#but I don’t post about I/p I post fandom shit and antisemitism

[whitesunlars]

truly believe the greatest strengths of the Jewish people are our ability to question everything and our ability to laugh at everything

[afrenomes]

Major trigger warning for rape denial:

I don’t follow the op, but up until just now I was following someone who decided to reblog this post without comment. I’ve been desperately trying to keep on following people who hold differences of opinion and perspectives than me on I/P, to keep on following them for what I originally followed them for (like art, fandom, miscellaneous stuff) and hear what they have to say so that I don’t go down the rabbit hole I feel myself getting pulled towards, but then people go on to uncritically reblog shit like this and I just can’t. I’m beyond my limit here. I don’t know what to do anymore. There are so many things that are horrible and wrong about this post that I don’t even know where to start.

Additionally, this is one of the more heinous tags I saw in the notes of this post:

Not only is that incorrect, but also the reason why more women haven’t come out to say this is a) it’s incredibly traumatic and may take a long time for victims to process what they went through enough to actually speak out if they ever even get to that point, and b) MOST OF THE VICTIMS ARE FUCKING DEAD!!!

I don’t know what else to do or say here. In the past, I’ve called people out directly on their antisemitism, but I got so burned by it - I got called names and slurs and accused of things that I never said or did, and that’s impacted how I’ve interacted with this website as a whole for YEARS. Plus I’m just a stranger on the internet - sending a message out of the blue to someone describing why what they posted is awful will more likely than not have them get defensive and start attacking me in response. That’s not productive at all. I don’t know what else to do though other than block, unfollow, disengage, and if I really need to vent, then post it on my own blog away from the original post, like I’m doing right now. Obviously doing things in person, like talking to others face-to-face, going to irl rallies, talks, and events, and donating to causes are probably the most impactful, but online rhetoric can and does bleed into real life, and so I don’t think I can just ignore this either.

Anyways, Hanukkah is starting soon, so maybe the best thing to do for now is to log off.

[evas-apartment]

would love your thoughts on death of the author, separating art from its creater, etc.!

as someone who enjoys critically thinking about what i read & watch, i love the idea that i control the lens thru which i view plots & characters. maybe the author didn't mean to write these two women as potential love interests or create an allegory for transitioning, but i can, thru my own lens, see it in the story. however, i can also understand that when another author creates a "dark skinned evil race" for their story (very common example in fantasy) it is reflecting real world prejudices that harm real people & that needs to become a discussion imo of the author, their purpose in writing, & its broader effect on other media

This might be a long answer, but I got a lot to say here.

Long story short: Depending on the severity of the of offense, it can become impossible to "separate the art from the artist". But frankly, I've never attached such a large part of myself or my personality to a piece of media, or a celebrity such that I find it impossible to detach myself from something that can hurt people.

Thankfully, I was never that into Harry Potter, but the fact that it's author is a TERF amongst a bunch of other bigoted things like being blatantly racist and blatantly antisemitic should be enough for people. It's basically the "I don't know how to tell you you should care about other people". It's largely about having empathy for groups that you aren't a part of. It's about listening to the people who have been affected by a shitty person's shitty behavior/views/attitudes. Being really into something is special, but being so into something that you blindly defend a bad person in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary leads people to believe that you're bad too. And Harry Potter isn't worth that.

I was VERY into Five Nights at Freddy's, but then Scott Cawthon was revealed to donate money to demonstrably bad people, and I felt my love for something just ebb away into indifference, but that's just me. I LOVED Alton Brown until I saw reports that he made a bunch of shitty jokes (which I haven't been able to substantiate beyond two blog posts, but still) and I was able to just....stop interacting with it. I don't really listen to Michael Jackson's music anymore, but I can admit that it's objectively good music. But the love isn't there anymore. And I'm not going to praise a person that AT THE VERY LEAST shared a bed with and gave alcohol to minors. To relate it to my current hyper-fixation, wrestling, I can watch the matches of Chris Benoit, and admit that he is a phenomenal wrestler, and seller, but outside of that, I wouldn't go out of my way to praise the guy, to buy merch of him, which I've seen someone in real life do, or to say something so stupid as to say he should be in the Hall of Fame, like he killed people. That should be enough.

I feel like there is a greater conversation to be had about fandom culture, about how fans consume media, and attach themselves to whatever golden calf they're into that week. But TONS of people have said that, and this response is long enough, so I guess that's a conversation for another day. (Or another ask if you wanna keep hearing me ramble :P)

So, to answer the original ask, Yes. Viewing a piece of media through your own lens can be great. As a trans woman, it materialistically hurts nobody to headcannon someone as trans, and it makes me feel good. Being aware of stereotypes in otherwise beloved media franchises (the Gerudo in tLoZ, Jinx in Pokemon) is something everyone should be aware of, but go beyond that and actually listen as to why these depictions are offensive. Wonder why the original Fire Temple Chanting was offensive in Ocarina of Time and just have the empathy to hear different people out. As for "death of the author", everything is written with intent, whether intentional or not, and people's worldviews, ingrained biases, and privileges will shine make it through a person's work regardless of genre or medium. People's writing has intent, regardless of what people's interpretations of it is. Basically I don't agree with the idea of "death of the author" cause things made by bad people are usually ingrained with their shit views. Separating the art from the artist is a privilege afforded to those willing to listen to us. But when people like JKR not only include horrifically offensive depictions of people like me, get called out for it, then DOUBLE DOWN ON IT, you lose that right. And that's when we call it. And that's when we call it for people that continue to contribute to that.

And just as a little addendum for the end, saying Miku made something popular instead of the actual creator is worthless, and pirating Harry Potter media helps nobody but yourself.

All that being said, I do enjoy asks, and like receiving and answering them. Thanks for this!

[alatismeni-theitsa]

anti - LO anon asks/answers:

(1) Weird, I thought it sent my message, but here's the how the fandom hypersexualizes everything. 1) They thirst after any of the LO gods, in particular to them being shirtless, wear certain clothing (i.e Ares in a white tank top) or them being in a compromised state of pose (like Hades manspreading while being asleep at Demeter's place). 2) This thirst leads them to say things like "I want to bang [LO god]" or "I need to find a man like [LO god] (usually Hades)."  Even worse is if the person saying those things has a boyfriend or is already married. They will either call or even wish their man could be "Hades." IT IS LITERALLY SO DISGUSTING. Every time I see anybody make a comment about how badly they want to be with a fictional character, I always feel sorry for their significant other.

(2) I guess this is gonna be an unpopular opinion but—I don’t see why fans sexualizing LO is bad?...what did that anon mean by that exactly? As in like nsfw art and headcannons? Why is that bad? Rachel herself draws porn of her own characters. EVERY fandom hypersexualizes their fave characters, that’s why we have rule 34. If ppl are sexualizing LO Hebe or Aphrodite’s other children, then yes, that’s creepy and sick, but everyone else in LO is an adult so I guess I say...let ppl be horny XD

(3) Adding on to the previous anons, just go to the author’s twitter. It’s a mess I tell ya. Through my experience. I feel like they’re sexualizing Persephone and Hades(Mostly Hades because he is “Perfect Husbando Daddy” to them 💀. (And yes I do understand that Hades in the media has been romanticize a lot throughout the years)Anyways, they keeping talking his “body parts”, what Persephone is gonna do to him,vice versa.If you want me to send some screenshots I can(Patreon too). I haven’t seen it happen to any other character as much as H+P. (Ares,just a little) That’s from Twitter alone,I just wanna enjoy the characters without someone telling me how hot they are every second.😒 It’s almost as if the Author want these types of people. Then again.....

(4) I don't care if these are spoilers, the early LO release (April 19th) has Hades yelling at Persephone like a child after he saved her from a riot (because she was paying the ferry) then they make out after he yells that he "WANTS HER" and she proceeds to run away from him afterwards. It's unearned and creepy bc he yelled such a possessive line (not that he LOVES her or anything, only that he WANTS her). That's supposed to be a big moment but it comes off as rushed and even more imbalanced.

