#and its this idea of like. what dess-chara-kris-frisk have

[acaciapines]

guys what if i told you ive been thinking about dess and actually i think dess/chara might be able to work out in the drkau...like ive been doing some thinking into dess and her reasons and why she does what she does and how she cares about people and im starting to nail down the role i want asriel to play, and. and.

guys i think dess is actually going to be able to change. i think dess figures out how to change but asriel never does....

[emerald9d]

Dess theories?

Good question, but I honestly don't have a ton on her specifically. After all, we've barely seen this character.

She's like this posthumous character haunting the narrative, whether she's actually dead or not. She can't not be important in some major way. The question is simply, how?

I may not have thoughts on her specifically, but I do have thoughts about many things closely surrounding her. As well as things she reminds me of from UT. That post from earlier we both reblogged is absolutely correct to look for parallels there.

That post paralleled her more with Flowey, however. I'm more inclined to compare her to Chara the most. Someone else who really haunted the narrative, and only manifests fully under very specific circumstances.

Part of this reasoning is because I have a hard time thinking about Dess without also thinking about Kris. I may not be a fan of the theory of the player puppeteering Kris, but that doesn't mean I've ruled out Kris knowing things that we don't. After all, we've already seen this with Frisk. They know their name is "Frisk," it's just that nobody bothered to ask until the very end. I figure there's something similar with Kris, but in their case, the information is things they aren't too keen on just blurting out, even in private. Even with someone they really trust.

I'm basically of the mind that whatever happened to Dess, Kris was there for it. Or, at least, they were there for some part of it. This event would have also lead to Kris' current "possessed" state. As well as, potentially, their insular and skittish nature at the beginning of the story.

Which then, of course, leads me to believing that Dess is what is possessing Kris, much like how Chara can possess Frisk under specific (awful) circumstances. Like, even back in UT, well before DR was a thing, I always felt like the whole genocide Chara situation was trying to tell us... something, about the nature of humans. Or the nature of souls, human or otherwise. I was just never sure what.

... until we got DR. Now, I'm pretty sure that the end of genocide in UT was basically a prelude to whatever is going on with Kris. And the only candidate for "the Chara" in this situation that we know of, currently, is Dess. Though, this would kind of imply that she's just flat out dead?

This leads me to the way Noelle and the rest of Hometown talk about Dess. And a wrinkle in the above idea: they don't make it sound like she's dead. They make it sound like she's been missing for a long time. That's different. Now, granted, if she's been missing for long enough, people are probably going to just start assuming she's dead. But everyone in town is kinda avoiding admitting that outright, I think. Which does feel like a very "small town" piece of drama. So, yeah, Dess' "alive or dead" status is kind of in limbo at the moment. We know, of course, that there's a third option of her being wrapped up in the darkness in some weird way. But other characters interact with the dark worlds fine. So, even with that in mind, something very strange an unusual would have had to have happened to her.

So, yeah. Not much direct information on her besides vague hints at her interests, but there's certainly a lot surrounding her.

EDIT: I also haven't ruled out that "the Chara" in the Kris possession situation is someone or something else entirely. I just wanna make it clear I'm not, like, saying its 100% Dess. I don't really know. Also, maybe Dess really has been dead all this time, and we just end up finding out and confirming it. Which would be a pretty brutal move, though would also make her more likely to be "the Chara," rather than less.

[glitchthedemon]

Possible Deltarune Theory

I’m going feral send help /hj 

I’ve been thinking about this for a while and while it is a little far-fetched I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this to check I’m not connecting dots that aren’t there

anyways v long post so click if u dare

Okkk so general knowledge:

Deltarune shares its name with The Delta Rune. The Delta Rune symbolises The Angel, a being who has seen the surface prophesied to save the Underground and free the monsters. Some interpret it as bringing them to the surface, others interpret that as killing them. It’s often though that the Angel is either Frisk, Chara or Asriel

Asriel:

At the end of Undertales True Pacifist route, you face Asriel - The God of Hyperdeath. In some cultures, Asrael is the name for the Angel of death. His God of Hyperdeath form resembles the symbol of the Angel a.k.a The Deltarune. During his fight, he talks about purging the timeline and create it anew, so he can play with Frisk, who he believes to be Chara, forever.

