#dont ask me why hes tyl

[miisart]

It’s not your fault, you stupid girl.

[rebo-chan]

Hope, this conversation is slowly eating me from the inside out. its making me SO unwell.  It feels nice to get out all my Tsuna thoughts tho. <3 

But yes, Amano having Tsuna wake up in a coffin?? Utter power move. No other series has made me actively freeze up and age like 50 years trying to figure out the fucking implications of that. When Tsuna asked TYL Gokudera why he was in a coffin?? As dumb of a question as that way, I was also “YEAH?? GOKUDERA? WHY? SURELY IT CANT BE THAT HE’S DEAD. THAT WOULD /NEVER/ HAPPEN. RIGHT?? RIGHT? GOKUDERA TELL ME HES NOT DEAD” 

Yknow what? I never considered that second point of TYL Tsuna always being the POV of someone else. But, you’re absolutely right. Lal thinks he’s not the kind of man who would make a decision like that, Irie believes he’s the kind of man who would make a decision like that if the situation was that dire. And then we’ve got characters like Hibari who are all “You’re finally getting closer to the man who sends a shiver down my spine” Like WHAT. /WHAT/ It’s really interesting to me that he’s both this kindhearted gentle person, who has the ability to put his “send shivers down Hibari’s spine” like what kind of person is that. LET ME *SEE*, AMANO. Now, I spent like an hour looking for this fucking panel and I just can’t find it, I’m beginning to think I hallucinated it but I remember this scene where Present Day Tsuna is thinking about everything that has happened and he gets angry at TYL Tsuna’s decisions. He says something like, “what was the older me thinking?” THIS PANEL IS REAL I KNOW IT I DONT HAVE IT TO SHOW YOU, BUT IT IS ITS OUT THERE SDGNSKGJSN. But, I think that adds to your point, like we really don’t know what kind of person TYL Tsuna is and present day Tsuna doesn’t understand it either. He’s become altered in a way that Present Day Tsuna can’t fathom himself.  Future arc was undoubtedly about pushing Tsuna to his limits physically, mentally, and emotionally until he has no choice but to improve to survive. Many times during the arc, Tsuna realizes that he can’t remain the way he is if he wants to survive in the world ten years later. The fact that present day Tsuna can’t fathom who TYL Tsuna is and how he could have made the decisions he did has to add to that theming I think. That was ALSO a Tsuna pushed to his limits, until he had no choice but to improvise to survive. 

Absolutely, yes tho!! TYL Tsuna bringing Present Day Tsuna to the future was the kindest thing he could have done considering what Byakuran would’ve done to him if he got his hands on Tsuna first. TYL Tsuna knew that his present day self was in the best place to improve, seeing as he had access to the Vongola Rings still. and UGH I just thought of this, but the fact that TYL Tsuna tried to avoid this conflict entirely by destroying the Vongola Rings in hopes that would deter Byakuran by rendering it impossible for him to complete 7^3. He TRIED. He tried the most intense choice he could, to avoid having to do this to his younger self and his younger family. But he ended up backed into a corner when he realized that Byakuran would just.. drag his younger self to the future anyway. I can’t imagine the pure mental anguish he was in. 

I also headcanon that Tsuna agreed to Irie’s plan only days after Reborn’s death. After that, he would have had no kindness left in him. That was his best friend - The first member of his family taken away from him. Permanently. Tsuna only knew Yuni for a bit and destroyed Byakuran for her death. He also /nearly/ became Vongola Decimo for Yamamoto. But?? Reborn’s death?? Oh he needed to make sure Byakuran would 1) die 2) Ensure the mare rings were permanently taken away from him 3) Erase Byakuran’s entire interference on their world. Which isn’t something we discuss as a fandom either LOL. Like the Byakuran we see in Rainbow arc, I’m PRETTY sure that’s a Byakuran from a different world seeing as he talks about how Yuni came to go “get” him and rescued him from his loneliness. But yes, he needed Byakuran to suffer, and more importantly he needed his best friend back, and his friend’s dad to come back, to ensure his parents were safe, to allow his friends to return to THEIR families. I think it’s really interesting that at the end of future arc, he walks up to his coffin to read what his past self said in that notebook. He absolutely felt bad about the whole situation, but seeing that everything turned out okay.. It must have been a lot of relief on him. 

