#and i just. dont think being suicidal automatically makes a person unstable and we shouldnt fall for conservative propaganda saying it does

[gibbearish]

also the thing of trying to boil it down to like "he was a hero whos mental state was made of titanium" or "he was an unstable mentally ill weirdo who killed himself and pretended it was for a reason" seems. counterproductive at the very least

[dyketubbo]

i want to start this post by saying this is all /rp and that if i sound condescending, its probably intentional because im a lil fed up. still tried to be polite but if it fell through, uh, eh. its minecraft roleplay, im not truly heated, and if i thought of myself as being better than anyone for my opinions on blocks attacking each other i think id really have to reconsider my life and how i got here. anyways,

could you imagine if ppl just like actually started blaming things that are unable to control how others feel abt them for like. the way others feel abt them. like thats messily worded but w how people talk about lmanburg its like.. have yall never had something you would fight for? i would absolutely fight for my friends, fight for my family, hell id fight for my fuckin cat, my sketchbook, whatever, because thats mine and others arent allowed to just threaten what i care about for fun

but.. if i start to fight for something, because i care about it and someone else puts it in danger, its not the thing in dangers fault that im fighting for it? the person causing the danger shouldnt be doing that in the first place!! maybe i shouldnt ""have"" to sacrifice my time or wellbeing or whatever for things i care about but i *want* to, because i want to fight for what i care about

so why is it that once l'manburg is something to fight about that its?? somehow a piece of land/an abstract concepts fault that people were willing to fight for it?? it was their thing! l'manburgians had a right to secede, you can argue that it was based in xenophobia and manipulation and that wilbur was never good all along (gross reading, but you can take that up with the avid wilbur enthusiasts, this post isnt abt him) all you want but in the end it started out as a joke. the drug bits were jokes, the people who joined did so willingly, wilbur was barely fuckin present for a lot of his own countrys development, tommy and dreams relationship was friendly (with creepy vibes as dream got more and more stalkerish towards tommy), despite all the claims of No Americans they didnt Do Shit when americans were on their land and it was clear that the americans vs british debate was cc jokes that the characters didnt truly take seriously, the walls were iirc just. to make a good thumbnail or some shit (aka aesthetic), it really was just. a friend group with rules with the friends being little shits sometimes and dream really fucking hated that ig but in the end the l'manburgians really did not have any Special Attitude that made them any different than the average person on that server, they just happened to take a house-wide piece of land and said "hey we want this and its kinda weird for you to say the whole world is yours anyways so we want this to be like. ours. please? please"

but. l'manburg is.. not something you can just Blame. its not a real country with a real system set in place, it was some shit fuckin buildins in some walls and if the characters wanted to fight for it more power to them!! people get so mad (debate wise, not in terms of actually being upset) at the idea that the characters sacrificed things and themselves for their country but theyre. making a choice to fight for what they believe is right. and hell, for a good ass portion they just try to talk through it, thinking war is something you can fight with words when the other side just wants to secretly rig it all with tnt.

blame the people who continued to put l'manburgians in danger, blame dream for being obsessed with some teenager and placing way more symbolic power in the damn discs than tommy ever did, blame the dream team for rigging l'manburg with tnt and blowing it all up, blame dteam and eret for the fcr (which is the real start of wilburs downwards spiral. he was not always unstable, because thats not how human beings work. theres a difference between dream always having a similar motif of "this is fun" and wilbur actively showing clear differences in how he acts with each time he logs on), blame the people who constantly tried (and succeeded) to rip l'manburg from its citizens over and over until eventually all there was of the country is a big fuck off crater with a glass covering

but theres no damn point in blaming the country itself. its a bunch of fuckin land. even if you take what it symbolizes (which, for every character that was apart of it, it symbolized family and love and safety and care and trust and it was other people that tarnished that, because symbols dont chunk error themselves) its just. a symbol. its something the characters are attached to, and man, its almost as if the series has been fucking screaming at the viewers that viewing attachments as the problem is the wrong thing to do. should characters "have" to sacrifice themselves for l'manburg? no! and they *don't* have to! its shown repeatedly that they can just fuckin leave if they want to, no one will stop them!

they *choose* to fight and sacrifice and *care* and blaming what they care about for being something thats cared about is just wrong. especially in a situation where the discussion is literal death???? in which most cases were very clearly "person a kills person b" (or in wilburs case, assisted suicide for his last life), aka meaning that.. the murderer is at fault for murder. thats basic cause and effect, it should not be a debate topic to say "if you murder someone intentionally because you want them to stop caring about something you are at fault for murdering them".

like damn, next you mfs are gonna tell me that tommys a bad person because tubbo was willing to let dream kill him for tommy to be free (at least, tubbo saw it that way), and that dream isnt at fault for threatening tubbos life because tommy shouldnt have been so attached to those discs (of which are only important because dream had been using them as a way to have power over tommy and over the narrative), and that tommys bad for daring to care about things, for daring to care about *people* too, because if youre willing to sacrifice for something then its automatically bad.

....

oh.

wait.

thats exactly how people think. no fucking wonder then. you know, with a villain as obvious as dream, youd think maybe the audience would have learned that "attachments bad and fighting for what/who you care about bad because if you didnt care so much you wouldnt get hurt by the people who have been actively trying to hurt you and what/who you care about" is *not* the moral you should be going with when debating whether or not someone is at fault for killing someone when they had every option to Not Do So. watch the mars conflict again and maybe youll understand that the problem isnt attachments, its the people who want to use them against you.