#atla fandom discourse

[broadwaybalogna]

This is so interesting to me because it’s technically canon that Katara was reduced to being “the avatars wife”. Like, A@ng was always the breadwinner while Katara just watched from the sidelines.

Also, Zutarians will more commonly say that Katara being fire lady gives her the same kind of political power as Zuko, or he would give her such. So it would be a relationship where both are important figures and neither are living in the others shadow.

[star-pocalypse]

Breaking News: girl who spent years defending Katara sees the Seven Havens announcement and has a hysterical breakdown as she realizes she's going back in the arena

More at 6

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i don't often talk about atla by itself here unless i'm comparing it to spop, but there's something i've been meaning to talk about.

i hate how the fandom reduced Toph to “chaotic murder child” when she's clearly so much more than that.

the thing that especially pisses me off is when fans act like Toph is reckless and stupid, when her WHOLE DEAL is that she's extremely observant and patient when it comes to fighting.

this is what set her apart from other earthbenders, she doesn't just use brute strength to win fights. she concentrates on the sound and vibrations, and she waits for the perfect moment to strike. this was the main reason WHY Toph was one of the best earthbenders.

and the fandom acknowledges that she's the best, but somehow doesn't seem to realize WHY she's the best, when it was practically spelled out for us. Toph isn't the best because she's super strong or muscular, she's the best because she crafted her own form of earthbending that utilizes patience and attention to detail. how do people not understand this?

[kashishmusings]

Once I figure this app out more I will talk about how Mai choosing Zuko in the boiling rock was very much a political choice and an act of great defiance against the Fire Nation.

[theweeklydiscourse]

It’s really funny how much people misremember certain aspects of ATLA and then proclaim to the internet stuff that either never happened or is extremely distorted with absolute certainty. For example, today I saw a person claiming that whole point of Katara’s character arc was unlearning the parentified behaviours she developed in wake of her mother’s death. That a huge part of Katara’s arc was a confrontation of how that trauma fundamentally shaped her maternal tendencies.

The thing is though…WE the audience, can recognize that the parentification Katara experienced was something that was really straining for her, but the TEXT doesn’t. The audience (or at least certain parts of the audience) can identify that her maternal tendencies were indicative of a responsibility that she took on far too young and subjected her to unnecessary pressure and stress. There are flashes of recognition maybe, but for the most part, the show doesn’t actually confront the negative impact that Katara’s maternal role had on her.

Katara never truly unlearns the maternal behaviours that put so much pressure on her because the text doesn’t see it as a bad thing. Arguably, the text doesn’t see much of a problem with the emotional labour Katara takes on and how that labour goes unreciprocated for the most part (particularly from her canon love interest). We see some reflections, but it’s not enough to support a reading of the text where that element is actually extremely obvious and a prominent point in her character arc.

We’re not the ones “watching the show with our eyes closed”, I think you’re just misremembering the canon progression of Katara’s arc to avoid confronting a real issue in the text.

[blackbullet99]

Debunking The Stupidest Pro-Zutara Claims.

Howdy y’all.

If you follow me, you know I’m a Kataang truther and a Zutara hater. I always thought Kataang was cute as a kid, but I honestly didn’t appreciate how mutual and well developed their relationship more until I was older. By contrast, I didn’t think much of Zutara initially, I knew it had a huge following and I kinda got why, they have a very interesting dynamic that drastically changes and them becoming friends is heartwarming, but I never got the hype. Then I saw this…

And I was utterly baffled at the mischaracterization, media-illiteracy, Zuko dickriding and Aang demonization on this post. Let’s have a look…

See what I mean about the Zuko dickriding and Aang demonizing. You compare one scene of Zuko making tea for everyone in Book 3, to Aang showing off in Book 1. Need I mention that Aang later apologized for getting big-headed by the end, and later episodes show that Aang (and the rest of the group) all work together. Right off the bat and we get this dumb Katara/Cinderella narrative.

