#but the fallout would require a lot of my rambling too lol

[muzzleroars]

Are we just gonna ignore the ticking time bomb which is the truth about Lucifer's fall (eventually) coming out? What would or why would it happen? Or would Uriel and the other old angels take that one to the grave?

lucifer's fall is a now complicated narrative - anything written in uriel's books on the matter is obviously false, fabricated as god directed him to do so, but the memories of the angels from that time have been repeatedly put into question, making it difficult for even those directly involved in the war to now say what happened in those days. compounding this is the simple fact that god is seen as infallible and so, therefor, as the end authority on what the truth really is. uriel doesn't have access to thoughts, but god does. to this end, if god tells them all the lucifer had designs to take over his throne, that he was scheming, jealous, wicked, it must be so. lucifer's words, his public stance against god, were nothing more than lip service - he is the father of lies and used deception to his ends. at first, it's difficult for those who knew him to believe even if god's word must be so. yet, as time goes on, as they forget lucifer, as they forget his boundless love and his endless passion, they begin to accept it, believe in it, and ultimately hold it as gospel. because of their closeness, the archangels do hold private reservations, with michael's being the worst and resulting in the manifestation of his dogmatic adherence to god, but otherwise...it is widely accepted and adopted as true, even for those who were a part of the war. unfortunately, hell has access to the testaments.

now the testaments. aren't that important to v1. the history of this place isn't of particular interest to it and it largely puts them out of its mind after quickly reading and filing them away. however, gabriel will ultimately have to reach a true point of reckoning and deconstruction of his faith - he has reflected on god's world and its falsehoods, in his fall he has reveled for a time in rebelling against it and everything he was under it, but once the turbulence slows, he needs to actually confront himself as an angel that has lost its faith in god. and i think during that time, with all its suffering, its hate, its grief, v1 directs him toward the testaments it nearly threw in its trash bin. he deserves to see the truth as god himself wrote it rather than be an abandoned child left guessing. and while they hold a myriad of hard truths for gabriel to process, the truth of lucifer is devastating. he questioned the existence of hell, he questioned the validity of its purpose, and for that he was cast out. because god didn't have an answer. when gabriel sifts through the haze of eons, digs under the story as told by god, pushes past the severe punishments they all endured under the guise of rooting out any more like lucifer (used, in no small part, to make them all hate him, to make it seem as though their agony was caused by lucifer instead of god), he can remember him in parts. it's so hard to undo the damage done, all the deception, punishments, and threats god used to make them all weapons against lucifer, but now as a fallen angel, gabriel is faithless just enough to find his way to his own real memories.

they aren't strong. they barely cling to the corners of his mind after so much battering. but he remembers what it felt like in lucifer's presence, the warmth and jubilation of his experience. he radiated love and his words poured forth that love, his brilliance shared with all that joined to him. the pieces are broken, but i think this, paired with working up his courage to actually seek lucifer out and seeing his fate, would set gabriel on a campaign to finally pull his memory out of the shit god callously cast it into and force heaven to really see who they still cleave to. he deserves that much, though he may be now warped beyond recognition like so many of the angels that fell with him. and while he can do little to fight for this directly, his main goal is to make his siblings see what he does. they will all be VERY resistant to his attempts, but it would likely be uriel who is the first to admit to falsehoods in this narrative - he's written enough edited content to know god directed him to lie in his histories, so he accepts it the easiest. the other two prove much more difficult - raphael wants little to do with the conversation and michael is incredibly volatile at the idea. and gabriel knows why. he understands it. raphael is kind, he is so gentle-hearted the truth is too terrible to swallow - and, selfishly, he wants peace and harmony. this would disrupt the comfort he and all of heaven has left, and his main directive is always, always to make things comfortable. michael is just as obvious, he has combated this in his own soul for all this time, tearing apart from the inside out over the idea that lucifer may not have deserved his awful punishment and how holding that belief made him some kind of apostate in his own mind. so any mention of it sends him into a rage, proclaiming his hatred for lucifer and condemning gabriel's own hell-twisted mind for contorting the truth so.

