#especially in regards to his relationship with corlys & rhaenyra

[thevelaryons]

ADDAM & RHAENYRA - The Dying of the Dragons

Fire and Blood, George R.R. Martin // Anti-Savior Savior Complex by @/asoftepilogue // Photo by Tony Webster // To My Father/To My Future Son, Ocean Vuong // Antigonick, Anne Carson // Tumblr Poll by @/allthingswhumpyandangsty // Smoke and Fire 1 by Jennifer Walton // Family Line - Conan Gray // The Second Coming, William Butler Yeats // It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) - R.E.M. // House Burning by Adobe Stock Images // Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad // Dynasty - Miia // Blinbox: Game Of Thrones Dragon Skull by TaylorHerring // unknown // A Storm of Swords, George R.R. Martin

[goodqueenaly]

What do you think was Addam & Alyn’s opinion on the situation with Laenor/Corlys. Were they aware about the truth of their father being Corlys instead of Laenor as had been said publicly? What would they think about the secrecy surrounding their father’s identity or their mother’s part in telling this lie alongside Corlys?

Certainly in public, the legitimated Velaryon brothers never seem to have acknowledged that Corlys was (almost certainly) their biological father. When debating names for his then-unborn eldest child, Alyn told Baela that if she gave birth to a boy, his wife should “[n]ame him Corlys, after my grandsire”. Too, Alyn’s monument to his late elder brother featured “carvings of a seahorse”, ambiguous enough a Velaryon designation to refer to either Corlys or Laenor. Moreover, Marilda’s official position during the recruitment of would-be dragonriders during the Dance was that her boys were “the natural sons of the late Ser Laenor Velaryon”, a position which Corlys openly supported - bringing Addam and Alyn himself before Prince Jacaerys and seeming “eager to accept these newfound grandsons”. Years later, this story had become the official position of the crown, with Aegon III declaring that he wished to appoint the by then Lord Alyn as “[his] admiral, as his grandsire was” and Unwin Peake instructing Alyn to put “[his] lord grandsire’s fleets” under the command of Gedmund Peake. So it’s possible that Matilda never told or confirmed to her sons that their father was the Sea Snake (worrying, perhaps, about two young teenagers maintaining silence on this delicate subject before and especially during the war), and so Addam and Alyn spent their lives believing that they were the offspring of Laenor Velaryon instead - or, at least, claiming they believed as much. 

That said, how Addam and/or Alyn felt privately is a completely different matter from how their parentage was officially recorded - and, indeed, those personal conclusions almost impossible to determine, given the arm’s length storytelling of Fire and Blood. After all, even if Corlys had ended his sexual relationship with Marilda after the birth of Alyn, “the Hull shipyards were like unto a second home for him” according to Gyldayn (paraphrasing Mushroom), far more so than they were for Laenor; working in Corlys’ shipyards, Addam and Alyn may have seen Corlys fairly frequently, even at a distance, and so had at bare minimum the opportunity to compare themselves to him. More to the point, the suggestion that Corlys fathered Addam and Alyn himself is not limited to Mushroom’s typically scurrilous gossip. Even Gyldayn admits that “the tale told by the fool [i.e. regarding the boys’ paternity] seems more likely than the versions offered by septon and maester”, adding that “[m]any and more at Queen Rhaenyra’s court must surely have suspected the same”. Later, during the regency, Willis Fell lamented that Baela had married a man with “[a] snake for a sire”, a surprisingly (and uniquely) explicit reference to the Sea Snake in relation to Alyn Velaryon. So it’s certainly possible that Addam and especially Alyn (who of course lived much longer than his brother did) were not immune to the speculation around them on the subject, and guessed or decided, albeit privately, that Corlys was mostly likely their biological father. 

Perhaps the situation of the Velaryon boys may be loosely compared to that of Mya Stone. Mya herself seems to betray no suspicion or belief, at least openly, that Robert Baratheon was her father: her memories of Robert appear to be only those of a man “as tall as the sky” who would “[throw] [her] in the air when [she] was very little”. Yet Mya’s royal paternal heritage appears to be something of an open secret, at least in the Vale, with even a lowborn servant like Maddy aware some two decades out from Mya’s birth that her father was the late king. Likewise, even if Addam and/or Alyn never really knew, or perhaps even suspected, that they were the children of Lord Corlys, many of those around them harbored such suspicions - and in both cases, we as readers can draw the obvious conclusion. 

(Also, once again not talking about That Other Show and please do not talk about That Other Show on this post.)

[ride-thedragon]

Imagine all the tasty drama we could've enjoyed if we hadn't been so fixated on Rhaenyra and Alicent with their whole "girlboss" saga. Especially in "The Blacks," there was so much potential in delving into the kids' lives.

Take Jace, Luke, Baela, and Rhaena, for instance, each navigating their own conflicts after their parents' hasty marriage following the deaths of Laenor and Laena. Baela and Rhaena could have harbored deep resentment toward Rhaenyra for replacing their beloved mother. Baela might still hold her father, Daemon, in high regard but feel betrayed by his favoritism towards Rhaenyra. The tension of Baela resenting Rhaenyra while loving Jace? Pure gold! Rhaena...isolated from her sister, neglected by her father, and full of loathing for Rhaenyra. Her development could’ve been so much more interesting, showcasing her growth in diplomacy, strategy, and politics. They could have shown us how she risked her life to claim a dragon! (Why does it have to be off-screen?!) Rhaenys and Corlys’ feelings towards the boys could've been so interesting! Did Corlys come to care for them genuinely, or only Luke? Did he view a grandchild or a political piece? How did Jace and Luke feel about their younger brothers, who look like true Targaryens? Did they harbor resentment towards them? The way Jace and Luke view Daemon, their new stepfather, could’ve been interesting too. Luke loses Laenor, and Jace loses not one father figure but two, Laenor and Harwin. And Daemon is so much different from Laenor... Watching Jace start to embrace his Targaryen roots, distancing himself from his Velaryon identity, would’ve been gripping! Did Jace push Luke to do the same, making them both painfully aware of their heritage and appearance? When did Luke start referring to Laenor as "Ser Laenor" instead of "father"? Did they ever feel guilty just for existing, knowing they’d never be enough? Ah, the juicy drama we missed out on!

I, too, wish they cared about the team black faction as a bunch of characters who are different with the same goal. They just don't seem to think any conflict can be allowed or that any character interactions matter past love interests, Daemon and Rhaenyra, which is just incredibly unfortunate.

Jace's anger this season being framed as wrong is so unfortunate because, in all honesty, what has he done that is so wrong? I would've killed to see him trying to bring Corlys into the fold.

None of the kids get to react, and when they do, it's never in a fair light because it can't last long enough before we as the audience forget they are a family, I guess. Season one was a rush to the start line, which I get, but season 2 has been so incredibly lacking. All the greens interact this season, past important relationships, and we see the way they play the game. Alicent and Larys were actively manipulating Aegon. We don't have anything close to that for the team black kids. Although they kinda are throwing Helaena to the wayside, we can still turn her around.

With the blacks, every relationship is strained to no real end because we don't get conflict. We are still left assuming 6 episodes in.

I don't like it at all, and I do think it's one of the bigger issues with the season. A lot of folks say it's boring or nothing is happening, but they took what should've been an introspective and character driven season and made it about the 'main characters'. I hope it pays off, but I'm halfway checked out, watching them rip Rhaena away and trying to mould her into Nettles and Baela.

To next season!

[nesiacha]

I already talk about how I dislike the whitewashing of Aemond and Daemon. Today I will talk about how I dislike the whitewashing of Cole Criston ( sorry again for the fans of this character).

Warning: There will be a slight spoiler regarding his relationship with Alicent.