As for the Yamamoto thing, yeah he absolutely would’ve lashed out if it was any one of his guardians that got attacked but Yamamoto is so... gentle. In his head, Yamamoto could not have done anything to have deserved that. Even without understanding the situation at whole, Tsuna got the idea that Yamamoto was mercilessly attacked (Which he was LOL) because Yamamoto would not have provoked someone like that. Again, in his head, the attack on Yamamoto was cold blooded and without cause. He needed to retaliate, because Yamamoto was innocent. At least that’s my analysis of it ~

Tsuna’s character is so fun to pick apart, from start to finish. It’s really fun that at the end of future arc, esp in the anime, the last look we get from him is one of confidence, completely different from the start of the anime or even the start of future arc. TYL Tsuna knew what was up when he said that that Tsuna was the one with the most potential to grow. Good on him <3 

HI HELLO, I FELT BAD CONTINUING THE CONVO IN THE POST BUT OOOOOHHOO YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE FEELING UNWELL ABOUT TSUNA HOPE. I AM INSANE ABOUT HIM.

FIRST OF ALL, I checked the link you sent and oh my god SAME "The Truth Revealed" is an INSANE CHAPTER TO ME. Tbh Future arc is one of my favorite arcs in KHR all together. I don't think I ever recovered from Tsuna waking up in a fucking coffin. Like I think that irreversibly altered my brain chemistry I havent been the same. My brains been spinning since i saw that. To find out that TYL Tsuna planned it in the Truth Revealed??? Like WHO is TYL TSUNA. WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. Like you pointed out that Lal yelled out at Tsuna wasnt like that, but to find out he was?? oh my GOD. Like it makes me wonder how much stress TYL Tsuna was under or how he came to the point that he felt like this was the only solution they could pull off. I think there's an addition that Irie did say that Byakuran would've found a way to bring the younger gang to the future anyway must have absolutely added to TYL Tsuna's stress and desire to get his younger self ready before Byakuran decided it was time before he was. Like I need to know IS HE HAPPY LIKE YOU SAID. I HOPE THIS MAN FINDS PEACE GOD KNOWS HE DESERVES IT. This is more of a headcanon than any solidified proof, just a GUT feeling. But I have to feel as if TYL Tsuna's actions being so... like that had to do with TYL Reborn's death. We know that they're close and Rainbow arc shows us that Tsuna would lift the entire world on his back if it saved Reborn. I can't help but theorize the mental state TYL Tsuna was in, after losing Reborn. Seeing how..hotheaded Tsuna can get about Reborn in Rainbow Arc and how he willingly goes to the Inheritance Ceremony for Yamamoto.. I can see him conjuring a plan like this to fuck the shit out of Byakuran post Reborn death, or even just for the possibility of getting Reborn back. But this is just a headcanon again. Either way?? Im FOAMING at the mouth with you.

As for the rest of our discussion, first of all I lost my shit when you sent the manga panel of Reborn looking shocked but holy shit i didnt connect those dots that Reborn was ?? shocked?? that Tsuna was going along with it. And that its coming from a place of anger and vengeance from Tsuna, which isn't usual for him but fuck they attacked his family. As you mentioned, they crossed that firm line drawn in the sand and Tsuna was going for their throat this time bc how dare they? When, in Tsuna's eyes, Yamamoto was done NOTHING wrong to his attacker. As for Tsuna becoming Vongola Decimo and how he would've been shackled, this is actually something we discussed in our server as well. The conclusion I ended up coming with is that in the end it didn't matter to Tsuna. He was seeing red. He was furious. He was willing to sacrifice everything, even his own freedom from the Mafia to avenge Yamamoto. It's either that he was so blinded by rage that he didn't consider the consequences of his actions, or even worse he was willing to take up the mantle of Vongola Decimo if it meant catching the person who did this to Yamamoto. For Yamamoto's sake, he would be Vongola Decimo. AND THAT IDEA??? OOOHHHH. UGHHHH. THERES SO MUCH TO TSUNAS CHARACTER AND IT DRIVES ME MAD BC HE SEEMS SO SIMPLE AT FIRST LOOK. AND IM??? IM AAAAH YKNOW??

[follow up to this post]

the future arc isn't personally my favorite, but i totally get the people for whom it is. the writing for it is really solid and really steps up from what we had so far, and i DO love so much that first part of the arc up to the end of the merone base raid.

you know, at times like this i wish i'd remember what my reaction was to it the first time i read it too, but my memory is shit lol. but i don't need to to agree it was so iconic and insane of amano to make tsuna appear in the future in a coffin. like not only it's the first thing we learn about the future, but also the first thing we learn about his future. that ten years later he's dead. absolute fucking power move from amano, like hello??

but also, while we're on the subject... this literally just came to me so idk if i'm going to be articulate about this lol, but i think there's something to be said about how the first thing we learn about tyl tsuna is that he's dead. and then he stays dead throughout the arc, mentioned and talked about, judged and defended, praised and blamed, but it all happens through other people. everything we learn about him, every choice (or lack thereof) and decision attributed to him, every glimpse into his personality and what kind of man he was, we learn all of it it through someone else's words. through someone else's eyes, and tho we're given no reason to doubt they're saying the truth, they can only be biased as they say it. like, amano could have made him appear through flashbacks, but she didn't. she gave him no physical appearance, no face, no voice. and then when she does do that (tho even then she still gives him no face), he only talks about his present self. has only words for him. and idk what is there to say about all that, but i know it's relevant to the themes of the future arc.

