#hotd critical

[rhaenin-time]

Benevolent misogyny is claiming, "You can't blame Alicent for her primary role in starting a war, because she was commanded and manipulated by her father," while replying to people pointing out that she spent almost 20 years as adult — including 10 entirely without Otto — turning her sons against Rhaenyra, enabling Aegon, and letting Aemond think he was entirely the one done wrong by with, "It's sexist to blame Alicent for Aegon and Aemond's behaviour when they're adults who made their own choices."

Which one is it?

[ride-thedragon]

"Hotd costume design was fine, you can't still be angry."

This is how they had Laena and Her daughters dressed in ESSOS?!

It's not the worst thing in the world, and thankfully, face cards carry house Velartarg, but the language of Essos isn't communicated. You can make the arguement that Laena wants them to feel like Westeros girls but that doesn't make sense because Daemon says their home is in Pentos sho to communicate that, them looking Pentoshi or calling back to Daenerys fashion in Essos would make the most sense for this disconnect and establish Essos at this point in history.

Rip Dany and Missandei. Mothers didn't live and die by the cloth to be represented in this light.

[spacerockfloater]

Cersei Lannister & Rhaenyra Targaryen:

Are forced to marry someone they don’t love, so they find solace in the arms of a family member and commit incest

Seduce members of the Royal Guard

Have their husbands murdered because they didn’t like them

Have three bastard kids

Commit atrocities to claim the Iron Throne

Betray their allies when they feel threatened

Rule with fire and blood

Live in constant paranoia so they murder innocent servants whom they believe will betray them, even if said betrayal would be a direct consequence of the way they treat their subjects

Are hated by the people

and lets us not forget the -

But no, please go ahead and tell me all about how Rhaenyra is this feminist icon who has the divine right to rule over hundreds of thousands of people because her daddy said so, therefore if I don’t support her I’m a misogynist.

[green-aeggs-and-spam]

Reasons a lord might support the Greens, other than "I Hate Women."

"A king is not above the law, and declaring an heir is not enough to supersede tradition."

"My liege lord supports the Greens, and it's safer for me to follow their lead."

"Under no circumstances should Daemon Targaryen ever become king, not even King Consort."

"My father swore that oath, not me, and I'm not bound by it."

"I have an elder sister and a bastard brother, and I don't want them thinking they have a right to my lands and titles."

"If Rhaenyra becomes queen, we'll have another succession crisis between her sons after she dies."

"It's wrong to deny a firstborn son his inheritance."

"This other lord that I don't like is supporting the Blacks, and I oppose him on principle."

"Aegon has an experienced Small Council who have been ruling for years. I prefer that stability over a bunch of newcomers."

"Rhaenyra is willing to commit treason for her baseborn sons and have her husband murdered, I could never trust her as queen."

"The Greens already have control of King's Landing, might as well sign up with the winning side."

"I'm more scared of Vhagar than I am of Caraxes."

Are all of these necessarily true? No. Are some of them still motivated by sexism? Absolutely. But with only the information that's available to a lord in Westeros, these are all pretty reasonable takes, and I think it makes for a better story when the morality isn't black and white.

[kataraavatara]

i’ll never forgive the hotd writers for benching laena in order to make rhaenyra look bad. RHAENYRA & LAENA made the Jace/Baela and Luke/Rhaena betrothals, not Rhaenys. Rhaenys was never involved. But instead we get Rhaenyra making this desperate last attempt to secure Rhaenys’s support at the when Luke’s inheritance is about to be taken away. No, Laena went to her grave with the expectation that her daughters would be Queen Consort of the Seven Kingdoms and Lady of Driftmark because of the matchmaking she did. Not Daemon. Not Rhaenys. Her.

[mejcinta]

The more script leaks and news of cut scenes we get, the sicker I become. Because what do you mean such weighty scenes delving deeper into characters and their relationships with each other were removed? Scenes that would make all of us more invested in these characters and their relationships??? Alicent voicing her clear powerlessness against her forced marriage to Viserys, Rhaenyra being willing to wield her power to save her (while cruelly but also understandably doubting Alicent's virtue in the matter with Viserys)? Rhaenyra and Alicent reaching a sorrowful resignation to their fate while preparing for the wedding? Harwin rowdily and tactlessly defending Larys from a bully while Larys begrudges him for drawing attention, showing the latter's desire to not be perceived and to maintain an agreeable public/political presence? Baela convincing Rhaenys to join Rhaenyra in the war, appealing to what Laena would have done and who she was? Are you fucking kidding me???? Why did the producers cut these meaty informative scenes and keep some rather empty, indulgent and unnecessary ones like the Larys foot scene??? What happened to insightful storytelling???