the only way they could be convinced is to read the testaments for themselves and be sure it is god's word (hard to deny i think, as i hc they are written in the language of heaven which nothing in hell can reproduce...and v1 must actually interpret it for gabriel, as the words burn his eyes and nauseate him, so could come from no infernal source) raphael recoils from it, retreating into prayer as though that could change the words in front of him. uriel is....resigned yet ashamed, like he always knew this to be true and feels his hand in perpetuating it for all this time. but in reality, michael's determination is the most important - he is still the prince of heaven regardless of his current state, and so is now their highest authority. and he sees the words. he sees himself. he sees all this has come to, the kingdom of god as the banner he carried and his broken little family gathered around him. in spite of themselves, they want him to say something. but god's word is his word. he reads it for what it is and michael, always so legal, always so literal, can interpret it only one way. he grasps at his scripture, yet the closest crime worthy of hell he can attribute it to, accusing the work of the holy spirit to be evil, hardly fits. he would be twisting canon's meaning and lucifer's words, as he only questioned. he just asked. it could be a sin to ask...but never a sin that couldn't be repented. the more he thinks on it in measured silence, the more he knows he's inserting ambiguity where there is none. god transposed his guilt onto lucifer, knowing it was wrong. and michael can't go against the word of god.

he will determine with raphael and uriel how best to tell heaven. and he will finally undo his chains

[bthump]

Thx 4 your compelling answer! You made me curious about what do you think Guts and Griffith would be like as a couple, how do you imagine their dynamic would develop and grow. Not super chill I agree lmao but it's very interesting given their respective baggages. And kind of unrelated but I was soo mad that Casca insisted Guts to leave the 2nd time even when Guts was like: HEY I WANNA STAY FOR REAL. But Griffith never knew that. Hurts but that's the kind of element that makes for a great tragedy

ikr! Man that scene where Griffith overhears them is so painful. Like it makes sense that Casca would tell Guts to leave imo for a few reasons (mainly because Guts successfully convinced her after they had sex that it was what he ~really truly wanted~ lol, and also I think there’s some interesting selfishness on her part there too) but man, it’s tragic.

Anyway back at you, thanks for the interesting questions. lol idk where to start with this one really because like, there’s so much to potentially say, and so many potential ways for their relationship to go, like I don’t really have One True Concept of their relationship, there are so many possibilities and options.

Holy shit this got ridiculously long lol, sorry. I just used the opportunity to throw out like as many of my griffguts opinions as I could reasonably fit lmao.

I guess there are a few things that I tend to stick to when I’m imagining them together in like a Golden Age AU where everything worked out, tho ofc none of this is set in stone.

Like, if this is an AU without the whole overheard Promrose Hall speech that changes everything, I tend to think Guts is more likely to make the first move. Like say Guts didn’t hear the speech but still fell off the cliff with Casca and got her monologue, and without his feelings of inadequacy clouding his understanding he actually starts to get it, like, I pretty much think Guts would’ve kissed him during Tombstone of Flame 2. Griffith being openly afraid of Guts’ judgement -> Guts impulsively demonstrating exactly how he really feels about him.

But also just in general I think Guts is more likely to act on his feelings without thinking about potential consequences or how it could’ve gone wrong until afterwards, so I can imagine a lot of scenarios where he’d make the first move. Whereas even if Griffith did figure out how he feels and what he wants, it’s harder for me to see him going for it. On the one hand yeah he does have that “I must obtain what I desire” attitude, on the other hand what he wants is for Guts to love and want him, and he’d know that, and he’d know that kissing Guts is not necessarily going to get him that, and might end up ruining everything he does have.

Like, dude has a major fear of rejection.

But I guess I could see him also impulsively going for it in a more extreme moment - like the way his mind shuts off and he runs to save Guts from Zodd, I could imagine a thank god you’re alive type kiss, eg. But imo he’d need more of a push than Guts would.

And yeah I think both of their respective traumas would affect things, but I’d prefer to delay that a bit? I want them to have a good positive sexual encounter before they start sorting through all their issues together, basically so they have proof that it’s worth persisting lol, and I think that’s pretty easy to manage. Like, they start making out and end up jerking each other off and no one has any flashbacks, easy peasy.