In the books the guy is depicted as Sandor Clegane's foil. Let me explain Sandor is at first repulsive and voluntarily gives a very bad image of him but in the end has hidden qualities (he saves Loras Tyrell during a tournament from his brother and tries to protect Sansa while he is the sworn shield of Joffrey) even if he did things that we disapprove of. He has a story that explains his behavior and in the end if he sided with the Lannisters, particularly Joffrey ,Cersei and Tywin, it was above all to protect himself from his mad brother. Sandor also knows how to show great courage.

Criston Cole is the complete opposite, he is Rhaenyra's sworn shield but betrays her. And let's not go over the reasons for the House Dragon series. He has been after her since she was 9 years old, especially since her mother died and Viserys is a kind of Titos 2.0 in his most absolute stupidity, so not very vigilant while any other sovereign would have seen the red flags concerning Cole directly , even the greens in particular Alicent doubt his ability to protect her (I think Cole started to be after Rhaenyra after the death of her mother because he saw a golden opportunity not only in the distress of the loss of a being expensive but also that since Aenma is no longer there, he could behave in a creepy way around Rhaenyra). Maybe he had an affair (which I think, Rhaenyra being isolated in my opinion knowing that Laenor and Laena lived far away, that she was now having problems in the relationship with Alicent and that Viserys was putting his head in the sand concerning the tensions between the Hightowers and the blacks) but I find him creepy, he reminds me of LittleFinger and in my opinion he was after her especially after hertitles. Even the Green supporters, particularly in the story of Septon Eustace, believe that he is the one who is most at fault in their ruptures. I think Cole mostly let go of Rhaenyra because she couldn't be as manipulative and idiotic as her father, which is bad for someone who has the same ambitions as LittleFinger. So even if we take into account the fact that he is angry only because she reject his propositon to run away with him, he killed Joffrey and it seems intentional to me in a tournament (besides the death of Joffrey and the fact that Cole hit Laenor with complete impunity is bad in story terms) in an act of both homophobia (where Sandor saved Loras Tyrell and seemed to not care that he was gay) and cowardice as he didn't attack Rhaenyra and Laenor (once again Sandor did not hesitate to face his brother; I doubt Cole could do the same thing against someone like the Mountain).

I don't want to spoil the rest for those who are going to see the series, so go ahead, light spoilers, but also where does the idea that he is loyal to Alicent come from? He saw correctly that he had a better chance of ascending with them than the blacks who would have rightly slammed the door in his face seeing how ambitious he was (we can blame Daemon for a lot of things but not be a Tytos 2.0 like his brother, don't forget Corlys and Rhaenys Velaryon, etc...) and what he would be ready to do in relation to unsuitable skills. I'll stop there in terms of spoilers. Finally, I feel like the House of Dragon series forgets the corruption system for knights in Westeros that Game of Thrones put in place regarding Cole's character.

To summarize, the writers totally messed up the parallel between Sandor and Cole. Sandor seen as ugly, repulsive, who rightly openly despises chivalry behaves in a more chivalrous manner than Cole who is seen as a handsome man and praised at first glance (when it is said that he represents both the best and the worst of the Kingsguard I agree with the worst but I really don't see where the best is) .

P.S: Don't worry, I will soon make a post against other characters like Aemond, Daemon and Otto Hightower which I dislike too...

I will wait until season 2 to do a detailed post on the feelings I had regarding Rhaenyra and Alicent.

[syndrossi]

so since Daemon will end up marrying Laena again and they will most likely have Baela and Rhaena again, i have to ask, will the girls also be twins?

i can just imagine westeros gossip flying “daemon targaryen has another set of twins!” what would everyone else’s reactions be?

daemon, thinking “huh, is it me or is it weird?”

otto finally happy there are SOME girls in the royal family (before remembering they’re daemon’s daughters and he’d rather cut his own hand off than let one of his girls marry into the hightowers)

rhaenys narrowing her eyes like dameon does, “huh, is it him or is it weird?”

what would VISERYS’ reaction be? is his instinct to betroth the half-siblings bc he sees signs in it?

when daemon remarries to rhaenyra, everyone starts wondering if her next pregnancy will also be twins

ooh what about the boys? jon and rhaegar have little sisters and they immediately agree they must protect them at all costs

personally i’m fine with either the girls being twins as well or them being like a year or smth apart. the boys still gain little sisters!

Ah, but is that a given? Daemon is feeling both very contrary right now in regards to Viserys's command and also so worried about the boys that marriage is not something he particularly wants to think about. If not for Viserys's command, he wouldn't think about it at all, honestly. (Unless it's marriage to Rhaenyra, which isn't possible.)

He's in a very different place than canon!Daemon, who had fallen into irrelevance over the course of the Stepstones conflict, especially given the circumstances of his last banishment. That Daemon had no children, no prospects, no power--freeing Laena, daughter of one of his few allies/friends, from her Braavosi betrothed was pretty much his only option, and at age thirty-four, with no children of his own, he probably felt that biological clock ticking.

Resonant!Daemon meanwhile has two sons to build a relationship with, Viserys's favor (though it doesn't feel like it at times), a potential seat for Jon, and 99 problems named Allard, Crayne, Otto, the Stepstones, the Triarchy, or Volantis. The poor guy needs at least a year or two to even consider marriage as a thing he might want.

Whereas Resonant!Laena, now freed from her Braavosi betrothal, will have far more pressure on her from her parents to wed and have a few children, ideally a girl or two, so that they can betroth one to Luke (as the likely heir to Driftmark after Laenor).

Like, Corlys and Rhaenys would love a match between her and Daemon right now, and you can bet that Viserys spoke to Rhaenys about it the very next morning, but they're not going to wait around for him to change his mind, and Laena herself will want to have some agency in her match after the disaster that was her previous one.

We'll get Baela and Rhaena, but they may not be Daemon's.

That said, if Daemon manages to produce another set of twins, it'll probably be taken as a sign of--something. (And if Laena's twins aren't his, there may still be some suspicious eyes turned his way.)

And regardless, I think everyone will be watching Rhaenyra's first pregnancy after marrying Daemon with interest, curious if Daemon's just Like That (TM).

[littlewitchlilith]

New HOTD trailer, Here are my thoughts

1st. Daemon entering the throne room gives me Daenerys season 2 vision in the throne room for some weird reason.

2nd. CREGAN STARK CRUMBS, also Jace had a serious glow up. Also I really Hope we see Cregan use the ancient valyrian steel sword of stark Ice.

3rd. I find it interesting how nearly all Alicent's scenes in the trailers has her in serene areas or places of nature, maybe its just me but I seems like she's trying to hold on to the little girl she once was, she's trying to hold on to her former friendship with Rhaenyra. She's shown wearing a blue dress which gives me young Alicent.

4rth. I can't wait to see more Rhaenys and Nyra moments.

5th. I like the slight changes they are making with Aegon and Rhaenyra. They both seem more involved with the war and are clearly taking part in it. I like how they are making Aegon have more personality. Personally I always thought show Aegon was more observant

6th, I want to see Daemon and Rhaenys relationship. I want to see the relationship of all the Targaryens. Aemond and Aegon, Jace and Daemon, the twins. I literally can't wait to see how the war will affect their relationships.

7th DRAGONSSSSS. Also I was so confused when I saw Vermithor. I thought he was the cannibal because he didn't look like that in s1 in my opinion. Also Sunfyre and Moondancer my babies can't wait to see more dragons. Literally the real reason I started watching the show fr.

8th Otto saying that the great houses will support Aegon is so funny to me because most of them called in support of Rhaenyra.

