#and that's not even getting into how they completely butchered dorne

[tibby]

got was already shaky in s4 but it fell off when d&d decided to twist character motivations and forgo any internal logic so sansa could be raped by ramsay

yeah i was just thinking about how like. a lot of people were shocked that it turned out got was anti feminist bc of what happened to dany as if it hadn't aggressively hated women for years. like this was a show that looked at its source material (which already had. countless acts of sexual assault within it) and decided that. hm. women aren't being violently assaulted or being murdered enough. better completely change this character's storyline so now she can be raped because her actress turned eighteen. let's have one of the few male characters is the show who abhors violence towards women rape his sister. oh this actress no longer wants to do nude scenes? time to have her character tied to a bed and violently killed.

[what-the--curtains]

There Are No Wolves In the Desert

( Oberyn Martell x f!reader, Robb Stark x f!reader)

Part 1 - The Wolf and The Outsider

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Summary: The series of events that have lead to you being in Dorne and why you can never return home.

Authors notes: Oberyn is not in this chapter but he will be in all subsequent chapters! This part is mainly context corner to build up the character! The reader is a distant relative of the Targaryens but I only mention hair colour and eye colour everything else will remain non- descript! Let me know if you want to be tagged (or untagged) in this story 😊😊

Tw: Swearing, violence, mentions of and allusion to sex (none depicted), war, murder the usual GOT stuff, major character death (I wonder who it could be👀👀)

Word count: 5.7k

Tagged: @evyiione

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kings landing

Cersei tilts her head, eyes thinning as she gazes out over kings landing, the moon illuminating the gold plated roofs of the upper class, the stench of the poor unable to reach her here. Jamie sits on the bed she had shared with her late husband, slowly re-donning the white armour of the king's guard. He turns watching as the summer breeze blows the ends of her golden hair. His shin guard is clipped into place just as three short knocks sound out against the wooden door, filling the quiet air of the night. Sighing loudly Jamie stands up to answer the door, a smile forming on Cersei’s lips as she trunks to greet the visitor.

“Littlefinger, to what do we owe the displeasure,” Jamie asks, sarcasm dripping off every word.

“Funny… I thought knights usually waited outside the bedchamber of those they swore a sacred oath to protect,” he queries smiling, the candlelight illuminating his prominent front teeth.

“Is it done,” Cersei asks through her teeth, tiring of the man’s desperate attempts to hold some semblance of power.

“Yes. Not a soul left alive that isn’t loyal to house Baratheon... or is Lannister perhaps more apt. The north is ours for the taking now the young wolf has fallen, and Sansa is under control here.”

“What of his wife?” she asks, walking towards a nearby table, decanting wine into a goblet turning with eyebrows raised. Littlefinger was not the only one in Kings landing with ears everywhere. She had heard a rumour, one she wished to squash as soon as she can.

“His widow, you mean,” Jamie states from the door frame, dissatisfied at being left out of the conversation.

“Gone, left in the wee hours of the morning from what I heard,” Cersei says, eyes staring into Littlefinger’s, locked in a strategic game of mental chess.

“So she’s alive, ” Jamie adds, despite his previous statement being ignored.

“Not for long,” Littlefinger states , brushing him off.

“Who saw her leave?” Cersei demands, a hint of concern slipping through as she swirls her wine around in the glass.

“No one left alive,” Littlefinger reassures

“So she's...” Cersei begins,

“She’s set to land in Dorne two days from now, she will be dealt with when she arrives. She is…inconsequential.” Littlefinger finishes.

“And so ends the reign of the wolves,” Jamie remarks, as Cersei raises her glass toasting the gods.

Dorne (2 days later)

You watch the docks appear along the horizon as the ship begins to reduce its speed. The sea spray from the trip spattered across your skin was yet to dry, cooling you off, as the southern sun bares down onto you. You lick your lips, the salty taste leaves you parched in a heat the likes of which you’d never known. You’d never been to Dorne, though you’d heard stories of it’s fair weather, people and architecture, and you were eager to see if they held true. You’d heard the wine here was the sweetest the world had to offer, you planned on returning home with some, even if Dorne was merely a stopover. It was not a honeymoon you were here for, no you were here to complete a task of utmost importance. You came in search of the so-called dragon queen at the behest of your husband. He wanted to see if the rumours were true and if they were he hoped to make an ally of her. He had sent you in hopes that your shared lineage, though distant, would work in his favour. The Targaryens held family in high regard, especially with so few of them remaining. You smile as the shore comes into view, the birds above singing to your arrival. The golden hues of the late afternoon sun paint the tents of the markets in the docks. A sense of bliss rolls over you as the crew ties the ship to the dock. It would be one of the last moments of peace you would know for some time. Your feet make contact with the ground, legs wobbling slightly at being back on solid ground. You stumble slightly and a man with a blue beard catches your elbow.

“Winter is coming,” he whispers and you look up as he discreetly passes you a note. You open it. The letter is long and the script rushed, but seven words stand out ‘the King in the North has fallen’ the sheet slips from your fingers and you drop to your knees. “Quick, we haven’t much time,” he says dragging you up, as the first arrow pierces the sky, hitting the captain of your ship in the neck.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Winterfell, 7 years prior (age 17)

You had always stood out in the north, a caveat of the family you were born into, all of you were outsiders here. Your grandfather was a Targaryen, second cousin to the mad king and when war broke out he led a small rebellion that tried to push back the Baratheon troops storming the capitol, but to no avail. Your father and his brothers were there that day, fighting alongside him, but they were outnumbered, and no amount of skill would keep the combined Starks and the Baratheon forces at bay. After the capitol was taken, your grandfather was hanged and your grandmother took your father and his brother and feld while Robert butchered any descendents of the Targaryen line that would weaken his claim to the throne. Your father had split from his family opting to head north, while they trekked south. He never saw them again. Upon his arrival in Winterfell he built a small homestead outside the city walls and sought work, thankfully the distinctive hair and eye colour had skipped him and he could blend in with the northerners. He found work as a stone mason, crafting formidable architecture admired and paid for by the nobility. The payments allowed him to move up the social ladder and while he remained in the forest he had gained the respect of the elite and was accepted as one of them. His hands soon grew tired of creating. They craved the weight of a sword and so he gave up masonry and offered his services to Ned Stark. Your father became a confidant to the King in the North as he moved up through the ranks. He ended up training many of the soldiers, and for a while, even Ned’s own sons. His proximity to the crown brought him into the path of your mother.

A ball was held in celebration of their eldest child's first name day and your mother was in attendance representing the Tyrells. He spotted her across the room, and to this day he swears the sun shone down on her despite being inside a hall. He approached her that night and they married during the long summer, your brother Illirion was born a year later, then a year after that it was your turn. Their final child, your youngest brother Rhaevar was born two years after you, thus completing your family unit. While the honeyed eyes and dark toned hair of the Tyrells presented well with your brothers, the Targaryen traits that had initially skipped your father came through in your genetic composition. Your hair was as white as the snow that came to the north during the winter, and your eyes a lilac similar to the foxgloves that grew in the spring. You attended a local school until you reached the age where girls were no longer allowed to study. Whilst there you heard whispers from the other children. Every now and then a comment of “murderer” or “traitor” would be shot your way, much to your confusion. It wouldn’t be until years later than your parents would tell you why such comments were made. After school ended officially you continued your education at home and studied the methods of healing that your mother had been trained in while in Highgarden.

Your father insisted all his children learn how to defend themselves, the north was a dangerous place after all, and the threat of war loomed large. The stability between kingdoms was teetering, it had been peaceful for too long, a storm was coming. You’d proven to be of high talent, had it not been for your eldest brother's size you would have been the strongest fighter in the family. Illirion married at 18 to a noble girl of high status, and it wasn't long after that you lost many of your friends to marriage. Some of the pairing were good, some bad and some even for love. Despite being propositioned a few times, you had no interest in being a bride.Your parents did not mind now that your brother had secured a wife and would be able to care for you once they passed. Your father also had it on good authority that you all were to be cared for so long as a Stark sat at Winterfell.

You were acquainted with the family since childhood, though outside of parties you rarely saw them. During the gatherings you and Sansa often gossiped together and Arya would sneak you into the courtyard and beg you to train her. The time spent with them was greatly cherished. Their brothers were often gone during such events, off showcasing their prowess to girls of higher status than you, women who would one day be their wives. Little did you know, Jon and Robb had been told to stay away from you so as not to ruin your reputation. That rule had been followed until one day when a particularly cruel comment from a noble girl sent Arya running directly into your path.

You were out tracking a wolf that had killed one of your family's horses. It wasn’t revenge you sought, but its attack on your homestead meant it was getting closer to town, and growing far too bold for your liking. You’d stopped your trek once you realized it was headed back towards the wall. Approaching your house you see Arya sitting on a log outside your house near the fire pit. Her feet swinging, intermittently kicking at the dirt below.

“Arya?” you question placing your gear down on the ground as she turns to face you, her nose running, eye slightly red.

“Is Rhaevar around? I wish to play” she demands, her childlike nature apparent now more than ever.

“I’m afraid he’s gone off in search of the children of the forest, but perhaps we can find something to do together?” you offer sitting beside her, she was upset, evidently so.

“I have no want to stitch,” she huffs, causing you to laugh at her attempt to insult you.

“Good neither do I. I’m no good at it anyways,” you admit and she looks up at you “Well what do you wish, Arya? Perhaps I can be of assistance.”

“I wish to know how to shoot my arrow so it hits the target every time. I don’t care what Robb says, Jon thinks I can do it so I want to try.”

“Well, I can help with that, come I’ll show you a trick. You’ll hit it every time. Prove your eldest brother wrong,” your comment earns a rare grin from the youngest Stark daughter. After a few goes she gets the hang of it, hitting your practice targets one after the other.

“By the gods,” you chuckle, you’d never seen such natural talents before. Caught up in your admiration of her gift you fail to catch her turning to aim at a farther target still. The arrow soars through the air as two horses approach your homestead, the arrow only just missing them.

“Arya!” you shout, grabbing her arm “You must be careful!” you exasperate as she looks up to you her mouth ajar. The sound of the horses fast approaching.

“Get behind me,” you murmur, pushing in front of her and aiming the bow true.

“It’s Robb!” she shouts, pushing against you attempting to make a run for it. Despite her efforts to throw you off balance you manage to grab her arm, dropping your weapons in the process.

“Why are you running?” you ask, not releasing your grip on her scrawny arm.

“Because I don’t fit in!” she finally admits.

“Well a secret Arya, no one fits in, we're all different, it's what keeps life interesting and what will keep you alive in your years to come,” you say watching as she stops struggling a softness suddenly coming over her features.

“She said I had a face like a dog,” she whispers, chewing on her lip, eyes down. The cruelty of children was always surprising to you.

“Well I’d find it hard to find someone who does not see the tenderness of a pup, or the strength and beauty of a dire wolf. Either way, You have talents, beyond what beauty can measure, ones that will never abandon you,” you reassure. She sniffs and looks up at you offering a rare smile. You see her shift back into her tough persona, the scowl returning to her face as she runs towards the horses belonging to her brother and who you assumed must be his ward Theon. You watch the eldest Stark, now two years your senior drop down allowing Theon to help Arya, as he strides towards you.

“We’d be lucky to have you in our ranks, if you can teach her to nearly take my head off from a mile away,” he laughs, easing your nervousness slightly, his northern accent heavier than you had remembered.

“I did remind your sister to be more careful lest she be tried for treason, or worse yet, get me tried for treason. As for my services, they are always at the will of the Starks, if you wish me to join the army who am I to refuse,” you say, tilting your head and offering him a smile.

“Women are not allowed in our ranks, lest of all those who look like you,” he charms, an unexpected compliment from a man you rarely got the opportunity to speak with.

“Not yet, but rules are meant to be broken after all my Lord.” You retort, eyes meeting his steel grey gaze causing an unexpected chill to run down your spine.

“Are they?” he laughs, the warmth of it causing a sudden heat to rise within you, counteracting his gaze.

“You should remind your mother of that when you return Arya to her,” you offer, as he hands you the arrow that almost took off his head.

“Thank you for returning my sister, wolves have been prowling about, heaven forbid they got to her before us,” he says, concern etched in his face.

“The wolves have moved north, I do not believe they will return this way, and Arya is stronger than you give her credit for,” you assure, his brows raising at your competence.

“I know, and I think she does too, I fear she’ll outlive us all,” he offers, rubbing the back of his neck, the two of you standing there for a moment, the smirk that usually danced replaced by a nervous grin. His head dips down before turning back to the horse, but he stops one last time swivelling round to face you.

“My lady,” he calls after you.

“Yes my lord,” you say, turning back to face him.

“I look forward to our next meeting,” he offers sincerely.

“As do I,” you say curtseying in such a way to make him smile before you both head back towards your respective homes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2 years later (age 19)

“What is it?” you ask your father as you lay down your quiver and the pair of small pheasants you’d brought home for dinner. He takes a long drag of his pipe, gaze glued to the treeline. “Father tell me?” you stress, knowing he only ever smoked when bad news had arrived.

“Illirion, he’s...” He stammers and drops his head letting out a strangled sob. You shake your head at the suggestion. Your brother had gone down to kings landing a week ago to serve as a bodyguard to Ned Stark who had been summoned at the behest of King Robert Baratheon. Arya and Sansa had gone with them, leaving Catelyn and the boys in Winterfell, Robb currently ruling in his place.

“Ned Stark would never allow…” you begin, sure your father had once again fallen trap to the rumour mill.

“He’s dead, they’re all dead, all of them...” he whispers, dropping his head to his hands.

“What happened tell me everything,” you stress, pushing your own sentiments aside for the moment.

“Beheaded, Ned for treason, for the murder of Robert Baratheon, his greatest friend, unlikely story. They killed your brother as Ned’s head fell. Arya, is missing, presumed dead, Sansa is a prisoner, to be wedded to that horrible snot nosed inbred Joffrey.” He continues in fragmented sentences.

“Mother?” you question.

“She’s in bed still, hasn’t left, I dare not tell her the worst of it,” he admits tear streaked eyes meeting yours.

“What the worst of it?” you ask, unable to think what could possibly be worse. “Lean on me father, there is no else left for you to confide in, lend me some of the burden,” you stress rubbing his arm in encouragement.

“War is upon us and each family must provide a soldier. Since my knee… I am no longer able to fight, the Starks know this. So your youngest brother…” he starts, but a sob catches in his throat stopping him.

“He can’t go, he’s too…” you begin, swallowing as you try to think of the right word.