I could see them getting past a bad first time, but it wouldn’t be easy lol. Like first off they’re both overly likely to take it as a personal condemnation, even if logically that’s not how trauma works, because they both hate themselves, and they both canonically have a fear of being monstrous/predatory. Griffith asking if Guts thinks he’s cruel and tbqh most of his speech to the King in the dungeon is indicative of this imo, and Guts seeing himself as a monster after killing Adonis and also in canon flashbacking from his rapist’s perspective.

And yk, if they do start having sex without immediate issues, I imagine the first problem that would come up sooner rather than later would be Guts flashbacking. I tend to assume he would be upfront about not wanting to get fucked without saying why, and Griffith would be fine with that, and then Guts would still eventually have a flashback while topping and it would take him by surprise like in canon. I could see Guts reacting basically the exact same way he did with Casca, rambly confessional and all, and I think Griffith would be supportive and comforting and understanding in the immediate aftermath. Hopefully Guts would make it very clear that it had nothing to do with anything Griffith did or anything about him and he still wants to get laid on the regular, because otherwise I could see something stupid happening afterwards like Griffith withdrawing out of fear of his potential to Guts and Guts blaming himself for making things weird and neither of them talking about it until something gives.

Anyway if they do successfully navigate that, the next problem would be more insidious, and it would be Griffith, and the way he views sex as transactional. Like when I say Griffith would be fine with never topping, I think that holds true entirely regardless of what Griffith might actually want personally from a sexual encounter. He’d let Guts fuck him even if he hated it, because what he wants is the emotional closeness and Guts needing him and wanting him. I think he actually would want sex with Guts for its own sake and enjoy it, like he’s attracted to Guts and he wants him and I def don’t think he would hate it in any way. Buuut I see him as very detached from his own physical desires, yk? Dude has never had sex because he wanted to have sex, even the evil personification of his inner darkness didn’t lol.

And along with that you could have the additional problem of enjoying sex with a man being another potential source of self-loathing for him. I’m thinking because of ‘am I dirty?” in the river, and again the scene in the dungeon w/ the King lends itself to this really well too. Like it’s so easy to read internalized homophobia into his narrative imo, even the entire structure of it, with Charlotte and the dream on one side and Guts on the other.

And basically I think those issues would combine to make him see sex as something he gives in return for Guts’ love/loyalty/presence, and avoid seeing it as something he personally wants. So like basically I think in a way he’d use that transactional framework as a justification for doing something he really really wants to do (sex with Guts) but that he doesn’t want to acknowledge he wants because it makes him hate himself because a) internalized homophobia and also b) deep down he knows he wants Guts more than the dream which also makes him feel guilty.

Also like, when it comes to Griffith and his issues I don’t think any of this is required, like canonically we know Guts’ csa trauma affects him but we don’t really know how Griffith’s csa trauma affects him. I wouldn’t see it as out of character if he was ultimately fine with his desire for Guts and doesn’t contribute any issues to the griffguts sex life. But it’s really really easy to see how he could have a metric ton of issues with sex to work through, and I think those would be really interesting to explore, basically.

Plus I don’t necessarily think this would actually… matter? Like I could easily see Griffith never giving Guts any cause for concern, they never talk about this, Griffith himself barely notices that he’s got a messed up attitude towards sex, and eventually he just internally works through it himself as his relationship with Guts progresses and he gets more comfortable with wanting Guts and wanting sex for its own sake and he achieves his dream regardless of his emotional priorities, etc. Like this could all easily work itself out in Griffith’s subconscious without any external drama lol. (Tho if Guts ever picked up on this it would def fuck him up and the fallout would be big.)

ANYWAY so that’s all the trauma stuff I could see influencing their relationship.

Overall I think there’d be way more good than bad. They’re perfect for each other. Griffith wants Guts to know him and see all the stuff he hates about himself and want him anyway, and Guts would absolutely do that, and demonstrate it thoroughly, and it would do wonders for Griffith’s self-acceptance. Guts wants Griffith to pay attention to him, to love him and respect him and look at him, and being in a relationship with him would give him everything he wants. The way Griffith looks at him after they kiss or while they’re fucking or whatever, like he’s the only thing in the world, would be the highlight of Guts’ life. Guts fucking Griffith like he needs him, or making love to him with reverence, or demonstrating casual closeness and affection, would be the highlight of Griffith’s.

