#anti noa x jen

[phantomoftheorpheum]

hi!! 😊 i liked that christian was a major red herring. it was nice to be validated even though i was expecting it. i like christian but i think he is a little too similar to tabby to be interesting as a love interest. they are the male and female versions of each other 🤣

johnny deserved better. although i think he was a little too understanding with imogen at times, he knew she was going through it and i respect him for that. the way she demanded to see his texts and look at his search history was such a red flag. of course i get it in this context but irl that would not be okay. maybe imogen need to be single for a while.

i don’t like jen. i will never like jen. she’s manipulative and a liar. i will never excuse how she deflected and made noa the bad guy in the conversation where noa attempted to confront her about robbing shawn’s house. how their shippers ignore that problematic behavior is beyond me. i’m sad that she will be in season 3. at least i’m not alone in this as i’ve seen a lot of people complaining about this ship in the pll original sin instagram comments. i hope the writers hear our complaints. it has made noa my least favorite liar when i used to love her.

Hi! I agree!

You are so right about Christian! I should have trusted my 2x01/2x02 gut that he was a red herring, but then I got so suspicious of the fact that no one was suspicious of him when they obviously should be. jksdhfksdf. I'm still baffled by how Tabby didn't think to put either Wes or Christian on their original suspect list, considering their love of horror and the masks stuff, but I'm just gonna have to learn to accept that. I'm glad Christian was good too, though. I never wanted him to be bad, just was very suspicious he might be. They definitely gave him some dialogue that pointed his way. But he was a good red herring! He worked until the finale when they started getting suspicious and then I knew it wasn't him.

I have said it once and I will say it again, Johnny is quite literally the chillest dude on the planet (😂 this will never stop being funny to me, I am sorry). I'm also glad that he's not bad because I think he's an enjoyable addition to the cast and I hope he is in next season (again, assuming they get a next season) because we still know almost nothing about him, so they could do a lot of fun things with his character. But I do think Imogen needs to take some time, regardless of the Johnny stuff (I mean, he really should NOT want to date her ever again because she nearly killed him??) because this was a mess. I also think all the girls (but particularly Imogen and Tabby) do still need mental healthcare, but obviously not with Dr. Sullivan.

Aaaaahhh, the Jen stuff. I just kept thinking there was going to be some sort of reveal/resolution that made the Jen stuff feel like it worked in the season and had a reason to be there. I had so many possible scenarios I was willing to accept. and yet, they managed to find one which was none of them??? I can't believe I sat through so much love triangle crap for literally no payout. I hate love triangles and the only redeeming quality is that they usually have a big blowout scene when it all comes out, but they didn't even give us that???? It will be interesting (assuming they get a season 3) to see if they respond to the criticism like they did with the Ezra thing, because a lot of people feel Noa's carelessness about the situation (and she was super, super manipulative towards Shawn throughout this, as well) ruined her character for them. Now, I think it's fine to tear a character down and need to build them back up, and I think it's good to see the Liars engage in flawed behavior, the problem I have here is... they (the show) have given no indication that they think they actually DID tear Noa's character down? Like, I am sorry, but her behavior was flat out cruel and she felt a tiny bit bad about it for like 2 seconds and faced absolutely 0 consequences, and that, not that she made some terrible decisions, is the real problem here. It's not "tearing a character down to build them back up" or even "giving a character flaws" if those things are never acknowledged as flaws and terrible behavior in the first place? Ugh. There was just so much potential with this storyline (literally so much!) and they just threw it all straight in the trash.

[fandomcentral101]

My only issue with Jenoa is the cheating plots

[phantomoftheorpheum]

I don't love the Noa cheating thing, but I guess within the plot it kinda makes sense with her having more in common with Jen than she does with Shawn. Like Jen understands what she's dealing with more than Shawn could (even if he wanted to) simply because she's experienced it with her mom. Definitely wondering if it's going to play into her test somehow. The truth coming out or having to choose between the two in a way

This got kind of lengthy (lol, no one has been surprised less), so I've placed most of it under the cut. Also to help avoid detailed spoilers for people who are trying to do so.