“Soft” your father offers.

“No, he’s just not skilled enough, at least not in the ways of the sword. Skilled as he is as a mason he wouldn’t last a minute on the battlefield,” you pause, only one path was clear to you “Let me go in his place,” You say, before you have time to process what you had just offered to do.

“No,” your father says without hesitation.

“Let me go and you may end this life with two of three children. If he goes, I will be the only one left and I could not bear it,” you say pushing back tears at the thought of losing another brother.

“Your mother...” he begins

“Knows I was the best fighter. I had the best teacher in all the seven kingdoms after all,” you say nudging him with your elbow. He places a reassuring hand on your shoulder, before pulling you into a tight embrace.

“When do I leave?” you ask.

“Tonight. It’s a good thing your brother isn’t tall, his armour will fit you, take this helmet. Do not remove it, keep your hood up, any trouble and cut off their cocks, or else I will.”

“I'll see you again, I swear it,” you state, with every intent of keeping your promise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The battle rages forward, men fall around you, but you refuse to meet a similar fate today. Your sword penetrates through the opening of a Lannister’s armour turning quickly to slice the backs of the knees of another soldier, both falling in tandem. You hear a horse whinny on your left and you turn to see Robb Stark fall from his horse becoming trapped beneath the dying creature. You weave throughout the battle towards him. Your blade intercepts the longsword of an enemy soldier just as it’s about to penetrate Robbs armour. You drop your shield to Robb and you push up against the attacker. Releasing your force he falls forward and Robb pushes the shield up hitting the man’s face swinging his head back. Grabbing the man by his hair you slit his throat. You drop your sword and pull Robb out from beneath the horse. He grabs your shoulders giving you nod before returning to the forefront of the battle. As the horn of retreat sounds you celebrate the victory with those around you, surviving the first of many attacks.

You're walking back to the tents when you hear a familiar voice call out to you.

“You, wait,” Robb demands, chuckling with those around him. You continue on your path hoping he was talking to someone else. “It is not wise to disobey your king.” He sounds out again, forcing you to turn towards him.

“Come now friend, we mean no harm. I wish to look upon the face of the man who saved me and invite him to ride alongside me.” he states.

“Perhaps he is too ugly to show his face, my lord,” one of his lieutenants states causing a laugh to erupt from the surrounding crowd of men except for Robb. Though a slight smile pulls at the corner of his mouth breaking the cold façade he’d donned since his father’s death. A moment passes then another until the silence is so prolonged you have no other option but to obey. Slowly you lift your helmet up your eyes meeting his for the first time in a year.

“A prize for the army, my lord?” one of the men questions, hungrily eyeing you up as he fervently steps towards you. Robb's arm stops him in his tracks and you draw your blade.

“Touch me and risk losing more than just your hand, I have fought alongside you. I am your equal. You will treat me as such,” you demand, your voice unwavering despite the uneasiness in your stomach.

“You have a cunt, you are not our equal, though perhaps in bed…” another from the crowd offers.

“Stop! Leave us” Robb orders, and the men retreat back towards the camp ground the sound of laughter and whistles picking up once out of range.

“I did tell you rules were meant to be broken,” you say, watching as he tries to suppress a smile.

“Well they certainly have been now” he chuckles, shaking his head in disbelief.

“Are you going to hang me, my lord? Or is it my King now?” you question, a bolder move than you should have felt comfortable making.

“To you it's Robb and no I am not going to hang you, but you are going to come with me,” he says offering you his arm which you brush by looking back at him to follow.

“How have you come to be here? Does your father know?” Catelyn stresses,eyes growing wide as she scans over you assessing the damage.

“My lady, yes, he does. You see when the war was announced and after my brother’s death, we knew someone from our family would have to fight. My father’s leg as you know isn’t... as it used to be, and my younger brother while talented in many ways, cannot hold a blade to save his life. My mother’s grief was already far too much for her to lose another child.” You say, eyes risking tears as she meets her gaze.

“So they sent you?” she explains to herself.

“Yes my lady I was the best fighter in the family, or the most skilled at least.”

“Well, we will not make your brother come to fight, but you cannot stay in the army,” she explains softly, hand running up and down your arms in reassurance.

“She saved my life today,” Robb interjects and Cat looks at you as you look at him.

“Then I am indebted to you.” She expresses.

“As am I,” Robb states the two of you not having dropped eye contact, much to the notice of Cat.

“Lady Catelyn, I am a capable fighter, but if you will not allow me to so, at least allow me to tend to the wounded or to serve you in some other manner. I am here after all, put me to use.” you say and she lets out a sigh.

“Well, if you believe yourself able to defend yourself, and if what my son says is true then I would be remiss to send you home, though you will not sleep out with the rest of the army, you will stay with me.” she says.

“And during the battle you will remain close to me,” Robb stresses “not for your protection, but for mine”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 year later (Age 20)

Robb watches as you kill another soldier, the sight never failing to impress him. You had remained close over the past year, both in and out of the battlefield. He kept you close at all costs, your company bringing him some semblance of joy, even in his darkest moments. Rumours swirled amongst the men and the other kingdoms, though nothing between the two of you had come to fruition. Due to the colour of your hair, the enemy soldiers had dubbed you the white wolf, in an attempt to link the Starks with the treacherous Targaryens. While the insinuations at your extracurricular activities with Robb pushed the narrative that he was impure, that northerners were savages, who did not abide by the values of the seven kingdoms.

As you wipe the blood from your eyes, an arrow catches you in the shoulder, the force knowing you back into a tree. Robb is at your side in record time, his hand stopping yours from pulling the weapon out.

“Medic!” he shouts, eyes not leaving yours.

“Go! you need to lead your people, I will be fine,” you emphasize and he shakes his head “Robb, it is a shoulder, nothing of importance lives there.”

“No but it is attached to something of the utmost importance.”

“Go you have a war to win,” you state as the medic helps you to your feet and brings you back across the line.

You sit in Robbs tent, despite your insistence at being treated in the same manner as the other soldiers, he had demanded you be brought there instead. A skilled nurse had removed the arrow from your shoulder just as you heard the rambunctious cheers of the men outside, victory had been secured. Unsurprising considering Robbs keen strategic mind, he was smarter than you'd have accredited him for in your youth. He enters the tent blood spatter still on his face, seeing you alive and fine he takes the moment to remove his armour. He pulls his undershirt off and walks to the water basin wiping himself clean of the sweat and grim coating his skin. Your eyes watch his bare skin intently, studying every scar, every freckle. He grabs a fresh cloth dunking it the basin and wringing it out before heading over to you. He kneels before you, staring up at you eyes telling you to drop the blood soaked rag currently held to your wound, and you oblige.

“I must confess I long hoped to share an intimate moment with you, though these circumstances are not as I imagined,” he says, gently dabbing at your wound, you smile at his concentration.

“And under what circumstances would you have hoped to be intimate with me, my king? At one of your fancy parties, in the secrecy of a barn, somewhere no one would know you had been with a Targaryen girl.” You ask trying to keep your eyes forwards and not at his muscular physique.

“Every man in Winterfell had dreamed of sharing a moment like that with you, though none have found any luck,” he says, standing up and walking back over to the basin.

“I have no need for a husband nor do I have the want to be wife,” you say, watching the muscles of his arm flex as he wrigns out the rag.

“and what about a queen?” he queries, as his hand braces against your thigh, continuing to clean your wound, his eyes still focused on the gash.

“Do you ask all your foot soldiers such bold questions,” you quip, laughing at the sheer absurdity of the situation.

“Only the ones naked in my chambers,” he retorts, eyes darting up a grin plastered to his face.

“A bare shoulder is hardly naked in your chambers,” you state, and he raises his eyebrows mischievously.

“My fondness for you was never allowed,” he admits, dabbing the cloth into a salve and applying it to the wound.

“Oh wasn’t it,” you ask as he looks up to you

“No, my mother feared one of us would ruin you,”

“A Targaryen In the north, perhaps it was fear of you boys being ruined.” you laugh, but when you look at him the tone has shifted.

‘When that arrow hit you, my feelings were confirmed, I no longer wish to be more than a few feet from you at any given moment. I wish to marry you. If you'll allow me”

“Don’t be stupid my king, you’re to be married to a princess from what I understand.”

“I'll be married to whom I please” he assures.

“Robb is that wise?” you question, unfamiliar with the high stakes games played with marriage.

“The Frey’s will recover besides, we’ve crossed their bridge already, and I have no love for anyone but you.”

“Love? We barely know each other,” you say.

“Only our whole lives,” he reminds you.

“I fear you’ll wake up tomorrow and regret your words, so I will not answer you tonight.”

“Then I will return to these chambers tomorrow morning and restate my intentions to make you my wife.”

“What will they say if you allow me to take your bed for the night?” you ponder aloud.

“I guess we shall see” he states, slinging his bloodied shirt over his shoulder.

“Goodnight my King” you offer, watching in amusement as he attempts to find the tents exit without turning around.

“It’s Robb. For you, it's always just Robb”

True to his word he returned the next day and asked again, and this time you accepted. You married a few days later under an old willow tree, with Catelyn and a few others standing witness. The morning after your wedding you awake in his chambers, the sun yet to rise. Robb snores faintly beneath you, the warmth of the fire sending a chill up your skin that had become exposed in the night. You scan over his features, a peacefulness you hadn’t before on his face. You reach over brushing the white patch of hair amongst the mass of soft brown curls on his head. As you do his eyes open looking over to you propping himself up on his elbow and learning over to kiss your forehead.

“What is it my love?” you ask, kissing his cheek, then his lips .

“I need you to do something,” he says, serious as always.

“What we just did wasn't enough, my king? How else may I please you tonight,” you offer hands dancing across his chest, he grins shaking his head slightly.

“You have pleased me in every way imaginable for the past year, and even more tonight. This favour isn't a pleasure of the flesh however, I need you to complete a task. You’re the only one I can trust,” he states.

“You shift up to face him, the furs falling off you slightly, “find the Targaryen girl. I wish to make an ally of her, to destroy the Lannister once and for all. You are likely the only family she has left, she may listen to you.”

“I'll do what I can, and I'll do it fast, I do not wish to be parted from you for long.” you admit as his hand traces over your back.

“Take this with you, that way i'll be protecting you even while we are apart,” he leans over grabbing his dagger, the one made for him by his father, offering it to you.

“Robb I…” you begin.

“Will return it to me a fortnight from now when you come back. I suggest we make the most of tonight, so you have another reason to return to me,” he states

“I'll always return to you, even in death,” you reassure and he wraps the blanket back over you pulling you tightly to his chest. And so as Robb took his seat in the halls of Walder Frey to watch his supposed bride marry another man, you were catching a boat destined for Dorne.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Present day (Age 21)

“Come with me now Lady Stark, your life depends on it,” the stranger says, pulling you to your feet and shuffling you into a nearby tavern ushering you quickly up the stairs. You see a pile of clothes laid out on the bed and immediately strip, all notions of decency erased in favour of time.

“You must disappear, make them think you are dead,” he says, averting his eyes as you change into clothes typical of local mercenaries.

“Who killed him, what happened?” you ask, needing some kind of answers.

“There is no time, and it's safer if you do not know.” He says eyes darting from you to the door.

“I have a right to..”

“The Freys betrayed you, everyone at the wedding is dead, you have no claim to Winterfell. The Lannisters have taken the North”

“Everyone at the wedding..” you echo, sitting on the bed

“Stay here..” the blue bearded stranger says, returning a few moments later with a cloak, sword and black dye in hand, placing them down and grabbing for the clothes and the dagger on the floor, Robbs dagger.

“That stays” you stress grabbingthe dagger from his reach.

“It’s too…” he starts

“It stays, it's all I have left of him,” you whisper harsher than intended, fighting back tears. He nods and you take it from him. You grab the dye from his hand and rub it through your hair, staining it a deep ember.

“Keep your eyes down, they're the only thing we can’t disguise,” he states

“Who are you, why are you helping me?” you question memorizing the man's face.

“You share a common enemy with powerful people. You have allies here. Goodbye Lady Stark I hope we meet again,” he says, and with a swift turn he exits the tavern leaving you alone with your thoughts. You wait a moment before donning the cloak and pulling up your hood. You walk out the tavern, putting as much distance between you and the docks as possible. Keeping your eyes down as men scoured the streets for the person you once were

[janiedean]

janie can you believe we haven't had new jaime/brienne content since 2011? 10 YEARS. Because grrm left them on a cliffhanger so all his "chapter releases" have had arya and arianne and tyrion BUT NOT JAIME AND BRIENNE. and even the show completely skipped their book stories. so we got a butchered version of braavos for arya and a butchered alayne stark for sansa and we saw bran becoming 3er but they completely eliminated lsh and gave us random stuff for jb (like the jaime goes to dorne and brienne at the window) SO WE HAVEN'T HAD ACTUAL JB CONTENT IN 10 YEARS. if they'd adapted lsh we might've seen a butchered version of their book arcs but we have absolutely no idea how he's planning on it going down!! how's brienne killing lsh? how's this whole thing gonna impact their relationship?? what do they do next??? jaime burned cersei's letter to follow brienne, how does c react if she ever hears of this? aaahhhhhhhhhhh

I CAN BELIEVE THAT BC I READ ADWD WHEN IT CAME OUT *CRIES* that said I mean.. I get why grrm doesn't wanna spoil that so I'll give him a pass and ofc the show did because we all know dnd couldn't bother actually gaf about catelyn nor their actual storylines but again after ten years of thinking about it my theory is that brienne brings him to ls but the moment she has an opening she stabs her instead in front of him, he's angry at first but then someone breaks to him that she was about to get hanged for him which I mean... the moment he realized someone was willing to die for him he's gonna do 2+2, then they prob go to the quiet isle to recover bc she's prob gonna be hurt in the process, sandor is there, they have to find sansa, 2+2 :)))))

how does c react if she ever hears of this?

I mean.... she already did and reacted X°D

"No one knows. We've had no further word of him. The woman may have been the Evenstar's daughter, Lady Brienne."

Her. The queen remembered the Maid of Tarth, a huge, ugly, shambling thing who dressed in man's mail. Jaime would never abandon me for such a creature. My raven never reached him, elsewise he would have come.

X°DDDD like... she didn't buy it X°D and idt she'd admit it if it was in front of her eyes sssoooo X°DDDDD

[intrepid-fictioneer-7]

On Whether the Books of A Song of Ice and Fire Will Have the Same Ending As the TV Show Game of Thrones

No.

Or rather, maybe, maybe not.