(5) I have to vent a bit; I really love L*re Olympus bc it's just cheesy and I love cheesy dramas and those cutesy neon colours, but what angers me most about is (after how it has nothing with Greek culture), how characters are so... inconsistent. Minthe, a character that was abusive /vocally/, not physically. Making her hit Hades was so ooc- and my GOD, how could a nymph hit a god and get away with it?

(6) Time for your daily dose of LO complaining, LO spoilers so read/publish at own risk - Today's top story: the latest fastpass episode brings us a very special first kiss between two main characters that will remain nameless. Needless to say (imo) it was executed poorly due to poor pacing and lack of build up in the chapter! People rightfully critiqued and diehard fans attacked, claws out. The shocking updates will continue as ~6 episodes separate us between now and the finale. Stay tuned.

(7) Holy shit so this isn't technically related to the anti-Greek prejudice in Lore Olympus, but in the latest update it's revealed that Hades runs all of the banks -- you know, Hades, the big-nosed leader, and he shames tiny innocent Persephone for 1 Not having a bank account 2 For the fact that the her mother thinks all bankers are greedy. So not only does Rachel Smythe hold ignorance towards Greek people,but also she enjoys Antisemitic tropes.

______________________________________________________________

(1+2) I can understand the thirst for fictional characters... but not when they are the Greek gods, ya know? As anon (2) said, it’s not bad when people are horny. However... it’s at least a little weird when your fetish is old gods from another culture but dressed in a tank top or who knows what else :P And the fact that they reduce the almighty Hades to “UWU hot daddy” makes it even cringier. I am sure that, if the author posts such content, she wants her characters to be sexualized. 

I mean, they are free to do it and we are free to comment on it - without limiting their ability to create and enjoy the hypersexualized content. Because, as much as we don’t like it, fans should be free to do whatever they like.

To add something for anon (2): if hypersexualizaion would be more natural if the comic had sex in it or dealt with sexual themes more frequently. I think the only sexual encounter we had so far was r*pe and nothing else. The storyline of the comic is almost irrelevant to the huge thirst fans have for the characters. If the focus is only on their sexuality and not on the plot or characters then it’s cringey. And I think it’s annoying when they sexualize the characters to such a degree. For example, anon (3) wrote “I just wanna enjoy the characters without someone telling me how hot they are every second”.

(3) “Perfect Husbando Daddy” UUUUGHHH.. It’s so funny the HxP in the comic are so boring and vanilla but the fans desperatelly want to turn them into a super sexualized couple? ALSO, SEND SCREENSHOTS! Patreon, comments you think are cringey, everything xD 

(4) I am happy this changed because I don’t like the scene at all, for the reasons you mentioned. “I want you” can be translated as “I desire you” so it’s not problematic to me. But the circumstances in which he said that were creepy.

(5) Hmmm interesting point! Of course emotional abuse can happen at the same time as physical abuse, but you are kinda right for Minthe’s character. It felt a little ooc for me too. She wasn’t that type of abuser and it was a weird choice. Also, there is a hierarchy and it is indeed very weird that a nymph could get away with abusing a god. The only case she wouldn’t be punished you be if Hades insisted on it. (Something we didn’t see).

(6) OOOOOH I AM INTRIGUED! Not that I care at this point about the characters, I just want to see the drama 😂 I might search a little more!

(7) Of course she holds ignorance towards Greek people; she thinks we are rich! (muahahahaha that was a bad joke, I will stop now :P ) Generally the comic doesn’t take into account the Greek culture which is offensive but in the characters I didn’t see anti-Greek prejudice. (I might be missing something, idk). In order to have prejudice against something, you need to aknowledge it first. Bold of you to assume she knows we exist 😂 

Maybe she made him super rich because he has the richest realm in Greek mythology. And, I mean, Greek noses are not limited to Jewish people, we also have them (my big pointy nose says hi!). I am sure there are Greek bankers with big noses. In fact, I would be surprise if they didn’t have a big nose 😂 

I understand that it can also be interpreted as anti-Semitism. But for the reasons I mentioned, I don’t think she aimed to do that. Plus, the character is supposed to be Greek, so I don’t see how Jewish people would be offended by this. Is not possible for every wealthy fictional non-Jewish character with a big nose to reflect Jewish negative stereotypes. It kinda seems that people want to take a bad depiction of one group (Greeks) and make it about another group (Jewish).

Maybe for Americans the stereotype “big nose + wealth” means Jewish but for Greeks... I don’t think we see it that way. For us a banker with a big nose is just a banker with a big nose. For example, look at the big and pointy nose of Aristoteles Onassis, a Greek shipping magnate who amassed the world's largest privately owned shipping fleet and was one of the world's richest and most famous men:

I read the scene with the bank account and... yeah it bad for the things you mentioned. Hades should not be making the decision of Persephone having a bank account. He should at least let her discuss it with her mother first. Plus, the story presents Demeter as a stupid uknowing peasant who thinks money grows on trees and banks are evil. 

[poplinn]

I do think that the new outbreak of toxic people drumming up their toxic groups in this fandom is hurting people. They think theyre doing something right but all they're doing is making mentally ill and/or young fans too scared to enjoy or create in fear of being harassed.

Hi anon! first of all i want to apologise for responding so late. I have a lot to say about your ask and just wanted a clear head before i decided  to respond. i want to start  off by saying you are absolutely right.

Before i continue i am going to put a read-more because, well, i have a LOT to say about this, so, mini-rant ahead under the read-more…

These people are doing more harm than good.

I understand if you want to make a small list with content warnings, for a fandom, that is completely fine! But using such a list to start bullying, harassing, threatening and in general, witch-hunting people is not okay. Many great and talented people have been driven away from the fandom by that tiny toxic group(or the cucks, as i like to call them for easy sakes). Content creators are even scared to post their content too now, both of these things are a huge shame. It’s terrible. Sites like tumblr are supposed to be for sharing your content without limitations. [well, until the nsfw ban, but you get what i mean..]

I happen to be in contact with some people on the blocklist, and let me tell you, they are truly amazing and wonderful people. 

Yeah sometimes people make content you may not agree with, but that doesn’t mean you have start attacking people for it. Do you know how easy it is to click the unfollow or block button? But apparently some people are so stupid they prefer to screech instead of click one single button. 

But for example, I dislike a certain popular hc for medic. I dislike the Jewish medic hc. I’m a Jewish man myself, but I don’t like seeing Jewish medic for multiple reasons, none of which are out of antisemitic nature. What do I see when I see Jewish medic? I mind my own fucking business. The person who posted that wanted to create that, fine by me. I don’t agree with it, and I don’t have to. I’m not going to make a dumb expose list for everyone who ever said anything about medic being Jewish. I mind my fucking business like a normal, mature person. 

And there was/is a huge discussion about drawing or writing tf2 non-con…yeah, rape isn’t good. Every sane person knows that. Writing or drawing rape does not mean you’re a rapist (unless it’s an autobiography of course, then I’d like you to take a trip to prison). But, some people, including myself, write or draw non-con as a coping mechanism. I use confrontation to cope. I have a few triggers, and by confronting myself with said triggers I’m slowly getting over said triggers.

If I write or draw about these triggers or rape, I feel like I’m relieving my feelings about what happened to me. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, and i’m not the only person who does it like that. 

Yeah, I get people don’t always want to see that. That’s why tags exist, that’s why people use those tags for content and trigger warnings. That’s why you block those tags if you don’t want to see it.  It’s that simple

Also, some of them make the claim that fiction is reality. I disagree, fiction is not reality. Yes, fiction can impact reality, but it isn’t one and the same. If you can’t distinguish fiction from reality then, well, you’re either not ready for fiction or not old/stable enough to be able to tell the two apart. Besides, if fiction really IS reality then so many movies and books would have been banned, or the writers of those must have been in jail by now, right? Writing a book about a fictional serial killer does not mean the writer is planning to or already has commit murder. Take Tf2 fan-fiction writers for example. They write about dudes slaughtering each other on a daily basis, but some of them wouldn’t even DARE to hit a fly in real life. 

People who commit crimes because of a fictional piece were already going to do so to begin with. No sane human sees a crime that occurs in fiction and thinks to do the same. Those who do commit crimes because of a fictional piece were already planning to do so to begin with, and were probably not a completely hundred percent stable person.