I think there's an addition that Irie did say that Byakuran would've found a way to bring the younger gang to the future anyway must have absolutely added to TYL Tsuna's stress and desire to get his younger self ready before Byakuran decided it was time before he was.

you're right! i tend to overlook that bit of information, but it is canon that either way, the present 10th gen would have found themselves in the future. so for tsuna to decide he'll be the one to make it happen and have control over it instead of byakuran, was of course the right choice to make. the safest one, both for them and their present selves. as well as the kindest ones, because of course, tsuna didn't just bring them to the future to leave them to die in it, the way byakuran would have done. he came up with a plan to make sure they were ready to face the future like you said, and would be strong enough to see it through. and the plan was still harsh and painful and arguably cruel on them, but it still was kindness from tsuna at the same time. consideration for the situation he had no choice but to get them involved in. it was him taking responsibility for it and sparing them the worse of it as much as he could and as much as realistically possible. and maybe it made little difference, but it's still more than byakuran would have allowed them for sure, and it did play a non-negligible part in them not only surviving the future, but coming out on top of it.

you know... for some reason i've always thought tsuna was level-headed when he agreed to go along with the plan. like of course his hands were being forced as he was backed against a corner, facing a hopeless and desperate situation, but in my head he still had himself together somehow. sat and considered the pros and cons of the plan with a cool head, before deciding it was worth the gamble.

but like. knowing tsuna, it's much more likely he hadn't, you're right. that he was standing on the brink, and maybe had already fallen from it. i mean, yamamoto's dad got killed, his parents were unaccounted for, vongola's hq fell and vongola was hunted, namimori was invaded and every people there connected to him hunted too, forcing kyoko and haru to be on the run, with lambo and i-pin after them to keep them safe when they were just fifteen but still forced to take part in a literal war. tsuna had already lost so much by that point, while still being at risk of losing much more. and at the same time, he had already lost the worst thing he could lose, because of course, there's also reborn. reborn who also died, who also got killed when he's the one person who's always been by his side, who's always been his rock and anchor, who's always known how to give him strength again when his own failed him. and MY gut feeling headcanon is that reborn died not too long before tsuna put the plan in motion. maybe even died only just a couple of days before that, and that was the last straw, the deciding factor that made tsuna go along with the plan.

so like. maybe tsuna was heartbroken and crestfallen when he made that decision. maybe it was an entirely emotional one, one he made out of spite and vindictive feelings for byakuran like you said. out of fear he'll end up with nothing more left to lose, and out his guilt for letting things come to that point and not being in a position--not having the power to make things right again. a decision he made out of his grief and the desperate hope he could get back everything he lost. the hope he could get reborn back. and okay, consider this, but independently of whether it was the right thing to do or of the chances of the plan to be successful, maybe he simply agreed to it too out of the certainty it's what present tsuna would have done too. that it's what he'd have wanted too, that he would have taken any chance that might bring reborn back to him. because it's reborn. oh i'm soo normal about this and their bond.

For Yamamoto's sake, he would be Vongola Decimo.

YOU CANT JUST SAY THAT TO ME LIKE I HAVENT THE SOFTEST SPOT FOR YAMS AND TSUNA. oh my god. oh my god??? for yamamoto's sake... for yamamoto. and i mean, i know tsuna would have done the exact same thing for any of his other guardians, but that amano chose to go along with yams instead of any other guardian... like again, i do very much believe tsuna would have reacted the same way were it anyone else, but at the same time i really do very much believe the fact it was yamamoto played a part in his anger and resolve to avenge him. i really can't explain it, but like. it's yamamoto, you know?

NO I KNOW!!!! tsuna is... he's so easy to overlook and deem unworthy of a second glance, but if you DO look back at him, and then really look at him, you can't stop and can't look away, and the longer you look, the more there is to look at. which is even more insane because at his core tsuna still is truly, really just some guy. he's just a complex character in very simple ways i guess??

anyway yeah, i need to LIE DOWN now, thanks.

