#atla discourse

[blackholezyy]

When you’re technically part of the group but the writers and fandom keep forgetting about you:

[theweeklydiscourse]

My trouble with Kataang is that the development of their romantic subplot is totally Aang-centric. Before you say: “Well duh, he’s the main character” consider that a good romance needs to involve both sides of the relationship and ideally delve into both of their respective feelings for one another. Katara’s perspective is almost entirely absent from the development of Kataang, save for a few vague musings and a blush here and there. What, romantically speaking, attracts her to Aang? When did she first realize her feelings for him? How does she balance those feelings with their chaotic situation?

I can only guess the answers to these questions because the show provides us with very little concrete evidence that could help us understand Kataang. On the opposite end, we can absolutely pinpoint Aang’s feelings for Katara and track how they shifted over the course of the show. His feelings for Katara are loud and narratively relevant, but the same can’t be said for Katara. Her side of the relationship is ignored until the very last moment.

[sokkastyles]

"But Gyatso was only talking about spreading his teachings! How dare you say that a victim of genocide and colonialism is condoning those things!"

Here's the thing, friends: Gyatso is not real. The Air Nomads are not real. Nor is the Fire Nation, Roku, the Avatar, none of them are real.

But the ideas used to justify imperialism and oppression ARE real, and it's a testament to how the quality of the writing has dropped post-series that the same franchise that produced "the Reckoning of Roku" and had Gyatso speak unironically about "going abroad and spreading their teachings" to "backwards" people also produced this:

The second is probably one of the best and most thematically meaningful speeches in the series about how people are not immune to xenophobia and toxic nationalism.

The first is actually being used in the text to support centrism. And then says nothing meaningful about pacifism and decides to focus on veganism instead, as if those were the same thing.

[waves-after-dark]

i've always liked zuko x mai in theory but thinking about mai outside of zuko, it is hard to imagine she would marry the guy who did not fight for her. it is a level of self-sacrificing on mai's part to accept this position in zuko's life that is hard to come to terms with.

maybe the mischaracterization of mai is her stoicism does not equal her self-worth. maybe she is diehard for zuko and will risk her life for him and he is okay with it.

like maybe this is their relationship.

what makes it unromantic and not the ideal love is zuko never lays his life on the line for mai. he did for someone else but i'm not going to go there.

mai and zuko deserve a better love story considering they end up together. and in the midst of how that develops there should be a moment where zuko risks everything for mai before izumi comes into the picture.

There's a weird parallel between Zuko abandoning Mai and not even thinking about rescuing her and Sokka only caring about rescuing Suki when Azula directly rubs his face in it.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i love zuko as much as anyone else but i find it so absurd that there are people out there who hates the little kid from zuko alone, because he got angry at zuko after finding out who he was.

like,, first of all, that's a child. but even that is besides the point because it would still be perfectly understandable if an adult got mad at zuko the same way.

because zuko is from the fire nation. and not just anyone from the fire nation, he's royalty, the crown prince. he is part of the people who destroyed the lives of these people. who took this kid's brother away from him and very nearly tried to take him too. of course he's going to hate zuko after realizing that he's the crown prince of the fire nation.

sure, we know that zuko is not all bad, that he wants to be better and has the capacity to be better. because we're the audience who has been following his journey from the start.

but the kid doesn't know that. all he knows is that this guy showed up out of nowhere and was nice to him, and then suddenly reveals themselves to be the head of the people who have been ruining his life.

and this is why katara haters sound so stupid too. because katara also hasn't seen zuko's entire journey or what good is in him. her anger and hatred towards him was perfectly justified, especially after she has begun to connect with him and then he backstabs her and joins azula.

people think that just because the audience is seeing a character's entire arc, that means that all of the other characters must be aware of it too. that's not how this works, the characters in a story are not omniscient. they only know what they're shown.

[xensilverquill]

[ecoterrorist-katara]

I really liked your meta about bloodbending, this is a big ask but how do you think that the whole bloodbending storyline could/should be rewritten? It’s clear that the writers are using bloodbending as a metaphor for slavery but it rarely comes across that way, and poor Hama was failed spectacularly by the writing

hello anon! thank you for this fabulous question & hope you don't mind that it took me ages to get to it.

TL;DR: I think making Hama into a serial killer/abductor was a terrible narrative choice. If it were up to me, Katara would have a (child-friendly) ethics discussion about bloodbending with Hama, who then joins them on the Day of the Black Sun. After the war, bloodbending becomes a lynchpin issue when the North attempts to colonize the South, but Hama and Yugoda find healing uses for bloodbending in the kerfuffle.

