#don't worry they'll get there

[radioactivepeasant]

Snippet Tuesday: Blackmail au

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If he had to answer one more question, Jak was going to punch someone in the throat.

He sat in the same alcove, still out of reach, and glowered at the supposed king from under a curtain of tangles as the interrogation began again.

"What's your name?"

"You already know my name."

"How old are you?"

"Don't know, don't care."

"Do you have any brothers or sisters?"

"You can't have him."

"Do you know your father's name?"

"No."

"What's your mother's name?"

"Don't know. Never met her."

"Are you going to come out?"

"No?? I don't know you people!"

"Where is Mar?"

"#$^ off."

"I'm asking nicely, boy. Where. Is. Your brother."

"....go away. Let me go."

And so it went, around in circles again and again. The man they called Damas was getting more and more upset, Jak understood that on some level. But he was past caring. If Krew had told the truth, this was a coward. Someone who had abandoned either him or Mar. Jak didn't owe him anything.

"You may not care about the child-" Damas began, frustrated, and Jak snapped.

"I don't care? I'm not the one who ditched him when Praxis took over!" Jak scrambled out of the alcove and planted both hands in the center of Damas’s chest, shoving him back. “I don't eat so he won't starve! I stay up all night to make sure those idiots don't send him to look for artifacts if they think I'm "busy"! Don't you ever tell me I don't care about him!"

Jak balled up his fists, chest heaving.

Too late he realized he'd played right into their hands.

The man who allegedly sired Jak didn't retaliate after being shoved. Instead, he held up a hand to forestall the reactions of the other Wastelanders, who had been about to intervene. There was something new in his eyes when he looked at Jak now. An understanding Jak didn't share.

"You care about Mar," he said pointedly. Was that gratitude in his voice? Why?

Daxter squirreled out of the alcove and up Jak’s back, baring sharp little teeth.

"No kidding? What part of “he starves himself for Junior's sake” didn't you understand?! You guys got a lot of nerve, kidnapping us and then acting like it's our fault that left Junior without his favorite role model and Jak!"

Damas kept his eyes on Jak’s. "If you had the opportunity to free him from Haven, would you take it? Would you give up his location to people who could save him?"

Defiantly, Jak raised his chin. "And give him to you, you mean? Nah, man. You only get one chance when I get my brother back. If the dog doesn't like you, you're done. I take the kid and we disappear. No one chains us ever again."

Consternation, anger, fear and grief each flickered across Damas’s face in turn -- and across Sig’s. But Jak held firm. Just because Mar was stolen didn't mean this horned king had been a good father before. For all he knew, the guy was just another Praxis!

"Uh. Pal? I don't think you were supposed to say that part out loud," Daxter whispered in his ear.

Sig set his jaw, mouth in a thin, hard, line. "Kid," he said softly, "You don't know the first thing about Damas."

"No," Jak retorted, "I don't. So why would I trust him with something this important?"

Damas turned away. In long, stiff, strides he marched into the antechamber he'd sequestered himself in before. Before sealing the door behind him, he made a vague gesture.

"Sig. Please."

The boys didn't have to wait long to find out what he meant. Sig caught Jak by the scruff of the neck and rather firmly "encouraged" him to follow the Wasteland leader. It did not escape their notice that Sig leaned against the door once it closed, blocking off their escape.

Inside the circular room, benches lined the walls around a brazier and altar. Damas sat on one of these benches and ran his hands over his face.

"I understand your anger," he said dully, "and I do not fault you for it. But I need you to know, here and now, that I did not abandon you. Either of you. You were taken from me."

Daxter reached down and squeezed Jak's shoulder when he noticed him tensing up. "S'ok, Jak," he whispered, "We're stuck here, so we might as well hear him out, right? What if he's tellin' the truth? What if this was just the most half-baked rescue in history?"

Damas twitched as though he'd heard him.

"I would rather the circumstances of your departure had been less...traumatic. But the truth is that I told Kleiver to get you out of that city by any means necessary."

He glanced up.

"I've only known your name for three weeks. Until the ransom message arrived, I believed that you had perished with your mother and other supporters of the House of Mar.”

Jak folded his arms and remained standing. "Ransom again. You can say that word as much as you want, doesn't mean I know what you're talking about."

That got a raised eyebrow and a quick glance at Sig. Sig cringed and shrugged. Damas nodded and took a slow, deep, breath. He seemed to exhale much of his anger with it.

"Almost a month ago," he said quietly, "Krew sent a message to one of my outposts. He said that a young boy, allegedly of my bloodline, had fallen into his "care". And that- that if I did not provide him with a certain "finders fee", as he put it, he would hand the boy -- hand you over to Praxis. I didn't trust him not to take the money and turn you in anyway. Sent Kleiver to make sure everything was on the level."

Jak’s fingers dug into his arms. "I- I don't know you," he argued, "and you don't know me! Why would you do that? What if that computer had said something else?"

Damas shrugged. "Didn't plan that far ahead. I knew it could have been a fool's hope, but how could I risk ignoring it? There aren't that many channelers who can survive dark eco out there. Even fewer who look that much like me. After seeing your face, the blood test was more formality than anything."

"Damas..."

Sig’s voice was soft. Almost wounded.

"I couldn't tell you, Sig." Damas frowned down at his hands. "I promised you- I promised I wouldn't do anything to jeopardize your cover. I would never risk tipping Krew off. You know that."

"For something this important?" Sig demanded, a catch in his throat. “You couldn’t even drop me a message, “Hey, I think Baby Heart might have survived” so I could be ready for something like this?”

"Uh...so...you guys clearly know each other?" Daxter asked uncomfortably, glancing between Sig and Damas.

Damas sat with his fingers steepled against his forehead and didn't answer. Sig only nodded slowly. After an extremely awkward silence, Damas looked up at Jak again.

"You didn't know your mother, you said."

"Nope."

Jak wondered idly if there was a prize for the most uncomfortable conversations ever had. This definitely topped the poor old guy in the cell beside his who had to tell him where babies came from.

"Were- were you in Haven the whole time?" Damas swallowed hard. "How is it that you were only just now discovered?"

Jak’s eyes hardened like chips of granite. "I was free," he said, short and clipped. "We were free. Coastal kids, no walls, no fences. Raised to be a rottin' secret weapon for the sage. He knew what was beyond that transport ring and he just let me walk into a trap. I think-”

He clenched his fists until his nails dug into the skin. “I think he needed me to be old enough to survive Praxis's super-soldier experiments."

