#but ayitl went way too far in that regard

[rogersstevie]

watching rory's joy at the beginning of her internship at the stanford eagle gazette and later when she worms her way back in during season 6 (which like hey whatever happened to that lol) is why i simply cannot accept a universe where she doesn't have a career in journalism

[chambersofthesea]

hi how are you? question for you, do you still want Jess & Rory to be together despite being pregnant with Logan's child? do you think it's fair that Jess changes his WHOLE life just for Rory's sake?

I think the way people view this as some unfair situation on Jess's end is more concerning than the reality of how it would really be, actually.

Firstly, to view Jess's current life as it is as being one that he changed solely for Rory's sake would be false to begin with. Jess didn't change his life for Rory. Rory as a matter of fact, made it plainly clear that she wouldn't agree to his sudden idea to run away together, and in doing so made it obvious that she won't allow him a place in her life as it was back then because of how unsure she was of his own stability regarding his decisions. And I mean, I can't blame her for that? Jess was flighty then. He was still a teenager who was homeless, didn't have a stable income and apart from Luke, had no one else to rely on when Liz was too busy trying to build a new life for herself with a new husband. And Jess as a result of this and his prior reconciliation with Luke, got to a point where he could decide on what he wanted for himself and his own life, which then led to him being the stable, mature adult we managed to see now. During this entire time, we see him go through several meetups with Rory, but even when their last one in season 6 ends on a tragic note, that doesn't make Jess dive off the deep end and become unstable again. This is because regardless of his feelings for Rory or where they stand, whether it's former exes or good friends, Jess's own life is of his making, and it has nothing to do with what Rory chooses to do with her life. And I'm pretty certain that Jess knows this and that Rory would not want to have his life and stability depend on her. We already saw how this went on with Logan, and frankly it's never a long-term solution if the way you lead your life solely depends on your partner.

Which brings me to my next point: I think that Jess would plainly not care if Rory had Logan's child. A lot of fans' obsession with this is so weird and backwards to me because it feels as though you guys push for some weirdly conservative view of life that these characters must lead, despite both Rory and Jess being children to former teen moms. Neither of them have ever known what it's like to have that "white picket fence" American dream of a home life. This is to say that no, I doubt Jess would consider Rory to be any lesser just because she has a child out of wedlock. I think he'd at most feel concern for her and her state, and maybe have some complicated feelings on the parentage of that kid depending on how Logan is as a parent, but I doubt he'd start preaching to Rory about how wrong she is about choosing what to do with her own body and pregnancy. That's frankly none of his business, and Rory was in her 30s by the time AYITL happens. So no, I don't think it wouldn't be fair for Jess to "change his entire life" for Rory because he plainly wouldn't. If Jess wants to be with Rory who would by then be a single mother and Rory would also want that, who am I to say "this is inexcusable" about two characters that are adults?

And lastly, yes I'd still like for them to be together. Rory and Jess are both adults, I think it's time for fans to start treating them as such and realize that these overly simplistic views of what a character "deserves" or doesn't don't matter when that's not what the character in question WANTS. Frankly, I doubt Jess would ever want to have a regular strategic family with anyone, since the way he grew up is far from what is "socially acceptable".

[lorelaigilmo]

What do you think of AYITL?

Okay so I wrote an entire essay to try and fully examine and explain my exact thoughts and answer this the best I can. It's 2 pages long. I realize that it's... much, so here you'll see the shorter version. If you're interested in the long one, send me another ask.

So basically, I didn't like AYITL. I feel like it disrespected most of the main characters (Or maybe all of them, with the exception of Emily Gilmore). The best way to describe it would be that it felt like a plot ASP wrote for season 8 that she didn't get to play out and decided to do it anyway, with no regards to the fact that 9 years have passed between season 7 and AYITL.

Specific points:

Luke and Lorelai haven't gotten married and haven't had kids because they have the exact same communication issues that broke them up at the end of season 6, if not worse. It's like they haven't lived together for 9 years.