9th. Daemon just being all "this is fun and games" about war in the trailer is interesting because we know Daemon lives in chaos and violence and I like how adaptable he is. Like he can live in war or in peace and still find enjoyment in life or have moments to have little laughs. I really hope we do get some happy or peaceful scenes in s2 despite the war going on. The good moments in these dark times kind of thing.

10th Can't wait to see the Velaryon fleet in action. I want to see Corlys taking command. After all he's known as the greatest seafarer. I want to see it in action not just hear it from other characters, also I can't wait for Corlys arc in the show, his relationship with Rhaenys, his grandchildren, Adam and Alyn how the show is going to play that out.

11th Is it just me or did they make the dragons bigger this season because Caraxes looks huge. In the "leader strong enough scene" I was like who's that until Caraxes moved and I was like NOODLE BOI but he just looked so much bigger than in Season 1, Sunfyre and Meleys and Vermithor also appear so much bigger than before, like we only see Sunfyre for a second but he seemed small, also Syrax and Seasmoke as well look like got growth spurts or something in the last trailers.

11th. It's sad that Rhaenyra has to ask Daemon if he sees her as the rightful ruler and I give me whiplash to when she asked Criston Cole if he believed the real would ever accept her as queen. I believe he said they will have to and it makes me curious to see what Daemon's response to her question is, because we know that Daemon did want the throne but he does still love his family and show Daemon is a lot less worse than book Daemon especially in regards to Rhaenyra but like his face when she asks him that question it seems to me like he's conflicted or even hesitant to answer her and I genuinely wonder why.

12th. Aemond. I'm curious what they are going to do with Aemond this season, He seems to be enjoying the war as a whole which makes sense given the fact that season gives subtle hints that he wants a more worthy opponent to fight than Criston Cole and he sees that with Daemon, like he seems a bit like his book version but I feel it's a facade he's putting on because he knows he's very much responsible for war for the pain and suffering his family is currently going through, he knocked over the dominos that Alicent and Otto set up. I think this facade will be his way of coping with that guilt, he's branded a kinslayer now and he's accepting it in his own way. I think his relationship with Alicent will come to light more, the two were close in the last season but the trailer hints that they've clearly become estranged, I feel like Alicent despite how angry she is at Aemond want to continue to cling to him and it's one of the reasons she wants the war to end not just her former friendship with Rhaenyra but because she doesn't want her children to die in what she deems a senseless war. Aemond however want to continue to fight he wants the chaos so him calling Alicent by her name instead of mother is interesting almost like he's trying to distance himself from her and evolve as his own person because it does seem like Alicent see's him as a mini version of herself, their does seem to be something parentification on her part towards him and I think he's slowly catching on to that. Idk like theirs so many opinions and ideas going on in my head regarding Aemond.

13th showings Aegon and Rhaenyra in grief at the same time is interesting to me because regarding of wether or not you support one or the other, they have so much in common. Take out every awful thing Aegon has done and everything he will do, they really aren't that different. Both grew up ignored and neglected by Viserys, young Rhaenyra points out that all Viserys wanted as she was growing up was a son, a male heir. When he gets Aegon his son, his male heir he blatantly ignores and neglects him and his siblings in favor of Rhaenyra. Both their mothers go through tremendous amounts of pain and suffering that they both have to be a witness or even aware of and it's seen as all for nothing, both lose everything during the war that everyone says is rightfully theirs, like we know for Aegon it wasn't true but tradition isn't something that is easy to break even now in our times we have our traditions and if someone comes in and tries to change them be react defensively. I don't support Aegon and I don't see him as the rightful king but he is an heir wether we like it or not, he's more the heir than Daemon or even Rhaenys is, personality has nothing to do with it if that was the case than Maegor wouldn't have been considered an heir either. Both Rhaenyra and Aegon are basically one in the same.

14th mysaria herself is someone who intrigues me I'm curious of what her role will be this season because we know she helped put Aegon on the throne last season by handing Aegon over but she does have a former relationship with Daemon.

15th "War is coming and neither of us may win" is such foreshadowing because regarding of wether you are team black or team green no one really wins because yes Rhaenyra's line does continue the Targaryen line but she goes down in history as a usurper despite her being the named heir by the king and while Aegon lives longer than Rhaenyra, he's still killed shortly after by his own men and is succeeded by Rhaenyra's son. Still both lose everything by the time of their deaths and are half the shells of the people they once were.

[backjustforberena]

Hi! I recently read your post where you say that Steve didn't have any info about the Hull Boys and I'm shocked. I don't like show!Corlys but I feel like it's deeply unjust for the character that the writers didn't clarify this issue. I really hope the next season addresses this by introducing Marilda, at least for a few scenes, so we can understand why show!Corlys would betray Rhaenys for so long with the same woman. I need answers, especially because aging up Alyn and Addam seems to push the timeline of the betrayal closer to when Rhaenys loses the crown. Whether intentional or not, this shift makes the betrayal feel even more deplorable.

Hello! Yes, I'm afraid I'm probably going to have to burst your bubble just that little bit more. I don't believe we'll be getting Marilda of Hull. I think that the (excuse the pun) ship has sailed, and, not only that, but the show has implied that Marilda is dead. Or, at least, the mother of Alyn and Addam is dead, as we have no name to give her within the show's canon.

I've come to that conclusion based off of a few things. It's probably easier and neater for the story not to have another character be introduced (I say this whilst also very much acknowledging that removing the one other person who could give this affair context is a mistake) - and it's likely one of the reasons the boys were aged up in the first place.

One of the major things that Marilda does is bring her boys to the court to become Dragonseeds. This, obviously, hasn't been done and the show has gone in a different direction. Alyn and Addam are grown, so they don't "need" their mother the same way that their characters would do if they were teenagers. It also makes it easier to illustrate the bond between brothers if you make them the sole companions of the other so that that is the priority for each of them, but especially Alyn, who is now the older brother. Removing the mother also makes it easier to have scenes with Corlys and show that dynamic without interference.

Then there are the implications within the show itself. Rather than living as a son of a woman with her own company, Alyn speaks of a life working, basically, hand-to-mouth from a young age. They live in poverty, essentially. He also asks Corlys what he knows of "grief", which implies Alyn's own awareness and experience of grief. This could be grief over his father's actions and mourning a relationship that could have been. But more than likely it is in regards to his mother. The other clue we have is when Rhaenyra asks Addam about his parentage. He answers:

"My mother was a shipwright. My father is… no one of consequence."

Addam refers to his father (Corlys) using present tense, but mother in past. There's also no maternal influence shown in the home, where we see Alyn and Addam live (though, granted, there's no requirement for them to live with their mother at all) and Addam seems to have the typically feminine tasks down pat, such as cooking.

Without the presence of the mother, I doubt we'll get answers. There seems to be little effort in giving the actors answers, and if we take away the chance of Corlys speaking to the mother, then there are no other (in my mind) characters to which Corlys could divulge this information. There's no one he's close enough to open up to. The only slim possibility is Alyn but certainly not as the relationship stands at the moment. There could have been Rhaenys, had she not died, but she did.

Again, as I've said before, I'm unwilling to speculate on what might make this betrayal more or less deplorable or more or less understandable. Again, without knowing the ages of the boys or the circumstances surrounding or prior to or after the Great Council, it's really tricky to know or judge, and we also don't know how much we can apply book canon to show canon either.

It could be a response to losing the Crown or it could be a response to Rhaenys's distress or it could be nothing to do with any of it. We don't know. You say "betray Rhaenys for so long with the same woman" when, for all we know, it was a relationship that lasted long enough to produce children, with nothing in between. We don't know what it was. Where it was. When it was. How it was. Literally, all options are on the table. Especially with the way this show treats the timeline.