[thesunfyre4446]

honestly, my main beef with rhaenyra is that she's boring. i don't hate her, hell, i don't even dislike her, she's just meh.

there's no inner conflict, no arc. there's nothing interesting about her character for me to get invested in. even during ep 10, when she finds out aegon is crowned king her reaction was so mellow. like girl why are you not ANGRY?

and she stays the same, there isn't any character growth (positive or negative). hate her or love her, alicent's character changed during s1. she had an interesting arc.

idk, what do you guys think?

[very-straight-blog]

I swear I love how insane the ratio of the ages of the actors and the ages of the characters in this series is. For example, we have the third episode, where Rhaenyra is 17 and Aegon is 2 - everything is fine, they look like they should. And now let's look at the eighth episode, where another timeskip takes place and BOOM - everyone starts to look the same age, because Tom Glynn-Carney was 26 back then, Ewan Mitchell was 24, Olivia Cooke was 28, and Emma D'arcy were 29. And it's hilarious that almost all the characters literally turned into different people in ten episodes, but Daemon Targaryen, played by Matt Smith, has not aged a day. Chaotic.

[alicentsultana]

Alicent, the terrible mother

Like all mothers that can't treat her children in the same way.

Aegon looks so much like her, so she is harsh and stern, as she tries to prevent him from being what she once was or something that will only harm him. She doesn't know what to do with him, nobody told her what to do with it.

Helaena is unreachable. So she tiptoes around her and doesn't quite know how to reach her in a way she will receive and understand, in a way she will accept.

Aemond... he have everything she wanted to cultivate in her and her other children, but he sometimes do things she cannot control, it frightens her.

Daeron sweet Daeron. You climb tries and jump from high places, when are you going to stop giving your mother a heart attack? When are you going to come back and be just a baby again? When will they let her take care of you again?

Every slap, every tear, every scream, every desperate action. She did out of love, out of the need to protect and guard. It has intent, though it can be wrong and a mistake sometimes.

Parenting is trial, there is wrongs and rights. There is love and interest.

Each child is different, each one needs and receives something different. It's easier to show her love for ones, difficult to show her love for others.

You can clearly see who loves, you can clearly see who only have interest. You can clearly see who only have hatred.

Alicent is a successful parent. She nurtured as she could, she fought and fights as she can. Because if she doesn't, nobody will, not for her or for them.

You can critique parenting styles and it's effectiviness, but don't say there isn't love there.

Do you love me?

You imbecile.

[2rats1gogh]

Anyone else notice how only Rhaenyra is shown to be a loving mother but not Alicent and Helaena?

Emma’s first scene of Rhaenyra giving birth, Olivia’s is Alicent being the cruel stepmother who forces Joffrey be bought to her immediately. For extra points they even have Rhaenyra leave a trail of blood just to show how evil Alicent is.

Rhaenyra is constantly kissing and showing affection to her sons. Alicent’s only scenes with Aegon is her berating him and Helaena recoils from her touch. All to show Rhaenyra’s the perfect mother with perfect sons whilst Alicent’s a mess just like her kids.

We have a scene where Rhaenyra happily introduces her youngest two to Viserys, she’s cuddling them and smiling with her father. Meanwhile the show doesn’t even tell us Jaehaera and Jaehaerys’ names, Helaena doesn’t even hold them, no one else acknowledges them. Just so we don’t feel too sad about Blood & Cheese.

I noticed it too and it angers me a lot. It’s such a shame we didn’t get to see team green just being a family that acts like one.

When my grandma was watching the show she didn’t even realize that the twins were supposed to be a boy and a girl.

It’s like the creators can’t write a single scene where the greens are showing love and emotions, especially the two mothers, Alicent and Helaena. Almost as if they’re afraid we are going to sympathize with them. I know that both were technically forced to have children, but that doesn’t mean in any way that they didn’t love them and that they were bad mothers, especially Helaena??

ugh it makes me so mad

[rhaenin-time]

Daenerys and Rhaenyra are among the most "sociological" characters who are emblematic of the social movements and attitudes around them, which is why it's so infuriating that it's their actions that are picked apart the most in a quest to define them by both real and imagined individualized "personal failings".