But first, my "ATLA bungled colonialism themes" soapbox: to me, bloodbending is a metaphor on two levels. The storyline about how Southern Waterbenders are captured and then transported to the FN certainly seems to reference the Transatlantic Slave Trade, like you said, though without the labour exploitation aspect; the storyline about Hama and bloodbending feels like an allegory for guerrilla resistance in general. Imo the narrative kind of cheapened these potential real-world connections by making The Puppetmaster a spooky Halloween special with a dash of “an eye for an eye” parable. The narrative's treatment of bloodbending, and Hama, feels like an unintentional reflection of “unacceptable” colonial resistance and "dark" knowledge of the colonized (fearmongering around Vodou etc). A common colonial narrative is that the colonized are sinister and underhanded for engaging in things like guerrilla warfare, which is either too violent or too cowardly depending on what’s more convenient for the colonizers’ narrative at a specific point in time. I think ATLA’s approach to bloodbending reflects this general sentiment, especially since Hama is drawn as this creepy Hansel & Gretel-style witch, a keeper of a sinister / untrustworthy / threatening type of knowledge. I also really don't like the part of the story where Hama became a serial abductor out of this indiscriminate thirst for revenge. While it's possible in real life for a colonized, incarcerated person to make those decisions, and good fiction can explore that effectively, a children's show is not the place. ATLA's target audience and general tone couldn't handle all the complexities around that, so they turned Hama into a cartoon witchy villain. Groundbreaking.

Anyway, I think the start of The Puppetmaster is actually very promising. Hama's story, and the children's discovery of her SWT roots, was touching. Katara's growing sense of unease at discovering the "darker" uses of waterbending (taking water out of flowers) is interesting. Katara is the perfect character to explore the intricacies of "how far is too far in colonial resistance." Because she's not a pacifist, like Aang, but she's also not a total pragmatist, like Sokka or Suki, and she cares about the fates of random people more than Toph. She's angry and compassionate in equal amounts.

I would love a conversation between Hama and Katara about bloodbending -- not in the dead of night while Katara has to protect her friends, but where Hama talks about the genuine hopelessness she felt in the Fire Nation prison. And Katara could talk about why she thinks bloodbending is wrong -- taking away someone's agency -- and Hama can ask Katara what she would've done in that scenario; maybe she can point out that she could have made the FN guards kill each other, but she only made them open her cell door, so it was the least violent escape she could have done; and I think, framed that way, Katara would have started to see bloodbending not through a lens of fear and disgust, but sheer pragmatism, and realize that all bending can be good or bad.

During the war, I think Katara and Sokka could convince Hama to join them on the Day of the Black Sun: Hama, for the first time in decades, has hope, and she gets to see some of the people who used to be just little kids when she was kidnapped from her home.

After the war, bloodbending would become a hot button issue in North-South relations. I could easily see the Northern waterbenders being horrified at bloodbending, in the same way Medieval Europe & puritan America have been horrified by witchcraft and other feminine-coded knowledge. I could envision the Northerners using bloodbending as justification for why women shouldn't be allowed to waterbend, and justification for why the South is backwards and therefore needs the North's influence (which would also tie nicely into the North and South comic). While Katara is busy with the political BS, Hama is swapping notes with Yugoda the healing master, and then they would eventually arrive at the conclusion that bloodbending could be used to heal.

(I can't take credit for the "Northerners horrified at bloodbending" idea, btw -- colourwhirled's Southern Lights has a storyline around it.)

Anyway, Hama deserved so much better. I like seeing her in AUs where she never had that stupid "kidnapping FN civilians" plot, like the aforementioned Southern Lights, or Lykegenia's The Things We Hide (which I read earlier this year and loved!). Hama and Jet's storylines are why I don’t trust ATLA’s politics, nor the politics of its creators. As much as I love Zuko and find his redemption arc to be an incredible story of a conscientious objector in the heart of the empire, Hama and Jet should have also gotten their redemptions too.

[sad-endings-suck]

“We need more reception arcs like Zuko’s!”

Baby girl, you couldn’t even handle Taigen.

A huge reason why Zuko has been immortalized so fervently is because ATLA came out in the mid 2000s, nearing two decades ago. With the state of basic reading comprehension, much less media literacy, social awareness, and chronically online behaviour that exists nowadays in a way it did not exist fifteen years ago, I would be surprised if the live action ATLA tv adaptation didn’t make Zuko a bit more likeable right off the bat. I’m not saying I agree with it, but if the show-runners are concerned about audiences reactions to Sokka’s (wrong, but relatively mild) sexism that exists in only the first few episodes of the show, then the idea of redeeming Zuko has got to be terrifying them. Tbh I don’t entirely blame them, even though I’m not certain it’s a good idea for the story as an adaptation.

[emma-o-yt]

Chatting about Azula redemption

Inspired by yesterday, I wanna talk about Azula redemption discourse again. Writing off people who think Azula is "too bad" or "underserving" of redemption as media illiterate or missing the point is a tad...quite...very rude.

As for what Bryke thinks:

Yay! So the creators do think Azula can be healed. I wanna discuss why people are hesitant to a Azula redemption.

Don't know who said it but there is a quote that goes like this: "give the fans what they want instead of what they think they want". Fanatics are fickle, for example: Cursed Princess Club. Prince Blaine was never even a bad guy, he just lashed out for a little bit towards the end (it's complicated).

I referred to it as the lashing out of a wounded animal. I was rooting for him however, the webtoon comments were brutal, with some even calling for him to die. I predicted that once he righted himself, the fans would pretend they never said all that icky stuff and he would become beloved. I was right.