And about the discussion of miss p being a lesbian, yeah I get that Jay said she’s gay and that, and if she really was a Canon lesbian, it’d be weird to ship her with men. However, those cucks do also make soldier a homosexual despite him having a (gorgeous) wife? Isn’t that kind of hypocritical? Anyways, Jay most likely was joking about miss p being gay, he’s known to be a jokey person like that. I feel like the way he did it was just saying “oh yeah btw she’s gay”. To me it feels vague. In the same sense that jk Rowling suddenly says everyone is gay in Harry Potter. Yeah, I hc her as a funky lil lesbian too, but i don’t go off on a tangent when someone sees her as bi, because the way she was “confirmed” as a lesbian, was vague and uncertain, and most likely a dumb joke that split the fandom in half.    

Anyways, most of the cucks I ran into are underage, and aren’t even allowed on this site, which can explain their irrational behaviour, and refusing to listen to anyone who slightly disagrees with them, but lemme tell y'all something, minding your own fucking business would have prevented this entire blocklist ordeal.

Besides, YOU are in control of what you see on the Internet. Don’t like a certain type of content? BLOCK IT! or just, STOP LOOKING AT IT! it’s not that hard!

You are responsible for your own experience on the Internet. Not ready for that? Then close your phone/laptop and go outside. Content creators are not responsible for what you do online, these creators don’t know you, don’t expect them to fucking take care of you, they’re not your parents. Avoiding certain content does NOT mean you have to start policing others on what to post. You have no right to tell artist what they can and cannot post. Again, you may criticise or dislike it, that’s fine, but actively demanding censorship or threatening the creator makes you look like an incompetent asshole. 

And if you disagree with something, it’s better to start with calming yourself down and contacting the OP in a respectful and mature manner. Maybe talk to them, broaden your horizon, broaden their horizon. Can’t agree eventually? That’s fine, it’s normal. Simply block the tag or the creator themselves and boom! You’re done, and didn’t harm anyone in the fandom and probably learned something, and OP probably too! If something isn’t tagged you can always, nicely, reach out to OP and ask them to tag. Most of the time they will. And if they don’t, just unfollow or block them if they continue posting a certain something that triggers you. Making a blocklist is one of the most immature things you could do. You bully and harass people to the point where some feel unsafe, and some even suicidal, in a fandom about a dumb fucking hat Simulator. Is that really what you want?? A fandom is supposed to be a safe and fun place for everyone who likes a certain something. By being toxic, and harassing others to the point where they don’t even feel safe(not only those who are young or mentally ill) in a what was supposed to be a safe place for them, you’re actively harming that safe place, and frankly, you don’t deserve to be in the fandom. 

Also, I’ve seen a lot of these cucks say they actually hate tf2 as a game, and really, if you hate the game so much why are you still here in the fandom? And ruining it for the rest for us?

If you do feel unsafe, follow steps I mentioned above. Talk to people, block tags, block people, and mind your own business without policing others in what they can and cannot do. Unfortunately, the creators who do feel unsafe because of the toxic group cannot talk them, because the moment someone even slightly disagrees with them, or tries to respectfully discuss why they’re being “cancelled” the cucks start screeching like full-blown autists.

You’re not the law enforcement, you are (most likely) a minor who isn’t even allowed on tumblr in the first place, and who has no idea how the internet, or fandom spaces in specific, even work.

Fucking hell I miss 2014 Tf2 fandom sometimes. 

~~

I hope this ramble makes sense, and again I’m sorry for making this so long.

And I’m sorry for posting drama again, I don”t like it either, and i usually have a lot of patience, but after a few years of this shit, i have come to reach my boiling point, and i just snapped, I’m sorry.

I sometimes refer to the cucks as you, idk why, but just now that isn’t referring to you anon.

Hopefully this will be the last of drama/discourse for now.

Thank you for reading, have a good day. 

-pop 

[weedle-testaburger]

I’m kind of behind the south park fandom, but what was the p d p incident that happened ? I understand if this asks is too uncomfortable for you to answer, if it is then I’m really sorry for asking.

*

@anon no dw I’m OK with explaining it for people who don’t know about what p d p did! I should say TW for racism and antisemitism though.

There’s basically four stand-out incidents of the top of my head that have made a lot of people realize how racist he is. The first was when he got people who work for a company in India (I think? I know for a fact they didn’t know any English) to put up a sign saying ‘DEATH TO ALL JEWS’ as a ‘practical joke’. People have defended him by saying he didn’t expect them to really do it, but the fact remains that he could have, you know, not made a joke out of genocide and picked a harmless meme or something.

The second was when, during a PUBG stream, he got killed and yelled the N-word at the person who killed him. Again, why use a fucking racial slur instead of just swearing like a normal human being? And people have said it was ‘just in the heat of the moment’, but normal people can play videogames without yelling slurs. I mean, hbomberguy played the legendarily frustrating Donkey Kong 64 for almost 58 hours without saying anything racist, and plenty of gaming streamers have had channels for years without saying the N word, so p d p has no fucking excuse.

The third is when he did a video fairly recently highlighting his favourite YouTubers, and one of them was someone called TL;DR, who is unabashedly pro alt-right and makes a lot of racist shit. On a related note, he also follows several far-right nutballs on Twitter including Paul Joseph Watson (one of Alex Jones’ cronies) and Jordan Peterson.

And most recently, he planned to donate to a Jewish charity and then withdrew his donation ‘because of backlash from his fans’, in a video where he was wearing a jacket with an iron cross symbol from a company that produces Nazi-affiliated clothes. Admittedly the charity he donated to was apparently pro-Zionist, so it’s not like there was zero reason to not want to donate to it, but that’s not the reason he gave, and if he wanted the goodwill of people who aren’t anti-Semetic, it should have been. Hell, in a way the fact that was the charity he picked in the first place kinda makes it worse, because he should’ve done some damn research into what Jewish charities don’t have unpleasant ties like that.

If it’s OK, I wanna talk a little about the situation with his fans briefly, because I know several people who like p d p and want nothing to do with this stuff. I understand wanting to defend art you enjoy made by problematic people, I do that all the time. I enjoy plenty of things made by douchebags. The difference between that stuff and p d p is twofold- one, unlike the makers of a TV show or the author of a book or the band that made some music, p d p basically is his content, and you can’t really divorce the person from the art in the same way. And two, unfortunately the people in p d p’s fanbase who are far right are not only the majority, they’re the people he’s catering to with the racist shit.

So if you are a fan of p d p and aren’t alt-right and you’re reading this, stop defending him when he does this shit, because no defence for what he’s doing holds up to even basic scrutiny. He, like everyone else, deserves to be held accountable when he says or does something bigoted. And I and many other people would be very grateful if you stop supporting him.

I’m sorry this has been a pretty long post talking about a really horrible topic, but I hope it kinda coherently explains the situation with p d p!

[lesbianchemicalplant]

About & BYF

Late 20s white trans woman (she/her), gay/lesbian, poly, anti-clerical atheist (secular jew)

Contact

Mutuals and followers, please feel free to add me on discord: LesbianChemicalPlant#4532

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some personal blogging, otherwise mostly aesthetic/art/etc. and gay/trans stuff (here’s a list of tags I use for ease of navigation)

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Minors are also prohibited from using any of my tag pages, viewing my archive, or viewing the main page of my blog on desktop. Some tags may be specifically marked Minor Safe in future, but for now, all tag pages (as well as the archive view and main page of my blog on desktop) are to be assumed unsafe for minors. Minors may only view my blog through the dashboard, where unsafe posts marked “minors dni [/]” will be filtered out of view

Please do not follow if you’re a deranged reactionary, or any of these specifically:

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Anti-“Tankie” / you unironically use “tankie” as a serious term

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Believes anti-communist propaganda like Black Book Of Communism shit, Millions Of Trillions Dead etc.