Damas clenched own his fists until his knuckles turned white, and Sig cursed violently behind them.

"How old?" Sig demanded. When Jak didn't answer, he repeated himself. "How old were you, Jak?"

It was Daxter who answered on his behalf. "Ei- either thirteen or fourteen. We were never sure, we just know his voice finally broke."

Sig slammed his fist into the stone door and tipped his head back, cursing the Underground, the Baron, and the entire lineage of Praxis in obscene terms.

"I'm sorry." Damas couldn't look at Jak. "Gods, I'm- I'm sorry, boy. If I’d known-!”

He covered his eyes a moment.

“I never got a chance to speak to any of the people I cared about the night of the mutiny. They dragged me out of the city and flew me out to the desert in the middle of the night. I was supposed to die within two days."

He ran a hand across his throat as if remembering an old thirst.

"Praxis bragged that he had "ended my line". He wanted me to think he'd killed you and your mother."

“You’re…really sure I’m this “Baby Heart” person, aren’t you.” Jak frowned.

“There is not a single doubt in my mind.” Damas dragged his fingers down his face and peered out over them. “If I could have gotten back into the city-!”

"They threw you away too, huh?" Jak asked bitterly.

"Runs in the family, it would seem," answered Damas.

He rubbed his chin wearily and leaned back against the wall.

"I know you have only my word to go by when I tell you I would die before letting myself be anything like Praxis-"

"Just your word?" Sig interjected with a very sharp tone.

Damas winced. "You're already upset with me, I didn't want to presume-"

"No, you didn't want to communicate like an adult again." Sig rolled his eye. "If you’d just talked to your partner, I could’ve prevented Jak from flipping out from the beginning. You keep doubling down and I'm not gonna dig you out of the hole you get yourself into next time."

“You told me not to blow your cover while you searched for Mar!”

“I said don’t blow my cover unless it’s an emergency!” Sig made a frustrated wave in Jak’s direction. “I’m pretty sure this counts as an emergency, Daym.”

Daxter snickered, and even Jak had to hide a quick grin at the thoroughly chastised look on the king’s face.

"Love the drama for you, Sig baby," Daxter drawled, "but little ears are present, can you not?"

He pointed to himself.

"It's me. My ears are little. Please stop scarring my mind."

Jak studied Sig’s annoyed posture for a few seconds before turning to him.

"You really trust this guy?"

"With my life, boneheaded though he is," Sig replied immediately, "More importantly, I trust him with yours."

Finally, Jak sank down to sit on one of the other benches. "...Okay, why are you really in Haven?" he asked Sig.

The big man frowned. "I'm...I'm looking for Mar, cherry. Damas was searching this continent, and I was searching the mainland. That was the plan. Playing bodyguard to Krew means I get access to every rumor in the whole godforsaken city."

"So you were actually looking for him? He wasn't forgotten?"

A trickle of guilt squirmed through Jak's ribs. He glanced over at Damas, then away.

"I...uh. Sorry."

"Only a fool would hold it against you, given the circumstances," Damas sighed. As if thinking of Jak's prior outburst, he pursed his lips and asked, "When did you last eat, boy?"

The slightly blank look in Jak’s eyes answered the question a little too well.

"Like...eat what? Anything?"

Jak shrugged and tried to sound tough. "Stole a roll yesterday. And some fruit."

Four grapes, to be precise. Half of them had gone to Daxter, half of them had gone to Mar. And a third of the roll had gone to the puppy.

"And that was yesterday?"

Something suspicious glinted in Damas’s eyes, reflected in Sig’s.

"How much of that did you eat?"

The tips of Jak's ears burned. What did they want him to say? That he was a starving street rat? Apparently that was already obvious. Let him keep what little remained of his pride!

"You...gave it to Mar, didn't you?" Damas asked. His voice caught. "You- oh gods, you only just saw him yesterday, didn't you?"

Flushed with shame for having to admit it, Jak sullenly nodded. He didn't expect Damas to leap from the bench and race across the room to grip his shoulders. Jak tried to pull back, but he was already against the wall.

"Is he alright?" Damas gasped, "Is he hurt? How- how tall is he now? Please, Jak, we- we lost two years of his life-"

Abruptly Damas released him and fell into a crouch before him.

"Two years of his life," he realized, and a guilty wince creased his brow, "...but all of yours. I- I am sorry, Jak. I do want to know what I have missed of your life, I do. I should be asking more about you, too."

"You don't know me," Jak mumbled again. "I don't expect you to."

This time the pain in the king's eyes was that of a fresh wound, not an old grief. He stood slowly and cleared his throat.

"I...er, I'm going to get some trail rations from the Dozer. It's- well, it's not much. But it's protein, and iron. And clearly you need both."

"Huh?"

"Food, genius," Daxter scoffed, pinching Jak's ear, "He's getting us food! Finally!"

Sig caught Damas by the elbow as he neared the door and murmured, "So you know: this conversation is not even slightly over."

"I know," Damas grimaced. "I- no, I know. I just- we'll talk about it later."

"We'd better. We're a team, Daym. You gotta keep me in the loop, no matter how you think I'm gonna react." Sig squeezed his arm affectionately, then let go. "You want me to find a bedroll for the boys? Just need one. Chili Pepper prefers to use Jak's head for a mattress."

"That doesn't suffocate him?!" Damas sputtered, looking back at the two foot mustelid climbing up Jak’s arm.

“Apparently not, but don’t ask me how. I’ve seen those two sleep all of three times,” Sig huffed.

<Prev Next>

[lucabyte]

Perceptive kid, I wonder just how much they pretend not to overhear.

[my-name-is-apollo]

I find it funny that for 2+ years Hades game fans speculated why Apollo wasn't in the game and the most popular theory was that he didn't want any drama with Achilles (some even saying that he'd be scared of Achilles) but turns out that he just. didn't give a fuck about Hades' family.

[gravidwithlore]

The young lord of the land in a favored outfit and the young lord in the same outfit (well, close enough anyway) after the people's revolution.

See also: The haughty young lord cruelly reprimanding "the help" while 6 months pregnant and the young "lord" laboring and sobbing as he begs the revolutionaries to untie his legs so he can give birth to his big overdue babies.

