. I'm sitting next to a pile of scrap paper from 1825 that held the ramblings of the Governor of Mexico. Why would the archive have this if it isn't literature!? Because someone thought it was important. That's why we archive it.

That's all an archive is. It's just writing that we care about. Even if it is the cringiest, most obscene, self insert production, it's art. Do you not consider fanwork or fan made content to be worth keeping? You prefer you all write our stories in our head and burn our diaries later so we can be miserable on the internet like you? Art like fanfiction has not harmed you in any way and never will affect you, except you are choosing to be mad over it. I want you to ask yourself why.

[spockandawe]

Okay, you know what, I think I'm going to do an impassioned rant on behalf of romance. This isn't a super fresh idea, I've seen much more knowledgeable people than me advocate hard on romance's behalf for years and years, I know people are still actively fighting to get this megagenre the recognition it deserves instead of being brushed off as Literature Lite. But I do want to come at this from the perspective of someone who just doesn't... super jive with the genre. I respect it a lot, romance writers intimidate the hell out of me, and now I have found some books and subgenres that I do enjoy, but that's only been the last year or so.

(I gravitate to sf/f and like a good romantic element, but I'm most happy when it's in support of a bigger plot. The gay lovecraftian historical has background stakes of horrors beyond mortal comprehension, the a/b/o shifter polycule has stakes of slow species extinction, I have more intriguing books marked to read as well. And of course, there's more monsterfucking than I used to imagine, and I am ALWAYS down for imaginative anatomy in my smut)

With a readmore, in case tumblr doesn't auto-shorten right

And what got me thinking about this was the goodreads awards, and the deeply unsurprising win by SJM. I don't like her writing, just 'females' alone is close to a hard no for me, and while I understand the broad appeal of her books, I'm confused and frustrated by the... intensity of their popularity, and I was talking with someone in my book club about it, who feels similarly. My very, very uncharitable knee-jerk take was that there's a lot of young adults who want to read about sex, and don't realize that the romance and fanfic communities have already done it better.

That's not fair of me, to be clear! I am also a person who chooses sf/f-with-romance-subplot over a sf/f romance book. I might find her worldbuilding choices trite, but I'll still mumble at length over how the belgariad and mallorean are actually a lot of fun if you give them a chance. 'Alphahole' might make me emit pterodactyl shrieks of irritation, but so do most of the names in goblin emperor, and I have lots of friends who very much enjoy that book. I stand by my opinions, but my personal tastes are not an objective measure of quality or enjoyability.

And, because I think it has to be said, I think there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with people wanting to read about sex. Nothing. The growing puritanism of the wider internet is extremely alarming to me, and I have no patience with it. I think my archives make it plenty clear that I'm down with smut, I only started writing period because I wanted more atla:lok kink than I was finding, and my archives used to make it very clear that I was equally down for sexy art. I'm terminally online, immersed in fandom, one of the fics I've worked with most for bookbinding (and have plans for in the future) is a space clown bdsm xeno epic. Plenty of sex to be found on ao3 and I just said I don't read much romance. So what gives?

Smash cut to podcasts. I listen to podcasts. And I've tried many times over to find a fandom podcast I jive with. I haven't yet, and I don't think that's the fault of the podcasters. I've got high hopes for the hs reading podcast, for example. But I also remember the first time I realized transformers podcasts were a thing (circa mtmte 47), and opened up an older episode to find the hosts (circa mtmte 13) having an earnest discussion about how rewind might have been attached to dominus ambus, but it seems like maybe dominus ambus owned him, and rewind cared for him as a good master. When the episode was recorded, the comics weren't overtly gay yet, there was no reason to believe they'd be given the thumbs up to GET gay, but it still made my skin crawl to hear about this couple that I knew were husbands, and the podcasters chatting about how one probably owned the other, and I noped out and never went back.

That was a running theme, to my frustration! When podcasts talk about characterization for stories I know, I've got strong opinions. I either have conversations about those with a carefully curated group of friends, or i place opinions forth into the void on here without expecting or particularly wanting conversation about it. And the written word moves faster than spoken, I can read a 15 hour audiobook in less than a day, the time sink of bad tumblr takes versus bad podcast takes is very different. And. Even worse. Sometimes fandom podcasts wade into DISCOURSE. I don't want this. I have a nicely pruned dash, I scroll quickly, and still I could use less discourse. I still get flashbacks to the transformers barbarian au debacle. I really don't want this.