I think Charlotte and the dream would be a bit of an issue for Guts, like I could see him being jealous, but I could also see him being totally able to see Charlotte as business and himself as the person Griffith wants. The fact that they’re fucking behind Charlotte’s back would itself be probably enough proof of how much Griffith wants him and is willing to risk for him to make Guts feel secure. Like basically I could see jealous insecure Guts telling Griffith they should break it off because the risk to his dream is too much and Griffith refusing out of hand, and that being a big moment for Guts and his feelings of security in their relationship.

Eventually I think the most satisfying direction their relationship could go would be Griffith decisively choosing Guts over the dream and having grown enough in their years together that he’s able to live with that choice and be happy with Guts instead of a big exaggerated dream lol. As far as I’m concerned that’s the secret Berserk happy ending that they never got a chance to get to, but is wholly telegraphed by the story as something that could’ve happened if everything hadn’t gone wrong.

Hmm what else. Random details I guess: I think they’d start out with Guts exclusively topping when they have penetrative sex but Guts would absolutely eventually want Griffith to fuck him imo, and their first time switching it up would be pretty emotionally intense but extremely good and positive. They’d be really close and trusting and more effectively communicative by then, and it would work great and Guts would bask in the attention as Griffith v thoroughly makes love to him.

Also when Griffith achieves his dream and runs Midland they would both be extremely into Guts getting a little possessive and staking his claim on him, like by fucking him hard enough that he can feel it throughout the next day, or scratches/bruises under clothes, etc. Nothing super kinky, I think they’re both pretty vanilla lol, but Guts would love knowing Griffith is being constantly reminded of him while he’s at meetings with nobles or w/e and Griffith would love that lingering reminder.

I think at some point early on they’d have to have a talk in which Guts asserts that he wants to stay with Griffith and the Hawks and doesn’t feel obligated because he lost a fight when they were 15. I could see that thought eating away at Griffith for a while if they don’t. Also because the question of whether they’re equals or not is kind of hammered in in canon I think they’d have to navigate around Griffith technically being Guts’ commander. I don’t think Guts would think twice about it (again assuming he hasn’t heard the Promrose Hall speech) but Griffith would worry, especially given exchanges like “that’s why I’m asking you to do this” “just order me to do it” lol. So they’d have to at least talk about that.

Or conversely they could not talk about Guts potentially feeling obligated and it could blow up in their faces and lead to miscommunication drama. I mean there are so many potential ways they could fuck things up by not talking and assuming the worst at the first sign of an issue lmao, it’s like, you want relationship drama just take your pick.

Also relatedly, I think this is a little bit of an unpopular opinion, at least judging by most of the griffguts fic I’ve read lol, but I really don’t see Griffith as likely to behave possessively at all, unless he thinks Guts is about to leave him and is like next to having a breakdown about it, and even then… idk. I think the second duel was extremely atypical - Griffith defaulted to trying to fight Guts for his loyalty because that’s how he won his loyalty the first time and it was the only way Griffith saw to keep his loyalty, he was extremely out of his depth emotionally lol, and I think there’s some big indications that he hated himself for it afterwards.

He wants Guts to want him, to choose to be with him of his own desire, he wants Guts to love him. I think he would abhor the thought that Guts was obligated to stay with him in any way, and any indications of that would freak him out and add to his self loathing. So he wouldn’t tell Guts “you’re mine” as part of sexy foreplay or whatever, and he wouldn’t order him to do shit lol (along with this like I don’t think Griff is dominant at all, and trying to be with someone he loves would fuck him up).

I think the biggest problem for both of them would be a tendency to assume the worst and just blame themselves for whatever instead of talking. But I also think the longer they’re in a relationship the better they’ll get at not doing that and at constructive positive communication lol.

Like at the end of the day again I think there’d be way more positives than negatives. We’re shown how perfectly they fulfill each others’ needs. Guts wants attention, Griffith wants acceptance, they both want to be loved, and before the misunderstandings get in the way and fuck it all up their relationship benefits both and starts helping both heal emotionally. If they stayed together and added romance and sex to the mix I think overall they’d be pretty ideal partners.