[omensofatimelord]

The thing about testosterone being a controlled substance means that acess to it for hrt is restricted. While it makes access a significant issue for many people and an easy and effective way to prevent trans men and mascs from transitioning (as we've seen terfs campaign for and succeed at doing in Britain) it also means that is very easy for health care professionals to be able to take it away from trans men/mascs arbitrarily. This is most aborant in cases where trans men/mascs are forced to detransition to gain access to abortions after being raped. However, the first sign of an issues tangentially related to hormones a gp, without any training in trans people or hormones, can and will stop a person's testosterone. Apart from how stressful it is to know that for the rest of your life you'll be dependent on the goodwill of a random person, this has measurable negative consequences for a trans person subjected too it.

Going off t fucking sucks at the best of time, but being forced off t will most likely result in depression and worsening mental health for a trans man/masc, who are already one of the most likely groups to attempt suicide. It can also put a trans person at risk if they suddenly start being visibly trans again, especially if they're closeted in, say, a work place environment. Trans people, including trans men, are already one of the most targeted groups of harassment and violence and sexual assalt and forcibly reducing or stopping t can out people and risk their safety. And a gp won't see this or care about this, or attempt to treat a trans man/masc first or ask for their opinion or situation.

Ultimately, testosterone is seen as entirely optional and so the first resort when something goes wrong it to take it away, when it should be considered the last resort, and is considered the last resort for cis men. And as long as testosterone continues to be a controlled substance it will remain like this.

(edit for clarification: I am a kiwi, this post was intended as a general critique of accessing t through health care systems - based in my lived experience in NZ and what ive heard from international trans ppl; including but not limited to the USA)

[sssammich]

fic: come what may

a/n: this is a continuation of THIS post which was inspired by the fanart. please give that fanart some love if you haven't, it was so very compelling to me and that's why we're here.

anyway read the first part and then come back to this lol

---

Lena retreated to the single stall washroom after graciously thanking everyone around her for their applause and cheering. In the quiet of the small space, she was able to think about the last five minutes of her life. 

It had been a week since she had spoken last with the caped hero, the word ‘villain’ rang in Lena’s ears still to this day. 

It had stung her, lanced through her more like. But in this world, she had no choice but to keep moving forward if only to survive. She knew that reintegrating Lex back into her life was a risk, but what was the alternative? To let back in the one person she’d trusted with so much of herself only to be the same one who broke Lena irreparably? It figured that they would be one in the same. Supergirl had a habit of being duplicitous, after all. 

Despite all of these thoughts, the dance had been more than she anticipated. For a brief moment in time, her world narrowed to the size of the dance floor when she and her former best friend twirled and glided across the space, held close to one another, swaying to the beat of the song.

Until Supergirl called out to her, the tenor of her voice bringing up a world long gone, the time together but a distant memory. Only to then ask her, “what’s your plan here, Lena?” 

The illusion broke through and shattered all around them, and her eyes darkened, her heart hardened. 

“You will never trust me,” she announced finally when she looked at Kara’s beautiful face, her equally beautiful blue eyes. Now, an enemy. “I can see it in your eyes.” 

She pulled away and turned, not sure she could look at that face again, anymore. Still, she would admit that it was enough consolation to see Supergirl on edge, to put her on her red-booted back foot.

She recalled turning her head slightly and caught enough of Supergirl's departure from the middle of the dance floor and into the evening sky. It gave her some satisfaction, but not nearly enough to placate the ache in her chest. 

Lena stared at her reflection; her makeup remained impeccably applied, impeccably in place despite the exertion of their dancing. The heat of Kara’s hands lingered all over her body, the warmth of those hands pressed into her, holding her in the illusion of safety as the song notes progressed. Her former best friend was clumsy in her movements, at least at first. It would have delighted Lena plenty to see Supergirl stumble her way through her movements. Yet, she held her own and led the two of them throughout the dance floor in an acceptable tango. On any other day, any other moment, she would have been charmed by it, let herself be led around so long as they stayed in each other's arms.

But those moments were no longer accessible to them. 

She returned to her guests and maneuvered through the compliments and conversations, but every now and again, she glanced up into the open sky. Just in case.

—

In the end, Lex was defeated and rid of once and for all. The details of it were fuzzy to her now, but none of it mattered. Simply that he was gone from her life for good, that he would no longer be a terror to anyone and everyone, to those she loved. 

Once again, however, she was left to pick up what remained of his ruinous rampage, if only to be surrounded by something beyond her isolation. 

It was just a few scant weeks ago that she’d reached a truce with Kara and her Superfriends (nevermind that she’d once thought of them as her own friends, as well). Now here she stood weeks later: alone. 

Lena had run out of options or excuses and finally sought out help from Kara without hope or expectation for true reconciliation or forgiveness, from either of them. They’d drawn their lines from one another so long ago, she’d considered them carved in stone. 

Now she stood on her empty balcony overlooking the city just after the sun had set and the sky was now engulfed in dark blue. 

Without a brother, a mother, a father. An orphan, twice over. It seemed that she was destined to live in solitude. They say no man was an island, yet perhaps Luthors were. 

She gazed at the last remnants of the setting sun across the horizon, not giving away that she heard the sound of a cape billowing at the far end of the balcony. She made no move to say or do anything, simply took a sip of the amber liquid in her glass. If Supergirl had anything to say, then Lena was not going to stop her. 

“How are you?” Kara finally said, after minutes trickled past them. 

She scoffed, unable to help herself. She glanced over her shoulder and watched as Kara hovered outside of the balcony. She simply took another sip of her drink. 

Kara, never one to leave well enough alone, moved so that her feet touched the ground and she stood somewhere behind her. Lena closed her eyes and took a swig of all of her remaining drink. 

“You’re trespassing.” 

“I know.” 

“I can have you arrested.” 

“That’s fine.” 

“What do you want from me?” 

“A dance.” 

Lena quickly turned around, Kara standing only a few feet away, her arm outstretched. She glanced up and met blue eyes, an ocean of patience. 

Resigned, Lena unfurled the fist by her side and placed it in the offered hand. She took a step forward until their bodies were almost flush with one another, Kara’s other hand placed on the small of her back. An easy fit between them. A thought that Lena shoved into a box for rumination and reflection later on. 

“There’s no music,” she commented needlessly even as she put her free hand on Kara’s shoulder, her nerves manifesting in lightly scratching the fabric of the supersuit under her fingertips. 