Not another Dadko. Momtara I kind of get, but Zuko is not a father figure. Zuko himself is still young, still growing, still capable of being immature. The first moment isn’t even a parental thing, it’s more Zuko stopping Katara from confronting Aang because he somewhat understands Aang’s frustration of being unsure and conflicting about a huge decision, because he’s been there not long ago.

Comforting someone when they’re worried or grieving isn’t parental responsibility, that’s being empathetic and good friend. Katara comforts Zuko when he’s worried about comforting Iroh and these people lap that scene up.

“Aang acts like Katara’s son” is such a baseless argument. Ignoring the fact that Aang canonically has romantic feelings for Katara and vise-verse, the first moment was a one-off joke about Katara being motherly, the second was also a joke where Katara PRETENDS to be Aang’s mom and her brother’s husband, the last moment is Katara telling Toph how she TRAINS Aang because she’s his Sifu and so it Toph, does that mean Toph is also Aang’s mom?

Let’s go over this for the umpteenth time: Aang kissing Katara was wrong, it was bad, we should’ve seen him apologize, but he immediately regretted what he did, he knew he messed up, he’s not a sexual-assaulter, blah, blah blah. The problem with this is that these are both completely different situations and also Zuko had to be told to get off Katara, so not only is this point meaningless, but it doesn’t even support Zutara.

This has gotta be one of the dumbest arguments here, Aang has always seen Katara as an ally and dear friend first and foremost since day one. Admittedly Aang was somewhat possessive here, but him nodding mean he literally though Katara was his possession, more so him thinking Katara returned his feelings (which she did). But throughout the entirety of the show Aang sees Katara as not only an ally, but a friend, a fellow waterbender, Zuko only saw her as a friend and ally near the very end of the show, before that he simply saw her as a peasant in the way of his goal.

Again, both of these are completely different contexts and both Aang and Zuko were pretty adamant about how Katara feels about them. Zuko frustratingly confronts Katara about why she’s mad it him, he wants to earn to trust and sleep deprives himself so he can resolve this as soon as she wakes up. Katara asks why Aang is so crestfallen, he explains part of the reason, Aang (while being somewhat pushy) wants to know how Katara feels before he confronts Ozai in life or death.

Both are different situations and really I wouldn’t say either is better than the other.

Okay, there’s a lot wrong with these points, lemme go over them as best as I can.

Aang has put his needs over Katara’s several times, just to name three: he gave himself so the Fire Nation would spare her home, was willing to forgo his own Waterbending because Pakku wouldn’t train her, willingly put aside mastering the Avatar State because SHE WAS IN DANGER!

Aang understands the importance of Katara’s family, he leaves so as to to come between Katara and her family when she threatens to leave, he brings back her necklace knowing how much it means to her.

In both of mentioned Aang instances, he realized he was wrong and he and Katara reconciled, the first instance was out of a misguided attempt to set things right after he was killed, and the former is something Aang would never do again, in a later episode he actively takes Sokka to his father and Aang is content for he and Katara to go their separate ways for a while. I find it utterly hypocritical to be a Zuko dickrider while bashing Aang for mistakes he regrets, apologizes for and learns from, you know who else does that?

Once again, THE CONTEXT! In the first scene Katara mentions her mother’s death in a more matter of fact way to explain to Aang that the Fire Nation have killed a lot of people including his own. Aang however in a state of denial dismissed the idea of his own people being killed. In the second scene Katara lashes out at Zuko for all the trouble he caused and Zuko after going through some development prior empathizes with her in a way to get Katara to understand he means no harm.

Aang also empathized with Katara’s loss. In this same episode, he himself says he knows what it’s like to feel the pain and rage Katara feels, specifically when he found out all his people were dead and encouraged Katara to confront the person who caused said pain.

I REALLY HATE making a Katara centric episode about shipping, I really do, many people say Zuko was right Aang was wrong, or Aang was right Zuko was wrong. Neither side was entirely right or entirely wrong.

Zuko was right to take Katara to confront Yon-Rha and this was when he truly began to understand what Katara had been through and see her as an individual, while Katara comes to see Zuko as a friend and forgive him, however he had no idea what Katara was going to do and didn’t think of toll this would take on Katara if she did end up choosing violence.