Ooookay I think I’ve talked more than enough about this lmao. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to just ramble for ages about a bunch of griffguts stuff. Honestly if anyone reads through this to the end I’ll be slightly surprised lol.

[lostinthewinterwood]

RBC Exchange 2020

Hey friend!

Thanks for writing for me for this exchange :D

I’ve got a bunch of prompts below the cut, as well as a general DNW list and general likes list, but feel free to go wherever your muse leads you as long as you don’t hit the DNWs—optional details are optional, after all.

I only asked for fic; I wouldn’t know how to set up an art request at all, to be honest, but if you’re inspired by my ramblings to do visual art I’d be happy to get any sort of art treats!

My last prompt contains spoilers for Vanguard chapter 16; tumblr doesn’t allow me to put in multiple cuts or I’d hide it under one of them, so if you don’t want to see it don’t scroll past where I’ve said “Recent Vanguard Spoilers Past This Point”.

None of my other exchange letters have RBC stuff, but there’s other ramblings about my general likes and I talk about Tortall as well as canon HP a little, if you want to check out my tag for them here.

The prompts vary in length, but don’t worry if you matched on a shorter one—I’m interested in all of them, there’s a reason I asked for what I’ve asked for!

Thank you for writing for me for this exchange!  I’m super excited to see what you come up with for me in it.

General DNW

Rape/non/dub-con; non-canonical major character death; smut/graphic sex scenes; heavy angst; hurt no comfort; graphic depictions of deliberate and methodical self-harm*; graphic depictions of suicide; gore; grimdark; complete downer endings; character bashing; incest; cringe comedy; a/b/o; mpreg; mundane AUs; graphic eye trauma; graphic and/or permanent hand trauma; issuefic; a focus on romance; trans or nonbinary Harry; anything at all to do with blink or counterpoint.

*I don’t include things like, say, punching a wall in a fit of emotion under this, even if it does result in an injury. however, something like cutting would not be appreciated.

 General Likes

-- I really like plotty fics

-- I’m a total sucker for ruse reveals, whether on the small or grand scale (I say, eyeing my own series, which I started writing because I couldn’t stand the waiting lmao)

-- Ridiculous amping up of the secret identity drama, and possibly adding in more layers of secrets and irony, is always good

-- I’d be super down for crossovers with Tortall and/or HP canon, whether just in characters or plot beats or in full

-- Time travel and time loops, especially as a fix-it—especially if we let the characters learn a little more than they currently know, and then toss them back in time.  I have a general preference for Peggy Sue style (aka, an older character getting put back in their younger body at an earlier point in the timeline) over the character’s physical body stepping back in time, but either one is good.

-- A focus on family and/or friendship, especially characters realizing they’re not nearly as alone as they think they are, and just generally characters who like each other and enjoy spending time together

-- Character studies

 In general feel free to include unrequested characters, if that’s what your story wants—my requested characters are ones I want to be the focus of the story, not necessarily the Only Characters.

 Prompts that could be either main RBC or Rev Arc, or the two blended together:

Harriet Potter | Rigel Black

There’s a lot of stuff you could go with here, of course.  If you’re just interested in RBC, and aren’t interested in any kind of AU, I’d like maybe something with her family, including Sirius and Remus and Archie in the category of “family” of course, or with her friends, or maybe something about learning to do her animagus transformation herself.

If you’re feeling more like an AU, though, I’ve got some other ideas hah.

-- Some flavor of Mother of Learning au, probably feat. Harry as Controller, with Tortall’s gods taking the place of the angels maybe, smashing together as many rbc, Tortall, and MoL elements/characters as you want, feel free to go absolutely wild here.

-- What’s she doing, during rev arc, having run off to go gallivanting across the world? Alternately—her parents track her down, and we get to see that reunion and dealing with the fallout from her ruse.

-- Convent au, aka she and Archie never switch and she goes off to AIM; this can be the AIM of rev arc or an AIM of your own creation based on RBC canon!

-- Genderbent AU, aka Harry’s a boy and Archie’s a girl but they still go for the switch.

-- If you know Fialleril’s Tatooine Slave Culture stuff you’re probably familiar with the motif of Ekkreth becoming a bird and flying away when his trickstering is over for the time being; if you worked that into a fic with Harry I’d love you forever for it lol.

