#also the hollow crown with sophie okonedo as margaret of anjou

[werewolf-transgenderism]

gwen from merlin deserved better

[theonlinemuse]

Welcome to our first bonus blog, the new post segment where we’ll be covering all the miscellaneous things about insert-media-here that didn’t make it into the episode! This week we’re sharing observations and fun facts about the 2021 release of The Green Knight starring Dev Patel as told by IER’s very own Shamila Karunakaran, who unfortunately had to bow out of recording due to losing her voice. 

This post touches on themes of racism and sexual harassment. And as always, beware of spoilers:

People in this movie really love to cradle Gawain’s face (it's understandable though, Dev Patel and his magnificent beard are extremely pretty here) and the lord and the lady are clearly trying to recruit him as their third.

Bi!Gawain is hardly a concept exclusive to the movie either. In the original story, he kisses both the lady and the lord eagerly without being prompted. He even kisses the lord three times! It’s not like in the film where Gawain is being harassed by the lady and the lord on separate occasions and is clearly frightened by their intimidation. It’s hardly necessary when there’s so much enthusiastic consent in the source material itself. 

Dev Patel continues to be adorable with animals as seen with Armani the horse. He’d never ridden a horse before so not only did Dev feed his animal co-star dandelions in between takes, he also tried to gain Armani’s favour by sneaking him apples he had pilfered from the hotel lobby. Petition for Dev to play a Disney prince in 2024! 

Gawain’s encounter with Erin Kellyman’s character is itself a retelling within a retelling! It’s only mentioned briefly in one line of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, but St. Winifred was an seventh-century Welsh martyr who had wanted to become a nun. According to legend, a travelling prince became enamoured with her beauty and tried to force himself on her after she rejected him and when she fled to her uncle’s church, the prince decapitated her after the ensuing chase. A healing spring appeared where her head fell and she was brought back to life when her uncle returned her head to her body, but she would have a red mark around her neck where it had been sliced through for the rest of her life. 

Some of the details have been changed in the film with the suitor now being a lord who returned to kill her after she rejected his advances, but unsurprisingly, Winifred herself is the patron saint against unwanted advances. When you take into consideration that Winifred is played by a white and Jamaican actress and how her bodily autonomy has been violated by a white man for rejecting what he wanted from her, it’s understandable that Winifred gets upset and outright questions why Gawain would ever ask what she would give him in return for her head. 

She likely thought that she found an ally in a non-white Gawain, but even if he was going through the chivalry script, there’s still an expectation and entitlement to get something in return. Gawain still has a certain privilege over Winifred simply through being non-Black. 

I do love that they took this not even a footnote of a character from the original story and fleshed out a scene for her and I do love that Erin Kellyman got to play a traditionally white character. That being said, she shouldn’t have been the only Black character in the film and don’t try to argue for historical accuracy, more Black British actresses in period pieces, period! 

Fun fact: the places in Wales where St. Winifred was decapitated is traditionally considered to be a place Gawain passed through on his way to the Green Chapel. The original story references Gawain traveling past a place called "Holy Hede", which modern scholars generally agree is the Welsh town of Holywell, the site of St. Winifred’s Well. 

Very irrelevant detail, but the way that Sarita Choudhury is dressed in The Green Knight reminds me of Sophie Okonedo's wardrobe as Margaret of Anjou in The Hollow Crown. It’s an interesting throughline considering Sarita and Sophie both play complicated older female characters who were originally white in their respective old British source materials and have lost their sons by the end of their respective stories, depending on the interpretation you go with for the former. 

If I had a nickel... well, I’d have three since Gawain goes on to lose his own son in the vision of the bad future he has.

But let’s get further into Sarita’s casting or more specifically, who she plays in the movie. And to the trolls in the comments, Sarita is half white and her character is canonically Arthur's half-sister, both in the film and the source material, it's perfectly plausible for Sarita and Sean Harris to play siblings. 