I agree that the plot isn't necessarily a bad one for the story (like I've mentioned a million times that I don't like love triangles or infidelity plots, but they can be executed well, and depending on how this situation turns out, I'm still open to being okay with the plot line in theory), just one that makes me feel highly critical of the characters involved. And personally a bit sad, as Noa was my favorite in season 1 and I can't currently honestly say that in season 2.

I can definitely see why Jen (or even just the situation surrounding Jen) is more exciting & appealing to Noa, particularly at this time. She's a teenager who has been in a fairly steady long term (by teenage standards) relationship with a stable, but possibly slightly boring, guy. Noa formed a connection with Jen when she was at a low point (taking the fall for her mom), and the kind of bond that you can create when you're spending so much time with someone outside of your normal context can be intense. And Jen is a secret (at least we have not seen Noa tell anyone else about their romantic connection), which is thrill seeking and a little "dangerous," without (usually) actually being that dangerous. Jen is mysterious. There's a lot Noa doesn't know about her (illustrated clearly by her having no concept of Jen's father or her relationship with him prior to this episode). And I do agree that some of the closeness Noa feels to Jen has to do with their commonalities and relationships with their moms. Jen gets the stigma of having been to juvie. Jen gets what it's like to live with a mother who is an addict. Jen understands what it means to have to struggle to pay bills and be the "adult" in her household when she shouldn't have to be.

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure Jen is actually being honest about her backstory/home life at all. I certainly have some suspicions about that. It could all be true, or it also could be largely fabricated (or selectively true) in order to bond with Noa. Hard to say at this point. The reason that I doubt Jen's honesty (when I am currently giving the benefit of the doubt to Christian and Johnny) is because we've seen her lie multiple times, casually, on screen. If Christian or Johnny are also doing that, we don't know it yet. Jen's family (or her possible lies about her family) have become plot relevant with Noa borrowing money to bail Jen out for stealing from her father, so that definitely makes me question how Jen and her family (or her lies) might be important in the following episodes.

So, all that being said, while I can understand why Noa is interested in Jen (even though I would have personally much preferred a "Shawn and Noa broke up between seasons and then this girl she knows from juvie shows up at summer school" plot, just due to my own pet peeves and the reinforcement of negative stereotypes around bisexuality) the way in which she's gone about conducting herself is just really pretty shit. It's okay to fall out of love with someone. It's okay to end a relationship, not because things were bad, but because it was no longer fulfilling. It's okay to realize that you feel more attracted to and connected to someone else, and therefore it's time to reevaluate and possibly end your relationship. These things happen all the time. People still get hurt, but it's not because anyone is a villain. The problem is... Noa isn't doing any of that?

The only dissatisfaction we have seen of her relationship with Shawn this season is that he didn't go to Mouse's birthday. She also doesn't like/get along with his mom, but it's not as if Shawn was upset with her over this, he recognized and understood this issue, and even pushed back against his mother when he witnessed it in person. Noa has continued engaging in a physical/sexual relationship with Shawn (generally prompted by her), as well as a romantic one, while lying to him about her past and present relationship with Jen. She has not only shamelessly introduced him to the person she's cheating on him with, but had the audacity to play into Shawn's affection/understanding of how hard things have been with Noa's mom in order to get him to pay for Jen's bail. Two thousand dollars is a lot of money, and the fact that she could sit there, ask for that, play into how Jen is dealing with the same stuff Noa has, lie to him about why Jen was arrested in the first place, fail to mention that it was Noa's plan to steal from Jen's father, and then immediately run off to kiss Jen behind his back is... Well, it's something.

Up until 2x04, I simply felt bad for Shawn, because he (that we currently know of) hasn't done anything to deserve this, but I also thought Noa was at least a little conflicted about this situation. Her behavior in 2x04 showed absolutely no regret/remorse for her actions, which reflects absolutely terribly on her character. I was expecting at least a "I don't know if I can do this," or something after the kiss with Jen, where we see her immediately feel guilty, but nope. Just all giggles while cheating with the girl your boyfriend just spent 2k on helping out. Like forget about Shawn as person/character for a second, this is about Noa and who she is, what kind of integrity she has, and it is revealing a really heartless side to her. I hope the show has plans to try to build her back up in the future.