Main Theory:

What if Deltarune takes place as an alternate timeline where Asriel beat Frisk and remade the timeline. Of course, still being technically a child, and a monster not fit for determination, he likely couldn’t handle that power, which is why everything in Deltarune is so similar but so different to Undertale like the characters roles and relationships. It would also explain why characters like the amalgams have died, because the experiments would’ve never happened 

Kris is an interesting part. Since Kris is the only human (just like we were in the Underground) and we don’t see Chara or Frisk appear, I think the in Asriel confusion, he accidentally created a brand new person when trying to create Chara from Frisk. Of course, since he didn’t erase things, only remake them, Frisk and Chara are still alive. Maybe they’re part of Kris’s soul, maybe they’re in the void with Gaster and Dess or maybe we just haven’t seen them yet and I’m wrong - who knows? It’s why Kris looks like a fusion of the two, and if Kris is spelt Chris, it’s also a perfect amalgamation of their names.

I think it’s possible that the new timeline was created we we inhabited Kris body, not from the beginning as kids. Every memory anybody has has just been fabricated for the timeline.

If Asriel is some kind of god that oversees the timeline, it would explain why we don’t see him in world. He possibly just created the college story to explain it away.

Problem is, if Asriel can control everything, what about the Knight? Why is the knight there? Why are they creating the Dark Worlds? 

The Problem of the Dark Worlds:

Gonna get a bit meta here TwT

I think the Dark Worlds are created to restore balance. Like I said before, he didn’t erase the timeline, just changed it beyond recognition. Undertale couldn’t exist without the separation between humans and monsters, it would mean the main character has no purpose. You can’t have a game with no rules, after all. 

So

The dark world are created to replace the Underground. Instead of Humans and Monsters, it’s Light and Dark. It’s the same story - human falls into a new world with new people, either makes friends or kills them all, either way they get back to where they came from.

There’s just one problem…

That now leaves the age old question of: Who is the Knight?? It could be someone that would remembers the previous timeline in order to know that there has to be balance, or maybe they’re trying to put the timeline back how it was. Now of course, when it comes to timeline shenanigans, Asriel, Frisk and Chara are the first names I think most of us think of. So: is any of them the Knight? Could they just want things back the way the were? These ideas are enforced by the fact Queen said anyone can open a fountain if they are determined enough, which again, sounds a lot like Asriel, Chara and Frisk.

Other Notes:

Hopes and Dreams (not just Asriel’s theme, but The God of Hyperdeath’s theme specifically) appears several times throughout the soundtrack in both Chapter One and Two, it’s clear that Asriel is definitely going to be an important character. 

There are some hints to Undertale itself as well, mainly the fact that you can find Ariel’s design for a final game boss is a “creature with giant rainbow wings” - sound familiar?

The Delta Rune symbol is scattered all over the place, but since it wouldn’t symbolise freedom from the Underground, it shouldn’t be that important, yet it appears in both the Light World and the Dark World

[acaciapines]

as someone who’s very excited to read your Dess raises Kris AU, something that i’m really excited for is the dynamic between Dess and Chara! From the little excerpt we saw of them in the past i’m so curious as to how they’re relationship functions / how it’ll effect Kris growing up and such. If it isn’t too much to ask, could you go a bit in depth as to how they ‘work’ in a sense?

jkegkjdfgdf IT MEANS SO MUCH THAT UR EXCITED.....WOW.....like i am too its just so fun to know other people are!!

and! yeah so. i go into them a lot in this post here where i said. a lot of what my ideas are right now (and its said better lol) but i can for sure talk about them forever and ever and ever. most relationship of all time.

under the cut cause Oh My God it was not supposed to be this long.

so!!! i think a lot of how dess and chara work is that as time goes on it becomes increasingly obvious that They Do Not, actually. like, the way i see dess is that she is very much a person who needs to be on the move--she cannot stay in one place. that just...isnt who she is, and its stifling, and she HATES being weighed down. and kids, uh, sorta do that to you lol. vs chara, who like...has defined xirself around this role xe took up, 'cause the huge difference between them is that chara chose to have frisk and dess just sorta ended up with kris, right? so thats one point they arent ever going to like, understand the other one on.