While Sarita’s character is simply called Mother in the credits, she’s a composite of both Morgause and Morgan le Fay, both half-sisters of Arthur in legend. Morgause is mother to Gawain and his more infamous half-brother Mordred (Sacha Dhawan for the role anyone?) while Morgan le Fay is the sorceress orchestrating the events of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

And Gawain himself is also a composite with Mordred, especially the part where he is Arthur’s delfacto heir and is despised by his subjects. 

As David Lowery states, the relationship between Morgan le Fay and Gawain written for the film evokes Lowery's own experiences with his mother and needing to be pushed to stand on his own as an adult. Having mother and son both be brown in the film adds another layer to an already complicated relationship and reminds me WAY too much of what it was like growing up with a brown mother myself. 

When you think more on it, Gawain and Morgan being brown gives further insight into their motivations. It’s telling that even with all his flaws, Gawain as a brown man would still see himself as unfit to be heir to his legendary white uncle. He himself even says that “I have [no tales of myself] to tell”, which works on a metatextual level since there are very few popular portrayals of Arthurian Knights who look anything like Dev Patel.

With Morgan’s case, you could argue that her being brown would be another sign of her being “othered” in Camelot. Even though her half-brother is king, it’s already canon that he hasn’t been very involved in Morgan and Gawain’s lives and if he didn’t give them support, who else would? Especially since it’s already established that even the tavern patrons have no respect for Morgan, freely insulting her to Gawain’s face.

With that context in mind, it makes sense that Morgan would be more proactive in being a shaper of destiny for both herself and her son, even if that means bringing down the fall of a society she had no place in. 

And consider this: given who his mother is, the vision that Gawain has about the bad future near the end of the film: was it really the product of his imagination or did he inherit some form of magic from Morgan le Fay after all? You could argue that the Green Knight is responsible for causing the vision, but when you realize the extent of Morgan’s role in summoning him in the source material...

Finally, what sort of story would you come up with for the little girl playing with Arthur’s crown in the stinger? What would be her role in a potential sequel? Is she Gawain’s foil or would she be more like him than she’d like to admit? What sort of relationship does she have with Morgan le Fay? Is she the future heir of Camelot or does she spell trouble by inheriting her grandmother's magic? Or porque no los dos? If this is something you’d be interested in exploring, dear listeners, we bequeath this prompt to you.

[theshadowmenlounge]

Richard III and The July Revolution

When I finally saw the Ian McKellan Richard III film I was a bit disappointed, his performance was great and there were interesting ideas to come from the concept of adapting this play to the 1930s.  But those ideas weren’t explored fully and the other performances were kinda dull.  

But my biggest pet peeve was removing Margaret of Anjou, now her presence in this play is it’s most explicit historical inaccuracy, the historical Margaret was not in England anymore during any of this time period, but an adaptation that removes it from even the pretense of being about actual history doesn’t need to worry about that.  As a story, her functioning as a Prophetess of Doom is a lot of why this play works and is why I’m glad the first version of it I ever watched was The Hollow Crown series where she’s played by Sophi Okonedo.

Thinking about the idea of adapting this play to other time periods got me to thinking as a part-time Francophile about the idea of using it as a framing device for a fictionalization of the July Revolution of 1830.

Charles X of France and this popular view of Richard III have in common being the youngest of three brothers who was more of a blatant tyrant then his older brothers and the end of his Dynasty overthrown in a Revolution that could also be viewed as more of a Coup. 

Charles was also rumored to have had an extramarital affair with Marie Antionette. Meanwhile he never married a daughter of Marie Antionette but his son did.

Orleans would thus fill the role of Richmond and everyone’s favorite crossover plot-line between the American and French Revolution the Marquis de Lafayette can fill the role of Lord Stanley crowning the new King at the end.

But here’s where specifically my Shadowmen interests come into play. The quasi Prophetess role of Margaret of Anjou can be filled by Josephine Balsamo the Countess of Cagliostro.  As a daughter of Josephine she too has a connection to a recently overthrown dynasty.

[tiffanyachings]

SOPHIE OKONEDO as Queen Margaret of Anjou

The Hollow Crown, Henry VI Part 2

[pomogranategf]

women who can/do snap people in half and drink their blood i want to kiss u on the mouth clap if u agree clap if i should kiss brutal bloody women on the mouth

[heartofstanding]

Reverse Unpopular Opinion: thoughts on The Hollow Crown?