Rory being A Hot Mess. Listen, she went through a lot in the later seasons (season 6A I'm looking at you), But I've come to peace with it because it was just a phase she had to go through and come out of stronger (no I am not referring to the Dean mess in seasons 4/5. We don't talk about that). Her behavior in AYITL is inexusable. Her disrespect towards her job, her boyfriend, her MOTHER. A very important part of this is her pregnancy at the end. The whole point of the show, to me, was that kids don't necessarily become their parents. Lorelai defied her parents and made a life of her own against all odds, and worked her entire life to make sure Rory didn't have to go through the same things. That she would have every opportunity. That she would be a good educated woman who knows what's good for her and won't make the same mistakes as Lorelai did. And then Rory... gets pregnant by accident and is gonna raise the kid on her own. Completely paralleling Lorelai's life. I just... it's not right. Lorelai worked hard, and in the early seasons we see what an amazing job she did. Rory's character deserved better. and so did Lorelai’s

Jess STILL not talking to Rory about his feelings normally. I mean COME ON.

Logan going back to being the careless selfish frat boy and sleeping with Rory even though he's engaged.

A bunch of just really weird stuff?? Like that musical being way too long and Lorelai not being into it (she's into every stupid town thing ever), that scene of Logan "kidnapping" Rory from Stars Hollow that just seriously felt like a never-ending dream sequence, Lorelai and Rory treating those kids at the pool like servants?????

I will give credit to Emily's storyline because it was the best thing that came out of the revival. It's emotional, raw and beautiful. going through losing her husband of so many years, finding out who she is without him, going through truly beautiful character development, while staying true to herself. Loved it.

Also biggest shoutout to Kirk because I mean... he's Kirk.

Honestly you probably think I'm lying telling you this is the short version. I am not. I can go OFF. Anyway if you read this far I'm very impressed. Thanks for asking!

[fayevalcntine]

Folklore anon again! Yes thank you for saying exactly how I feel about pining in the show!! Yes also to everything re Rory not being good enough etc. There are so many contradictions to Rory's character that it's just impossible to really see it as any other than as you said bad writing. Rory has always been a hard worker at anything she does, she even went full on DAR. Her reaction to the LBD I find completely uncharacteristic too! I don't see her still finding that charming ten years later.

Exactly! I find it so baffling how some seem to go back and forth between admitting that AYITL was awful in every aspect including Rory’s writing, and calling Rory these demeaning terms and saying she was always ‘awful’ in the show. Rory is of course a flawed character in the original series, but still a pretty sympathetic one as far as I could tell from it, whereas in AYITL so many of her decisions and behavior make no sense? And if you can admit that characters like Lane or Jess or even Logan of all people weren’t written well or given enough screen time, what exactly is stopping you from admitting that Rory was badly written too? We never even get proper explanations for so many things, like her affair with Logan, her relationship with Paul, why she’s suddenly become this person who doesn’t give a crap about his feelings when they’ve apparently been dating for a while (especially when you think back to Rory’s dating endeavors in Yale and how she was completely honest with Marty regarding her feelings?). Her career seems to be going nowhere though we don’t even understand why she feels directionless and seems to have no motivation or drive whatsoever while working, and the one position she kept mentioning that she was trying to get an interview for (at Conde Nast), she completely botches it because she didn’t even prepare for it? I would’ve been more than happy for the series to explore Rory becoming so aimless and lacking the passion she once had for journalism, because it would’ve been an interesting story to tackle for such a character, who in the series had everything planned out for her life. Instead we have zero clue as to why she behaves the way she does and why she doesn’t even prepare for interviews with highly ranked companies that she’s been waiting on for months. Not to mention the whole Naomi/website interview where she just feels like some incredibly entitled, oblivious person. It made zero sense and it only felt like some form of badly made satire of ‘today’s culture’ or whatever Amy tried to say through Rory, not to mention the 30-something gang in Stars Hollow behaving and being labeled as this incredibly weird group of people who.......still live in the same place they lived before? As if rent/house payments aren’t incredibly expensive nowadays and young adults still live with their parents? The whole show in general just felt a nicely polished but soulless imitation of Gilmore Girls to me, especially when it comes to Rory, Lane and Paris.  The LBD scenes were soooo incredibly dragging and boring, not to mention frustrating because instead of having a couple of college-aged guys making fools of themselves just because they can, you have these idiotic 30-something men destroying public property and acting like they can simply do whatever, including ruining other people’s fun at a dancing club. Rory never had a soft spot for any of Logan’s self-destructive friends, and either found their ‘adventures’ uninteresting or annoying, not to mention the fact that she was the only one to voice her concerns about the same trip that Logan then almost died on. I would’ve chalked up her ‘final goodbye’ to them as her being nice, but honestly the whole part of that episode made zero sense and lacked any fun. Yes it was nicely shot and lit, but I truly have no interest in these men who look like they need to use a moisturizer parading around in gorilla masks. 