Thinks “real communism has never been tried!! :)” is in any way accurate, a compelling argument, or a useful way of building on the last century of revolutionary practice

Contrapoints fandom [1], [2], [3], [4] (CW: transmisogyny/transphobia, racism, antisemitism, nazism, literal nazi fetish gear)

You follow or are followed by Billnihilism/Partialbirthabortion [1] [2] [3], Butchcommunist  [1] [4] [5] [6], LocalHorrorLesbian/MascPriv/Female-Husband [0] [1] [7], or Marxferatu/Fursonar/VladTheUnfollower [8] [9] (CW: transmisogyny/transphobia, TERFs)

I hate to have a list like this, but :/ If you’re not any of the above, I hope you’re having a wonderful day 💖

(I mean, if you’re a minor who doesn’t filter those tags, I still hope you’re having a wonderful day, but still please do not follow me, sorry!!)

Be wary of following if you’re any of these:

An anarchist. Basically, if you reblog my posts to bother me about my being A Tankie or Authoritarian or Statist, or to post cold war era propaganda about communist movements, I will block you.

A Demsoc. same as for anarchists

[janiedean]

ah well, enough’s enough.

so, I noticed that tumblr used @gamoralives who of course has preventively blocked me is going around publishing SCREENCAPS of my replies to that op about the holocaust but not of my actual replies because of course not and I was trying to reblog it from @galactic-jewce-box who in turn was reblogging it from @jewish-privilege but ALL THREE OF THEM HAVE BLOCKED ME OF COURSE SINCE I CANNOT TAG THEM, from which we can ABSOLUTELY NOTICE how strong is their spine since they can’t even talk to me properly.

okay then, I know that this post is not gonna get screencapped as a whole but since y’all are a bunch of immature assholes who think they can get away with slandering people behind their backs, spread misinformation and be honestly disgusting people because first they accuse ME of holocaust denial and then

 deny that categories other than jewish and roma people have died in it

completely ignore that queer people died in it

ignore that disabled died in it

ignore that the pacific front had another genocide going on that had equal if not higher numbers of dead people

have suddenly decided that wwii and the holocaust are two separated things when before they weren’t

spread misinformation about auschwitz works

complain about polish ppl not fighting the nazis enough and then literally spit on the ones who did by going like IF A HANDFUL OF POLISH GENTILES DIED IT DOESN’T MATTER guess what you completely fucking asshole those people were political prisoners and I have absolutely no qualms calling you an asshole by this point so they died to fight the nazis but I guess that’s not good enough for YOU ALL FUCKING AMERICANS WHO HAVEN’T EVER SET A FOOT IN EUROPE HAVE YOU

I’m going at it. bye.

so, what my pals had to say about me.

THIS is what gamoralives screenshotted:

of course, she didn’t, like, LINK TO EITHER OF MY OPS, one and two in which I said a lot of things, INCLUDING:

like no one is denying that jewish people were the the most targeted category and no one is even dreaming of it and no one is denying that everyone had responsibilities in the jewish ethnic cleansing but the ‘blame the polish at all costs’ mentality I’m seeing in some comments on this post is honestly baffling and not really what brings us to a constructive discussion on the topic.

but of course y’all could not, like, directly engage with me on my op. nooooo. YOU SCREENSHOTTED THE REPLIES TO MY OP BY PEOPLE WHO WERE AGREEING WITH ME AND THEN GO AROUND SAYING I’M ANTISEMITE. GOD YOU’RE FUCKING COWARDS.

but never mind that.

so, what else does my pal, my friend gamoralives (WHO NEVER ONCE TOUCHED THE TOPIC DIRECTLY WITH ME lmao) have to say about me?

OOOOH, IT DISGUSTS YOU?

let’s see what disgusts me instead.

this is one of the OPs that got the screenshot from the OP of that post which we all know was yours like shut up don’t even try to deny it is:

that’s what some pal of yours had to say:

THEN YOU GO AND SAY THIS:

like YOU GODDAMNED IDIOTS YOU REALLY THINK Y’ALL CAN SPIN THIS AGREEING WITH ‘HOLOCAUST AND THE WWII BELONG TO ONE GROUP ONLY’ AND THEN YOU DO A 180° AND SAY THAT WWII AND THE HOLOCAUST ARE TWO SEPARATED THINGS????????????

LIKE???????

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS????

YOU SAID THAT WWII ***AND*** THE HOLOCAUST ARE PROPERTY OF JUST JEWISH PEOPLE AND ROMANI AND THEN YOU GO AND CLAIM THAT WWII IS NOT THE HOLOCAUST?

LIKE??????

but it’s not even the worst because honestly I still have fucking vomit in my mouth from this:

and then you do this:

YOU GODDAMNED - I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO CALL YOU, I HONESTLY HAVE EXHAUSTED THE WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, BUT SINCE YOU’RE SO EXPERT IN ANYTHING WWII, PLEASE LET ME FUCKING C/P YOU A THING YOU CAN FIND ON THE FUCKING AUSCHWITZ WEBSITE MUSEUM PAGE which you’d know if you actually set foot in there (spoilers: my antisemite ass did and I actually went to krakow 40% for the rest and 60% because I’ve been wanting to visit since I was fucking eight because I started reading up about concentration camps and studying wwii when I was in elementary school because I was interested and I never stopped, differently from you who most likely only learned how to *research* now by c/p-ing together information that doesn’t count the other side but oKAY THEN):

Gas chamber I

Auschwitz I, Crematorium I and the first gas chamber

This object is preserved in an original state to a large degree. Crematorium I operated from August 1940 in a prewar ammunition bunker adapted for its new function. The largest room was a morgue, which was changed into a provisional gas chamber. There were three furnaces for burning corpses in crematorium I, ordered by the camp administration from the Topf and Söhne company, which installed them.

When the gas chambers in Birkenau were going into operation, the camp authorities transferred the mass killing operation there and gradually phased out the first gas chamber. In July 1943, after the completion of the Birkenau crematoria, the burning of corpses in crematorium I ended. The furnaces and chimney were dismantled, and the holes in the roof used for introducing Zyklon B were closed. Two of the three furnaces and the chimney were reconstructed (from original parts), and several of the holes in the roof of the gas chamber were reopened.

Outside the boundaries of the Museum, the railroad siding and unloading platform (the so-called Judenramp or "old ramp") is commemorated. Transports of Jews deported for killing, and also of Roma and prisoners of other nationalities, arrived here from 1942-1944.

YOU GODDAMNED FUCKING ASSHOLE, YOU ARE SAYING THAT *AUSCHWITZ AND BIRKENAU WERE DIFFERENT CAMPS AND THAT NO ONE DIED SYSTEMATICALLY IN AUSCHWITZ BUT THEY DID IN BIRKENAU WHEN BIRKENAU WAS BUILT WHEN THEY DIDN’T HAVE SPACE IN AUSCHWITZ ANYMORE TO KILL PEOPLE *INCLUDING FUCKING POLISH POLITICAL PRISONERS WHO WERE THE FIRST CATEGORY IN THERE FOR TWO FUCKING YEARS* AND THEN *I* AM THE ONE DOING HISTORICAL REVISIONISM??? ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL??

MISCONCEPTION?????

MISCONCEPTION???????

and *I* m the revisionis according to you???????

and you actually don’t have the decency to realize you’re wrong and like drop this conversation and shut the fuck up already?

nooooooo trash talk me and say to pre-eventively block because why the fuck not?

here, you want pictures because you don’t trust the website?

I FUCKING TOOK THEM WHEN I WENT. HAVE YOU? SINCE YOU’RE FUCKING ***AMERICAN*** I DOUBT IT AND TBH YOU BEING AMERICAN IN THIS CASE TRUMPS WHATEVER ELSE YOU ARE BECAUSE AMERICANS TALKING ABOUT WWII AS IF THEY LIVED IT WHEN THEY DON’T HAVE A RELATIVE THAT FOUGHT IN IT CAN, AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED, SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY, SIT BACK AND LEARN FROM US PEOPLE WHO LIVE WHERE IT WAS ACTUALLY FOUGHT.

anyway, this is the gas chamber + ovens in auschwitz 1. I was inside it. it wasn’t nice. I still wanna vomit if I think about it. sure as hell I wouldn’t be using it to prove a point about fandom if I were you.

that’s the ovens:

BUT NONE OF THAT EXISTED IN AUSCHWITZ 1????????