“There’s always music.” Just then, Kara pulled her phone from a hidden compartment behind her and pressed the screen until soft music started playing. It was the final duet in Moulin Rouge between the two leads, where she and Kara shed a tear or two when they watched it in the past—a distant lifetime ago. They were now extraordinarily different people from those versions of themselves. 

“This musical was a tragedy.” 

The superhero shrugged, her eyes focused past Lena’s head. “I know.” 

“Are you trying to tell me something?” 

Kara eventually returned her attention until their eyes met and Lena waited. She watched as Kara took a deep breath and offered Lena a cautious smile, resignation plastered on her own face. “I’m trying to tell you a lot of somethings.”

She studied Kara’s face, wanted to glean any kind of information from her features alone, but Kara betrayed nothing. “Start with one.” 

“I’ve been practicing.” When she furrowed her brows in confusion, Kara clarified by twirling Lena out of her embrace only to pull her back into her orbit once again. This time without bumbling through any of the movements nor without a stutter in her steps.  

The move surprised Lena enough to take her breath away, her senses suddenly alight as she considered what any of it meant. When? How? Why?

“Tell me another,” she whispered, her hands grasping tighter onto Kara just as the song started to swell. 

“I want to start over.” 

Lena stopped in her tracks so Kara did, too. Distantly, Lena observed that neither released their holds of one another.

“Why? We’ll only hurt each other.” 

“Maybe. Probably,” Kara supplied before tugging Lena back closer to her and swayed side to side to encourage Lena to do the same. “But life without you in it is infinitely worse, I think. So if it’s all the same to you, I’ll take my chances.” 

Lena’s heart felt like it was getting catapulted across time and space. And maybe it was actually getting catapulted along with every sway she took with Kara. Still, she couldn’t help but push. “Even with a villain?” 

Kara grimaced slightly before flashing an apologetic smile. “Sure, Lena. Even with a villain.” 

“I was one, you know,” she offered, watching for Kara’s response. She was complicit, had gotten her own hands dirty. She owned up to that. 

“I know.” But Kara simply shrugged and brought them closer. “Believe it or not, I’ve been one, too. You’re not exactly very special in that department, Lena.” 

A small laugh that bubbled out of her caught her off guard, and Kara smiled at her before spinning her away and back together again until Lena hid her face against the crook of Kara’s neck until the song finally ended. 

They parted from each other, Kara taking a step back until she was a few feet away, her hands clasped in front of her. 

“Thanks for the dance,” Kara said. 

“You’ve gotten better.” 

“I appreciate that. It means the practice has been paying off.” As if nodding to herself, Kara gave her a smile and began to turn so as to take off into the night sky, but Lena stopped her. 

“Tell me one more,” she urged, realizing she didn’t want their interaction to end quite yet. 

Kara then looked over her shoulder. “Can I come back tomorrow?” 

“If you’d like.” 

“I’ll tell you tomorrow.” 

“I’ll hold you to it.” 

Kara’s body twisted so she was looking at Lena more fully. “Goodnight, Lena.” 

“Goodnight, Kara.” 

Lena watched as she took off into the sky, disappearing into the night. She’d stayed out there for a little while longer, the heat of her drink coursing through her veins while the moment between them warmed her against the cool breeze that passed through. 

Nothing had yet been fixed, and there was a long road ahead of them. But something in her caged heart had loosened, allowing her to breathe again. That was a start.

[thefirstknife]

The Infinite Forest

Sighs. This post has been on my mind since we saw the trailer for Echoes, because they showed us the gate to the Infinite Forest and I thought: how many people even recognise that? Let alone have been there? Or know stuff about it? It's not been in the game for over 4 years, outside of a few pvp maps.

The Infinite Forest was a victim of the yoinkening of planets at the end of Arrivals. Unlike Mars and Titan that have since returned, Mercury has not (and neither has Io) so there was really no reason to think about it until they decided to do something with that. And it appears they've decided, something I hoped they might do in Echoes, given that we've speculated from the start that it would be a Vex season.

But now that we did get the proof that we'll be dealing with it somehow, I want to get into it, and mostly because they gave us zero explanation about how is it even possible for us to consider the Forest. I'm going to have a normal time with this one. I know we'll get at least some answers in a few days, but I need to cook in the meantime so I don't descend into madness (too late). Obviously spoilers for this week under the cut, and also a long post:

What is the Infinite Forest?

How does it all work and why?

What happened to it?

Echoes

What is the Infinite Forest?

The best, and arguably only, source for this is unfortunately a vaulted campaign, Curse of Osiris. Here's a link to the campaign from Destiny Lore Vault, but there are also playthroughs around from the time it launched. It's not needed to watch the whole thing, although it is fairly short, but this is where most of the information about it comes from.

There's also the Osiris comics that accompanied the DLC; first two are available on Bungie's site. The third is only in the physical book, helpfully scanned here.

Probably the most concise explanations are from the campaign:

Reflection of Osiris: Behold — the Infinite Forest! A planet sized prediction engine, simulating trillions of realities in parallel, all geared towards a single Vex purpose. Keep going, and you'll see. Sagira: The Vex are simulating reality in here. Brute forcing the future. And before you ask: everything in here IS real enough to kill you.

And this entire lore tab:

Physically, I am beneath the surface of Mercury. That is what Sagira's sensors say. The Vex hollowed out the planet, replaced its molten heart with cold right angles. But that is not what I see. I see infinity. An infinity of possible worlds, so perfectly simulated as to be indistinguishable from the experiences I once called "reality." I can touch them, taste them, pass lifetimes in them! They grow within this machine like fruit upon a tree—no, a forest of trees, its fractal expansion nigh unmeasurable.

Essentially, the Infinite Forest is a simulation engine that the Vex use to make predictions and find possibilities that suit their goals. It's physically located inside of Mercury; the Vex dug into the planet and replaced its insides with the engine. So far it has only been accessible from Mercury, from a single gate. Putting my 7 year old screenshots here like grabbing pictures of loved ones from a photo album:

Ikora noted that Osiris spent a long time studying that gate back in the day, believing it's the entrance. And he was correct.

There is a Vex gateway near your location. Osiris spent years studying it. He was convinced it was the door to the infinite Forest. If it is still possible to find Osiris, we need to open that door.

Osiris, or rather, his reflection, also said:

First, I will show you where it all began. Mercury, untold centuries ago, before the Vex arrived. Here, the Vex planted the seed that became the Infinite Forest, and its Mind, Panoptes. Panoptes has a single purpose — reshape reality for the Vex.