[eeriehowl]

bel for the ask? wait have I sent one in. idk but. the ask still stands

no u haven’t sent one in b4, but hi thanks! 👌

Why I like them

i love bel bc they’re an interesting character to me, they’re also…rly relatable for me as well lol. anyway i always thought there’s more to them than that surface “i’m a prince” schtick, the whole catch phrase seems to center around them not rly seeing anything else as an identifying trait i think. which leads me to think bel has identity issues. i bring this up a lot but the tyl part where rasiel talks shit about bel to their face and bel just…stands there and takes it with a pokerface really says some stuff too. bel doesn’t say anything back or dispute what rasiel says, how rasiel was “always better at anything, no matter what it came to”. also bel is always teasing others, and on their character page in vongola77 it’s described as “playing” with others. bel sees it as a big game and i find that intriguing too. idk i just really like reading into bel’s character way too deep ig. bel is probably the one i know best, i feel like it’s really easy for me to ramble about bel, they kinda feel like home. and it’s a lot of fun to just think of their character and play with it. 

well then there’s also the obvious thing where bel was the reason i started watching khr so a strong attachment from that too. 

Why I don’t

they’re an asshole. they are insufferable. quite a bit self centered. that’s not gonna be enough for me though to ever not like them. 

Favorite episode (scene if movie) (((im gonna add chapter to this as well))

so of course i love the “twin princes” chapter in the manga where rasiel appears bc ..i felt that really added to bel’s character. i love the entire storm battle, how bel keeps trying to push gokudera’s buttons. their persistency to win got really creepy when they were prepared to blow up to win, in all logic they would have probably died there. also i like episode 64 in the anime a lot, now this isn’t rly a bel episode though it’s a xanxus episode, but i love how a scene shows off one of those rare moments when bel is caught off-guard (like when they saw rasiel in the future arc). when xanxus falls to the ground after the ring rejects him, bel cries out with mammon and rushes to get down on the ground beside xanxus. it’s one of those moments that shows off that bel does give a crap abt others. 

Favorite line

“stop interrupting my flashback” has to be my favorite line bel has ever said 

Favorite outfit

honestly? their classic outfit is so good. i love that. definitely my favorite. u can’t go wrong w striped shirts. 

OTP

i don’t ship bel with any1 romantically so nothing here. 

Brotp

bel/mammon…bc god i would die for these 2. i love their snarky relationship where they still have what seems 2 b mutual affection 4 each other. i could go on for days abt their relationship, i love them so much. 

Head Canon

bel sleeps with their room doors locked. they forget to shower bc they keep pushing it forward and have to be reminded to take one. they have a shitty memory in general though but tend to mislead and say they just didn’t bother to remember bc they’re a prince. also, i think they self harm. i’ve always thought so but bc of that 365 info it kind of just deepened…they like flowing blood but dislike scabs… so i can see them picking at their scars a lot. 

Unpopular opinion

bel is not as selfish as he is often portrayed imo. annnd bel doesn’t want anything to do with fran at all. kinda evidenced from the fact that squalo had to force them together on that one canon mission they went on together. further evidenced from that bel tried to kill fran immediately. 

A wish

GOD i want more bel and mammon interacting with each other, more like that scene they had in the varia arc b4 mammon’s fight?? i also want more development PLEASE but ..that’s an empty desire bc they’re a minor character in a small fandom. in the end i just want more content. 

An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen

don’t die please…

5 words to best describe them

selfcentered, provoker, Gay,,, i am bad at this,

My nickname for them

bel is already a nickname so i guess it’s just bel bc that’s what i always call them

[beanmaster-pika]

if you've been asked squalo (I would bet good money vicki has) then how abt ryohei?

Also gonna answer this one bc Ryohei, yay :D

Why I like them: He’s such a good guy!! The kind of person who would pick you up in a bear hug if you were feeling sad and would make sure bullies left you alone. Plus he’s always looking out for the younger ones? Kyoko’s so lucky to have him as a big brother tbh

Why I don’t: He’s very dense, you could say, and I kind of disliked him at first because he wouldn’t take a hint when Tsuna kept refusing to join the boxing club. Also he’s hard to draw

Favorite episode (scene if movie): Maybe the zoo episode? He just wanted to fight a bear smh

Favorite season/movie: Future arc! He didn’t have a very big part despite being one of the guardians, but I liked how TYL Ryohei kept looking out for the kiddos, and it was heartwarming to learn that he’d been running around all over Japan looking for them before Irie bazooka’d him.

Favorite line: I don’t know, I’m trash at remembering specifics. Uh… “THIS BOX IS EXTREMELY YELLOW!!”

Favorite outfit: Suit. I prefer all the KHR charas in suits tbh

OTP: ???? I don’t really spare him much thought in terms of shipping so I guess Hana?? Considering the implications they were together in the future. It might be interesting too, since she’s generally level headed and cynical and he’s such a cheerfully obstinate optimist. I read a fic of them once and it was really nice.