I did realize, eventually, that fandom podcasts were just not working for me. I was tense waiting for discourse and ready to fight the empty air about bad characterization or analysis. But even worse than that, a lot of the time I was bored, I didn't want to hear a detailed critical breakdown of hp when my ancient interest has faded to dying embers. I've never cared about spn or dr who. I want to get into the podcast about shipping dynamics, but it's hard to get excited when I know that I'm just not INTO a lot of the big megaliths that people will rave about. Or, I'm interested in something and haven't consumed yet (ofmd) and I'm staring down the barrel of spoilers for a story I want to experience. But I want to HEAR people discuss what makes the farmers look at the story fields and say 'yep, should be a good crop of praise kink this year'

Frustrating!!! Anyways, back to romance. Romance podcasts.

Because you know what? I can get a LOT of that same content, about character dynamics and interactions and smoking hot sex scenes, and I can get it all delivered with the same fannish delight and enthusiasm it just comes with slightly different packaging than I experience myself online. I forget what pointed me at fated mates (and many of their trailblazer episodes are eye-opening, especially when they interview some gay and lesbian romance pioneers), which was nice, but I started subscribing to podcasts they recommended, and found a HOME with bonkers romance.

I'd been kind of feeling this in the back of my head, that the way these people scream over stories together was very identifiable, but something didn't quite CLICK until bonkers romance that this is really parallel (or divergent?) evolution. Just on behalf of sexism, I was already outraged over the broad dismissal of romance. But then I hear the hosts losing their minds over an absolute batshit story, like, idk, the spidertaur alien and the human who crash-landed on his planst, and how he's trying take care of her and she's not quite REALIZING that yet-- These are, very much, my people! There's a historical romance where a widow is trying to get Ruined to avoid a new marriage and shyly confesses to her new sex-club-owning beau that she's always wanted to kiss a woman, and he arranges a scene where she does that! The hosts go nuts as much as I do! This novel is a bdsm awakening sans impact play but with HEAVY praise kink tied into low self-worth! This one is about a nice young man and his boyfriend, the terrifying smoke monster!

I did decide to wander over and rant about this at length when they were discussing one of the 365 days movies (glorious? sexy? delightful? yes, apparently. good? ehhhhhh) and had a side tangent about how romance novels were so formative and how Stories With Sex were important to them as they grew up, and trying to GET them in a pre-internet age. They're at least 10ish years older than me, I think, I was split between internet awakening and novels (mccaffrey, auel). And the discussion was so familiar, about how fiction is a space for young folks to be introduced to some of these ideas and work through them on their own terms, I won't rehash it, we've all seen it before. And THEN there was further discussion about how the 365 days story has set things up so that a happy, satisfying ending would have to be a triad, right? They doubt it's going there, m/m/f is a long shot for Manly Mafia Men, but the conversational beats are exactly what I live for.

And, looping back in the fandom podcast thing again, I'm getting all this without character analysis I disagree with, I'm getting it without the fandom disk horse beats that I dread, and I'm getting it without spoilers for stories I want to consume. On the occasions a story intro has intrigued me enough to read ('as if', 'unhallowed', 'manix'), I've jumped to the next episode until I can consume it, and that has gotten me reading romance for the first time ever, and shocker, I enjoyed it! I don't think it'll ever be my primary genre, but my tastes are pretty established, and it hit those notes. I am having a FANTASTIC TIME, and I can relate to these people going nuts over X romance book perhaps better than I can relate to people going nuts over, idk, supernatural

This is too long but I'm too deep to stop now! If anyone reads this far, I'm sure to some of you, I'm preaching to the choir. I know there are fandom people who read romance already. But I want to wave this vaguely at people who are uninterested in romance, or who think there's a hard and fast line between fanfic romance and ofic romance. I've already read queer ofic a/b/o and monsterfucking and polycules, and I've barely scratched the surface. I think it is good for people to read both fanfic and ofic, but it's not my job to be the reading police (my solution: be too distracted to read either one), but even without reading, I think it's a worthwhile community to absorb, and to observe. I'll listen to a youtuber dissect a video game I'll never play for hours, and bask in new knowledge acquired. This is very similar, but even more aligned with my own creative/consumptive preferences, and I think more people should try it. I would come up with a strong concluding sentence but my awareness that this is too long has tripped over into profound self-consciousness so okay we're done, bye now, hahaha

[friendofthecrows]

People can block me for talking about this too much, whatever. But here's the thing: I'm anti-censorship so I don't care and will continue talking about it. Don't want to see it? Block me. Block the tags. You know, just like you can do with things you don't want to see on ao3.