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????

then again, have a few other choice things that I took pictures of while I was having my merry stroll around the place while trying to not throw up in my mouth:

LOOK AT HOW MANY CATEGORIES ARE LISTED IN THAT HANDY, PRETTY CHART, HMMMMMM? I even put the high-res picture in case you wanna look at it in depth :D

that’s the monument for FRENCH PATRIOTS OF WAR BUT I GUESS THOSE don’t count either. aaaah and wait a moment I went into the barracks and took pictures of the explanations and look at what I have for you:

just in case you can’t bother to open it: that’s about the execution of polish citizens and the quote of the nazi commander in the white tag is:

‘'if I wanted to put up a poster for every seven poles who were shot the polish forests wouldn't be enough to produce the paper for such notices'.

UHM. A HANDFUL OF POLISH GOYIM, @gamoralives? god, you’re such a blatant, spineless hypocrite I can’t even.

ah, but wait, I’m not done:

I think that one’s large enough you can read it yourself.

like, wow, and I am the revisionist.

I’d say kindly shut the fuck up just based on that, but hey, then you went and reblogged this piece of shit post which has been making me almost vomit my tea all over again:

POOR

DEFENSELESS

EUROPEANS IN NAZI OCCUPIED COUNTRIES

for WILLINGLY HANDING THEIR JEWS OVER TO GERMANS?????????????????? MOST EUROPEANS WERE GLAD?????????

@tikkunolamorgtfo I’M TAGGING YOU BECAUSE APPARENTLY YOU HAVEN’T BLOCKED ME YET, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? FUCK. YOU.

NAZIS FORCIBLY INVADED MOST OF THIS GODDAMNED FUCKING CONTINENT. THE FRENCH CERTAINLY DIDN’T WANT GERMANS ON THEIR SOIL. THE POLISH DIDN’T AS WELL AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT GIVEN POLAND’S HISTORY WITH BOTH THEM AND THE RUSSIANS. THE SLOVENES, HUNGARIANS, CZECHS AND SERBS SURE AS FUCKING HELL DIDN’T ASK FOR IT EITHER, NOR THE NETHERLANDS WHICH WERE NEUTRAL AND NOR THE DANISH NOR BELGIUM AND YOU GODDAMNED LYING ASSHOLE, if you go to the copenhagen jewish museum there’s an entire part of it just dedicated to how the danish rallied and tried to send off to sweden as many jewish people as they could.

but no, you’re here saying that we’re all happy that the nazis/russians/americans/whoever else occupied our damned nations and did whatever the fuck they wanted just because we wanted to get rid of the jewish people?

well I’m going to tell you a story since y’all are so sure I can’t talk about wwii because I’m neither jewish nor roma but never mind. one or two. to you, gamoralives and all the goddamned assholes on that thread who didn’t even have the guts to engage with me directly because you know you’re wrong. and since I’m from italy, THE LAND OF THE DOUBLE-CROSSING PPL DURING WARS, let me just tell you a few things I can say as someone who’s studied this shit for twenty years.

1) hitler thought mussolini was his role model and shit. guess what, fascism initially targeted some categories, which were either killed or sent off to ‘confino’ which was basically ‘we’re sending you to a small town in the middle of nowhere where everyone knows you don’t like the regime’. who got sent to confino? political adversaries, gay men, prostitutes and trans people. and while sad to say ghetto is an originally italian word so we have our bad history of antisemitism as well, guess what, there were no laws against jewish people until ‘38 when mussolini officially allied with hitler and had to get on with the plan, and actually ALL THE NEOFASCISTS IN ITALY WHO JUSTIFY HIM SAY THAT ‘HEY HE WAS GOOD BUT THEN HE MADE THE MISTAKE OF LISTENING TO HITLER AND DOING THE RACIAL LAWS’, but you wouldn’t know that, would you? while europe has never not been antisemite BUT actually at the beginning of the 20th century things had been going better until hitler showed up, NO ONE WAS FUCKING THINKING ABOUT GENOCID-ING ANYONE IN THOSE TERMS. but okay.

2) the italian government seeing how the tide was turning in 1943 decided to change sides and go with the americans instead after deposing mussolini - fair enough, except that THEY DIDN’T WARN ANYONE LESS OF ALL THE ITALIAN ARMY which resulted in all the italian soldiers stationed in places not under allied control to end up deported to concentration camps and so on, except that then it gets better because italy got split in two with americans south of salerno and the germans north of it which meant we ended up in a civil war where partisans fought nazis in the north and americans tried to advance from the south and hmm

wow, just the russians whose total death toll was TWENTY MILLION did better than us but never mind that, SINCE YOU DIDN’T BOTHER TO READ MY OP, LET ME REMIND YOU THAT THE GERMANS WENT AROUND KILLING CIVILIANS RANDOMLY INCLUDING 130 CHILDREN AT ONCE FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THE CIVIL WAR AND THAT THE ALLIED FRENCH ARMY POST-CASSINO RAPED AN AMOUNT OF MOST LIKELY 7K PEOPLE CAUSING A RIDICULOUSLY HIGH NUMBER OF SUICIDES ESPECIALLY IN BETWEEN WOMEN, but if you’d fucking bother, never mind:

After the armistice with the Allies, some 650,000 members of the Italian armed forces who refused to side with the occupying Germans were interned in concentration and labour camps. Of these, around 50,000 died while imprisoned or while under transportation. A further 29,000 died in armed struggles against the Germans while resisting capture immediately following the armistice

how bad, but:

marzabotto massacre (700+ dead)

fosse ardeatine massacre

sant’anna di stazzema massacre (130 children including A TWENTY-DAYS OLD)

or you could go on the WHOLE WIKIPEDIA PAGE ABOUT WWII massacres here where idk I’m opening a few pages at random of stuff happened in PLACES THAT THE NAZIS OCCUPIED:

Kisielin massacre was a massacre of Polish worshipers which took place in the Volhynian village of Kisielin (Second Polish Republicuntil 1939), now Kysylyn, located in the Volyn Oblast, Ukraine. It took place on Sunday, July 11, 1943, when units of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), supported by local Ukrainian peasants, surrounded Poles who had gathered for a ceremony at a local Roman-Catholic church. Around 60 to 90 persons or more, men, women and children – were ordered to take off their clothes and were then massacred by machine gun. The wounded were killed with weapons such as axes and knives. Those who survived (around 200 by some accounts) escaped to the presbytery and barricaded themselves for eleven hours.

The Kragujevac massacre was the mass murder of between 2,778 and 2,794 mostly Serb men and boys in Kragujevac by Germansoldiers on 21 October 1941. It occurred in the German-occupied territory of Serbia during World War II, and came in reprisal for insurgent attacks in the Gornji Milanovac district that resulted in the deaths of 10 German soldiers and the wounding of 26 others. The number of hostages to be shot was calculated as a ratio of 100 hostages executed for every German soldier killed and 50 hostages executed for every German soldier wounded, a formula devised by Adolf Hitler with the intent of suppressing anti-Nazi resistance in Eastern Europe. (3k deaths total)

The Kraljevo massacre was the mass murder of approximately 2,000 residents of the central Serbian city of Kraljevo by the Wehrmacht between 15 and 20 October 1941, during World War II. The massacre came in reprisal for a joint Partisan–Chetnik attack on a German garrison in which 10 German soldiers were killed and 14 wounded. The number of hostages to be shot was calculated based on a ratio of 100 hostages executed for every German soldier killed and 50 hostages executed for every German soldier wounded, a formula devised by Adolf Hitler with the intent of suppressing anti-Nazi resistance in Eastern Europe.

In World War II, in Nazi-occupied Czechoslovakia, the Lidice massacre was a complete destruction of the village of Lidice, in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, now in the Czech Republic, in June 1942 on orders from Adolf Hitler and Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler.In reprisal for the assassination of Reich Protector Reinhard Heydrich in the late spring of 1942, all 173 males over 15 years of age from the village were executed on 10 June 1942. Another 11 men who were not in the village were arrested and executed soon afterwards, along with several others already under arrest. The 184 women and 88 children were deported to concentration camps; a few children considered racially suitable for Germanisation were handed over to SS families and the rest were sent to the Chełmno extermination camp where they were gassed to death. The Associated Press, quoting German radio received in New York, said: "All male grownups of the town were shot, while the women were placed in a concentration camp, and the children were entrusted to appropriate educational institutions." About 340 people from Lidice died because of the German reprisal (192 men, 60 women and 88 children) and after the war ended, only 153 women and 17 children returned.