[starlight95tonight]

I will never forgive hbo for not giving us a birth scene with alicent. The show gives us many birth scenes which help humanize a lot of characters but they don't do this at all with alicent.

We could have gotten a scene of aegon's birth. His birth literally changes so much and affects so many people. He is the son the king always wanted and the son he killed his previous wife for, he is the prince so many people were waiting for, he is the threat to rhaenyra's claim, his birth marks an end of alicent and rhaenyra's friendship, he marks the end of his mother's innocence, and his birth is the root for the civil war.

We should have gotten a scene of aegon being born and the reactions to it.

[spacerockfloater]

I’m going to preface this post by saying I don’t give a flying fuck about the hate I’m going to receive for the opinion I will be sharing and I won’t bother replying to any comments attacking me for it.

I fucking LOVE that Aemond killed Luke and I wish it wasn’t accidental. I wish Luke’s death was full on intentional, lol.

As a victim of bullying, I’ve been in situations where I have had to fend off 20+ kids as a kid myself. I’ve been verbally, physically, emotionally and psychologically assaulted as a child by other children, simply because I wanted, strived for and had good grades in school, actions that did not affect any of my classmates in the slightest. Therefore, I absolutely sympathise with Aemond, whose lack of dragon and later on his acquisition of one hurt no one (dragons belong to no one, you snooze you lose), yet he still got ridiculed and attacked for it. Yes, Aegon was also a bully and I hate him for it, but ultimately he grows out of it and supports his family, unlike the Strong bastards who remain bullies and assaulters. Oh, and Aemond tried to hit Jace with a rock because he attacked him first. Accusing him for standing up for himself is victim blaming. People who defend the Strong boys are bullies and that’s final.

No, I don’t give a rat’s ass that his attackers were children. Aemond was a child, too, and they ganked him 4v1. It’s crazy how some of y’all support physically attacking someone because you don’t agree with them. It was satisfying to see him kick their teeth in. Aemond and Luke are only 2 years apart, even if the actors’ appearances suggest otherwise. Your age does not excuse you being a fucking piece of shit. Children and teenagers appear on the news daily as rapists, killers, assaulters and all kind of criminals. That’s the reason juvie exists. Children should face the consequences of their actions.

“Are you excusing child murder?” if it is by the hand of the child they unapologetically disabled, fuck yeah. Besides, at the end of the day, Aemond dies, too, so you could say justice is served.

Still, I would have given the Strong boy the benefit of the doubt if it weren’t for this scene:

Lucerys is laughing at Aemond.

He is looking him in the eye and he is laughing at him. It’s been 6 fucking years. Lucerys is 17 (confirmed by the writers) and he feels no remorse for what he did. He was not punished for his action, so he has learned nothing.

He feels safe to mock Aemond, in the comfort and safety of his grandfather’s house, where his guard and stepdad can stop Aemond, whom he cannot beat on his own, from bashing his head against the wall. He feels safe to attack Aemond when he calls him Strong, knowing that other people will finish the fight he started but can’t win.

But what happens when no one is around to protect him from the consequences of his own actions? He shits himself. His face falls, he stumbles backwards and does not object to Aemond calling him Strong.

Not laughing now, huh, you little shit stain?

[ride-thedragon]

I still wish to this day that they had killed Laenor because not only is Seasmoke bonded to Addam somehow (the writers since season one have had this strange idea that dragons bond to many riders at once and that riders bond to more than one dragon) but he left Joffery and Luke.

He left his weeks old son named after his dead lover.

After he lost his sister and her child, who he publicly grieved for.

After he stated he would do his duty and prepare his children for the throne.

After finally being near his nieces, his dead sister's children, who he'd never really been able to be close with.

After knowing they had lost Ser Harwin.

I hate everyone who contributed to this decision.

Laenor au must commence. We can't live like this.

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

Is there anything support the populat interpretation that old valriya and valryians in general are more feminist, and progressive than the rest in Asoiaf?

Anon, thank you! I've been wanting to address this for awhile, so I'm going to actually answer this really fully, with as many receipts as I can provide (this ended up being more of an essay than I intended, but hopefully it helps)

I think there's in fact plenty of evidence to suggest that Valyria and the Valyrians in general were anything but progressive. Valyria was an expansive empire with a robust slave trade that practiced incest based on the idea of blood supremacy/blood purity. All of these things are absolutely antithetical to progressivism. There is no way any empire practicing slavery can ever be called progressive. Now, the Targaryens of Dragonstone have since given up the practice of slavery, but they certainly still believe in the supremacy of Valyrian blood.