To keep things simple, the campaign revolved around us stopping Panoptes from achieving the Vex' goals by using the Infinite Forest. We ended up killing it, of course. We did so by hopping around through the Forest, going to simulated pasts and futures.

But the Forest largely consists of a really weird constantly shifting space that looks like this:

Thank you past me for this really helpful screenshot. It looks like it's an open sky, but it's not; the ceiling is a solid flat surface. That is the surface of Mercury, seen from the inside of the planet. On the edges of the picture, there's two tall structures; one looks worn down and destroyed, the other looks newly built. These are the gates leading to the actual simulations. The left one leads to a simulated future and the right to a simulated past.

These structures are called "trees" and are the reason why this place is called the Infinite Forest. Each of these "trees" generates a simulation and leads there, but you have to go through this shifting reality with ever-changing platforms to reach them. This is the physical space needed to essentially "run" the Forest.

You can still see this on pvp maps Fragment and Convergence:

A lot of the stuff about how the Vex actually made this was not entirely confirmed at the time; the stuff about Mercury being converted back during the Collapse was something that's been in the lore since literally D1, but not much was known about how true any of that was or how it started and how it was done. This was somewhat cleared up later, in the first page of Trials and Tribulations (from Worthy). I say "somewhat" because like. Reading this page is an exercise for sanity:

Chrome-hooked appendages |breached sky, counted in triplets| stretched for miles through sun-soaked atmosphere. They bored |with deepest intentions| into the marigold sands. From the great temporal chasms |wailing mouths of creation| flowed an ocean |a second conception| of radiolarian fluid. Across the horizon |of definitive sprawl| the scene was |super-imposed design| resonant and |uniquely| multiplicative. Each injection site |form mirrored in the hundreds of thousands| fostered a new lineage in stone and steel and fluid. |They would live| the new age in sub-routine |sleep| and observation. They would foster the |metallic| seeds of a generation in |twilight| time. From the sites bubbled pools |progeny| of |endless possibility| that murmured chaotic, |lullabies of change| and wrung the Traveler's Light from Mercury. The Light coalesced |imbibed| within the pools. The planet transformed |reborn| into a |sleepless dream| machine of prediction.

Yeah. What this whole thing seems to be implying is a confirmation of Mercury being converted by the Vex during the Collapse. The Vex flooded the planet with radiolaria and drilled into it, changing its terraformed environment into a Vex world. Some of this is shown in Curse when we first visit the simulated past. The Vex appeared and started raising the spires and transforming the surface of Mercury into what we know it as. Its core was eventually fully replaced by the Infinite Forest.

After we killed Panoptes, Osiris essentially claimed the Forest for himself and returned there sort of indefinitely. He would leave years later, when he contacted us in Season of Dawn, though we know that he was periodically leaving anyway, since he was building the Sundial. It's not really been used for anything else, outside of various adventures and the quest for saving Saint which I went into in this post.

How does it all work and why?

It's always been kinda weird that the Forest was not a bigger deal, though it makes sense if we consider the out-of-game factors and the fans' general dislike of Mercury as a whole (which I personally think is a skill issue). The Forest was also difficult to work with so it was difficult to make new content for it which is probably why it was never really done, even though realistically, setting-wise, it should've.

It's mentioned in lore here and there, and Osiris spent his time there a lot up until Dawn. The Infinite Forest also alerted him that our actions drastically changed the Vex predictions which was serious and important enough for him to finally leave. So for all intents and purposes, the Forest was always a big deal, just difficult to implement into gameplay. This is quite unfortunate because it should've reasonably been something to use more, including explaining its danger a bit more in-depth over time. While Osiris did have a major influence over it post-Panoptes, the place was still largely Vex-controlled and they still had access to it.

So why is that dangerous in the first place? After all, it's just a simulation engine. That's true, but the danger is in how the Vex were using those simulations. By having access to a place that generates trillions of situations and possibilities, it allowed them to explore options that would normally be almost impossible to explore in-person, physically. Even the Vex, who can exist outside of time, would need to spend... well... time and resources to explore these options by simply time travelling. With the Forest, they could just generate them all at once, instantly, with no time passing outside of the Forest.

They could use this to simulate anything and then explore what would happen if they followed that possibility, which allowed them to predict more accurately. It allowed them to essentially run a certain scenario through every single possible iteration and see the outcome of all of them, then pick the option that suits them best and act accordingly. It could also let them study their enemies; by simulating many situations and observing how the enemies react in those situations, they could learn about the strategies their enemies use.

This is incredibly powerful and dangerous. But are there limitations to their simulations? Sort of... As we know, the Vex can't simulate Light or any other paracausality, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't try. This is where things get complicated because we lack a lot of the details about how this all works.

From what we can tell, the Forest can include simulations that feature paracausality and Guardians; it's seen in the intro cutscene for Curse where Osiris casually wanders into the Guardians raiding the Vault of Glass. It was also briefly mentioned in Lightfall's CE (page 28), where Elsie explores different timelines. In one of them, she finds Osiris wielding Stasis who tells her that he saw her wielding it:

"I saw glimpses of you wielding this power during my time in the Infinite Forest."

This is where things get complicated because we don't truly know if there are meaningful differences between normal simulations and simulations produced by a planet-size machine. The Vex, for all intents and purposes, can't really simulate Light and Guardians, but could they create simulations based on what they've personally experienced? After all, the Vex from the Vault of Glass experienced the Guardians raiding them; can they load up their memories and simply replay it? Would that even count as a simulation or is that simply just a recording that you can access within the Forest?

Is it accessible in other Vex spaces or is the Infinite Forest unique in some way? After all, there is also the Vex network as well as corridors of time. There's also some sort of overlap between them, according to Osiris:

...Vex security measures where the network intersects with the corridors of time.

There's even the implication that a simulation from the Forest could potentially escape the engine and enter the real world.

Sagira: Hey, team! Copies of the Cabal invasion are trapped inside the Infinite Forest. On the, uh, off chance one of them escapes, possibly armed with world-breaking Vex tech… Ghost: Wouldn’t be the first time. We’ll handle this.