Without anything concrete, there really is nothing to go off of, and that's why we get quotes like this, from Steve:

I am still working through it as to trying to find the reasoning behind it because exactly what you said is what I said… My thing was, “OK, yeah, one child. OK, great. He’s a sailor, blah, blah, blah. But he then goes back and has another child, so what’s that? … So, I am still trying to find the way through it.

How that [relationship] ended, I don’t know. That would be interesting; did she [the mother] go away, is she still alive? I certainly don’t know. When I spoke to Claire [Kilner] or Alan [Taylor] our directors about it, they weren’t sure either.

Steve didn't know until he read the scripts: he hadn't read the book, he wasn't told beforehand, and neither he nor Eve knew anything during filming and promoting Season 01. Steve has no information, that we know of, other than what is in the scripts and, provided no scenes were cut, that is the exact same information that we have as an audience.

[rhaenin-writing-time]

I have no idea if you’re still looking over comments for your outline, but I love what you’ve currently put up so far. Aemond as a certified parentified momma’s boy while trying to also not be with his mom is forever hilarious. You’ve absolutely nailed his character (it’s almost eerie how exactly you got his mommy issues/personality down, his “I regret that business with Luke” in the latest episode was such an Alicent moment).

For the falcon’s shadow, I know that’s supposed to reference Aemma, but does it/will it have any connection to Jace as well in his bird costume? Cause the Lost in the Dark section, with “too many kinds of light” makes it seem as if he might be in the same dream that Jace and Aegon were in. But Aemond also seems too disconnected from (or maybe stiff towards) his Valyrian side to really join them.

I do love the part about Dreamfyre and how Aemond views effort spent towards being respectful of dragons and customs around them as frivolous. The set up of showing how Aemond clearly has no real care or understanding for Valyrian culture - except when he ��wants the kind of power and influence that is specific to Targaryens” - that will eventually lead him to essentially ‘forcing’ a bond with Vhagar without any comprehension of how dragons are their own beings, not just a simple extension of the rider, is great.

Do you know if you’re planning to add any disconnected relationship between Rhaenys and Laenor? Cause while Corlys is obviously more unaccepting of Laenor’s homosexuality, I feel like his acceptance with Laenor’s children probably helped a little bit (at least when Luke takes Corlys’ attention by liking girls). But Rhaenys’ lack of acceptance for his children, simply because they’re not related biologically, must have caused a rift. Cause her acceptance of his homosexuality in the show feels like the very shallow acceptance in real life of tolerating the idea of being gay, yet not acknowledging any of the actual consequences of being such.

You mentioned in your latest post that you expected the arc to only be about 5 chapters, do you mean the whole section of “under the Dragon’s eye”, or just “Dark Nightmare of the Soul”? I’m a bit confused.

For your fic in general: do you know where the chapter scene of Rhaena ‘poisoning’ Daemon went? I haven’t been able to find it anywhere since your story was reorganized. And do you plan to include any of season 2 for your story, or has the characterization not really changed anything for you? (Honestly, the only real change to me seems like Alicent and Aemond have gotten way more Catholic - their weird “if I’m feeling guilty then I’m forgiven” was so bad).

Forever going to love your story, genuinely one of the best fanfics I’ve read.

Haha yeah I don't know how some people were so surprised about Aemond, I thought he was pretty clear cut. Fortunately for us, and Rhaenyra, he got his coddling fix when Baela sent him running home crying into his mother's arms. so Rhaenyra's safe for the time being. Now he wants to feel like a MAN.

When I say "this arc" I mean going back to fire and ice packs lol. I really underestimated how much I'd need to include to believably (at least I hope) establish a lot of new status quo's that are wildly divergent from show or book, especially regarding Rhaenyra and her siblings. And I ended up moving a lot up from later parts to avoid repetition later on in this fic. But if you look back at the outline you'll see that I colored the part that were currently in red, because we are almost done this arc. Rhaenyra soon faces the "final boss" and the revelation, and then... time and PEOPLE start moving.

Rhaena poisons Daemon in "Never get involved in a land war in essos part 2. I just split the chapter up because it was relatively long compared to the chapters around it.

Idk Aemond and Alicent have always seemed super catholic to me. I'm not going to take any extra steps to accommodate season 2, and I'm definitely leaving out Alicent/Cole because 1. It simply wasn't earned after they cut so much of that thread from the first season and 2. It's far too "modern" Catholic of BOTH of them. These are medieval Catholic extremists who are perfectly capable of getting off on the superiority of their own celibacy and "courtly love." And I'm not saying it couldn't be a reasonable turn for the characters, but they needed to show the journey. And they didn't. So it just feels kind of cheap and like the writers don't understand the world these characters are operating in, or their specific place in it.

Anyways, chapter coming. I promise. Life is weird and also writing has gotten more difficult/complex for a variety of reasons.

[mesillusionssousecstasy]

House of the Dragon 2x01 : Review

First of all, sorry to deliver this review a bit late (one day after and not the same day) than two years ago. I have a full time job and unfortunately, I cannot wake up in the middle of the night (5am) than sleep even less.

Anyway. Here's my review.

It's seems that this season will be less exciting (not the same) than season one has we already know the outcome / the end.

The introduction with the embroidery is very nice, but I think I prefer the introduction with the blood during season one. But the embroidery is incredible.

Also, the landscapes, especially the one from the first scene, are incredible too.

I don't think I would have opened with the north, knowing that the scene was so short and we couldn't even have a glance of Winterfall. It seems that Jacaerys was only there for a day.

At least, it's confirmed that Dragons cannot cross the wall!

Sorry, but I love Prince Daemon. I really don't think that he is a bad characters, yes he has many flaws, but I really think he is driven by blood, dragon and honour.

What happened to Corlys Velaryon? Where was he injured? Also it seems that this dagger is important.

I love the way Helaena plays. But I would have thought that they would give us a hint between her and Aemond.

WTF Alicent! You are a fucking hypocrite. Both of them, her and Ser Criston Cole. Doing the same thing as they blamed Rhaenyra for doing it. Parallel with season one and Sir Cole's white cloak. Rhaenyra brings down the white cloak as Alicent brings up the white cloak.

The edit and the camera corners are incredible. Everything is in the detail.

Is Aegon crazy (scene at the grand conseil)? No, I think he is just stupid and too much spoiled.

I don't believe and I can't imagine Rhaenyra has the type of a crying lady. I see her as a strong woman, not a weak one.

There was one correct thing coming from Aegon's mouth! The most important scene for this episode : "Our victory depends on the efforts of the smallfolk."

Larys Strong is still plotting (nothing knew here).

Otto is still a cautious and smart man.

I like the return of the White Worm. And no, Daemon is not using her as a lover on the side.

Erryk said something very truth to Daemon during their conversation: "Arryk and I were named to the Kingsguard at just 8 and 10. And we swore the same oath: to defend the whole of the royal family. So what were we to do when they turned against one another?

Interesting relationship between Daemon and Rhaenyra? Can they feel each other? Can they communicate with each another? I never saw them connecting the way they did in this episode. There was love definitively.

The camera's way of shooting is incredible.

I don't think that this Rhaenyra is very realistic.

I didn't know that Daemon found a way to get inside King's Landing.

Daemon Targaryen is such an interesting character.

I laughed when Ser Cole was talking about himself, instead of Rhaenyra.

There was something Foreshadowing when Otto talked to Aemond.

The scenery is incredible too.

I love the way it's filmed.

It was incredible for Blood and Cheese to pass in front of Aegon without him and his friends knowing.

There was something very out of place with the statue of King Viserys.

Poor dog!

Is the symbol of rats important? What does it mean?