so a lot of what leads them to deciding to stick together is this sense of loneliness they both feel...dess for being someone who is always on the move has also always had people with her: azzy, for one, but i think shes also the sort of people who makes a lot of like, surface-level friendships? i think shes A Lot and most people never get to know her that well, but like...chara DOES. and vice-versa for chara: people never bother to get to know xir, but dess WANTS TO. dess really truly cares about xir and xir life and who xe is which is very new for chara. cause before this all xe's had is frisk who is. literally a two year old and doesnt have any other choice lol.

theyre both people who have been dealt a poor hand in life in regards to dark world bullshit, something they cant exactly get help with through like, traditional means. they meet when theyre both super young--iirc dess is 18, chara 21? 22?--and yknow, raising a kid at that young an age isnt the most common experience. dess has run away from home, basically, and chara's a college dropout with a biological family xe never want to see again...neither of them have anybody else! they dont have any help! so they bond over that, a lot. its like...seeing someone Like You for the first time in your entire life.

and all that said its the kids thing that really throws a wrench into everything.

because dess cant stay still, right? she cant. shes not wired for it. but chara does, and she trusts chara, and chara doesnt mind watching kris, so dess doesnt feel bad leaving them with xir. but. a day becomes a week. week a few weeks, a month, a few months. as time goes on dess coming home grows more and more sparse. but theres this sense of like...chara doesnt really know who xe is, anymore, outside of this family xe has? outside of being a parent and spouse? so to chara, to leave dess is like, unimaginable. dess is xir person. dess loves xir, which is something xe cannot really comprehend as a loveless aromantic, but having never been loved in xir entire life (chara had a Bad childhood lets just say) its like...dess chooses xir. and sure, shes gone a lot, but when she does come home, her home is XIR. her home is chara. its gloriously dizzying.

and dess does feel the same way!!! dess never really means to leave chara for so long, she just...loses track of time. hates being Needed by kids in any way more than a cool aunt they see occasionally. funnily enough she gets on with frisk better because frisk doesnt really expect a mom out of her. (that isnt to say its returned lol kris likes dess wayyyyy more than frisk does. but for dess its easier to be around frisk cause they dont expect anything). if the kids werent a thing chara and dess would actually work a lot better--chara is a lot less adventurous and likes staying back and tending to things, but without frisk to like, REALLY cement that xe'd enjoy going out with dess, probably not into dark worlds but travel might be nice. and dess wouldn't feel so much pressure, if its just chara, 'cause chara kind of just likes dess for who she is. so for just-chara, dess could stay. dess is used to people wanting her to be someone else--her mother, her father, hell, even AZZY, who like...he never acted on it, but he had a crush on her for their entire friendship. she knows he'd rather she return those feelings.

but chara GETS HER. chara cares for her in a way that doesnt want her to become something she isnt--its why they get married!! dess never felt romantic love, and still doesnt, but its chara who makes her go--oh. oh, so i think i know why people might get married, actually. its saying--youre my person, and chara is her person. and vice-versa, of course. dess is this light chara never had.

but. of course. they have two kids.

which. complicates things. dess puts chara first--she LOVES chara, loves xir in every single way she can feel love. but chara...chara cares about dess, a lot. its why xe's really blind to a lot of xir faults for a while...because thats dess. xe doesnt know where xe would be without dess. but chara is a parent. frisk and kris do come first.

the kids are like, aware of this. frisk is very much aware of this--they're younger than kris but they dont have these rose-colored glasses about dess, and they sort of notice, how much of a toll it takes on chara to be a single parent, essentially, still. dess sends money back--she IS sort of the breadwinner lol, turns out selling weird dark world things is sometimes actually a viable career--but she doesnt, like, parent. when she comes home shes a friend. but not a parent.

kris fights with chara a lot. idealizes dess. its that idea that the parent who has to be the PARENT, be the one to say no, be the one to deal with all the crying and meltdowns and just general messiness of raising another human being, is the one that also gets the most flack. dess is never around! which is hard, but it also means she never messes up. at least in kris's eyes, lol.

for frisk and kris dess really is the one thing that like, gets in between all else. its the wound they all keep opening again, because shes never around, and it hurts. whenever she comes back and stays for a week when she said a month the kids know how sad chara gets!! how lonely xe is! but kris writes it off because dess will come back, and frisk grows bitter. its the one thing the two dont talk about because its the one thing that fractures their sibling relationship. every serious fight the two have is in some way about dess.

the entire reason why noelle and kris end up meeting? because kris thinks that if they prove themself as brave like dess, and dive into and close a dark world like she does, she'll stay longer this time. but of course all that does is get them stuck.

dess never does things maliciously. she does, really, truly, care about chara, kris, frisk. but she also just...does things. she never looks before she leaps. she shies away from facing consequences. and thats like...the sort of thing you CANT do, when youve got kids. but she never wanted them. she never meant to take kris.

she's just. in too deep. and chara does NOT hold her accountable which doesnt help. it would be best for the kids if chara got a divorce but. chara cant do that. xe cannot be alone again.

