#bellum catilinae

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

A lot of my favorite books are those that make me think, not necessarily those I agree with.

I disagree with Sallust's reactionary, sometimes sexist views on society, but I found some brilliant subtext and double meanings (intentional or not) in his Bellum Catilinae. I'm no Stoic, but it was fascinating to read Epictetus and consider what I agreed with (the anti-anxiety suggestions) and what I didn't (I think he's too dismissive of the possibility of social reform). The writers forced me to weigh what I was reading carefully, and make up my own mind.

I like to think that everyone has something to teach me, if I can keep an open mind. It might not be what the person would intend me to learn: Catholic school made me very not-Catholic. But it also forced me to think carefully about why I disagreed, and to see the difference between the religion's official doctrine, and its individuals, who can be as good or bad as any other group of people. You can't know someone's character based off just a label. The world is big and complicated, and each of us is only seeing a small part of it.

I like books that help me see into another person's part.

[fluentisonus]

rip the romans you would have loved shakespeare's "where civil blood makes civil hands unclean" line

[statius]

why is it that all accounts of the Catilinarian conspiracy trying to break down his character only make him sexyer to me

[catilinas]

i loooooooooooove conspiracy narratives <3

[carmeloffie]

the parallels. i’m drawing them.

[anglerflsh]

oh hey we were covering that in Latin class the other day! (tangentially, we're focusing on Sallust's Bellum Jugurthinum but Bellum Catilinae was mentioned also 🎉🎉🎉)

Godspeed to you anon since my class was obliterated I will live vicariously through you

[nesquikflavoredchapstick]

imagine a tiktok to pompeii by bastille with a thirteen year old dramatically like looking at the news and then mouthing the words at a copy of sallust’s bellum catilinae

[drglatin]

LQOW for 5/6/2024

in magna copia rerum aliud alii natura iter ostendit

(Sallust, Bellum Catilinae 2.9)

[whencyclopedfr]

Salluste

Caius Sallustius Crispus (86-35 av. J.-C.), plus connu sous le nom de Salluste, était un homme d'État et un historien romain. Il se détourna d'une carrière infructueuse dans la politique et l'armée romaine, préférant se consacrer à l'écriture et produisit trois ouvrages majeurs: Bellum Catilinae (Conjuration de Catilina), Bellum Jugurthinum (Guerre de Jugurtha) et Histoires. Malheureusement, ses œuvres seraient pratiquement oubliées des décennies plus tard. Son style d'écriture et son point de vue influenceraient les hommes politiques américains et anglais du XVIIe siècle.

Lire la suite...

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

Love that segment in Bellum Catilinae where Sallust starts telling us about how the conspirator Sempronia is evil, and rich, and witty, and sexy, and a great dancer, and super smart and charming, and slowly you realize he has a huge crush on her and she probably turned him down.

[thetldrplace]

SPQR- Mary Beard; Ch 1

These next posts constitute my note taking on SPQR- A History of Ancient Rome, by Mary Beard. 

1 Cicero's Finest Hour

Cicero vs Catiline 63 BC Lucius Sergius Catilina Catiline's family was from the time of Rome's founding centuries earlier. His grandfather fought against Hannibal. Catiline himself was near bankruptcy in 63BC, from trying to get elected as one of the two consuls, the highest positions in the political system. Facing bankruptcy, he plotted, with others that had failed to win elections and who were deeply in debt, to overthrow the system with a series of assassinations.  

Marcus Tullius Cicero Cicero's family was wealthy, but from 70 miles outside Rome. Yet he assiduously curried favor and used his talents as an orator to gain influence. His fame as a celebrity orator had won him the consulship in 64BC, defeating Catiline.  

Cicero got wind of Catiline's plots through a tip-off by a friend of Catiline's. Cicero obtained a set of letters directly implicating Catiline and he convened the Senate to expose Catiline. Catiline was actually outside the city trying to muster his forces, when the plot was exposed. Arrests of conspirators followed and without even as much as a show trial, they were executed. Catiline was killed fighting to the last with his army a few weeks later.

Cicero's victory saw him named pater patriae, or father of the fatherland. But his success didn't last long. On his last day of consulship, he was denied the opportunity to speak because "Those who have punished others without a hearing ought not to have the right to be heard themselves". In 58BC, a Roman law was passed expelling anyone who put to death a Roman citizen without trial, and Cicero was singled out for exile.

The Roman people of the time numbered probably a million. Just how much power they had is under dispute, since it hinged on how many turned up for elections. But officials were elected in Rome and they didn't get to be officials otherwise. The Roman people made the laws and Cicero could not just ignore them at his will. He spent a year in exile in Greece until he was voted back. But by then his house had been destroyed and a statue to liberty erected in its place. 

Some of what we know about Cicero and Catiline comes from Gaius Sallustius Crispus, or Sallust, in his narrative Bellum Catilinae (The War Against Catiline). In Sallust's view, "the moral fiber of Rome had been destroyed by its success, and the wealth, greed, and lust for power that had followed its conquest of the Mediterranean and the crushing of all its serious rivals".  

Trying to see things from Catiline's view, what reasons might he have had for rebellion? There was clearly some sort of credit crunch at the time. While Catiline was certainly close to bankruptcy, the fact that the shortage was affecting lots of people, might have given his rebellion traction among many.  

There have been lots of attempts to understand Catiline, but we have to acknowledge there is too much we don't know. What the author seeks here is to understand how Cicero saw "Rome". Why were their origins important to them?  