Seriously, we have no actual way to tell. For years, even before Season 8, many loved to proclaim, especially smugly if said to book readers that came to dislike GoT, that the show will obviously have the real ending out before the books ever finish, because GRRM told the showrunners the details of everything and how it will end in case the show overtook the books. And so you, the one critical of the show, will have to resign yourself that you will only get to see the canonical ending through the show.

And then the post-Season 3 changes piled up way too much for the showverse looking much like the books, reassuring the readers that the show had clearly become its own thing. And then Season 7 and Season 8 rolled around, and book readers felt vindicated, while show viewers were disappointed, saddened, or angry at how yet another the most popular show on television ended so badly.

Nowadays, not many still hold the old belief, most hoping that GRRM do something different. But many others still believe the endings will be the same, if only not with joy but with resignation this time.

After all, say some, didn't Isaac Hempstead Wright just confirm King Bran was a future plot development that GRRM told D&D? Making it one of the 3 twists GRRM told D&D (“three holy sh— moments” to quote them) that will definitely make it into the books, the other being Shireen's burning and Hodor's origin? Meaning many if not most things from the show's final season and ending will end up in the books?

I personally don't think so. Of course, the exact same ending has always been an unbelievable hyperbole, but even thinking most major plot points will be the same has me in doubts. As said earlier, a lot of storylines have been completely changed to the point that they are unrecognizable. Sansa's for example is vastly different from her show counterpart's due to taking another character's role and removing the central elements of her Vale storyline (notably Harry the Heir). The plotline of Aegon and the Golden Company has been completely cut when it would necessarily affect many major and minor characters. Arianne was cut and the Dorne storylines were butchered beyond recognition. The show created the character of the Night King.

So much has changed between the two, stating that the endings will share similar beats would be the same as saying the MCU's Infinity War/Endgame duology/pseudo-finale is the same ending as the ending to the Marvel comics' Infinity Gauntlet storyline simply because in both the Snap is undone. Which is ridiculous: both worlds have changed far too much for one to simply be a copy-paste of the other anymore.

The show and the books have become two completely separate universes, a "Westeros 1" and a "Westeros 2", as Bryan Cogman put it.

But what also makes me doubt are the dubious statements on the ending. So I have compiled many quotes on the ending of the series, from GRRM and D&D, to show just how not so clear-cut it is.

It should be noted that, as far as I can see, only Benioff really implied the ending would be the same:

Luckily, we’ve been talking about this with George for a long time, ever since we saw this could happen, and we know where things are heading. And so we’ll eventually, basically, meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going; there might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading towards the same destination. I kind of wish that there were some things we didn’t have to spoil, but we’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The show must go on […] and that’s what we’re going to do. I think the thing that's kind of fun for George is the idea that he can still have surprises for people even once they've watched the show through to the conclusion. There are certain things that are going to happen in the books that are different in the show, and I think people who love the show and want more—want to know more about the characters, want to know more about the different characters who might not have made the cut for the show—will be able to turn to the books. So that's where we stand.

—David Benioff (x)

And even then there are caveats about there being differences.

There is even more circumspection about the two endings in other interviews:

You’re now at a point where you’ve caught up with the books. What does that mean for the future? Benioff: [...] We’ve had a lot of conversations with George, and he makes a lot of stuff up as he’s writing it. Even while we talk to him about the ending, it doesn’t mean that that ending that he has currently conceived is going to be the ending when he eventually writes it. Weiss: It’s like looking at a landscape and saying, “OK, there’s a mountain over there, and I know that I’m getting to that mountain.” There’s an event that’s going to happen, and I know that I’m moving in the general direction of that event, but what’s between where I’m standing now and that thing off on the horizon, I’m not totally sure. I’ll know when I get there, and then I’ll see what the terrain looks like around me and I’ll choose my path once I get closer to it. He figures a lot of this stuff as he goes. He always says he’s a gardener, not an architect.

(x)

Benioff and Weiss always knew this would happen. So they met with the novelist in 2013, between Seasons 2 and 3, to sketch out what Martin calls “the ultimate developments” after the books and show diverge. The upshot, they say, is that the two can coexist. “Certain things that we learned from George way back then are going to happen on the show, but certain things won’t,” says Benioff. “And there’s certain things where George didn’t know what was going to happen, so we’re going to find them out for the first time too.”

(x)

From George himself, I have only ever seen more nuanced and ambiguous statements about the books' ending vs. the show's:

Let me reiterate what I have said before. How many children did Scarlett O'Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story. There have been differences between the novels and the television show since the first episode of season one. And for just as long, I have been talking about the butterfly effect. Small changes lead to larger changes lead to huge changes. HBO is more than forty hours into the impossible and demanding task of adapting my lengthy (extremely) and complex (exceedingly) novels, with their layers of plots and subplots, their twists and contradictions and unreliable narrators, viewpoint shifts and ambiguities, and a cast of characters in the hundreds. There has seldom been any TV series as faithful to its source material, by and large (if you doubt that, talk to the Harry Dresden fans, or readers of the Sookie Stackhouse novels, or the fans of the original WALKING DEAD comic books)... but the longer the show goes on, the bigger the butterflies become. And now we have reached the point where the beat of butterfly wings is stirring up storms, like the one presently engulfing my email. Prose and television have different strengths, different weaknesses, different requirements. David and Dan and Bryan and HBO are trying to make the best television series that they can. And over here I am trying to write the best novels that I can. And yes, more and more, they differ. Two roads diverging in the dark of the woods, I suppose... but all of us are still intending that at the end we will arrive at the same place. In the meantime, we hope that the readers and viewers both enjoy the journey. Or journeys, as the case may be. Sometimes butterflies grow into dragons.

—GRRM (x)

So when you ask me, "will the show spoil the books," all I can do is say, "yes and no," and mumble once again about the butterfly effect. Those pretty little butterflies have grown into mighty dragons. Some of the 'spoilers' you may encounter in season six may not be spoilers at all... because the show and the books have diverged, and will continue to do so. IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ALL FIVE SEASONS AND READ ALL FIVE BOOKS, STOP HERE! Just consider. Mago, Irri, Rakharo, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, Pyp, Grenn, Ser Barristan Selmy, Queen Selyse, Princess Shireen, Princess Myrcella, Mance Rayder, and King Stannis are all dead in the show, alive in the books. Some of them will die in the books as well, yes... but not all of them, and some may die at different times in different ways. Balon Greyjoy, on the flip side, is dead in the books, alive on the show. His brothers Euron Crow's Eye and Victarion have not yet been introduced (will they appear? I ain't saying). Meanwhile Jhiqui, Aggo, Jhogo, Jeyne Poole, Dalla (and her child) and her sister Val, Princess Arianne Martell, Prince Quentyn Martell, Willas Tyrell, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Lord Wyman Manderly, the Shavepate, the Green Grace, Brown Ben Plumm, the Tattered Prince, Pretty Meris, Bloodbeard, Griff and Young Griff, and many more have never been part of the show, yet remain characters in the books. Several are viewpoint characters, and even those who are not may have significant roles in the story to come in THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING.

GAME OF THRONES is the most popular television series in the world right now. The most pirated as well. It just won a record number of Emmy Awards, including the ultimate prize, for the best drama on television. It's an incredible production with an incredible cast and crew.

WINDS OF WINTER should be pretty good too, when it comes out. As good as I can make it, anyway. Which is a long way of saying, "How may children did Scarlett O'Hara have?" Enjoy the show. Enjoy the books. 

—GRRM (x)

WINDS will be different in some ways, but will parallel the show in others. At this point, there are probably a dozen characters who are dead on the show but alive in the books, so it would be impossible for the two to remain the same. (Also, of course, there are characters in the books who have never even existed on the show, like Victarion Greyjoy, Jon Connington, Penny, Arianne Martell... )

—GRRM (x)

The showrunners note that they’re not entirely sure of Martin’s future storylines anyway (“George discovers a lot of stuff while he’s writing,” Benioff says). But more surprising is that Martin is likewise somewhat in the dark on the show’s ending. “I haven’t read the [final-season] scripts and haven’t been able to visit the set because I’ve been working on Winds,” Martin reveals. “I know some of the things. But there’s a lot of minor-character [arcs] they’ll be coming up with on their own. And, of course, they passed me several years ago. There may be important discrepancies.”

(x)

Benioff and Weiss had to carve their own course for the past couple of seasons, after outpacing Martin’s writing. “I’ve been so slow with these books,” Martin says, with palpable pain. “The major points of the ending will be things I told them five or six years ago. But there may also be changes, and there’ll be a lot added.”

(x)

Anderson Cooper: When it clear they were catching up, you told them over-- a kind of an overarching future of where you saw the-- the last two books going in terms of plot? George R.R. Martin: Yes. And, you know, the major beats. I mean, obviously, we're talking here about a-- several days of story conferences taking place in my home in Santa Fe, New Mexico. But there's no way to get in all the detail, all the minor characters, all the secondary characters. The series has-- has-- been extremely faithful, compared to 97 percent of all television and movie adaptations of literary properties. But it's not completely faithful. And-- and it can't be. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons. Anderson Cooper: And in essence, what's-- by the time the series is finished and your other two books are finished, y-- essentially it's gonna be two se-- different-- George R.R. Martin: Yeah. Anderson Cooper: Two different versions. George R.R. Martin: But, you know, I think that's true of every adaptation. We got all these Spidermen. Is it Stan Lee's Spiderman from the comic books? They're-- they're similar, but they're also different. Things happen to one that never happen to the other. Things are resolved differently. The girlfriends are shuffled and reshuffled. The-- the primary beats are there, the character is there, but it's a question of-- what are the choices you make to tell the story, which are partially dictated by your-- your medium. Anderson Cooper: I mean, do you worry that some fans will have Dan and David's ending in-- in their mind's eye? Would that-- would that-- you know, would that be a disappointment to you? George R.R. Martin: I don't think Dan and Dave's ending is gonna be that different from my ending because of the conversations we-- we did have. But they may be on certain secondary characters, there may be big differences. And, yeah, some of the people will have that. There will be a debate, I'm sure. I think a lot of people, who-- say, "Oh, Dan and Dave's ending is better than the one George gave us. It's a good thing they changed it." And there will be a lot of people who say, "No. Dan and Dave got it wrong. George's ending is better." And they will all fight on the internet. And there will be debate. And-- that's fine. I mean, it-- you know, the worst thing for any work of art, be it a movie or a book is to be ignored. (LAUGH)

(x)

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different? Well… yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. And no. And yes. I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had six hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet. And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort… Book or show, which will be the “real” ending? It’s a silly question. How many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? How about this? I’ll write it. You read it. Then everyone can make up their own mind, and argue about it on the internet.

—GRRM (x)

There is a general sense that things may be subject to change and that the ending, besides certain points, is not set in stone. Definitely not the certain "same ending" some say it will be.

We will also recall that, as mentioned in some of the quotes above, in an interview with The Guardian in 2011, GRRM described himself as a "gardener" type of writer who works out the story as he goes, as opposed to an "architect," who plots out all the details ahead of time, a characteristic which may also play out in changes in the ending notes he gave D&D ("George discovers a lot of stuff while he’s writing"). We can see this in how, for example, he came up recently with a big twist about a non-show character while writing Winds.

So I hope, in having written all this, that I have given some hope to the most pessimistic about the series' end, because I have seen many, especially in light of how the show wrote Daenerys, decide to repudiate the book series and accuse GRRM of what D&D did. While I want to make clear that I don't think GRRM is flawless, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt based on his strong writing throughout the books series, so that at the very least he be judged on his own merits and own faults whenever Winds (tentatively 2020?) and Dream come out. I urge people to not conflate GRRM and D&D.

And most importantly:

Q: "Early on, one critic described the TV series as bleak and embodying a nihilistic worldview, another bemoaned its “lack of moral signposts.” Have you ever worried that there’s some validity to that criticism?"

GRRM: "No. That particular criticism is completely invalid. Actually, I think it’s moronic. My worldview is anything but nihilistic."

(x)

The number one question people ask me about the series is whether I think everyone will lose—whether it will end in some horrible apocalypse. I know you can’t speak to that specifically, but as a revisionist of epic fantasy—
 GRRM: I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire—brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: “Why is this here? The story’s over?” But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.

[...]

I think you need to have some hope…we all yearn for happy endings in a sense. Myself, I’m attracted to the bittersweet ending. People ask me how Game of Thrones is gonna end, and I’m not gonna tell them … but I always say to expect something bittersweet in the end,” he said. “You can’t just fulfill a quest and then pretend life is perfect.

(x)

I urge my readers to have some hope. I know I will.

[oadara]

A friend of mine is also a fan of GOT and we were discussing the shitty season 8 writing. I brought up the topic of racism, specifically regarding the death of Missandei, and she didn't seem to see the issue about it. She said that "the whole issue of Missandei dying had nothing to do with race or that she was a woman. It was just an important part of Dany changing the way she did. It was part of the storyline. I wouldn't have read that deeply into it". (1/3)

She further stated that “if we were to apply that everywhere then any person of colour would be exempt from dying and it wouldn’t be about the characters or story anymore it would be abour race”. As a person of colour myself, who emigrated to a country with a white majority, it was difficult to find positive representation on mainstream media. (2/3)

And with her dismissing that point so easily, I wonder whether I’m just being too overly sensitive about this issue? Especially since it’s coming from a friend. (3/3)

Hello,

I’m sorry this happened to you because it’s very unfortunate. I understand this person is your friend but that doesn’t exclude them from being ignorant, and frankly, their response to your concerns was extremely ignorant both of history and literature. 

First, we should talk about representation. By season 8 of Game of Thrones, there are exactly 2 speaking roles for people of color, one is Missandei and one is Grey Worm, that’s all the representation that minorities have by the end of the series. The entire Dorne plot was completely butchered by the show, so any representation from there was eliminated in season 7. So there’s a serious lack of diversity and while the books have their own issues, there’s much more diversity there, so this is not a case of the casting being dictated by the narrative. 

Second, the death of Missandei has all kinds of tone-deaf/ racist symbolism surrounding it. We see the trope of the black friend dying to further the white friend’s narrative. In the books, Dany has a large entourage had they, not shrunk is so much their killing of Missandei wouldn’t have been so egregious.  But having the only woman of color die to further her best friends descent into madness, is not only racist, but it’s also sexist and misogynist to boot. Then you have Missandei, a woman who was once a slave, chained up. Really? It apparently occurred to no one that these visuals are well beyond offensive. 