Brotp: HIM AND HIBARI!! I’ve always liked the thought of them being somewhat friends (by which I mean Ryohei thinks they’re friends and Hibari can’t convince him otherwise and resignedly just goes with it) since they’re the oldest guardians and both look out for the others in their own ways, and that was cemented when I found out that Ryohei started talking to him on the roof in one of the secret bullet novels or smth. …This reminds me of a thing I drew once

Head Canon: He basically just adopts all the guardians (minus perhaps Hib) as his younger siblings. Helps Yamamoto with training, reminds Gokudera to rest up and eat right, plays with Lambo, stays up late talking to Chrome if she needs and goes places with her if she feels nervous, and looks out for Tsuna.

Unpopular opinion: I don’t think I have one? Ryohei’s just such a Good Boy in general I wouldn’t change a thing

A wish: Live happy my son

An oh-god-please-dont-ever-happen: Get crippled (bc he’s so active it would crush him) or die (obv)

5 words to best describe them: Loud, sunny, boxer, cheerful, and of course extreme

My nickname for them: n/a

[embroideried]

hey marjorie u should answer all of the identity asks, please

YOU GOT IT

have you ever found a writer who thinks just like you? if so, who?not really! thats why i do it myself i guess

list your fandoms and one character from each that you identify with.no offense but uhhhmmmm i kin heavily with tyl*r Jos*ph. thats what this question sounds like skgjfsklgjslkhj BUT I DO ACTUALLY RELATE TO HIM A LOT on the real hes genuinely the only person or character to come to mind 

do you like your name?  is there another name you think would fit you better?actually yes! i love my name i didnt used to but. i do now its very pretty and unique

do you think of yourself as a human being or a human doing? do you identify yourself by the things you do?this. is a hard question i really dont know how to answer this

are you religious/spiritual?im not at that point in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs but i am more now than i was before thats for sure

do you care about your ethnicity?no im white. irish and british white. ireland is cool but like who cares

what musical artists have you most felt connected to over your lifetime? A CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL MUSIC OF MY LIFE (all of my absolute faves at some point):

evanescence

paramore/fall out boy/my chemical romance/panic! at the disco

the gazette

shinee

exo

infinite

marina and the diamonds

florence + the machine

the neighbourhood

twenty one pilots (not to be dramatic but i’ve never connected to a musical artist in more ways than i have with them)

are you an artist?yes. that was weird to say but yes i think so! i write and i do embroidery and i sew and draw and create all kinds of things so i think that would make me an artist!do you have a creed?thou shalt not ……………..be mean just to be mean

describe your ideal day date.That’s a tough one. I’d have to say April 25th. Because it’s not too hot, not too cold; all you need is a light jacket!

dog person or cat person?dog person but dont let that fool you…………i love me a good cat but i just love dogs very very much me having a dog is essential to my health

inside or outdoors?inside hoe i never go out!!!!!!! i enjoy the outdoors but ive never been outdoorsy

are you a musician?not currently but are we still starting a band??

five most influential books over your lifetime.the great gatsby, the no.6 novels, that disney channel star fanfiction video series i watched that inspired me to write zanessa fics at the tender age of 8, I LEFT THIS ONE UNFINISHED UUUUUUUUUUUUUH i dont know. the. dictionary. the guide to the legend of zelda twilight princess for the wii

if you’d grown up in a different environment, do you think you’d have turned out the same?no way! i would be similar for sure but the way you are is a combination of both nature and nurture nobody is immune to the environment they grew up in you would obviously be different if you were raised differently/in a different time/place

would you say your tumblr is a fair representation of the “real you”?for the most part yes!! im my most genuine self i can be but of course theres gonna be some things about myself that are different in person. that goes with everyone im sure. but i think if my willingness to fill out these entire questionnares says anything about me then im pretty open about who i am/what i think/who i think i am and all that!!which Harry Potter house would you be in? or are you a muggle?im a ravenclaw!!!! im a witch!!!!!!!!!!!!

do you love easily?i can become acquainted with people very easily but making real connections isnt as easy! but i think the answer would still be yes. like i can say with 100% confidence that i love you and all my friends and my family and my dog and like. josh and tyler. and i loved all of you like very quickly not like within minutes but like it really took no time. i have a lot of love. i havent Romantically loved anyone that isnt one sided but i think that also happens pretty fast

how often would you want to see your family every year?this is a bad question because i dont know i see them all the time and on wednesday im gonna be away at school and i wont see them ever

have you ever felt like you had a “mind-meld” with someone?i had to look this up but ive never touched anyone and telepathically communicated with them no but uh i HAVE sent the EXACT SAME MESSAGE/made the EXACT SAME JOKE at the EXACT SAME TIME as a few of my friends on multiple occasions like the kind of event that makes u literally scream