Meanwhile Aang not agreeing with Katara and confronting her isn’t a bad thing, he understands just what it’s like to lose someone close to you and to feel unbridled rage and hate, he’s been there, he also knows Katara isn’t cold-hearted and she could come to regret seeking violence. He actively encourages Katara to face Yon-Rha without killing him, which she does and as Zuko says he was right about what Katara needed. But as Katara points out she didn’t forgive Yon-Rha, forgiveness wasn’t the right choice, and you know what, this is something Aang accepts.

These points in particular really highlight the stupidity and hypocrisy of the OP. For one, as we can literally see Aang ignored his training specifically because Katara was in danger and he wanted to save her, this is no different from Zuko sacrificing himself to save Katara, in fact Aang has put his life on the line for Katara multiple times. Furthermore OP gets on Aang’s case for leaving Katara to fulfill his duties in the Book 3 premiere, but then praises Zuko for leaving Mai to fulfill his duties. They’re literally praising Zuko for doing the same stuff Aang’s doing and whining about Aang whether he chose to ignore his duties to be with Katara or if he leaves Katara to fulfill his duties, you can’t win!

Okay, screw this guy, this has nothing to do with the Zuko saving Katara, OP just wanted to bitch about Aang not wanting to kill Ozai as if this supposedly makes him selfish even though Aang is literally facing Ozai to save the world and is simply trying to find a peaceful solution, it’s like the theme of this show was lost on this dude.

This was the creep who made weird comments about Katara’s appearance wasn’t it.

I really don’t get what this final point is trying to prove. The first scene is Katara happy that Zuko is alive, the second is Katara happily gazing at Aang, who never at any point tried to change Katara, at all. Point me to one scene, one moment. If this is about how Katara looks, she doesn’t look that different, at the very least, her eyes are slightly bigger in the second pic because she close to someone she loves, but even then it’s a lot of whining from this guy about nothing.

Case in point, this is when I realized Anti-Kataang Zutara shippers have are media-illiterate morons with not a single good take, fake-fans who only care about mischaracterization for the sake of a mid middle-school ship.

Maybe I should make a counter post about what Katara gains from Kataang.

[starlight-bread-blog]

It saddens me to think about how toxic the A:TLA fandom is specifically. A:TLA is a show with a big heart and a lot of love in it. It pains me to see how we all gathered around this sunshine of a show... only to treat each other like this.

At the end of the day, Ka or zk or even both, unhappy with the finale or happy with it, anti azula or pro azula, and whatever opinion you have, WHO CARES? It shouldn't matter. We are all here to celebrate something about this show that's just full of love but we don't treat each other with half the love put into the show and I hate that.

[kideaternomnom]

I'm possibly about to start a catfight with this late ass reply but who cares lmao

first of all...That post was NEVER about Zutara. Where did anyone get the idea I was trying to defend Zutara? It was about how I find the defenders annoying and WHY I find it badly written. Never was it about Zutara- where did anyone get that idea??? 😭It was more specifically on why I find Maiko defenders to be annoying personally. Also, the post wasn’t necessarily talking about why I don’t think Zuko and Mai’s personalities don’t go together but why I find it BADLY WRITTEN. Don’t you dare try to twist my words- 💀

What I’m saying is that some Maiko shippers say it like Mai is the ONLY one to make Zuko happy. Keyword: ONLY. I do acknowledge the scenes of Zuko smiling at Mai while they’re cuddling, but I’m just saying, that doesn’t mean he is his HAPPIEST or that his ONLY happy moments are with Mai. Iroh, the Gaang, etc all exist. “The irony of Zutara shippers acting like Zuko not bringing up Mai for two episodes, while he’s on a mission to save the word, means he does not love her.”