Foreshadowing regarding the drawing on the wall!!! I really hope it wasn't for Daenerys. It was clearly a dragon burning King's Landing. What wasn't we seen this during season one?

Blood and cheese was very well done, even if I preferred the version in the book.

Helaena doesn't have three children? I thought it was between the big and the small one. Also why the Queen is alone?

And it was even worse when Helaena caught her mother in the act. Nevertheless, I thought that she would take refuge at Aemond's side.

I liked the last scene of the show (meaning) : Alicent's face.

Finally, Daemon truly loves Rhaenyra. There is not question there / about it. There is definitively something there. He did what he did because his wife, his Queen demanded of him. It seems that they are connected in some way.

Good night.

[navree]

the fact that we all watched a black man (vaemond) be extrajudicially murdered by a white man (daemon) in full view of the entire court, and not a damn thing was said by so-called fans and critics regarding the optics of that scene left me totally appalled. like, how can they all just sit down and have dinner after that bullshit? baela, who has no doubt been around her great-uncle for like 6-10 years during the timeskip has no thoughts or feelings of discomfort about witnessing him just cease to exist before her very eyes? why aren't she and rhaena with rhaenys watching his body be prepared to go back home or even discussing what the repercussion of this are going to be???

Some of it is just bad writing (it should not be possible for the king's brother to lop someone's head off in open court without trial for no reason without there being some repercussions), like Rhaenys being on board with the betrothals of her granddaughters to the Strongs, or even Baela being on board with it, seeing as again she doesn't know Jace at all and has been around Rhaenys (and yeah, presumably Vaemond) consistently for a decade at this point*. And Baela (and to a lesser extent Rhaena) should not be fully on board with just sitting down and eating with Daemon after that, and should at least have some pause with Daemon in general given that he's just shown himself to be an unhinged psychotic killer. That's bad writing, which would exist regardless of the characters involved.

But when it comes to things outside the writing, like fan and critic reception, then yeah it's a bit skeevy. Again, I'm likely not the best person to speak on this, I'm not Black, but considering that this fandom has a real problem with blood supremacy talk (some of the more virulent Team Black people really need to check themselves with the way they talk about blood purity and pure genetics, it's getting a bit German), people just going "yass king!" about Daemon murdering Vaemond doesn't entirely sit right. Vaemond is in the objective right in 1x08, Lucerys has no legitimate claim to Driftmark and everyone knows it, it should pass to Baela or even Rhaena and it is fair of him to bring this up with the closest legal authority he has, the Crown. He's an absolute asshole about it, calling Rhaenyra misogynistic slurs that aren't even accurate (she had a committed long term relationship with a man she wanted that was entirely consensual, and even with the approval of her husband though Vaemond doesn't know that, calling her a "whore" is uncalled for and vile), but him understanding Punnett squares isn't a sin. The show has made it plain the Strongs are Strongs, Vaemond is right, so him being murdered for it isn't a slay (especially given the historical trend of Black men being extrajudicially murdered by white men based on false allegations and untruths by other white people).

And writing wise, yeah, there's something that stinks in the lack of care that's given to the interiority of the Black characters. I've said this before, that Baela and Rhaena were basically not given any characterization at all in season 1 and that Corlys's character writing was really schizophrenic, and it does feel a bit iffy considering that, again, these are our only main characters of color. It speaks to a broader issue in the writing of the Velaryons in general that was really emblematic in season 1 Baela and Rhaena, that there was an extreme lack of care in crafting anything for characters you knew, and given that the decision to make the Velaryons Black was done pretty early on, hmmm suspicious. Maybe it wouldn't be much of an issue if they hadn't, but they did; they made the Velaryons Black and then chose not to put any effort into writing them cohesively, coherently, or even at all. And that doesn't sit right.

*I'm assuming they're retconning the second time skip into a full ten years because again, based on the timeline the show gave originally, the second time skip should have been only six years, but then everyone made fun of them for saying Ewan Mitchell was a sixteen year old and also the compression of the timeline in general so they padded it out.

[alicent-apologist]

Hey. I saw your answered post about requests. I loved how you wrote all the different women in The Targaryen Do, specifically Alicent, Helaena, Camyla, and even Rhaenyra. I also really liked how you went into the lore/history of House Baratheon and Camlya’s relationship with her house. I was wondering if you’d ever consider writing a fic where Laena marries Viserys and how that would change things. The Velaryons are such an interesting house and the characters have so much potential but they make awful choices in the show (specifically their loyalty regarding the Black Faction after so many insults). I know you’re really busy with The Targaryen Doe series but I’d really love to read your take on this after your finished or when you have free time.

Thank you so much!

I'm currently re-writing 'Something's Coming' so I definitely don't have time to write something like that at the moment but it's a really good prompt for the future!

But God knows when that would be so I have some thoughts just for now:

- Viserys would not give up the comfort Alicent brought him, especially if he's married to a 12 year old girl so I think the nighttime visits would continue and Alicent would hate them so much. Maybe Viserys goes as far as to make her his mistress? Or does Otto finally step in?

- At this point, Laena hasn't claimed Vhagar yet. I don't think Viserys is clever enough to stop her from doing so but Otto and maybe even Daemon would not want this happening. It completely shifts the power to the Velaryons, who would have Vhagar, Meleys and Seasmoke while the Targaryen line only has Syrax and Caraxes. Reluctant allies Otto and Daemon? It'd be hard to know who hates it more honestly 😂

- The Velaryons are definitely more sea-orientated than dragon-orientated and it'd be really cool to see the differences and similarities between them. The Velaryons left way before the Doom because they were second-class citizens in Valyria. While they do spout the whole Valyrian supremacy stuff as the Targaryens, they are more lowkey about it. Although they're natural allies in Westeros, there's probably some deep seated resentment there. After all, compared to the Targaryens they are second class citizens in the land that they went to to escape dragon-riders.

- Alicent and Rhaenyra's relationship remains strong (until Rhaenyra finds out about the late night visits) but is there a growing distance between them? Alicent sees Rhaenyra be doted on and have freedom she would never have while she has become the King's secret. Would Rhaenyra take Alicent's side over her father's? I would need to check to see the state of Rhaenyra and Viserys' relationship at this point but a lot of Viserys' indulgence of Rhaenyra (at least at the beginning) came from Alicent. How does her not being involved affect Rhaenyra and Viserys' relationship?

- Laena! Lovely Laena who is only twelve and has to leave her family behind to marry a man as old as her father who is already starting down the path of lifelong illness. She has her father there with her, but like Alicent, she has a father who is more concerned with power and legacy than her emotional wellbeing. Rhaenys said that Viserys would have to wait until Laena was 14 to bed her (🤮) but Viserys and Aemma consumated their marriage when Aemaa was only 13 (🤮🤮). And that's two years where the marriage could be annuled due to non-consumation. Is Corlys willing to risk it? Is Rhaenys around to look after Laena or does she have to go to Driftmark? What does Laenor do? They are clearly close but he has to learn how to rule Driftmark does he not? Laena is only 12, does she know how to deal with the court?

- I think Rhaenyra was always going to have issue with Viserys remarrying but she does like Laena and maybe her being so young means that her ire shifts towards Viserys and not his wife. Maybe Alicent and Rhaenyra take Laena under their wing (ideal scenario). Alicent teaches her how to survive in court while Rhaenyra nourishes Laena's wildness so it's not stifled.

- Alicent needs to marry - does she have to leave King's Landing? She's the daughter of a second son but her father is the Hand of the King, she definitely has prospects (ideal scenario, she marries someone kind and gentle who loves her)

- Rhaenyra needs to marry and now she won't have to marry Laenor. If Viserys has even one functioning brain cell he won't let Daemon marry her but we know that he was strong-armed into marrying Laena. Maybe he sees a match between Rhaenyra and Daemon (with Rhaenyra remaining the heir) a kind of 'fuck you' to the Velaryons?