could you live as a hermit?no im not short enough

how would you describe your gender/sexuality?im a bi cis girl! the way i describe being bi is more of the “new” definition (being attracted to 2 or more genders) which some ppl argue that thats pan but pan is under the bi umbrella anyway and i feel like the pan label is too wide for me. i dunno. and i’ve had questions about my gender before but im comfortable the way i am and i dont find my gender identity too restrictive cuz gender is a myth anyway (doesnt that sound ridiculous next to my description of my sexuality what the fuck)

on a scale from 1 to 10, how hard is it for someone to get under your skin?um. like. 3 honestly i get annoyed pretty easily sdkgjskg but NOT TO WORRY!!!!! if you were annoying me you’d know. moreso in person than here but really dont worry about it i almost didnt wanna answer this truthfully sjkdgjskgpick one of your favorite quotes.anyone from anywhere can do anything (and this is that. thank you)

[hopeswriting]

YEAH IT IS DONT WORRY IT DEFINITELY RINGS A BELL FOR ME TOO. i'm not gonna look for it either because the future arc is a long ass one lol, but either way it's clear throughout the arc that tsuna just can't understand how anyone could have brought them to that kind of future, and then understands even less when he learns it's his future self who did it. it's clear that he's the one who understands that decision the least. which i think is the one thing that really alienates tyl tsuna from being seen as tsuna, both in universe by the other characters, but also by the readers. because if tsuna himself, his past self (present for us), just really can't fathom he'd ever grow up to take the same kind of decisions as him, then you just really have to take a moment to sit and ask yourself just who is tyl tsuna. or more accurately, just what kind of person he became.

if we want to be fair tho, i think it's important to keep in mind that among all the reasons why he can't, a very simple one is that he simply doesn't have enough shared experience to go on off. because by the time of the future arc, he still deals with mafia stuff only occasionally. in fact, he's only dealt with it twice so far (kokuyo gang/varia), but meanwhile tyl tsuna has been vongola decimo for ten years. so for all he knows, he's exactly what he'll grow up to be should he go through the same thing. for all we know, tsuna with ten years of mafia under his belt will look exactly like the tyl tsuna we're given glimpses of during the future arc.

but all that said, that tsuna just really doesn't recognize any of himself in himself, well... you can hardly just wave that away and dismiss it.

That was his best friend - The first member of his family taken away from him.

i know you mean here that reborn was the first casualty among tsuna's family at the hands of byakuran's war, but it made me think about how reborn is also the first family member tsuna's made. like, before there was ever any of his other guardians and then everyone who came after, there was reborn.

tsuna became friends with reborn first, put his trust in him first, made him family first. and on the other hand, reborn is the one who gave him his name back first, and in doing so, gave him back his worth and value as a person. gave him the confidence to build back up his self-esteem and self-worth, the trust that it was something he had ground to have, and the strength to fight for it so it won't ever be taken away from him again. reborn's the first one to ever tell him "of course you're not useless and have worth. of course there's nothing wrong with you just as you are now, but you can become so much more and so much greater. you're a diamond in the rough, and i'll see to it to help you refine and polish yourself to perfection."

reborn's the first one to ever tell him "you're name's sawada tsunayoshi, and being sawada tsunayoshi is the single best and greatest thing you can be."

and byakuran went and killed him? of course tsuna just went "oh. oh yeah? i'm going to undo and erase your existence from every single world, or so help me god." and then he DID. because of course he did.

(okay but on a more lighthearted note, i'm not the only one finding this hilarious right?? like tsuna really just. not only erased his existence, but also undid it entirely. ten years worth of it. from every single world. i mean, goddamn right esdfgvjhgdf???

and this isn't quite relevant, but consider this: tsuna is often made to be the one who keeps the monster reborn is, or at least can be, in check, but i think an underrated part of their dynamic is that reborn also does more keeping the monster tsuna can also be in check than we might first assume at first glance.)

I think it’s really interesting that at the end of future arc, he walks up to his coffin to read what his past self said in that notebook.

oh, is THAT what that scene is about? i've never realized it lol. but now i'm curious about what tsuna wrote in that notebook.