The Maillé Massacre refers to the murder on 25 August 1944 of 124 of the 500 residents of the commune of Maillé in the department of the Indre-et-Loire. Following an ambush a few days before and in reprisals against activities of the French Resistance, Second Lieutenant Gustav Schlüter and his men organized the massacre and burnt the village. Forty-eight children were among the dead. The SS unit believed to be responsible for the massacre is the SS-Feldersatzbataillon 17 of 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen (Lieb, 2007). In contrast to Oradour-sur-Glane, the village was rebuilt after the war to its pre-war state (Delahousse, 2008).

The Muczne massacre of 16 August 1944 was the massacre of Polish civilians committed by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) in village Muczne located in Bieszczady County in Poland.Among the Poles were mainly refugees after the repression of the population in Volhynia and retreating in front of - 70 Poles were murdered. They were residents of nearby villages such as foresters, priests and children. Members of the UPA murdered Poles with axes, pitchforks and scythes.In place of the murder in 2010 the memorial and a wooden cross was erected.

The Palikrowy massacre was a war crime committed by 4th police SS-regiment made up of Ukrainian soldiers of the SS-Galizien who were removed from the SS-Galizien at the time of the massacre and placed under German police command, Ukrainian SVK ("Self-defence", Ukrainian: Samoobronni Kuszczowi Widdiły) forces and Ukrainian Insurgent Army on Poles in the village of Palikrowy (since 1945 Palykorovy), which took place on 12 March 1944. A total of 385 Poles were killed. Palikrowy was an ethnically mixed village, with 70% Polish population. In 1944, the population was about 1880, with about 360 houses. The action in Palikrowy was coordinated with the attack on nearby Pidkamin including the monastery in Pidkamin, where some of inhabitants from Palikrowy were hiding during the massacre of Poles in Volhynia. All the inhabitants of Palikrowy were gathered on a meadow near village. The Ukrainian inhabitants of the village were released. Then the Poles were killed by two heavy machine guns. Only a few wounded people survived. Polish houses were burned down and hiding Polish civilians were murdered, and their property stolen.

or, SINCE WE’RE DISCUSSING THE POLISH: The massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia (Polish: rzeź wołyńska, literally: Volhynian slaughter; Ukrainian: Волинська трагедія, Volyn tragedy), was an ethnic cleansing (some polish scientiests think that was a genocide) carried out in Nazi German-occupied Poland by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (the UPA) against Poles in the area of Volhynia, Polesia, Lublin region and Eastern Galicia beginning in 1943 and lasting up to 1945. The peak of the genocide took place in July and August 1943. Most of the victims were women and children. UPA's methods were particularly brutal, with many of the victims being tortured and mutilated, and resulted in 40,000–60,000 Polish deaths in Volhynia and 30,000–40,000 in Eastern Galicia, with the other regions for the total about 100,000.

The Janowa Dolina massacre took place on 23 April 1943 in the village of Janowa Dolina, (now Bazaltove, Ukraine) during occupation of Poland in World War II. Before the Nazi-Soviet invasion of the Polish Second Republic, Janowa Dolina was a model settlement built in the Kostopol County of the Wołyń Voivodeship by workers of the Polish State Basalt Quarry. The town was inhabited by 2,500 people. Its name, which translates as the "Jan's Valley" in Polish, came from the Polish king Jan Kazimierz, who reportedly hunted in the Volhynian forests, and after hunting — rested on the shore of the Horyń (Horyn) River. The town was destroyed during World War II by Ukrainian nationalists who murdered most of its Polish population including women and children

The massacre of Uus street was committed by German forces and local collaborators on 30 August 1941 in Tallinn.German forces occupied Tallinn on 28 August 1941 after the Soviet evacuation of Tallinn. The German occupation forces included a local Omakaitse militia. Einsatzgruppe Acommanded by Franz Walter Stahlecker closely followed the German front units, actively recruiting local nationalists and antisemitic groups to instigate pogroms against the local Jewish population.

The Huta Pieniacka massacre was a massacre of the Polish inhabitants of the village Huta Pieniacka, located in modern-day Ukraine, which took place on February 28, 1944. Estimates of the number of victims range from 500, to 1,200. Polish and Ukrainian historians disagree over the responsibility for the Huta Pienacka massacre. According to the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, the action was committed by the 14th subunit of the '1st Ukrainian' Grenadier Division of the Waffen-SS. Polish witnesses testified that the orders were given by German officers. According to Ukrainian sources, it was committed by the German police battalions. According to witness accounts and scholarly publications, SS Galizien were accompanied by a paramilitary unit of Ukrainian nationalists under Włodzimierz (Vladimir) Czerniawski's command, including members of the UPA and inhabitants of local villages who intended to seize property found in the households of the murdered.

I’m not going ahead because this post is already too long but I’d really like to ask tumblr user @tikkunolamorgtfo if they think that ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DIED AS A RESULT OF WWII HAPPENING IN THE AFOREMENTIONED INSTANCES WOULD HAVE SIGNED FOR IT IN EXCHANGE FOR HAVING ALL THE JEWISH POPULATION REMOVED.

LIKE.

ARE YOU *SERIOUSLY* IMPLYING THAT ALL OF THE ABOVE WAS A THING EUROPEAN CIVILIANS FROM OCCUPIED NATIONS WERE OKAY WITH BECAUSE IN EXCHANGE THEY COULD SEND JEWISH PEOPLE TO DEATH???? BECAUSE THAT’S LIKE, FUCKING DISGUSTING, AND YOU’RE HONESTLY OVERREACHING LIKE NOTHING ELSE HERE. but nah, sure thing, everyone was so antisemite they totally would have died as well because hey, at least the category we hate more than we love ourselves gets to die, right?

you fucking asshole, of course in an occupied country people will collaborate with the forces occupying it in order to survive and to not get killed especially if you have a family, but assuming that we all accepted it and actually wanted it to happen is disgusting, not true, a slap in the face of everyone who died fighting the nazis and it can only come from someone who has no fucking clue of the vast consequences wwii had on everyone in this fucking thrice-darned continent. 

also, y’all demeaning the polish deaths in auschwitz/during their occupation in WWII is fucking insulting af because sorry but:

first you say the polish weren’t doing enough to fight against the nazis (even i they also were specifically targeted but y’all keep on ignoring that)

then you ignore that most polish people who died in concentration camps (YES IN AUSCHWITZ AND BIRKENAU TOO YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES) WERE POLITICAL FUCKING PRISONERS

POLITICAL PRISONERS

WHICH MEANS THEY WERE EITHER COMMUNIST OR SOCIALIST OR ANTI-NAZI OR ONE OR MORE OF THEM

WHICH MEANS *THEY DIED BECAUSE THEY WERE ANTI-NAZI* 

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED POLISH PEOPLE TO DO

AND YOU *DARE* SPITTING ON THOSE DEATHS SAYING THAT IT WAS A HANDFUL????

let me c/p it for you:

The number of Polish dead are estimated to number between 5.6 and 5.8 million according to the Institute of National Remembrance(2009). Documentation remains fragmentary, but today scholars of independent Poland believe that 1.8 to 1.9 million Polish civilians (non-Jews) and 3 million jews were victims of German Occupation policies and the war for a total of just under 5 million dead.

FIVE/FIVE-AND A HALF MILLION PEOPLE.

AND YOU CALL IT FUCKING HANDFUL?

NO ONE, LIKE LITERALLY NO ONE TRIED TO SAY THE JEWISH WEREN’T THE MAIN VICTIMS/TARGETS OF THE HOLOCAUST/WWII.

BUT YOU ARE SAYING THE ABOVE DOESN’T MATTER AND YOU’RE PROCEEDING TO INSULT THE MEMORY OF EVERYONE WHO FUCKING DIED THANKS TO THE NAZIS IN WWII and I haven’t even touched the russian war crimes but nvm that. honestly? HONESTLY?