It’s not like black characters can’t be killed off, that’s a starman argument. What the issue here is that the representation of people of color is so poor in films and TV that killing one of the two speaking roles for people of color in the entire series is pretty fucked up. Further, she didn’t die because of any choices she made, her death had nothing to do with her as a character, her death was solely created to further the narrative of Daenerys character. Missandei can’t even “earn” her own death. 

The writing for season 8 has led to a lot of frustration for a lot of people because it was so poorly constructed.  But aside from that, there are real issues of racism, sexism, and misogyny throughout the season and the series. As @ladyofdragonstone mentioned yesterday, we’ve been giving the series a pass for a long time because we were so enthralled in the story but now that it’s all over we really need to look back and question some of the narrative choices made, that did not have to be made. Because the message that they send is harmful. 

I think your friend should read up on how difficult it is for people of color to get roles in TV and movies, it’s even harder to get speaking roles and this is due to both unconscious bias (which your friend seems to be displaying) and conscious bias. Racism is very much still alive, having a black friend doesn’t make you immune to it. 

TTFN

[killthebxy]

          i decided a bit of writing about this topic would be a good idea, considering it’s one i talk more and more often about in this blog. so... why am i so openly opposed to the idea of Jon sitting the Iron Throne? as a starting point, for this to be viable, the show went for the theory that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark --- fair enough. it is not my favorite theory for Jon’s parentage, but it doesn’t bug me and i can live with it. especially because it has some advantages, such as making it possible that Jon becomes the one who rides Rhaegal, which is always super interesting to explore in my writing and my headcanons. the actual problem, as turns out to be the case with pretty much everything D&D do, is not the content but the way in which it is presented.

          first, and from my perspective, it’s cliché writing that clearly aims for a happy ending --- Jon Snow is our lord and savior and never did anything wrong in his life, therefore deserves to be king and rule for 76 years and live happily ever after. i’m speaking for myself here, but i’m sure 99.8% of the ASOIAF rp community will agree when i say that this series (the books, at least) are NOT meant to have a happy ending. bittersweet, at most. because that’s the world GRRM has built and, hey, it’s real life. it is very unrealistic to expect that this story can have a simplistic ending, where the good guys win and the bad guys lose and everything is linear and easy. so what did D&D do? they clearly wanted Jon to become the main protagonist, because Kit Harington is hot and has nice hair and the audience loves him, so they needed a motive to make him the heir to the throne --- so let’s just find a way to make him a Targaryen because Targaryens are the royal people! let’s go for the easiest way possible and say that he’s Rhaegar’s son even though there was barely any foreshadowing for this before (friendly reminder that GRRM is quality trash for symbolism and foreshadowing) and let’s do it because we can and for the heck of it! who cares if it’s commercial writing and cliché people love this!!!!! lol who cares for realistic characters and storylines anyway we have CGI dragons!!!!

          which immediately raises a question: what about Aegon Targaryen? and by Aegon Targaryen i mean Egg, Young Griff, the son of Rhaegar and Elia and younger brother to Rhaenys --- the only Aegon Targaryen i will ever acknowledge in this blog. for argument’s sake, i’ll assume that in the books Young Griff is not an impostor and Jon Connington is actually doing the realm a service --- which means this is the actual heir to the Iron Throne, if we also go by a logic that a rebellion is a non-valid way to claim a throne and that Robert was indeed a usurper. even if Jon is Rhaegar’s son, Egg is older than Jon --- therefore, HE comes first in the line for succession. and here let me be fair --- this isn’t solely a GOT problem, it is very difficult, if not impossible, for a show to ever capture the depth of the books it is based on. the ASOIAF series has hundreds of characters, i do not completely fault the show for not including all of them and i can understand this. what i cannot understand is thinking that Aegon is the only Targaryen name that ever existed and therefore LET’S NAME EVERYONE AEGON!!!!!!!! seriously. even if the guy does not exist in the show (or, well, never survived the sack of King’s Landing) --- why would you do this. literally you could just use Google and search “popular kingly Targaryen names”. can you be any lazier than this.

          anyway. on the other hand, and even assuming Egg does not exist anymore in the show --- then what about Dany’s claim? true, in this scenario, Jon’s claim would come first --- because he’s older, and because he’s a man. much as it IS sexist and misogynist and unfair, this is the way Westeros works save for Dorne. thing is... the only way for this to make sense would be if Jon is Rhaegar’s legitimate son AND THIS IS THE “DETAIL” THAT MAKES ME SEETHE AND SPIT SALT EVERYWHERE. let me address this step by step... i already wrote a meta about Jon’s bastard nature (CLICK) and the impact it has. being a bastard is the central pillar in Jon’s identity and his psychological functioning, and you do not erase 20+ years (in show canon) of living with this mindset in a day or two. you do not. it’s not realistic, it’s not humanly possible. Jon has internalized that stigma, he sees himself the way almost everyone in Westeros sees bastard children, and he feels the constant need to compensate for it --- to prove that he’s not of bad blood and not a cunning, treacherous, ambitious person who’d do anything to have a real name and real power. you don’t just push a button in your brain and suddenly none of this matters anymore.

          which comes laced with another huge problem, to say it very mildly: the annulment of Rhaegar’s and Elia’s marriage. i am honestly not even going to detail how much of a complete disrespect this is, to Elia Martell in particular and to Dorne in general --- my lovely friends who write Dornish muses can do this much more brilliantly than me. but. can i just state how much of a dick move this is? how racist and xenophobic? let’s just grab this poor woman who was already humiliated, raped, harassed, butchered by Gregor Clegane and shit on her even more by saying almighty beautiful noble Prince Rhaegar didn’t care for her to the point of getting a divorce for the sake of marrying another woman. because according to robot-Bran HE LOVED HER AND SHE LOVED HIM!!!!!! ROBERT’S REBELLION WAS BUILT ON A LIE!!!!!!!!! WHO CARES IF AERYS II LITERALLY ROASTED BRANDON AND RICKARD STARK ALIVE!!!!!!! IT WAS ALL FOR EPIC ROMANTIC LOVE!!!!!!!!! ...like. what do you even say to this. i, as someone who loves Jon Snow with every cell of my entire being, am ASHAMED that Elia Martell was portrayed as no more than meat for slaughter and a plot device so that my muse could become a legitimate heir to an ugly iron chair. not to mention --- what does this whole thing mean in the end? that a bastard is not fit to be king, therefore he must first be legitimated by any excuses possible no matter how low and vile. BASICALLY D&D CONFIRM EVERY SINGLE STEREOTYPE ABOUT BASTARDS. THEY’RE ONLY GOOD AND PROPER IF THEY HAVE ACTUAL PURE BLOOD. CAN YOU BELIEVE HOW STUPID THIS WHOLE THING IS, I FEEL MY SOUL LEAVING MY BODY EVERY TIME I EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS.

          ...in conclusion. these are the reasons why i absolutely loathe the idea of Jon as the heir to the Iron Throne. continuity errors and cliché/lazy writing that i can live with to a degree but, above everything else, the disrespect to Elia and the disrespect to Jon himself. and this is why, in this blog, i will never ever acknowledge Jon as a legitimate Targaryen. in this blog, he’s always bastard-born, no matter who his father or mother are. and this is also why the only verse where i’ll write Jon as heir to the throne and king is my mad king verse (CLICK) --- because it comes with consequences and at a heavy price, and even in this verse he’s bastard-born. in every other verse and thread and plot i write, he’s king regent/king consort because he married the rightful queen. and he’s a Snow. Jon Snow doesn’t need to have legitimate birth for me to love & adore him fiercely and for me to want to die a thousand deaths for him, and he certainly does not need to be heir to a chair. and, no matter what s08 brings, i’ll be here to rewrite it because D&D are gonna ruin this boy’s essence and nature over my cold dead body turned to a wight with black hands and blue eyes.

[ladykakata]

Kill the Dragon, Kill the Soul: Why Daenerys’ Gaslighting Hurts.

It’s no secret that the ending to S8 has received a ... mixed response, to say the least. For the most part, Episodes 1-2 and to a point 3 were well received. Episode 3 had good moments, but felt lacking in certain areas, the battle tactics were panned as well as the overall lighting of the scene, and disappointment that the Night King was stopped at Winterfell (and Arya being the one to land the killing blow).

However, true disappointment did not fully reign until Episode 4, and Episodes 5-6 being a crashing disappointment for myself and many other fans, depending on what we were angry with in terms of writing. While I could talk about how much various characters were either butchered, rendered moot, or simply given nothing to do, I want to talk about the handling of Daenerys, and why in particular her gaslighting through the last 3 episodes in particular struck a nerve.

The Targaryen dynasty have a particular history with mental health issues, ranging from outright insanity, to more mild, and a lot of this is blamed on the incestuous marriage that the family practices to varying degrees of closeness, ranging from brother-sister to niece-uncle. Targaryens could be brilliant, or could be cruel, and a common saying is that ‘when a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin’. It was also noted that Targaryen madness was a late-onset condition; Daenerys’ father Aerys was not mentally unwell at the start of his rule, but his mental health deteriorated during his reign. In terms of the last Targaryens, Daenerys herself seemed to be a coin toss. Her eldest brother, Rhaegar, was said to be kind, noble, and the very best a Prince should be. It’s unknown how he would have developed had he not been killed at the Trident, given his father, but nothing suggests underlying conditions. Viserys, the infamously golden-crowned ‘begger king’ was noted by Daenerys in the novels to not be cruel at first, but suffered declining mental health as years of poverty and struggle took a toll on him, and he began mentally and emotionally abusing his little sister. This manifested in delusions of grandeur, an explosive temper, and taking out his frustrations on Daenerys, culminating in his murder at the hands of Khal Drogo for both breaking the rules of Vaes Dothrak, but also threatening the life of Daenerys and their unborn baby.

Daenerys, at the start of the series, was a shy and timid young woman, afraid of her brother and her new arranged marriage. Over the course of the first season, she grows into her position of Khaleesi, learns self-confidence, takes control in her relationship with Khal Drogo, and asserts herself over her own brother. When he tries to physically assert his dominance over her, she is either defended by the Dothraki (via a whip to his throat), or directly (with a heavy gold belt to the face). The latter shocks Viserys deeply, and her own temper over his assault showing her own dragon’s blood for the first time. I do not think her coldness over his death meant she was ‘insane’. Rather, the way she realised that he was a pathetic, lowly man who couldn’t lead an army even if Khal Drogo gave him one was shown on her face as she translated for Khal Drogo. Viserys had threatened her unborn child, had directly threatened to cut it out to her face, and as such, she completely cut out this abusive figure from her life for not only her sake, but for her baby’s sake.

Daenerys feels strongly about rape and unnecessary violence. While she has the line ‘I do not have a gentle heart’, she did have one and does have one for the weak and the defenceless. From trying to protect women from Dotharki rape, to ordering the children be unharmed when she took over the Unsullied, she shows a clear sense of moral right. Even if that moral right puts her at odds with others (i.e. the Dothraki, who were clearly angry at being denied the right to rape, and the various Masters, whose slaves she sought to free). Despite keeping the pretence that she did not understand Valyrian to Kraznys mo Nakloz (the Good Master who sold her the Unsullied and was roasted alive by Drogon for his insults), she still tried to prevent him from cutting off the nipple of an Unsullied soldier when he demonstrated their fearlessness. While she took the Unsullied by trickery, she offered them the chance to be free, and gave them the right to change their demeaning names. Grey Worm, their elected Commander, chose to keep his and she respected his decision.

Essos is a land of might, not of honour and justice, at least in the eyes of Daenerys. For as often as she has tried peace and freedom, the more brutal Essos traditions often seek to undermine her and ensure that her unwanted changes are a temporary annoyance. When she pursues a more direct, violent path (personally burning down the Wise Masters’ forces when they attack Meereen in her absence), she has more success. After years of dealing with harsh and bloody retaliation for her seeking freedom for the downtrodden, her heart is hard when it finally reaches Westeros. Had Jon, and by extension, the entire North met Daenerys when she was still intent on freeing slaves, it would have been a smoother introduction. Weary of always being met with blood and insults, she was ready with coldness and asserting her authority to the humble - and very tired - Jon. Still, she was willing to listen, and measured her responses when needed.

Daenerys has done everything that has been asked of her since coming to Westeros, and has reached great feats. She reached an agreement with Yara Greyjoy, in exchange for naval experience, that she would allow a free Iron Islands, on the condition that rape and pillage was not continued. This is in keeping with her character, as rape and pillage was not something she tolerated well with the Dothraki, and she realises that the Iron Islands, with their superior naval might, could become the best traders in Westeros, replacing the uncertainty of pillage with steady and good trade. When she learns that Yara wishes to be Queen, but needs support in her claim (and Theon discounts himself as an heir), she sympathises with another Queen seeking freedom, and accepts the alliance. It could have been an exceptionally fruitful arrangement, had Daenerys either taken the throne or disbanded it in the name of the land governing itself in smaller portions under local rulership, ‘breaking’ the wheel’. This scene hinted that Daenerys would get rid of the Iron Throne and its poisonous thrall over the land, breaking up one seat for smaller governments, perhaps elected by smallfolk or even simply regional Kings. She gained support from Dorne via Ellaria Sand, and Ellaria’s words ‘weak men will never again rule Dorne’ suggests she was going to rule herself (it’s unclear; the Dorne plot is a sore point).

She was asked for Dragonglass. She gave it. She was asked to fight for the War for the Dawn instead of taking King’s Landing. She did so. She saved Jon’s life and helped in the Dragonpit meeting, even if it amounted to nothing and she could have simply burned Cersei right there and claim the throne. She fought personally in the Battle for Winterfell, along with her forces. She has done everything advised of her. She has put up with the snide comments of Sansa Stark and the North ...

And the result is that she is told she is mad, will be mad, will be cruel, will not share power with Jon?

FUCK. OFF.

The Targaryens are ruthless, this is a known point of the family. However, Daenerys tempered her fire with kindness, and is known to be merciful when called upon. Take advantage of her kindness, however, and suffer the fire. Being in the cut-throat world of Essos has made this a shorter route, since a woman can only be called a whore, a slut, and threatened with death and rape so many times before she stamps down her enemies. A firm but gentle hand would have been good for Westeros, and her known concern for the smallfolk would have, again, stood her in good stead. Orlenna Tyrell told her to ‘be a dragon’, and at the time I wasn’t sure if the Queen of Thorns was trying to sow Daenerys’ own downfall in advance; it seems she was warning her to fire first, and then heal with kindness afterwards.