Tsuna got the idea that Yamamoto was mercilessly attacked (Which he was LOL)

HE WAS LMAO. i made a post about it during my reread because that was shocking, but past the shock, it's also kinda funny?? like, the way kaoru just jumped straight to murder in a fucking blink? i mean, yams joking "that couldn't mean overthrow vongola, right?" (which btw, is so, soo fucking funny, it cracks me up every time i think about it. like, THAT would have been his last words if he really died 😭😂) must have shaken him as, unbeknownst to him, it was exactly what it meant, but like, damn. murder right away? not even knocking him out so you can panic a bit and think about the next best course of action or something?

but then again, at the same time, of course it makes perfect sense when you keep in mind kaoru is a shimon. and i doubt they had the luxury to learn about mercy or half-measures when they've always been the weakest ones all their lives.

but that aside, i think your analysis is on point! yams is... well you know, tbh i wouldn't necessarily call him the most peaceful ones among the 10th gen, but he's the one always willing to talk things out first. the one who mediates tensed situations and rising, heated emotions so to keep things from escalating. he's the one who keeps a cool head so he can have a clear grasp on the situation and decide on the best course of action, however dire the situation might be at the time. and he's definitely not one to first starts fights if he can help it at all.

he's--he's the rain. tsuna's rain. and they did that to him? no wonder tsuna was on a warpath to make whoever did it regret it.

HI HELLO, I FELT BAD CONTINUING THE CONVO IN THE POST BUT OOOOOHHOO YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE FEELING UNWELL ABOUT TSUNA HOPE. I AM INSANE ABOUT HIM.

FIRST OF ALL, I checked the link you sent and oh my god SAME "The Truth Revealed" is an INSANE CHAPTER TO ME. Tbh Future arc is one of my favorite arcs in KHR all together. I don't think I ever recovered from Tsuna waking up in a fucking coffin. Like I think that irreversibly altered my brain chemistry I havent been the same. My brains been spinning since i saw that. To find out that TYL Tsuna planned it in the Truth Revealed??? Like WHO is TYL TSUNA. WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. Like you pointed out that Lal yelled out at Tsuna wasnt like that, but to find out he was?? oh my GOD. Like it makes me wonder how much stress TYL Tsuna was under or how he came to the point that he felt like this was the only solution they could pull off. I think there's an addition that Irie did say that Byakuran would've found a way to bring the younger gang to the future anyway must have absolutely added to TYL Tsuna's stress and desire to get his younger self ready before Byakuran decided it was time before he was. Like I need to know IS HE HAPPY LIKE YOU SAID. I HOPE THIS MAN FINDS PEACE GOD KNOWS HE DESERVES IT. This is more of a headcanon than any solidified proof, just a GUT feeling. But I have to feel as if TYL Tsuna's actions being so... like that had to do with TYL Reborn's death. We know that they're close and Rainbow arc shows us that Tsuna would lift the entire world on his back if it saved Reborn. I can't help but theorize the mental state TYL Tsuna was in, after losing Reborn. Seeing how..hotheaded Tsuna can get about Reborn in Rainbow Arc and how he willingly goes to the Inheritance Ceremony for Yamamoto.. I can see him conjuring a plan like this to fuck the shit out of Byakuran post Reborn death, or even just for the possibility of getting Reborn back. But this is just a headcanon again. Either way?? Im FOAMING at the mouth with you.

As for the rest of our discussion, first of all I lost my shit when you sent the manga panel of Reborn looking shocked but holy shit i didnt connect those dots that Reborn was ?? shocked?? that Tsuna was going along with it. And that its coming from a place of anger and vengeance from Tsuna, which isn't usual for him but fuck they attacked his family. As you mentioned, they crossed that firm line drawn in the sand and Tsuna was going for their throat this time bc how dare they? When, in Tsuna's eyes, Yamamoto was done NOTHING wrong to his attacker. As for Tsuna becoming Vongola Decimo and how he would've been shackled, this is actually something we discussed in our server as well. The conclusion I ended up coming with is that in the end it didn't matter to Tsuna. He was seeing red. He was furious. He was willing to sacrifice everything, even his own freedom from the Mafia to avenge Yamamoto. It's either that he was so blinded by rage that he didn't consider the consequences of his actions, or even worse he was willing to take up the mantle of Vongola Decimo if it meant catching the person who did this to Yamamoto. For Yamamoto's sake, he would be Vongola Decimo. AND THAT IDEA??? OOOHHHH. UGHHHH. THERES SO MUCH TO TSUNAS CHARACTER AND IT DRIVES ME MAD BC HE SEEMS SO SIMPLE AT FIRST LOOK. AND IM??? IM AAAAH YKNOW??