All that being said, (aside from the whole "bisexuals are cheaters" stereotype that is being reinforced) I think the storyline could be really interesting. Will Noa feel bad about her actions next episode when she's had a little time to reflect, or no? Is Jen being honest? Does Shawn already know? I actually think (if this is genuinely plot relevant and not just side romance drama) this whole situation could be a legitimately good use of the love triangle/infidelity plot (even though those tropes are generally not my favorite). It definitely feels like Noa has a big storm coming, and I can't say she hasn't earned it. I'm very curious to see what her test is, and how the Jen & Shawn situation will play into it. Is she going to have to make some sort of decision, like you said?

Right now, on a personal level, I do not ship any of these three with each other. I'm very pro "go sit in a corner and think about what you've done" for them atm. And if Shawn is innocent, I hope he gets a cathartic moment by the end of the season. So... that's where I'm at with it. I get it, I can see ways in which it may work for the plot, it makes me very upset with Noa as a character.

[phantomoftheorpheum]

i am just…. floored by how the writers misread how the audience would respond to jen x noa x shawn. it honestly felt so rude to make us sit through that mess the entire season but then not even resolve it in a meaningful or satisfying way? criminal. i thought we would get some villainous reveal about jen (not necessarily related to Bloody Rose) and Noa would realize how poor her decision making has been, then she would end on this low note feeling remorseful and guilty. Then we would catch up with Noa in season 3 dealing with the aftermath of it all. we never get any more info on Jen’s mother and what exactly all of this money she’s stealing for is going to. We never see Noa be self-reflective at all. Just a quick little phone call to ask Jen how to hot wire a car :)))))) this is my villain origin story. spoiler: i’m going to be the big bad next season.

You and me both!

I have seen some poor readings of the audience before in my day, but this one is way, way up there. Like... why did they make Shawn so nice until the "he punched the wall" thing? I mean, they made him absurdly nice and supportive all season. I really thought "Okay, this is either to set up a legit villain reveal for him, OR it's to dig the knife in deeper with how horribly Noa's treating him and we're supposed to be upset about it, OR it's so that when Jen is revealed as an antagonist it makes Noa's choices look even worse." But it was just... none of things? They just really didn't see how Shawn being so sweet would make audiences mad at Noa for how she treats him?

My only guess on this one is that they wanted it to be a "Shawn's really sweet, Noa's heart is just elsewhere," kind of scenario, which is FINE in theory, but because she was continuing to use him (quite literally, for money, for sex, etc.) that just feels absolutely heartless. And no one ever calls her out for it! I mean, she calls it cheating a couple of times, but everyone around her is just like "Aw, cute!" In the past, I've felt that they've handled some bad behavior by the girls poorly (like just dropping the "Tabby was filming a locker room which is super illegal and a massively violating thing to do" storyline, but at least she got yelled at by her mother. I think they didn't ever adequately address how bad that was, but at least they didn't have everyone else find out and just be cool with it), but this doesn't even feel like that, it feels like they didn't even want to acknowledge that it WAS bad behavior.

I had scenarios on top of scenarios in my head which I thought could explain this love triangle situation and give plot relevance and everything, but they took none of these paths. In my head, I thought- 1. Jen met BR online (Wes, basically) and was paid to return to Noa's life gather information/steal the phone numbers etc. (we know he was hiring "lost souls" and a girl with a record, a stealing habit, and a mother dealing with addiction could definitely apply!) 1a. She is completely financially motivated (we get a little more explanation of her relationship with her mother and the pressure she is under), and is completely using Noa to get paid. 1b. She was completely financially motivated, but now that she's back with Noa, she regrets her involvement and is trying to cover it up. 2. She is not in any way affiliated with BR, but we get some reveal like "her mom isn't really an addict and she usually does live in that big mansion and she's basically just a rich girl "slumming" it with Noa for fun." 3. She's honest (I mean, except about the stuff we know she lied about), but Shawn is working with BR or has, in some way, betrayed Noa, and they want to flip the situation on its head. 4. They kill Shawn in the finale, so even though Jen is honest, this is an issue for their relationship moving forward because of Noa's guilt about how things played out. 5. BOTH Jen and Shawn are affiliated with BR (perhaps loosely, but they are) and she has changed her mind about wanting to be involved, but since she knows Shawn is, she feels like she needs to stay in the loop to try to protect Noa- she and Shawn are basically holding each other hostage over it, because if she tells Noa he's involved, then he tells Noa about Jen's involvement and ruins their relationship (which she doesn't want to happen), and vice versa. This would explain why she is so hostile to him and is constantly undermining him with Noa, because yeah she wants to be with Noa, but she's also worried about what might happen if Noa trusts Shawn. And there are easily a hundred more scenarios! What we got is just so underwhelming and didn't address any of the questions about her character and also felt absurdly out of touch with the audience base.