There is also the whole question about timelines and realities and how that works in the Forest. Can you use the Forest to look into real timelines and realities, those that might be happening somewhere, or are they just projections and simulations of possibilities? Could you interact with them, and affect other timelines? This is an interesting question now that Echoes is going on with all the stuff about the Conductor and what's happening to Saint, but we currently don't know the answers.

What I think is the most likely is that the Infinite Forest is somehow unique and can offer a lot more than the normal Vex network; its simulation options are so well-developed and so powerful that it can genuinely simulate a lot more than the Vex usually would be able to, including showing glimpses of paracausality, especially glimpses that the Vex have themselves recorded in their interactions with Guardians. Then, they can use the Forest to try and build on that, essentially train the engine by feeding it trillions of data points to attempt to make accurate simulations that lead to good predictions.

And these seem to be the key words: accurate and prediction. The point of simulations is not just to look at things, it's to use them to be able to predict things, giving the Vex an advantage. This is directly referenced and discussed in the lore:

There's just one thing: if Osiris used the Infinite Forest to develop his prophecies, and the Infinite Forest cannot accurately simulate Light, how did Osiris predict the Traveler would wake? The Forest's very inability to predict this very thing is what prevented Panoptes from breaking ground with its apocalyptic calculations.

So what exactly is the Forest capable of? It can definitely show the past even if it involves paracausality. It can also show the future, though the accuracy of any future predictions may be in question, depending on the amount of paracausality involved. It's very much implied that it can also show other timelines and/or realities. And of course, it can simulate future possibilities, as well as show simulations of anything from the past; events or places alike. For example, Osiris simulated the Fundament, apparently:

Ghost: The Forest can generate so many Hive - it might as well be their homeworld. Sagira: We've thought about that. Ghost: Have you simulated the Hive homeworld? Sagira: Didn't go well.

If there are specific limitations, we're not sure what they may be. There probably are, but they're most likely deliberately not spelled out to prevent any kind of conflict with stuff they might want to add to the Forest later; like for example now, with Echoes. Because there's a lot of questions right now about the Forest now that Ikora has so casually told us we're going to be going back in there. So...

What happened to it?

As has been established, the Forest is physically located on Mercury. Or rather, in Mercury. Its one and only entrance is on Mercury as well. And Mercury has been eaten by the Witness over 4 years ago. So that's it then? Well no. Not only is the Forest on an inaccessible planet, it has actually been sealed, from the inside, before the planet was taken.

He struggled with his pack as a tempest beat on his eardrums. He withdrew his Infinite Simulacrum, impossibly small in this immense space, and with trembling fingers synchronized it to the frequency of the crack in the Forest. It ticked like a metronome and then… Silence. The Forest was sealed.

Instead of evacuating, Brother Vance decided to stay on Mercury, go into the Forest, and seal it. I go about it for a long time in this post, but basically he believed that it would be really bad if the Pyramids gained access to the Forest. He also believed that the Sundial did something to the timelines and that the Pyramids could exploit that, as well as the Infinite Forest being somehow "the key to all of this."

He also wanted to use the Forest to... spread hope. Through the timelines?

"I will walk into the Infinite Forest and spread hope, Guardian."

He essentially wanted to do something and prove that even Lightless people can still help. He appeared to be willing to die for this, which is quite strange mostly because this whole idea and endeavour wasn't in the name of Osiris. Hell, in a way, it was about doing something to fix the unknown consequences of Osiris' meddling with the timelines.

You notice Vance's hands are balled tightly at his sides. "The Pyramids draw close. Through this system and beyond, the Lightless are filled with fear. I am no Osiris, true, but in my small way, I will bring light to their darkness." There is clarity in his voice. "I will tell them they must believe."

Since I've gone into it in the other post in a lot more details, I won't go into it here again, although I could. But the point that I want to get across is that the sealing of the Infinite Forest was quite a significant part of Arrivals and the whole plot of the evacuation of Mercury (or rather the non-evacuation of Mercury; the sole reason for Vance staying was to seal the Forest).

In another post (you'll have to scroll through the back-and-forth insanity) I also mentioned how much of Vance's story in Arrivals seemed to be connected to him losing his mind about the effects of the Sundial on the timelines. It also directly links to the Perfect Paradox. All of these things have been quite prominently connected to this episode, especially the stuff with the Sundial and what Osiris has done with it and how it may or may not have affected the timelines and, most of all, Saint and the whole ordeal of saving him.

It's fairly unclear how many characters know what happened to the Forest though. The YW knows obviously because Vance told us directly. I do believe that Zavala would also know as we reported back to him, which also most likely extends to Ikora as well. Another issue is that we don't really have any specific proof that the sealing was successful or permanent. It seems like it was, but a lot of stuff could've happened in the past 4 years of Mercury being in an anomaly.

As I've mentioned many times before, Mercury is the last unsolved plot from Arrivals; as in, we genuinely don't know anything about it. Mars has returned in WQ and Ana's side of the story was concluded in Seraph. While Io is still gone, Asher's story was concluded in Defiance through Avalon. Titan returned in Deep, which solved the story of the planet and also Sloane. We know why these planets were taken (with the exception of Io, though it's fair to assume it had something to do with the Pyramidion because of Asher's story being tied to it), and we know what happened to all of the vendors. Except Mercury and Vance; two things inherently connected to the Infinite Forest.

We don't truly know why Mercury was yoinked, though it's once again fair to assume it was most likely for the Forest. But you know. It got sealed so the Witness couldn't do anything with it and we have no idea what it was doing with Mercury all this time. We also don't know what the hell was Vance on about when he talked about the "anchored timelines" and how the Forest is incredibly important to everything. Due to how unreliable he is, it could just be his usual cringefail. After all, Osiris himself did not have any plans for the Forest himself; he was upset that he'd lose it, but he didn't think anything more about it, even if during Dawn he insisted that the Forest cannot be sealed or destroyed yet.

But also I think dismissing it all is an easy mistake to make, and possibly a deliberate one. Everything with Vance is written to be as easy to dismiss as possible, but he did know certain things that were absolutely correct and real. Not to go on about the tones again, but. Yeah. And given the current situation...

Echoes

Failsafe has come up with a plan for which she needs data from the Vex. She specifically needs data that can be compared to the altered Vex on Nessus, so we need large amounts of information that hasn't been changed or messed with. She concluded that the best source of that data would be Saint's dead body. It exists in a specific space (and time) and would have this information; information that has not been altered or influenced by anything else because that Saint is dead and preserved as is.