[mmecolbert]

Also can we talk about rory cheating on her boyfriend with Logan. In the OS she threw a fit when Logan slept around while they were on a not clearly defined break... Rory would have never been so forgetful about a boyfriend and would have never cheated.

Ehhh, I don’t know. The OS established that Rory is pretty prone tocheating, or at the very least, toeing the grey line. Do you remember thathorrible advice that Lorelai gave Rory after Rory kissed Tristan like a dayafter she and Dean broke up and she was feeling guilty about it and wanted tocome clean to Dean? Lorelai told her that telling Dean would only hurt him. AndRory took that advice straight to heart, because from that moment forward sheeither cheated on, cheated with, or came close to cheating on every guy she waswith. Rory emotionally cheated on Dean with Jess. She also kissed Jess whileshe was with Dean. She didn’t cheat on Jess, but she was definitely showingsome questionable behaviour with Dean when she was dating Jess. Obviously, sheand Dean slept together while he was married. She not only kissed Jess whilewith Logan, but she also started seeing Jess “as a friend” while she was withLogan, behind Logan’s back. So the precedent for her to cheat on her partnerswas there…

The thing that gets me though is that Rory essentially became the worstpossible version of herself in AYITL. As she grew into an adult, it’s as if instead of learning from her mistakes and stop making them, she decided to double downon them. To me it seems that ASP eliminated all of Rory’s good traits and leftonly the bad… For any Community fans out there, I interpret Rory’s AYITL storyas the Darkest Timeline.

In the OS, Rory does cheat—or comes close to it, but we can see whyshe does it and how it can be justified. With Dean, she didn’t really have agood reason to break up with him (especially with Lorelai constantly tellingher how perfect Dean is) and didn’t want to hurt his feelings as she began tocrush on Jess. With Jess, once they were together, she realized that he treatedher far more poorly than Dean did, and she immediately began to pull back toDean. With Dean 2.0, Dean sorta duped her into cheating.

The Logan/Jess issue is interesting to me, because had Logan not comeand interrupted Jess and Rory’s dinner, I wonder how far Rory would have takenher “friendship” with Jess. Because in not telling her boyfriend that she wasseeing her ex while Logan was out of town, Rory had established Jess as her “secret”friend, and seemingly began to repeat her Dean 1.0/Jess emotional cheatingpattern. Her stopping the kiss with Jess and saying that she “can’t even cheat”on Logan like “he did” on her suggests that 1) she only considers sex ascheating 2) she still for some reason believed that Logan had cheated on herand 3) will only refrain from cheating if she’s in love.

We should also remember that Rory never breaks up with the guys she’sdating. Dean always broke up with her. Jess disappeared on her. She and Loganwent on a two month long “break,” during which they broke up through Logan’ssister…. Rory never actually ends relationships. Even in AYITL, it takes two-threeyears, but it’s Paul who breaks up with Rory. The closest Rory ever gets tobreaking up with a guy is when Rory and Logan end their non-relationship, whichthey sorta mutually decide to do.

With that in mind, I’m not surprised that she ended up cheating on Paul.She was not in love with him. I don’t think she even liked him. Why she evenbegan dating him baffles me because in the OS it was clear after she broke upwith Dean to be with Jess, got bored of Dean 2.0, and turned down Marty, thatRory is not interested in “nice guys.” But even if we accept that for somereason she started dating Paul, without a doubt by the time that we see her inAYITL, she cares for him so little that she can’t even remember him. Like withevery other guy, she had no guts or time or who the hell knows what to break upwith him. The ground was therefore fertile for her to cheat.

Why she didn’t feel bad about it though and kept on doing it (WITHLOGAN, WHOM SHE DEFINITELY LOVES) makes zero. fucking. sense. In the OS, Rory’scheating was unintentional and involved a ton of guilt. In AYITL, she’s justdoing it without a second thought. It’s as if between the OS and AYITL, Rory stoppedfeeling guilt? Did she become so self centered that she can no longersympathize or empathize with others? Is she a narcissist who’s totally unawareshe’s hurting others?