OKAY THAT WAS A LOT. uh. if you (general) wants to know more!! hit me up!!! tho i will say i'll have more to say about other relationships lol, i think i've said most of what i can able dess&chara right now. BUT I AM ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT THIS AU I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ON HOW IT CHANGES THINGS--

[acaciapines]

AAAIAAUAWAUWUWAUOUAGH?!

DESS AND CHARA! DESS AND CHARA! DESS AND CHARA! FRIENDSHIP!!!

DESS! FUCK YEAH SHES FIGURING SHIT OUT

I SEND THIS IN THE HOPES OF RECEIVING A NICE LONG RANT ABT IT :DDDDD

DESS AND CHARA I WILL GIVE YOU A LONG RANT.

ok so we dont get chara's entire backstory in i know im not well and its not like. important to the plot so i dont have it all figured out BUT the basis of xir is that chara n frisk came from a like, super shitty family situation, and so when chara turned 18 xe took frisk and basically said 'fuck this we're out' and thus became a single parent at the age of 18 with literally no support whatsoever. frisk was like, 3-4 at this time.

anyways things went ok for a while up until oh no! frisk, who is now like, 6-8, falls into a dark world, and chara goes after them, and this dark world was like, sorta made by the both of them together? it basically reflects their fears, and chara's had a lot to do with hatred of xir parents for putting xir into this situation where xe had to grow up way too fast, and basically raise a kid with no idea how to do that, and so there was also some resentment towards frisk mixed in there, which chara never explicitly like, told frisk, but frisk was sorta able to pick up in the ways xe acted, at times.

but! they were both able to work together and sorta come to terms w things...chara does really really love frisk and wants whats best for them, and wanted to keep them sorta sheltered from everything they had to go through, yknow? but this dark world made them grow closer n have a much healthier relationship, and from there chara sorta bounced around on a few places set up specifically for people who had gone to dark works (this is the forum dess also found), mainly bc xe wanted help for frisk, and then when xe learned about other people who had fallen into dark worlds, particularly kids, xe wanted to help them, too--basically chara dislikes most humans and honestly just adults in general (xe has. a lot of self-hatred issues as well but xir getting better about that) but has always had a soft spot for kids, and since a lot of kids fall into dark worlds...thats where xe wanted to help.

so that's chara's story in this universe. and then xe met dess, and they at first weren't actually like...great friends? they were like, acquaintances, and chara helped dess bc thats what xe does, but when kris n noelle came to xir shop and chara learned that dess lowkey abandoned her siblings xe were like oh well fuck you actually. bc chara went through shit but even at xir lowest they never abandoned frisk. (some of this was also directing hatred at xirself for the resentment xe felt towards frisk onto another target so xe didn't have to deal w it <3)

but when dess started to go to therapy she reached back out to chara bc xe were sorta the only person she could think of that had gone through something similar, and chara and her actually became real friends bc chara sorta like...was more able to see that one dess was trying to do better now and two chara XIRSELF had for sure fucked up in the past, and if xe were able to give xirself the chance to try again, xe can give that to dess, too. and now they're buddies! asriel for sure meets chara at one point and is lowkey intimidated by xir bc xe has xir life together in a way asriel won't ever have kdngdfg.

[acaciapines]

Hi, yeah, me again - I have another long ask -

So first off I read "a daemon, a Daemon" (can't use that combined letter on my dumbass tablet sorry) and I just. Love it?? A lot?? Brilliant, truly wonderful, love it to actual bits. And it got me thinking. I like your unique take on Daemons (I have my own unique take on their creation specifically that I want to share at some point) and I would like to get you thinking of something, if you'll bear with me. So:

Let's talk Daemon au. For Deltarune.