The greater point is that she has never committed acts of savagery without provocation. She calmly listened to the Khals in Vaes Dothraki casually discuss raping her and dismissing her views, before turning on them, but again gave them a clear choice; submit, or die. When met with even more hostility, she calmly and desicevly fought against those who were her clear and direct enemies. Unlike Cersei, she didn’t slaughter the Khals without the option of submitting to her. And she didn’t slaughter anyone else in the crossfire either. Weight has been given to her execution of Randyll and Dickon Tarly, painting this moment as her turn to ‘madness’. However, this amazing post details the reasons why this logic is, quite frankly, bullshit and how she was more than merciful to a family that has turned more times than can be counted, and has threatened to murder a son and heir for simply being a ‘disappointment’.

For someone who is mad, only wants power, and will stop at nothing to get it, Daenerys sure does listen to others’ advice, disregard those whose advice is gradually getting worse, and put her own plans on hold to fight the War for the Dawn. Sansa Stark has been nothing but bitter and angry ever since Daenerys came to Winterfell, seeing the blonde Dragon Queen as some foreign invader intent on taking back Winterfell, and it takes Missendei to remind her in the crypts of the fact Daenerys is outside fighting the battle whilst Sansa hides down below with the bones of her ancestors. Yes, not everyone can fight, but the fact she chooses to spend that moment disrespecting their greatest ally, who more than doubled the forces of the living and brought two massive war machines in the form of Dragons, is simply a cunty thing to do.

Good to see Catlyn Tully’s blood is alive in her.

The fact she pushed the North’s agenda during what should be the fight for the dawn annoyed Daenerys, as it should. While Sansa not falling for small flattery was in-character, she should have at least found some common ground with Daenerys, least of all because this is her brothers’ girlfriend and their greatest ally for the moment. Since Daenerys already spoke with Yara about a free Iron Islands, asking for Northern independence wouldn’t have been out of the question, had Sansa waited until the fight was over and Daenerys was in the frame of mind about freaking the wheel. Disrespecting Daenerys, and being a complete bitch to her face, only hardened the Queen’s heart, and served to make it clear that Sansa would fight Daenerys for power, something Daenerys did not want. There could even have been the clean and clear solution of Jon, as King in the North, marry Daenerys, Queen of Dragonstone, and have a beneficial alliance that way. Sansa could rule as, essentially, Prime Minister under her brother, Daenerys has her ancestral seat and a home for her dragons, and the Kingdoms are free to choose their own rulers.

Episode 4 is where the constant and depressing gaslighting truly sets in. Daenerys feels alone and unwanted as the feast roars on, everyone praising just about everyone else besides her. Her dragon and her forces fought for these people, who only seem to care about Northern heroics and the feats of Jon. Not helping is the fact she has lost Jorah, and her circle grows smaller. Legitimising Gendry, though framed as a way to gain a new ally, spoke more to the idea that she was forgiving, and - in the same vein as Jon - was not going to blame the children for the sins of their parents. Jon felt the weight of his father’s supposed infidelity all his life, and Daenerys felt the weight of her father’s crimes on her shoulders. Pointedly, as Sansa brought up the death of her grandfather and uncle at the hand of Aerys. [Daenerys’ attitude towards Jaime does not factor in here; Jaime directly killed Aerys himself] Daenerys rewarded Gendry for his critical help in the Battle for Winterfell, and it was fully justified. It also served to show that she was merciful, and would reward those for their merit, not simply their heritage. Gendry has no real right to Storms End, but his cource and work justified the title, and he has become the new Lord Baratheon. Could he have become a new King of Storms? We don’t know; he might have been daunted by such a position, and she could have offered to share help with him or suggest he hire wise men to help him lead the land.

Begging Jon, however cringey it was to see a powerful woman beg, was a sign that she didn’t want to ahve evertyhing she was working for simply handed to soemone else due to the qualification of having a cock. This was something that any woman of nobility should have felt, and was a key point in Cersei’s bitterness over male preference in Westeros. She shouldn’t have had to contest the Goddman throne with Jon; he didn’t want it, she didn’t want this knowledge destroying their relationship, and most important, THAT KIND OF KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS. This is whyu I felt that Sansa was bitterly, horribly out of character for making such knowledge public knowledge; it came across as wanting to both be rid of Daenerys, and to get the North free as soon as possible. In any case, her sudden rush south is understandable, given how unwelcome she feels in the North, and how people already seem to be making moves to give the crown to Jon. She may have intended to ‘break the wheel’, but her plans cannot work if someone gets rid of her - very probably terminally - to place someone else on the Pointy-Ass Chair. So. ‘The snap’. The moment she took King’s Landing and the Lannister forces surrended, this should have been a perfect moment for her. She achieved her goal with minimal civilian casualties, Cersei’s forces are obliterated, she just has to capture the Lion Cunt herself. The ‘snap’ was so forced it was disgusting, the voices making it even worse. She has shown no signs of mental imbalance, aside from grief over the death of Jorah, Rhaegal and Missendei. The ‘hard look’ after Missendei’s death was one of ‘she will not surrender, she must die for the crown to be free’. It probably gave her memories of the crucified children, an attempt to scare her off and anger her when the Masters of Essos did not want her freeing their livestock (slaves). It does not justify Varys, Tyrion, even Jon calling her mental state into question. Every single season, prior to S8 Ep4, Daenerys was clearheaded, firm, hardened by Essos but possessing a gentle heart for those whom she considered downtrodden, innocent or vurnerable. She had absolutly no reason to start blowing apart King’s Landing; the smallfolk had not jeered her, they had not come to attack her, they hadn’t seemingly reacted much to her arrival. The awe her dragons invoke in people could have seen her welcomed, her near-bloodless (in terms of civilians) conquest could have sown the seeds for a fantastic start to her reign and dismantling of the wheel, before going on to free the slaves of the world. While she could have missed Missendei, and Grey Worm, she probably would have seen it a fitting reward to their years of service and loyalty, and even offered to visit and host them in her future home (Dragonstone or otherwise) should they want to visit her.

SHE COULD HAVE HAD IT ALL.

But, no. Constantly told, without provocation, over and over again how she will grow mad and be a cruel tyrant, and have horrible writing force a snap at the sound of a bell, it was ripped away and she was cast as the final final villain for all of half an episode to justify Jon slaughtering her. A man practically coerced into murdering her, a man who has only ever murdered enemies, and knows the power and pain of being backstabbed.

And what was the result of the death of the Dragon Queen?

The wheel remains. The North is free only because the King is the brother of the Queen. The Iron Islands remains the Crown’s property. The Targaryens are now extinct. Everyone got a happy ending.

Except, now, the beautiful Dragon Queen. Gaslit to death, told she will be mad and bad like her father despite everything she has done to show she is merciful. Asked little in return for her terrible losses in fighting for a Westeros that didn’t care for her. She was betrayed, broken, and could only count on her son and her Unsullied.

As someone with a history of mental health issues, this is honestly a disgusting thing to see. I have personally been gaslit, I’ve been asked if my being impatient or angry is a result of my mental health condition, being asked ‘have you taken your pills’, being told about the suicide rates and self-harm rates associated with my condition. It makes you afraid, afraid of yourself, terrified despite a shown history of not behaving a certain way. It places a burden, a guilt by association, a guilt that your emotions are not justified because of your own brain. Can I not be angry at a late train, or must it be because of the irrational anger present in BPD? Can I not cut someone out of my life for being toxic, or must it be ‘splitting’? To see someone as great as Daenerys reduced to her family’s blood is disgusting, and goes against an ongoing theme in the show that you are more than your heritage (Jon, when he thought he was Ned’s bastard) or your past actions (Jaime, before the show killed THAT).

Long live Queen Daenerys I of Dragonstone, the Backstabbed, the Betrayed, the Slaughtered Lamb of Westeros.

Fuck Season 8.

[fortunatelylori]

Why do people claim racism when someone hates Dorne/The Martells?

Hi, @disneyprincessbuffyannesummers!

I’m not sure I’m the best person to answer this since I’m not really a die hard Dorne/Martells fan nor am I very well versed with the discourse in that part of the fandom, aside from some basic, highly visible issues. So in advance of this answer, I would highly recommend looking up pro-Dorne blogs and perhaps sending asks there so people more invested in this part of ASOIAF fandom can give you a more detailed and, most likely, a far more accurate answer. 

As a general rule, I don’t particularly like talking for other people nor am I a fan of screaming “insert trigger word here” every time a criticism of a story line or character is put forward. 

Perhaps there are corners of the pro-Dorne/pro-Martell fandom that use racism as an devaluation for valid criticism. However, I haven’t really come across many examples of this. 

What I have come across are some pretty extreme and rather blatant examples of ASOIAF fans either unfairly criticizing Dorne or using patronizing statements that do, at least to me, reek of racism to a degree, whether or not the initial poster intended it as such. 

So I’d say that if you have come across people claiming racism in the face of Dorne criticism is perhaps because it’s either warranted or, given the history of the way people treat Dorne and the Martells in the fandom, is seen as a rather permanent fixture in the discourse regarding this topic. 

Two glaring issues that I’ve come across that are bound to raise my level of frustration with the fandom in general are: 

The discourse regarding Dorne’s resistance to Targareyen conquest. There is actually a vid on youtube, that I’m not going to link here because I’m not about to give that crap more views, that spends about 2 hours depicting the Dornish as savages and barbarians because they dared to oppose the dragon lords by any means necessary. 

Don’t get me wrong. People can engage in a debate regarding war and the savagery that it entails but the whole premise of that vid was that the Dornish were wrong in opposing a family that was hell bent on conquering them. In many ways, this discourse is not dissimilar to the way history, for many years, approached Alexander The Great’s conquest, where Alexander, the white Greek that had studied under Aristotle, was spreading enlightenment to the “uncivilized barbarians” in Egypt, for example. 

There is something deeply racist  about claiming that by virtue of who they were, the Dornish had no right to defend themselves and should just have allowed their country to be subjugated by the enlightened, lilly-white Targareyens, who in this revised discourse, were actually trying to conquer the whole of Westeros because they knew the zombie apocalypse was coming … 300 years later. 

Then there’s the matter of Elia Martell who is depicted as this inconsequential, dead weight sickly wife who Rhaegar was entitled to put aside in favor of the white and, evidently, superior Lyanna Stark, even though canon evidence proves that Elia managed to give Rhaegar two healthy children and survive both pregnancies while Lyanna died as a result of giving birth. To be clear, Lyanna’s death says nothing about her worth as a person but Elia’s issues of fertility past her second pregnancy are always brought up as a valid reason why Rhaegar was correct in setting her aside, humiliate her publicly and basically forget all about her. 

When she isn’t depicted in this blatantly racist and ableist way, Elia Martell is patronized. She is the “politically savy”, “sexually enlightened” woman of “color” from a “sexually free” society and, as such, she would totally support Rhaegar’s decision to run off with Lyanna Stark, put herself and her children in danger and have no issues with Rhaegar fathering a child that could threaten her own children’s rights because he read a prophecy in a book. To say otherwise, would be “disrespectful” to the “politically savy” Elia. 

Notice how neither one of these arguments are really there to benefit or shed light on Elia because no one that claims any of those things actually cares about her. These arguments are there for one reason and one reason alone: to make sure Rhaegar is absolved of any and all culpability. 

Going by that premise, it’s also depicted as wrong and downright criminal that Oberyn and Doran Martell might still harbor resentment over what happened to their sister or that they might want to avenge her. This is despite the fact that no one seems to have a problem with the Starks seeking revenge on the Lannisters for what they did to their family. The Martells, on the other hand, should just let bygones be bygones … I wonder why …

The show really didn’t help matters any by completely butchering the Dorne plot, turning the whole culture into a hypersexualized joke where the common thread for the casting of these characters seems to have been “people with a tan”. Just as an example: Pedro Pascal, the actor playing Oberyn, is of Latino descent. Oberyn’s brother, Doran, is played by Alexander Siddig, who is part Sudanese, part English. Tell me in what genetic ignorant universe these two could share parents. While we’re at it, the child of Latino Pedro Pascal and Indian/Swiss Indira Varma is the Italian American Rosabell Laurenti Sellers, who here we assume passes for a person of color because … she has dark hair and spent a few hours in the tan salon? 

What I’m trying to get at with all these examples is that it’s rather difficult to extract the matter of race and racism from discussions regarding Dorne and the Martells because we’re reminded of these inherent issues at every turn. 

Thanks for the ask!

[el-queen]

Hi I was just wondering what you think will happen to Arianne Martell in TWOW? How do you feel about her character not being included in the show?

Thank you for the ask. This post will be divided into two sections, comparing the books with the show.

On Arianne not being included in the GOT show and the consequences it brought to the overall Dorne plot:

Arianne Martell is an important character in both the books and the show, even if she has proven herself to be quite unsuitable to carry out the mission her father has given her. Both she and Quentyn have been proven to be the wrong people to carry out Doran's plan of bringing the Targaryens back into power, as I will explain in a later section.

If she had been included in the TV show, most of the mistakes that were made about Dorne in the past three seasons would have been drastically lessened. Arianne's story is a crucial point in the books (I shall get into why in a later part of this post), and most of the muck about Dorne we were presented with in the show by D&D would have been avoided.

Why do you think D&D took the Tyrells out of the show in the final episode of Season 6, when Cersei blew up the Great Sept of Baelor? They simply had no idea of what to do with both the Tyrells and the Martells once they had completely cut out Young Griff's plotline, which in turn butchered Arianne's chances of existing in the show. I'm sure there would have been some way to properly include Arianne and her storyline (if they had been smarter about it), but instead they merged her character with Ellaria's and killed off the Dornish royal family without a second thought.

(My thoughts on the books will be placed under the cut,  as this is getting long)

On Arianne's moves in the books and on what TWOW will bring for her:

As I have hinted in the previous section, Arianne is completely unsuitable to the task of carrying out her father's massive plan to restore the Targaryens. Not only is she not politically-savvy, but she is also accompanied by several people who are ill-suited. (as we see in her pre-released chapters for the sixth book with several characters)

For example, her cousin, Elia Sand, is only fourteen years old when we meet her, and yet Doran sends her off with Arianne - not caring about whether the party will get killed or injured in their quest to find Jon Connington (Griff). And how the heck will Arianne know for sure if Young Griff is Aegon or if Jon is Griff?

As Daemon Sand himself puts it,

If Jon Connington's Prince has a cracked skull, I will believe his tales. (Arianne I, TWOW)

She is completely ill-suited to the task, and Quentyn was even more so - all because he did not wish to face his father's disapproval. What will Arianne do when she finds Jon and Aegon? Will she simply write back to her father and tell him that they're reinforcing their word on who they say they are? What will she do?