AND I AM THE HISTORICAL REVISIONIST THAT YOUR FUCKING FRIENDS WON’T EVEN REBLOG FROM DIRECTLY AND BLOCK BEFORE SHE CAN DEFEND HERSELF BECAUSE DEEP DOWN THEY KNOW THEY’RE SPROUTING BULLSHIT?

HAHAHAHAHAHA.jpeg.

like. NO ONE like NO ONE IS EVER DENYING IT and fyi you’re talking to someone who has more than once defended the existence of israel in front of people who say it should be obliterated exactly because I think its *existence* is the least we owe jewish people for the european history of antisemitism that we have on our shoulders, and if you want the receipts I even did it on this hellsite once, HERE if you want to see how fucking antisemite I am.

but you and your friends are purposefully downplaying about everything that’s not what you want, and on top of that you are excluding from your holocaust victim list:

THIS IS A FUCKING OFFICIAL-ISH LIST OF HOLOCAUST VICTIMS.

all these categories were targeted under the holocaust.

that’s historical facts.

you cannot go and say that someone stating the facts is doing revisionism when the only people doing any such thing are you and your fucking friends.

ALSO, since y’all are absolutely denying the existence of the pacific front, I will remind you kindly a few things:

unit 731 existed;

the japanese made twice the victims compared to the nazist;

japanese war crimes have zero to envy the nazi war crimes tbqh;

and since y’all are so fond of doing math to prove that the polish were shitty and that they were, like, WORSE THAN ANY OTHER OCCUPIED NATION (spoilers: lmao) and to demean the fact that even with that they still have more than a quarter of the names in the just among the nations (ps: in krakow’s history of wwii museum [or the schindler factory now I don’t recall] there are two computers with a huge af database of names. on the left you have the people who helped the jewish people somehow, on the right you have the collaborationists and you can read their life story. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THEY ARE AWARE SOME OF THEM WERE ASSHOLES), and since y’all are a bunch of hypocrites who use real life tragedies to make a fandom point and insult idek how many people in the meantime and are also a number of things I’ll say at the end, let me do some basic math for you and I’ll also show you that reading the war in black and white is lost effort:

see that chart above?

SEE THE NUMBERS?

okay then.

jewish people: six million.

roma people: between 130k and 5k.

serbians: between 300k people and 600k people. THEY EVEN CRANK THAT TOP FIVE. WOW, AMRITE?

now. let’s take the lowest one and say that the serbians killed were 300k people.

THE NANKING MASSACRE ONLY - THAT ONE ONLY - HAD A DEATH TOLL OF 300K PEOPLE.

which means that the japanese killed in one single occasion/war crime/however you call it as many serbians as the nazis did in the course of the entire fucking war, or half the number if you take the 600k figure. but wait a moment, who, during the whole nanking affair, saved 250k people?

A FUCKING GERMAN BUSINESSMAN NAMED JOHN RABE WHO WAS ACTUALLY IN THE NAZI PARTY AND STILL SAVED THAT MANY PEOPLE TO THE POINT THAT WHEN AFTER THE WAR HE FELL INTO DISGRACE AND HE COULDN’T EAT, PEOPLE FROM NANKING SENT HIM FOOD AND RALLIED UP MONEY FOR HIM AND GUESS WHAT AFTER HE DIED HE WAS EVENTUALLY BURIED THERE RATHER THAN IN GERMANY.

like.

as I said in my first op which of course you didn’t fucking bother to link, WWII and the holocaust and the asian genocide AND everything that made it up including the pacific front that y’all just don’t really want to acknowledge, is the most fucking mucked up ethical situation in existence because again, not counting the targeted categories of the mass genocide(s) and even with that we can discuss because as we said some polish people were collaborators, the russians persecuted jewish people themselves and so on, EVERYONE ON EVERY SIDE COMMITTED ETHICAL ATROCITIES AND WHILE OF COURSE THE ALLIES EVENTUALLY WERE IN THE RIGHT POSITION THEY CERTAINLY DIDN’T SHY FROM DOING EXTREMELY SHITTY THINGS AND I’M SAYING BRITISH, AMERICANS, RUSSIANS AND EVERYONE INVOLVED AND THE WESTERN BETRAYAL ISN’T EVEN HALF OF IT. and wwii is world war two because it involved the entire fucking planet, so trying to tell people that *TWO* CATEGORIES OWN IT AND NO ONE ELSE CAN TALK ABOUT IT IS A) DEMEANING EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED DURING IT, B) FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

ALSO, y’all are still glossing over the fact that - NOT EVEN COUNTING THE POLITICAL PRISONERS DISCOURSE because I know that getting you to agree that communists, socialist and prisoners of war could be a targeted category is wasting time - SPECIFIC TARGETED VICTIMS OF THE ****HOLOCAUST**** WERE:

disabled people because they were disabled (and most of those either were killed straight or were used for medical experiments and none of those survived) so thanks for being ableist fucks and forgetting 270k people;

gay people/queer people because they were fucking gay/queer and guess what MOST OF THE SURVIVED ONES GOT ARRESTED LATER BECAUSE BEING GAY WAS STILL A CRIME ANYWAY so hey thanks for forgetting those 15k people as well, I’m sure you love the smell of homophobia in the morning;

polish + serbians + slavic people FOR BEING SLAVIC and that chart isn’t counting the hungarians/czechs as well so like if we take it with the highest value we can say you’re forgetting four million people tops and HERE in europe it’d be considered as pretty damn racist because yes you can be racist against slavic people;

the poor jehova’s witnesses obviously deserved to die there because they like to press your intercom button to tell you about our lord and savior jesus christ I guess, but nvm it was enough of them they had their purple little triangle in auschwitz, the place where PEOPLE DIDN’T DIE;

we’re obviously not gonna touch the poor spanish revolutionaries who were from a place with a huuuuuuhhhhh fascist dictatorship? ah well, 7k is really not that much, right?

idk what you want to do with the data about russians pows/civilians which if we take the highest count as in 4.5 + 3.3 makes for a whopping 7,8 million people that makes a little more than 1/4 of the total 20 million ussr casualties on a total of 80 million total which means that one fucking fourth of ALL wwii casualties were russians, but hey, that’s math for you.

the entire point is that YOU CANNOT RECLAIM OWNERSHIP OF A HISTORICAL EVEN WHERE THAT MANY PEOPLE DIED AND THINGS WERE ETHICALLY MUCKED ON BOTH SIDES AND SIMPLIFYING THINGS IS NOT A THING YOU CAN OR SHOULD DO OUT OF INTELLECTUAL HONESTY and like... first y’all say wwii and the holocaust are one thing, then that they’re separate, THEN YOUR FUCKING PAL GAMORALIVES HAS THE GALL TO SAY THAT SHIT ABOUT AUSCHWITZ AND BIRKENAU WHICH IS LITERALLY THE FIRST THING YOU LEARN WHEN YOU OPEN A FUCKING BOOK ABOUT AUSCHWITZ AND YOU DON’T EVEN CALL HER OUT ON *THAT* BULLSHIT, BUT THEN YOU GO AROUND SAYING THAT WE’RE REVISIONISTS???

BECAUSE WE SAID THE FACTUAL TRUTH IE THAT A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT CATEGORIES DIED BECAUSE OF NAZI CRIMES?

like, especially if you’re american and your grandfather didn’t risk losing a limb or getting ptsd in this damned war: don’t. and tbh if you’re american and willingly ignore the pacific front when the usa basically shouldered most of that side of the war by themselves out of all the allied coalition idek what you learn in school but I’m fucking worried about your educational system.

but sure go around saying that that I’m an *antisemite* just because I told you the actual historical facts while you demean around, idk, 70 million people deaths with your arguments contradicting themselves and @gamoralives goes around sprouting factual bullshit about how auschwitz works (because excuse me that’s factual bullshit period) and y’all do it after having blocked me preventively (okay, the tumblr user I tagged hasn’t yet but I’m sure it’s a short time coming) and haven’t engaged with me directly once because I have an inkling that having my original OPs on their blog would have made them look like the assholes they are. totes makes sense. next time I run into my former ***self-declared fascist*** classmates who called me a jew-abiding commie when I was nine I’ll tell them that according to you I agree with them. jfc.

and fyi, I never, never, NEVER in my entire life read anything by a jewish wwii survivor or a jewish wwii historian or anyone jewish discussing wwii/writing about wwii/making movies about wwii where the message was your message. the message usually was ‘we were the main targeted party but other people were with us as well and we can only hope it never happens again if everyone knows about it and talks about it’, and I can assure you I read wwii fiction, nonfiction and such on made by people of every damned background including memorials of camps survivors.