I actually quite like The Hollow Crown. There are many things I don’t like which is against the spirit of this meme, so I’ll ignore them for now.

First: that cast. I don’t have issues with the cast at all - I have issues with the adaptation/characterisation choices but the cast are all excellent and are working with the director’s vision. They get a fair amount of stick in fandom but I like Ben Whishaw and Tom Hiddleston’s performances - they’re not my Richard II and Prince Hal but then they’re good! The adapter's choices are the problem!  And we got a lot of high calibre, in-demand actors performing roles they would never perform on-stage because the role is just too small. Like: we theoretically might have gotten a stage production with Whishaw’s Richard II or Hiddleston’s Henry V, but we probably wouldn’t ever get Jeremy Irons’s Henry IV, Patrick Stewart’s John of Gaunt, Judi Dench’s Duchess of York, John Hurt’s Chorus, Sally Hawkins’ Eleanor Cobham... I could see Sophie Okonedo playing Margaret in one of those adaptations that cuts the first tet down to one play centred on Margaret of Anjou but I’m not sure it would ever be put on a scale that an actor of Okonedo’s calibre would do it.

And, especially for Henry IV onwards, the cast gets to continue in the roles across all the plays. Anton Lesser’s Exeter, Hiddleston’s Hal, Sophie Okonedo’s Margaret, Benedict Cumberbatch’s Richard III. I love that sense of continuity! 

Also, being a filmed production means there’s more of a sense of scale. Getting to see Richard II wading through the sea is just really cool. As a whump lover, I love getting to see Hal covered in blood and mud and limping at Shrewsbury. It’s awesome getting to see a shot of English soldiers trudging through mud. The final shot zooming out from the dead bodies of Bosworth up is really cool too. I might wish they played more with aesthetics and the option of ghosts (I saw a production that had Richard II tell Henry IV that he was in the Jerusalem Chamber and also stand behind Henry V in his “God of Battles” speech and now I want this in every production).

Finally, it was what got me into medieval history and Shakespeare. It is an easily physically accessible way to enter the Histories, even if they’re not always the best version of the plays - like, I found it hard to find the RSC and Globe productions legally in Australia but I had no problem finding The Hollow Crown. 

[gablehood]

@isabellacapets I’d accidentally posted before I’d finished RIFP BUT HERE THEY ARE. Six Queens and Six Iconic TV Moments:

Okay so I’m gonna go for historical queens for this and…. Hmmm… (these are in no particular order but HERE WE GO)

1. Anne Boleyn

I mean I feel like a lot of people would say Anne Boleyn but in fairness she’s popular for a REASON and I just feel like not only her story but also the glimpses of her personality and talent we get through historical records is just so captivating.

2. Phillipa of Hainault

I just LOVE Phillipa. I feel like I love the juxtaposition of her with Edward III and his reputation and the way that she was supposedly able to calm him and her kindness in general. Like just a TRULY nice lady.  

3. Anne of Cleves

MY GIRL ANNE. How can I not be here for Anne of Cleves I mean I’ve always felt a pull to her ever since I first started researching her but I just feel her entire story and narrative is so interesting and the position that she managed to carve for herself in such a dangerous political climate and succeed in Henry’s court when so many other established and ambitious courtiers had been destroyed by it is just? I just find her so fascinating. Like not only did she manage to take her position as one of the richest women in England but also she just comes across as such a genuinely kind, warm and good-natured person? In her dealings with other people at court and even her servants, as well as her step-daughters, she just seems like someone who truly wanted to be friends with everyone and I just find her entire story quite lovely. She’s someone who could have been eaten up by England but instead she thrived there and without compromising her goodness. I think I’m going on a bit here but I LOVE ANNE OF CLEVES.