- And of course everything goes to shit if Laena and Viserys have a son - the Dance of the Dragons is completely inevitable is Viserys lets his guilt rule him (and he will) and keeps Rhaenyra as his heir

So yes! Much to think about!

[backjustforberena]

In a wide shot of the wake. Fleeting, but it's there. More interaction than Corlys has with either of his granddaughters.

And I totally get your point. I don't think the relationship she has with the boys is the same as with Baela and Rhaena. Given the relationship with Rhaenyra, it would be impossible. I do think she regards them as family, as much as Corlys. She gives them as reasons to join the war. She never calls them anything but Laenor's sons.

I don't think we've got cut and dry evidence on what the status quo of the relationship is like. Especially with the jumps, we're given very little on how Rhaenys has spent her time and she hasn't exchanged lines with any of the boys.

I think I just lean towards there being no evidence that she DOESN'T view them as family, even if that relationship is different than that with Baela and Rhaena. Everyone has favourites. Think about her relationship with Viserys vs Daemon.

rhaenys : purposefully ignores rhaenyra's sons at laena's funeral.

rhaenys : says she wants baela to be heir to driftmark because the strongs are bastards.

rhaenys : reluctantly agrees to support luke's claim in exchange for betrothing baela and rhaena to jace and luke & only speaks out for him when viserys - the king - (who has threatened to murder everyone who claims rhaenyra's sons are bastards) intervened in rhaenyra's favor.

TB : rhaenys loves & has accepted rhaenyra's sons as her grandsons.

[starkslydia]

even more thoughts on hotd 1x10 because YES i am that bitter — on daemon, rhaenyra and aemond

making it very clear that daemon is rhaenyra's safe place — that marrying him and raising their children together in dragonstone is the first time she's been truly happy since she was a child

making it very clear that daemon cannot hurt rhaenyra and truly loves her (the bridge scene from ep2, the brothel scene from ep4, everything that took place on ep7 and 8) — that they've both found happiness in each other

making it very clear that aemond wishes to get revenge on lucerys, that his hatred for his nephew is bigger than his morals —that given the chance he would hurt him to balance the scales in his view

yet, in a single episode they managed to ruin every bit of characterization (and don't get me started on the corlys / rhaenys scenes regarding rhaenyra or alicent being once again a poor victim with no capability for evil — even though she ordered the murder of dozens of servants last episode)

they make daemon choke rhaenyra out of nothing, he just grabs her neck when she tells him about the prophecy. he chokes rhaenyra, his niece, the love of his live, HIS WIFE — his wife who just went through a traumatic birth and who lost THEIR BABY.

then, she realizes he didn't know about the prophecy. she doesn't mention anything about the choking even though she's his wife and queen. and he leaves. next time we see them together in a scene is when daemon goes to tell her about lucerys' death. he holds her hands, walks her away from the rest, and tells her. he was choking her a few scenes back and now he's lovingly holding her (???) and rhaenyra has nothing to say about anything (???)

and aemond... LET HIM BE A KINSLAYER. he WANTED to hurt lucerys. he CHASED him. he mocked him, taunted him. wanted to see the FEAR in his eyes. and then... vhagar decides to ignore his commands and kills both arrax and lucerys? and he's upset about it? aemond being a kinslayer is what makes his character interesting. without that — what even is he? a loser with one eye who envies his brother and his crown? an all bark no bite character? what satisfaction are we supposed to get during the battle above the god's eye then?

in conclusion: fuck their writing ! # my daemon (and the daemon written by grrm and the daemon they wrote for nine fucking episodes) would NEVER hurt rhaenyra. rhaenyra DESERVES to have a loyal husband by her side especially now that she's lost two children. aemond IS a kinslayer! he's a bad guy! he will burn the riverlands out of fun! let him be evil and morally corrupted!

let evil characters be evil characters, let grey characters be grey characters and most importantly stop butchering characters and relationships for shock value

[targcrazies]

The Longstanding Wisdom of the Old CH4

Summary: It is 104 AC, a year since King Viserys ascended the Iron Throne. His younger brother, Prince Daemon, has just been widowed. Seeing an opportunity to build a profitable alliance, Lord Bartalos of the Reach, one of the few High Valyrian lords residing in Westeros, has proposed marriage of the Prince to Maera Bartalos, his older daughter. His son and heir to Highgarden, Myles Bartalos, is to join the City Watch.

Chapter 1 | Chapter 2 | Chapter 3 | Chapter 4 | Chapter 5 | Chapter 6 | Chapter 7 | Chapter 8 | Chapter 9

Maera looked at Myles’s face. His beautiful white face had gone pale, his round, lilac eyes staring at the Prince agape. In three years, it was the first time someone had confronted them regarding their discreet relationship. They had always basked in the knowledge that both of them were skilled at being furtive and no one would ever find out. How wrong they were, she thought, he probably saw right through it, his parents were siblings who were deeply in love and had married. It is not taboo to him, it is not a concept foreign, especially with two Valyrian siblings so very close.

“I really thought you were as innocent and “proper” as you led on, Lady Bartalos,” the Prince mused, “I’d not have believed it if I hadn't heard the… obscene noises with my own ears.” He pulled out a chair for him to sit upon, he sat with the hilt of the sword toward him, resting his chin onto his hands holding the sword. He looked at them, leering in triumph, the glint in his eyes strengthening with every passing second. “Might you wish to say something?”

Myles stood frozen at the spot, Maera took a few steps forward toward the Prince. “What do you want?” she finally spoke in question.

“What do I want?” he laughed, “I want absolutely nothing,” he proclaimed, “nothing at all. Nothing more than to see your Father dragged through the mud. That is all I want, my Lady.”

“Do you still bear him hate for what happened years ago, your Grace?” Maera asked, “You must understand, the situations were different. My brother had just been betrothed to Rhaenys Targaryen’s daughter. It is not unusual for one to support their ally.”

“And you want me to believe that he won’t always value that one alliance over any he might form with us?” Daemon sat up straight, “His son, his heir, is to wed the only daughter of Corlys Velaryon. Do you know who his heir shall marry one day?”

Maera did not have the answer to this, she stared at the Prince in hopes that she would not have to toil her mind away in pointless conjectures. “Princess Rhaenyra…” she heard her brother mutter behind her, turning around to face him as she held her ground.

“You are smarter than you let on, Ser Bartalos. Everyone plays charades here, I see, you two the most!” The Prince mused, leering at them.

“So you claim that if another succession crisis were to arise, given the Queen bears no sons, my Father would vouch for the Princess instead of you given my brother shall be the brother-in-law of the supposed King Consort?”

“Precisely,” the Prince said, “Your father is a true dragon, my Lady. He will ensure that he has made the most advantageous alliances. He wants to wed us to ensure power if I were to become King, and your brother to Laena if Rhaenyra inherits the throne. However, Rhaenyra stands little chance of inheriting the throne, as precedence has already been set regarding female heirs. Yet, if a crisis were to arise at all, he will call for the Velaryons.”

“Your judgment is based upon baseless presumption, your Grace,” Maera spat, “If my Father was really making alliances as you mention, then why not proposition my brother’s betrothal with the Princess?”

“Because, my father wants to carry on the lineage through our children. If I were to marry the Princess, it’d likely be a matrilineal marriage as she is the King’s only child.” Myles spoke again.

Maera turned to look at him again, “Why did you not tell me all this before?” she calmly interjected, watching as he got to his feet.

“Your little brother has some sort of learning disability and has a clubfoot. He does not rely on the child to carry on legacies.” the Prince reasoned further.

