#because it seems so...ridiculous that people will literally viciously abuse you over fiction

[not-poignant]

Hi Pia

I've seen your posts (and other bloggers posts) about antis, and although i don't agree that anyone has the right to dictate what media people are allowed to enjoy i never actually believed that they could be that bad (since I'd never had any interactions with them) and thought their unhinged behaviour was exaggerated. Until I posted a fic with a controversial pairing and OH. MY. GOD.

I have never received this much abuse (and of such a vicious sort) in my entire life. I guess this serves me right for doubting other creators' claims of how awful antis can be. I could just never believe anyone could be this... this... diabolical. But now I'm experiencing it first and it is wild.

Like I'm receiving actual death threats? Because of a 2,000 oneshot? I'm being told that me and my whole family deserve to die slow and painful deaths because of the characters I shipped?? They're calling me a pedophile and an animal abuser because one of the characters I wrote about is a teenager and the other is a human-animal hybrid??? What?

Like, are these people ok? Are they mentally unwell? This is just... I'm in shock honestly that people actually think and behave like this. Holy hell. It's been a hug eye opener and not a necessarily nice one.

Sorry if this message was unwelcome, I just couldn't think of anyone else to share this with. I hope you're having a nice day/evening ❤

Hi hi anon,

Yeah, this is what it's sadly like, and in the most extreme pockets of anti-communities are people who have literally tried to murder other people over fictional characters.

It's truly unhinged.

You have people who just don't like what other people are shipping, which is fine and normal, we all have notps and things we don't like, and then you have the people who genuinely think it's okay to torment, harass, abuse, and bully another person based over something fictional, and those people need to be blocked.

These people coming after you anon, if they're on AO3, report every single one because it might take a while, but those people get banned from AO3. If they're on Tumblr, block but also consider reporting, because death threats get people banned and all anonymous IP addresses are logged on Tumblr's side. If it's on Twitter, block on sight. Don't tolerate them, don't give them the air to breathe, and make sure you get offline sometimes or go to online safe spaces and spend time with the people who love you for who you are, it's the best weapon against antis who have no idea who you are and feel like you're a great figure to bully and abuse.

Ultimately, at the very base of what an anti is, is someone who believes their emotion of 'don't like that' justifies them bullying and torturing other people over fictional characters. It is at its foundation completely delusional, and even people who get 'logical' about it are still going 'my emotions are real enough to justify hurting you over something that is a figment of our collective imaginations.'

Some of those folks are very young, and will grow out of it, and have just drunk the collective Koolaid, some of them are older and always wanted an excuse to bully others but feel 'righteous' and 'pure' for doing it. Some really believe they're doing the right thing, others know they're hypocrities but can be all the more vicious for it. There are many recovering antis, but they're often silent about the things they've done, or the ways they've tried to hurt people.

I'm glad you posted that story anon, but not glad about the response you're getting. Consider moderating comments if it's on AO3, just to choke out the antis for a while. And yeah, practice self-care, because abusers want to hurt and harm others, and if you feel hurt and harmed, the more you can act to look after yourself, the more you thwart their goal/s and give them the big proverbial 'fuck you' that they so desperately deserve.

They do, usually, die down after a while, especially the more they get starved out. They'll often hunt for more vulnerable people. But in the meantime you also might want to inform folks you trust irl that you're dealing with this right now, because antis are unhinged, and online abuse is serious. Take care of you!! <33333 I'm sorry you had to learn about this pocket of 'society' in such a horrific way.

Antis are the worst.

[mechecolomar-archive]

genuinely curious: do you think that the depictions of homophobic abuse and violence towards lgbt characters in tlou2 outweighs the portrayal of their other experiences and happy moments of love/self expression? is it bad representation if the lgbt characters go through strife and pain as well as being happy and allowed to express themselves? i feel like there are valid criticisms to be made, but views on lgbt rep tend to be pretty polarized, either "it's great" or "it's bad" with no nuance

I think a big issue I have with the characters and representation specifically in The Last of Us 2 is that in the game the characters feel like they were created solely to serve a point in the plot, the game’s tone is progressively bleak (and the violence is gratuitous), and the inclusion of bigotry also felt unnecessary.

As a disclaimer, I’m not saying tlou2, Naughtydog, or even Neil Druckmann is simply homophobic because the gay character gets in fights and all that, but for me personally I felt that the treatment of lgbt characters in the game made me uncomfortable and wasn't satisfying. I’m glad they weren't outright stereotypes, but I’d like it if there was a bit kinder treatment of these characters. It just really feels like nd heard they didn’t do diversity well in the first game and just threw in a bunch of poc and lgbt characters without really thinking... I don’t think what happens is homophobic, but it feels very thoughtless.

The characters in tlou2 are not well done, I’m not sure what happened between The Last of Us and tlou2, but they do not feel the same at all. Every character in the game feels very weak and the player themselves cant name 10 facts about each one, even characters like Abby or Dina (I’m excluding Ellie and Joel because they already existed). This applies the most to Jessie imo, but I’ll only discuss Ellie, Dina, and Lev since they are the lgbt characters in the game. in tlou2 Ellie is just the vengeful character and as Neil put it, “the villain.” tlou2 could have been a wonderful opportunity to add more to her story, but here she’s basically just the traumatized girl who likes girls and is playing the guitar to remember Joel. Dina is basically the player’s partner who is randomly benched halfway through and from a narrative point she is something that Ellie can lose, you learn she has some ability with tinkering, she is Jewish, bi, has a sister... and not much else. Finally Lev feels like the main justification to sympathize with Abby, without Abby he is introduced literally being hunted because he is trans. Every character in the game is like this, but with these three very prominent characters, it’s disappointing.