The only theory that I have for Rory’s AYITL behaviour is that ASP’s intendedgoal for Rory had always been that Rory was a “good girl,” who learned all thewrong life lessons from the people and environment that raised her. AYITL’sRory only makes any modicum of sense to me, if I look at Gilmore Girls as thestory of Perfect Rory’s Fall from Grace. That is, GG begins with Rory almost asan angelic child, whose character—with time and the environment she’s in—iscorrupted.

As I mentioned before, Lorelai always gave Rory awful advice, and Rorytook it to heart. Lorelai taught Rory at 16 that it’s okay to lie to yourboyfriend so it doesn’t hurt their feelings, so Rory learned to keep info fromthe guys she was dating and never break up with them and conceal her feelings(for other boys). Lorelai kept encouraging Rory’s relationship with Dean (evenwhen Rory was already crushing on Jess), and Rory learned to string men alongwhen she’s no longer interested in them. In being with Chris while he was withSherry, Lorelai set Rory an example that cheating is kinda okay if you want theguy badly enough and don’t like the woman he’s with. Even though Lorelaidressed Rory down for sleeping with Dean when he was married, Lorelai’s fear offracturing her relationship with Rory over it made sure that she never said anegative word to Rory regarding her relationships again. Lorelai also defendedRory to Lindsay’s mother and then supported Rory’s relationship with Dean 2.0,eliminating all of Rory’s guilt over the affair, so Rory learned that cheatingdoesn’t really have consequences for her. Beyond Lorelai, Rory’s grandparentsand all of SH, treated Rory like an angel. In fact, Rory’s is likened to anangel by GG characters throughout the OS. Every character on GG goes out oftheir way to assume the best in Rory, never punish her for her mistakes, andalways believe that whatever Rory did must have been someone else’s fault (fansdo this too, btw). Whenever Rory ends a relationship with a guy or gets intoany trouble, remember that it’s the guy who’s evil in the eyes of SH residents,Lorelai, and the Gilmores. Not Rory.

As a result, Rory became this person who doesn’t realize that she can dowrong. Because everyone in her life will always excuse it. Hell, even in AYITL,Rory comes clean to Lorelai that she’d been cheating on Paul with Logan and theWookie, and Lorelai doesn’t react. Paul breaks up with her and Rory says toLorelai “I can’t believe how I treated him,” and Lorelai just smiles and says like,“that’s okay, he’ll find someone else and you’ll find someone else.” Literallyup until the last four words, Rory never faces the consequences of her bad actions.No one ever confronts her, no one ever calls her out, everyone assumes whatRory’s done isn’t a big deal or is someone else’s fault. Perfect Rory Gilmorecannot be anything other than perfect. Maybe this was fully intentional on ASP’spart?

Rory getting pregnant with Logan’s kid, which would have happened whilehe was (publicly!!!) engaged to Odette and Rory was in a relationship with Paul,I think, maybe is meant to be Rory’s fall from grace. In the same way thatLorelai got pregnant at 16 and became a source of shame and embarrassment toher family and society, the circumstances under which Rory got pregnant are alsomeant to break that pedestal on which everyone had always held Rory. Maybe that’swhat ASP means by the full circle bullshit? In having this kid, maybe Rory—likeLorelai—will always have definitive proof of her mistake, badness, whatever else,which will permanently shift how people view Rory?

I don’t want to delve into the stupidity of the idea of pregnancy andchildren as punishment for women’s wrongs. Nor do I find the idea that onlythrough this “punishment” of having a child does a woman learn to become agood, responsible person. But that’s how I read what ASP was doing, and this ismy current theory for what ASP was intending to do with Rory and the fullcircle mess.

None of it is good. I think it’s really fucking stupid. I don’t agreewith what ASP did to Rory. I don’t think it makes for a compelling story,either. If my theory is correct and this really was what ASP intended, then Idon’t think she did it particularly well, either. On top of it, it’s bleak andcynical and far darker than the tone of GG as a whole, so beyond a bad story,ASP seems to have misread the tone of her own damn show. I repeat: it’s allreally fucking stupid.

[frazzledsoul]

top 10 L/L fics!!

OK, I am going to amend this to my top GG fics overall since @savvyliterate also asked.

