#fanon not canon n52 rhato

[vioislit]

get you a joyfire that is about the emotional vulnerability and the learning to open yourself up to other people even though you're scared of getting hurt and slowly realizing that they have your back and would do anything (including put themselves in uncomfortable positions) for you...

[stxleslyds]

Hi! How are you? I recently asked hood-ex something about Jason and she recommended your account as a pre-N52 Jason stan so, here I am! The question is the following:

I've been on DC/Batfam tiktok for a while, and most of the tiktokers there have Jason on a pedestal? Like, they defend him as if he were an "uwu" character. I don't know how to explain it, but it annoys the shit out of me, because they're not defending the Mass murderer-Fuck-Batman character I like (if they were, I wouldn't complain), but I feel they're defending just WFA Jason, even though a lot of content I watched it's from before the webtoon came out. Do you think it's RHATO's fault?

Hello Anon! Welcome!

Ay Anon, you are a brave soul! DC/Batfam tiktok sounds like… hell. I don’t know “uwu” Jason Todd and I already want him out.

First, I want to say that I am not a “batfam” friendly person… like, I reject the concept from all angles so when I imagine the “batfam” version of any character my brain just unplugs. But, like you, if I were in contact with it, it would also annoy me and I think I know why.

“uwu” Jason isn’t Jason, or at least not grown-up Jason Todd (and that not even mentioning Jason’s Red Hood). Now, as a Lobdell hater I have to say that not even his Jason could have been considered “uwu”, he was just gross and dumb (so, another type on no no for me).

So, I wouldn’t really blame Lobdell and RHatO completely for this new version of Jason, but I would say that it is a bit more fandom’s fault because somewhere along the way they completely convinced themselves that fanon!Jason was better that whichever version of Jason that was in comics and that turned into an absolute mess. Don’t get me wrong, fanon!Jason is cute or whatever but he isn’t OG Jason Todd or Red Hood Jason Todd.

But here is the biggest problem, from my point of view of course, fandom has convinced themselves and new people (or outsiders to comics) that Jason Todd is a “bad boy with a heart of gold” who was “manipulated” by the Lazarus Pit. Which is not true and then we have the horrendous concept of Jason actually “wanting to be Bruce’s family again”. Those are some of fandom’s most favourite concepts regarding Jason, that might have come from Lobdell’s LACK of good and intelligent writing.

Which leads me to the reason why I believe that while it was not completely Lobdell’s fault that this new Jason is here, his lack of context and patchy writing influenced these, less than amusing takes. Some of those takes used to be headcanons but along fandom’s need to “make things better” came DC’s stupid mentality of making each character as bland as Batman or just a washed down version of him.

So, in reality, the one to blame is DC. DC saw fandom’s version of Jason and the mess that they let Lobdell come up with and instead of doing something to salvage the unique character that we once had they just… went with the mediocre flow.

They did things like recycling ideas (Joker, Batman, Joker, Batman), incredibly weird relationships with characters that only led to mischaracterisations, some very disturbing attempts at romance (without a real beginning or build up most times) and familial relationships.

That Jason I just talked about is the one I like to call “washed down”, “uwu” Jason is just pure webtoon nonsense and that one came directly from people and DC trying to profit from fanon “lore” that gets more and more nauseating as it goes. The levels of cliché that the webtoon has got going on are 2012 wattpad levels, it is beyond the actual “batfam” fandom here on tumblr.

Maybe tiktok has gotten to know Jason only through the webtoon or (worse) only through images from the webtoon… And that’s why that version might be put on a pedestal. Nowadays it is very simple for people to create whole ass ideas from a single image without ever reading a single piece of canon (or not canon) content, and, to be honest… Jason has been a “free for all” ever since Rebirth.

Jason Todd has no solid background ever since the UtRH and “Lost Days” era, but my dear Anon, imagine showing that Jason to fans of any other version of Jason… he would most likely be the most unappealing guy…And not because he killed people but because DC themselves have completely villainized that version of Jason Todd.

DC made it their mission to make duality and good characterization something unachievable for Jason Todd as Red Hood. In their eyes he was just a nutjob that wanted to kill people because Joker had killed him thus making him a selfish piece of shit that needed to be stopped by Batman… Which, as you might know, is not true at all but hey! Duality and anti-heroes/anti-villains are lame according to DC so… what do I know??