And I'll see the argument, well what's wrong with believing your blood is special if your blood really is special and magic? Which is just-- if anyone catches themselves thinking this, and you sincerely believe that GRRM intended to create a magically superior master race of hot blondes who deserve to rule over all other backwards races by virtue of their superior breeding which is reinforced through brother-sister incest, and you've convinced yourself this represents progressive values, then you might want to step away from the computer for a bit and do a bit of self reflection.

And remember-- what is special about this special blood? It gives the bearers the ability to wield sentient weapons of mass destruction. It's also likely, according to the most popular theories, the result of blood magic involving human sacrifice. So there is a terrible price to pay for this so-called supremacy. Would any of us line up to be sacrificed to the Fourteen Flames so that the Valyrians can have nukes?

And if you are tempted by the idea that a woman who rides a dragon must inherently have some sort of power-- that is true. A woman who rides a dragon is more powerful than a woman who does not ride a dragon, and in some cases, more powerful than a man who does not ride a dragon, but that does not make her more powerful than a man who also rides a dragon. Dragonriding remained a carefully guarded privilege, and Targaryen women who might otherwise become dragonriders were routinely denied the privilege (despite the oft repeated "you cannot steal a dragon," when Saera Targaryen attempted to claim a dragon from the dragonpit, she was thrown into a cell for the attempted "theft,"words used by Jaehaerys). The dragonkeepers were established explicitly to keep anyone, even those of Targaryen blood, from taking them without permission. Any "liberation" that she has achieved is an illusion. What she has gained is the ability to enact violence upon others who are less privileged, and this ability does not save her from being the victim of gender based violence herself.

Politically speaking, it is also true that Valyria was a "freehold," in that they did not have a hereditary monarchy, but instead had a political structure akin to Ancient Athens (which was itself democratic, but not at all progressive or feminist). Landholding citizens could vote on laws and on temporary leaders, Archons. Were any of the lords freeholder women? We don't know. If we take Volantis as an example, the free city that seems to consider itself the successor to Valyria, the party of merchants, the elephants, had several female leaders three hundred years ago, but the party of the aristocracy, the tigers, the party made up of Valyrian Old Blood nobility, has never had a female leader. Lys, the other free city, is known for it's pleasure houses, which mainly employ women kidnapped into sexual slavery (as well as some young men). It is ruled by a group of magisters, who are chosen from among the wealthiest and noblest men in the city, not women. There does not seem to be a tradition of female leadership among Valyrians, and that's reflected by Aegon I himself, who becomes king, rather than his older sister-wife, Visenya. And although there have been girls named heir, temporarily, among the pre-Dance Targaryens, none were named heir above a trueborn brother aside from Rhaenyra, a choice that sparked a civil war. In this sense, the Targaryens are no different from the rest of Westeros.

As for feminism or sexual liberation, there's just no evidence to support it. We know that polygamy was not common, but it was also not entirely unheard of, but incest, to keep the bloodlines "pure," was common. Incest and polygamy are certainly sexual taboos, both in the real world and in Westeros, that the Valyrians violated, but the violation of sexual taboos is not automatically sexually liberated or feminist. Polygamy, when it is exclusively practiced by men and polyandry is forbidden (and we have no examples of Valyrian women taking multiple husbands, outside of fanfic), is often abusive to young women. Incest leads to an erosion of family relationships and abusive grooming situations are inevitable. King Jaehaerys' daughters are an excellent case study, and the stories of Saera and Viserra are particularly heartbreaking. Both women were punished severely for "sexual liberation," Viserra for getting drunk and slipping into her brother Baelon's bed at age fifteen, in an attempt to avoid an unwanted marriage to an old man. She was not punished because she was sister attempting to sleep with a brother, but because she was the wrong sister. Her mother, the queen had already chosen another sister for Baelon, and believed her own teenage daughter was seducing her brother for nefarious reasons. As a sister, Viserra should have been able to look to her brother for protection, but as the product of an incestuous family, Viserra could only conceive of that protection in terms of giving herself over to him sexually.

Beyond that, sexual slavery was also common in ancient Valyria, a practice that persisted in Lys and Volantis, with women (and young men) trafficked from other conquered and raided nations. Any culture that is built on a foundation of slavery and which considers sexual slavery to be normal and permissible, is a culture of normalized rape. Not feminist, not progressive.