Failsafe explained this to Ikora and Ikora agreed that this is the best source, she's just worried about how this will affect Osiris and Saint. She doesn't want us to tell them. So next reset, we're going to the Infinite Forest to find Saint's tomb again. Yay!

But like. How?

They presented this so casually, with Ikora even saying that the best "accessible" source of this data is the Forest and Saint's tomb. And I know that they know that we know that Mercury is gone and that the Forest was sealed. But they've already showed us the gate to the Forest on Nessus, twice: in the mini showcase and then in the intro to the season in-game:

The first picture is showing the gate when it's open. And yes, this specific portal effect has only ever been used for the Forest. The second image shows the gate when it's closed with that impenetrable barrier. The structure itself is different from the original; it's worn down, coloured differently and doesn't have the same tip - instead there's the weird orb and the statue. It looks far more Nessus-like, and closer to present-day Vex, or maybe future Vex. But it's guarded by Precursors, so I don't know. It definitely doesn't look like the original however.

We clearly aren't going to Mercury. And even if we were, how would we enter? Neither Failsafe nor Ikora have mentioned this little problem and it seems as if they already know that the gate is on Nessus; I assume they'll discuss the details of this in the Act 2 finale next week. But the problem is that without all of this context, how do they even explain the issue with the Forest? They can always shorten this to some reasonable quick explanation, but they still have to explain how are we entering the Forest. There's a few key problems.

Obviously, number 1 is that the Forest is on Mercury and as of now Mercury is still in the anomaly.

The Forest itself is sealed from the inside.

So far it has not been possible (or at least not known to us) to enter the Forest from any other location. As we've seen, Osiris spent years looking for the entrance and back in Arrivals he was quite upset about losing the Forest. If he simply had the ability to enter it without being physically on Mercury, then why bother or lament Mercury's loss?

It is, to our knowledge, one of a kind. It took quite a tremendous effort to build it and it requires a lot of power to run; a whole planet.

Possible solutions:

Mercury is back and Ikora hasn't told anyone yet because she doesn't want anyone to go there yet; perhaps it's in quarantine. I don't think this is very likely, but it's possible.

Opening a gate to the Forest from another location IS possible and we just didn't know about it.

Opening a gate to the Forest from another location is possible only because of the situation with the Echo; a powerful source of paracausal power can maybe help us do this remotely. So this simply wasn't an option before the Echo's existence.

The Vex and the Conductor have built or are still building a new Forest inside of Nessus this time. The Vex lost access to the original, either simply because of the anomaly or because it was sealed or both, so now with the Echo they're just doing it again, and better. So the Forest we're going into is not the original, but a new one; the assumption being that the data from the old Forest is accessible to the Vex so the new Forest can essentially run the same code as the old one, allowing us access to Saint's tomb.

The Vex and the Conductor only have to build a new gate that can lead us to the old Forest, despite it being in an anomaly and despite it being sealed. It essentially just brute forced another door.

And the possibilities in regards to it being sealed:

As I mentioned before, maybe the sealing wasn't as successful as we (or Vance) thought.

Vance is somehow still alive and he will open it for us from the inside, essentially concluding his role from Arrivals.

Maybe the sealing wasn't permanent; either the Vex could eventually counteract this, or Vance couldn't hold it closed for very long. He's a Lightless man and it's quite dubious how long he could survive inside. Maybe the seal automatically broke when (if?) he died.

If we're going with the option that this is a new gate to the old Forest, then as I said before, this may simply be able to counteract the seal.

If we're dealing with a completely new Forest, the seal may simply not even be in effect. The old Forest is sealed, but we're not going to the old one so it doesn't matter.

What I'm assuming is that Osiris could open the gate if he saw one again, so if the gate is simply now on Nessus (either to a new Forest or connecting to the old one), Osiris can just use his cubes as he did before and open it again, counteracting the seal. Vance's device used to seal it was made from Osiris' notes anyway, so I'm assuming it's something similar to the cubes. In that case it can just be opened with the same thing.

Ikora will just blast it open like she did back in Curse. Seal or no seal, new or old Forest, she doesn't give a shit,

There's an option for all of these that's basically just they don't mention it all. I don't think this is very likely, but hey. It's possible!

I've been running these scenarios in my head for days. Actually, I've been running them ever since the showcase for Echoes showed us the gate to the Forest, but this significantly increased when this week confirmed that we are indeed heading in there. And it was delivered so matter-of-factly as if there aren't any of these problems and scenarios I listed above. This is baffling me. I know there will be some explanations offered, but the setup completely blindsided me with how it was delivered. Ikora with the simple "Oh yeah the best place to grab data from is the Infinite Forest. Pack it up boys." And I'm standing there with a 8 hours long presentation asking her to explain how. She blocks my number on vannet.

Perhaps the situation is far simpler than I'm making it out to be. It would be really easy to just write the old Forest and Mercury away as being permanently lost. That way you don't have to explain or deal with any of the stuff with the anomaly or the yoinkening or Vance's shenanigans. I will obviously remain forever unhinged about it if that's the case because I simply need to know what happened, but it's the easiest way to deal with this. The Echo allowed the Vex to make a new Forest, they're using massive amounts of radiolaria and the core of Nessus to just recreate it all, then they copied all the data from the old one into it, booted it up and that's it.

But what if the seal is in effect? Or what if we're dealing with the old Forest on Mercury that's still in the anomaly? How do they plan to deal with that in a single mission? Well... We have no clue.

Bungie article lore time, but back last year in the State of the Game article, they said this about the pvp map Multiplex:

Although many of us had been thinking about a lo-fi Vex map for the Crucible, the challenge of this palette was the possible lack of player orientation in the play space. We thought bringing the Mars palette into the Vex Network realm would be a great way to mitigate this while adding an evocative look. Narratively, the space is in the middle of compiling the Infinite Forest, so this is what you’ll see in action.

Yes, while everyone was losing their mind about this article, I was looking for lore about the Infinite Forest. But yeah. It seems like they have information about it in the network and they were using it to compile that information; perhaps preparing to make a new one? Or simply using it for data.

So essentially, the Vex could have enough information about the Forest to recreate it, and better now with the Echo, which would allow us to simply bypass the anomaly and the Forest being locked, while allowing us to enter and still find Saint's tomb. This is by far the easiest solution.