4. Katherine Howard

I couldn’t not have Katherine Howard here I mean I just have so much love for Katherine. I feel like as much as her story is tragic it’s also made more so by the fact that in her tenure as queen we can see so much potential in her as a consort and also just a lot of her good-nature too. Like more than anything I always come back to the stories of her looking after toddler Elizabeth and showing favour towards her and treating her with affection and I just feel like it’s so moving, not only when you consider what sort of treatment Elizabeth has been used to before now, but also thinking about Katherine’s own childhood and how she would see so much of herself in Elizabeth, as a neglected child. I feel like alongside all the tragedy of Katherine’s life she just had a truly good soul as well.

5. Margaret of Anjou

Okay how can ANYONE resist a warrior queen and I do love Margaret of Anjou. I mean reading about her in history has definitely given me an interest in her before but I WILL be honest and say that The Hollow Crown definitely got me even more interested (because Sophie Okonedo was amazing and iconic).        

6. Catherine of Aragon

AGAIN another warrior queen here but I feel like while we do know about Flodden, I feel like Catherine’s warrior strength is just so apparent in all her dealings in her life and all of her trials and tribulations she just shows so much strength and determination. 

                                                                                                                                     Okay so now for iconic TV moments. (I should mention that I’ve CURRENTLY started watching Spartacus again so I’m feeling the Spartacus vibes. There’s a good chance this may influence my decisions here. But again in no particular order). Essentially these are all #SheDidThat moments.

1. The Explosion of the Sept of Baelor in Game of Thrones. LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!! #SHEDIDTHAT. Like I feel like I should mention this episode aired on my BIRTHDAY. It didn’t seem like a great gift at first considering it robbed me of Margaery and Loras Tyrell but also I’ve come to realise that if Margaery was going to die at LEAST it should be in a scene as iconic as this one. I mean. I don’t think a day has gone by since this episode that i HAVEN’T thought about this scene, quoted or referenced it in some way or made a joke about it. It’s… it just truly exemplifies #iconic.

2. Ilithyia sealing everyone in the Ludus in Spartacus. I’m sorry but I just can never stop thinking about “Seal the fucking doors” I feel like it has to have been years since I saw that scene but it was just… everything. It was incredible. It was so EXTRA (I mean everything in Spartacus was extra that’s why I love it.). I still maintain that it is how I felt when I’d leave all my co-workers behind at work during a customer rush but my shift was over.          

3. Sansa setting the wolves on Ramsay in Game of Thrones. Everyone had a lot of Opinions on this and I get that but also consider this…… #SheDidThat. Like it was just such a satisfying scene to watch and I am SORRY but it got me more hype than almost any other television scene had gotten me before that point. Except little did I know what was going to come the very next week. I was Not Prepared.

4. Aurelia stabbing Numerius in Spartacus. Okay so, again, Spartacus. But also seeing a gifset of this scene was the entire reason I watched Spartacus in the first place and I’ll be honest watching the scene itself did not disappoint. Just??? How can you NOT watch a tiny lady in a flower crown get Extra Vengeance and not think to yourself… hmmm… #Shedidthat.    

5. Lucrezia dropping the chandelier on Juan in The Borgias. I HAD ALMOST FORGOTTEN THIS BUT!!! ICONIC!!!! #SHEDIDTHAT!!!!! Like I feel like the entire aesthetic the entire set up just everything about it was so much. I feel like it’s been years and I’m still reeling. This was FORMATIVE.

6. “I know who you are. I can see you. You are swearing now that someday... you will destroy me. Remember, far better women than you have sworn to do the same.... Go and look for them now.” from Rome. LIKE!!!!! NEED I SAY MORE??? THIS WAS   E V E RYTHING. 

Okay I will admit this is just a  FEW moments I could think of and there are so many other worthy ones that I just either couldn’t choose from or didn’t come to me at the moment (I didn’t put down anything from Borgia but tbf how could i choose ONE moment from Borgia. Like…. the entire series of Borgia Canal+ was an Iconic Tv Moment. #SheDidThat. #HeDidThat #TheyDidThat just every five seconds. Any moment Giulia or Cesare were on screen was iconic.)    