[caddyjust]

Esse translate

Highsted Grammar School, Sittingbourne, Kent, England.The Hermitage School (1906), Geelong, Australia which has subsequently become that of The Hermitage House, Geelong Grammar School.The Hemel Hempstead School (1931), Hemel Hempstead, England.Hartford Public High School, Hartford, Connecticut, USA.The motto changed to Cui Servire est Regnare ("To whom to serve is to reign") shortly after the school's founding. Groton School (1884), Groton, Massachusetts, USA.Garrison Forest School, Owings Mills, Maryland, USA.The Forest School, Winnersh, Wokingham, Berkshire, England.Esquimalt High School, Esquimalt, British Columbia.The Episcopal Academy, Newtown Square, Pennsylvania, USA.The Ellis School, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA.Ellis Robins High School, Harare, Zimbabwe.Dubbo High School (now Dubbo College).Desert Heights Preparatory Academy, Glendale, Arizona.Darwin High School, Darwin, Australia.Cranbrook School, Sydney (1918), Sydney, Australia.Connells Point Public School, Sydney, Australia.Columbia College Chicago (1890), Chicago, Illinois, USA.Colyton Grammar School (1546), Colyford, England.Clifton House Preparatory School, Harrogate, England.Brigham Young University Men's Chorus, Provo, Utah, USA.Boys' Latin School of Maryland (1844), Baltimore, Maryland, USA.Bordentown Military Institute, (1881-1973), Bordentown, NJ, USA.Berklee College of Music, Boston, Massachusetts, USA and Valencia, Spain.Bedford College, University of London until c.1990, when Bedford and Royal Holloway Colleges merged and it became the motto of the joint college.Augusta Preparatory Day School (1972), Augusta, Georgia, USA.Ashville College (1877), Harrogate, England.Ashford School (1899), Ashford, Kent, England.Appalachian State University (1899), Boone, North Carolina.St Audries School, East Quantoxhead, Somerset, England.Academy at the Lakes, Land O Lakes, Florida.Academy of the Holy Names, Albany, New York.Academy of the Holy Names, Tampa, Florida.Academia de Guerra del Ejército de Chile, Santiago, Chile.Schools and colleges Įsse quam videri is (or was) the motto of a number of schools and colleges around the world, including: Great Seal of North Carolina with the state motto esse quam videri.Įsse quam videri is the state motto of North Carolina, adopted in 1893. Plato quoted this line in Republic (361b). Previous to both Romans, Aeschylus used a similar phrase in Seven Against Thebes at line 592, at which the scout ( angelos) says of the seer/priest Amphiaraus: οὐ γὰρ δοκεῖν ἄριστος, ἀλλ᾽ εἶναι θέλει ( ou gàr dokeîn áristos, all' eînai thélei: "he doesn't want to seem, but to be the bravest"). Just a few years after Cicero, Sallust used the phrase in his Bellum Catilinae (54.6), writing that Cato the Younger esse quam videri bonus malebat ("He preferred to be good rather than to seem so"). Virtute enim ipsa non tam multi praediti esse quam videri volunt ("Few are those who wish to be endowed with virtue rather than to seem so"). Esse quam videri is found in Cicero's essay On Friendship ( Laelius de Amicitia, chapter 98).

[catilinas]

i'm reading the cicero trilogy on your recommendation (thanks!) and i reached the last bit of imperium, got introduced to catilina....and im like. scared. so this is the guy of your url fame....certainly....an interesting fella.....help....!!!! but the book is so fun thank you for recommending!!

im glad you're enjoying it!! i must warn you the danger of the cicero trilogy is that robert harris often Does take the ciceronian line on things (ESPECIALLY the motivation/character of cicero's political enemies) and this is Very evident w catilina AND it means lots of those characters get kind of. flattened ig? and robert harris definitely simplifies the political situation a Lot, often in ways which make cicero's actions seem more sympathetic. not always! but with catilina and clodius like. a lot. i won't go into examples because it will spoil plot points for you but like. there's an event in the books that robert harris just goes along with when even other ancient sources say that cicero/his supporters made that up about catilina. robert harris' catilina is not my best friend catilina from sallust's bellum catilinae

[thoodleoo]

i only care about three things in life

1. being sexy

2. class warfare

3. being absolutely, unequivocally effrenata

[bravemercutio]

We’re reading Sallust’s Bellum Catilinae in my Latin seminar and I hope my cohort is ready for the perpetual anti-Caesarian Hot Take Machine that is me, once we get to Caesar

[sesquiplebe]

Monstrum. Parola latina dal significato di “straordinario” ma anche nel senso stretto di “mostro” come lo intendiamo noi. Il primo autore a fare uso di Monstrum nel senso si “mostro” è proprio Sallustio nel Bellum Catilinae, dove lo attribuisce quasi come un epiteto a Catilina, uno dei tanti figli di una Roma ormai logorata dalle guerre civili e dai vizi nati dopo la caduta del metus hostilis. L’opera sallustiana, oltre ad essere una denuncia alla nobiltà del suo tempo, era una specie di monografia “difensiva” per distogliere le accuse di favoreggiamento lanciate al suo più grande amico Cesare. Io mi chiedo se davvero quel monstrum significasse “essere malvagio”. Infondo, Catilina non aveva soltanto qualità negative e ha dimostrato di avere un grandissimo valore in battaglia che Sallustio stesso ha riconosciuto nella descrizione della sua morte. Io mi chiedo se lui con quel monstrum non volesse solo indicare il suo essere malvagio e meschino, ma anche sottolineare la sua straordinarietà nell’aver combattuto fino all’ultimo respiro senza mai voltare le spalle al nemico, senza mai fuggire e lasciare i suoi uomini lottare per lui. Ricordatevi che, mentre moriva, il suo sguardo ancora bruciava di una tale fierezza da far inchinare lo stesso Sallustio.