Anyway, Anon, sorry for this absolutely mental rant but you caught me with a need to fight the air so here I am!

Hope you have a wonderful weekend Anon! Hopefully some cute kitty and doggo content comes your way on tiktok!

[illumiru]

Ooh can u talk about ur theory where batcest fucked up fanon?

okay sorry for taking so long anon- i was very sleepy when i got this. take all of this with a grain of salt bc i joined the fandom late and i made a huge guess on what might have happened based on patterns from previous fandoms and my knowledge of fandom history. and hearsay from older fans.

BUT okay, my THEORY is that people who made b*tcest content then at the initial rise of the modern dc fandom probably watched young justice first and then go on to read a few comics here and there to discover their favorite robin. young justice was around the time new 52 became a thing so for a lot of fans at that time, that's usually their introduction to the rest of the batfam.

fandom does and fandom is wont to do though and since the batboys p much look like each other, they skewed their characterizations into easily digestible shallow tropes to make it easier to distinguish one robin from the other.

dick got saddled with the sunshine cuddle-monster (highly suspect this was influenced by young justice and n52), jason is the bad boy with the heart of gold, the draco in leather pants (possibly rhato influenced), tim is the sad uwu twink coffee super genius (red robin influenced) and damian's personality is either hellspawn or diagnosed 13 years old. (depends if they like damian or not).

the thing with the batfandom though is that a lot of them tend to be insular. so when it comes to dc content, they consume batfam content ONLY. knowing fandom, they can't consume content without shipping so they're like why not with each other? around the time, people are also a lot more likely to ship incest and don't consider adopted siblings actually related so it's seen as "not as bad."

that said, b*tcest has existed way before this period. even in batman year one: deluxe edition, there was a comic that said that some people saw batman and robin as a metaphor for homosexuality. (what the fuck)

and there were livejournal groups for batslash. that said, fandoms were very small pockets of community at the time instead of the consolidated mass it will be on tumblr. so from what i heard from older fans is that at the very least people who were making any kind of fan content have read the comics. i think i read a meta that dick's fanon self at the time tended to be a bit like his outsiders self.

anyways, there wasn't even a reliable archive besides fanfiction dot net. so if people made ooc b*tcest fic or art then, it won't have the reach it has now in influencing fellow fans. (that said, dc managed to hire a writer who ships br*dick, giving these b*tcest shippers fuel. the resulting mischaracterization of the way devin writes dick will help fuel his fanon self later on. so that's one example already of how b*tcest fucked up fanon)

so with the influx of new fans from young justice and the rise of tumblr, modern dc fandom was born and in came the b*tcest shippers with fanon characterizations based off the show and n52 comics and their own headcanons.

with the way tumblr is set up, it's easy for non-fans of the franchise to see content from your fandom so people who haven't read the comics started coming in as well because they liked the fan content they saw. comics is a very daunting medium for people to get into because of the amount of material that can conflict with each other there is. so a lot of these new fans like to consume only fanon.

with the amount of b*tcest artists and writers there was, even people who didn't ship it would see non-explicit fanon content from these creators and assume it's is accurate. and so, the fanon characterizations became slowly accepted and popular and they end up adapting these b*tcest shippers' headcanons as well.

it did not help that a lot of b*tcest shippers will make meta to make certain batfam members closer than they actually are. and people took this plus the out of context panels as word of god of how they actually act around each other.

for example of fanon things that might be influenced by b*tcest

batfam living all in the manor (they don't.)

jason and tim's closeness with another (besides that one lobdell page where jason said tim's the only one he can stand and we shouldn't even consider bc lobdell does jackshit to research, they weren't very close at all.)

jason's use of the baby bird nickname for tim (major red flag)

dick being promiscuous/a womanizer/someone who likes getting naked (he's not. there's much canon evidence of him being uncomfortable with being objectified, unsure about nudity and being extremely monogamous. it's just a mischaracterization perpetuated by devin grayson (br*dick shipper) and tim seeley (hack)

i could list more (or you guys can comment more) but i'm honestly losing steam writing this. jnfenf i think as a fandom, we're getting better at debunking fanon at least - especially since the influx of batfans has slowed down compared to its peak. plus, inc*st is being more and more widely denounced in fandom spaces at all.

anyway, those are my rambling thoughts on how b*tcest shippers influenced fanon jkfnjkenf

[dottie-wan-kenobi]

Heya! Random Roy Harper question: what do you think the dynamics of a Roy x Koriand'r relationship would be?