[harryandmeghan0-blog]

Queen Margaret and Henry VI were joined by sex coach in bed, book claims - Daily Mail

New Post has been published on https://harryandmeghan.xyz/queen-margaret-and-henry-vi-were-joined-by-sex-coach-in-bed-book-claims-daily-mail/

Queen Margaret and Henry VI were joined by sex coach in bed, book claims - Daily Mail

Few royals appear to have suffered from lack of privacy more than the current generation. When the Duchess of Sussex complained about the indignity of her private correspondence (with her father) being revealed to the world, it was hard not to be sympathetic.

Unpleasant though the intrusion was, the Duchess should be grateful she wasn’t born in the 15th century.

Then, every aspect of the Royal Family’s lives was monitored — including their most intimate moments, where they were surrounded by attendants, courtiers, priests and ministers.

The BBC’s The Hollow Crown – War of the Roses showed King Henry VI’s wedding to Margaret of Anjou. In the 15th century, royal marriages were traditionally blessed with ‘bedding ceremonies’

Even the most reticent kings and queens had to conduct their sexual lives in front of onlookers. What they did, with whom, and how often was known to the entire court by the following morning.

The detailed retelling of every act of love-making was regarded not so much as salacious gossip, but constitutional business.

On a royal wedding night, the ritual of the bedroom was observed to ensure that the marriage had been consummated and was thus legally binding. As a monarch’s first duty was to provide an heir, any sexual failure had political consequences.

It was partly, of course, because royal marriages were largely dynastic and the begetting of a legitimate heir could save a country from bloody struggles of succession.

Never was this more perilous than during the reign of Henry VI, who succeeded to the throne in 1422 at the age of nine months, and was the only English monarch to have also been crowned king of France.

A virgin until he married at 24, he was also mentally unstable. Unlike his father who crushed the French at Agincourt, Henry loathed warfare and was timid and shy.

Yet his lack of passion for conquest and military success were unimportant when offset against his eight-year struggle to produce an heir. Without a successor, the kingdom’s future was in jeopardy. And it was for his endeavours — or lack of them — in the royal bedchamber that he was judged.

Every moment of the Royals’ lives was monitored as they were constantly surrounded by attendants, courtiers, priests and ministers

Ben Miles starred as the Earl of Somerset alongside Sophie Okonedo as Queen Margaret in The Hollow Crown

Historian Lauren Johnson has suggested that the court took matters into its own hands.

She has uncovered evidence in the National Archives and Royal Household accounts showing that when his wife, Margaret of Anjou, visited the king’s bedroom, they were sometimes joined by trusted attendants. ‘Was it because the famously chaste Henry didn’t know what he was doing?’ Johnson asks.

‘I think it’s entirely possible that it had reached a certain point where it perhaps became necessary to make clear to him what he should be doing.’

Royal marriages were traditionally blessed with ‘bedding ceremonies’ in which the newlyweds would be put to bed — the bride undressed by her ladies and the groom escorted to the bedchamber by musicians and priests.

Sometimes they demanded to see the couple’s naked legs entwined — an accepted sign of consummation. On other occasions the attendants did not withdraw until they heard the sound of passion.

The morning after, their bed-linen might be displayed as proof of the act, which in turn led the phrase ‘to air one’s dirty linen in public’.

But what Henry and Margaret experienced was different.

‘This was not just their wedding night, it was an ongoing thing,’ says Johnson, who suggests that Henry had a coach in his bed to teach him how to have sex.

She quotes the Ryalle Bok of court protocol that records how once the king was in bed, he would send for the queen.

Another witness described that when the king and queen lay together, his chamberlain lay ‘in the same chamber’. Johnson says it is not clear when the attendants left, ‘leaving open the intriguing suggestion that they remained to make sure the marriage bed was properly used.

Sophie Okonedo plays Queen Margaret in the Hollow Crown which is set during the War of the Roses. Some historians believe that when Margaret went into her husband’s bedroom they were joined by trusted attendants 

‘The evidence that there are people staying in the king’s bedroom potentially some years after he is married . . . is very odd.’

Her book, Shadow King: The Life And Death Of Henry VI, says the young sovereign’s inability to sire an heir undermined his masculinity and authority.

But eventually Henry did produce a son, Edward of Lancaster, who was killed during the Wars of the Roses — the only heir to the throne to die in battle.

Henry was not the only boy-king to need lessons in lovemaking.