Those are my thoughts.

[ibuproffie]

wtf WAS this season of got

i just finished watching and like...? i have so many questions? cut for spoilers i guess 

ding dong you are WRONG i’m just going to incoherently ramble because i was like ??? for the whole thing. fyi i’ve read the asoiaf books multiple times so that’s kind of informed a lot of this rant because i just don’t see grrm ending the series like the show ended. 

so since s7, we’ve really seen this whole rush of stuff and the process of dany taking back westeros has been really dialed up to 11 for no goddamn reason. i mean the leaders of dorne were murdered, edmure tully was irrelevant, the tyrells were just all killed off, stannis gang killed off, no mention of varys’s fake targ plan (which personally i was cool with; i don’t love that tbh). which is...part of the thing that makes got...good was the intrigue; the mass of characters and subplots and ambitions etc. and i didn’t rlly say anything because i thought ok, it’s not great but at least we’ll get a really satisfying s8. 

the white walkers? sis WHERE? were they?? WHO were they?? the whole show they’ve been hyped up as the big bad, the catalyst for bringing ice and fire together, so to speak, and then they kill all of them off in one episode? isn’t this the greater evil that the people of westeros must unite behind that they’ve been foreshadowing all FUCKING show?? don’t they put things in perspective?? show the futility of life and the importance of humanity?? like what the hell? (side note: arya killing the night king was cool af but...narrative, but also...WOMEN so i’m torn) and then, i thought, “well maybe they were killed to have more time for intrigue but like...anyone who hasn’t firmly chosen a side is fucking dead” so lol to that my dudes

the dothraki? weren’t they all killed in the fight with the night king? how did they all show up to besiege kings’ landing at just the right moment? how many dothraki are there? i could ask roughly the same question about the unsullied but the dothraki were more egregious so imma just call them out 

danaerys?? ma’am what?? fyi Evil Targ Dany isn’t a dany i would totally hate; the books have foreshadowed that dany has some potential for being a bad guy or at least a worse guy than she was at the beginning. anyone who says there’s no way dany could be a hot steaming yikes hasn’t been paying attention and that’s just the tea...she’s been told her entire life that she’s special because of who her parents were, she’s been extremely popular and successful just by using brute force and not listening, really, to her advisors. it’s always been there; she’s always been a little bit of a gamble. however, what i do have some problems with was that evil dany was just dropped out of fucking nowhere. like, they killed missandei and she just inexplicably torched the city, killed people who were surrendering (which if you remember, the only reason she killed the tarlys was because they WOULDN’T surrender so wtf dany) and started seeing traitors everywhere. if you’re gonna have a character start doing an about-face like that, you’re going to need to foreshadow it a little bit. because it just seemed rlly out of character. this season, all of danaerys’s decisions, which have usually been framed as “brutal but necessary” by the story suddenly became “extremely irrational and a threat to everyone”. for chrissakes, she should be fucking worried about jon eclipsing her in popularity because he has a better claim to the throne and is a man even though she’s done all the work!! it makes sense for her to kill varys because he was trying to murder her (like so many other characters tried!!) legitimizing gendry makes sense-hell, stannis tried to do the same for jon!! these were not totally out-there calls for dany and didn’t really count as evidence of her growing insanity or whatever. in addition, her goal shifted from “i want to reclaim my birthright” to “i want to create a utopia over which i rule indefinitely” which is not a desire that i have ever read from either show!dany or book!dany. she’s simply not naive enough to think she could do something like that. also (and this is kind of a pattern w s8) dany’s arc seemed to suggest that she was trying to be better than her family. the whole crux of her claim is that she’s better than aerys was, that she was learning that the family members she idealized her whole life could be terrible and cruel and that she didn’t want to be like viserys or aerys or even, really, like rhaegar. how many times have we heard this?? to just drop the whole “you-can’t-escape-your-nature” shit on us now is not only really fucking bleak, but bad writing. also jonerys just kept on getting worse and worse; the romanticization of incest on this show was too fucking much and i just couldn’t. why would danaerys, who was trying to escape her nature, desperately want to hook up with her nephew?isn’t there enough of this on got for god’s sake? what happened to her being a new targaryen? what fucking happened? 

jon? i don’t love r + l =j but whatever, fine. may i ask what the point was, ma’am?? may i fucking ask, why bring back jon snow from the dead? wasn’t he the “prince that was promised”? then why in god’s name did he not take a more active role in the fight against the white walkers? if he’s azor azhai reborn, was danaerys his nissa nissa? and what did that sacrifice accomplish in his arc? or is melisandre full of shit all along and it’s just all up to chance? and then what was the point of setting all of that up? you can’t just abandon subplots like this guys; you just can’t. 

bran? had no point, the worst character objectively... WHAT tomfoolery gave tyrion the bright idea to make him the king? isn’t he supposed to be smart good god

braime? excuse me what? FUCKING FORESHADOWED ALL THE GODDAMN WAY THROUGH, WE GET A TENDER A** FUCKING SEX SCENE THAT ISN’T GODDAMN GROSS AND THEN they’re like “nope sike!! see!! jaime can never change!! you thot that was a redemption arc sweaty!! twincest for the win!!” like this isn’t happening in the books and you can’t fucking change my mind, grrm did not set up this arc to disrespect jaime or brienne like this. part of brienne’s arc is going to be realizing that she is desirable and deserving of love. mark my fucking words. this was part ii of this weird “we can’t escape our nature” shit that kept cropping up this season for no reason. and look, i’m not just going off on this because i’m a hardcore braime shipper (sorry not sorry). i’m going off because it literally doesn’t make sense. if you foreshadow a huge character arc that will redeem the character, tease it, and then go in the complete opposite direction, that motivation for the character goes all over the place. at this point in the narrative he had cut his ties w cersei; he realized as tyrion pointed out that they had a toxic relationship and that while he still cared about her to an extent, he had come to the realization of what an intensely horrendous person she was, and it didn’t fucking matter if she was pregnant with his kid because she (unlike him) wasn’t making any sort of strides to be a better person. and then there’s brienne who is possibly the only soul in westeros who believes there’s more “good jaime” than “killing kings and crippling little boys jaime” who is his physical equal as well as his legit friend (like how many friends does jaime really have right) who he’s beginning to have feelings for because of their shared traumatic experiences and similar goals and the writers just...fucking ignored all of that previous buildup. and braime never had to necessarily end happily (see the cersei paragraph); i personally think that one or both of them are going to die in the books, but it really was a gigantic slap in the face as well as to book canon “throw this in the fire” anyone?? 

and cersei? don’t get me wrong; i’ve wanted her dead for so long but come the fuck on and remember the goddamn valonqar prophecy. that’s ignoring a huge part of her motivation for being so “evil”. because she knows her doom is coming and is doing her best to prevent it. jesus fucking christ. jaime was supposed to kill her (and maybe die in the process but ya know) because i personally think tyrion’s done enough kinslaying. to have her die in that way was both anti-climactic and ignoring the narrative again. they just shouldn’t have included the prophecy if they were going to butcher it like this jajkjfalk

[gameofthronesrenlyxlorasforever]

Top ASOIAF Romances

These are my top asoiaf romances, meaning the ones I was rooting for and/or found fascinating. Sometimes there’s an overlap of “I find it interesting” and “I was rooting for it”, but not in each case. This is a mix of show and book canon because it turns out that most of the romantic relationships in asoiaf are pretty crappy. If we look beyond the actual novels though, there are quite a few gems.

#1 Renly x Loras 

The best OTP in the story, in my opinion. For one, we get lines like, “when the sun has set, no candle can replace it”. That is incredibly touching. It’s a King and his Knight. How can someone not love that? On the show, they depicted the relationship quite well. At first, that is. It was great in Season 2. Let’s leave it at that. I’ve talked about this before, but these boys met when they were quite young. Which means they were friends first and that’s beautiful. The tragedy is so heartbreaking, it’s at The Song of Achilles levels. The two m/m romances are similarly tender and affectionate. It’s an Achilles x Patroclus, Alexander x Hepheastion, romance. The lovers who went to war and only one returned, only for the other to die soon after. (Loras is alive in the books (maybe) but the way things have been on the show, I don’t see good things coming for any of the Tyrells : (       

#2 Ned x Catelyn 

What’s interesting about this Stark-Tully match is that it was an arranged marriage that turned into genuine love. People tend to complain about romances that are not dramatic enough, and these two could be in that category. If it weren’t for a couple of brilliant pieces of realistic drama in their relationship. Typically it’s contrived and silly whenever people who love each act like morons for the sake of relationship drama, but not in this case. The main reasons for Cat and Ned’s issues are that a) she was supposed to marry Brandon, Ned’s older brother. There’s a chance that Ned thinks Cat had feelings for Brandon, and I think she found him attractive in the way teen girls sometimes find “bad boys” attractive. At the same time, Cat was too smart not to be concerned about Brandon’s “wolfblood” nature. And b) Jon Snow. Their second relationship complication is Ned’s bastard. Specifically, that he refused to send Jon away to be fostered somewhere and chose to raise him along with his trueborn children instead. Cat didn’t so much care that Ned cheated on her (her patriarchy brain said “men have needs” and they were apart for a long time and hadn’t known each other well anyway) but that she had to see the consequence of his infidelity walking around Winterfell. Many people hate Cat for not loving Jon, but this is a world where the legitimacy of children is something people start wars over. She felt Jon’s very existence, and especially that he lived at Winterfell, put her own children at risk. Remember, we know Jon loves Cat’s kids, but when he was little, Cat had no way of knowing what type of person he would grow up to be. She feared he would murder her kids to become Lord Stark, a la Ramsay. Of course, the Ramsay situation hadn’t happened yet, but the Blackfyres had. Cat knew about those wars over succession that happened because of the mere existence of an alternate heir. Combine her history knowledge with the Westerosi prejudice against bastards and her choices make sense. So, even though Cat and Ned are a loving couple whose values and temperament work well together, they had their own share of relationship drama (the stuff people love when it comes to reading romance, apparently).  

#3 Oberyn x Ellaria 

The epic love between some of our most significant show!Dornish characters. I’d argue that Arianne and Quentyn end up being the more important players in the books. On the show, they went overboard with making sure we understood that Ellaria and Oberyn weren’t straight. Letting us know would have been fine, except they used the brothel to do it. Anyway, GRRM had no brothels for them. Duh. A prince of the realm will not be staying at a brothel when he comes to the capital for the wedding of a king. 

Come on, D&D! Ugh. Still, at least Oberyn and Ellaria were presented as the good guys who go up against the Lannisters (while being awesome and having some really good lines) and that was fun. Though the brothel stuff was in poor taste. At least they were both LGBT characters we were meant to root for, originally. They were also POC, so that was nice. (This was in season 4 when Dornish people were caricatured but at least they were still presented as the good, contrasted to the Lannisters’ bad)

Basically, Oberyn and Ellaria get points for being LGBT and non-white characters and they are fun and sexy as well. In the books, the relationship is very sweet. They have quite a few kids together, and, though they’re not monogamous, they are happy together and committed to each other. They clearly love each other after many years, so that is some sorely lacking warmth in the story. Also, they are good parents. While they made Ellaria on the show kind of evil, in the books, she is 100% against revenge. Book!Ellaria doesn’t want anyone else in her family to get hurt.       

#4 Egg x Betha 

So, we don’t know how these two met, but it’s probably going to happen in one of the upcoming Dunk & Egg stories. The mystery surrounding the D&E characters is rather fun and it extends to the Egg and Betha romance. We know Egg married for love and we know Betha Blackwood was a spirited woman. Ergo, they were in love. That’s very rare for a royal couple. Can’t wait to meet her! She will be awesome. I’m guessing her personality will be like a Stark’s.   

#5 Myrcella x Trystane 

This is show!canon only, kind of. Myrcella is supposed to marry Trystane in the future, but they are little kids in the books. Still, it is very cute they have a bond. We see that in the Dornish chapters in AFFC. On the show, they are teens, who fell in love despite every obstacle. There are the cultural differences, for one thing. It could have been an issue because the rest of Westeros is racist when it comes to their perception of Dorne. Especially Cersei. BUT Myrcella and Trystane fall in love and it is very sweet. As Doran says, they don’t know how risky it is to have a Lannister and a Martell together. It’s all very Romeo and Juliet, complete with a painful ending. Yes, the Dornish Plot was butchered on the show, but these two kids and Doran were well done. Beautiful and tragic.  

#6 Cersei x Jaime 

Let’s get it out of the way first: this is a toxic relationship. Everything about it is unhealthy. The fact that they are twins, the fact that she only loves him as a reflection of herself, the fact that they had to kill a king and cause a war for it. But unlike with most toxic romances, the author here actually knows that it is a complete mess. That’s what’s so great about the Lannisters. They are all so dysfunctional we cannot look away.  

#7 Jaime x Brienne *

This relationship is not canon by the strictest of definitions. There is no concrete line to confirm that they feel more for each other than friendship. Well, there are plenty of lines that tells us they have feelings for each other, but no one ever quite calls it love. And yet, it is underneath all of their interactions, which is very much the author’s go-to move. He doesn’t like to tell us someone truly loves a person in the story. What he does is present us with evidence pro and con “true love” and we have to weigh the evidence and decide. Btw, I think he would object to the concept of “true love”. I haven’t read/seen him talk about this, but I bet he believes how someone loves depends on personalty and circumstances. I think he would say that it’s possible to love truly but that doesn’t mean the emotion won’t ever go away. That things won’t change. This is especially true for our Lannister and our lady of Tarth. It’s such a slow-burn, and because it’s GRRM, we can smell the tragic ending the moment we realize they have feelings for each other.     

#8 Dunk x Rohanne 

The ultimate lowborn noble-hearted knight and highborn lady couple. Their bickering and flirting was very sexy in the novella. It’s a twist on Robin and Maid Marion, a story which is a classic for a reason. It’s a no HEA rich-mean-girl-and-boy-from-the-wrong-side-of-the-tracks-with-a-heart-of-gold, which is just the GRRM type of realism we all love to hate. It’s a truthful look at such a love. It was never going to work between our Red Widow and our dearest hedgeknight. Lesson learned; just because it is a novella and not an epic poem, that doesn’t make heartbreak, or love, any less real. 