I find myself looking at this plot point and it's screen time and thinking "Why, though?"

[phantomoftheorpheum]

I'm loving your PLL thoughts. I agree with most of them.

Jen and Noa came out of no where and IDK why Noa suddenly decided to turn on Shawn when they were such a cute couple (besides, I'm tired of the cheating bisexual trope).

I think that Bloody Rose is trying to make a " viral" horror movie, kinda like some killers in the Scream franchise who want to make the perfect horror plot. Is it Wes? I'm not sure. I lean more towards being someone connected to Archie and Rose Waters.

But Wes is def shitty. I didn't trust him in S1 and I don't trust him now. Major groomer vibes and "it's hard for straight white men"? Eat shit, dude. I wanted Tabby to slap him so bad at that moment lol

Thanks! I'm glad people are liking them and I'm not just flinging all my thoughts directly into a void 😅.

I had even mentally laid Shawn/Noa to rest after I saw the trailer for the season (and I thought to myself- yeah, he's nice, but he IS kinda boring, like I get why they want to do something else), but I didn't expect it to play out like this! If there's no twist here (about either Shawn or Jen), I'm going to spend the rest of forever wondering what the point was. (I mean, the answer is, it's drama, but was it worth it?)

I'm with you on the Scream comparisons! I never know if I just see them more than the others because I'm so familiar with that particular franchise, or if they actually just reference it a lot. I just don't know who to suspect of having the skill/drive to create a film if it's not Wes or Christian (or both). Do you have any ideas about who else might be doing this? I will fully admit that I'm stuck.

Faran got to punch Greg this season, I don't see why we can't have Tabby punching Wes! 😂

[phantomoftheorpheum]

Am I the only one who feels a lack of romantic chemistry with noa and Jen? Offscreen they have shown great friendship chemistry but I just don’t buy romance

I don't think you're alone at all. I've seen quite a few people say they don't really feel this relationship. I usually take a while to warm up to love interests anyway, but I can't say I see any blazing hot chemistry here. It's a little hard for me to tell, because the love triangle/infidelity stuff annoys me so much, it might be overpowering any other feelings I might have. 😅

[phantomoftheorpheum]

on the shawn x noa x jen stuff, there’s something i’ve been thinking about.

in season 1, noa thanks shawn for supporting her and being by her side post-juvie. she implied that they had been together before she went to juvie, he waited for her, and still continues to defend her, trust her, etc.

they became official in march just after karen’s party. she was sent to juvie after. cute, fine.

but then jen is introduced and we’re told that her and noa were together in juvie.

were noa and shawn on a break that has never been mentioned? or was she in a relationship with shawn while getting with jen in juvie? if her and shawn were on a break or something while she went to juvie, i can’t imagine why they wouldn’t have mentioned that already. yikes this is so bad…

i understand that people want queer representation but the representation needs to be good. i can’t believe how many people i’m seeing ship noa x jen without even mentioning shawn. like, can she at least break up with him? i agree, even if he turns out to be bad, noa doesn’t know that but it’s repeatedly being a terrible partner. and i’d be shocked if - like you said, noa’s challenge wasn’t related to the love triangle.

Okay, so I went back to check my facts. I think the implication is that Shawn & Noa were genuinely a couple while she was in juvie (but maybe not completely official?) because in 2x02 Jen asks, "...what ever happened to that guy you were seeing when we were in juvie?" and Noa responds, "Shawn." And I don't see why they would bring it up like this (like they could have had Jen say something like, "Hey, what ever happened with you and that guy you told me you had a crush on when we were in juvie?") if they didn't want it to feel like Noa's past with Jen is illicit. So I'm also assuming Noa & Shawn's relationship is not open (seems like they would have mentioned this considering Noa's plot this season) and therefore this is just fully cheating. Also, this explains why she doesn't tell any of the other girls about this- if Jen was just a past relationship, Noa wouldn't have a reason to keep it a secret from them, but if her past with Jen means she was cheating on Shawn... Well, that's a different story.