I can be pretty picky with fanfiction. I don’t like angst that wasn’t in the show (didn’t ASP give us enough angst for a lifetime?) and I can be really touchy with the way Luke is handled, especially around the time of Partings. I’ve read my share of “well, he deserved it” fics and they really pissed me off. For that same reason, I almost never read fics that were written when the original series was going on. I also can get kind of antsy about fics where Lorelai angsts out about not being married because as we all know after seeing the revival, she went in the opposite direction for a long time. (But hey, how could we know that, right?)

OK, that said, here are my favorites

Holidays and Happenstance by enserio - This is a Lit fic that’s based on the interactions Rory and Jess have at various family happenings between 2007 and the revival. So far there are four sections and we’re up to 2009. I kept trying out Rory-centered fics for a while and couldn’t find any I really liked, so I was really glad to enjoy this one as much as I did. It’s very well done and there is some quality shade thrown at ASP. Though if you already crush on Jess Mariano, the third chapter may put you into overdrive.

Waltzing With Digger by @dollsome-does-tumblr - The crackship you never knew you wanted. Christopher and Digger become a couple and for some reason it works. I think we are all better served if Christopher finds something to occupy his time, anyway.

The Stars Hollow Wi Fi War by @savvyliterate - Finally, Jess’s mysterious comment about Luke not giving him the wi fi password for six months in AYITL is explained! This is a fun fic with lots of townie interaction, plenty of cute L/L moments and excellent use of Jess as a supporting character.

what are you afraid of, making it better? by @dollsome-does-tumblr - This an AU fic where instead of Emily accepting it when Lorelai tells her the wedding isn’t happening in 7.21, she demands to fix things. This was the first AU fic I read and it kind of opened my eyes to the other stuff that was out there, since I usually prefer stuff that doesn’t stray too far outside of canon. This really was an improvement on the utter crapfest the show forced on us, and it’s 100% what should have happened instead of what we got. Plus, Anna Nardini and Emily have a bitch-off that is simply glorious.

Reconciling by HandfulofBarbie - There are a ton of fics out there where Luke and Lorelai talk out the issues regarding April and Christopher that led to their break-up, finally come to peace with it, and get married and have babies approximately 5 minutes later. This is by far the best of them, and it does make me a little wistful things didn’t exactly work out this way.

Seven Weeks by mags68 - This fic has almost mythical status in the fanfiction world, and it deserves it! It stays fairly close to canon, with the slight caveat that Luke and Lorelai did end up seeing plenty of each other while he was stuck in Maine. High quality smut here.

The Heart So Hollow by @savvyliterate - This is an AU where Luke’s never opens because Luke is a hotshot baseball player instead. He hires Lorelai to keep Taylor’s grubby paws off of his dad’s hardware store (thus financing Rory’s Chilton tuition) and much bickering and flirting ensues. It’s very fun and luckily he’s still a down home culinary god, so we’ll see what happens.

I Will Always Love You and Thanks for Christmas by @meags09 - These are my favorites in a series of song fics that take place at various points in the series. Thanks For Christmas is the best Luke centric fic I think I’ve ever read, especially since it takes place during the much-undervalued Forgiveness and Stuff.

Lorelai In Wonderland by @meags09 - Lorelai wakes up mid season 5 with no memory of the last two years. Cute twist at the end, and Luke is definitely swoon-worthy in this one.

I Know We Only Get Better by Valhalla and The First Nine Years Of Marriage (Before Marriage) by Bimadabomi - These two fics are a series of one-shots that try to fill in the gaps in the L/L relationship between the series finale and the revival. I think they both do an excellent job of laying out why exactly their relationship developed the way that it did.

Good At Dating and Defining All In aren’t included in here because I haven’t finished them. Maybe they eventually will be.

Fics that have not yet been written but maybe need to be:

I’d kind of like a fic that goes into detail on the April/Christopher stuff that so derailed L/L during the original series and yet still has them deciding on the relationship status that was established in the revival. I’d like something a little different than the immediate marriage-and-kids resolution that we know now didn’t happen.

I’d also like a fic in the speculation based on this thread that the real reason Jess and Rory hadn’t seen each other in the four years before AYITL is because something sexual happened between them. Make it happen, people. Bonus points if Lorelai makes Deliverance jokes.