Myles gripped the air as he muttered, “Why are you telling us all this?”

“Because, earlier I thought she was too daft and you were too brash to understand any of this.” the Prince said.

“What makes you think we are any different now, your Grace?” Myles asked, breaking out of his trance and stepping closer to the Prince.

The Prince smirked, his eyes fixated upon the door, “I kept watching you two, the whole day. Not for once was I able to tell that the both of you were carrying on your little liaison.” he admitted, “I had only come here to talk to Lady Bartalos, I would have even let her summon her maid if needed.”

“What was so urgent that it could not wait until the morrow, your Grace?” Maera asked, folding her arms.

“It does not matter anymore,” he got up, making his way toward the door. He took out Myles’s slippers from within his cape, gesturing him to wear them, “Leaving these by the door is not exactly smart, now, is it? Ser Bartalos, you may wanna go back to your own chamber now. Lady Bartalos, I shall meet you at breakfast.”

Maera stepped in his way and looked him in the eyes, “Your Grace, I believe we can put our trust in you to not speak of this to anyone, especially our Father.”

He dug holes in her eyes, gazing back in fervour, “Not anytime soon, my Lady.”

“If you marry my sister,” Myles began, “I shall always be your ally, your Grace. I am to inherit my Father’s place and I shall make it so that we are on your side.”

Daemon laughed, “You’re shrewd, boy. Marrying off your lover to me, betraying your father-in-law’s faith. What else are you capable of doing, Ser?”

“Your Grace, I know exactly what I want.” Myles affirmed.

“And what if Corlys Velaryon demanded you swear fealty to his and his heir’s interests?”

“Your Grace,” Myles smiled, “I would lie.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maera was awoken in the morning from what she wished was a horrid nightmare. However, she looked at the empty jar of wine on the table, and it all sprung back to her. They had dug themselves a grave, she thought, he knew such slanderous a secret that it could ruin them. She was made to put on a white gown by her mother, a gown bespoke of her chastity and innocence, traits much preferred by men when in search of a wife. Maera spoke little, begrudgingly picturing the grin his face may elicit when he would realise the symbolism behind her gown. Her mother let her hair flow freely, smelling of smokey essential oils. Her ears were adorned with pearls and her neck was left bare. She wished she could tell her mother to stop, that none of it was of any use. He would not marry her because he did not trust her father.

Her mother coated her lips and cheeks with a pink rouge, “You look beautiful, little one,” she touched her daughter’s chin affectionately, “The Prince would be foolish to not see it.” Maera wished she could tell her mother that he was not foolish, and his not being foolish was exactly what would lead to the betrothal falling through. She eyed the bottle of incense her mother had lightly dabbed onto the napes of her neck, her wrists, and her bosom. What if the Prince tells them, she thought, Mother was amenable, could be made to understand, she deduced, but Father was a faithful follower of the Seven and he would be livid.

“Mother, I would like to speak to you.” better hear it from me than anyone else, she thought.

“Oh dear, we have not much time, must we speak now?”

She opened her mouth to beg her mother for some time to speak, however, she realised that she could not speak of this without her brother’s approval, “No Mother, we may speak later.”

When her mother and she got to the Grand Hall, everyone was present at the table. She sat beside her brother, who was engaged in a conversation with Lord Velaryon. Their father listened closely and their mother enquired after the Prince. The Prince smiled at her, greeted her with a very good morning, and his eyes bore on her as she sipped on her morning tea. He watched her as she excused her maid from wanting to lay out food on her platter, taking in bread, butter, and a generous serving of lemon cake herself. His smile widened when he realised that Maera was not sparing her brother a single glance.

It was only after breakfast that Maera looked at her brother intently, who returned her gaze and acknowledged whatever unsaid was communicated. Myles walked up to the Prince, his head slightly bent as he cleared his throat quietly, “Your Grace, might you spare us a minute of your precious time, in the gardens?”

The Prince conceded, he looked at the boy, then his sister. He thought she looked lovely that morning, especially with her face slightly mired with conflict and worry. The Prince led the way out to the gardens. He walked in calculated drag, taking in the bright early morning, quietly sniggering at the hushed conversation between the siblings. He only stopped and turned to look at them when they reached exactly where he had met her barely a day before.

After a good few minutes of silent staring and exchanges of stolen glances, it was Maera who spoke up, “Your Grace, we are thankful that you chose not to disclose anything to our parents.”

“Secrets are better left festering, sometimes they brew into something… useful, if time and opportunity permit.” The Prince smiled at the siblings and was glad to see that they had picked up what he meant.

Maera took a step toward the Prince, “Your Grace, we can be so useful for you,” she began, “Our father may have varied interests now, but once we vouch for you and lay our support for you, he won’t be able to do otherwise.”

“Your brother is betrothed to Laena Velaryon, how is that beneficial to us?”

Maera looked at her brother, then at the Prince, “Can the betrothal not fall through?” she asked, “Somehow, anyhow.”

“That’d only happen if the Sea Snake and your father were to have a falling out, I’m afraid.” The Prince admitted.

“That’s a farfetched idea, Laena shan’t be ready for marriage in another four or five years.” Myles interjected.

“Myles, she is twelve, she shall bleed soon. What if you are compelled to marry her then?” Maera reasoned.

“And how will you support me if your brother marries the sister of the boy who could have stolen my brother’s crown?” The Prince enquired.

Maera looked at the Prince, her brow furrowed, “Do you only think of extraneous ways of evading the obvious to reach your objective?”

The Prince raised his eyebrows, “Go on.”

“We can feign oblivious support for them while navigating your ascent to the throne, and my brother can be beneficial here, yes.” she began, “We do not have to outwardly make lofty claims which may lead to their losing faith in us. We can gain their faith and blindside them, your Grace.”

“That’s cowardly, my Lady.” The Prince objected, “Why shall I have to play pretend to gain what is mine?”

“Because men like Lord Velaryon and my father exist.” She reasoned, “What they aim for is not their birthright, they aim for it because they desire it. Their ambition justifies removing any prospective deterrent, here, you are the probable deterrent here. If you were to loudly state your case, they’d be aware and they’d surely plan accordingly.”

“So you’re suggesting we play pretend?” The Prince asked, his voice etched with annoyance.

“No, your Grace, not at all.” she smiled, “I am suggesting we play smart.”

—----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The scent of roasted veal with honeyed wine wafted through the air as Maera dragged her long cape through to the dining hall. Her maids followed closely behind, failing to keep up with her swift feet and keeping in mind not to step on the fabric. She was the first to arrive at the table, soon followed by her mother who was busy overlooking the arrangement. Myles soon followed, rushing through with a young boy he had mercifully taken in as a ward.

The Prince had only smiled as she had kept on about the advantages of quietly gearing toward one’s goal instead of grand announcements. He excused himself when she was done with her oration, leaving with a giggle under his breath. She was embarrassed but was hopeful that despite amusement, the Prince saw sense in her arguments. The Sea Snake arrived first, closely followed by her father, to the announcement that the Prince had asked them to begin their meal and he would join them shortly but surely. Anyone who knew her father could pick up the slight scoff he let out beneath his breath, easily ignorable otherwise.

The Prince only arrived when they were halfway through their meals. The Sea Snake and her father were engrossed in a hearty conversation, her Mother tending to all their needs graciously. Maera and her brother felt more at ease being together amongst others after the mishap of the previous night. Now, little did they fear the Prince’s appearance. If anything, they had grown to somewhat anticipate it. He only walked in when she felt her heart quicken at the thought of the Prince’s impudent smile, not the one that was condescending, but the one that was… in acknowledgment of her presence. The Prince may be trouble, a nuisance, but radiantly did he smile.