 Arcturus “Archie” Black

We don’t get a whole lot of Archie in canon, so I’m down for more exploration of him, either through the canon lens or through the lens of rev arc.

If you want to go down the path of rendering Archie into a more Thom-like figure, either by power level or by his relation to the rest of the world, I’d be down for that, but please don’t take him in the direction blink did (aka, please do not give me depressed suicidal Archie).

Things I think would be cool:

-- Slice-of-life with Archie at AIM, especially if it’s not the AIM of rev arc, but either way works.

-- Palace au, aka he and Harry never switch and he’s got to go to Hogwarts, and what happens from there.

-- Genderbent AU, aka Archie’s a girl and Harry’s a boy and they still switch places.

-- For whatever reason, he needs to go to Hogwarts and pretend to be Rigel for an extended period of time; dramedy ensues.

-- Leaning hard into the Mother of Learning AU idea, and making him the Zorian to Harry’s Zach, less powerful but learning to work with what he’s got.

 Adriana “Addy” Potter

For this one I’d really like a future fic with a family focus; Addy and her family, once Addy’s old enough to participate properly in things.  What’s the world like for a noble half-blood girl more than a decade younger than Harry?  Do they live in Wizarding Britain, or have they moved elsewhere?  How has the fallout of the ruse’s inevitable revelation impacted her—if, indeed, it noticeably has?  Rev Arc and canon basis are both fine!

 Severus Snape

He’s such a great character I love him, also, like, I’d adore something that brought him closer to Myles’ role as the spymaster/character who goes “girl what girl all I see is a smallish boy who’s just what he appears to be, why do you ask”

Other explorations of The Life And Times Of Severus Snape, Halfblood Potions Master And SOW Party Member would be great too.

Rev Arc and canon are both fine!

 Ginny Weasley, Bill “Will” Weasley

Would love some youngest sib-oldest sib bonding!!  Also would love exploring Bill in the Lower Alleys, and Ginny learning about that part of his world.

IIRC we first see Bill in the Alleys in FF?  So if you go with rev arc I’d appreciate that being kept in, but assuming that much, rev arc and canon are both fine.

  Rev Arc prompts:

Neal Queenscove, Graeme Queenscove, Jessa Queenscove, Will Queenscove

Hey, the Queenscove siblings get to be not 50% dead in this story!  I’d love to see something lighthearted with them all together.

Also feel free to bring in their parents, but it’s definitely not required lol.

 Harriet Potter | Rigel Black, Aldon Rosier, Justice (Revolutionary Arc)

Obviously there’s more than one way to get to this character combo, but I was thinking something like this:

Aldon Blake is raised by his birth mother and schooled in America.  Harriett Potter can’t break through Dumbledore’s wards alone.  And so a law is challenged.

 Lily Evans Potter

Anything through her life would be great!  Key moments I’d be especially interested in include her discovering her magic and having to go abroad to school, her time at AIM (maybe being Exceptional for stupidly powerful wild magic?), her time in the Triwizard Tournament (which I’m big into, not that that should discourage you from writing something else), returning to Britain, her relationship to the British International Association (assuming I got that name right), her reaction to Harry’s reveal and her hunt for her elder daughter.  Some of these wouldn’t have to have a heavy rev arc influence, but I’m currently more interested in the universe/story set up in rev arc.

 Keladry Mindelan

Look at this point I’m this close to just straight-up asking for a crossover, I love Kel and I’d love to have more of her in the world of rev arc.  I’d love her getting involved in Britain’s issues, whether through Neal or otherwise; she’s got no reason to be personally invested but she is the protector of the small, after all, and I can’t imagine she likes the way they run their country even before the end of Vanguard, which I’d imagine would only make it worse.

 Recent Vanguard Spoilers Past This Point

    Aldon Rosier, Sirius Black

I would adore something with the Lords Rosier and Black, and awkward formality, and Comedy™ which I suspect there may be little of in CC (it is a war after all), so I’ll take what I can get lmao.  Obviously there’s no way around what happened to give Aldon the title, but I’d rather neither that nor the war be a focal point; I’m more interested in dumbass shenanigans for this.