Kris, a "human", doesn't have a Daemon. Neither does ("human") Dess, of course. Nor, unsurprisingly, anyone else in Hometown, because they're all monsters, right? And monsters keep their souls inside their bodies, like sensible people.

When Kris finds out about the... human thing, and discover that they're like Dess in that way (as per my last ask), the biggest and most convincing factor to them is that they don't have a Daemon. Because monsters don't have Daemons. Right? That's why Kris doesn't have a Daemon. Right?

Right?

(Incidentally, yes - that's entirely correct. They genuinely are a monster soul mistakenly born into a human body, just like Dess. It really is the case that they don't have a Daemon because they never were going to have one in the first place, because they're not human at all and their soul is already inside their body. But it causes a lot of anxiety and species dysphoria for a hot minute.)

Eventually, they do make peace with it, kind of. They're a monster, so they don't have a Daemon. Obviously. And since they don't have a Daemon, and no one else does either, it doesn't really matter much. They're no different to anyone else in Hometown. It's just the way it is.

And then - and then, one day, they wake up without control of their body. And as the thing possessing them gets up, a shape of - something darts underneath their jumper, a sparkle of gold making the thing smaller than it was before. It's a - a Daemon, it has to be. Only Daemons have golden Dust like that, only Daemons can change shape, change size. And Daemons are human souls. Which means - if they can't move on their own, then - that means -

A human is possessing them, and that human has a Daemon... But then... What part of the human is controlling Kris...?

Because the soul - well, the soul is under their jumper, then under their cape, then on their shoulder and in the air and carrying them on its back. The soul is talking to Ralsei, trying to catch up with Susie, joking around with Lancer, twisting and twirling above and between the Darkners. The soul is changing shape with clouds of golden Dust; now a red deer, now a ferret, now a doberman, now a pied crow, now a dragonfly, now a clouded leopard. The soul is there, present, visible. The soul is the Daemon.

So what the hell is controlling Kris?

aww im glad you liked it! a daemon, a dæmon is probably one of my most favorite things i've written recently--feel free to hit me up if you want any extras on it specifically! i've been writing a lot of deltarune recently but my one true love is and always will be daemons. and for a daemon, a dæmon specifically, there will be more of it one day! well, kinda--originally i wanted to write a sequel, but my idea would require waaaaaay too much explaining of daemon-stuff to an audience that it would take away from my main theme of the story (chara learning to accept flowey for who he is, not who he maybe, at one point in time, was), so now it's just a general undertale fic, though like: my frisk and chara characterization is identical to a daemon, a dæmon, 'cause, uh....canon frisk and chara ARE an amalgamate of a person, they just define it differently since they aren't living in a world with daemons. also you can pry xe/xir chara who's nicknamed frisk milkweed from my cold dead hands

(and as a side note: no worries with not being able to type æ! whenever i wrote that fic i had to have it copy-pasted so dfngdfg i decided to do it knowing it would make my life harder).

and ooooh i do love your take on a deltarune daemon au! i think we see kris a tad differently--i don't see them as 'a monster soul in a human body,' more as a monster who happens to look like a human--ie, yes, maybe they are, genetically, a human, but they do not identify as one, and in an ideal world they just--are a monster. nothing else matters.

but! love this take. if you ever did write it i'd love to see where it is going--what IS controlling kris, indeed? i think daemons from the perspective of someone who doesnt want one would be fascinating, and i really love the angle of this daemon acting, for all intents and purposes, like kris's daemon. does that make it their daemon? who gets to make that choice: kris? the player? the daemon? are they all the same thing?

and, actually, going back to different takes on things--Guess Who Is Also Writing A Deltarune Daemon Au. it won't be out for a while but i've been chipping away at it since before deltarune chapter 2 even came out, so like. it deals with a kinda similar idea! except kris does have daemons in this verse, and like--what does that look like?

the player from the perspective of a daemon au is fascinating okay. in a world where you already might hate a part of yourself, how do you tell when there's an outside entity controlling you?

i also decided to make this one on twine kdjfgfdg this is the fangame i sometimes mention. i'm at a bit of a roadblock since i decided to add a battle system, but, yknow what, here, have a few sneak peeks:

i'm particularly proud of my battle setup. that took a WHILE to figure out. no i haven't coded the actual battle yet but its fine shhh i have my list of variables and elseifs i need.