[follow up to this post]

the future arc isn't personally my favorite, but i totally get the people for whom it is. the writing for it is really solid and really steps up from what we had so far, and i DO love so much that first part of the arc up to the end of the merone base raid.

you know, at times like this i wish i'd remember what my reaction was to it the first time i read it too, but my memory is shit lol. but i don't need to to agree it was so iconic and insane of amano to make tsuna appear in the future in a coffin. like not only it's the first thing we learn about the future, but also the first thing we learn about his future. that ten years later he's dead. absolute fucking power move from amano, like hello??

but also, while we're on the subject... this literally just came to me so idk if i'm going to be articulate about this lol, but i think there's something to be said about how the first thing we learn about tyl tsuna is that he's dead. and then he stays dead throughout the arc, mentioned and talked about, judged and defended, praised and blamed, but it all happens through other people. everything we learn about him, every choice (or lack thereof) and decision attributed to him, every glimpse into his personality and what kind of man he was, we learn all of it it through someone else's words. through someone else's eyes, and tho we're given no reason to doubt they're saying the truth, they can only be biased as they say it. like, amano could have made him appear through flashbacks, but she didn't. she gave him no physical appearance, no face, no voice. and then when she does do that (tho even then she still gives him no face), he only talks about his present self. has only words for him. and idk what is there to say about all that, but i know it's relevant to the themes of the future arc.

I think there's an addition that Irie did say that Byakuran would've found a way to bring the younger gang to the future anyway must have absolutely added to TYL Tsuna's stress and desire to get his younger self ready before Byakuran decided it was time before he was.

you're right! i tend to overlook that bit of information, but it is canon that either way, the present 10th gen would have found themselves in the future. so for tsuna to decide he'll be the one to make it happen and have control over it instead of byakuran, was of course the right choice to make. the safest one, both for them and their present selves. as well as the kindest ones, because of course, tsuna didn't just bring them to the future to leave them to die in it, the way byakuran would have done. he came up with a plan to make sure they were ready to face the future like you said, and would be strong enough to see it through. and the plan was still harsh and painful and arguably cruel on them, but it still was kindness from tsuna at the same time. consideration for the situation he had no choice but to get them involved in. it was him taking responsibility for it and sparing them the worse of it as much as he could and as much as realistically possible. and maybe it made little difference, but it's still more than byakuran would have allowed them for sure, and it did play a non-negligible part in them not only surviving the future, but coming out on top of it.

you know... for some reason i've always thought tsuna was level-headed when he agreed to go along with the plan. like of course his hands were being forced as he was backed against a corner, facing a hopeless and desperate situation, but in my head he still had himself together somehow. sat and considered the pros and cons of the plan with a cool head, before deciding it was worth the gamble.

but like. knowing tsuna, it's much more likely he hadn't, you're right. that he was standing on the brink, and maybe had already fallen from it. i mean, yamamoto's dad got killed, his parents were unaccounted for, vongola's hq fell and vongola was hunted, namimori was invaded and every people there connected to him hunted too, forcing kyoko and haru to be on the run, with lambo and i-pin after them to keep them safe when they were just fifteen but still forced to take part in a literal war. tsuna had already lost so much by that point, while still being at risk of losing much more. and at the same time, he had already lost the worst thing he could lose, because of course, there's also reborn. reborn who also died, who also got killed when he's the one person who's always been by his side, who's always been his rock and anchor, who's always known how to give him strength again when his own failed him. and MY gut feeling headcanon is that reborn died not too long before tsuna put the plan in motion. maybe even died only just a couple of days before that, and that was the last straw, the deciding factor that made tsuna go along with the plan.

so like. maybe tsuna was heartbroken and crestfallen when he made that decision. maybe it was an entirely emotional one, one he made out of spite and vindictive feelings for byakuran like you said. out of fear he'll end up with nothing more left to lose, and out his guilt for letting things come to that point and not being in a position--not having the power to make things right again. a decision he made out of his grief and the desperate hope he could get back everything he lost. the hope he could get reborn back. and okay, consider this, but independently of whether it was the right thing to do or of the chances of the plan to be successful, maybe he simply agreed to it too out of the certainty it's what present tsuna would have done too. that it's what he'd have wanted too, that he would have taken any chance that might bring reborn back to him. because it's reborn. oh i'm soo normal about this and their bond.

For Yamamoto's sake, he would be Vongola Decimo.

YOU CANT JUST SAY THAT TO ME LIKE I HAVENT THE SOFTEST SPOT FOR YAMS AND TSUNA. oh my god. oh my god??? for yamamoto's sake... for yamamoto. and i mean, i know tsuna would have done the exact same thing for any of his other guardians, but that amano chose to go along with yams instead of any other guardian... like again, i do very much believe tsuna would have reacted the same way were it anyone else, but at the same time i really do very much believe the fact it was yamamoto played a part in his anger and resolve to avenge him. i really can't explain it, but like. it's yamamoto, you know?

NO I KNOW!!!! tsuna is... he's so easy to overlook and deem unworthy of a second glance, but if you DO look back at him, and then really look at him, you can't stop and can't look away, and the longer you look, the more there is to look at. which is even more insane because at his core tsuna still is truly, really just some guy. he's just a complex character in very simple ways i guess??

anyway yeah, i need to LIE DOWN now, thanks.