I do think the timeline is a little muddled, because I don't think they planned any of this from the beginning, but it definitely seems like they're doubling down on the "Noa and Shawn were exclusively together when she met Jen" version of events.

And I'm with you. The reinforcement of negative stereotypes of bisexuality really bothers me, too. While, in universe, Noa cheating on Shawn (and treating him the way she has been this season) wouldn't be any better/worse if she were doing it with another guy instead (was Noa confirmed as bi or pan or anything in season 1 because I don't remember it?) the show making a choice to portray her character in a way that unavoidably (even if unintentionally) links her sexuality to her lack of loyalty is disappointing.

Shawn may turn out to be evil, but man is this storyline brutal for him regardless. I honestly can't root for Noa/Shawn as a couple at all, because if he's a bad guy, then obviously I don't want them together, but if he's a good guy then he deserves so much better. I can't root for Noa/Jen either, because this relationship is built upon lies and deceit and a serious disregard for another person's feelings. Honestly I think Noa needs to take a romantic break and reevaluate what she wants, who she wants to be, and how to proceed with a healthy relationship, but this is a dramatic tv show, so odds of that happening seem low.

[phantomoftheorpheum]

You’re analysis are 10/10. It’s annoying me how the show page and actresses are stuffing jen nap “rep” down our throat I’m Bi I don’t want that stereotype rep! This is so reberto

Thank you! I genuinely find the marketing/framing of a lot of stuff related to this plot confusing. Within the context of the show, they're going out of their way to make this horrible for a character whose niceness they keep emphasizing (Shawn), but then the entire sequence of Noa breaking things off with Jen really felt directed/edited/acted in a way that signaled that we're meant to feel genuinely sad about this (like they're both crying/in pain), which just feels like very mixed messaging to me. Idk what to think about the marketing/socials. It would be far from the first time someone has used LGBTQ+ rep to sell a show, while also reinforcing harmful stereotypes and making those characters (and specifically their relationship) seem morally corrupt. (Here's the thing- everyone in PLL is liar, they all make mistakes, but by choosing this particular plot line, they have directly tied to the introduction of Noa's bisexuality to her infidelity, and they absolutely didn't have to do that). It feels so out of touch with the rest of the show, though, which clearly makes a point to call out a lot of negative stereotyping in media. The way this has played out so far has me kind of baffled, tbh. When I saw the initial marketing for this season, I expected Shawn to just be written out pretty early and that would have been fine.

[phantomoftheorpheum]

Your analysis of noa arc was fantastic! It honestly doesn’t make any sense this At all and seems ooc to be honest. yes the danger is exciting but she adored shawn before all this she lived with him 6 months and as you said she STILL seeks him out for kisses and sex and while some think it’s so he doesn’t get suspicious of lack of sex I doubt it because he trusts her that much . What did you think of new ep with her?

Thanks, I’m glad you enjoyed my ramblings! I do feel like one of Noa’s defining character traits last season was her fierce loyalty, and it feels like they’ve really undermined that about her in this season. I think it would be more understandable (not justified, but understandable) if we saw her being unhappy in her relationship more, but I’ve really not gotten that from their scenes. I do think we see that Noa is conflicted in the new episode (doesn’t excuse her behavior, but at least she’s slightly less flippant about it in 2x05). I get the impression that she’s trying to convince herself that she loves Shawn (romantically), and that is part of the reason she’s seeking physical comfort from him, but that she knows her feelings have shifted. I can understand why she would cling to one of the only stable relationships in her life, even if the romance/attraction has waned. Shawn has been wonderful to her (again, that we know of), so logically she may be struggling with understanding the way her feelings have changed. Or maybe she does still love him romantically and she’s just struggling with the lack of “excitement” and newness in their relationship. Regardless, while I am doing my best to understand her, I also really hate how she’s handled everything, and I DO feel they’ve somewhat retconned her character.

I’ll have my full 2x05 analysis up soon!