Azula has shown that she suffered from internal pain and in The Beach, we see her feel remorse for laughing after Zuko insulted Ty Lee.

However, I think the show is also to blame. "Everyone has the capability of change" is not a notion the show subscribes to, you can see it in the interview above. Can you blame people for having a negative view when the most beloved character says this?

There's also the matter of Azula as a child being cast in as bad of a light as possible, with little to show for how Ursa hurt her. We only get told that Ursa hurt Azula but it doesn't feel true for many because we don't see it on screen.

The Search and comics are in general horribly written and make a mess of Azula's character, ableism aside.

She looks like a lunatic! Look at those bloody red lips! Is she the Joker! THIS is what Azula should look like:

She is a child.

Given that her breakdown comes so late and we get so little of her sympathetic aspects, her initial characterisation is the more familiar one. Contrast that to Vegeta:

Initially introduced as a villain with much worse crimes than Azula, after one arc he transfers over to the good guys. Not because he changes, but because of necessity. He doesn't become good until the final arc of DBZ but he was the token evil teammate longer than he was a villain and has been reformed for 30 irl years.

I find it funny that The Last Agni Kai was meant to be a tragedy that siblings are fighting but people tend to put more blame on Azula rather than her circumstances. Abusive parents tend to pit their kids against each other, making them ignore the real enemy. We shouldn't subscribe to that thinking.

I think season 3 of the cartoon was a fine way to leave her character but having her arc continued, I don't see any other way to go other than redemption or walking the earth. I can't see the satisfaction in that but who knows. If Azula's redemption arc was done well, people will accept it in open arms. Even those vehemently opposed to it.

So yeah.

[ihavea-natural-curiosity]

“Zukos the best character!” “No, Katara is!!” “it’s literally sokka!” “azula is the best!!!”

SHUT UP.

Appa is the best. bam. all character discourse solved. go home.

[tiredlylaughing]

"master your element" maybe yall should master casting brown actors idk though

[late-draft]

omg I opened Twitter and typed atla to see what's there, and one of the first things is that people somehow "don't understand" that it should be VERY obvious why Zuko is not feeling well during his return to the Fire Nation. His father burnt off half of his face, I don't know how more clear things can be, even if we disregard that he's seen first hand what the FN does to the rest of the world.

[sketchbonked]

what if we all just shut the fuck up about kataang and zutara and just posted pictures of appa and momo being best friends

[theweeklydiscourse]

It’s really funny how much people misremember certain aspects of ATLA and then proclaim to the internet stuff that either never happened or is extremely distorted with absolute certainty. For example, today I saw a person claiming that whole point of Katara’s character arc was unlearning the parentified behaviours she developed in wake of her mother’s death. That a huge part of Katara’s arc was a confrontation of how that trauma fundamentally shaped her maternal tendencies.

The thing is though…WE the audience, can recognize that the parentification Katara experienced was something that was really straining for her, but the TEXT doesn’t. The audience (or at least certain parts of the audience) can identify that her maternal tendencies were indicative of a responsibility that she took on far too young and subjected her to unnecessary pressure and stress. There are flashes of recognition maybe, but for the most part, the show doesn’t actually confront the negative impact that Katara’s maternal role had on her.

Katara never truly unlearns the maternal behaviours that put so much pressure on her because the text doesn’t see it as a bad thing. Arguably, the text doesn’t see much of a problem with the emotional labour Katara takes on and how that labour goes unreciprocated for the most part (particularly from her canon love interest). We see some reflections, but it’s not enough to support a reading of the text where that element is actually extremely obvious and a prominent point in her character arc.

We’re not the ones “watching the show with our eyes closed”, I think you’re just misremembering the canon progression of Katara’s arc to avoid confronting a real issue in the text.

[sokkastyles]

"By criticizing Aang/the Air Nomads, aren't you justifying the genocide?"

Only if you're the type of person who believes that anything can justify genocide, hope that helps!

[avatar-legends-confessionblog]

To all people who are writing "character/ship defense" posts - please do go on! Keep it up! Share your love! Protect your favorites! It works, I promise! You can make a difference!

I absolutely hated Mai and maiko - but after reading some great analyses I warmed up, now I see what interesting is in Mai's character and how her relationship with Zuko can actually work. Still not a shipper but believe me, that was a huuuuge change for me. All because of people who expressed their love and provided solid arguments. You are awesome!

I almost didn't care about Jet - now, thanks to his fans, I enjoy his story very much. There was such depth to him that I didn't see, but people who did opened my eyes. Thank you!

I loathed Azula, but now, even though I think her stans are often going too far praising her, they revealed to me the aspects of her arc that I even find appealing. I still wish her story was handled better, but again - a huge step from blind hatred.

The only exception is zutara, because the ways shippers mischaracterise and outright butcher my two favorite main cast members (Katara and Zuko) all the time make me sick and mad. They made me detest the ship I was originally indifferent to. But anyway, I believe they can do better and probably, one day, sometime in the future there will be posted at least one zutara meta that is at least half-decent.

X