Two centuries later, Louis XIV of France also was a student, albeit a more attentive one. The Sun King was a great royal philanderer, despite the size of his manhood, which, according to one spurned lover, was on the small side.

It all began at the age of 15 when his mother sought a woman to teach her beloved Louis that beds were not just for sleeping in.

The woman had to be discreet, experienced but not too experienced. Looks scarcely mattered — which was just as well for the Baroness de Beauvais, a lady-in- waiting of almost 40, who had one eye and was no beauty.

But ‘one-eyed Kate’ was an experienced courtesan and credited with the ‘picking of the royal cherry’, as the taking of his virginity was later described.

It was considered a service to the nation and she was rewarded with two houses in Paris, a hotel and a pension. Louis remained a willing student and frequently visited her over the years.

In 18th-century Europe, the sex lives of the royals continued to be a topic of discussion.

After seven years of marriage and no pregnancies, Joseph II, the Holy Roman Emperor, sought the advice of his worldly brother-in-law Louis XVI — soon to lose his head to the guillotine in the French Revolution.

Joseph told Louis of his sexual activities and the reason for his lack of offspring became apparent. ‘He has strong erections, he puts his member in, stays there without stirring for two minutes perhaps then withdraws without ejaculating, still with an erection and wishes her good night,’ Louis later reported.

The situation was no less different for queens. In Britain, the menstrual cycle of the virgin Elizabeth I was the subject of fierce debate.

Henry VI and Margaret of Anjou with their courtiers while John Talbot, the Earl of Shrewsbury kneels before the Queen to present her with a book 

Determined to know if she was fertile, Philip II of Spain was said to have bribed her laundress to supply intimate details.

Her priapic father, Henry VIII, also had a very public sex life. When he married Anne of Cleves, the Royal Household purchased an erotic bed-head.

It was carved with two small cherubs of unmistakeable gender — on the king’s side, one clutching his outsize codpiece. On the queen’s side, a female cherub in vulgar centrefold style.

Unfortunately, the aphrodisiac furniture had little effect. Henry found Anne so hideous that, as he told Thomas Cromwell, his chief minister, he was unable to make love to her and the marriage was swiftly annulled.

So WHATEVER anxieties the Duchess of Sussex is experiencing as the birth of her first baby draws near, she can console herself with the knowledge that they cannot compare with those of her royal predecessors.

Had she been carrying a king’s child 500 years ago, up to 70 people would be present in the birthing chamber, in part to ensure there was no sleight of hand with an infant imposter being installed.

This tradition of having senior dignitaries present continued well into the 20th century.

When the Queen was born in Mayfair on April 21, 1926, Home Secretary Sir William-Joynson Hicks was present, while his successor John Clynes was detained in Scotland for two weeks in 1930 awaiting the overdue arrival of Princess Margaret at Glamis Castle.

The last time a Home Secretary bore witness at a royal birth was for that of the Queen’s cousin Princess Alexandra in 1936. By the time the Prince of Wales was born in 1948. the practice had died out.

Mind you, the presence of fathers at births was even then still much too modern. When Charles arrived, Prince Philip was playing squash.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6718941/Queen-Margaret-Henry-VI-joined-sex-coach-bed-book-claims.html

[weloveperioddrama]

I want to do a racebent fancast of black members of medieval-style high renaissance-style family. But I'm having trouble finding live images of black folk in that style, especially for knights (knighthood is pretty vital to some of the characters). Can you recommend some examples, especially for men/knights?

Hi!

For Renaissance, you might want to check Laurence Fishburne’s Otello and Much Ado About Nothing (1993), starring Denzel Washington (thought the costumes in the latter are not particularly historically accurate for the 16th century - but he’s a soldier). The upcoming Still Star-Crossed is also set in Renaissant times, though there’s only a trailer so far (the show will probably air sometime in the Fall). We are having a hard time finding examples for the Middle Ages for knights, maybe Luke Youngblood as Sid in Galavant. But for ladies you have Sophie Okonedo as Margaret of Anjou in The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses and Angel Coulby as Guinevere in Merlin.

Maybe any of our followers have some suggestions of their own?