#9 Aegon x Rhaenys x Visenya 

The best of all love triangles, tbh. While most love triangles are poorly constructed, people love to read about that trope. Refreshingly, it’s not one girl and two guys this time. It’s Aegon and his two sisters/wives. What’s fascinating is that his relationship was very different with each of them. Also, there must have been a lot of jealousy because whoever had the first son was the mother of the future king, and, as Margaery told us, sons learn from their mothers. The fact that the woman Aegon loved more died so young, resulting in Aegon and Visenya having to put up with each other without her, is amazing angst. 

#10 Bloodraven x Shiera Seastar 

This is such a power couple. The bastards who were unabashedly themselves. It’s so fun that she kept lovers and refused to marry him just because she wanted to annoy him. There is something sexy about a couple made up of powerful people who are both manipulative. 

#11 Naerys x Aemon the Dragonknight *

Naerys x Aemon is not quite canon, but many people in-universe believe that the pious queen cheated on her cruel king-brother-husband with the noble knight who was the royal couple’s brother. Because her husband was so terrible to both of them, I hope they had an epic romance and found solace in each other. This couple is sexy because of the forbidden romance trope, and because being pious and an adulterer is deliciously angsty. It’s Guinevere and Lancelot with incest, which sounds like it would make HBO salivate. On a more serious note, it is just like GRRM to take a trope like “the forbidden lovers” and push it to the extremes of taste. And it works. Every time. (Not every time the show is “shocking” but whenever GRRM wants to re-sensitize the audience to a topic. 

* I’m certain everyone’s wondering why the story of Rhaegar and Elia and Lyanna is missing here. Well, it’s not on the list because I’m not certain any of the three was in love with any of the other two. We know Rhaegar was not in love with Elia. He was fond of her, cared about her and loved her as a friend and confidante. It’s speculation, but I really believe Elia wasn’t in love with him either. She was fond of him as he was fond of her. As for Lyanna, she’s a wildcard in the story. Did she run away with Rhaegar or did he kidnap her? I think the show is going the true love route, but I think GRRM will make the situation more complicated than that. I really loathe the annulment and I would bet money that’s all D&D and GRRM never wrote such a stupid thing. Polygamy makes way more sense, people! He’s a Targaryen, after all. The only way I can see myself slightly forgiving D&D for the annulment is if they say the kids are still legitimate. As for Dany and Drogo and Jon and Ygritte, I hate Dany’s marriage to Drogo and don’t care for Jon’s relationship with Ygritte. Drogo was Dany’s rapist. To ship a child with the man who rapes her every night… it would be like shipping Laurent with the Regent in Captive Prince. Abhorrent. Disgusting. Jon x Ygritte is not nearly as bad, but there’s still a consent issue. He starts sleeping with her to prove he gave up being a crow. While I loathe Khal Drogo and cheered when Dany finally killed him, I kinda liked Ygirtte. At certain points, I nearly shipped Jon x Ygritte. 

As for Jonerys, I’ll write a piece about them when the season is over. It’s one of my main OTPs, but I want to celebrate them being officially canon by writing about them then. 

[occupyvenus]

Dragonstone vs. the Iron Throne

Apperently there was some “discourse” over wether or not the D deserves to come “home”, about wether or not she even has the right to call Dragonstone and Westeros her home in the first place. Many D-critics argue that she is essosi by all means, while many D-fans argue against that. I actually have to agree with some D-fans here (sort of). It’s not her fault that she was forced to live in exile all her life. She considers herself westerosi and she sees Dragonstone as her family seat. (maybe don’t use her original valyrian, essosi heritage to undermine the imperial undertones of her rule in slavers bay, when she clearly doesn’t see herself as essosi) It does smell a bit of victim-blaming to outright deny her that wish and motivation. She has as much the right to fight for the place she was born in as Sansa, Arya, Bran and Jon (he wasn’t born in Winterfell, but he grew up there... so).   

But here’s the thing:

If her main goal was to reclaim her ancestral home of Dragonstone, I would tell her to kick Stannis out of her castle. Seriously. If she wanted to return as Lady of Dragonstone, accepting the rebellions legitimacy, with the intention of reestablishing House Targaryen in the new political landscape, I would see no reason to object. 

This would be highly improbable, but completely impossible? Maybe. Maybe not. If Aegon and Rhaenys had lived, they would have probably been allowed to live with their mother in Dorne or more likely as wards (read “hostages”) to the Baratheons or another loyal family, under the condition of denouncing their right to the Iron Throne and bending the knee once they were of age. Robert didn’t begrudge Tywin for butchering “dragonseed”, but I don’t think he would have killed them after taking the throne, against Ned’s and Jon Arryn’s objections. What better way to fortify the new rulers claim than having the old ones swear fealty to them? Maybe, just maybe, something similar would have been possible for the D as well? 

Roberts hate for the Targaryens would have made this near impossible, so does Joffreys and Cerseis lunacy, but when Tommen was king? The death of Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon, the assasination attempts on Viserys and the D don’t exactly pave the way for a peacefull resolution neither, I admit that. (Though (showverse) she was working on getting Khal Drogo to invade the seven kingdoms when Robert send someone to poison her. Maybe she shouldn’t ask “King Robert still wants me dead? I thought he’d leave me alone now that my brother is gone...” while plotting to conquer the Seven Kingdoms with the help of her warlord husband for the entire episode. I mean, she asks Jorah when the Dothraki will finally start their invasion, being frustrated about it taking so long, just before meeting the wine seller. Yeah, Khaleesi, why does he want you dead? Questions, questions... But I digress.) All of this woud change the story drastically, it depends on so many characters decisions, so many variables that I don’t dare to predict and it’s an highly unlrealistic, utopian idea anyway (I’m aware of that). After all the realities of this aren’t what I want to talk about here. I will leave that to people with better understanding of westerosi and feudal politics. What’s important to me here, is the underlying sentiment of the D returning to Westeros. 

She doesn’t just want to return to her home, she doesn’t even first and foremost see taking the Iron Throne as a necessary evil to do so. She wants to rule the Seven Kingdoms, she sees that as her birthright. Returning to her home and ruling are the same thing in her mind. She is ready to fight for that with fire and blood and a dothraki horde, right from the beginning until landing in Westeros. If all she really wanted was “home”, as many D-fans like to point out, wouldn’t she at least entertain any possible peaceful way to do so? Even if she had to dismiss it as impossible for so many reasons? She doesn’t acknowledge Robert’s rebellion as a justified uprising against her tyrannical father, she sees it as a crime against her family. Even after admitting that her father was a mad-man, it never influences her believe that she still is the rightful heir. She still sees herself as the rightful ruler and the Baratheons as usurpers, regardless of her fathers crimes. You could excuse her view on the matter as a result of all the propaganda Viserys fed her, but does it really matter where her believes come from, if she never questions them? If she still acts on them without second thoughts? 

Never spending one day of her adult life in Westeros doesn’t diminish her right “to go home”, but it does degrade her ability to rule over the entire country. Knowing, really knowing, the place and the people is an important qualification to be a good, just ruler. (As she should have learned in Meereen and as much as I hate bringing real life politics into discussions like this, even today you have to be born, have citizenship and/or have lived in a certain country for a long time to hold high political offices.)

Her fathers overthrow and her following exile doesn’t render her longing for home meaningless and it doesn’t make her a hypocrite for feeling that way. But it does take away her “birthright” to rule over everyone else. My problem is that she never really doubts the legitimacy of her claim to the Iron Throne. At best, she sees her father as the one bad apple of the Targaryen dynasty, without questioning the legitimacy of her families rule in the first place. She never really recognizes that the targs were foreign invaders to begin with. She thinks being a “dragon” justifies her rule, or at least, taking what she wants with fire and blood. I hope I don’t have to get into how problematic it is, to subdue a nation just because you have the means to do so. To believe, you have the inherent right to do so, because you can. 

I don’t deny her right to her home, I deny her right to the Iron Throne. What I question is her ambition to raise herself over everyone else. Not her wish to live on the same grounds as her ancestors. That’s the difference between taking Dragonstone vs. taking the Iron Throne. Even if it would come down to the same actions, because she can’t have one without the other, the distinction in her motivations behind it are, to me, very important.  The D isn’t a “better Targaryen”, she’s working with the same toxic mindset as her ancestors. 

[warsofasoiaf]

You talked about the loyal primarchs, what about the rebel ones? What flaws do each one have that may led them to betrayal?

One of the big things I see with the Traitor Primarchs is their self-absorbed nature, and their arrogance believing themselves to not need caution or restraint. They also often succumbed to desires of personal satisfaction and gratification, even the most petty sort. I’ve made some notes here, and I’ve highlighted what I think to be excellent pieces of villain crafting.

Fulgrim is one of the worst, obsessed as he was with perfection to the point of embracing anything that would improve him. In the legion’s sense, this drive was off-putting for the other legions and led to egotists like Lucius gaining rank over humbler, effective officers. In the personal sense led to falling under the sway of the Laer Blade, paying no heed to the warnings. His ego led him to be easily susceptible to flattery and manipulation by Horus, as well as trying to convince stubborn, loyal Ferrus because he believed he couldn’t possibly fail. When Ferrus and he came to blows, his ego led to his possession, and his refusal to own up to his killing of his brother and best friend led to his possession. Fulgrim is the unhealthy fixation on narcissism weaponized into ego, to the point where he murders people for not being sufficiently awed by him.

Perturabo’s casual brutality is often at odds with his desire to be an artist, architect, and craftsman. His self-control is very poor, as he frequently lashed out in rage by killing completely uninvolved people. Resigned to drudgery, Perturabo increasingly resorted to brutal pleasures to derive satisfaction from his unfulfilling life. His perfectionist drive was not as bad as Fulgrim’s, but he still decimated his legion for failing to live up to his standards when he first met them (thus, they didn’t know what standards they were failing). Certainly, Perturabo was crapped on and disrespected for performing vital but unglamorous jobs in warfare, but his pettiness in his affairs were his own doing. This resentment built up to the point where the Iron Warriors became the drudge that Perturabo feared, throwing men at the walls and refusing to take advice either from his brothers or sons like Warsmith Dantioch. Finally unable to rein in his hate, he ravaged his own planet and believing that he would never be forgiven, joined Horus and indulged in every sort of petty revenge seeking that he could.

Konrad Curze is interesting because while he did betray the Emperor, he did not embrace the Chaos Gods and even during Angels of Caliban, believed that he was acting within his nature, and there’s no reason to believe that he was not telling the truth. Whether or not that’s the case, Konrad was always the way he was, brutal and terrifying. Konrad is the man who sees no problem with visiting atrocity upon the atrocious, with bringing evil to evil. The problem of course, is that he takes it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner. Certainly, Konrad is a more unique case, given that his visions showed him all of the horrors of his later life including his own death, which did not do his sanity any favors. Konrad seemed to bring the torment within his own mind out, hunting, harming, killing, terrorizing, all crimes were deserving of the same brutal punishment. Konrad is an altogether insidious twist of martyrdom, sacrificing the self by becoming the monster in order to stop other monster, but Konrad ultimately became worse, and viewed the Night Lords not as an army to achieve objectives, but a scourge sent to punish anyone for failing to live up to impossible standards.

“What would you know of struggle, Perfect Son? When have you fought against the mutilation of your mind? when have you had to do anything more than tally compliances and polish your armour?” […] “The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave. Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilization to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one of us was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom? And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives? Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom which enslaves you, no matter that their armies outnumber yours by ten-thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.”

Angron is one of the best-characterized of the Traitor Primarchs and his weakness is on full display in Betrayer. His speech to Roboute Guilliman (above) was one of the finest pieces of characterization I’ve seen in the Horus Heresy novels because of how well it explains Angron’s personality and ultimately, how pathetic he is. Angron is everyone who blamed other people for the misfortunes he had in life, who hates and resents everyone and believes that they did not work hard or strive to earn anything that they have. While it is certainly true that he was enslaved and forced to fight for the amusement of the aristocracy on his homeworld, he spits at Guilliman and believes that Guilliman never had to put effort into the 500 worlds of Ultramar. Similarly, he doesn’t think Sanguinius, who grew up on a radiation-blasted hellscape hunted by packs of mutant cannibals, or Lion El’Jonson who grew up for ten years alone being hunted by demons, ever had to struggle in their lives. Similarly, while he rails against the forcible implantation of the Butcher’s Nails into his brain (a great injustice certainly), it didn’t stop him from doing the same to his own legion. More than any other Primarch, Angron constantly blames others for circumstances they had no control over, or for problems of his own devising. Angron is a great warrior but a weak man whose fall to Chaos was largely borne out of his refusal to believe that despite his rough circumstances, he was still accountable for his own actions.

Mortarion’s social Darwinism, contempt for civilians, and arrogance certainly wouldn’t endear him to many, and his bigotry of psykers made Leman Russ look like a rational if suspicious guy. Mortarion’s resentment of E-Money saving his life killing his adoptive father was fairly bog-standard, and on its own, almost certainly was not going to cause him to fall to Chaos. Mortarion’s bigotry and greed appear to be the chief motivators of his fall. He considered the Emperor to be a massive hypocrite for being a psyker and for using Warp-tech to create the Primarchs, but he was hoping for the Emperor and Horus to kill each other so he could take the top job, as Jaghatai Khan calls him out on when they speak on Prospero in Scars, just as he called him out for corraling the psykers only to be on the side who embraces psychic powers, rampant mutation, and uncontrolled warpcraft.

Magnus’s chief flaw was his massive ego that he believed he didn’t require caution. He made pacts with Tzeentch from the beginning to save his Legion from the Flesh-Change, studied much in the ways of the Warp, continued psyker studies in secret after Nikaea, and broke down the Imperial Webway, all out of the belief that he knew what he was doing, that he could control what he was doing, and that he thought out all the possible angles. This sort of pride was Magnus’s downfall, because he never took measures to ensure that should things not work out, that he could mitigate the damages. It’s always a mistake to believe that you will experience no setbacks or make no mistakes, and so when Magnus did, he couldn’t handle the problems.

Horus’s fixation was ego, pride, and jealousy. He was suspicious that mankind itself would be leading the Imperium that he had fought for, rather than accepting civilian control (or even in making an effort to transition himself to a non-military leadership role the way Rogal Dorn or Roboute Guilliman did). Convinced of his own exceptional nature, when the Emperor did not divulge any information about the Webway to him, Horus took it personally and acted out of spiteful jealousy. Horus is the villain who gets angry when being shut out, angry that other people have different ideas, angry that people won’t see everything his way. His egocentrism made him take every time he was not included to be a specific slight, and this is a fantastic trait for villains and secondary antagonists alike.