I mean, you ever read this is a man?

written by italian jewish chemist-then-writer primo levi who survived auschwitz and later killed himself out of survivor’s guilt?

I mean, if I were you I’d consider reading this shit and then avoiding saying things that go directly against what actual auschwitz survivors had to say about the entire thing while automatically having a greater understanding of how human nature works than any of us in this discussion, but what have you, you have the infused truth given to you and no one else around here has and you’re all, constantly, treating world war two as if it happened in a social context that’s, guess what, the usa’s.

it. was. not. deal with it and for the love of fucking everything at least if you want to call me an antisemite do it to my fucking face and not vagueblogging about me and only c/p-ing comments and not, like, THE ENTIRE OP.

but hey, we all know that if you knew you were in the right you would let your followers read what I actually said in the first place.

but honestly, honestly, I’m fucking appalled that I had to write all of this crap down and that we’re fucking comparing AUSCHWITZ CAMPS BECAUSE Y’ALL WANT TO MAKE A POINT ABOUT A DUMBASS *FICTIONAL FANFIC THAT WASN’T EVEN WRITTEN YET* AND YOU’RE DOING THIS OVER SHIP FANDOM DRAMA.

I mean, it seems to me that discussing this shit over fucking fandom drama is tasteless and honestly insulting af but whatever, you have the incensed truth of it.

please come at me and tell me how wrong I am.

to my face, thank you. btw: it’s rich of you to assume that poland in wwii was the template for how every other country behaved especially bc poland has a specific history that’s not shared by most other european countries, but reading your posts one starts thinking that according to you most of wwii got fought in poland while everyone else was chilling back and sending targeted categories to concentration camps while sipping a few margaritas and then all of a sudden the americans decided to drop the h bomb on the japanese BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE IT (I mean you didn’t say that but knowing how tumblr talks about wwii I have a feeling it’s where it’s headed) and then it was all over but let me tell you, it’s so wrong and simplicistic and misinformed and misleading that I don’t think the level of a-historicism in all of your posts - and your friends’s which I haven’t shared because otherwise I’d have been here until tomorrow - is so mind-boggling it’s not quantifiable.

cheers. ps: technically I could report you for slandering me because that’s just about what you did. think about that. and no, you couldn’t report me for the contrary because differently from you I never said anything that wasn’t true or sourced and most of all I never once said jewish people weren’t the most targeted group.

have fun, I guess, if you read this far.

ah, btw, just because you’re demeaning consequences of wwii on civilians: my grandmother didn’t fight in it and wasn’t part of any targeted category, but they were starving so much during the war (and they were in the american side of italy good for them) that for the following sixty years up until she died she wouldn’t waste a drop of food, she wouldn’t spend a cent that wasn’t absolutely necessary and wouldn’t go to the doctor’s because IT WASN’T AS BAD AS THE WAR and every time anyone told her to take a rest she’d say that WE WEREN’T IN THE WAR SO WE COULDN’T UNDERSTAND and it ended with all of her kids having... issues that more or less go back to that and her approach on life made sure that she spent her old age suffering for shit she could have helped but wouldn’t because THE WAR and she died after one year of real fucking bad conditions BECAUSE SHE ENDED UP IN THOSE CONDITIONS BECAUSE OF HER ISSUES THAT WENT BACK TO FUCKING WWII and if it was like that for her try imagine people who fought in it or survived it or their descendants and come tell me to my face again that no one else suffered because of the fucking second world war.

sincerely, go fuck yourself. all of you. and I hope you feel half-ashamed that you went as far as this but I have a feeling y’all are so self-centered you wouldn’t get it.

ps: I’m done with this discourse from this point on but like if y’all think I’m letting you shit talk me behind my back you can forget it. :)

[jewpacabruhs]

Why does antisemitism exist? Why dont people like jews??? Theyre people???? What???^^??,;""????m

(EDIT: wrote this response up several months ago - prior to the october shooting. never posted ‘cause i felt it was too harrowing and deep for a fandom blog, but you know what? anon asked a question; anon deserves an answer.)

oh hun….. that’s a big ol discussion right there. people have always hated other people. why hatred seems to be as natural to humans as breathing is beyond most decent human beings, myself included. the “why” aside, i think, ultimately, people have always hated those different from them. jews have always been easy scapegoats. we’re an easy target, an easy place to direct hatred, and since we’ve always been rather universally hated, no one really defends us, so it’s easy to attack us without consequence.

additionally, jews have been around long enough, and we’ve been widespread enough, that we’ve been hated for a very, very long time by many societies. we’ve seen the rise and fall of dozens of civilizations, and we’ve survived, but not without causalities. literally every single empire has viewed jews as inferior. we were enslaved in half of them, despised in all of them. murdered en masse far too frequently.

originally, it was because judaism was a monotheistic religion at times when polytheistic religions were the norm. that’s why the egyptians kept us as slaves and ancient greece and romans viewed early jews as subhuman and lead attacks on jewish communities. our views differed from the norm, though we’d held our beliefs longer than they’d had theirs. 

as christianity rose, and the whole jesus thing happened, we were hated for 1) “killing jesus” even though the romans were the executioners, jews were merely the judges and you’d doubt someone who claimed they were g-d’s son, too 2) not converting to christianity as more & more people did, 3) simply being different.

and after that - well, if i listed all the times jews have been persecuted and massacred throughout the last two thousand years, this would be an incredibly long response, and i’d get p fucking depressed. 

i can honestly say every single one of my ancestors suffered at the hands of antisemitism. and not casual microaggressions - antisemitism has always linked to death. we get murdered all the time, just for our jewishness. sometimes it’s in bigger numbers, but those who hate jews want us dead. they do. and that’s why it’s such a relevant problem, and that’s why i get mad at jew jokes. where there’s a joke about our noses, there’s a joke about ovens, and it’s fucking demonic to joke about the murder of that many human beings. 6 million of us were killed, out of 15 million in total. we only recently caught up to where the population was at prior to the shoah. 

every single ashkenazi jew was affected by the holocaust. we all lost relatives, sometimes entire families. i’m almost entirely german & austrian (and partly polish), and i have very few relatives left in europe. most were killed or came here for refuge and built their lives here. it’s a damn miracle my great grandparents survived the camp they were in, or else i wouldn’t be here. goyim will never know the pain of an incomplete family tree, with dozens of lives missing because they weren’t deemed human enough to be given death certificates. so many of them say “[birth date] to 1942-1944″. because we don’t know. we don’t know when they died, how, where their bodies are. they weren’t treated like humans. we’re not treated like humans, to this day.

even outside of the holocaust itself, and outside nazism; my other family is russian, and they were forced out of their homes (the ending of fiddler of the roof? is based on reality, and happened to my paternal grandfather’s family. they lived in shtetlekh and many died in the pogroms, and eventually were forced to immigrate to america). russians hated jews, too, and murdered us simply because they could. 

and it persists. wherever the stereotypes and conspiracies about us come from, they’re persistently spread. in the decades following the holocaust, antisemitism wasn’t tolerated. anti-jewish hate groups and individuals got the shit beat out of them. but in the last few years, antisemitism has had a sharp incline. after the charlottesville incident, i couldn’t go to shul for weeks out of fear. antisemitism is a scary, unfortunate, inexplicable thing - like all violent bigotry, and even passive or casual bigotry. people don’t comprehend the scale. but it’s terrifying, and real. and you get used to it. it’s fucked up, but you adapt, ‘cause you have to. even if u dont understand why.

tldr: i don’t know. i wish i did, so i could solve it. all i know is we’ve always been hated & murdered, & that hurts. but you get used to it. all u can do i speak against it, i guess.