“Nine would have treated Martha better than Ten did”
I need to talk about this argument that never seems to stop circulating.
Note: Not a venomous/anti post. There’s more than enough of that across fandom spaces as is, and this is supposed to be a place for ✨sweet, blissful escapism✨
When making this argument, people seem to envision a scenario in which Nine never met Rose.
While I can appreciate a good hypothetical, recognizing Rose's significance to the Doctor (Nine and Ten) is essential to understanding why things with Martha played out the way they did in the first place.
In the third series, the Doctor is grieving. This grief is deliberately threaded into nearly every script, whether spoken aloud or not (and these are just a few examples):
He's burning in Rose’s wake the entire time Martha travels with him, which is why it’s so frequently called upon: It’s 100% deliberate in framing his grief. He grieved as Nine too, of course— having been fresh on the heels of the Time War — but then he met Rose, which changed everything.
Back then, he was still a rude, traumatized pain in the ass, but we watch Rose soften more of those jagged edges with every episode as they grow closer; as he lets his guard down and forms a deep connection with her.
He falls in love (against his better judgment) and it's game over.
And yes: provided S1E1 had been titled 'Martha', one can realistically assume things might have unfolded similarly to how they did with Rose. However, it wouldn’t have been that way just because the Doctor was Nine and “Nine was different” — it would be because he wasn’t already in love with someone else. The same can't be said for the start of S3.
Think of it like this: if Rose AND Martha had been in that cellar — if Nine had taken both of them along with him in S1 — we’d eventually be looking at the most melodramatic love triangle ever, what with him living in close quarters with two brilliant, gorgeous, compassionate young women... But Doctor Who is plenty “soap opera” as is with just one woman in the TARDIS.
(I certainly wouldn’t object to reading that fic, though)
Now, regarding the unrequited elephant in the room…
His inability to be romantic with Martha isn’t because he thinks her lesser, nor is it for lack of compatibility. It isn't because Rose is any better than her. It certainly isn’t just because he’s Ten.
It’s really only for one reason, which can't be denied — and now I’m a broken record:
He is still in love with Rose.
(cut from a tenrosedaily gif)
Nine is Ten, and Ten is only such a mess in S3 because he’s just lost the love of his life. Martha merely got caught in the crosshairs of a volatile Time Lord in mourning, and yes — it sucks. Absolutely.
But it also feels dismissive to chalk Ten and Martha’s relationship up to little more than some sort of mindless dance of pining, jealousy, and toxicity.
Ten trusted Martha with his life over and over again — and hers, with him. He constantly praised her brilliance, happily carting her around time and space with no intention of letting her go. In the BBC’s extended universe of novels/comics/cartoons/etc, there’s so much depth to their relationship: love and trust and trauma and sacrifice. They had their own special bond as mates, their own complexities — so it’s a bummer that it's forever overshadowed by the other things.
I’m not denying that there was a lot of stuff that sucked/was for sure toxic about Ten's S3 behavior, but so many of the things I've seen him catching flak for can be directly attributed to being A Clueless Fucking Alien Idiot (not a trait that’s unique to Ten) — as well as his flat-out obliviousness to Martha’s feelings.
So yes, I agree: if Rose never existed, he would have treated Martha differently as Nine. He also would have treated her differently as Ten. Certainly.
But Rose did exist, and when discussing canon, it matters.
“He tells me that he absolutely, 100% loves Rose... He tells me how my daughter; my wonderful, beautiful, clever little girl saved him from himself before… And he says that’s all because of me! I made her into the Rose Tyler that saved him.”
-Jackie Tyler, Flight Into Hull!
Martha got the short end of the stick in S3. She came round at the wrong place and time, but that doesn't mean it was all bad. It doesn't mean the Doctor didn’t adore her. It certainly doesn't mean the time they spent together was wasted or worthless. They were brilliant!
Sure, he could be a twat, but let it be known that he was a twat with Rose as well, both as Nine and Ten. I’m sure Tentoo can be plenty infuriating, too. So while I'll defend Ten (and Tentoo) into the ground forever and ever and ever, I'll concede that he's fucked up.
The Doctor is a certified Pain In The Ass. It’s one of the things I love so much about this character — dynamics.
But never forget that Martha was goddamn tough as nails and overcame every bit of it. She moved on with her life, and the Doctor moved on with his. One can only pray that, when they inevitably drag her back onto the show (which feels inevitable if I'm honest), we see at once that she's been living her best life for all these years.
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Honestly, LMK turns the plot on its head so often that I've never voiced this due to the Macaque hate club, but legit. What if Wukong killed Macky trying to save him because as we've seen with MK, he can use that amount of force, that same line, trying to keep someone from certain doom, so why not an out of control monkey with hijacked powers? Macky just. doesn't remember. but that might even be plot relevant since Wukong also doesn't remember things, supposedly. *stares at Nine.* He might've never done anything to Tripitaka and friends, I mean, current Macky has never even SAID anything about hating those guys, heck. He out right SAYS the Monk was good for Wukong and he was allegedly killed AFTER the journey, even if the friendship ties between them never ended afterwards, I honestly struggle to see Macky even being angry enough to want to "save" Wukong as he never did before to just.....be so crazy about it to the point Wukong needs to kill him over it. He'd stand down, he WOULD listen to reason, right? Unless if something else was going on? There'd have to be some other trigger for him to just go off like that, as for all these memories. I bet the "he" Nines was talking about could have been the Demon King of Confusion. You can really make up some fun new powers there, the guy's the first villain ever in JTTW, it's kind of poetic, and also. "Demon KING." Sure, good foe for the Monkey King. They can give him the LBD treatment in raising the prestige.
What if Wukong killed Macky trying to save him[…]?
this has, honestly, been my own theory for what went down since i started lmk. like i knew they would be vague about Wukong and Mackoach’s circumstance because, you know, Wukong did a murder in jttw and this is a kid show intended for an audience of 8-10 year olds. and that kind of topic is a doozy to do right in media (Western media especially).
anyway, by s3, i was under the impression that Macky assumed Wukong killed him final blow style, but Wukong actually left him incapacitated enough for him to admit defeat (and maybe, possibly leaving him for dead, oblivious to the fact that Mac might be too weak to use his shadow powers) because of how much lmk utilizes unreliable narratives. but then, watching Wukong’s and MK’s fight really solidified that original theory of mine. when Mackintosh frees Wukong from his memories in 5x07 (also jfc Wukong literally spent a whole season trapped in his memories and has to do it all over again, my poor babygirl ;-; he’s exhausted!!!!) Wukong looks horrified.
STOP MAKING HIM RELIVE HIS PAST HE ISNT OVER IT AT ALL AND HOLDS TO MUCH GUILT AND REGRET (pls continue!!!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏 put him through the ringer!!!!! make him snap por favor 🥺🥺🥺🥺)
ahem. AnYwAY!
clearly, that fight is considered one of Wukong’s deepest and darkest memories (which were what the 100-eyed Demon was looking for. because he likes the good tea like me frfr) and doesn’t like looking back at. in a way, it makes sense with how much distance he placed between himself and Macody in 1x09 (almost….indifferent one might say 👀 or trying to act apathetic about it which comes off annoyed…..ain’t that interesting?)
but yeah. good food for thought :3
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