Once again: not about Zutara but okay!! Second: I’m not saying he has to bring her up constantly or some shit like that. I’m just saying it’d be nice if the creators added some kind of scene of either Zuko freeing Mai, or him at least worrying about her while she’s in the Boiling Rock. Why? To sell it to me more that they really care for each other. I’m not saying they don’t care for each other but I’m just saying, they could’ve done WAYY better selling it with good writing and scenes. That’s what I mean about Maiko, it doesn’t have enough scenes to be good at least to me. Similar to how in the fountain flashback we only see Mai’s pov, which was why the kiss in S3 ep 1 was so sudden and fell flat/unexpected for many people. Again: not saying they don’t care for each other! I’m saying they could’ve done way better selling it. Such as, having a tiny scene of Zuko worrying for Mai after the BR.

Also, once again:

Where did I mention Zutara??? 😭

[mfelewzi]

Find It in a latino american facebook page (you can Say the name in the center of the image).

All my fantasies about a more complex lore for AtlA and a presence of other asian civilizations as persians, arabians, hindis, turkics and mongolians started with the Wan Shi Tong's library. Cause the architecture was totally different by the others, cause It's inspired by Taj Mahal. But the Tan Mahal has some elements that has roots in persian architecture, and this took inspirations by other architectures like arabian one, and greek too.

And the same greeks left some elements in asian history, especially in India, Persia and Turkic countries. And the same Sand Folks hadnsome inspirations by arabians, amazighs and from Star Wars too. And sadly, the first two were a bit stereotypicals.

I'm not angry about it, cause I don't think that writers did that with bad reasons. But It could be a moment to make more great and culturally rich that universe, with more asian elements over the stereotypical Buddhism (Who is generally confused with Jainism, especially about the "Discovery of their True Self", when Buddhism believed that the Self is an illusion, or more precisely is Void and without purpose, and this is One of Buddhist Dogmas, the Anatman).

Sadly, this didn't happen. And I think that It could be more interesting for that world, especially for a comic series about "Book 4" and for the sequel LoK, that I don't like (Well, It would Need other modifications, lime a more 1800's set in and technology, similar to First Years of Meiji Age in Japan, between the First Industrial Revolution and the Second One, the crossline among Coal Energy and Oil Energy).

But the fandom of this series could do the same thing done by italian first fandom of Pinocchio, that convinced the author, Carlo Collodi, to modify and continuing the novel (cause the real and first ending of Pinocchio's story was that Cat and Fox killed him); and we could have a more Cultural Activity, not with fanfictions only, but with new stories and influences.

Yes, with an author like Di Martino is clearly impossible, but Who knows?

[broadwaybalogna]

Some of the points anti-zutaras make are so crazy that it genuinely makes me feel queezy.

Like, I once saw someone say: “fic tropes where Katara is with a@ng/Jet and then Zuko, ruler of the nation that killed her people, and imperialist, saves her makes me feel weird because why are they saying that someone who represents all the trauma Katara went through as a child would save her?”

Because it’s a trope?

Like, it’s not that deep, it’s a fanfiction trope. Girl, through the help of a new love interest, learns what actual love and care feels like after being with an abuser for a long time.

I can assure you it has nothing to do with underlying colonizer apologist views, it’s just a trope that you see in a LOT of fanworks.

[jana2071]

This meme perfectly sums it up

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

the way the atla fandom treats azula reminds me so much of how the spop fandom treats catra. don’t get me wrong, i actually love azula, i think she was a very interesting and complex character. but that doesn’t take away from the fact that she was still dangerous and toxic, willing to manipulate and control and kill without remorse.

one huge example of azula being coddled by the fandom is when the comics came out, and she was restrained and put into a straitjacket. i saw many fans complaining about how this was ableist and demonizing trauma and mental illnesses.

which.. i mean i’m sure azula has her fair share of mental health issues after all that she went through. but she wasn’t restrained because she was mentally unstable, she was restrained because she was (at that point) the strongest firebender who could and would kill everyone in a heartbeat.

literally it feels like people sometimes forget that this was a fantasy world where people had magic powers. azula had to be restrained because she was a firebending prodigy who has killed once, and will kill again. yes, she was mentally unstable but she was also a threat to everyone.

and you can see, in this universe, how every criminal was restrained in some sort of way. in tlok, the red lotus were each contained in custom-made high security prisons because they were that big of a threat to everyone around them. ming-hua was disabled and she was not provided prosthetics in her prison, but this was because she used water as her prosthetics and was a waterbending prodigy with criminal intentions.

if azula was mentally unstable but not dangerous, the straitjacket would not be necessary. and i know that irl there’s a lot of history and ethical discourse surrounding the use of straitjackets but in azula’s case, i believe it was necessary. it wasn’t ableism or demonizing mental illnesses, it was simply a safety measure to assure that no one else got hurt by azula.