I think we get the picture! so where did this idea that Valyrians are more progressive come from? I think there are two reasons. One, the fandom has a bit of a tendency to imagine Valyrians and their traditions in opposition to Westerosi Sevenism, and if Sevenism is fantasy Catholicism, and the fantasy Catholics also hate the Valyrian ways, they must hate them because those annoying uptight religious freaks just hate everything fun and cool, right? They hate revealing clothing, hate pornographic tapestries, hate sex outside of marriage, hate bastards. So being on Sevenism's shit-list must be a mark of honor, a sign of progressive values? But it's such a surface level reading, and a real misunderstanding of the medieval Catholic church, and a conflating of that church with the later Puritan values that many of us in the Anglosphere associate with being "devout." For most of European history, the Catholic church was simply The Church, and the church was, ironically, where you would find the material actions which most closely align with modern progressive values. The church cared for lepers, provided educations for women, took care of orphans, and fed the poor. In GRRM's world, which is admittedly more secular than the actual medieval world, Sevenism nevertheless has basically the same function, feeding the poor instead of, you know, enslaving them.

Finally, I blame the shows. While Valyrians weren't a progressive culture, Daenerys Targaryen herself held relatively progressive individual values by a medieval metric. She is a slavery abolitionist, she elevates women within her ranks, and she takes control of her own sexuality (after breaking free from her Targaryen brother). But Daenerys wasn't raised as a Targaryen. She grew up an orphan in exile, hearing stories of her illustrious ancestors from her brother, who of the two did absorb a bit of that culture, and is not coincidentally, fucked up, abusive, and misogynistic. He feels a sexual ownership over his sister, arranges a marriage for her, and even after her marriage, feels entitled to make decisions on her behalf. It is only after breaking away from Viserys that Dany comes into her own values. Having once been a mere object without agency of her own, she determines to save others from that fate and becomes an abolitionist. But because Game of Thrones gave viewers very little exposure to Targaryens aside from Daenerys, House Targaryen, in the eyes of most show watchers, is most closely associated with Dany and her freedom-fighter values. And as for Rhaenyra in House of the Dragon, being a female heir does not make her feminist or progressive, although it is tempting to view her that way when she is juxtaposed against Aegon II. Her "sexual liberation" was a lesson given to her by her uncle Daemon, a man who had an express interest in "liberating" her so that she would sleep with him, it was not a value she was raised with. In fact, she was very nearly disinherited for it, and was forced into a marriage with a gay man as a result of said "liberation." She had no interest in changing succession laws to allow absolute primogeniture, no interest in changing laws or norms around bastardy despite having bastards; she simply viewed herself as an exception. Rhaenyra's entire justification for her claim is not the desire to uplift women, bring peace and stability to Westeros, or even to keep her brother off the throne, it is simply that she believes she deserves it because her father is the king and he told her she could have it, despite all tradition and norms, and in spite of the near certain succession crisis it will cause. Whether she is right or wrong, absolutism is not progressive.

And let me just say, none of this means that you can't enjoy the Valyrians or think that they're fun or be a fan of house Targaryen. This insistence that Targaryens are the progressive, feminist (read: morally good) house seems by connected to the need of some fans to make their favorite characters unproblematic. If the Valyrians are "bad," does that make you a bad person for enjoying them? Of course not. But let's stop the moral grandstanding about the "feminist" and "progressive" Valyrians in a series that is an analogue for medieval feudalism. Neither of those things can exist under the systems in place in Westeros, nor could they have existed in the slavery based empire of conquest that was old Valyria.

[squgs]

I've seen people responding to it being pointed out that Daemon is so obviously a worse person than Alicent or Criston by saying that "at least he isn't a hypocrite" or "at least he doesn't pretend he's better than he is." Which is perhaps accurate, but is really just saying "at least Daemon doesn't make any attempt to be a good person or voice any desire to be better."

This leads me to something I've been noticing: none of the team black characters voice or show any regret for their misdeeds while team green characters do so constantly. Daemon never apologizes or show any regret for any of the brutally evil things he does. Alicent on the other hand is constantly looking apologetic and regretful, even when she didn't do anything like in the case of Larys killing his family.