Lorgar’s flaw was that he was so desiring to have faith in something, that he never bothered to wonder whether or nor that something was worth having faith in. Having his faith shattered by the Emperor was a big blow, but for all the Emperor’s brutality, rigid dogma, and inability to relate to humanity, the Chaos Gods are concepts taken to such immortal extremes that they can’t be done by humanity either. Lorgar wanted nothing more than to devote himself to something greater, but along the way of his desire for meaning, he forsook the idea of “greater” being “better” to simply being “larger,” largely out of a desire to feel validated in his service.

Alpharius is different, because of the whole “aid Chaos to destroy Chaos” plot. He may or may not have been a secret loyalist, because he attacked his own allies as much as the loyalists, and complicating matters even more is whether Omegon believed in the same ideology. So unfortunately, we don’t know what Alpharius’s goals were, given that Rogal Dorn killed him near Pluto in Praetorian, and whether Omegon is merely pretending to be Alpharius, has actually assumed Alpharius’s goals, or is seeking only to survive. Given the de-centralized nature of the Alpha Legion, the fact that many of them have wholeheartedly joined Chaos is not an indicator of Omegon’s allegiances as it would be for the other Primarchs.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[computerguideworld-blog]

How Game Of Thrones Ends Based On Computer Simulations

New Post has been published on https://computerguideto.com/must-see/how-game-of-thrones-ends-based-on-computer-simulations/

How Game Of Thrones Ends Based On Computer Simulations

We love Game Of Thrones, but it’s not without its flaws. So we ran a 100-percent accurate simulation to see how the story would have played out if the characters didn’t spend half their time sleeping around, torturing each other, and talking about their feelings. The highly advanced technology we used was Nintendo’s Advance Wars: Dual Strike, a 2005 video game about anime characters fighting with tanks.

No gratuitous boobs in this, but we’re sure somebody on the internet has fixed that by now.

We created a map, let the game’s artificial intelligence run amok, and watched as years of rambling storytelling were ruthlessly condensed into 38 minutes of all-out warfare. We also got drunk, watched porn, and grew beards, for maximum authenticity.

So here’s Westeros, which most of you know better than your own country:

And here’s our perfect 1:1 recreation:

*Play for full effect*

The Starks and their allies are red, the White Walkers are blue, and the Lannister-Tyrell alliance is green. Dorne and the Freys’ Twins start off neutral, while Stannis is cut because being overlooked is his lot in life. The Iron Islands are represented on the side, but the Greyjoys aren’t, because the only thing they’ve achieved in five seasons is one very uncomfortable fingering scene, and that can’t be recreated on a Nintendo console until Bayonetta 3 is released.

Across the ocean is Essos, where Daenerys (yellow) has spent five years yelling about slaves while acting entirely with her impressive eyebrows. Here’s her part of the world:

Mother of dragons, first of her name, breaker of chains, protector of pixels.

Now we need to create the Advanced Wars equivalent of 20,000 bearded men who want to kill each other. Game Of Thrones has more political factions than most real countries: Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, Tyrells, Martells, the Night’s Watch, white walkers, wildlings, the Targaryens, the dozens of interchangeable one-dimensional villains Daenerys has butchered, rogue actors like Littlefinger, that kid who’s way too old to be breastfeeding, and on and on and on. But because most of them are ultimately irrelevant — just like in real life — so we’re chopping this story down to the essentials. First up are the Starks, whose 18,000 men were mostly peasants with pointy objects. So assuming each unit represents 2,000 men, here’s what Robb’s forces look like:

“Nine’s more than enough to invite to a wedding, right?”

The thing that looks like a duck with wheels represents his mounted units, while the soldiers carrying poster rolls / RPG launchers are his knights. And just to his north is a horde of white walkers, which we’ll assume have overrun the wildlings. As for Team Lannister, they start with 20,000 well-trained and equipped soldiers, as well as a small navy …

… while Daenerys has 8,000 Unsullied, 2,000 mercenaries, other miscellaneous soldiers, and three dragons represented by stealth bombers. See, our high-end simulation technology is flawless.

Right down to the dragons’ baffling decision to not simply eat every fleshy human and rule the planet their damn selves.

Snow falls as the war begins, and the very first thing the Starks do is march 2,000 men north to Castle Black and kill 1,000 white walkers.

“You know murder, Jon Snow.”

Fuck. Yes. The walkers were teased from the very first scene of the very first episode, only for 47 more hours to pass before Jon killed a single one. But there are no stories about incest and long shots of people walking endlessly through the wilderness here. The Starks get down to business, taking the walker threat seriously and acknowledging that having the realm’s only line of defense against a terrifying supernatural horde be a collection of poorly-trained rapists isn’t a great idea. While Jon immediately starts the war we’ve been waiting for since episode one, Robb marches the rest of his troops toward the Twins.

It’s amazing the progress you can make in a war when you don’t wait for all your soldiers to die first.

In the show, the Lannisters dealt with their enemies mostly via political machinations and cunning plots. But our Lannister AI said to hell with all that. They also march on the Twins, as well as sending Jaime and Bronn with 4,000 men to take Dorne by force …

… and two assassins equipped with wildfire (represented by remote bombs) straight at the heart of Dany’s forces.

Where, in keeping with the law of the land, they stop and wait while other people do shit.

Dany, meanwhile, sends one team to take Qarth while the rest of her troops march on Meereen, condensing four seasons of wandering and whining into one bold move.

Fire cannot kill a dragon, but boredom can.

So to recap, after a single day of combat, Jon is in charge of the Night’s Watch and leading the battle against the walkers (which, on the show, happened in season five), Robb is at the Twins (season two), Dany’s taking Qarth (season two) and Meereen (seasons three through five), while the Lannisters and Tyrells are actively engaging both of them with actual military tactics (season hasn’t-happened-yet). But while our simulation is cutting the show’s fat, it retains its flair for sudden and dramatic deaths. Sorry, Kit Harington groupies, but the light goes out of Jon’s beautiful doe eyes on Day Two.

“For the article.”

He exploded, and then his corpse vanished, so there’s no convenient resurrection or Jesus metaphors for him. But he takes thousands of walkers with him, and it fulfills something Jon predicted in the show — that the Night’s Watch could survive one night of attacks, but not two. Things go better for the Starks south of the Wall, as Robb, free from the sexy distractions of Charlie Chaplin’s granddaughter, begins his conquest of the Twins.

Amazing what you can get done when you keep your Little Tramp all zipped up.

No sooner do the Starks lay claim than the Lannisters massacre 2,000 of them in a single gruesome day. In no dimension is holing up with Walder Frey a good move.

“The Lannisters send their fuck yous.”

Meanwhile, their wildfire-armed assassins bring Dany’s dragons to the brink of death, and they wipe out three-quarters of her Unsullied in the process — a tactic that is shockingly more effective than one glass of bad wine and Jorah Mormont’s fickle boner.

The Unsullied’s nonexistent boners were simply no match.

Dany responds by merging her dragons into one three-headed terror with some horrible arcane magic and then, ugh, retreating to Meereen and Qarth to rebuild / sit around and grimace. So just like in the show, we get one awesome dragon moment, followed by a whole lot of nothing.

With pixels, it was too hard to tell if she shit herself this time.

On the third day of conflict, the Lannisters and the Starks start their epic battle …

… while the white walkers seize Castle Black. We’re three episodes into the Nintendo DS version of Game Of Thrones, and while there are no tits (a feature we are supplementing by browsing “Busty Asian Beauties” while the simulation runs), everything else is way more awesome.

Aside from Joffrey still running amok instead of choking on poison and vomit.

On the following day, Daenerys flies her hydra-dragon over Dorne, an important world event the Starks and Lannisters completely fail to take note of because they’re too busy massacring each other.

Had the real Daenerys thought of this, George R. R. Martin could’ve moved on to not finishing a whole other series years ago.

Jaime and Bronn’s troops capture Dorne by standing on it, which is slightly more realistic than the fights they got into there in the show:

“First take, nailed it. Cut!”

The Starks are forced to give up ground at the Twins to hold the Wall …

… while Dany’s King Ghidorah kills 200 of Jaime and Bronn’s men.

You make Jaime fight without Brienne constantly saving his ass, and look what happens.

Despite all the awesome action happening elsewhere — a three-headed dragon attacks a city held by two fan favorites — the camera decides to focus on Meereen, where absolutely nothing occurs. Huh, it’s weird that season five’s storylines play out exactly the same in both versions. It’s a great tactic, though — Dany announces her intimidating presence to Westeros with an attack on the one stronghold that resisted her distant ancestors. That will get her more support than five years of sitting around and grumbling ever could.

Over the next few days, the Starks hold Castle Black but lose the Twins to the superior numbers and resources of the Lannisters, Dany expands her holdings in the East, and Jaime and Bronn flee Dany’s dragon, which moves on to harassing Highgarden. The Starks are confined to the North, but there’s a glimmer of hope — the Lannisters land 4,000 men at the Wall, in an apparent sign that they’re willing to put aside their differences and battle the Walker horde …

… Kidding! The Lannisters immediately attack the Starks, right in front of the horde of ice monsters that want to kill them all and rule their corpses. Which is absolutely what a bitter, vengeful, and drunk Cersei would do. For her, it’s better to see the world destroyed than to see her enemies succeed. And all their attack does is benefit the walkers, as there are now even fewer good men standing between them and civilization.

If you can’t trust an incestuous, murdering wino, who can you trust?

With that incredibly destructive act, everyone in the Seven Kingdoms must be cheering for Daenerys’ dragon to slay the short-sighted Lannisters and save Westeros. So it’s a bit anti-climactic when the exhausted dragon runs out of energy, crashes, and dies. Maybe don’t take your storytelling cues from this particular event, George.

The dragon is exactly how Martin feels after writing more than ten words a day.

Still, Daenerys soldiers on, taking most of Essos with good old-fashioned soldiers alone.

No Unsullied victory teabaggings, cause, you know …

The Starks and the Watch successfully repel the Lannisters in the North, while in the South, Moat Cailin continues to hold out remarkably well (just like in the show). But their numbers are depleted, which means …

… the white walkers are south of the wall for the first time in 8,000 years, and we’re still in season one. The Lannisters are able to occupy Winterfell, the seat of their most hated enemy, but it’s a Pyrrhic victory. The walkers soon push them out and seize the North, and with the new resources available to them, they start fielding tanks. We shall assume these tanks are undead. Thanks a lot, Cersei.

Shame! Shame! Shame!

Arya may have escaped and Sansa is probably being sexually assaulted somewhere, but otherwise, the Starks are dead. The last hurrah by the North is a screaming kamikaze attack on the walkers led by Ramsay Bolton — an oddly heroic yet sufficiently crazy way for the show’s most hated character to make his exit. The Lannisters and walkers begin fighting, while Dany builds boats, lands her vanguard, and finds the southern half of Westeros almost completely undefended.

Everyone was distracted while mourning the tragic death of the guy who castrated dudes and raped girls.

She immediately marches on King’s Landing and defeats the remainder of Jaime and Bronn’s weary soldiers.

Sisters and prostitutes everywhere are inconsolable.

Jaime dies in the city he saved, at the hands of the daughter of the madman he saved it from. It’s a dramatically satisfying conclusion to his character, and it begins the great Targaryen-Lannister-Frost-Monster War. The Lannisters are able to rally their troops and defend King’s Landing, but at too much of a cost. The white walkers march to the Twins and start slaughtering them. It’s unclear if the dying soldiers are able to grasp the narrative irony and thematic significance of being massacred there.

“The Braaaaains Of Castamere.”

Dany lands additional troops and makes another attempt at King’s Landing, and the Lannisters are unable to fight off her naval assault — as they did Stannis’ on the show — because they blew their wildfire on their assassination attempt. On Day 22 of the conflict, Daenerys captures King’s Landing:

With the Mother of Ghidorah on the Iron Throne, the Lannister and Tyrell armies disband and their cities declare their loyalty to the new Queen. At this point, the walkers have overrun the North, but Daenerys has the heartland of Westeros and the combined might of Essos behind her. It’s numbers versus resources, with the only question being how efficiently those resources will be used. So it’s the fight the show has been hinting at for years, reached in under half an hour of simulation time.

The “Previously On Game Of Thrones” intro will be nothing but an ad for the one-disc complete series DVD.

To avoid being overrun, Dany immediately retreats to build her forces and otherwise sit around doing nothing, because while you can take the queen out of the shitty plotline, you can’t take the shitty plotline out of the queen. But Daenerys’ decision also highlights her ruthless side: She lets King’s Landing fall to the white walkers, the entire capital city slaughtered and zombified merely so she can rally her troops.

We’re starting to think she might hold a grudge.

But it works. The Queen gets her army, lines it up along the banks of the Trident — where the Targaryen dynasty fell in the first place after Daenerys’ older brother died in battle — and now she’s either going to restore her family’s name or doom the land to a reign of endless darkness.

Or spend three more seasons sitting around debating which is better.

It’s the final epic struggle, with every character who’s survived to this point putting aside their differences to battle a supernatural threat to their very species. Turns out they don’t need a dragon at their backs, because the true dragon … is teamwork.

The battle takes almost as long as the rest of the war combined, but Daenerys does it. They retake King’s Landing. Fictional humanity is saved!

“It’s Queen’s Landing now. Any objections? No, didn’t think so.”

From there, she drives the white walkers back beyond the Wall, then marches into the far North and topples their frozen stronghold. The Seven Kingdoms are reunited, and their greatest threat is destroyed.

Her traditional warrior garb of a red ball cap, power suit, and half-undershirt struck mortal fear into her enemies.

Oh, and Bran got eaten by zombies at the start of all this, because no one cares about him.

The end!

So there you have it. The dragons are a paper tiger, and Dany will become Queen not through their power, but by giving Westeros what it’s lacked for so long: a ruler willing to unite people against true evil. Jon will give his life fighting the white walkers. Jaime will die trying to redeem himself in the eyes of the people he loves. The Lannisters, in their arrogance, will fail to learn from the mistakes of the Starks. History repeats itself, as the final battle occurs on the same ground where this conflict began years ago. And, most importantly, a decade-old Nintendo game can tell an epic story more efficiently than a big-budget HBO series.

For more 100 percent not wrong insights into ‘Game Of Thrones,’ check out 6 Insane (but Convincing) ‘Game of Thrones’ Fan Theories and 19 Game of Thrones Plot Twists That Would BreakTthe Internet.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel, and check out The Definitive Answer To Game Of Thrones’ Biggest Mystery , and other videos you won’t see on the site!

Also, follow us on Facebook, and let’s get as drunk as a Baratheon or something.

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/