[avatar-legends-confessionblog]

It's really telling when zutara fans say that Mai brings out the worst in Zuko, (firstly because how much do you have to hate women to say their boyfriends being violent and out of line is their fault, but also) because Zuko has done way, way worse things in the series than be a bad boyfriend to Mai. The worst things Zuko has done, he did them solo of his own accord, often with a good influence actively trying to talk him down from it that Zuko actively chooses to ignore. But they either don't actually see any of those things as bad or they say that Zuko cannot be held accountable for his own behavior at those times either. Nothing Zuko does is ever Zuko's own responsibility.

X

[theweeklydiscourse]

There's just something about enemies to lovers antis that is just so funny. Because they go on, shaming womans/girls over silly fantasies saying that they are doomed to be in toxic relationships while being like "this piece of boring white bread and (most of times) toxic masculinity and immaturity hero is actually an much better lover interest for the FMC because *check notes* he's... her friend and does nice-ish things to her sometimes ig" like gurl how arent you catching the irony? Especifically if it's an woman saying crap like that.

Yep this is about kataang and Malina (thought Malina stans cant even say he was nice-ish to her)

They’re blind to how simplistic their line of reasoning is. However, that simplistic worldview brings them a weird kind of satisfaction. Not only does it validate their feelings of moral and intellectual superiority, it also allows them to indulge in salacious and sensational claims and gain internet points as a result. This blindness and simplistic thinking creates a funny scenario where, in fiction, they rail against grandiose villainy, but ignore the more realistic and mundane toxicity of their fave wholesome love interest™.

In ATLA’s case, I think this is partially due to most people’s foggy memory of the show. It’s become apparent to me that many people don’t actually remember certain details and are willing to smooth over the gaps in their memory with personal headcanons. This is how we got to this bizarre reality where people have reframed Kataang as some kind of uniquely progressive and ahead-of-its-time relationship, when in the actual show, it checks nearly every box for your garden variety 2000s heterosexual relationship. Nostalgia compels people to make excuses for the fact that the Kataang relationship centres Aang at every turn and neglects Katara’s end of their romantic arc.

In Malina’s case, it’s even more ridiculous because Mal is overtly worse as a love interest and was largely disliked by the Shadow and Bone fandom for a long time. It’s only in recent years that his reputation has been rehabilitated (and even then…) Then you have the odd contrarian with a vague recollection of the series who tries to gaslight people into thinking that Mal was good actually and that we were just being dramatic. Sure, Mal doesn’t have a particularly sizeable body count, but he commits the arguably greater crime of being an emotionally abusive boyfriend to Alina. He’s not even toxic in an interesting way like the Darkling, he’s just toxic in a way that will remind the teenage readership of their real-life terrible boyfriends. It’s downright comical that Bardugo ever thought Mal could ever be likeable.

The irony is palpable. The toxic masculinity and mundane emotional abuse is something they sweep under the rug because they are so persuaded by the image of a wholesome love interest. They can’t understand why more realistic depictions of relationships in fiction would be more impactful and evocative than that which is fantastical.

[kacievvbbbb]

You know I talk a lot of shit about the concept of not watching a show or abandoning a show because of the fandom.

But like I went to see Avatar the Last Airbender live at concert and god I had forgotten just how much I love that show.

I’d let my irritation with the fandom’s discourse allow me forget how much I love this show.

But my eyes are open now and by god I’ll never let them close again. Cause I love that show.

[balanceoflightanddark]

Well, I guess Zuko is a nonbender since he uses dual swords if the "Azula is an archer=non bender" discourse is any indication.