After the eye incident Alicent is extremely regretful and apologetic for her actions while Rhaenyra isn't at all. In fact Rhaenyra's response is to seek out more power through marrying Daemon so that she can more effectively hurt anyone who states an obvious truth. Her children similarly show no regret for escalating that fight, nor seem at all apologetic for having permanently disfigured Aemond.

The comparison is most striking between Criston and Daemon who have semi similar misbehavior that only Criston acknowledges in any way as bad. First in episode 5 they both smash someone's face in. Daemon's is clearly premeditated and his entire reason for being in the vale, while Criston's was planned at most ten minutes before it was carried out and was a response to an assumed attempt to blackmail him. Daemon has absolutely no shame about the murder, even going so far as to try to claim his victim's inheritance. Criston on the other hand is so ashamed that he tries to kill himself. They both also have incidents of misogynistic language. Criston calls Rhaenyra a cunt once and promptly apologizes. Daemon refers to his first wife as a 'bronze bitch' more than he uses her name and calls Alicent a whore. He does not apologize for any of those instances or show any indication that he doesn't think those are appropriate things to call a woman. Finally in episodes 8 and 9 Criston and Daemon each attack a man from behind after he insults their wife. Neither is their best moment, but again Criston is pretty clearly regretful of it, and it seems like he didn't mean to kill Beesbury and that he just forgot how fragile old people are. Daemon on the other hand clearly intended to murder Vaemond and was happy to quip about it and then chuckle when he's mentioned again.

The one sort of exception to this is Rhaenyra's toast to Alicent in episode 8. She does apologize in that scene. However, she isn't apologizing for mistreating Alicent. All she is apologizing for is not helping to take care of Viserys and not acknowledging her care taking previously, which like it definitely means something that she said that, but implicit in what she says is the idea that it's Alicent's role and duty to be taking care of him. There's kind of an implication that Rhaenyra views Alicent as having redeemed herself through serving Viserys when in reality her care taking is just another facet of Viserys's abuse, abuse that is never acknowledged or apologized for. Still I do love that scene and the way it is beautifully, pathetically, sad that Rhaenyra can only connect and forgive Alicent when she's in her subservient role and that Alicent is so desperate for connection with Rhaenyra that she will accept that barest hint of an apology even in the face of all the evidence that it's meaningless.

Now one would think that some characters regretting their misdeeds would be viewed as a sign of them being better people, but I think it actually has the opposite effect. Because the green characters are shown being regretful, their misdeeds are focused on and emphasized. In episode 5 it's possible to forget that Daemon killed his wife at the start of the episode, because it seems like he's forgotten as well. However it's impossible to forget what Criston does because his actions for the rest of the episode are all a reaction to his shame and horror about having just murdered someone. Then in the next episode when Criston has his one instance of misogyny, the entire show pauses to take note of it and wait for him to apologize (which he does!), but on the numerous occasions when Daemon is misogynistic the show breezes right past it, treating it as just a bad boy Daemon moment. Daemon's misdeeds can be enjoyed without an imediate reminder of how evil he is, letting him be a cool fun badass, while Criston's can't. You can't look at him awkwerdly and regretfully standing over Beesbury's body and say 'oh wow, such a badass male wife he really told Beesbury to keep his Wife's name out of his fucking mouth.' Though to be clear I also very much judge anyone who says that about Daemon killing Vaemond.

This is seen again in the eye incident. For most of the audience that goes into the incident not thinking that Rhaenyra is a significantly worse person than Alicent (a reasonable assumption), Alicent being extremely regretful afterwards while Rhaenyra isn't at all, is an indication that Alicent acted far worse than Rhaenyra did. A misreading that is helped by Rhaenyra's call for violence being couched in the 'sharply questioned' euphemism while Alicent's is stated outright. That is perhaps Alicent's most badass scene where she does her best to stand up to her abuser and those who allow that abuse in defense of their children, going so far as to physically fight back (though Rhaenyra perhaps wasn't the best choice of target), but the audience doesn't have any encouragement to see her badassery, instead we're to wallow in her shame at having fought back and watch her shrink back into herself with the implication that that's what she should be doing.

This pattern shows a fascinating tension between the events portrayed in the show and their framing. The show gives us two groups of people who range from very flawed to evil, but they are framed as a group of heroes and a group of villains. The greens are villains and their actions can only confirm that, while the blacks are heroes and their actions no matter how violent can only provide more evidence of heroism. I don't know how much actual meaning can be made from that tension, I wouldn't even be surprised if it was entirely accidental, but it is at the very least interesting enough to note.