Next, for tlou2 the violence seems to be double what happened in tlou, being much more detailed and forcing you to look at what is happening (Ellie getting her face smashed in and Abby threatening to kill Dina and its good because she is pregnant). Tlou was able to thread the needle concerning this successfully; having Ellie being kidnapped, hunted, and almost being sexually assaulted to immediately having the famous scene where Joel and Ellie pet giraffes. Tlou also (to my knowledge) did not have those shock value moments 2 constantly has, and when there is violence its rarely explicitly shown. Now in tlou2 this is almost the opposite, instead of going back and forth between intense and calm scenes, the sequel seems to steadily go downhill in tone. I know that these specific characters arent being hurt BECAUSE they’re lgbt, but its still not good to see.

The happiest moments are the beginning with Dina and Ellie, but while they're having fun and making out together what’s happening? Joel is currently getting his face caved in by Abby. Halfway through the game after Ellie and Dina are beaten, it seems to go back up in tone, but ooc tommy forces Ellie to turn back to revenge and the whole thing comes crashing back down. “I’m afraid of ending up alone” Ellie chooses to leave Dina and Ellie’s life is now hell going all the way back to Abby. After all this Ellie comes back to their house but her family is no longer there. Ellie is alone. I have a huge issue with the ending and it’s that you are explicitly shown that everything there is sad. Nd doesn't make “letting go” of Joel a relief, and they don’t show any implication of Ellie reuniting with Dina. Our lesbian protagonist is now living her worst fear, even though she did the “right” thing and spared Abby. Lev’s ending is clearly better because he’s affiliated with Abby, but it doesn’t change that throughout the story he’s repeatedly hurt and has a similar fall to Ellie after Abby thinks she finds the fireflies, he is never explicitly shown recovering from being made a literal slave and almost crucified.

My last issue is that the bigotry is entirely uncalled for, especially in a world that is as already violent as they’ve made tlou2. One of the most striking moments to me in tlou2 is Dina saying, “What’s this” referring to lgbt flags, indicating she has no concept of pride for being bisexual. Ellie also has no clue and they joke about the erotica and thats the end of that. Later Ellie is called a slur. The man who does it isnt exactly punished and Ellie is forced to make up with him later. That scene and the scene at the end somehow included Ellie, but clearly were about Joel. The last flashback is used as a tragic “Ellie could have forgiven Joel but he was killed :(” scene, there’s very little focus about her sexuality positively. Ellie and Dina are also never openly gay, the one time they are (in a room full of maybe 50 people) Ellie is called a d*ke. Ellie’s previous gf is scrapped except for subtle concept art and notes and she only has one conversation in the beginning mentioning a her.

Then on the opposite side of characters, Lev’s entire story outside of and before Abby is being hunted simply because he is trans. He’s deadnamed multiple times and even Abby cluelessly says it (??). There’s endless reasons why he could have been hunted (hell, just simply wanting to leave the cult because theyre so violent), but nd went with this... for some reason. Him being trans is also never discussed in a positive way other than Abby’s weird attempt to make him feel better by giving him a toy (”Hey, I know your group you grew up with and family literally wants you dead, but uh, would a toy help?”). Lev THEN goes BACK to the people who wants him dead, and we’re shown that his mother has viciously attacked him and he accidentally kills her due to this. Him being trans is never mentioned again... I don’t think we have to exactly hide homophobia in fiction, but I personally do not play a game to get called a slur, I can find that irl. Also if these things were to be included, they could have at least shown comfort after, but they don’t. The scenes are simply more shocking violence and are never mentioned again, simply skipped over. Nd used these characters being lgbt as an excuse for them to be discriminated against for it instead of anything positive.

Their advertising of Ellie kissing a girl in 2018 and in 2020 having her be called a slur instantly after what was shown to us is just SO jarring... Nd and their stans like to say, “Well if you don’t like The Last of Us 2, you’re just homophobic.” but that’s honestly so ridiculous. There simply can’t be more instances of oppression than acceptance and think you're doing something good?? Revealing Lev’s deadname gives people an opportunity to be transphobic, having Ellie be called a slur and lash out at Joel after gives people a reason to be angry at her there. You simply can’t include these things if it can do the opposite thing that you want. The point of including minorities in fiction should be so people can related and identify with these characters, not as some virtual reminder that people will hate you specifically for these reasons. It should not be too much to ask for a character you are like to be treated well and nd not listening to fans critique the game is sad,

I suppose I appreciate the attempt at inclusion, but it feels like a failed one that I preferred would not have happened, or at least had been strongly corrected. It would have been different if maybe Ellie had reunited with Dina apologizing, Abby telling Lev she supports him, Joel saying he loves Ellie, or even Dina and Ellie talking about being gay in some way thats anything other than making out and calling each other “babe”, but idk... that didn’t happen. Dina and Ellie are clearly supposed to be the main rep, but I feel like they really missed things they could have mentioned. This rep really reminds me of Life is Strange, but I can’t decide if dying or ending up alone and depressed at the end is worse. I’m probably missing more things but yeah... It would be cool if my lesbian protagonist did not have to be traumatized for an overdone, useless story.