But I want a conclusion on Mercury and Vance. I feel like this episode is the only time to really do that and they've been giving us so many Mercury things already, clearly showing that it was a big inspiration for it all. The music, the assets, the enemies. This includes the stuff about Saint and his grave, as well as the whole thing with the Perfect Paradox. There's still Act 3 of course and some still unknown exotic mission, but I feel like the quest that has us literally going into the Infinite Forest to revisit a place not even from Dawn, but from Curse, is the best spot to also deal with this.

I just have no idea how that's going to happen and I wanted to list out the stuff that would have to be somehow addressed and solved, even if the solution ends up being the simplest one. I also wanted to try and list some information about the Forest itself since this thing has not been in the game for years. I hope this was useful and that it explains things well.

Anyway, I've spent the whole week pacing around my room like a wild animal. Help.

In conclusion:

[svtskneecaps]

dude i fucking love how this server has communication as its premise and built into its fucking core. i fucking love that. bc it's one thing to be like 'this server is about multilingual communication and cultural exchange!!' bc that could present in any NUMBER of ways but like. with the federation and the eggs and a common shared goal they all decided WE ARE A TEAM. and like, ok,

when baghera was sus of jaiden because of the thing when pomme died and jaiden had been the reason baghera left her side for the only time that day, i wasn't even worried. i wasn't worried bc i was like "we just wait. because i know they will TALK TO EACH OTHER." and I WAS RIGHT. TWO DAYS LATER IT WAS ALL CLEARED UP AND BAGHERA WAS HELPING HER OUT WITH CUCURUCHO

and the ordo theoritas is functionally a secret organization. it would be SO EASY to gatekeep the lore, on grounds of "the federation is always watching and anyone could be a spy" and yet the ordo theoritas says that, like bad SAYS THAT, says OUT LOUD, "anyone could be a traitor" and then turns around and goes "hey person i've had a few days' worth of conversations with, here's a detailed rundown of everything we've learned about the island's mysteries, and the secret location of the ordo base". SOFIA was supposed to be secret from everyone, and for a little bit she was. but now like, the ordo theoritas is showing her to everyone. it would be SO EASY to hide things and to gatekeep things but they just. don't do it. here's the supercomputer!!!! don't forget to grab her waystone so you can come back anytime!!!

bad learns something. "i need to tell forever/cellbit/baghera". forever figures out a new way to protect the eggs, and he gets it to everyone within days. cucurucho tries to have a secret conversation and the entire server knows about it almost instantly and there are three people buried in the walls reading the subtitles and giving each other meaningful glances

i love it. i love it. miscommunication plotlines drive me up the fucking wall and the fact that i wasn't even SCARED when jaiden and baghera could easily have angled into an angsty tangled web of that and instead just MET WITH EACH OTHER AND EXPLAINED EVERYTHING AND CLEARED THE AIR ALMOST IMMEDIATELY was so fucking breathtaking. and this is a multilingual server. this is a MULTILINGUAL SERVER. i love it. i love it so much i want to cry. it's a server for communication and people Communicate, it would have been SO EASY to slip into monolingual factions and stick to the familiar but they DIDN'T. they DIDN'T. WE GET TO HAVE A THEORY TABLE WITH SO MANY LANGUAGES SITTING AROUND IT. we get to have conspiracy walls in every language!!!! idk sometimes i forget how fucking CRAZY all this is, like the scale of what they've accomplished

so yea thank you to quackity and the qsmp admins for this, and thank you to the streamers for hearing 'this is about connections' and taking it ENTIRELY to heart, and also thank you to whoever the fuck decided to give quackity's school class the job to look after a fucking egg to learn about parenting. bc holy shit. holy shit.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Besties can't enable pvp on each other, right?

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[cherry-scribbles]

She lives ON Long Island, not IN Long Island!!!

Click for better quality <3

[cringefaecompilation]

liam: specifically makes orym a character that is actively biased and brings up his bias on a near-constant basis to goad other party members into challenging his viewpoints but has insofar failed to get anywhere outside of introspection he takes upon himself because they're all convinced he's supposed to be the moral core of the group rather than someone they need to question because he's comparatively "normal" and his problems/traumas are more grounded than theirs

matt planning on taking out orym's kneecaps with a bat come thursday:

[robinsceramics]

some of my creatures from this semester!

[image descriptions: photos of ceramic animal sculptures: a blue bunny with a white-and-cream crescent moon attached to its back, a small bust of a dark green anthro fox wearing a blue blouse, a green kiwi bird, a white rabbit lying down, a blue-and-cream raccoon, a simple gray fox head, a rabbit with spiral and spot designs in hazelnut brown, and three tiny minimalist bunnies in chartreuse, sky-blue, and cool violet.]

[crabsnpersimmons]

I think Sun and moon should swap cat onesies, that’ll be much comfier

a very good idea!

unfortunately... not too much of an improvement 😅

Clip thought of everything 😂

[asleep-kat]

"And by the name of the Lord, you shall PERISH."

TYPE : GREATER MACHINE

DATA :

Built during the New Peace era, the Evangelist0-1 model ( or E0-1 for short ) were made in the image of angels. Unlike the other machines, E0-1 has a built-in voicebox, allowing them to spread the good name of the Lord to his people.

These models are loved by humanity. Mass-produced to be included in every city that was still left standing. They were made to carry the spirits of thousands as well as teaching the children about ethicality and manners.

They were thought to not be capable of violence, or atleast they weren't coded to be able to do so. But when the stock of blood ran low, so too did their morals.

E0-1 has a variety of weapons: some carried a small blade the size of their hand, while others hoist a giant nailgun. No E0-1 model were made with a weapon, hence the variety.

Although many E0-1 models were built during when mankind was still alive, only one is left standing today.

Nicknamed "The unholy", they selfishly slaughtered through their own kind for blood. The nailgun, their prized possession, is the key on how they had managed to survive for this long.

STRATEGY:

- They will shoot thousands of bullets at you with almost precise aim. This might make them seem impossible to defeat, but they do not have unlimited ammo. This opens up a window for you to attack.

- Due to how their legs are built, they cannot run. Make sure to always be behind their back whenever you attack. But watch out for their wings, they will swipe at you if you get too close for too long.

- Their nailgun can be turned agaisnt themself using magnets.

[rockturbot]

:/ Anybody else here who actually Likes the new names?

[sugarpasteltmnt]

Has the fam even had like, a minute to breath since Draxum’s ceremony?? 😭

they have not 🩵