Full disclosure: I only really enjoy this couple when Dick is also a part of it. Joyfire can be fun sometimes too, but I feel these two being in a relationship works best when Dick is also in it THAT SAID I’m not going to make this a Dick x Roy x Kory post dskjfhkahkjdha

I think the fanon version of Roy x Kory is like... their relationship is two extroverts who are goofy and always dtf, constantly flirting and messing around, meeting up and having this casual relationship. But in canon, I would say it’s a little different. Or at least, pre-n52 canon.

Roy does flirt A LOT. Like I went looking for panels with these two and I found a few of them where he flirts with her and she ignores him or shuts him down, sometimes by playing back with him. Honestly Roy comes off like a creep in some, especially the older ones, but for the sake of this I’m gonna chalk that up to the time period and move on kdshfjsh

(New Teen Titans #29)

(New Titans #63)

This isn’t a flirty moment really but it did make me laugh so I’m including it here!! (Outsiders)

So I think this kind of back and forth is a part of their relationship, where they can tease each other and mess around and have fun. I don’t think that’s their default setting, though. They’re definitely capable of having serious moments, and tbh I found more of those than ones that are flirty/funny.

This is a moment of them arguing, and I think it shows a few things: namely that that back and forth is not limited to lighter situations, and also that they’re equals! There’s no sense here that one has more power over the other. ALSO peep that height difference (Outsiders v3 #21)

Then there are these two moments from New Titans v1 #63 (not consecutive):

Kory: It’s dead! I couldn’t take the risk. I had to kill it.Roy: Don’t worry about it. It’s all right. Kory: I’m not worried. I’m just explaining.Roy: You don’t have to. Not to me.

Kory has to kill an alien and Roy comforts her about it twice. Unlike Dick and Donna, who are both very important to Roy and Kory, these two don’t think killing is never an option. It’s something they can bond over, but it’s also obvious that they both take this seriously. In general, both Kory and Roy are far more serious than I think fanon gives them credit for, but that’s a different post dskjfhkas

On a lighter note, Kory loves Lian and Roy obviously trusts her with his daughter

(Action Comics #634)

(Convergence: Titans #2)

I was gonna add more but I can’t find anything but RHaTO panels kshdfjadskjfhak 

To summarize:- They flirt and act playful, teasing each other and joking around- They aren’t afraid to butt heads and don’t really have a power imbalance where one person has more power in the relationship (compare to with Jason, where he seems to be the In Charge one and Kory & Roy are equal but under him)- Something they connect with each other over is how they’re willing to kill where their friends are not- Roy can and will comfort Kory- Kory loves Lian!!!- two words: HEIGHT. DIFFERENCE.

[ledszeppelin]

dinahbabs, jayroy, and donnakory

dinahbabs:  talented, brilliant, incredible, amazing, show-stopping, spectacular, never the same, totally unique. my ladies, my mothers. i love them. they’re canon and in love. also i love angst and i wrote a fic once where babs had an unrequited crush on dinah. pining babs!! give me the good lesbian shit

donnakory: cute cute cute! honestly! so pure! the only valid ship in this world they deserve better !! they’re in love dc u cowards they are done with men let them date eachother they deserve thaaaaaaaaat.

jayroy: oh GOD. listen. i love jayroy. i don’t like n52 or rhato or lobdell but i love jayroy. it’s honestly such a good concept?? it totally makes sense to me but canon jayroy??? no thank u. also jtodd stans totally ruined it for me. they took roy’s character and make him dumber just to make jason look better and i’m not having it. i started writing a fic where jason comes back from the dead and roy starts helping him bc he doesn’t want jay to become like him (like to use drugs or something) and they were partners and slowly fall in love !! that’s the good jayroy content not rhato or other dumb shit!! fanon jayroy not canon jayroy!! also stay away from roy jtodd stans !! away!

Send me a ship and I’ll give you my (brutally) honest opinion on it