The party at the table stood as the Prince approached, unguarded and somewhat disheveled. He shot everyone a surprisingly cordial smile, “I apologise, I got occupied with a… business.” he sat down beside the Sea Snake, helping himself to generous portions of the food on the table. Everyone furtively watched as he gobbled up the food in untethered enthusiasm, stuffing his mouth just a grain away from spillage with every morsel.

Her father cleared his throat, “Your Grace, I hope you have found everything to your comfort.”

“Yes, yes, I have, Lord Bartalos. Many thanks!” he happily exclaimed, “The food is delicious here!” he lifted his goblet, cocking it at my Mother before taking a hefty sip.

“Yes, we have great cooks here.” Lord Bartalos informed, his eyes rolling backward ever-so-slightly, “Your Grace, you’ve gotten to know my elder daughter, Maera. She is smart, well-learned, young and beautiful.” As her father spoke of her, each word sounded like it ended in a question.

The Prince stared at the man who sat at the head of the table as if befuddled by a new proposition that made little sense. After a moment, he took another hefty sip of the wine, chewed the food in his mouth, and swallowed hard. His hands found the handkerchief and dabbed it on his lips swiftly, “Yes, I almost forgot!” he let out a loud laugh. “Thank you for the reminder, Lord Bartalos. Well, I’ve thought of it all night, I was thinking of it before I even got here.” he set the cutlery down on his plate, “I would be honoured to wed your daughter, my Lord.”

[moonlitgleek]

If all of Holster Tully's kids are born girls, does that change the dynamics of the Southern Ambitions plot? Cat is heir to Riverrun, would she be betrothed to Ned? Would Ned be fostered there instead with Jon Arryn? What does that mean in the aftermath of the war? Would Ned stay in the South (Benjen as Lord of Winterfell), does Cat go North, or does their marriage dissolve?

The dynamics wouldn’t change, only the matches would. A Cat-Ned match is one possibility, Lysa-Brandon is another, though perhaps Hoster’s preference of Jaime Lannister as a more advantageous match than a Stark would sway him towards the first match to save Lysa for Jaime.

In any case, I really don’t think that Ned would be fostered in Riverrun in the event of a betrothal between him and Cat. Note that Ned was fostered at 8 before any of the betrothals ever took shape in the minds of the elder generation of the SA. Rickard Stark and Hoster Tully might have already had plans for marital matches between the two houses, but it was impossible to decide on them at this point in time, when Minisa Whent was in all probability still alive and Hoster still had hopes for a male heir. More importantly, fostering Ned in Riverrun might be personally useful for him since it familiarizes him to Cat and the land he expected to be the lord consort of some day, but for Rickard, that would squander a golden opportunity for Ned to build personal relationships with Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon. Rickard got an alliance with Riverrun through the betrothal anyway so fostering Ned there would be redundant in terms of building alliances, and denying his house a guaranteed direct connection to Storm’s End and the Eyrie as early as 271, when any marital plans still had years to come to fruition and do its part in tying Winterfell to the other great houses, does not sound like something Rickard Stark would do. Rickard planned an alliance network that afforded him a central place in the coalition since it directly tied Winterfell to all three houses; passing on that, and especially on cultivating a bond that is, by and large, treated by Westerosi mores as being as important as blood relation between his son and Robert Baratheon, especially at a time when Steffon was still alive and the possibility of a betrothal between Robert and Lyanna was still in the air, doesn’t fall in line with his plans. Why pass on on that assured double alliance that would also increase the possibility of Robert leaning towards the Starks as the family of his beloved foster brother, making a match with Lyanna seem like a natural choice?

But what’s really interesting here is how a match between Ned and Cat might affect the location of the characters when Rhaegar disappears with Lyanna. If it’s Ned who was getting married, chances are that Robert and Jon Arryn would be present for the wedding. More importantly, that could mean that Brandon would be a part of the wedding party coming from Winterfell, or if he was a part of his brother’s wedding entourage, he’d have Ned with him when they receive the news about Lyanna. If Brandon was with Rickard, the Lord of Winterfell wouldn’t let his reckless heir go anywhere near the capital. If he was with Ned, could the more rational brother convince his wolf-blooded sibling that riding to the capital was a bad idea? Could he convince Robert, equally reckless and tempestuous as Brandon, not to seek a confrontation with Rhaegar? Would Jon Arryn, if he was already at Riverrun, try to control when and how the news reached his foster sons, knowing of Robert’s temperament? Would he take measures to ensure that his foster sons and his nephew don’t do anything stupid? I mean, he sure isn’t going to sit quietly while an entourage that has, at least, one of his foster sons and his heir ride to confront the crown prince in the dragon’s den, and a comment about noble fools isn’t going to cut it. Some of the possible scenarios might actually change the course of the narrative completely.

But if everything goes as it does in canon, or Rickard and Brandon are killed in any different way making Ned the lord of Winterfell, I imagine there would be a fair amount of dithering on the matter of inheritance, but I’m confident in saying Ned would not be staying in the south. For one, the patriarchy makes it far more likely for the female heiress to be the one accompanying her husband (indeed, Brienne had every expectation that upon her marriage to a younger son of Lord Caron, she’d live and raise her children at Nightsong, even though Brienne was the heiress of Tarth while her one-time betrothed wasn’t even the heir of his house. That Brienne had that expectation in the first place is telling of the restrictions patriarchal Westeros imposes on women and how they are expected to follow their husbands). She would even be the one to renounce her inheritance if it came to a choice between his lordship and her ladyship, as Lady Rohanne Webber did in giving up Coldmoat when she married Gerold Lannister, though that had its special circumstances. More significant to the discussion, perhaps, is the fact that Ned was already the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, while Cat was only the heir to Riverrun. There was no pressing reason for her to remain in the Riverlands or any argument for Ned to stay when he had his own kingdom to rule. To add, House Stark had suffered quite the diminishing hit in the rebellion and dwindled to Ned and the 15-year-old-or-younger Ben, which was made worse when Ben decided to take the black soon after the war, while the Tullys were fairly secure, with three heiresses to Hoster and Ser Brynden besides. Leaving a North that had just lost its ruler and his heir and a few thousand men in the hands of a castellan and a teenager who hadn’t yet reached his majority so that the lord could stay with his southron wife (oh, how the Northmen would have loved that) and not even help her rule because she wasn’t ruling yet, is a monumentally awful idea. On a personal level, there is also Ned’s trauma and the fact that he did not want to stay in the south after the rebellion to account for. The guy just wanted to go home and mourn his family. And we can’t disregard how Jon Snow and Ned’s desire to raise him in Winterfell factored into any decision he made. In short, Ned had every reason, whether personal, social or political, to take up his place in Winterfell and try to rebuild his shattered reality.

Of course, Ned’s new position introduces a quandary with regards to the inheritance of the two houses, but if the historical model of Rhaenyra Targaryen and Laenor Velaryon is anything to go by, a solution exists. To explain, Rhaenyra was the Princess of Dragonstone and Laenor the heir to Driftmark when they wed and after Laenor’s death, Rhaenyra urged Laenor’s father Lord Corlys to name “their” second son Lucerys as the new heir to Driftmark since first son Jacaerys was expected to succeed her to the throne, meaning that her inheritance would have passed to first son Jace and her husband’s to second son Luke. Rhaenyra’s example shows that splitting the inheritance of the parents between their sons is a possibility, one that would nicely solve the dynastic dilemma of heir-heir (or heir-lord in Cat and Ned’s case) marriage. To that effect, the question of inheritance would be settled by Robb succeeding his father and getting Winterfell, and Bran being acknowledged as heir to Riverrun.